Knowing how completely sinful I am before a Holy and Living God who is perfectly Just. That would be an absolute YES to being scared at His return (or my death). I can only throw myself at His feet and ask for His mercy. "Have mercy on me, a sinner!" All I can do is try to have faith that His promises are true and that He will be full of mercy towards me. I would love to have full confidence, but I don't. My faith wanes and is lacking and I pray He will pour His Spirit out on me and strength my faith so I can truly truly trust Him as I should.
You are saying that you don't believe God. You are saying that you don't believe the PROMISE of eternal life to those who believe! What is it that you believe? The Gospel is the ONLY foundation you have to stand on. Why would you add anything else to that? Believe the Gospel! If you believe the Gospel, you HAVE to believe you HAVE eternal life, that you HAVE PASSED from death to life! It isn't enough to believe Christ died for your sins. You MUST believe the PROMISE. God CANNOT lie. "I am not ashamed of the Gospel because it is THE power unto salvation." You are ashamed of the Gospel if you won't receive eternal life BY FAITH! "It's THE gift of God, not of works, so that NOBODY can boast." Those who think they are "good enough" are boasters and will NOT enter heaven, because they are trusting in their own works and efforts instead of BELIEVING the PROMISE. "The one that does not work, but believes in Jesus, it is counted to him as righteousness." BELIEVE the Gospel! ALL religions require works. But, God saves by His grace, and it can never be received because of works. Our two cents wouldn't put a dent in the price Jesus paid for you. He doesn't want your two cents. It is an insult to the Lord Jesus to offer ANYTHING to Him when He already paid the price for you IN FULL! BELIEVE the Gospel!
@@graftme3168 thank you for your kind response. I definitely do not trust in my works and do believe that only Christs work on the cross saves.. But I do struggle with weakness of faith. I dont want to, but I do. I hate that I am like Thomas who wouldnt believe without seeing His hands, and I am no one to make such a statement or demand such proof. But I yearn for it to dissolve my doubt. And not some kind of extrabiblical manifestations. Something internal between only Him and me that is unmistakable. I have prayed for Him to remove my doubt and forgive my unbelief. More importantly, I yearn for Him, to commune with Him as Abraham and Moses did, with a complete assurance. Pray that He would show me kindness and His great compassion that I might unwaveringly know Him and His salvation, His peace and joy. Thank you again for your response
If you're preaching to the convinced, this is very good. If it's to pull people out of the pre-trib rapture, just using your personal experiences and not the actual doctrines we believe just feels like strawmen.
Jesus takes all of our sins when we believe, squashing fear of seeing him. Fear comes from trusting in our works. *It's not about a fearful eschatology.*
I tend to lean post-mil but this conversation was very pastoral and edifying - no matter how one views eschatology. Thank you Jon and Justin. Grace and peace from the UAE.
Of course the best social change would be bottom up, i.e., saved people living godly lives making everyone's life better (Protestant work ethics manifested). But in our constitutional republic it is good and right for Christians to do the work of ministry (preach the law and gospel) and make disciples, AND, advocate for laws on every level that reflect truth, goodness and beauty! It's not an either or proposition in the USA. Slavery was ended (on paper-in the West) because Christian abolitionists fought hard and did the right thing. Fret not, we will be able to walk and chew gum simultaneously!
When you make a system that says the Law is not for the present age, the available options for The Bad News, which must be told for the Gospel to be Good News, are few. The threat of being Left Behind is one of the few available. But we, regardless of how we think the millenium will pan-out (punny, I know), have no reason to use seeing our Lord as a cudgel. The Law is what drives us to the Cross. And everything in Christ is hope and assurance..
Not the law. It is love. We could not even care about our sins or even see them without the love in our hearts for the Lord. That is why Jesus said the first two greatest commandments are Matthew 22 34 to 40.
