PRR J1's and Santa Fe 2-10-4's at Sandusky, Ohio (1956)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Video of Sandusky, OH in the summer of 1956 when Pennsy leased Santa Fe 2-10-4 engines to help with a surge in traffic. This is a really great video with lots of great scenes of both of these engine types.
Footage from "Steam and Diesel on the PRR. Vol. II" by Herron Rail Video
www.herronrail....
My dad was a fireman on the Pittsburgh Division from 1950 - 1954. His stories of the J 1 locomotives were in part what made the J my all time favorite Pennsylvania Railroad steam locomotive. By the way, I was three years old when I ran my first diesel locomotive on the hump yard at Shire Oaks just outside of Pittsburgh.
My you started earlier than most 🤔🤣
Mark, did anyone get a picture of you in the drivers seat?
When the Sante Fe "Texas' were in use on the Sundusky Branch I was up into the 5011. They were well ballanced and well timed high speed and pullers not offered in any other 2-10-4. I loved those memories.
The opening shot blew my mind. Two huge steam engines, lurking on a siding. Such huge macines with simple steam generated power. Unbelievable but true.
Great video!
Thank you.
P.j.signs Carpinteria Ca
A big treat! I remember watching these PRR and AT&SF 2-10-4s, single- and double-headed, passing near my boyhood home in Columbus on their way to Sandusky with long coal drags. What a surprise in 1956 to suddenly see Santa Fe engines on the Pennsy!
All of the sounds I added to this video were recorded by Don Krofta's friend Jim Hawk at the time Don was shooting the film. They are accurate for the locomotives you see. Buy the DVD and you'll find a lot more PRR action. Also, I'm sorry to report that Don Krofta passed away in February, 2011. His great films live on in the 16 DVD's we've released of his films on PRR, NYC, NKP, B&O, Western diesels with more to come in the future. -J R Herron, Herron Rail Video.
What is name of the music in the beginning?
That very last part, that whistle, holy crap that gives me chills!!
3:22 that bell spin though
where?
That bell spinning? lol i noticed that too on the DVD. got a laugh out of me
You spin me right round baby
On Santa Fe 5035
for the silent movie era.
This is great stuff! 5 star rating for sure. PRR's passenger and J1 locomotive whistle pitch is among the most haunting of all. Thanks for posting what turned out to be the last hurrah for the AT&SF 5000s.
Here I am..in May 2021..in England..I have a ho J1 with all the sounds..got it about 8 years ago off a guy in our club.I also have Pennsy cds plus others.
I watch this most days...what amazing scenes..I suppose none of these tracks still exist?..Wonderful stuff...passing thru Tiffin...David.
Actually David, most of these tracks do survive as the main lines of Norfolk Southern today. The coal dock [as referred to in the video] is still standing north of Marion, Ohio. However it's long since been decommissioned.
The PRR mainline in the closing shot is now operated by the Seneca County Port Authority and connects with CSX Transportation in Woodville, Ohio.
I love the Atsf rr 5011 class 2-10-4 locomotives & this is excellent footage of their final days of operation. The class 5011's are my favorite type of Santa Fe rr steam locomotives along with their 2900/ 3776 class 4-8-4 types.
Awesome machines , the ATSF 5011 class locomotives are favorites of mine.
Same
I was a frustrated Penny fan in 1956. Pennsy dieselized Chicago in 1952. I was too young to travel that far at the time while reading about all kinds of Pennsy steam activity a few hundred miles away. The Pennsy trains stopped at the signal behind my house in Englewood waiting to cross the Rock Island.
I subscribed to this channel is because it shows my favorite steam locomotives that I want to restore and put back into service.
I always loved AT&SF steam. I'm so glad that AT&SF saved 5 of their 2-10-4s!
They did?
@@Nr2003Guy One is in St Louis, Dallas, Houston, Albuquerque. The prototype 5000 "Madam Queen" is in Amarillo.
@@MP339RV yes I should have said Palestine east of Waco south of Dallas
I hope they restore one to running condition.
5021 is back as well.
5021 is no longer in New Mexico and has not been since at least 1984. the locomotive now resides at the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, California.
