HELLO TO ALL NINJA AND SAMURAI ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. HE ONLY RECEIVES NOTIFICATIONS FOR NEW COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
Some of the "9" are more "manual complete" and solid than others. Some are associated with other earlier of the 9. Some of the 9 are branch schools of more govt legit Koryu. These are techniques and notes handed down from people who survived. Gyokko, Koto, Kukishin, Shinden Fudo, and Yoshin Ryu are generally solid if used well. Teachers like the aforementioned D. Bartram can fairly effectively teach the more closed door kind of stuff. "Soke" is a cult of personality. Some of his older students who became teachers are much more hands on. Now some are going to be connected with particular books. Good enough. Each lineal set of tech was based around schools of thought, "tactically and operationally". It is probably for the best that one underestimates the students of a school because of the tourists that show up in the most public places and act goofy but pay for keeping the lights on.
The old man is a very intelligent man. The fact that he split the traditions in this way proves it. I am an old student of Ninjutsu and the first time I saw it in 1986 in Paris by Sylvain Guintard( i trained with Bo munthe Stephen Hayes Dan Waxman ..Doron Navon..) it made a terrible impression on me. The truth is that later growing up within the system I had my doubts and understood that not everything follows a traditional family ryu ha. This does not mean that techniques they are not real or not practical. The way of teaching has changed as a result of attracting more people worldwide to the Bujinkan community. This means profit, glory and money at the end of the day. Even today, although I'm not a daily practicer of the art, I have to state that from all the martial arts I've done, the techniques always maintain this primordial physiology of the human body when it really fights. And that alone is important.....
The kumogakure Ryu Ninpo soke will be giving a seminar in Frankfurt May 26-28. The other two Ninpo schools are Togakure Ryu Ninpo and Gyokkoshin Ryu Ninpo
If I remember reading correctly a good portion of the 9 schools including the 4 major ones that are most associated with the Bujinkan (Gyokkõ Ryū, Koto Ryū, Togakure Ryū and Takagi Yoshin Ryū) were absorbed into what Takamatsu's Grandfather, Toda, had learned when he inherited the 32nd sokeship of the Togakure Ryū. Whether or not Takamatsu learned both Shinden Fudõ Ryū and Kukishin Ryū (which later became Kukishinden Ryū) from another outside source I am not sure of. As far as other Schools in the Bujinkan, they might have had other names before being "inherited" by Takamatsu. For example, I remember some years ago, one of the high ranking Sensei had stated that when asked about Gikan Ryū Koppõjutsu, that the Gikan Ryū was basically the same thing as Asayama Ichiden Ryū Bujutsu, that had been renamed Gikan Ryū at some point.
I attend a ninpo taijutsu class basically it’s Genbukan. The highest belt in my class is a Brown White stripe he is pretty good but he’s been there 12 yrs. How could Hatsumi get Grand master ship in 9 Ryu ha in 15 yrs.
I learned some Kumogakure Kata from a long time top Stephen Hayes student back in my Bujinkan / To-Shin Do days. As far as I’ve been shown, it is suppose to involve double knife (tantô) techniques, hooks mounted on staffs (to hook up horseman), spiked clubs etc. If you watch the oldest Bujinkan videos available, there is some moves that is close to what I learned. I asked the question why the school isn’t taught more and, for what is worth, the answer was : because this is not something close to self defense anymore, this is more about how to murder.
@@danny761 There is a clear lack of evidence about the Shinobi affiliation claim and if you read historical Shinobi scrolls, that doesn’t fit. But at the same time, one can still enjoy the pure martial art part. Hayes is a great teacher and a very charismatic person. But I don’t believe Bujinkan / To-Shin Do to be part of any real Ninja unbroken lineages anymore. At the same time, the self defence techniques are still good.
How come Hayes students teach Kumogakure Ryu Kata when even the Japanese do not teach them. Strange, huh? Heard Hayes also hands out Kukishin Ryu certificates, although he himself has no menkyo or rank in this Ryuha. 😆
@@user-lq2yi8op7w not that strange. As I said earlier, the oldest videos of Hatsumi Sensei showed a glimpse of what I have been taught and very similar techniques. Those techniques seem to have disappeared from most Bujinkan curriculum when the switch from Ninpo Taijutsu to Budo Taijutsu occurred (maybe even before that). As Mr. Hayes trained during the early Ninpo Taijutsu Hatsumi era, he probably learned that knowledge and pass it down to his closest students. I assure you it is not white belt material, more of black belts complementary studies. Again, learning two knifes wielding and spiked hooks / clubs is not self defense anymore, it is murder. Now, that being said, is it Ninjutsu? I don’t believe so anymore. But still, that was fun to learn.