What part? Eschatology? Or the 2nd Advent specifically? I love Eschatology...it's one of the instrumental means the Triune God used to effectually call me to be a Christian. That, and Reformed Theology. Any questions, I'd be glad to do my best to answer. *Soli Deo Gloria*
39:25 & 40:11 ⚠ "THAT'S ALL LIFE'S ABOUT"..⚠ Literally missed the boat on that one! that IS NOT what he's saying! that was very wrong here's why, Matthew 25: 1-13 the Parable of the Ten Virgins. He's saying, Just like in the days of Noah, and Lot, the people were not prepared & they ignored every WARNING & they weren't paying attention & like a thief in the night He will come like a flash of lighting & half will be found spiritually asleep & unprepared & wont see it coming until suddenly everyone around us is suddenly swept away like in the flood of Noah, it will be when we're eating and drinking and marrying & not expecting. Despite being greatly warned that it can happen at any time. Most people seem to think it's the other way around & the believers are taken away by God but I think it's the believers who are left on earth because the bible says that the unbelievers won't stand in the judgment. & Jesus gets to judge us, then those who are taken to Him first will be spared by "vessels of mercy"... that were prepared for us, I don't know exactly what that is yet.. but will be spared from the second death because Jesus isn't coming back as a lamb to be slaughtered again, He's coming back as a wrathful Lion, but were saved from eternal death from the Fathers wrath. That's why were told to "stay awake. I think I read somewhere in the bible there will be a half hour of silence the sign that we'll have our lamps and lamp oil ready to go in that night and thoes who showed up unprepared will turn back to get their lamp & oil & miss it. & they'll have to endure through great trials and tribulations. I'm open to correction if i mixed some of that up, but I think 🤔🤔 its along those lines. KNOW YOUR BIBLE PEOPLE its things like that will get us in a lot of trouble!❤ Jesus says not to worry! He doesn't say, not to be care free! which seems to be implied here!
@@mr.anonymous5856 The oil represents the Holy Spirit, so if you are born again, you are ready. People seem to miss that the five virgins who didn't have any oil NEVER had oil to begin with. They SAID they ran out of oil but it tells us that they came without oil.
@@graftme3168 If Christ did what he said he would do, when he said he would do it, then all you hope is destroyed? Sad that your hope is in false promises told to you by men, instead of the true promises of God. Why believe anything, if Christ didn’t do what he said he would do when he said he would do it? If Christ didn’t come back when he said he would then he is a false prophet. When a Christian dies they go straight to heaven for eternity. You really think that is hopeless? Christ kingdom will never end and will come continue to fill the earth forever. Especially when the church discovers the truth and starts serving him the way we should,
You guys seem to be seriously misrepresenting dispensationalism. Of the popular books about dispensationalism that I have read, I haven't seen anything like what you are saying about it. Also, you say that nobody is talking about the return of Christ...... Dispensationalists are talking about it. Maybe if you are referring to a certain group of dispensationalism, like hyper or progressive, you should mention that. Normative, traditional dispensationalism is nothing like you are portraying. You should learn the difference before tossing the term around as if it applies to all groups of dispensationalism. I know you would expect the same courtesy and honesty.
Yes, there's a lot of false prophet "dreamers", who have stolen some pre-trib talking points to make themselves relevant, and they're using fear to do it. Once you believe in Jesus alone for salvation, there is no fear remaining, only a joy to be "gathered together with them in the air" and to "comfort one another with these words"! :D
If you are arbitrarily pre-chosen in eternity past it will be joyful. But if you are as Calvin put it "Doomed from the womb" & have a divine decree of reprobation upon you with no hope of salvation, it's quite daunting I'm sure.
As if we know who the Elect and the Reprobate are. We only know who unbelievers are today...and that many of them will become believers in the future. But we also know God's Judgements are accurate; He doesn't make mistakes. Only sinners will burn in the Lake of Fire. God is JUST, and His Justice is as perfect as He is. *Soli Deo Gloria*
In AD 70 when Jesus was said to have returned, no judgement, as said In scripture, took place, nor did the things happen as Jesus, who is God, said they would, and the reigning kingdom isn't sinless. Nor has there been any removal of death, darkness, etc. Judgement is still at hand according to scripture Hebrews 9:27 ESV [27] And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
@@devantependleton5221 Read Revelation 22 the leaves of the tree are for healing vs:22 (who needs healing if there is no sin) outside the city walls there is sin vs:15 and so many more texts, it is not a utopia that is believed amongst futurists, Zechariah 14:16-19 New Jerusalem is spiritual Hebrews 12:22-24. Hope you have a good day brother !
