What Family Lawyers Say About Paternity Fraud
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024
- Six Family Lawyers' Experience with Paternity Fraud. What is your professional experience with paternity fraud? Is it illegal to lie about paternity? What happens if you commit paternity fraud? How common is paternity fraud? For more, see memphisdivorce...
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Randy Kessler
Atlanta, Georgia
Kessler & Solomiany, LLC
www.ksfamilyla...
ABA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Melissa Avery
Indianapolis, Indiana
Broyles Kight & Ricafort, P.C., Of Counsel
bkrfamilylaw.c...
ABA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Joseph W. Booth
Lenexa, Kansas
Law Offices of Joseph W. Booth
www.boothfamil...
ABA Family Law Section, Co-Chair of Publications Board
Scott N. Friedman
Columbus, Ohio
Friedman & Mirman Co., L.P.A.
www.friedmanmi...
ABA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Stephen N. Peskind
St. Charles, Illinois
Peskind Law Firm, PC
www.peskindlaw...
ABA Family Law Section, Author
Barry L. Gold
Chattanooga, Tennessee
McWilliams, Gold & Larramore
mcgfirm.com/bar...
TBA Family Law Section, Past Chair
Miles Mason, Sr,
Memphis, Tennessee
Miles Mason Family Law Group, PLC
memphisdivorce...
ABA Family Law Section, Author
#PaternityFraud #Paternity #MilesMason
Paternity fraud should be a felony
Paternity Stealing, & more comes to life because one is trying to keep ,.............(Adultery) covered- up.
To the second attorney: so it’s completely fine that the female lied to the man, her child and the court system but when the man figured out that she was lying you stopped representing him? So much for fiduciary duty I guess. It’s terrible for the child but 100% of the blame is on the woman who lied to everyone.
That lawyer should lose his license for that. He’s perpetuating fraud himself by being ok with the fraud committed by the mother.
That's how all these people are making money.
I was thinking the same thing!
You'r looking at the dad like he's a scum bag , when he was deceived and wanted out of a situation that he was tricked into.
How is he wrong, the mother is to blame for the child losing a dad he thought was his.
Not the alleged father.
This country is backwards and thats why all these single mother homes exist, family values no longer exist and divorces are rampant.
When you lie to a child about who their dad is, your robbing the child of their ancestry and right to know who their biological dad is.
Instead the courts are worrying about how the child feels when the mother robbed the child of knowing the truth in the first place.
Stupid absurd laws and stupid judges and attorneys.
Yeah he didn’t make any sense. If the guy had continued to play father, then that gets used against him in court…
The issue here is that in other areas of life fraud is a crime, but with respect to deceptive women they are rewarded for their deviant behavior.
The law doesn't bastardize the child. The mother does when she ducks outside of the marriage.
The government has no authority to classify anyone a bastard based on circumstances of birth. The government has an obligation to make sure the biological parents who willingly engaged in the intercourse have full rights and responsibilities to their offspring.
@@hillbillysceptic1982 I'm an older man and I can remember stories of married soldiers who were gone for very long periods of time who came home from fighting wars overseas to find that a wife had had one or more children in his absence. A few accepted the excuse of extreme loneliness of the wife in their absence or she thought he might have died in battle. In my opinion love is a strange animal, and how a man will ultimately react to that kind of situation is not always predictable. I personally forgave my ex for infidelity on two different occasions because I truly loved her. But it ultimately ended our thirty plus year relationship. Trust is so precious in any relationship, and once broken it can sometimes become impossible to reestablish. Just one more thought, in my opinion, no fault divorce should only be an option that both parties agree to and not subject to the liberal norms, polices and laws of the land. Perhaps, at least some people, would think twice about the consequences of infidelity. Just my thoughts.
I wonder if the 2nd lawyer would be so dismissive of a case if he was personally defrauded of $55,000.
But that wouldn’t be fair or in good faith
Probably not!
I am currently a victim of paternity fraud trying to find justice for myself, the biological Father and the child in question.
That attorney acting like he has some kind of moral authority to judge that man is laughable. STFU with that BS. Many men have ended themselves over this issue.
Or his son was , sure he would be appalled .
DNA tests should be mandatory at birth.
No, explicit, unforced consent to parenthood is what is needed for men. It needs to be informed consent, so that necessitates DNA results.
Or require a DNA test for paternity, custody and support hearings. You want his name on the birth certificate, that DNA has to match
No, not at birth. As soon as you find out she is pregnant and she says its yours. Have her sign an Affidavit about who the father is and then a dna requirement test first thing at birth.
Lol there is a reason they aren't
Guys, do we really want that? Imagine cheating on your wife & your side piece has to hand the baby over to take a mandatory dna test… we’d want that quickly reversed. Especially our rich fellow men… sometimes it’s better to pay her hush money than to have it publicly documented that you have a child outside of your marriage.
" Most paternity fraud is from married couples." !!!!! Wow, that is telling about the state of marriage these days.
These days? That's been going on from the beginning of marriages.
yeah it has always been that way, going back to the dawn of humanity.
just didnt have access to dna to prove
and even easier to hide when the populace is genetically closer and lacking diversity
No, it's telling about the state of women.