The J-1's and 5001 class Santa Fe were some of greatest steamers ever built. I sure wish they would restore and run the one at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania
The railroad musuem of Pennsylvania has no operating locomotives and there’s no J1s in existence
The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has neither a J1 or a 5000 class. Regarding restoration to operation, the same reason we won't see 1223 and 7001 or 460 or even 6755 running is because the Pennsylvania state that owns the collection wants to keep their material as it originally was, in blueprint specs. Restorations would require their boilers to be altered, which in turn keeps them away from their "original" material condition.
Maybe one day a new one will be built from scratch. They are building a new T-1 4-4-4-4 duplex from the ground up, so you never know.
It’s possible that all of the Pennsylvania J1’s were scrapped but however there are rumors that there is one of them still in existence which is No. 6435 but this hasn’t been confirmed. It’s possible again that all of them were scrapped but if there is at least one that still survives I think it would be awesome!!
The 5001s I believe survived
East meets west. What a cool and unique set of clips. Quite the rare capture.
Mr . D we can always expect the best in videos from you ... Thanks for the memories.
All of The Pennsylvania J1s were gone by the end of 1959, 5 Santa Fe 2-10-4s preserved.
Yes 5 have been preserved but none in operational status. #5034 should be readied for the road once more along with her companion 4-8-4 #2925. Santa Fe was always Proud of their Steamers. Santa Fe Lives Forever!
5 Santa Fe 2-10-4s preserved.
5021 is in Sacremento. 5034 was scrapped.
Yes, #5021 was saved from scrapyard and #5034 was scrapped in 1959.
Cool, there is a way to tie my SF and PRR together on my layout and that's 1950s Ohio.
those engine's were massive, my compliments sir
Awesome video. I had the fortune to ride this behind n&w j 611.
I bought this from the SEPTA gift shop not too long ago. highly recommend it! its a shame all the J1s were scrapped.
Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions there maybe hope there's big rumors that there is one j1 that was never recorded for scrap
WildTexan Engineer
man alive that would be a coup de grace for engineering.
next poser, precisely WHERE could something that big be stashed?, not likely she'd be tucked away in a barn someplace.
Bill Porter acccording to the Internet its buried near Pittsburgh
WildTexan Engineer is that so? are you sure there could be 1 left? if you are correct then I must board a Pennsylvanian and find out myself
the basic information you need to know about this J1 that it wasn't recroded on the list of scrapped PRR engines and its buried next to the pitcarin yard on the pittsburgh divison
Great clip. Brings back memories of steam😎
😮 no way dude seriously whoa man awesome you know I used to have a great great great grandfather that used to work for the railroad of union pacific and I don't know what happened to him I sure miss him so much 😊
@pbmja Good to hear that about Don-I hope he's still doing well. I remember reading a very interesting article in Trains mag as a youngster 30 yrs ago by him about the NYC top trains detouring thru his hometown of (I believe) Fremont. I also loved his still photos of the NYC passing through Fremont that I just loved, & his comments & observations. (I still have the link somewhere!) I feel he was 1 of the 1st hard core railfans. Please pass on my best to him from Mitch in Massillon OH.
😮 no way dude seriously whoa man awesome you know I used to have a great great great grandfather that used to work for the railroad of union pacific and I don't know what happened to him I sure miss him so much
The PRR J-1 was an awesome locomotive. Sort of the opposite of the "Super Power"concept- these had smaller drivers, designed to develop maximum horsepower at average track speeds for freight. And the booster engine in the trailing truck gave an extra 15,000 pounds of starting TE, bringing the total to 110,000 pounds. UP's 844 (a Super Power 4-8-4 Northern) only has a TE of 63,750 with her 80" drivers, and is 300,000 pounds heavier. Decapods rule!
Mark Stockman They had 69 inch drivers which were pretty standard on super power locomotives that pulled freight. It's a good balance for a locomotive that needs to move fast but also haul a heavy train.
J1’s were developed using a superpower design, not at all accurate to your statement
Sadly, because the PRR borrowed the basic design from the C&O by wartime necessity, and so considered it not a true Pennsy engine. NONE were saved! What a narrow-minded attitude considering what a monumental job the J1 did for that railroad.
The Bessemer and Lake Erie 2-10-4's were pretty mean machines too... weren't terribly fast, but they literally built America.
It is strange that the prototype 5000 Texas type was never photographed yet ran 1.7 million miles across the plains for over 20 years.
