Hi Chloe, greetings from Australia, Im a 60 yo Elder Goth and have lived my goth life for 42 years. Ive seen and experienced a lot in the subculture. For me being a goth is about how you feel inside and that manifests externally in a few or many ways. The music you like, your aesthetics, the movies you like, the places you visit etc. Essentially being true to yourself is what makes your heart sing. I came across your channel yesterday and have really enjoyed what youve shared with us. Great aesthetic you have and a skilled artist to boot! You have a calm, chill energy that I relate to and a voice to match, would you consider reading to your subscribers sometime? Congratulations on your channel, so looking forward to your future content.
Thank you for sharing your insight, its always great to hear an elder goth's perspective! I think I tend to agree with your definition, people should just try to be themselves. Thanks for supporting my channel, I'm glad you like my aesthetic and my art ☺. I hadn't considered reading to my subscribers before, but who knows, maybe someday! (also, my name is Cleo, btw, not Chloe)
I very much appreciate you offering your perspective on the topic of what is goth. I personally don't rely on any sort of objective definition of what is goth or what anything is. I find, for me at least, that objective definitions are quite limited. Moreover, you know those "What is your aesthetic" quizzes that are found on the internet? I have taken multiple of those, and the results vary (one said I was "alien aesthetic", another said "pastel goth", and another said that I am an "anomaly"). Based on what you described, however, I may have hints of the goth aesthetic since I am interested in bizarre, uncanny stuff, as well as artists such as Jim Kirkwood and Nurse With Wound. I also noticed you are nearing 100 subscribers. I am glad to see how much your channel is growing.
I don't think its necessary that someone be a part of an established subculture or have some kind of defined "aesthetic", but its useful to have those kinds of labels for people who do fit into those categories. Just doing your own thing or taking elements of lots of different subcultures and aesthetics is perfectly valid too, and honestly really cool! I know, I really didn't think I'd get here so soon after starting this channel!! I really appreciate all the support you've given me since I first started making videos! You were one of my first subscribers and I always appreciate how you comment on all my videos ☺
@@porcelainghoul Thank you for replying. That is a valid point you make about labels. I guess the dadaism label fits me the most (often refers to surrealism and nihilism, with the label appearing as far back as the 1910's). Then again, many of the aesthetics I am interested in don't seem to have many labels attached to them. For example, I am not sure if you have ever seen the first Fantasia movie, but in that film, there is an animation on prehistoric Earth, and the way the animation was done is hard to describe. A similar animation style is also seen in the short film titled "Suur Toll" ("Tyll the Giant"). Another example is an aesthetic that often involves parallel lines of light alongside parallel lines of shadow being displayed in either an office-looking room or what looks to be the inside of a pyramid (again, hard to describe). This seems similar to another aesthetic that involves a bright blue sky at an airport or office building of some kind, alongside white and blue lines. There is an album by the band Camel titled "Heroes", and that cover art uses those white and blue lines I am referring to, and so does the cover art for the album "Par Avion" by Xeno and Oaklander. The sounds of those albums can also sound like the way the cover art looks as well. Love the content as always. I am interested in seeing what's next, but you take all the time you need.