Can't change a 304 into a Wife = House Wife = Girlfriend.
The state of women. Don't victim blame the husband when the wife cheats and lies.
Not a bunch of "people" lie about paternity. A bunch of women. Never be scared to tell it like it is!!!!
How dare they not call them birthing people!
No it is not only about parentage - it is financial fraud, pure and simple! She defrauded all the parental support payments out of this man. He should be able to reclaim this money!
Father chose to believe the mother.
@@JimzAuto He isn't the father, he was lied to.
@@JimzAuto so peoples good faith should be taken advantage of?
@@Blackatchaproduction choices have consequences... women used to be made of 'sugar and spice and everything nice'... NO MORE.
@@JimzAuto Oh, I see, you think that paternity fraud is retribution because other women in other places at other points in history had this that and the other done to them. No, they aren't owed anything for being the same gender as people who went through something.
Apparently it's now law in Jamaica for all newborns to be paternity tested. Pretty sure that should be achievable in the USA and Canada.
There is too much money involved. If the girl can't find someone to pay they lost the ability to get back payments
They admitted in California that the paternity fraud laws won't pass because it would be very costly financially to the states.
You may be right, but i have not read or heard that announcement.
However Jamaica has the highest paternity fraud rate (Jacket as it's called in Jamaica) rate in the world at 34.5% (official rate, and a whopping 75% (unofficial rate)
@eljay5009; You're right. This is clearly explained in the Dept. of Justice Civil Rights 9 page memo dated March 14th, 2016 (Illegal Enforcement of Fines and Fees). The fraud behind paternity testing is the "omitted" legal consequences that the courts, attorneys, ocse and hospitals are not telling the fathers.
In addition to my previous comment, "Fathers, I must add, are oftentimes treated like criminals with little access to their own children and having child support payments strangling the very life out of them" (See Hon. Senator Nancy Schaefer's letter entitled "The Corrupt Business of Child Protective Services").
Informed consent.
If a man signs a form after being lied to, in what other case is that an enforceable contract?
Marriage
Almost every man I have ever spoken to about this see paternity fraud as "evil"
It is evil.
Lets be careful where we ejaculate please.
It is evil
Biologically speaking it is the equivalent to rape for women
Of course it is.
Mandatory paternity test at birth for every child.
Honest women would have no problem with this.
How common is paternity fraud?
Feminists assure us that it's rare, 1 in 100 if that.
I have two relatives working as RNs on maternity wards and they say that it's likely more like 1 in 5 among married women: one woman even had a child that was clearly of a race different than her and her husband's, and STILL insisted he was the father.
30% by any recordable estimation.
Yea, according to feminists paternity fraud is rare and rape is common. The bitches got that backward. Paternity fraud is common and rape is rare.
Closer to 30%
they have seen that 30% of babies are not with their real father
@@blackopsrocks Just think about that , 1/3 of babies born aren't for the men that sign for them.
I bet that number is probably higher , its staggering .
In 1969, at age 19, I observed the plague of divorce taking place, and resolved never to marry or have children.
Now, at age 72, that has proven to be one of my best decisions ever.
This video illustrates one of many reasons why that is true.
Marriage tends to be a very worthwhile gig for women, and a big mistake for a lot of men.
Society has little interest in what situations benefit men.
@@thorntonwilliams3851 but society is not a person. We have the technology, just like we have the pill. So the time for mandatory DNA testing is now upon us, and it needs to happen.
@@mobydick3895 Agreed. But, I'm not optimistic about courts holding women accountable in the way do men, on this matter. I hope I'm wrong about that.
@@thorntonwilliams3851
NAh you will be right, in the Us women are treated with gloves, they can do no wrong and when they do it's a slap on their wrist .
So you have a society of women who feel entitled , behave poorly , make bad decisions, single motherhood epidemic and it's all sanctioned by the government .
When you live in a country where the women have no values , you'r society starts to erode and that is what we are seeing; and have been seeing for the last 50 years.
Simply listen to the view point of these stupid attorneys!
@@thorntonwilliams3851 The feminist culture also does not care if men are harmed, but we still need to push for mandatory paternity tests at birth.
"The court does not want to bastardize the child." What a bunch of bs. As soon as it's known that there's no biological bond, it will get bastardized anyways. Stealing the guy's money won't change the fact that the social surroundings know that the kid is in fact "a bastard". I highly doubt their portrayal of these situations(i.e. cucked "father" still wants to pay/be the parent). Horrible takes from all lawyers but the 1st.
Horrid, horrid, horrid. Men are nothing to them.
this!
Yeah this was BS
Moreover simply compel the mother to identify the real father and assign him legal paternal responsibility after a DNA test. Problem solved.
It's not about bastardizing the child it's about money because if this man is not the father then the state of where this child was born fatherless is.
what we need is more men who were victims of paternity fraud to become judges.
Judges are (in family court) soulless. OK, all other courts too.
Pretty much
Oooh, that's a good one!!!
