I think if MJ had done Rock Your Body it would be "Generic" for him, but because JT did it, suddenly it was a marketable hit? Does that make sense? Like Michael would have KILLEDD it, and it would sound amazing... but that's to be expected of him? Michael has always been about innovation, especially in his last 15 years. He probably heard it and thought, why ya'll trying to sound like me 20 years ago?
This proves MJ deserves more production credits on his own catalogue because he drives his already legendary producers even beyond their initial leanings. Not to mention he originated a good number of hits on his own like “Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough”, “Billie Jean”, “Tabloid Junkie”, “Who Is It?”, “Centipede”, “Dangerous”, “Another Part of Me”, “Jam” ….
You’re forgetting that these ‘songs’ were just beats when MJ heard them. They weren’t ‘rock your body’ yet. You can literally see footage of pharrell and jt writing rock your body in the studio together and coming up with the melodies and words.
There’s more to the story. Later apparently Michael ends up meeting with pharrell again, and saying “you know those songs should’ve been mine”, either joking or half joking. Hindsight hit him. Those records would have sounded incredible with those two musical minds.
@@kaujuanrichey7100 pharrell has a gift for melody and an innovative sound. I would suggest anyone look at his productions and still disagree. My point was who knows what the finished products with those two would’ve sounded like.
@@VeraciousMind you also said “hindsight hit him” insinuating that Micheal missed an opportunity to work with Pharrell. I’m simply here to tell you that Pharrell will need to have needed to work with Micheal more than Mike would need Pharrell. Pharrell did not produce a big enough or distinct enough sound for Micheal Jackson. There are levels.
Even if Mike accepted Pharrell’s beats…knowing how Mike works he would’ve forced Pharrell to add more futuristic sounds to those beats. So everything worked out as it should.
Exactly. If anyone thinks Michael was letting Chad and Pharrell use those stock Korg sounds they used on every other song they were doing at that point, they're lying to themselves.
Mannn, I would've loved to see MJ operate in today's world with the technology available now. I'd love to hear his thoughts and opinions on what music sounds like now. RIP MJ! Absolute King!
Invincible would’ve been better with some of the JT Neptunes songs + those pure R&B cuts like break of dawn, heaven can wait & butterflies imo. But, I see where MJ was coming from. Superthug, futuristic Neptunes type beats like Ray J’s Wait a Minute are probably what he wanted from P.
The bridge section of both you don't have to call & remember the time are super similar... There are probably no dots to connect here, but maybe The Neptunes made it being inspired by or paying homage to Mike and their founder Teddy Riley.
I’ve spent years being pissed that Mike didn’t go the Neptunes route.. BUT, in hindsight, the sound on Invincible is more timeless.. the Neptunes would have placed him squarely in the early 00s sound (along with everyone else at that time).. like, it would’ve been dope as a concept album or side project, but not to stand alone as a MICHAEL JACKSON album.. U Don’t Have to Call would’ve been smooth af though..
@@mobmeansmobmobmeansmob2125 Neptunes were out since 92/93. Pharrell himself during a 2002 interview with trevor nelson, said that 5 years prior (1997), they presented you don't have to call to MJ's team
@@mobmeansmobmobmeansmob2125 The Neptunes were producing a lot of hits songs that they preciously kept under wraps before presenting them to the artists we know that sang them… that’s why they were consistently releasing hits after hits…
Think about who Michael worked with production wise (on bulk production)…. Quincy, Teddy, Darkchild. MJ knew what he wanted, he didn’t fumble anything.
That’s where Pharrell went wrong. He sent Michael Jackson stuff that sounds like obvious, typical MJ stuff. When he shoulda sent him the stuff we was cooking for rappers, where the sounds were more along the line of what he was looking for at the time. And I bet Michael woulda SLID on “Superthug”.
Pharrell as good as the Neptunes were they were notorious for using stock sounds. We loved them because of it and they were the example of you don’t need to invent the wheel to make good music and hit records. I completely understand why Mike passed
Prince did it himself and his problem with Mike was that he needs producers to do all that for him. Prince had a lot of quantity and quality tho. Michael had quality.
