DeWALT's New High Torque Impact Driver.. Isn't?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
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Can the new DeWALT XR DCF860 take on or even beat the likes of Milkwaukee Gen 4 2954, Flex Quick Eject, Makita XGT and Ridigd? Today we sort of find out, and are left with more questions than answers.
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We shot this tool in SlowMo and think we figured this all out: th-cam.com/video/tPP6exJyILA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=SdHvFby0HyAcx5TK
i feel like there is an engineer at dewalt that watches your videos and is personally offended whenever a dewalt loses on anything
Hey I noticed the new dewalt collet was jumping all over the place at 14:00. Was it broken again or still broken from the other test. Maybe the manufactures have reached the limit for strength.
@@Dirtyharry70585 Eventually after a couple goes at taking bits out, we left the spring, a few c-lips, washer out to save time disassembling and assembling again from broken bits.
I wonder if they limited the forward torque to make your drivers last longer. But you have the extra beans to remove stuff quicker.
Another great video, thanks! That thing sure seems wonky...seems like there's something wrong. Hopefully that means something they can fix? Either way though, glad you tossed in the speed test...I feel like that's this one's real calling card.
That DeWalt sounds like a very pissed off bee
It is yellow so it ticks the box
Sounded kinda like a Hover Bee with the giant XR battery torque test lol
(said "bee" is actually a fly in disguise)
Like all impacts ?
I appreciate the myriad technical aspect(s) of this detailed review. That said, as a general contractor, I say the last [seemingly] unofficial test was the most important because most users are simply trying to drive screws & the DeWalt DCF860 blew away the competition, in that regard.
Impressive, but IMO, more torque isn't what we need from 1/4" impact drivers. It's more like a self-destruct mode.
It has three torque settings ranging from a max of ~200ft/lbs on the highest setting to up-to ~100ft/lbs on the lowest setting. Seems pretty reasonable for an impact driver to me.
@@DustinHayreyeah, except that the 1/4” hex shanks all break in short order at these power levels, making the max torque more of a one time only brag than anything useful.
@@alexmills1329 only ever had one bit break on me and IIRC it was a cheap old Ryobi, and I abuse the hell out of my Hilti and Milwaukee impact drivers. Buy quality bits and it'll rarely happen.
I agree they hit plenty hard. Smaller and lighter is the game now.
Couldn't agree with LonersGuide more. I complained about how pointless this chart and ranking system was when they introduced it. Finesse, control, and user fatigue are all much more important than raw power when it comes to an impact driver. They might as well be ranking nail guns by how well they change lug nuts.
Overdriving in drywall, plywood, or dimensional lumber produces a similar result: broken fibers and a weaker connection that will fail, squeak, and/or loosen in a shorter timespan.
I always reach for my M12 impact before my LXT even though the XDT16 is much more powerful than the 12V tool. And it's not even a Surge, just a Gen 2.
I wonder if they dialed down the fwd torque to try and avoid breaking so many adapters in normal use (driving stuff) and dialed up the reverse torque to make sure people can get things un-stuck when they really need to. It looks (based on fwd spd. and reverse torque) like it will be a very “usable” tool, even if the specs seem a little unorthodox.
Makes sense as the breaker bar of tools. I would normally be using a torque wrench to drive bolts. Something about this model just seems janky though.
I’d prefer full control over power. After all that’s what the “torque sensing” mode is for on my 3/8 impact driver.
Why would anyone use a bit driver for breakaway? It’s a bit driver for rather itty bitty stuff lol
I just recently found the DCF887 on display at my local Lowe’s. They sold it to me for $30 as a discontinued model. (The date on it shows it is from 2021)!
Got a Bosch 1/2 inch Cordless Drill Set with two batteries for a similar price. Deals are still out there. Well done.
That's a heck of a Deal! I wouldn't have passed that up either!
good find. mine just kicked the bucket after 8 years, tens of thousands of miles, and being dropped off more 10+ foot ladders than I can count.
Sweet deal! Good job
The 887 is still a solid tool to be honest :)
Just stumbled upon your channel. I'm on my 3rd video, can't stop watching. I'm supposed to be getting stuff done around the house today lol. Awesome job on these videos everything is top shelf. Thanks for sharing these.