Um, are you sure about that chief? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-10-4#/media/File:ATSF_5000_Madam_Queen.jpg. That is just one of many photos out there they aren't that hard to find.
well, to quote der Trump
" it's huuuuge!", finishing up a dissection of a local hero here in Tulsa, those big ol' pennsy engines always looked neat with the drop coupler, the overall largesse, and the lowrider tender, I gotta get the full CD so I can stop and look closely
Those engineers has nerves and balls of steel.
One of my favorite vids, had no idea Santa Fe was hired to help PRR move freight back in the day.
The Santa Fe was heavily into diesels by this time and the 5000s were pretty much surplus power, so they leased the engines to the Pennsy for filler power until the new diesels were on the Pennsy.
@@frankwurth5375
really???... i did wonder what the circumstances were surrounding ATSF pooling power in 1956... especially since it wasn't common practice for the railroads to do that back then like they do today
@@25mfdIt's all about making money. 😉
@@johnknippenberg-LandmarkYards
that is true
Few years before me. I was born in 65. By the time I came along most of the fire breathing iron dragons were asleep or out to pasture. Very few survived. And all the streetcars went away and got replaced by stinky busses. That happened during my childhood. I saw some of it happening. The B&O mainline ran right past my aunt and uncle's house. I used to watch the trains go by. I went on the American Freedom Train in 76. Nothing is how it used to be anymore. They tore down the old neighborhoods and replaced them with yuppified townhouses and strip malls. Gentrification. They call it progress. I call it disgusting.
I may be an early 2000's kid but i agree.
THAT IS QUITE IRONIC!!
HAULING COAL WITH OIL FIRED STEAM!!!
LOL LOL
If you have Direct TV go to the RFD channel they have a show called Train & Locomotives it comes on every Monday at 6:00pm, they have shown this one already and I always record every episode.
That Santa Fe 2-10-4 5011 Texas steam locomotive number 5018 that's my favorite train
Im 55 years old and when I was around 3 or 4 years old my mom would walk me and my little brother to the railroad tracks and the street we lived on to be waiting for my moms uncle driving his steam locomotive and we all would be waving to each other and I loved the old swinging railcrossing ding ding ding with one red blinking light in the middle.before they came up with the crossing gates you see today
donld is still alive i talk to him 2 or 3 times a year he was the master
I would totally wish the Pennsylvania railroad j1 2-10-4 would have been preserved because I like the design and of course the j1 would have been a perfect sole survivor and I though a place that the j1 would be displayed at the railroad museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg Pennsylvania
Well there was a couple attempts of saving a prr j1 from a few stories i heard and supposedly we have one buried under a active NS mainline since 6435 wasn’t on the list to be sold or scrapped.
Got anymore videos of ATSF or UP or SP steam from Herron Rail?
Now this is better than Cedar point
St. Louis has the Arch, NYC has the Statue of Liberty, D.C. has The Washington Monument that's another landmark, and to me Cedar Point is not only a theme park but a Landmark in Sandusky because It's known as the roller Coaster Capital of the World.
Красивые паровозы! Восхищаюсь мощью!
Actually..the Loco number on my J1 is
6418..the same loco number on one of the shots in the film.The one where the loco is leaving the coal Dock.
My favorite steam locomotive was the N&W Y6 pusher
i think the j1's were the most impressive non articulated engines ever built!
Mechanically, the PRR J1's were identical to the C&O's T-1 class 2-10-4s. In 1958 most of them were gone with only 25 of the remaining. They would hang on for another years before being scrapped in 1959. It's just such a shame that non made to preservation.
No Kevin. The 9000 class was impressive in power for the Union Pacific. The 9000 class was impressive because of its wheel arrangement. Its wheels were in a arrangement that is 4-12-2. Wich was impressive!
The Pennsylvania in their haste to diesel eyes had stopped shopping steam engines with the intention of there being scrapped so they had to lease engines from to Santa Fe while they were waiting for brand new diesels to be delivered from the various manufacturer. Before the war Pennsylvania engines were spotless and well taken care of and after the war they were treated like a bunch of dirty pigs. Their attitude was widespread money on something that you're going to scrap of course after dieselization 10 years later they were broke.
ilove these giants iwas only 3 years old when they where incolumbus
The different version of the Santa Fe steam locomotive number 5020 like Santa Fe number 5018 has a short smokestack maybe the rest of all the Santa Fe 2-10-4 steam locomotives can have a short smokestack and probably those other Santa Fe steam locomotives like the 3700s 2700s 3400s and the 3800s with all the rest of the Santa Fe steam locomotives too cause would be totally awesome man sweet and wicked cool dude
cool stuff!