This was a colossal misstep from Michael at the time. You rock my world was the definition of generic. That song sounded like it came out 10 years before it was released and not in a good way. The Neptune sound was futuristic, original, enticing and far ahead of the times so much so that the majority of those sounds would dominate today. Can you imagine Michael over “like I love you”?!? I remember when Pharrell said that “formal invite” was for Michael as well. Mike was losing it musically because that album he dropped that was referenced in this video was aggressively mid.. butterflies was one of the only joints on there.
Completely disagree, we're just fine. You have your opinion but the album is very underrated. I do agree with. For real should have produced some of the songs though. So I think that would have been great
The guy who started this thread is spot on!!!!! YRMW was dated by the time it came out. There was no Rodney Jerkins production on invincible that was any better than his work with Brandy or Whitney. If Invincible has come out in 97 it would have been a game changer. But by 2001 it was well behind the curve. The first 3 songs are forgettable as far as Michael’s catalogue goes. The more interesting records are Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait… MJ in his soul/rnb bag. Speaking honestly this would be catering to Michael’s black audience and I usually find the pushback from the white fans 🤷🏾♂️… despite being a global phenomenon by this point, he really needed a “come back home” record. What the Neptunes production would have offered MJ was those beautiful jazz chord progressions that Pharrell loved but that we also love to hear MJ on (think I Can’t Help It)… MJ blew up as a soloist via black music which he walked across the road to pop radio. Invincible has a very soggy mid section (2000 Watts, Cry, Lost Children, You Are My Life - TRASH RECORDS!!!) He should have done 10-11 tracks and kept it tight. “I thought that then and I think it now” - Don Vito
I think Michael missed the direction music was going in. The simple Neptunes sound was in. That sound alone is what was responsible for JT going from boyband member to crossover artists. Invincible didn’t have that edge it needed to be on par with the new era of music rolling in.
This is super interesting in that, Michael driving Rodney too far wasn’t the best fit for the actual music. In this case he shoulda collaborated with everyone.
That’s correct. MJ‘s issue was he was trying to go for the latest thing to re-create Thriller, but the thing that made thriller stand out was that other people (bands musicians singers) could go on stage and actually play those songs. And the moonwalk. And the thriller music video. It was hard for folks to re-create many of Michael songs from Dangerous on out. That’s why when Pharrell came into the picture, his “generic sound” was what MJ actually needed, because people can resonate with it. I’m assuming that’s why Sony pushed rock my world as the first single of invincible instead of his other tunes.
Okay, now I get why MJ never worked with Pharrell. I always wanted Pharrell to work with MJ. Teddy Riley was a great chose for MJ. Teddy had a totally different sound from everyone else back then.
Michael had a lot of good sounds that didn't become popular. Maybe the public was tired of him, personally. I dont think producers would've made a difference.
Unfortunatelly Invincible sounded too generic for MJ because he was repeating and old formula: Dangerous. The Neptunes sonded fresh and new. It was not about sampling sounds anymore, it was about culture.
I used to be like that when I was working on my second album, because I could sit and watch as my producer made me beats. Making beats like that definitely makes them better and more interesting, but as time went on producers got irritated by the artist who wants to waist time acting like a kid so, the passion slowly died now, I make my own, but not like that anymore, but I'm inspired to get back to that again after this.
What's missing from Rodney "Darkchild" Jerkins telling of the story is that, according to Pharrell Williams, Michael dismissed the demos because they had "no hooks".
MJ and Neptunes would have been a better collab than Rodney Jerkins. Especially, now knowing what those demos turned out to be. Plus, Rodney's responsible for the worst MJ album, Invincible. IMO
It wasnt his fault tho. Sony didnt promoted the Album at all and michael took forever to record the Album. So by the time it got out. It already Sounded ( i assume in your opinion) dated because darkchild already had established his Sound in the Late 90s.
@trelasoundz1203 5 good songs max on that album. The rest was garbage. Whether Sony promoted or not. And it sounding dated is the problem. The production was the problem. Classic albums like Off The Wall, etc, don't age. Invincible will never be considered a "classic " because the production hasn't aged well.