Where would one of us get the resources to go through law school?
Men should never vote for a woman for any office. Why? =>Women first protect women's interests then every other thing in this world comes secondarily to that. Women in general make terrible leaders.
This is sickening. Lawyer #2 did not want anything to do with the case because it was wrong? I am sorry what? What do you mean wrong? A person committed fraud against an innocent party and you thought that innocent person was "in the wrong". You should be disbarred from any sort of bench as far as I am concerned. You took oath to uphold justice for crying out loud. Lady justice is literally THE symbol for judicial process.
Lawyer #3 supports fraud. Lawyer #4 thought it was no big deal.
Lawyer #5 talked about men wanting to continue relationship with children who are not theirs... what? What do you mean difficult for lawyers?! It is very simple. She wants child support because she committed fraud and legal system rewards her, punishes an innocent man and lawyer gets to continue living in a $1 mil house.
This nonsense makes me sick. No surprise that in Dante's Infeno written more than 700 years ago he dedicates almost entire layer of hell to unjust lawyers.
I thought I was the only one thinking this these people have lost their mind. If women have the right to choose ,why Don't i
@@mxgx7508 They not only have the right to choose for themselves, but for you too apparently.
Yeah I thought that lawyer was a gutless pos.
He didn't like him. And his argument was that being a victim of fraud is ok if the money goes to a child. None of that sounds moral, ethical, principled, or legal. Somehow I get the feeling if he was a victim of fraud, he might change his tune.
Thank YOU for saying!
It's people like them that allow these absurd things to perpetuate in society , only in the US does this foolishness happen, where women are empowered to do wrong and rewarded for it.
Now just think about it, what exactly are you telling women , that it is ok for you to cheat , behave promiscuous , bring a child into the world and trick any man you deem suitable and put a child on him .
The courts won't do much if anything and you can collect that mans income for a child you know isn't his; and you have these attorneys acting like it's no big deal and the child is what matters, NO.
Money is what matters to them, it's all about money ,not doing right by people.
I picked up this girl in a bar and I had no idea she was married. Her husband was a truck driver and after a few nights with her, she told me she had two kids and the father was her brother-in-law, not her husband. She wasn't even ashamed in telling me that. That was the last time I saw her.
The second lawyer said what? the system is legit rigged against men... this is a person who is supposed to represent you. If the kid is not yours you should be able to get your money back. and the lady needs to be punished. Fraud is fraud.. damn I just cannot believe what he said.
Yeah belive it !
That is why this is able to go on, because of people like them; and its these same people that become judges and make the decisions to ruin other men's lives.
Fuck that. The lawyers/judges should not decide whether or not a father has to stick around if that child is not biologically his. They don't have the right to make a man pay for or support a child they did not take part in conceiving.
Women, children, and dogs have rights.
Men have responsibilities.
courts decide consent for the man
illegal to do that to a woman, men are in servitude to sexist ruling judge's
He's the father
@@rodburley3966 he’s not
@@rodburley3966 Do you need remedial help with reading comprehension? Reread the comment and see if you can find your mistake.
Glad I live in the UK(Scotland).
DNA says kid ain't yours, kid ain't yours.
If they go for child support, DNA test, case closed.
Only problem is if it's already paid before you find out. Even with a court judgement, it's a case of good luck trying to get it back.
That's a good common-sense law.
Would these lawyers have the same attitude if a mother asked to sue a hospital if she had been given the wrong baby soon after birth? I suspect not.
Hospitals have lots of money. Women don't
These lawyers seem to see nothing wrong with a man being tricked into taking care of a child that wasn't theirs, if that be the case how about they switch places with those men, they can pay the child support instead.
Since they see nothing wrong with forcing a man to pay for a child that isn't his.
I bet that would never fly!
If your wife out of the blue wants to have another child and ends up pregnant real quick, you need a paternity
test quick. She might be trying to cover up her deeds and confuse the date of impregnation.
This whole concept of protecting the child's feels at the cost of the man's wellbeing is not the courts job if it aint his kid and is the product of adultery and he was deceived. Justice should be put in the mans hands, if he wants it he can make that choice but the mother needs to be legally charged with a crime so the fraud is on record and if needed a punishment or monetary action placed against her. This for married couples if you are not married then you should always get a paternity test no matter what the woman says, there is no expectation of good behavior in that situation. No bastardizing a child is BS a bastard is a bastard and in these days it is probably the mothers fault it is a bastard, a socity that can not live in reality is doomed no matter who's feelings get hurt.
So, the child shouldnt be punished for the actions the mother has done. But...the man should? :)
In the USA the men are expendable... it will take 50-100 years but the nation is doomed.
@eljay5009 there would be just so much improvement to our society if we had mandatory DNA testing. All the way around.
I think the man should bear responsibility for not taking the necessary steps to ensure the child was biologically his.
@@paulinejackson5861 So penalise the victim who had no suspicions & let the perpetrator off scott-free. Sounds fair.
If a father kills his neighbor, should he be set free to avoid "punishing" the child? That's absurd.