Dude you gotta lot of catching up on.
1 Years later here... they only get better.
The GDT02 is not a Gen 2 of the GDT01, it's a budget option to the GDT01. You have less max torque, less IPM, fewer modes and worst of all you lose the glow in the dark ring around the chuck!
Should have used the latest edition of the Makita Encoder Ring for this one, sorry :P Should have known the gdt02 would of course not be the next gdt01
Ya, wrong Makita for this test.
@@midniteoyl8913 We tested the last XGT as well. There's 4 Makita's on this impact driver ranking, more than any other brand. We simply tested the latest model from each brand on screen.
@@TorqueTestChannel I know, just that for this particular test, the 02 might not have been the one to showcase with its more limiting electronics/programing.
edit: Though I find the whole XGT line to be a little disappointing.
@@midniteoyl8913xgt line is awesome, just the impacts don't have xtreme power (and they don't need it tbh)
I still never use speed 3 on my old dewalt impact driver for impacting any screw shy of a timberlock. Having a secondary use of it being a nice impact wrench for the garage is sick though with that removal torque
I use speed 3 on my 887 for only torx screws (deck screws) … it’s worth it only for anything that’s not a Philips head screw 🤣
But 60% of the time, I have it on speed 1. 39% of the time it’s on speed 2 😇
Very interesting results. I can't wait for the follow up to see if you solve the mystery!
I wish the industry would reach a consensus on going up in size from 1/4 hex shank bits. It'd be nice not to need a bunch of extra bits for when you break them all the time. These tools have been more than 1/4 shank bits want torque wise for a long time now.
Most brands have a smallish 3/8in impact wrench and you can get socket versions of practically everything that you could gind on a hex shank. Just use those on the tougher fasteners instead of the 1/4in hex shanks.
Edit: Also what the heck is your usage with these? I've used hex shank to 1/2in adapters to take off lug nuts and other automotive bits and never broken anything.
I agree with both of you! It does seem like the manufacturers have been making tools with power/torque that outpaces the 1/4" shank spec for quite some time, and yes, if you need that much torque you should probably be using an impact wrench! In my case, my nice, smooth M12 surge doesn't have enough torque to remove lug nuts (which it isn't intended to do in the first place) so I just picked up a stubby impact and I'm a happy camper!
@@NiSE_Rafter I'm aware of the 3/8 in square drive impacts. I do own one, but the sockets are pretty thick. I'm usually doing large wooden construction with big lags and 6x6s. If you've never broken a bit, you're the only person I've ever heard of that hasn't.
I wouldn't want the bulk of a larger drive size, for screws and such you shouldn't be breaking 1/4" hex...a lot of people using these with adapters as impact wrenches should get an impact wrench :D
@@SomeGuysGarage That's what I'm thinking too. I have both on hand for a reason.
Can't wait to see the impact bit adapter comparison video you're working on. I want to know if I can expect my Lexivon stuff to last a while, and what I should replace them with when they do fail.
Thank you for all the testing!
After work, on a Friday afternoon, I await these videos. Awesome stuff.
Reliability of all the brands is really interesting to me like the fact you've gone through so many Milwaukee gen 4 impacts. Any interest in doing a full review of reliability of the brands for different categories? Thanks!
Love you guys. I look forward to these videos all week!
When TTC drops, everything stops.
Yup.
Indeed it does!
And I suspect for some, it's their _bank account_ that stops having money in it... 🤣
Hi TTC. Thanks once again for a great video comparison. I would like to suggest including a DCF887 on a second video about the DCF860 for a better understanding of the evolution of Dewalt's impact drivers old versus new generations. Greetings from Brazil.
This will make a great compact Impact Wrench for light jobs can't wait for mine to come in
thanks was excited to see your video on this one :)
A video on the removal process of a broken bit in this impact driver vs others might be interesting. Great video, as always, thanks!
Thank you for your content. This channel is number one in this genre. I am not uncertain.
Seems like they may be aiming at a "one tool to rule" for Joe Driveway...great for cracking lugs/bolts, but mellower for screws and drilling without having to buy 2-5 different tools.
I like the new impact speed test you guys did! Cool little extra. That DeWalt seems good but I’m wondering why it does so good in reverse vs forward.