I don’t think Michael made a mistake turning down those tracks because those particular tracks were trying to emulate Michael which was ground that MJ had already covered. For example Rock ya body >> Rock with You.. Apparently Mike was more interested in a more aggressive Neptunes palette like the beats that were given to Noreaga [ Superthug / Oh No / Grimey ] which kinda makes sense because they have hard rock undertones, a sound which Michael embraced later on in his career in his voice and backing tracks..
MJ doing “Like I Love You” especially with the edgy dark vibe that JT had in his video, would have been awesome. But unfortunately MJ would have probably made it be like a Broadway production, too glossy and not a gritty feel that the live drums and the Spanish guitar have to it, let alone Clipse’s rap.
Ironically Invincible is the most generic album in Michael’s catalog. No use going through all that trouble to source sounds if they ended up being used like that, unlike the way Teddy Riley creatively used glass smashing, steam releasing, etc on Dangerous.
And even then, Dangerous was nowhere near as groundbreaking as Thriller or even Bad. Using drum machines when they were new… the first instances of synthesizers … having Bruce Swedien and Anthony Marinelli helping him craft those sounds… Dangerous was wayyyyyy better than Invincible but… Mike hit his peak in 82 and there was nowhere else to go but down …
@@for-house-stark compare those to Thriller, Beat It, Billie Jean, Bad, PYT, Smooth Criminal, Man In The mirror, Another Part of Me… Take it even earlier … “I want you back”, “the love you save”, “ABC”, “2-4-6-8”… heartbreak hotel, Show you the way you to go…. “Can you feel it?”, “don’t stop til you get enough…” “rock with you” “off the wall”, “shake your body Down to the ground “… his features on “somebody’s watching me”.. yeah invincible was pretty generic
@@blackanesebeats that's the problem right there. You're comparing songs. Those 3 songs I listed sound nothing like any song MJ ever did. So how can they be "generic"? Do you even understand the meaning of the word?
@@for-house-stark come on son. You’re talking about the greatest entertainer of all time … making something Usher could’ve done… Michael was groundbreaking at one point … not a follower of what’s hot. The songs you named don’t hold a candle to anything I named
@for-house-stark shut up! You're stating that someone doesn't know the meaning of generic?! You don't know the meaning of nuance! Just because most believe that Invincible isn't an "incredible" album as you think it is, so be it. Everyone doesn't love all things MJ as you do! We're all not fanatics. Relax and enjoy your incredible album! Put it on repeat for all we care! SMH
I respect Michael greatly but he was completely off on that assessment. There was absolutely nothing generic about the neptunes sound and the music on Justin’s album. The Neptune sound was not only futuristic but so far ahead of the times that the majority of that music could actually come out today and still top the charts.
@@CdointhangsIt feels like you didn't listen guy to the end. Michael was tired of generic drum machines, this was nightmare of 80s and 90s. Today we know that Neptunes shaped their unique style while using most obscure keyboard sounds ever. Michael didn't needed to be on the same page, there is no problem really, Pharell made lot of good music with other artists.
@@krsztgh7883 Lol what???? Pharrell and Chad literally used stock sounds straight of of the Triton for 95% of their beats.... Both for drum sounds and keyboard sounds. This is a fact. Not opinion. The Neptunes were a lot of things, but users of "the most obscure keyboard sounds ever" is absolutely hilarious.
I wont say his songs is crap alot of artists took a chance with him and make some amazing classic music with him.he cranked out hits with jay-z,clipse,snoop,justin timberlake,bey,kendrick lamar,kelis,nelly,busta,usher, mystikal even britney spears & gwen stefani.his resume is timeless & golden his music might not be for everyone's ear but I wont lie that man knows how to make a timeless hit that can have the whole universe pay attention.
Album was innovative and fresh sound that other artists were not using heartbreaker was the first dubstep track .. it's good to invent new sound can't be the same album sold 13 million copies with little to no promotion
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I think if MJ had done Rock Your Body it would be "Generic" for him, but because JT did it, suddenly it was a marketable hit? Does that make sense? Like Michael would have KILLEDD it, and it would sound amazing... but that's to be expected of him? Michael has always been about innovation, especially in his last 15 years. He probably heard it and thought, why ya'll trying to sound like me 20 years ago?