Takamatsu ended up with everything... through a couple relatives... much like Scott Rodell with the Michuan sword stuff in Tai Chi... Hatsumi seems to be one of the few people who actually cared about what was going on with Takamatsu...et voila
I heard that before his wife passed she changed her hair to purple as that was a color used in Japan to symbolize or associate with her illness. After his wife passed, hatsumi changed his hair to purple as a memorial to her.... Don't know how true this is but thought I would throw it out there.
Unquestionably legitimate koryu --> Takagi Yoshin ryu and Kukishinden. You can also throw Asayama Ichiden ryu and Masaki ryu in there too, since some kata and techniques are taught in some Bujinkan circles too. Questionable, but possibly legitimate ----> Gyokko ryu, Koto ryu, Gikan ryu, and Shinden Fudo ryu. There's a hypothesis thrown around that Takamatsu may have invented Koto ryu and Gyokko ryu based off what he learned in China. I don't think THAT is farfetched. EXTREMELY questionable -----> Togakure ryu ninjutsu, Kumogakure ryu ninjutsu, Gyokushin ryu ninjutsu. Togakure ryu looks like a blend of the taijutsu from the other schools above, Kukishinden weaponry, material from Ito Gingetsu books, and some bits and pieces from historical ninjutsu documents; Kumogakure ryu isn't even seen. Supposedly, it looks like Togakure ryu, but the specialty weapon is a kamayari...which may have still came from Kukishinden, lol; Gyokushin ryu ninjutsu has sutemi waza and some hojojutsu techniques. It should be noted that there's a legitimate koryu jujutsu school called Gyokushin ryu.
@@AntonyCummins Yeah Takagi yoshin ryu which is a branch of the main one. and kukishinden ryu which Takamatsu was said to be a master from the Kuki family. To the best of my understanding Gyokko and Koto Ryu were created with Takamatsu. No proof for anything before him. I think Shinden fudu ryu might also be legit So my sensei tells me.
I’m wondering if it’s a pride thing. Hatsumi is in his sun set years and he doesn’t wan to have to face the fact that he has to give it up to a successor.
You forgot that perhaps he is saving the 1 to be given the Bujinkan itself with all the weapons, monies, scrolls, etc. This I think will happen. The Bujinkan itself has become a Ryu Ha.
Why does Antony always seem to give his two cents worth in on the Bujinkan? (Like he’s some sort of samurai guru authority on it) He doesn’t practice it anymore, probably didn’t make it higher than 4th Kyu , has done everything in his power to disrespect Soke Hatsumi for attention and views. He should leave it alone and just stick to what he’s good at, writing history books.
@@AntonyCummins I understand that, however its the way its presented. Some of the vids were delivered in opinioned, arrogant and disrespectful ways and could have been delivered in more professionally imo. I don’t know why you don’t just stick to being a historian. Your books are good and the content is interesting enough. No need to put down others. Remember, Shinobi no mono are supposed to endure and keep silent about certain things. 😂
"it's" And I don't find "arrogant". It's obvious that Hatsumi is a fraud who profited from the ninja hype in the 70s to create his cult/school based on a blend of pop culture and what he learned from Takamatsu. Respect is the default position, and while indoctrinated people deserve it cult leasers don't.
He isn't doing it for attention. He is, now, at this point, seeking actual academia about something he was ALWAYS interested in. Bujinkan claimed (and still claims) to be a real and historic offshoot of that interest and study. As such, he is still, to this day, asked questions about the the organization by people also interested in the true history of ninja and samurai. He has an obligation to comment on the bujinkan in the first place due to their claims relating to his academic interests. But he also has a responsibility as an author to respond to his readers about what these things. I understand a lot of people dislike him because Bujinkan (amd I speak from experience) is a cult-like group that imagines itself the last true school of warriors in the modern age, and not supporting that pisses people off. But I doubt he is clout chasing like so many believe. He is connected to actual academics at Mie University. He is recognized as a real authority by ACADEMICS in the west while opinion is shifting that Hatsumi is a fraud. He hasnt had to chase clout because the truth, as searched out by academics, has naturally come to light because of the work of JAPANESE SCHOLARS, not Antony's efforts to TRANSLATE that information.