Is this an excerpt from "Indian Summer of Steam?"
The AT&SF didn't run trains into Sandusky, OH. The PRR leased a few 2-10-4s from the AT&SF to handle the unexpected spike in freight traffic in the area. It was cheaper than bringing their own steamers back into service and the 2-10-4s of the AT&SF were comparable to the J-1s in tractive effort.
Thanks for that explanation. I wondered why Santa Fe was in OH. Lol.
I was thinking the same thing. I was used to them being on the now BNSF Transcon on the Abo Canyon between Oklahoma and New Mexico
What a treasure.
1:53 you know the train game bell
Amazing!
in heaven there is still steam-traffic!
Sound must be from something else because at 2:50 you see it go over a diamond but there is no noise...
0:52, I don't know if this is a sign to all of you that the locomotive is a living beast, but to me it sounded like it just snorted like a horse.
0:52
The Santa Fe 210 4S were my favorite Santa Fe steam locomotive. I have an issue of trains magazine with a whole thing on the Santa Fe 210 4S. It said in the magazine that the Pennsylvania Railroad Cruise preferred the Santa Fe 210 4S over the j1's saying that they rode better. Such a sin that all of those engines with serviceable Decades of life left in them were scrapped. Along with them a whole way of life and a slew of prosperous jobs a slice of America dead.
Who is Don who was mentioned near the end?
dont forget that prr J1 s were more or less direct copies of the c&o T1
Pennsy 6435 might be buried somewhere in a yard in Pennsylvania no record of that engine was identified as scrap
Bro 5035’s bell was spinning 360 degress
I wonder if these tracks were removed...
No, they sold the line to N&W in 1964. It's still there today and in heavy use.
certified BANGER
Were any pennsy or C&O J1s preserved?
Sadly, no. But on the bright side, 4 Santa Fe 5011 class Texas types have been preserved, 5011, 5017, 5021 and 5030. Plus another Santa Fe Texas type is also preserved, Madam Queen 5000.
There is also one J1 no 6435 that's buried near Pittsburgh, Other than that non survive sadly.
@@Railhog2102I live near the Pitcairn yards. Is that true or just a rumor?
@randyoehling303 Yup and it could be there or not who knows but if we still have a warbaby that would be brilliant
The PRR firemen had to be trained to fire the oil burning Santa Fe engines.
I believe it was the last time the Santa Fe engines ran.
ATSF steam was called out for the fall rushes as late as 1957
The 3751 had that problem until they put on the Y wings on the bell top to stop it.
Were the AT&SF locos oil or coal fired?
the AT&SF locos are oil fired
sclm046 oil fired
Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions Engines 5000-5035.
what I would wish that the prr s1,s2,J1,q1,q2,and T1 would be hauling freight and passenger in 2017, won't that be nice?
MetraFanIllinoisBoy 777 true
Does anyone know what the classicla music piece is that is used throughout this video? It's used at length when they are showing a J-1 and a Texas tpye early in the video? Thanks
1:07 this guy is spitting wtf
Anyone know the name of the song?
Too bad none of those J1s were saved. Those are easily my favorite Pennsy steamers after the T1s.
It surprises me they didn't save a T1..
I assume the J1 wasn’t a candidate for preservation because it wasn’t PRR’s original built locomotive.
Awesome Don Krofta videos and Ray Herron production! Does anyone know the classical tune used as background music from the beginning of this clip through the 58 second mark? I spoke with Ray Herron, he edited it, but it was years ago, he didn't recall. All help will be appreciated!
That coal tower near Marion Ohio is still there
I hope the 2-10-4 Steam Engines will be restored and returned to service.
David Reyz.... There are 5 of AT&SF 5000's that are cosmetically restored.. none are operational..... and ALL of the PRR's J1's were scrapped between 1958 & 1959..... Most Unfortunately!
Silly Question : Just what is that little shack at the rear of the Tender for?
On some locomotives, the brakeman would sit in the "doghouse" and keep an eye out for trouble on the train.
and before the air brakes came along run down the tops of the cars when the engineer gave the whistle signal to set or release the brakes NOT my idea of a good job. just think your in an ice storm what is the cat walk going to look like
Flipping bell 🔔 hahahaha XD 3:22
This Berkshire lookin' engine is so good at pulling heavy freights
This deserve an preservation
The J-1 War Babies were 2-10-4s based on the C&O T-1 2-10-4s.