Bingo
FACTS!!!
This proves MJ deserves more production credits on his own catalogue because he drives his already legendary producers even beyond their initial leanings. Not to mention he originated a good number of hits on his own like “Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough”, “Billie Jean”, “Tabloid Junkie”, “Who Is It?”, “Centipede”, “Dangerous”, “Another Part of Me”, “Jam” ….
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾‼️
You’re forgetting that these ‘songs’ were just beats when MJ heard them. They weren’t ‘rock your body’ yet. You can literally see footage of pharrell and jt writing rock your body in the studio together and coming up with the melodies and words.
That's why his music was so different and timeless. His music from Dangerous onward is so futuristic it's never been duplicated. Now it makes sense.
There’s more to the story. Later apparently Michael ends up meeting with pharrell again, and saying “you know those songs should’ve been mine”, either joking or half joking. Hindsight hit him. Those records would have sounded incredible with those two musical minds.
Im sorry Pharrell is a legend but hes not in Micheal Jackson league yall gotta stop
@@kaujuanrichey7100 pharrell has a gift for melody and an innovative sound. I would suggest anyone look at his productions and still disagree. My point was who knows what the finished products with those two would’ve sounded like.
@@VeraciousMind you also said “hindsight hit him” insinuating that Micheal missed an opportunity to work with Pharrell. I’m simply here to tell you that Pharrell will need to have needed to work with Micheal more than Mike would need Pharrell. Pharrell did not produce a big enough or distinct enough sound for Micheal Jackson. There are levels.
Rodney is a living legend!
i'm so thrilled with these MJ stories - just like the host said, "goosebumps!"
Even if Mike accepted Pharrell’s beats…knowing how Mike works he would’ve forced Pharrell to add more futuristic sounds to those beats. So everything worked out as it should.
Exactly. If anyone thinks Michael was letting Chad and Pharrell use those stock Korg sounds they used on every other song they were doing at that point, they're lying to themselves.
yep around 90s -00 mj like those weird Fx's broken glass, brushes ect even on 2000 wats the he did it with the impact action sound fx
@@BruhBroham2001 Go back and listen to "Justified" though. It didn't sound like the things that the Neptunes had been doing previously.
@@onlinesavant right bro, dude was just yappin
@itsvictoroyedeji I agree with that but could you imagine as Neptunes beats can be sometimes tinny with space for more instruments.
This explains how a lot of his music around this time sounded like electricity lol especially on Brandy's full moon album.
You're absolutely right. It makes more sense now with all the mechanical, electric, Transformers sounding beats at that time.
💯💯💯
If I ever had the opportunity to work with Michael Jackson. I would sample the sun. 😂
😂😂
Mannn, I would've loved to see MJ operate in today's world with the technology available now.
I'd love to hear his thoughts and opinions on what music sounds like now. RIP MJ! Absolute King!
Peter Gabriel went to junkyards to sample sounds back in the late seventies for his album PG3 !
Great minds think out of the box
Invincible would’ve been better with some of the JT Neptunes songs + those pure R&B cuts like break of dawn, heaven can wait & butterflies imo.
But, I see where MJ was coming from. Superthug, futuristic Neptunes type beats like Ray J’s Wait a Minute are probably what he wanted from P.
Teddy Riley working with MJ for so many years understood the assignment with 2000 Watts.
Pharrell sent him basically a imitation of some shit he’s already done..
Like I love you and U don't have to call would have been so good with MJ singing them though :(
bingo
@@TakuTePuke-qd6df Yea, i can hear it but its still too overt..
@@Marcsxx I know Mike didnt like those songs but theyre bangers! same with seniorita and rock your body. Oh well :(
This is so inspiring. I could watch this over and over. Darkchild is one of my favorite producers.
Rumor has it You don't have to call usher's was for Mike
Yuck.. coo record but not for Mike..
The bridge section of both you don't have to call & remember the time are super similar...
There are probably no dots to connect here, but maybe The Neptunes made it being inspired by or paying homage to Mike and their founder Teddy Riley.