It 's one helluva move, but for different reasons. Every new Soke has the right to alter his own ryuha. At the same time every new Soke holds Menkyo Kaiden in some or all of the rest ryuha, which means that they are also part of them. 8 new Soke interconnected with each other, allies to move forward in the 21st century. A brilliant move indeed, which secures their further expansion.
As far as I can remember, the only two schools in Bujinkan that might have some provable connection to proper koryu are Kukishinden Ryu and Takagi Yoshin Ryu. Both of them exist outside of Bujinkan and are proven to be legitimate koryu without a shadow of a doubt. However, versions of those schools taught within Bujinkan are somewhat questionable. Bujinkan's Takagi Yoshin Ryu might very well be legitimate koryu, or at least close to it, as there is unmistakable similarity between it and the several branches of Hontai Yoshin Ryu, a legitimate koryu. According to the Bujinkan canon, Takagi Yoshin Ryu split from Hontai Yoshin Ryu in the 1840s, so if we take thir word at face value, which I don't know that we should, would make their branch of Takagi Yoshin Ryu a koryu by a VERY NARROW margin. Kukamishin Ryu (the official name of the mainline of Kukishinden Ryu as of several years ago) is a school that Takamatsu unquestionably was a part off, albeit not in the mainline. The line they train with is not a member of any governing body that recognises koryu but they do allegedly maintain communication with the mainline so take that for what it's worth. He was appointed a menkyo kaiden in the school, and though some do claim that he was officially named soke too, Bujinkan never provided a proof for that. Additionally, the lineage provided by Hatsumi in one of his books is a hotchpotch of real names associated with the school and made-up names, which is peculiar considering that Takamatsu definitely did train there but alas, that's all the info I have on the topic.
@@murrik It split before Takamatsu, and this is one of the lineages they don't claim comes from Toda. So the mainline Hontai Yoshin Ryu appointed another person as a soke, but according to Bujinkan, their line split in late Edo period, so even if their guy was not a legitimate soke, it could still be considered a koryu, especially if he had a menkyo kaiden or an equivalent in the school.
@@kimonowolf so do i get it correctly that if you get Menkyo Kaiden and you split away and start your own thing and name yourself as the soke of the new organization, then its legit in that way of being soke?
@@murrik Technically speaking, the only way to become a soke is to be appointed a soke by the previous soke, or soke-dairi. However, if one has a menkyo kaiden, that means they mastered all of the aspects of the school, so what would have often happened, even historically, is that they would just go to a different province and start teaching the style they learned, just with their name slapped in front, thus creating a new branch of which they would be a soke.
Thank you Anthony for your great work again. You have been an inspiration for me for some time now..i am thinking about a book myself and you will be mentioned there for sure;) P.S. You spelled my last name perfectly;) My first name is simply Jack (but with a weird Polish spelling:)
Some people worry about things being legit or not as if there was some sort of certificate that proves anything. If you're unsure about it just go to a good Bujinkan learn a bit of it. No one is jumping around, doing dance moves. There's no other way to express it. I think one should start to realize that the things should be perceived by being legit or not not because of a piece of paper but because truthness can be perceived when you're learning it.
Here is an idea. Focus on building your school. Focus on doing all the marketing etc to promote your school. All that I am observing is a tearing down of one school to build up your own. Just saying.
Schools (martial arts typical progression) Traditional / Historical lineage (no syllabus changes) Variations (teachers preference) Sports (rules) Personal Look at it from an overall perspective. Learn from all of them. Stay flexible. A clever (ultimate) version (martial arts) School campus (college) Camp (live in various schools) Courses (live in full time / part time) Got it all.
Got a question, though it may be slightly off topic. Where does their "5 elements" or Godai fit in, was that also made up? Im referring to the 5 attitudes they adopt in unarmed combat, for example, fire = aggression forward motion. I am pretty well versed in Chinese arts and they use, 5 elements in a different manner. One thing I could never get my head around was there, whole 3 step sparring thing with the ichimonji and then step forward punch, it just seemed way too mechanical. Is this from ancient, Koryu?