@@JessicaKasumi1990 And the C&O T-1 was based on the Van Sweringen Advisory Mechanical Committee Berksire design with a few modifications.
its a shame that all 125 J1s were gone by 1957 :(
The KV-2 Fan All of them were scrapped in 1959
I have the original 1950 brand new Pennsylvania Railroad spike
oh they are in color, monsters from a more industrial age in america, and when big power was still used, too bad soo many classes went extinct, they really made the power and did better then diesle electros ever did even today at speed, diesles have good low end torque but the upper end of their power only goes so far, a steamer though the opposite is true the harder you work it the hotter the fire and the better it makes steam, and with instant power at 2000 fps from the valve to the pistons according to Garry Bensmen from the fort wayne historical railroad.
also back in the steam era they had lots of shops lots and lots of facilites to keep and run the locos, now there is soo little that make up a yard unless its one of the rare ones that have a roundhouse and inspection facilities and or a hump yard.
That coal dock is still there.
Yo in modern day they need 3 diesel to pull that long train
They need to bring back the steam in a big way. It's still viable.
it's nostalgically viable... but not economically viable
I wish that I could drive that locomotive you know Santa Fe 2-10-4 #5018
🙏👍💕
why dont AT&SF restore the 2-10-4?
Because AT&SF doesn't exist anymore. The California State Railroad Museum is currently working on restoring a 4-8-4 and a 2-10-4, numbers 2925 and 5021.
I have a Pennsylvania Railroad spike
3:32 yo wtf is wrong with that bell 😂
why were so many Santa Fe engines doing freight work in Ohio? Santa Fe never had tracks in Ohio!
To cover a loco shortage, the pen railroad found that it was cheaper to bring in atsf machines than resurrect their own Locomotives from the withdrawn / scrap line.
3:22 I like to SpEEeeEn
The pennsy copied the 2 10 4 design from the Chesapeake and Ohio railroad
That was because of wartime restrictions prohibiting them to development a new locomotive design and were desperate to have a one to pull freight and military equipment. So they moved to Plan B by borrowing a 2-6-6-4 Class A of the N&W and a 2-10-4 from the C&O. Both locomotives underwent extensive testing and the PRR chose the C&O 2-10-4 to be produced and in total they built 125 of their own 2-10-4's which was very impressive. They may have been mechanically identical to the C&O's T-1 class 2-10-4s but the J1's proved to such reliable engines to handle anything given to them.
would that be a fairly complete engine?,or resting in peices?.
have a little bit of history on the class, according to what I have on reference, she' d be a big ol' girl.
Sandusky, Ohio is where Cedar Point is.
1:56
Ytp be pennsy "steam engines r 4 nerds, scrap'em"
Also pennsy: leases steam engines from atsf
Born 40 years too late.
imean columbus ohio
why do you guys always play music only steam engines why do people want to hear the chugging of a steam locomotive not the stupid music then you've got to talk during the engine noise also
Thank God, all this steam locomotive garbage was cut apart in 1955 & 1956! The best thing that could ever happened to all of it!
yep he is a real cockroach living off the very country that was built by those steam locomotive garbage I just wonder if all those freebees would be there if the steam locomotive garbage would not have been built I don't think so and the cockroaches would die!!!!!!
Cockroach Scientists are considering how to bring back steam engines with modern fueling technology, because they are actually more fuel efficient at speeds above 40mph than diesels are.
www.extremetech.com/extreme/148416-are-steam-cars-poised-for-an-epic-comeback
Right and I have some ocean front property in AZ for sale cheap Ger Desoto
Jacob w The steam turbine is the only hope for steam any longer! All that reciprocating valving & driving linkage is dead weight worthy of a good scrap yard! This article is just one person's idea of what will happen because that is what they want to see. But steam technology for transportation locomotion will never return. It is dead & belongs in the foundry induction furnace crucibles! It is garbage! Destroy it!
Cockroach When Oil is too expensive, or when environmentalists get their way, it may be the only technology that is viable because it can burn less polluting energy sources. Honestly, the gasoline/diesel engine is a lot less energy efficient than steam engines. And good luck with trying to get an electric hybrid into a locomotive. It simply wont happen.