🤯🤯👀👀
A lot of wild comments in here, I would hate to hear what ya’ll play in your cars 💀
☠️☠️☠️☠️
Mike would have producers using all types of sounds to make sure it was fresh. 🏆
Mike was the producer 😂😂
I bet MJ wouldn't have turned down Timbaland's tracks from Justified. Timbaland was also about bringing different sounds to his music.
I’ve spent years being pissed that Mike didn’t go the Neptunes route.. BUT, in hindsight, the sound on Invincible is more timeless.. the Neptunes would have placed him squarely in the early 00s sound (along with everyone else at that time).. like, it would’ve been dope as a concept album or side project, but not to stand alone as a MICHAEL JACKSON album..
U Don’t Have to Call would’ve been smooth af though..
Love Michael Jackson very much ❤
I'm in the middle of remaking the beats to the invincible album to see how ut sounds with more urban beats for dj sets
Why did no one believe he was really calling? 😂 There are so many stories of people dropping the phone on that man
🤣☠️
Usher- you don't have to call was meant for MJ in 97
2001
@@bkyungplaya No Pharrell did an interview in 2002 with Trevor Nelson and confirmed that the song was presented to MJ 5 years prior, which was 97
Neptunes were not out in 97 and that song came out in 2001
@@mobmeansmobmobmeansmob2125 Neptunes were out since 92/93. Pharrell himself during a 2002 interview with trevor nelson, said that 5 years prior (1997), they presented you don't have to call to MJ's team
@@mobmeansmobmobmeansmob2125 The Neptunes were producing a lot of hits songs that they preciously kept under wraps before presenting them to the artists we know that sang them… that’s why they were consistently releasing hits after hits…
Wyclef Jean and Jerry Wonda also worked with Michael Jackson at that same time. 💯
Think about who Michael worked with production wise (on bulk production)…. Quincy, Teddy, Darkchild.
MJ knew what he wanted, he didn’t fumble anything.
Michael fumbled the bag here. This would have been huge for him. Instead, he gave a career to the guy who ended his sister's career.
Makes for great storytelling though, sometimes that's just how it was suppose to be written
wait who ended Janet’s career?
Don't get it twisted, Janet's career was never the same after that Superbowl performance with Justin.
Man. Not only U Don’t Have To Call, but Rock Your Body and both was top five hits
Micheal didn’t need Pharrell lol y’all are clueless
Wish he would've mentioned the songs all those samples are used on😓
Sheila E was play pop bottles on the thriller album. That’s MJ sound.
This is interesting because he loved Superthug lmaooo
pharrell needed to send him that and not justified lmao
The oh no beat also. Mystikal actually wanted that but Nore got it
MJ would've flowed on Superthug😅
@@DoobyScooo4699it’s odd cuz I really see the vision 😂 he would’ve skated on that
That’s where Pharrell went wrong. He sent Michael Jackson stuff that sounds like obvious, typical MJ stuff. When he shoulda sent him the stuff we was cooking for rappers, where the sounds were more along the line of what he was looking for at the time. And I bet Michael woulda SLID on “Superthug”.
Pharrell as good as the Neptunes were they were notorious for using stock sounds. We loved them because of it and they were the example of you don’t need to invent the wheel to make good music and hit records. I completely understand why Mike passed
People don't realise DonWill is a underrated rapper and is from a underrated group called Tanya Morgan
Too awesome 😎
I remember when that JT album came out saying how killer MJ would have been on them
i wanna hear the Janet stuff recorded circa 2010-2011
Nah MJ would have been perfect over those JT joints. Also, I love "You Rock My World" but I didn't hear any sounds on it that I hadn't heard before
Damn Rodney Jerkins looking big as hell now..he really should hit the gym and get healthier.
They all get fat and rich
bro he used to be even bigger. search google images for "Rodney jerkins Louis Vuitton"
Look back at his historical pictures, he's always been a big dude. He looks the same.
@@talkforlondon I know but you can´t stay like that over decades lol even Timbaland hit the gym now every week.
That's not a rumor. Pharrell made that clear on drink champs
Pharrell said mj didn’t want those Justin Timberlake songs, mj wanted the beats Pharrell was making for nore, mj wanted superthug
❤ king
Sounds like a music bexecutive meeting in here.