If a mother commits paternity fraud on a minimum of three innocent people (child, siblings, father, husband, father's relatives, husband's relatives, etc, etc, etc). should the mother be set free to avoid "punishing" the child? That's absurd. Give her 10 - 20 years in prison.
In my opinion. I believe that it should be law, that DNA tests happen at birth. The consequences lie on the man. If they are married, and he requests a DNA test, then the repercussions can be devastating to the marriage, if the test proves paternity. Civil referrals should also be given in cases of paternity fraud. When a woman goes to support court, there is a high chance of bias against the Father.
Child support is big business for states. I paid over $250k for 2 children. Years of harassment from the Mother. She could request adjustment inquiries for free, and no hassles. Free lawyers. When I was unemployed, due to a downsizing, I tried to receive legal help. The legal aid offices denied me, due to her being a client, presently, or past. When I went to get a "Readjustment of Claims Form", I was treated like a deadbeat, and was looked down upon by the receptionist. I also had to pay $35 for the filing.
She committed fraud, and stuck me with a $6000 add on to arrearages. I paid on time, and kept current. She got married after the birth of our kids. Had a daughter to that marriage. They got divorced. She went on public assistance. The Father of that child was not paying. She claimed the kid on my support. I found out, when I got pulled over for a traffic stop. The officer (which I knew) came back to the car, and told me my license was suspended. I got my license back eventually. They never removed the $6000. They told me that "They would catch her eventually.". I had all documentation to send them, and they refused it.
Men have the $h77y end of the stick in these cases. They will take your license. You lose your job. They throw you in jail. You get backed up. Your credit gets shattered, and there are quite a few men that either kill themselves, or end up destitute. Equal protection under the law, my ass.
And people wonder why guys are just done with everything.
In this video, many of the lawyers don't want to admit this is a problem.
Yeah because they make money off of the fraud, so why would they want it to stop.
What is this nonsense about concerns of basterdazation of the child? Simply make the mother identify the real father and then find him and assign him legal paternal responsibility. Most of those lawyers are full of BS.
Being a bastard was or having a child that’s not the father’s was scandalous at minimum or down right shameful to be shunned. Not so much now or it’s generally accepted out of wedlock. So the argument for bastardisation holds not much water
A bastard is a child born to parents who are not married to each other. It used to bring great shame to the mother and sometimes to the father, but it has no relevance in the modern feminist culture.
29.5% of White children are being raised by a single mother.
44.8% of Black children are being raised by a single mother.
25% of children are being raised by an unwed couple.
More than half of all children in the US are bastards.
lawyer #2...you just admitted to violating your duty to the client which if that client had known that, would have forced you in front of the bar to explain to them why you could absolve your duty. He wasn't violating any law, he was not wrong, in continuation it was provable to do damage to your client, thus you violated YOUR duty. The child was not your client.
the second lawyer confirms my position on the legal profession.. SNAKES!
This is NOT a difficult decision for judges. It’s easy, if a man proves he’s not the father and takes that to court, it’s an open shut case - his parental obligations are terminated and in cases when he was paying child support he is entitled to be paid bank all the child support from the women recipient.
Notice how the lawyers twist things around trying to justify keeping an innocent man on the hook.
Unfortunately it's not that easy. Bc of court of public opinion and most judges consider this bs too, when ruling
@@errolm8313 then they should not be judges.
there is a difference between a father providing and a court mandating the amount of support including child's choice of college.
So the courts have encourage women to be promiscuous since there is no adverse outcome. Imagine if more courts did the right think and shamed the woman and absolved the man I bet there would be less infidelity specially in marriage.
I am one of these kids I just found out as an adult ..... It has been a issue for me...
It's not your fault. Your mother did this to you. Your mother did this to someone who she KNEW wasn't your father. If he holds resentment, it's his right, if he doesn't then you have a demonstration of what the best of us men can be like.
@@blackopsrocks Or the weakest depending on how you look at it..
can you tell us about your issues to learn more, would be really interesting, i feel for you
What gets me is how many of the lawyers in this video talked about the court not wanting to take a father way from the child. The court doesn't have any control of that. If a man can't get past the trauma of finding out the child they loved and thought was theirs really isn't their biological child. Then there is nothing the court can do. That child has already lost a dad and it's the mothers fault. The court can force the man who is a victim here to continue to pay for a child that's not his. But they can never force that man to be the child's father.rememvwr, there are two victims here, the man and the child. And one criminal.
Why not address this within United States common law, falsifying public records and to falsify public records is a crime in every state within the United States.
Please explain why if you won’t either make DNA tests mandatory or make the mother sign a sworn affidavit can’t a mother who lied about the paternity be sued for fraud?
Can a father utilise any safe haven law without the mother's consent? Normally women do not need the father's consent to abandon the child.
Remember once severed no more fees for the shyster lawyer. no more family court no more panicked man desperately trying to avoid jail or bankruptcy from daddy court paying from someone else's spawn. no recurring fees.
Why not make it mandatory for everyone to do a paternity test. So many women have defrauded men for years.