@@mr.llama1016 That is very interesting. How would you say the Dadaism label applies to you specifically? Like, is it something about the way you dress, or the art you make, the sort of lifestyle you live? I've heard the term in regards to art, but I've never heard a person label themselves as "Dadaist" before, so I'm really interested in learning exactly what that entails! You bring up a lot of interesting examples of unnamed aesthetics I've never even seen or thought about before! Its interesting how many things there are like that in our culture, that are recognizable, but which don't necessarily have an established name
@@porcelainghoul Since dadaism can be traced back to the 1910's and dadaism kind of still exists today in the form of surreal memes (such as the sound variations meme and those uncanny CGI animations found on TH-cam), the clothing that I often dress in or am interested in dressing in is the kind of clothing that was common from the 1880's to the 1920's, as well as the professional clothing and styles that were common from the 1970's to the 2010's (as far as I'm concerned, the surreal memes appeared somewhere in the middle of the 2010's). Also, the artists that have expressed their interest in dadaism, such as Nurse With Wound, pretty much have that style as well. Another thing I notice is when I watch videos that were made in the 1970's to the 2010's, I sometimes notice clothing or themes that were much more commonplace many decades before, similar to how you may occasionally see an old car design or old hairstyle from the 1980's or any other style from decades ago that has made a comeback. So not only is there today a nostalgic comeback of formerly commonplace styles, but also, back when these styles were commonplace, there were also styles decades before then that have made a comeback. I very much like how old styles can combine with new ones. That is basically what I do as well. Some of my t-shirts are rather large for my size, making it look like some kind of ritualistic clothing, but without any sort of religion or ritual involved. I also have long black or blue pants with a red or blue stripe on it, giving a futuristic vibe of some kind. I even have a sweatshirt that has a professional vibe of some kind. As for art, the only art I make is somewhat like how Syd's art is, with random color effects and an unrecognizable appearance. That is how the label of "dadaism" applies to me. I am kind of all over the place, but at the same time, I reference the professional styles that existed around the times dadaism is said to be most prevalent.
I'm so happy I came across this video! I feel pretty much the same as you on this and I think this kind of mindset comes mostly with experience. Of course, music is the base of the goth subculture, but like you said there's much more involved as well and I agree that I care a lot more if someone is a good person before knowing if they listen to the "correct" music. You can always share music, like you said! Also, your makeup and outfit and room looks so good!
for me, i differentiate between goth, a person part of the goth community, and a gothic person goth: listens to the music, plain and simple. preferably knows about goth values and history and is atleast vaguely into the community a person a part of the goth community: listens to the music And takes part in the community itself, through atleast some but not all of these qualities: 1. most notably through engaging in the local scene if they can or trying to engage with the community in some way. 2. partaking in the diy culture. even better if this includes a love of supporting small businesses and not being the fondest of capitalism and unethical business practices 3. partaking in the fashion 4. partaking in the literature 5. recognizing our roots in punk and that the community is atleast somewhat involved with politics. at the very least, be accepting and open 6. appreciate the darker things in life 7. oppose conformity, strive for individualism and is actively being themselves no matter what (within reason. like im not going to go to my job in trad goth makeup) 8. know goth history and events. atleast know of bands like siouxsie and bauhaus and all that. even better if you know the roots even before that such as screaming jay hawkins, gothic literature, punk, the doors, ect 9. oppose bigotry of any kind again, by no means all of these at once, but like a couple is preferred, especially number one and finally, a gothic person: a person who participates in the fashion and enjoys dark aesthetics, but is not involved with the community and does not listen to the music at the end of the day, people are complex amd putting a label on them is difficult and an imperfect practice. but it does help to have definitions and know what exactly it means to be goth. these are my attempts at defining such things, and if someone has a differebt opinion to mine thats completly fine as long as they respect mine and are civil with me about it. im not the arbiter of truth, nor are any of us, because i think there will never be a 100% true definition of goth. humans and humsn cultures dont work like that, they dont have rigid and struct rules on how it is and isnt acceotable to exist as your complex, evercganging, multifaceted human self. we can only have vague ideas and fuzzy rules, i think that is the closest we will get to defining sonething like this and i think the sooner us as a community recognize all this the better
Interesting perspective! I like your take on these things. By your definition, I would fit mostly into "person a part of the goth community", although I have no local scene to participate in. The rest of it all applies to me, though. I wish there was a goth community where I lived that I could take part it, but unfortunately that sort of thing just doesn't exist around here.