What does that mean? Lol
Prince did it himself and his problem with Mike was that he needs producers to do all that for him. Prince had a lot of quantity and quality tho. Michael had quality.
Mike was a singer and performer and prince was a real musician. I still laugh at the fact that mike wanted prince in bad video clip
@@TheChameleon2008 I don’t feel they would’ve made great music together. Prince & MJ were too competitive.
@@Shuvon95 true that! But its like apple and oranges tho.... they both awesome and legends.
@@TheChameleon2008They both were musicians by definition. Prince was just a multi-instrumentalist.
@@TheChameleon2008you weird asfff. Mike was more than that he was a songwriter, producer, composer, etc. Go do some research 😂😂
different
THE GOAT "DARKCHILD"
Pharrell with generic sounds??? Neptunes are the absolute best at using unconventional sounds. King of pop was tripping lol
This was a colossal misstep from Michael at the time. You rock my world was the definition of generic. That song sounded like it came out 10 years before it was released and not in a good way. The Neptune sound was futuristic, original, enticing and far ahead of the times so much so that the majority of those sounds would dominate today. Can you imagine Michael over “like I love you”?!? I remember when Pharrell said that “formal invite” was for Michael as well. Mike was losing it musically because that album he dropped that was referenced in this video was aggressively mid.. butterflies was one of the only joints on there.
Invincible is an underrated album however, those songs the Neptunes did would’ve been dope on Micheal
Completely disagree, we're just fine. You have your opinion but the album is very underrated. I do agree with.
For real should have produced some of the songs though. So I think that would have been great
The guy who started this thread is spot on!!!!!
YRMW was dated by the time it came out. There was no Rodney Jerkins production on invincible that was any better than his work with Brandy or Whitney. If Invincible has come out in 97 it would have been a game changer. But by 2001 it was well behind the curve.
The first 3 songs are forgettable as far as Michael’s catalogue goes.
The more interesting records are Butterflies, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait… MJ in his soul/rnb bag. Speaking honestly this would be catering to Michael’s black audience and I usually find the pushback from the white fans 🤷🏾♂️… despite being a global phenomenon by this point, he really needed a “come back home” record.
What the Neptunes production would have offered MJ was those beautiful jazz chord progressions that Pharrell loved but that we also love to hear MJ on (think I Can’t Help It)… MJ blew up as a soloist via black music which he walked across the road to pop radio. Invincible has a very soggy mid section (2000 Watts, Cry, Lost Children, You Are My Life - TRASH RECORDS!!!)
He should have done 10-11 tracks and kept it tight.
“I thought that then and I think it now” - Don Vito
Invincible was INSANE. It just didn't get promoted like the others because.... well... he told us why.
I think Michael missed the direction music was going in. The simple Neptunes sound was in. That sound alone is what was responsible for JT going from boyband member to crossover artists. Invincible didn’t have that edge it needed to be on par with the new era of music rolling in.
This is super interesting in that, Michael driving Rodney too far wasn’t the best fit for the actual music. In this case he shoulda collaborated with everyone.
That’s correct. MJ‘s issue was he was trying to go for the latest thing to re-create Thriller, but the thing that made thriller stand out was that other people (bands musicians singers) could go on stage and actually play those songs. And the moonwalk. And the thriller music video.
It was hard for folks to re-create many of Michael songs from Dangerous on out. That’s why when Pharrell came into the picture, his “generic sound” was what MJ actually needed, because people can resonate with it. I’m assuming that’s why Sony pushed rock my world as the first single of invincible instead of his other tunes.
If Mike did justified, it would have sounded tired and generic. He had been doing that stuff since the 80s
But MJ thought the Neptunes sound was generic? Even back then?
Okay, now I get why MJ never worked with Pharrell. I always wanted Pharrell to work with MJ. Teddy Riley was a great chose for MJ. Teddy had a totally different sound from everyone else back then.
I miss PRINCE AND MJ = THE GOATS!
I'd of LOVED Mike to of done Like I Love You
Facts
Michael had a lot of good sounds that didn't become popular. Maybe the public was tired of him, personally. I dont think producers would've made a difference.