This is way more prevelent than people realize but it kept quiet - when the truth finally comes out it is devastating to father and child. They need to require paternity testing when a child is born - like they do in the army - would take all the emotion out of the issue and women would think long and hard before trying to do it. Would also make the real father accountable for his actions - because most of the time he gets off scott free
Momma's baby,daddy's maybe!
I have justice based solutions for some of these issues. Of course there would be mandatory DNA testing required for all new births. Regarding births that would have occurred prior to a mandate, I suggest that legal consequences for fraud are in order. That amy and all fraudulently gained support be repaid including interest. That the person who committed the fraud be legally compelled to divulge the true identity of the biological father. Failure to divulge would have automatic legal penalties in addition to the fraud charges. That any man who has parented nonbiological child(ren) be granted visitation and parenting time but not required to pay child support. That any monetary support received by the mother from the nonbiological father be listed as income for her and a tax write off for him. Perhaps an additional judgement for compensation due to mental end emotional anguish.
.
I think it would be a tad heavy handed but we could go another route with really tough justice. Jail the perpetrator for defrauding both the legal system and an innocent man. Since the mother is doing time for her crime, offer the nonbiological father legal adoption or at least full custody. Order the mother to pay him child support. Too harsh? Have your parental rights denied. Be ordered to pay child support anyway. Possibly end up in jail. This describes the experience of 1000s of men, many of whom are victims of paternity fraud.
What about taking the driving license off the fraudster if they can’t pay or in arrears in compensation. This is what they do to men in the American system
@@BC-vg3zf There's that too. But that portion of the law is so very ass backwards, that it should never, under any circumstances, be allowed or applied.
The attorney from Illinois isn't worth crap. If I found out my child wasn't mine, we're done. I'm walking away from it, I'm walking away from the low-down 304 mother of that kid. Any bond we had is gone. Thank your 304 for that. I'm out, no contact with anyone. If I can, I'm finding the father, and seeing what I can do to him.
Why you mad at the dad?
@@westa1762 I don't even remember the video.
All men do not adopt. Just because the Father does not carry the child does not mean he is adopting. What a load of bulls**t. Fraud is fraud.
Instead of getting a new mother to sign an affidavit, why not do a paternity test. Then you have the cold hard facts.
After listening to this, every man should go to CVS and get a test kit right after the child is born. The key is to get out of it soon.
Paternity tests should be mandatory
The law should be DNA test at the birth of every child. Case closed
Family Court Lawyers will stand against this....
Paternity Fraud creates big $$$$$$ for judges.
No one care how whoever feel about how a guy must feel or respond to a child that’s not his . He wanna be disassociated from the mom and child . I think the mom is the bastard instead of calling the kid the bastard when married . It’s amazing how they wanna rationalize keeping the man in the trap .
All these lawyers don't want their cash cow money to end. And neither does the government. MONEY! MONEY! That's all it's about
Forcing a man to continue supporting a child after finding out it's not his because he has been 'standing in' as the father is the same as forcing a prisoner to continue serving a prison sentence after finding out he's innocent because he has been 'standing in' as the prisoner.
Government wants money. They don't care about justice.
The legal system needs those child support payments by any means possible because we all know by now that a good portion of those child support payment goes to the state. They could careless how many men they hurt.
As a starting point the birth certificate could be subtly reworded. The mother is obviously the mother (unless it's a donated egg) but she is "claiming" who the father is. Doing something discrete might open the statement to later challenge in court.
In many states it clearly states not to sign paternity unless you are SURE you are the father. I've known friends who've asked for a dna test before signing. it's caused some temporary problems in the relationship I bet, but we men need to take care of each other and not get caught in some bullshit.
@@blackopsrocks In my experience the one who tells you you don't need to. You need to.
I just heard about that guy's story yesterday. It's crazy what happened to him.
At no point do I hear the women facing any consequences for their lies and deceptions.
Making paternity fraud illegal would ensure this happens a whole lot less. Sure you'd have to imprison a fair amount of women today. However in the future, for the better, women would seriously be honest and more open about this. They would be reluctant to have another man sign that legally binding certificate. Even if that man is their husband!
It does not bother a judge a judge to refuse to allow a father to see his children at the word of a vindictive mother. What is the difference?
DNA testing needs to be federally implemented to be done immediately after birth
They man a 5:30 has no empathy for men who have been a victim of paternity fraud only the kids
No, you are only clarifying if the father is the actual father. The mother is always guaranteed in this equation. So you are not removing both parents. It is crazy that the law is so stupid and ignorant that you cannot test and correct a mistake.
As a woman i've never understood why paternity tests are not mandatory at birth before the father signs the birth certificate. Granted there are exceptions if you used a donor to conceive or you're adopting a child.
Starve the system gents... no cohabitation no children no marriage.. free yourself.
What’s up with guy #2? Bailed on his client because his didn’t like the guy. Seems like he is not sharing a story he can tell in whole.
The first guy was good, but the other lawyers are idiots.