@@porcelainghoul yea same with me unfortunately, the closest scene I have is 2 hours away. which is doable for big events but just sadly not practical for every day things and such, it's why I phrased it the way I did. like if you have a local scene try to participate in it but also I know most of us aren't that lucky sadly and yeah, I'm also a goth that's part of the community! I'd say that's like. "true" goth, but I dont want to police people and tell them they aren't goth if they don't do this that and the other. goth in its simplest definition is listening to the music so I don't think I have a right to tell someone who listens to the music they aren't goth. but I agree with you in that there are a lot of other things about the culture and I think music is most important but that's not all there is to it on the surface, I would call someone that listens to the music goth no matter what. simply cuz, frankly, I think it ain't none of my business and I never liked being gatekeepy or elitist.it just pushes people away from us and goes against our values of being open, accepting, and just being a haven for the freaks.if they identify with that abd find comfort in it and do the bare minimum of being goth, I say let em. but between you and me and my own personal opinion, if I saw a goth person irl and they said they don't partake in aaanything but the music. I'd think they aren't really "true" goth (I don't like using that word in this context but I'm not sure how else to describe it). like, a conservative right wing goth. sure I guess I won't argue with them using the label of goth if they listen to the music but like. I won't consider them 'one of us' or someone I could really relate to and I think most of the community would agree. they'd be goth by definition but not exactly in practice,and likely wouldn't be accepted by the community too much I dont think to be true goth you have to participate in every single part of the culture, I think that's ridiculous to demand of someone and goes against the values of encouraging people to just be themselves. but it would be better if they participated in at the very least two or more parts of the culture abd be open to learning or trying other parts. I would never want to force someone to be something they aren't, thats the opposite of what I want, but it'd be cool if goths where open to getting more into the culture if they want and they like it
@@porcelainghoul holy shit sorry for the novel pFFT, I didn't realize I wrote that much! I guess it's just a really complex matter and I have a lot of thoughts lmao
@@thefluffyaj4119 You don't need to apologize for the length of your comment, I appreciate your insight and I largely agree with your perspective. Also consider that not every person who listens to goth music necessarily considers themselves goth! For example, both of my parents have listened to some goth music since they were teenagers in the 80's, but I doubt either of them would really consider themselves "goth" since neither of them really look the part or participate in the subculture in any real way anymore, and they listen to a lot of other kinds of music, as well. My mom does have a number of online friends who are goths, though, so I suppose she does have some involvement in the scene to some degree. Personally, I have only been to one real life goth event, but its difficult for me to get to such things because the closest town that has a goth scene is also about a 2 hour drive away, and I don't even have a car! I'm planning on moving to California at some point in the indefinite future, so I'm hoping the area I'm moving to will have more of a goth scene that I can participate in. The town I'm moving to is going to be probably around the same size as the one I'm living in now, so its not a major city or anything, but still I think the culture of a smallish town in California has got to be a lot different than a smallish town in Alabama.
@@x.osiris.x You're in Alabama too? Nice! There's so few of us here, its always nice to encounter another one lol. Thank you so much, and I'm glad you liked the video!
People used to think I was a Satanist, I am independent when it comes to religion, I believe that every religion has some truth behind it. My favorite band is IAMX, what most people don't understand how many different forms of Goth there actually is. My boyfriend likes goth chicks he listens to different varieties of music, but he isn't a Goth, I hear you.