Unfortunatelly Invincible sounded too generic for MJ because he was repeating and old formula: Dangerous.
The Neptunes sonded fresh and new. It was not about sampling sounds anymore, it was about culture.
Disagree with that bs
@ Dissgreeing doesen’t give any information to anybody. Please justify your point
I used to be like that when I was working on my second album, because I could sit and watch as my producer made me beats.
Making beats like that definitely makes them better and more interesting, but as time went on producers got irritated by the artist who wants to waist time acting like a kid so, the passion slowly died now, I make my own, but not like that anymore, but I'm inspired to get back to that again after this.
What's missing from Rodney "Darkchild" Jerkins telling of the story is that, according to Pharrell Williams, Michael dismissed the demos because they had "no hooks".
Rodney was in the room
MJ and Neptunes would have been a better collab than Rodney Jerkins. Especially, now knowing what those demos turned out to be. Plus, Rodney's responsible for the worst MJ album, Invincible. IMO
It wasnt his fault tho. Sony didnt promoted the Album at all and michael took forever to record the Album. So by the time it got out. It already Sounded ( i assume in your opinion) dated because darkchild already had established his Sound in the Late 90s.
@trelasoundz1203 5 good songs max on that album. The rest was garbage. Whether Sony promoted or not. And it sounding dated is the problem. The production was the problem. Classic albums like Off The Wall, etc, don't age. Invincible will never be considered a "classic " because the production hasn't aged well.
No HIStory is Micheal’s worst album
History had 4 good songs on it
Invincible is underrated
It's interesting how obsessed Michael was with sound design when considering how bland his music was.
I don’t think Michael made a mistake turning down those tracks because those particular tracks were trying to emulate Michael which was ground that MJ had already covered. For example Rock ya body >> Rock with You.. Apparently Mike was more interested in a more aggressive Neptunes palette like the beats that were given to Noreaga [ Superthug / Oh No / Grimey ] which kinda makes sense because they have hard rock undertones, a sound which Michael embraced later on in his career in his voice and backing tracks..
Hey yal I play violin and make very non generic music . Just posted first beat made on my iPhone
MJ doing “Like I Love You” especially with the edgy dark vibe that JT had in his video, would have been awesome. But unfortunately MJ would have probably made it be like a Broadway production, too glossy and not a gritty feel that the live drums and the Spanish guitar have to it, let alone Clipse’s rap.
Rodney’s an awesome producer but dude got huge. I knew he always been chunky but dude using them production riches to eat hearty every meal
Ironically Invincible is the most generic album in Michael’s catalog. No use going through all that trouble to source sounds if they ended up being used like that, unlike the way Teddy Riley creatively used glass smashing, steam releasing, etc on Dangerous.
And even then, Dangerous was nowhere near as groundbreaking as Thriller or even Bad. Using drum machines when they were new… the first instances of synthesizers … having Bruce Swedien and Anthony Marinelli helping him craft those sounds…
Dangerous was wayyyyyy better than Invincible but… Mike hit his peak in 82 and there was nowhere else to go but down …
Invincible is generic? Lol have you listened to threatened, unbreakable, Invincible, heartbreaker? You think those songs were generic?
@@for-house-stark compare those to Thriller, Beat It, Billie Jean, Bad, PYT, Smooth Criminal, Man In The mirror, Another Part of Me…
Take it even earlier … “I want you back”, “the love you save”, “ABC”, “2-4-6-8”… heartbreak hotel, Show you the way you to go…. “Can you feel it?”, “don’t stop til you get enough…” “rock with you” “off the wall”, “shake your body Down to the ground “… his features on “somebody’s watching me”.. yeah invincible was pretty generic
@@blackanesebeats that's the problem right there. You're comparing songs. Those 3 songs I listed sound nothing like any song MJ ever did. So how can they be "generic"? Do you even understand the meaning of the word?
@@for-house-stark come on son. You’re talking about the greatest entertainer of all time … making something Usher could’ve done… Michael was groundbreaking at one point … not a follower of what’s hot. The songs you named don’t hold a candle to anything I named
Michael would have worked well with Timbaland
Its crazy that he would think the Pharrell demos was generic, when songs like "Invincible" and "Heartbreaker" ended up on his album.