This makes perfect sense. Most people need more force to remove fasteners due to corrosion and fasteners sticking, etc. You rarely need a ton to drive them in, in fact you can over drive fasteners causing splits, breaks, etc. This is the ideal combination and is one reason I'd prefer a dewalt for actually driving fasteners in but not necessarily for removal. Now this does both, I like it.
I have an 850 that I'd like to use for woodworking. But I'm going to get the 860 when it comes out for work. I do industrial maintenance. And a 1/4 impact is an extremely versatile tool, which for me, I need more torque in reverse than foward. So this feels like it was custom built for me.
Wondering if, and when, the US model is released it will give equal torque from forward and reverse. The collet is a nightmare.
I think in actual use driving fasteners the DCF860 is going to shine. I have an old, brushed DeWalt 20V XR 1/4" impact driver and the DCF860 is the first to come along that I think is worth upgrading to. Speed really helps get construction screws going, bet this will be a great upgrade for installing cabinets.
Just got mine , can’t wait to try tomorrow 😁
What Tool Store did you get it from just order mine it's a PREORDER
still using my DCF895 dated from 2014 every day at work, love the chuck over the pull style
I upgraded the motor and electronics from an 887 to get the higher speeds
Dewalt breakaway torque sounds to me like they’ve done a crossover from impact wrench as their breakaway torque is greater than forward too
yeah, it looks like the DCF921 impact wrench with a different collet
@@engineer_alvand a different handle, the 921/2/3 has it angled back to keep your hand out of whatever you’re working on.
I wonder if it has less power in forward to save blowing out pz2 bits when driving screws. I have the 850, and if you dont use wera or decent pz2 bits you are constantly going through bits. So maybe its a design choice for the better.
Personally i dont need alot of torque in my driver and would prefer speed. Which seems to be shown with the threaded bar and nut test. (Which should be used in future on tests)
Great video as always guys.
Disappointed in Makita not getting 100% of claimed. Also very interesting that the DeWalt sound so different in reverse.
It doesn't like the dyno for some reason, but it works well in real life tasks, no worries :)
@@riba2233 Good to hear :)
When it comes to impact drivers, finesse is a factor, not necessarily raw power. I wouldn't sell my older Makita drivers for what i paid for them. Good feedback, feel and precision.
It's also the budget entry level XGT, that so many Americans keep testing as "The top current model", which it isn't and never was, and was never meant to be. It is the weakest XGT driver.
@@ToolsAndStuffOFFICIAL higher number = better ;)
Would be really interested in seeing reciprocating saw tests
Super interesting! Thanks!
Nice video. Can you do the ridgid with an 8ah battery?
I enjoy the Bosch 12v compact line. Too much torque could be an issue in many applications as assembling cabinets as minor mechanical work on cars. Using a cheaper air compressed gun, for the high torque occasions.
I think i prefer the (much?) smaller dcf850 over the dcf860. When are you going to need that much power in a impactdriver?
Idk I’m still rocking 887 if it’s ain’t broke don’t fix it
I have an 850 that I'd like to use for woodworking. But I'm going to get the 860 when it comes out for work. I do industrial maintenance. And a 1/4 impact is an extremely versatile tool, which for me, I need more torque in reverse than foward. So this feels like it was custom built for me.
@@BigZ971 why not use a impact wrench when you need more power?
@MrSjirafje I have an impact wrench. Specifically the DCF921. However, the 1/4 shank is very convenient when working at elevations since the kits are so compact. And I don't always need 450 ft/lbs of breakaway torque.
But going from 120 to 200 is a nice step up if I need it for stubborn guards and such.
Driving long timberloc screws
Tools & Stuff reviewed the Dewalt recently and it kicked Milwaukee’s butt on practical driving tests. I wonder what gives.
Except where it needed lots of torque and then it failed as it didn't have the rated torque in forwards (as now shown here)
There are a few reasons for that. One is that the Dewalt has a much higher RPM and can drive screws in very quick providing they don't need a lot of torque, which is what my tests showed. But my tests also showed that when higher torque was required the Milwaukee clawed it's way back.