@@philiptweet5970 Zechariah 12:10 ESV [10] “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. [7] Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. Scripture records every eye will see him, a guarantee, yet not every eye has seen him, for he has not returned yet. The new Jerusalem will return when he returns
@@philiptweet5970Revelation 19:11-14 ESV [11] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. [12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. [13] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. [14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. Revelation 20:4 ESV [4] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
This also has not happened either, or else, Christ would be here, reigning with us who believe.
@philiptweet5970 and lastly, believers are healed to the extent of received salvation, however, they are not full restored. As scripture says, we wait for the fullness of restoration to come: Romans 8:20-23 ESV [20] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope [21] that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. [23] And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Every Christian should "fear" the 2nd Advent of the King of kings, Lord of lords. Why? Because of the destruction of the wicked that He brings with Him (His Holy Angels will "reap" the world of the wicked!). The Church will be on the earth during the 7 Last Plagues (though we will be unaffected by them). It's going to be a SCARY TIME, indeed!
Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43... The parable of the "Wheat and the Weeds/Tares". Jesus teaches that there will be 2 GROUPS of human creatures at His 2nd Advent: 1). The Tares/Weeds, "sons of the devil"; and, 2). The Wheat, "sons of the Kingdom". Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout, voice of the archangel, and the trumpet call of God; THEN, the "reaping angels" will SLAY all the wicked who are living at the time (Christians will be on the earth to witness this DESTRUCTION); THEN, the "wheat/sons of the Kingdom" will be RAPTURED up to Heaven (1 Thes. 4:13-18). All the wicked who are living at the time of the 2nd Advent will be have taken the "mark of the beast" (which has not happened yet). Yes, this will be SCARY! *Soli Deo Gloria*
Knowing how completely sinful I am before a Holy and Living God who is perfectly Just. That would be an absolute YES to being scared at His return (or my death). I can only throw myself at His feet and ask for His mercy. "Have mercy on me, a sinner!" All I can do is try to have faith that His promises are true and that He will be full of mercy towards me. I would love to have full confidence, but I don't. My faith wanes and is lacking and I pray He will pour His Spirit out on me and strength my faith so I can truly truly trust Him as I should.
You are saying that you don't believe God. You are saying that you don't believe the PROMISE of eternal life to those who believe! What is it that you believe? The Gospel is the ONLY foundation you have to stand on. Why would you add anything else to that? Believe the Gospel! If you believe the Gospel, you HAVE to believe you HAVE eternal life, that you HAVE PASSED from death to life! It isn't enough to believe Christ died for your sins. You MUST believe the PROMISE. God CANNOT lie. "I am not ashamed of the Gospel because it is THE power unto salvation." You are ashamed of the Gospel if you won't receive eternal life BY FAITH! "It's THE gift of God, not of works, so that NOBODY can boast." Those who think they are "good enough" are boasters and will NOT enter heaven, because they are trusting in their own works and efforts instead of BELIEVING the PROMISE. "The one that does not work, but believes in Jesus, it is counted to him as righteousness." BELIEVE the Gospel! ALL religions require works. But, God saves by His grace, and it can never be received because of works. Our two cents wouldn't put a dent in the price Jesus paid for you. He doesn't want your two cents. It is an insult to the Lord Jesus to offer ANYTHING to Him when He already paid the price for you IN FULL! BELIEVE the Gospel!
@@graftme3168 thank you for your kind response. I definitely do not trust in my works and do believe that only Christs work on the cross saves.. But I do struggle with weakness of faith. I dont want to, but I do. I hate that I am like Thomas who wouldnt believe without seeing His hands, and I am no one to make such a statement or demand such proof. But I yearn for it to dissolve my doubt. And not some kind of extrabiblical manifestations. Something internal between only Him and me that is unmistakable. I have prayed for Him to remove my doubt and forgive my unbelief. More importantly, I yearn for Him, to commune with Him as Abraham and Moses did, with a complete assurance. Pray that He would show me kindness and His great compassion that I might unwaveringly know Him and His salvation, His peace and joy. Thank you again for your response
I YEARN for Jesus to come back...
If you're preaching to the convinced, this is very good. If it's to pull people out of the pre-trib rapture, just using your personal experiences and not the actual doctrines we believe just feels like strawmen.