Then you don't know the meaning of the word generic
@@for-house-stark The song "Invincible" sounded way more generic than any of those Pharrell tracks that ended up on Timberlake's album.
@@AvoidTIMtation then you clearly don't even know the meaning of the word generic
@for-house-stark shut up! You're stating that someone doesn't know the meaning of generic?! You don't know the meaning of nuance! Just because most believe that Invincible isn't an "incredible" album as you think it is, so be it. Everyone doesn't love all things MJ as you do! We're all not fanatics. Relax and enjoy your incredible album! Put it on repeat for all we care! SMH
@@Jr.III-187 are you done c r y i n g?
I thought Rodney jerkins lost a bunch of weight .. he gained it back :(
Now you know rodney too young to have hit the wall like this? Would somebody look at this...
I think MJ was a bit out of touch by 2000, 2001. Blamed poor album sales of Invincible on Sony. The album just didn't have any real hits.
Sony stopped promotion of the album after one single. It was Sonys fault the album didn’t do better.
@@bigblueGiants It may have been dollars and cents if they had already over-spent.
MJ made a huge mistake here… those songs were so much better than any of the songs Rodney produced
😂 he made a mistake ?
You definitely bugged out. Rodney's sound is dope and that album was 🔥🔥🔥
Massive mistake by mike. Invincible was weak, no diss to Rodney at all. Them Neptune joints woulda saved him in that era.
Imagine… Mike with the Clipse. Wow!
🤯🤯🤯
Invincible was the worst sounding MJ album. Huge huge misstep.
MJ sounds best over jazzy chords and funk.
It happens to all the greats. They lose their ear for what's good.
Wtf there are plenty of great songs stop
Invincible isn't the worst sounding. It's just not your taste. That album was incredible
Na they were better suited to Justin
Yet, rock your world, was the big hit off this album, and it sounds like generic uptempo rnb, and even using a cliche phrase for the hook.
The Neptunes were definitely generic sounding when you think about their sound compared to what MJ was on so gotta respect that
I respect Michael greatly but he was completely off on that assessment. There was absolutely nothing generic about the neptunes sound and the music on Justin’s album. The Neptune sound was not only futuristic but so far ahead of the times that the majority of that music could actually come out today and still top the charts.
@@Cdointhangs you would know better than MJ
The stuff they gave Usher like You Don't Have To Call sounded more up Michael's alley IMHO but Michael has to feel it
@@CdointhangsIt feels like you didn't listen guy to the end. Michael was tired of generic drum machines, this was nightmare of 80s and 90s. Today we know that Neptunes shaped their unique style while using most obscure keyboard sounds ever. Michael didn't needed to be on the same page, there is no problem really, Pharell made lot of good music with other artists.
@@krsztgh7883 Lol what???? Pharrell and Chad literally used stock sounds straight of of the Triton for 95% of their beats.... Both for drum sounds and keyboard sounds. This is a fact. Not opinion. The Neptunes were a lot of things, but users of "the most obscure keyboard sounds ever" is absolutely hilarious.
Pharrell's songs were crap, not MJ's level.
I wont say his songs is crap alot of artists took a chance with him and make some amazing classic music with him.he cranked out hits with jay-z,clipse,snoop,justin timberlake,bey,kendrick lamar,kelis,nelly,busta,usher, mystikal even britney spears & gwen stefani.his resume is timeless & golden his music might not be for everyone's ear but I wont lie that man knows how to make a timeless hit that can have the whole universe pay attention.
@@489seven-YoungH Far from MJ's level.
they were hella basic and dry. sometimes he struck gold, but i noticed its when the artists performance was really good.
The joke is darkchild was as generic as they come
Too bad Mike didnt use them. Invincible was trash
Album was innovative and fresh sound that other artists were not using heartbreaker was the first dubstep track .. it's good to invent new sound can't be the same album sold 13 million copies with little to no promotion
@@jean-kristoffburgess9706 Unbreakable still sounds like it came out yesterday. People are hilarious