Another reason is that the test TTC is doing here, whilst interesting, don't often relate to real world experience. People aren't maxing out the torque on these things every time they use them. The tests in this video only count in extreme circumstances that the drivers weren't made for and that most people don't use them for. They are for driving screws into wood which requires far less torque than metal on metal. That's why the Dewalt looks better in my video than this video, because when it comes to speed the DeWalt is VERY good, but when it comes to torque their numbers seem a bit off.
Batteries also test different in real world usage to that shown on the dyno tests as a battery is rarely (if ever) used to it's full capacity on an impact driver.
I wonder if it's just because in forward driving screws/lags you just don't need that much torque, they might have had testing that showed it was harder to control or keep from stripping things or something so they toned it down in forward?
I've been waiting for one to be available up here so that I can do some testing too.
I do mostly Automotive work and I need an impact driver to remove bolts not necessarily put them on extra tight
Gonna strip out all the Phillips head screw 🤣🤣🤣
Who is still using those?lol
@@charlesfinnegan7930 I bet 75% of the screw used are still Phillip head
@@sofjanmustopoh7232Not by professionals, all Torx!
sheetrock guys beg to differ
@@dabj9546See more Allen than torx
I’d also look into the reliability of the test bench for such a relatively low output tool. When you apply torque to a (mostly) static load, it can manifest changes in the harmonics of the tool’s drive configuration, especially considering how small the drivetrain arrangement is. Just food for thought as it could be artificially fudging the numbers. There’s a distinct possibility the tool itself could be absorbing some of its own energy prior to transfer it to the test rig. I’d be curious to see how the numbers would be affected on a test bench that provided a more linear resistance as the load increased. I suspect impact drivers have a hard time tolerating the heavy hydraulic/mechanical load they have to overcome once any appreciable torque is applied.
What is the best kind of grease to use when servicing impact drivers/wrenches or any power tools in general?
It seems to me the latest gen DeWalt's with the soft touch controls all do something funky, whether or not this is a good thing I am not sure but does make for interesting viewing! Thanks as always TTC! On a side note it looks like it is going to get even wilder when the long rumoured DCF870 Hydraulic 1/4" driver with 0-5000 IPM breaks cover.
i got the dcf850 both at home and at work, it's a very good tool for the daily tasks
The behavior of the dewalt with the powerstack 5ah seems to mimic what i experience when trying to use the powerstack 5 on other branded tools with an adapter. Seems like there is a comms or voltage detect issue? Any chance you can try with a 1.7 powerstack? All in all the 860 seems to be a step in the right direction assuming dewalt irons out the kinks.
I always assumed the reason all these guys made around the same power was the 1/4" impact adapter. The DCF887 would already bend and break those guys pretty easily.
I could see that, and that's maybe why this DeWalt had a different hammer feel/sound... 🤔
I know I commented on the last video but I was wondering which brand you’d consider to be the best hammer drill, impact driver, impact wrench trio would be considering battery systems as well. I’m still thinking about the Milwaukee top-dog M18 tools and battery’s
Interesting results for sure! I really wonder what the use case is for having a max torque, in reverse, 1/4" impact driver.
Have you guys seen panasonic exena? Ive been wanting to buy one with the offset and RA adapters. I know its not supposed to hit hard, but they always seem to have features before the rest. Selftap mode on impacts and a tapping mode on drills (auto fwd/rev by trigger pulls)
Have you tested any of the Makita "hybrid" four function drivers? Do they even make those any more?
Have you guys tried the PBLID02 from Ryobi? An impact shootout could be cool
I think we need to retry this test when the US version comes out cause of the collate
I think my old lil impact is plenty powerful, maybe just a tad bit too powerful even on the little stuff. Love to see improvements, having accurate settings is nice.
Heeey, you know how it's recommended to lube up your SDS bits right.
Do you think lubricating your impact bits have any graphable effect?
its nice to get a review of the modern ridgid impact driver, often gets left out. unfortunately thats not the most modern version. 862311b was superceded by 862312b. the difference is only 2300 vs 2400 in/lbs and as such is not a big deal here, but it would always be ideal to compare w/ the most modern counterparts from each brand. or at least a disclaimer when introducing the tool that it is not the most modern iteration, especially when the newer version is already a year old
after looking at the specs for both, the newer version has increased the rpm from 2900 to 3400 and the IPM from 4200 to 4300. This likely would have helped in in your newest impact driver test with the long threaded rod.