Jesus takes all of our sins when we believe, squashing fear of seeing him. Fear comes from trusting in our works. *It's not about a fearful eschatology.*
I tend to lean post-mil but this conversation was very pastoral and edifying - no matter how one views eschatology. Thank you Jon and Justin. Grace and peace from the UAE.
People should only be scared of Jesus coming back if they rejected Him after the resurrection
You find joy in what Christ did on the cross
❤
I want to hear about this theology of suffering
❤ excellent conversation
Yes, I'm scared. 😱
Of course the best social change would be bottom up, i.e., saved people living godly lives making everyone's life better (Protestant work ethics manifested). But in our constitutional republic it is good and right for Christians to do the work of ministry (preach the law and gospel) and make disciples, AND, advocate for laws on every level that reflect truth, goodness and beauty! It's not an either or proposition in the USA. Slavery was ended (on paper-in the West) because Christian abolitionists fought hard and did the right thing. Fret not, we will be able to walk and chew gum simultaneously!
When you make a system that says the Law is not for the present age, the available options for The Bad News, which must be told for the Gospel to be Good News, are few.
The threat of being Left Behind is one of the few available. But we, regardless of how we think the millenium will pan-out (punny, I know), have no reason to use seeing our Lord as a cudgel. The Law is what drives us to the Cross. And everything in Christ is hope and assurance..
Not the law. It is love. We could not even care about our sins or even see them without the love in our hearts for the Lord. That is why Jesus said the first two greatest commandments are Matthew 22 34 to 40.
Is it possible you could touch on preterism?
i still have trouble with this part of Christianity.
What part? Eschatology?
Or the 2nd Advent specifically?
I love Eschatology...it's one of the instrumental means the Triune God used to effectually call me to be a Christian.
That, and Reformed Theology.
Any questions, I'd be glad to do my best to answer.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
39:25 & 40:11 ⚠ "THAT'S ALL LIFE'S ABOUT"..⚠ Literally missed the boat on that one! that IS NOT what he's saying! that was very wrong here's why, Matthew 25: 1-13 the Parable of the Ten Virgins. He's saying, Just like in the days of Noah, and Lot, the people were not prepared & they ignored every WARNING & they weren't paying attention & like a thief in the night He will come like a flash of lighting & half will be found spiritually asleep & unprepared & wont see it coming until suddenly everyone around us is suddenly swept away like in the flood of Noah, it will be when we're eating and drinking and marrying & not expecting. Despite being greatly warned that it can happen at any time. Most people seem to think it's the other way around & the believers are taken away by God but I think it's the believers who are left on earth because the bible says that the unbelievers won't stand in the judgment. & Jesus gets to judge us, then those who are taken to Him first will be spared by "vessels of mercy"... that were prepared for us, I don't know exactly what that is yet.. but will be spared from the second death because Jesus isn't coming back as a lamb to be slaughtered again, He's coming back as a wrathful Lion, but were saved from eternal death from the Fathers wrath. That's why were told to "stay awake. I think I read somewhere in the bible there will be a half hour of silence the sign that we'll have our lamps and lamp oil ready to go in that night and thoes who showed up unprepared will turn back to get their lamp & oil & miss it. & they'll have to endure through great trials and tribulations. I'm open to correction if i mixed some of that up, but I think 🤔🤔 its along those lines. KNOW YOUR BIBLE PEOPLE its things like that will get us in a lot of trouble!❤ Jesus says not to worry! He doesn't say, not to be care free! which seems to be implied here!
@@mr.anonymous5856 The oil represents the Holy Spirit, so if you are born again, you are ready. People seem to miss that the five virgins who didn't have any oil NEVER had oil to begin with. They SAID they ran out of oil but it tells us that they came without oil.
Jesus already came back. so no, I am not scared of him coming back.
Amen bro ❤
@@ChristCenteredEschatology That destroys all hope. If this is it, God is not God.
@@graftme3168 If Christ did what he said he would do, when he said he would do it, then all you hope is destroyed?
Sad that your hope is in false promises told to you by men, instead of the true promises of God.
Why believe anything, if Christ didn’t do what he said he would do when he said he would do it?
If Christ didn’t come back when he said he would then he is a false prophet.
When a Christian dies they go straight to heaven for eternity. You really think that is hopeless?