Though I support the LBGTQ community I do not care for pronouns I consider it entitlement, I am also not really gay or straight however I still find goth fashion aesthetic and enjoy dark and creepy things
@@desireehaynes8541 I disagree with you completely on the subject of pronouns. I don't think its "entitlement" for someone to want people to refer to them with the correct pronouns, it's a matter of basic respect. You say you support the LGBTQ community, but how much do you really support them when you can't even show them the most basic level of respect by not misgendering them? It takes so little effort to just be a decent person and call someone what they want to be called, but you won't even do that. If you have never experienced gender dysphoria, you have no idea how painful it can be to have someone misgender you. I'm a ciswoman myself, but I have many friends and loved ones who are trans/nonbinary and I know how much it hurts them when someone doesn't respect their pronouns
@@porcelainghoul I do have friends that are gay and transgender but not all, LBGTQ people use pronouns, I just feel like they're just words, no I have never suffered gender dysphoria however I just don't really believe in it and I'm sorry if I offend you but I feel like I have the right to speak up for what I believe in, that doesn't mean I'm against it, it's just my opinion
@@porcelainghoul I'm not trying to start a debate about it I'm just voicing my opinion I feel that people should respect my feelings on the subject as well
Though I have never suffered from gender dysphoria, I have still been judged and bullied for just being who I am as far as the way I dress and what I believe in people think I'm crazy because I believe in ghosts and mystical beings, I mean yeah it isn't the same thing I have a friend that is gay but she does not consider herself a man just because she doesn't like to do feminine things, she is still feminine , people can hate me all they want I'm standing up for what I believe in, I just don't think it's right to force people to see you as the opposite gender when in fact you are not, that doesn't mean I dislike transgender people or non-binary people, like I said I've never experienced and gender dysphoria, but I just don't think it's an excuse to throw tantrums just because people misgender you, like all you have to say is hey I identify as this gender
@@desireehaynes8541 First of all, all people, whether LGBTQ or not, use pronouns. They're a part of basic grammar. Second of all, just because you have a cisgender lesbian friend, that doesn't delegitimize trans people. Gay and trans are two totally different things. I'm glad you don't actively hate trans people, but whether you hate them or not, your point of view is still one that causes lots of harm to trans people, so I can't respect that. I'm sorry to hear that you got bullied, but that isn't really the same thing considering the fact that there aren't people in positions of power lobbying to attack your very right to exist.
You seem like a pretty level-headed nice person I'm not judging you I'm just trying to say that people automatically look at me I'm gone I'm goth what does that mean I have to be gay or bisexual, or trans , all I'm saying is if you want people to respect your pronouns and whatever else you've got to show them respect for telling you that they disagree, you shouldn't Force somebody to believe in something that they don't
Hi Chloe, greetings from Australia, Im a 60 yo Elder Goth and have lived my goth life for 42 years. Ive seen and experienced a lot in the subculture. For me being a goth is about how you feel inside and that manifests externally in a few or many ways. The music you like, your aesthetics, the movies you like, the places you visit etc. Essentially being true to yourself is what makes your heart sing. I came across your channel yesterday and have really enjoyed what youve shared with us. Great aesthetic you have and a skilled artist to boot! You have a calm, chill energy that I relate to and a voice to match, would you consider reading to your subscribers sometime? Congratulations on your channel, so looking forward to your future content.
Thank you for sharing your insight, its always great to hear an elder goth's perspective! I think I tend to agree with your definition, people should just try to be themselves.
Thanks for supporting my channel, I'm glad you like my aesthetic and my art ☺. I hadn't considered reading to my subscribers before, but who knows, maybe someday! (also, my name is Cleo, btw, not Chloe)
My apologies re your name, it's late here, thankyou for your thoughts re my comments, all the best to you @@porcelainghoul
@@Lord_Zoran It's all good, people make that mistake all the time. All the best to you as well!
I very much appreciate you offering your perspective on the topic of what is goth. I personally don't rely on any sort of objective definition of what is goth or what anything is. I find, for me at least, that objective definitions are quite limited. Moreover, you know those "What is your aesthetic" quizzes that are found on the internet? I have taken multiple of those, and the results vary (one said I was "alien aesthetic", another said "pastel goth", and another said that I am an "anomaly"). Based on what you described, however, I may have hints of the goth aesthetic since I am interested in bizarre, uncanny stuff, as well as artists such as Jim Kirkwood and Nurse With Wound.
I also noticed you are nearing 100 subscribers. I am glad to see how much your channel is growing.
I don't think its necessary that someone be a part of an established subculture or have some kind of defined "aesthetic", but its useful to have those kinds of labels for people who do fit into those categories. Just doing your own thing or taking elements of lots of different subcultures and aesthetics is perfectly valid too, and honestly really cool!
I know, I really didn't think I'd get here so soon after starting this channel!! I really appreciate all the support you've given me since I first started making videos! You were one of my first subscribers and I always appreciate how you comment on all my videos ☺
@@porcelainghoul Thank you for replying. That is a valid point you make about labels. I guess the dadaism label fits me the most (often refers to surrealism and nihilism, with the label appearing as far back as the 1910's). Then again, many of the aesthetics I am interested in don't seem to have many labels attached to them.