Imo this makes the performance in this test even more impressive, beating the milwaukee without destroying itself in the process like the milwaukee does. and the modern one is likely even better perhaps moving it closer to the flex than the milwaukee in this test as the rpm increased by over 17%
I would like to see how the impact drivers compare to each other when driving screws into wood or something more uniform like MDF. That's what they are usually used for.
I think it would be interesting for you to include a 3/8 impact with a 1/4 inch hex adapter like the m12 stubby in videos like these. I have been thinking about getting an m12 impact wrench with for work (electrical) that way I can have an impact driver and an impact wrench
Do you have any tests of the oil filled hammer designs that are supposed to be quiet? Surge I think they are called. I have looked but can't find any.
How do you guys animate those dyno curves? Do you have to hand animate them? I've always wondered
I have the Flex and I use it every day in a forklift shop and it is great. I don’t have to get the impact out as much as I used to.
And PLEASE test all the 7/16 hex drive lineman impact wrenches.
Which current 20v Dewalt battery are we recommending nowadays?
I have a newish 840 and yet, I still use my outdated 815 most times. That brushed motor is just so smooth and the hits are soft. Not a power house but I have less bit damage with screws using it and it doesn't like to crack interior plastics. If only they made a brushless DCF815, I'd be ecstatic 😊
haven't you tried the DCF801 Xtreme impact driver? It's a Brushless 815 in a more compact body and higher torque/RPMs
Would it be possible to still, at least some times, try to include dyno runs with the new PDNation batteries? Watching your videos makes me want to shop multiple brands as performances fluctuate between product categories.
Yet another banger of a video
I'm sure it matters more when your using these for your job, but i LIKE my impact drivers weak and unable to snap a 1\4" hex shaft. If i need more than whatever my old, cheapest option makita has to offer, i pick up the impact wrench.
I suppose it doesn't really matter much in the end though, as my brother picks up all my bits and adapters then breaks them in his milwaukee.
Seems like a great setup. Over-torquing things sucks, either for damaging them in the moment, or having them stuck later. But having lots of power/torque to get things broken loose is Great. I dig it.
I'm team Red, but I'd take reverse torque any day. Nice job DeWalt.
Seems more like you're getting screwed out of power in forward rather then you're getting "extra" power in reverse. Would really prefer to have both.
Why reverse torque on a tool built to drive screws in?
@@charlesfinnegan7930 Because most impacts are used to break rusted or over torqued fasteners free. If you're just driving "screws", you don't need much torque at all. Bigger fasteners are best zipped on with a power tool then finished with a torque wrench. Unless you're building a bridge, you don't need that much torque to tighten.
@@RyTrapp0 I would never use any impact tool to fully tighten a fastener at full power of the tool. Even on my car's lug nuts I zip them in at low power and finish with a torque wrench, but reverse torque is great for old rusted lug nuts.
@@ohger1 So they should just artificially limit the forward torque from max on every impact made? Just because "full power", whatever full power ends up being for a given impact, is always "too much"? Really don't understand this argument.
I sent you the R862311 Ridgid impact driver a while back, which I converted to a 1/2" impact wrench to be tested.
I forget how it did on the dyno, but it would be interesting to see the power loss of the 1/4 hex adapter.
I'm happy with my 845. It does the job just fine.
Wish you would have ran a 6 amp hour battery on the Ridgid to make it more comparable to the others. There is a difference between that and the 4 amp. Then there is a difference between the 8amp and the 6. Also when the new Ridgid pouch cell comes out could you please rerun these tests?
Keep doing what your doing !
I was starting to worry about my favorite brand early in the video. But in the end that angry yellow bee is actually quite suited for what someone like us do with it. For instance I was thrown a water pump change at 45 minutes before todays shut down time. That reverse is gonna pop bolts loose quick, fast, and in a hurry! Even 20+ year old 10mm( 15mm head) bolts stuck in aluminum and steel and corroded as always. But when going back together you aren't hopefully snapping bolts turning that 45 minute job into a nightmare. My XR will snap them if I keep hammering. But using it everyday you know where tight is. Hopefully I can pick one up soon
I'm guessing the reason why the gap between Howard and reverse is so big I'd because if you use the tool in forward you'll be driving screws and it'll give you some more control, but in reverse you want to remove whatever is there. Tailor made for both mechanics and carpenters.