This all comes down to accountability, which wmen aren't being held to. The recent SCOTUS decision will require women to be held accountable for their bad decisions and men to a lesser degree. Also men have been "trained" to accept that a woman could never lie about an issue like this. How many children from the times past were actually the offspring of the milkman or the postman? It has happened in the past and continues to happen to this day on through other means. How many of thise men were tricked into raising a child that wasn't his??? With current technology there is no valid reason for a man to have to pay for a child that isn't his! As I said people need to be held accountable. Women that cheat and those that she cheats with where a child results needs to be held accountable. Men that cheat on their wives need to be held accountable. Women that cheat and lie to their husbands need to be held accountable. Until laws are changed men will continue to walk away from women and society in general.
Forcing every embryo to term isn't holding anyone "accountable". What it does is force more men to become unwilling fathers. It forces more women to be unwilling mothers. It forces the victims of sexual violence to be saddled with their abusers and their abusers' baby. It forces kids into the world to parents who don't want them. It forces mothers who have serious medical complications during pregnancies into dangerous life-threatening situations.
Banning abortions literally helps no one. This is why all the countries that have abortion aren't clamouring to be like the States. We know better.
Unfortunately for everyone involved, this is why women come up missing. When these men can't get to the woman then in some cases they will eliminate the kids to get her back emotionally. Recently in my city a man who had supervised visitation and a hard way with the mother murdered his two girls and the state chaperone. Grievances create more grief. Fair play on both sides usually could avoid these all or nothing situations. Equality under the law means equal enforcement and equal consideration. If the law refuses to work for one side in particular then they will seek to go outside the law. Paternity fraud is akin to taxation without representation and there were revolutions fought over that worldwide. Remember, protect yourselves at all times, protect the children at all ages, and protect the family at all costs. Peace and power.
That's rare for a response from a man. Most men who can't handle it, and statistically that 99.999% simply leave. In fact its so stereotypical it's called "My dad went to get cigarettes and never came back." You are assuming men immediately resort to violence when learning this information. Its not true, it's grief. The one circumstance that makes a man's life and struggles feel satisfactory to him is seeing his children grow. If you learned your not raising your children and it's all a lie, it's grief. Rage? No. Just grief from a collapse of your coping mechanism. I would know.
@@blackopsrocks Wrong on all points. You did not comprehend the comment or information. I am speaking to those situations where there is no good faith mediation. I am speaking to the cases that are reported weekly in DV cases. I am not assuming that most men would react that way, I know most don't. I am speaking to when it does happen, and it does happen. Most folks write it off as a abusive man or senseless violence. No one is thinking to motive or circumstances that led to it. Same when these women come up missing, many say they don't get it without looking into her history or relationships. Most men statistically do not leave their families. Women file most of the divorces. That cliche of daddy left is the lie they have always chosen to tell rather than take responsibility. Most men are abandoned or kicked from the home. Women are in great numbers having children with only a small percentage of unwed men. By the numbers you are wrong. Go look up some demographic information.
What I was getting at is that everyone is shocked when this type of tragedy happens, but there was a pattern there before. It doesn't just happen because he doesn't want the kids to become proper adults and grow old. It usually comes from issues with the mother. I get you want to come off as defending the idea of the father as the protector or as the strong and silent type, but your comment spoke more to blaming the fathers for the situation. I was not trying to paint all men as the abuser. I was pointing out that good faith negotiations and equal consideration under the law can AVOID these types of events from happening. I have a psychological background and have worked in the field. Keep in mind, coping doesn't mean putting up with or letting injustice happen. It doesn't mean be silent and take it, or even run away from your problems. Coping means adjusting to circumstances in positive ways, seeking a healthy solution to your problems, and getting professional help if you can't handle it alone. No violence is not the answer, but neither is abandonment. Just living in misery and stuffing the pain away is not right either, it's a ticking time bomb. So don't be ignorant.
Don't fall for the propaganda. Don't reward bad behavior in women. Believe all women was a lie. Society needs to move away from this notion of all women as victims. This is an injustice, so if we care about justice should we also care about This? I am all for fathers in the role of protection, but society has removed this in favor of the woman as the culprit. The woman is the sole beneficiary of the current legal and assistance situation. The kids aren't protected and the men are totally deprived. Enough excuses. What did I mean by men protect yourselves? What did I mean by protect the children at all ages? What did I mean by protect the family at all costs? You are the one that has problems coping as you got immediately triggered by the mention of the possibility of violent acts. To ignore that possible outcome when a person looks for help and doesn't get it is folly. Did you not consider the mention of fraud? The comparison to taxation without representation and remember a revolution was fought about that. Do you really think that is off the table, in the midst of a gender war? The pendulum swings, don't take any of it lightly. It is not inconceivable when you consider that women in this country alone account for 60 million abortions, not including committing DV or murder of children. Fraud is fraud and should be prosecuted as such if the law is to be worth something. Dishonest women have destroyed the family institution in short time that thousands of years of male dominance did not. Don't be an enabler. Don't be a fool. Be a critical thinker. Peace.
@@bamjungle you went a very long ways to say I am wrong and then affirm my points dont you think? And you added context on things I never eluded to or affirmed myself. I cant converse with someone who attempts to command the debate with such willful ignorance. Next time, consider the opposing view is not adversarial and present any information you like they may not have considered previously. Proper decorum in discourse lacks maximum condenscenscion.