For example, I am not sure if you have ever seen the first Fantasia movie, but in that film, there is an animation on prehistoric Earth, and the way the animation was done is hard to describe. A similar animation style is also seen in the short film titled "Suur Toll" ("Tyll the Giant").
Another example is an aesthetic that often involves parallel lines of light alongside parallel lines of shadow being displayed in either an office-looking room or what looks to be the inside of a pyramid (again, hard to describe). This seems similar to another aesthetic that involves a bright blue sky at an airport or office building of some kind, alongside white and blue lines. There is an album by the band Camel titled "Heroes", and that cover art uses those white and blue lines I am referring to, and so does the cover art for the album "Par Avion" by Xeno and Oaklander. The sounds of those albums can also sound like the way the cover art looks as well.
Love the content as always. I am interested in seeing what's next, but you take all the time you need.
@@mr.llama1016 That is very interesting. How would you say the Dadaism label applies to you specifically? Like, is it something about the way you dress, or the art you make, the sort of lifestyle you live? I've heard the term in regards to art, but I've never heard a person label themselves as "Dadaist" before, so I'm really interested in learning exactly what that entails!
You bring up a lot of interesting examples of unnamed aesthetics I've never even seen or thought about before! Its interesting how many things there are like that in our culture, that are recognizable, but which don't necessarily have an established name
@@porcelainghoul Since dadaism can be traced back to the 1910's and dadaism kind of still exists today in the form of surreal memes (such as the sound variations meme and those uncanny CGI animations found on TH-cam), the clothing that I often dress in or am interested in dressing in is the kind of clothing that was common from the 1880's to the 1920's, as well as the professional clothing and styles that were common from the 1970's to the 2010's (as far as I'm concerned, the surreal memes appeared somewhere in the middle of the 2010's). Also, the artists that have expressed their interest in dadaism, such as Nurse With Wound, pretty much have that style as well.
Another thing I notice is when I watch videos that were made in the 1970's to the 2010's, I sometimes notice clothing or themes that were much more commonplace many decades before, similar to how you may occasionally see an old car design or old hairstyle from the 1980's or any other style from decades ago that has made a comeback. So not only is there today a nostalgic comeback of formerly commonplace styles, but also, back when these styles were commonplace, there were also styles decades before then that have made a comeback. I very much like how old styles can combine with new ones. That is basically what I do as well.
Some of my t-shirts are rather large for my size, making it look like some kind of ritualistic clothing, but without any sort of religion or ritual involved. I also have long black or blue pants with a red or blue stripe on it, giving a futuristic vibe of some kind. I even have a sweatshirt that has a professional vibe of some kind. As for art, the only art I make is somewhat like how Syd's art is, with random color effects and an unrecognizable appearance.
That is how the label of "dadaism" applies to me. I am kind of all over the place, but at the same time, I reference the professional styles that existed around the times dadaism is said to be most prevalent.
@@mr.llama1016 your style sounds really interesting!
I'm so happy I came across this video! I feel pretty much the same as you on this and I think this kind of mindset comes mostly with experience. Of course, music is the base of the goth subculture, but like you said there's much more involved as well and I agree that I care a lot more if someone is a good person before knowing if they listen to the "correct" music. You can always share music, like you said! Also, your makeup and outfit and room looks so good!
@@vaneruin Thank you so much! I'm glad what I said resonated with you 😊
for me, i differentiate between goth, a person part of the goth community, and a gothic person
goth: listens to the music, plain and simple. preferably knows about goth values and history and is atleast vaguely into the community
a person a part of the goth community: listens to the music And takes part in the community itself, through atleast some but not all of these qualities:
1. most notably through engaging in the local scene if they can or trying to engage with the community in some way.