Christ kingdom will never end and will come continue to fill the earth forever. Especially when the church discovers the truth and starts serving him the way we should,
@@ChristCenteredEschatology Nothing sad about the promises of God.
@@graftme3168 Nope. Just the ones made up by men, that God never promised.
You guys seem to be seriously misrepresenting dispensationalism. Of the popular books about dispensationalism that I have read, I haven't seen anything like what you are saying about it. Also, you say that nobody is talking about the return of Christ...... Dispensationalists are talking about it. Maybe if you are referring to a certain group of dispensationalism, like hyper or progressive, you should mention that. Normative, traditional dispensationalism is nothing like you are portraying. You should learn the difference before tossing the term around as if it applies to all groups of dispensationalism. I know you would expect the same courtesy and honesty.
Yes, there's a lot of false prophet "dreamers", who have stolen some pre-trib talking points to make themselves relevant, and they're using fear to do it. Once you believe in Jesus alone for salvation, there is no fear remaining, only a joy to be "gathered together with them in the air" and to "comfort one another with these words"! :D
@@LilacDaisy2Today wouldn't be too soon for me! I hope He comes soon!
If you are arbitrarily pre-chosen in eternity past it will be joyful. But if you are as Calvin put it "Doomed from the womb" & have a divine decree of reprobation upon you with no hope of salvation, it's quite daunting I'm sure.
As if we know who the Elect and the Reprobate are.
We only know who unbelievers are today...and that many of them will become believers in the future.
But we also know God's Judgements are accurate; He doesn't make mistakes.
Only sinners will burn in the Lake of Fire.
God is JUST, and His Justice is as perfect as He is.
*Soli Deo Gloria*
No fear, his coming in judgement was for the covenant breakers in AD70. We live in the new everlasting covenant. Hebrews 13:20
In AD 70 when Jesus was said to have returned, no judgement, as said In scripture, took place, nor did the things happen as Jesus, who is God, said they would, and the reigning kingdom isn't sinless. Nor has there been any removal of death, darkness, etc. Judgement is still at hand according to scripture Hebrews 9:27 ESV
[27] And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
@@devantependleton5221
Read Revelation 22 the leaves of the tree are for healing vs:22 (who needs healing if there is no sin) outside the city walls there is sin vs:15 and so many more texts, it is not a utopia that is believed amongst futurists, Zechariah 14:16-19 New Jerusalem is spiritual Hebrews 12:22-24.
Hope you have a good day brother !
@@philiptweet5970 Zechariah 12:10 ESV
[10] “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
[7] Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
Scripture records every eye will see him, a guarantee, yet not every eye has seen him, for he has not returned yet. The new Jerusalem will return when he returns
@@philiptweet5970Revelation 19:11-14 ESV
[11] Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. [12] His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. [13] He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. [14] And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.
Revelation 20:4 ESV
[4] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
This also has not happened either, or else, Christ would be here, reigning with us who believe.
@philiptweet5970 and lastly, believers are healed to the extent of received salvation, however, they are not full restored. As scripture says, we wait for the fullness of restoration to come: Romans 8:20-23 ESV
[20] For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope [21] that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. [23] And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Every Christian should "fear" the 2nd Advent of the King of kings, Lord of lords.
Why? Because of the destruction of the wicked that He brings with Him (His Holy Angels will "reap" the world of the wicked!).
The Church will be on the earth during the 7 Last Plagues (though we will be unaffected by them).
It's going to be a SCARY TIME, indeed!
Mt. 13:24-30, 36-43... The parable of the "Wheat and the Weeds/Tares".
Jesus teaches that there will be 2 GROUPS of human creatures at His 2nd Advent:
1). The Tares/Weeds, "sons of the devil"; and,
2). The Wheat, "sons of the Kingdom".
Jesus will descend from heaven with a shout, voice of the archangel, and the trumpet call of God;
THEN, the "reaping angels" will SLAY all the wicked who are living at the time (Christians will be on the earth to witness this DESTRUCTION);
THEN, the "wheat/sons of the Kingdom" will be RAPTURED up to Heaven (1 Thes. 4:13-18).
All the wicked who are living at the time of the 2nd Advent will be have taken the "mark of the beast" (which has not happened yet).
Yes, this will be SCARY!
*Soli Deo Gloria*