Grief is pain.
And if not dealt with, then pain becomes anger.
So my question in this situation is this;
"Everyone thinks children are sacred, everyone knows how to make another human, but the guy who was basically forced into economic slavery?
That is something there are only three ways out of."
Wow, that second lawyer is a POS. I think he dropped the case because lawyers have to practice in front of the same set of judges.
The judge probably loves ordering child support and getting kickbacks to the government.
If child support is stopped, then the government can't get kickbacks and the judge might be angry at them and retaliate. Then the lawyers won't win cases and their business will suffer.
I'm currently going through a divorce and my children are 16 and 21. Part of me wants to get a paternity test but at the same time just taking the test would destroy my boys mentally on some level. But if I need to I will get a test if she goes crazy with child support and visitation/custody but I don't know if she stays on the path of joint custody and no/minimal child support that we are currently on for the 16yo, I've changed his diapers to holding him when he has cried over school problems last year, emotionally at the least he will always be my boy😭. I f'n hate this 💩!
Just tell them you got them ancestry DNA kits.... Youll be able to tell on their website if you are their father and younever have to disclose the reason behind why you actually got it.
@@zig-dawg2600 all those companies will and do share their information with the government (with out warrants) among other things, not that I've done anything wrong. They've used Ancestry, I believe, profiles to catch criminals before without using a court order.
@@tauneutrino1able you think that paternity companies dont do the same with their DNA profiles ... If you want to know for sure, thats something you have to risk....
@@zig-dawg2600 you are correct on that, the only maybe possibility kinda sorta way would be for medical reasons and make a warrant required. My boys are old enough to know that if I'm checking there DNA during a divorce what I was doing, that's the BIG reason why I don't want to.
@@tauneutrino1able idk.... Kids are smart, but theyre also trusting of their parents. If you started talking about wanting to know your genetic background (even in the midsts of your divorce), im pretty sure your kids would take it at face value...unless youve given them reason not to, in the past
Multiple lawyers here said the states don't want to "bastardize" children when there are two parents, and yet this happens all the time in divorce. It's the norm for visitation rights to be removed from fathers. It's so normalized, many lawyers advise fathers NOT to challenge custody, as they will lose and make it worse for themselves.
Beyond maybe the 1st guy, these lawyers had horrible opinions about PF. It's easy to see why this is such an issue in the court system, when the people who are supposed to be defending you pretty much all think you should just "take one for the team" and raise or pay for a child that is known to not be yours. And what reason do they give for this HORRENDOUS opinion? Because you were lied to and defrauded by someone you should have trusted.
Wow - Back when Carnell came on the scene - early 2000's, he and I wrote back and forth. In fact, you might remember a professor, Melanie Jacobs, who wrote an amicus brief DEFENDING paternity fraud, and I wrote a response to her. It was written in one sitting, more of a rant, but I tore her argument apart, very logically, but it wasn't the nicely written paper I wish it was (it's still out there - someone PUBLISHED it ... grrr).
It's funny because at 53 years old, I just graduated law school - and one of my professors found my "paper" from 2003. Wow, this brings back memories.
So the remedy for not "bastardizing" a child is to attach "fatherhood" TO THE WRONG person?
So it is ok to bastardise the father and woman can sleep around and conduct paternity fraud
I am confused...WHY does it seem that the BIOLOGICAL FATHER gets off the hook. He gets to "hit & quit".
Everyone focus on the child, but, not the "scapegoat" man.
I get it...The child did not ask for this situation. BUT NEITHER DID THE INNOCENT MALE VICTOM.
DNA test should be mandatory at birth by law, NO matter what, even if parents are married.
In this way women would learn to respect themselves.
Also, in that way women would think twice about getting to bed with just any random guy.
Acting as or being the father to a child you thought was yours but was deceived. Why wont the courts make the woman find the man or face monetary penalties. Men do, we even get prison time
A lot of peoples kin theses situations ???…. not that everyone’s gonna come up front but, it has been proven that in all North America
1 out of 3 dad isn’t the real dad of the kid(s) and even if you make women swear , we all know they’re gonna lied anyway
The classic one is the kid who got hit by a car, and needed bone marrow to survive, the dad step up right away and said take what you want from me, but after testing him they said to him he wasn’t compatible, he was stunned and didn’t understood anything,????
And the wife ran away crying without saying anything, now the dad was seeing his wife running away without saying him anything, and she came back later with the neighbour and he was the real dad of the kid, but her husband had raised paid and did everything for this child who was something like 9 year old……..so for 9 year, the guy had think that was his kid but in reality she was banging the neighbour !!!!!🤯🤯🤯
Don’t forget….. 1 out of 3 ???…
Yeah that number 1 in 3 is probably too high.
This because of selection bias in the test group.
Most people who do a paternity test have a suspicion of fraud. They want to either prove or disprove paternity.
As such the group that asks for such tests is skewed towards higher incidence of the happening.
Compare this to the number of people carrying an umbrella when its autumn and cloudy.