Great stuff!
It’s an awesome impact. Maybe someday I’ll buy one.
Seems like a clear design for breaking loose bolts, driving in a new bolt, then finishing with a torque wrench.
Love my 850 3/8 modded impact, i wonder if this one could be modified the same way?
I would be curious to see the driving speeds of things like the Metabo HPT WH18DCQ4, seeing as they replaced the older model's 4,000 IPM rating with a 4,000 BPM rating on the newer model. Curious to know if that's really a difference, or if Hitachi is pulling the "UWO" card. I've been using the older model "WH18DBDL2Q4" daily in a mechanic's class and it tackles pretty much everything reasonable that we have. I've also used it in HVAC work and it drives self tapping screws ridiculously quick.
Another thing that I would like to see is using 1-2 Ah batteries on these tools in torque tests. I prefer to run smaller batteries due to weight, considering they charge fairly quick, and I'm curious to know just how big of a difference it makes.
So, if the difference between forward and reverse torque is the software, then can you switch the motor leads to reverse the motor direction and get the high torque on forward?
(I'd imagine the wiring for the hall sensors need to be swapped as well)
Great video! It would be interesting to see how the higher-priced brands like Fein, Hilti, and Festool stack up against the competition in one ultra-luxury bougie video.
Did you try a magnet to get the broken bit out?
The REAL second gen Makita XGT is the TD002G only available in japan.
I've had it for 2 years now and it's by at least 100 miles the smoothest impact I've ever tried.
(I'm a carpenter and I've tried LOADS of impact drivers)
yep, can confirm :)
run Makita circular saw and grinder and Dewalt impact drivers and sawzall but I've been eyeing Milwaukee's gen 4 impact driver but maybe I've been sleepin on Flex! They got a killer battery, charger and driver combo for $149
Suggestion for the spreadsheet... It's an amazing tool helping tons of people, but could we also get perhaps a "Brand Specific" tab, where we can see all of Dewalts or Milwaukee's or Rigids tested tools in one chart, with their power ratings etc.
For those who are brand loyal, knowing which item to purchase based on its stats and power would make sorting through the charts much easier! :)
drill a hole between the stuck bit and collet... then you can make something to hook on to the back of the broken bits to get them out.
All way to hard to drill
I mean it is cool but what brand is the best for everything like mechanics
Curious about the 18 LTX 200 BL of metabo (german). Although their impact wrench SSW 18 LTX 300 BL was not really impressive for the price their rating is usually spot on.
Look at the dewalt collet as it drives the locking nut on. It vibrates so much it’s releasing the auto lock
We loosened it for easy of disassembly in the end
How many impact adapters do you guys go through if you impact for a maximum of 3 seconds? I have an older air impact driver and i use if for dissembly for bikes and it breaks them like every 100 uses. My makita 18v lxt has never broken one.
I actually appreciate makitas its designed to drive screws approach and backing off before it starts twisting and braking everything. For bigger jobs get an impact wrench
You need to put a better battery on that Ridgid one of the ones with the 21700 cells
Have you ever tested the Makita XGT that are made in Japan?
Surprised. Dewalt tools are usually all about power especially in forward. Not surprised about Makitas power. Still like Makitas feel and refinement.
At this power level, just pick any that are comfortable for you. The pure numbers don't matter that much in the field, only in these awesome videos.
Makita is falling behind big time, dewalt is starting to have better ergonomics
@@roland985 Agreed.
@@roland985 I agree especially with this segment of tools. The information garnered from the tests is awesome 👍
@@TorqueTestChannel Always appreciate your opinions on the tools as well the data. Keep up the good work!
Been having the 887 for about 3 years heck of a tool never missed a beat but this 860 really is something I might have to make an excuse for
I will stick with tried, true, and trusted Makita all day long.
Are the curves based on a daq? If so why the gauge and egg timer?
So nice to have someone independent holding them to account 😁