As far as I can tell most of the things that are called Koryu are Meiji era things formulated during and after recasting of Samurai class as bureaucrats or more standing army military Folk.... some of the stuff in the nine are some things much older than that era. The five elements striking form and the three big postures are generally common to teaching forms that you can see Illustrated in manuals back into the heian era. Recently reproduced Korean manuals from up to 500 years ago show very Chinese dressed looking Folk, performing awkward stances and doing these 125° off lining inside and outside posture changes. However these things are like ABC blocks. Once you have learned your letters you don't need the blocks anymore. You make your way from Hop on Pop, and Green Eggs and Ham... and work your way toward Cervantes, Hugo, Joyce, Dickens, LeGuin.....
So now there are nine Ninja Nazgul to serve the Ninja Dark Lord? I'm curious about this religion you say Hatsumi has founded. Has he described it as such? Is there a book about it? What does he call it? Sorry, I don't know much about Bujinkan.
For what I understand, he switched the Bujinkan to a "religious institution" to the Japanese government, thus budo taijutsu being a "religion" so that all profits are exempt of tax. My 2 cents, this might raise red flags since there is a lot of cultish behavior within the organization but in reality is more of an economic gimmick tan a religious/spiritual move.
I see that others have cleared up a bunch, one thing I have noticed is we had a girl at our dojo who trained Koto Ryu, just Koto Ryu. And I'm pretty sure they have dojos in Japan as well, they just wear white dogi's and train with knives a lot, no ninja stuff going on there just plain old taijutsu or I'd rather just say Jujutsu. I love all that all the arts have taught me, but of course I'm an Anthony fan so I keep my martial arts and my Ninjutsu seperate 😅 Ps I think I'll have to superchat you some cash, I finally caught up on the last few days of videos! In case it matters my last name is Whitehead.
Whole shit is a joke. He made an actor who doesn't even train the Soke of Togakure Ryu over people who have been training most of there adult lives. If that is not showing he doesn't take his own ryu seriously and think it's a joke I don't know what is. He is a genius for breaking them up because that leaves him as the last Grandmaster and it ensures nobody will be a Grandmaster after him.😂
My understanding is that the actor (Takumi Tsutsui) is someone who started to train with Hatsumi many years ago, though I have no idea how long ago relative to the other shihan. Apparently a similar thing happened when Takamatsu promoted Hatsumi to soke. I think one of the other Takamatsu students was senior (either Akimoto Fumio or Kimura Masaji, I am not sure), but he was also much too old to stay with the school for a long period, so Hatsumi was the obvious choice.
@@MVK_GS yes I am aware. He trained him during the Jiraiya series. It is not uncommon for someone to give someone Sokeship prematurely even though the person is not on the level because they show promise. I do think it's a bit of a slap in the face to people who have been training 30 plus years in his art that are probably more deserving and capable than an actor who barely comes to the dojo.
Antony, What do you think about the X-kan claiming that the Natori Family helped preserve Togakure Ryu and pass it to the Toda Family? What do the Natori Family have to say regarding this claim? "Iga ninja such as Momochi Sandayu and others studied the ryu and passed it to the Natori family of Kishu and later in the 17th century to the Toda family."
It doesn't matter because the entire lineage is a fabrication of Takamatsu. No one doing koryu in Japan takes Hatsumi seriously and never really did. I trained Buljinkan with a Judan over 16 years ago in east Tennessee. He had all the photos and kyu ranks posted in his basement dojo. Candid photos of S. Hayes, etc. While on Bullshido over a decade ago he was dismantled by former Buj practitioners. He stopped teaching thereafter. It's theatre folks, that's all. 34 generations. That's longer than virtually any other style outside of archaic Chinese forms from Heaven and Earth style. Get over it folks. Stephen Hayes did us no favors.
How much is really a fabrication from Takamatsu though ? After all much of what we have from Takamatsu comes from the mouth of Hatsumi. Even the biography of Takamatsu is full of obvious BS...