2. partaking in the diy culture. even better if this includes a love of supporting small businesses and not being the fondest of capitalism and unethical business practices
3. partaking in the fashion
4. partaking in the literature
5. recognizing our roots in punk and that the community is atleast somewhat involved with politics. at the very least, be accepting and open
6. appreciate the darker things in life
7. oppose conformity, strive for individualism and is actively being themselves no matter what (within reason. like im not going to go to my job in trad goth makeup)
8. know goth history and events. atleast know of bands like siouxsie and bauhaus and all that. even better if you know the roots even before that such as screaming jay hawkins, gothic literature, punk, the doors, ect
9. oppose bigotry of any kind
again, by no means all of these at once, but like a couple is preferred, especially number one
and finally, a gothic person: a person who participates in the fashion and enjoys dark aesthetics, but is not involved with the community and does not listen to the music
at the end of the day, people are complex amd putting a label on them is difficult and an imperfect practice. but it does help to have definitions and know what exactly it means to be goth. these are my attempts at defining such things, and if someone has a differebt opinion to mine thats completly fine as long as they respect mine and are civil with me about it. im not the arbiter of truth, nor are any of us, because i think there will never be a 100% true definition of goth. humans and humsn cultures dont work like that, they dont have rigid and struct rules on how it is and isnt acceotable to exist as your complex, evercganging, multifaceted human self. we can only have vague ideas and fuzzy rules, i think that is the closest we will get to defining sonething like this and i think the sooner us as a community recognize all this the better
Interesting perspective! I like your take on these things. By your definition, I would fit mostly into "person a part of the goth community", although I have no local scene to participate in. The rest of it all applies to me, though. I wish there was a goth community where I lived that I could take part it, but unfortunately that sort of thing just doesn't exist around here.
@@porcelainghoul yea same with me unfortunately, the closest scene I have is 2 hours away. which is doable for big events but just sadly not practical for every day things and such, it's why I phrased it the way I did. like if you have a local scene try to participate in it but also I know most of us aren't that lucky sadly
and yeah, I'm also a goth that's part of the community! I'd say that's like. "true" goth, but I dont want to police people and tell them they aren't goth if they don't do this that and the other. goth in its simplest definition is listening to the music so I don't think I have a right to tell someone who listens to the music they aren't goth. but I agree with you in that there are a lot of other things about the culture and I think music is most important but that's not all there is to it
on the surface, I would call someone that listens to the music goth no matter what. simply cuz, frankly, I think it ain't none of my business and I never liked being gatekeepy or elitist.it just pushes people away from us and goes against our values of being open, accepting, and just being a haven for the freaks.if they identify with that abd find comfort in it and do the bare minimum of being goth, I say let em. but between you and me and my own personal opinion, if I saw a goth person irl and they said they don't partake in aaanything but the music. I'd think they aren't really "true" goth (I don't like using that word in this context but I'm not sure how else to describe it). like, a conservative right wing goth. sure I guess I won't argue with them using the label of goth if they listen to the music but like. I won't consider them 'one of us' or someone I could really relate to and I think most of the community would agree. they'd be goth by definition but not exactly in practice,and likely wouldn't be accepted by the community too much
I dont think to be true goth you have to participate in every single part of the culture, I think that's ridiculous to demand of someone and goes against the values of encouraging people to just be themselves. but it would be better if they participated in at the very least two or more parts of the culture abd be open to learning or trying other parts. I would never want to force someone to be something they aren't, thats the opposite of what I want, but it'd be cool if goths where open to getting more into the culture if they want and they like it
@@porcelainghoul holy shit sorry for the novel pFFT, I didn't realize I wrote that much! I guess it's just a really complex matter and I have a lot of thoughts lmao
@@thefluffyaj4119 You don't need to apologize for the length of your comment, I appreciate your insight and I largely agree with your perspective. Also consider that not every person who listens to goth music necessarily considers themselves goth! For example, both of my parents have listened to some goth music since they were teenagers in the 80's, but I doubt either of them would really consider themselves "goth" since neither of them really look the part or participate in the subculture in any real way anymore, and they listen to a lot of other kinds of music, as well. My mom does have a number of online friends who are goths, though, so I suppose she does have some involvement in the scene to some degree.