If you count in two countries Uk and Chad. You will find the the incidence is much higher in the UK than in Chad. So to make global conclusions from either one of these countries would be skewed data.
Does it happen outside the tests, yes, of course.
But it will be lower. I have seen 1 in 5 but other numbers can be possible, 1 in 3 would be a ceiling.
Fraud is Fraud. Family Courts should be Article III courts subject to the same standards.
Lived this 30 years No words !!!! Good luck
Non-biological fathers should never be allowed to accept parental responsibilities without a paternity test. He can make any choice he wants after he knows the truth.
When a woman commits paternity fraud, she has defrauded at least three people and probably a lot more.
Child, father, husband, father's siblings and parents, husband's siblings and parents, etc.
The mother tells the child two lies:
The mother lies that her husband is the child's father.
The mother lies about who the child's real father is.
Marriage doesn't include a get-out-of-jail-free card. The woman who commits paternity fraud should face much harsher penalties than most other fraud cases. The catastrophic devastation that results from paternity fraud to the children and father is so much worse than mere money fraud.
If the man knows he isn't the biological father before hand but takes on the role i have 0 issue with that. He made the choice knowing that and respectable to do it but when he is told its his when its not that should be pure fraud.
It’s not like judges are incentivized by the federal government to get maximum child support verdicts by the federal government matching an amount based on child support collected and using that money to fund judges pensions and retirements. That would be utterly ridiculous and a conflict of interest invalidating all those judges.
It goes beyond the parents. What about the extended family? Sue the biological father.
if DNA can set a wrongfully convicted person free and entitle them to compensation for being wrongfully held accountable, it should do the same for men that are victims of paternity fraud.
How is it a tough case? They literally rip kids from homes all the time and put them in foster care
//: Every few years DNA paternity test should be done.
Why every few?.... All you need is just one
I'm glad these lawyers recorded these clips...we know who and which firms to never hire for any law services whatsoever now.
Parentage is not limited to biology, but paternity is all about biology
I KNOW Carnell Smith! GREAT GUY! The State of California (I was NOT a resident) FORCED me to pay Child Support since 1992 to a California woman against my DEMANDING DNA but back in 1991. She told me she was 1 month pregnant when I met her and she then started telling people "I" was the father. Since 91 I never set foot in California and EVERYWHERE I went to try to get a DNA they (Hospitals and clinics) demanded upwards of $9,000 up front! An impossible figure to raise. NOW, here we are, 33 years later and California STILL demands child support for a 32 y.o. man. I CAN NOT FIND AN ATTORNEY TO TAKE THIS CASE! LOOKING FOR AN ATTORNEY WITH BACKBONE in this matter!
A married couple, both white, had a black child. The man left his wife. Later, a DNA verified that he was indeed the father. Both he and his wife had a black gene and they produced a black child. They reunited.
An Old timer once told me about how women only want two accounts from you… 1. your sperm count and 2. your bank account. Once they get the first one… what is the only one left
Why is paternity fraud the only type of fraud that's legal? Perhaps it's because of the gynocentric family court system and the fact that wmn aren't held accountable for their actions.
The best thing any man can do is deny the child and force the mother to prove it’s his. There is simply no other way to deal with women.
It’s also domestic abuse in addition to financial fraud.
Women (and judges) know what they are doing and absolutely do not want the laws changed.
The issue is that some / many women these days have little loyality to a man, it surprises me that men fall into traps that women set. Of course he should ask for proof that a child is his, we must get over the idea of trusting women to be loyal in bedroom matters, our society has changed, women have changed.
DNA test should be mandatory by law
The second lawyer should raise the child financially if he "feels" that bad and does not like his client for feeling aggrieved at being lied to and defrauded. The emotional connection to the child is an issue for his client to work out not for the lawyer to judge him.
Rule 1: Before even beginning any kind of physical relationship with a woman, talk to her about dna testing and things like that. If she will not willingly consent to those kinds of trust affirming measures prior to starting a sexual relationship, don't bother starting one and move on.
Rule 2: Make sure you are PRESENT and ON SITE when the child is born. In many locations the woman can sign a man's name on the birth certificate without him even knowing and, according to many laws, he will be the legal father of the child regardless of any dna connection as long as his name is on the birth certificate. If you are on site then it's much less likely for anyone to put your name on any documents without your knowledge.
Rule 3: Order the dna test BEFORE you sign ANYTHING. Putting your name on anything related to the child before the dna test is done can still in many locations make you the legal father of the child.
If you have read these rules and don't follow any of them, then any legal action taken against you in the case of paternity fraud is most likely to not rule in your favor and in many cases the court will still not take action against the woman because of "the best interests of the child".
most of thies lawyers need disbarred for turning down clients with lawful claims
Make paternity tests mandatory. As soon as the baby comes out of the womb, IMMEDIATELY do the DNA test with the man whom the pregnant woman claims to be the father, if not sooner.
In a real fair society would be VERY SIMPLE: in case of divorce, who's parenting the child take the right to parenting, who is the biological father has the duty to pay support.