Personally, I have only been to one real life goth event, but its difficult for me to get to such things because the closest town that has a goth scene is also about a 2 hour drive away, and I don't even have a car! I'm planning on moving to California at some point in the indefinite future, so I'm hoping the area I'm moving to will have more of a goth scene that I can participate in. The town I'm moving to is going to be probably around the same size as the one I'm living in now, so its not a major city or anything, but still I think the culture of a smallish town in California has got to be a lot different than a smallish town in Alabama.
So glad the algorithm recommended this channel to me!
@@drakulauna So glad to have you here! 🖤
I love your room, it looks gorgeous! And you do as well!
Also, I love your take on this.
@@crucifyivara Thank you! Next video is gonna be a room tour, keep an eye out for that later today or possibly tomorrow!
Ayeee, another goth in Alabama! Your outfit is amazing and I really like your viewpoints! I'm glad your video showed up in my recommended!
@@x.osiris.x You're in Alabama too? Nice! There's so few of us here, its always nice to encounter another one lol. Thank you so much, and I'm glad you liked the video!
ur room looks cool lol
Thanks!
People used to think I was a Satanist, I am independent when it comes to religion, I believe that every religion has some truth behind it. My favorite band is IAMX, what most people don't understand how many different forms of Goth there actually is. My boyfriend likes goth chicks he listens to different varieties of music, but he isn't a Goth, I hear you.
Though I support the LBGTQ community I do not care for pronouns I consider it entitlement, I am also not really gay or straight however I still find goth fashion aesthetic and enjoy dark and creepy things
@@desireehaynes8541 I disagree with you completely on the subject of pronouns. I don't think its "entitlement" for someone to want people to refer to them with the correct pronouns, it's a matter of basic respect. You say you support the LGBTQ community, but how much do you really support them when you can't even show them the most basic level of respect by not misgendering them? It takes so little effort to just be a decent person and call someone what they want to be called, but you won't even do that. If you have never experienced gender dysphoria, you have no idea how painful it can be to have someone misgender you. I'm a ciswoman myself, but I have many friends and loved ones who are trans/nonbinary and I know how much it hurts them when someone doesn't respect their pronouns
@@porcelainghoul I do have friends that are gay and transgender but not all, LBGTQ people use pronouns, I just feel like they're just words, no I have never suffered gender dysphoria however I just don't really believe in it and I'm sorry if I offend you but I feel like I have the right to speak up for what I believe in, that doesn't mean I'm against it, it's just my opinion
@@porcelainghoul I'm not trying to start a debate about it I'm just voicing my opinion I feel that people should respect my feelings on the subject as well
Though I have never suffered from gender dysphoria, I have still been judged and bullied for just being who I am as far as the way I dress and what I believe in people think I'm crazy because I believe in ghosts and mystical beings, I mean yeah it isn't the same thing I have a friend that is gay but she does not consider herself a man just because she doesn't like to do feminine things, she is still feminine , people can hate me all they want I'm standing up for what I believe in, I just don't think it's right to force people to see you as the opposite gender when in fact you are not, that doesn't mean I dislike transgender people or non-binary people, like I said I've never experienced and gender dysphoria, but I just don't think it's an excuse to throw tantrums just because people misgender you, like all you have to say is hey I identify as this gender
@@desireehaynes8541 First of all, all people, whether LGBTQ or not, use pronouns. They're a part of basic grammar. Second of all, just because you have a cisgender lesbian friend, that doesn't delegitimize trans people. Gay and trans are two totally different things. I'm glad you don't actively hate trans people, but whether you hate them or not, your point of view is still one that causes lots of harm to trans people, so I can't respect that. I'm sorry to hear that you got bullied, but that isn't really the same thing considering the fact that there aren't people in positions of power lobbying to attack your very right to exist.
I like visiting haunted places, and I love the fashion haven't been able to wear my goth clothes much
You seem like a pretty level-headed nice person I'm not judging you I'm just trying to say that people automatically look at me I'm gone I'm goth what does that mean I have to be gay or bisexual, or trans , all I'm saying is if you want people to respect your pronouns and whatever else you've got to show them respect for telling you that they disagree, you shouldn't Force somebody to believe in something that they don't