@@Ninja9JKD Reading the lineages and styles he claims? Well no one from those systems recognize him. Simply because he collected densho or received them as gifts doesn't make him a legitimate inheritor. He, and everyone in every branch dojo have been practicing the same skills for literally the past 50 years with virtually no improvement in descendant skills. Also, the variety of skills in the Bujinkan is very limited. We've all seen basically everything with little exception that they have to offer.
@@EngineersQuest I was with the 10th Dan for about three months. During that time I attended without fail regardless. I was the only student training at that time who did, at least once or twice a week for two hours at a time, sometimes more. It was shortly thereafter that he stopped teaching.
Hay, Antony you will lose yourself thinkinkg about Bujinkan, itt's friendly sugest. About your doubt, yes it is genius idea of Hatsumi Soke but it is also natural step of an Ryu ha mining...it just spred out like flower on more flower from one....but you forgoted to mantion that All new Sokes were teaching together all in Bujinkan....from my point of me every one of them have Hatsumi Sokes potencial to go thro BuFuIkkan...I wish you hapyniess in future life, just relags....
I don't think it's so bad that now everyone can do their thing again, maybe you'll be lucky enough to study the scrolls. Or the new old masters are guided by historical records.
Further point said 15th Dan's can do the 5th Dan sakki test in the preasence of the Grandmaster ( someone get the photo of said Grandmaster) oh yeah that's how it's done these day's
Gyokushin is then third ninja school they teach and often quoted that there is very little known about it and its characteristics, which has techniques that are similar to Gyokko ryu or was it to koto ryu Btw, so now if people want to learn the Ninjutsu of Togakure ryu, they have to somehow arrange it with an actor.... just brilliant, is the guy available to teach ?😆
OK so Japan has separate grand master's. However, Hatsuumi promoted various people to 15th Dan. These people are not considered Grandmaster in all 9 schools.? Why learn in Japan a separated system when you could get more from a 15th Dan elsware and still legitimate from a bujinkan point of view. 15th Dan more qualified to teach all 9 schools then a separated grand master's.
No they are not. Actually it's way simpler. Budo Taijutsu has a ranking system of 15 degrees (for better or worse, that is irrelevant at the moment). The individual ryu-ha (and not "schools") are still passed under the traditional Menkyo Kaiden system. Few people hold Menkyo Kaiden.
Japan has not separate grandmasters. They are the grandmasters. None of the 15th Dans has mastered any of the Ryuha, because Hatsumi and the rest of the Japanese do not teach vast parts of the curriculum, especially not to foreigners. But this way of transmission is not exclusive to the Bujinkan, it is very Japanese and very Koryu.
Ninja Master move. lol We have seen other arts like JKD and I think Kempo (I know there are others) who argue over who should head the school especially when the Master dies without appointing anyone. We see this in the Dan Inosanto vs. Bruce Lee's wife split. My concern is that it seems like some Ryu have more in them than others. Also, I don't think he taught each Soke in isolation, each one likely has training in the other Ryu s but just split up the Soke-ships.
I trained Bujinkan in the 80's and 90's. Virturally nothing in Togakure Ryu was taught and definitely nothing was taught from Gyokushin or kumogakure. it's totally made up. Kukishin, Takagi Yoshin and Shinden Fudo Ryu make up probably 95% of what is taught. some from Koto Ryu and gyokko ryu, but even those are highly questionable. There is little doubt that Takamatsu made most of this up.
during the early generations after togakure ryu was founded, it was passed from the nishina clan to the toda clan who already had ownership over kumogakure ryu, gyokko ryu and koto ryu. Takamatsu toshitsugu was the first to have all 9 schools under his name however, masaaki hatsumi was the first to call it bujinkan. the name of bujinkan comes after the death of takamatsu when he was nicknamed bujin (divine warrior), the name bujinkan means hall of the divine warrior as if to say the training halls still belong to takamatsu
Biggest con going look at saki test hatsumi will raise up on balls of feet before he strikes and person will pass one he doesn't he will strike normal load of bollocks Biggest scam going
And the cult continues to follow authentic Ninja tradition spreading harmony and world peace... unless you disrespect them then they will threaten to cut your throat in your sleep. Lies, lies all lies. No wonder Hayes went off on his own.
Without any research I can almost guarantee its ichi-monji, hand to hand combat waza etc. However, the "ninja" franchise will more than likely continue as is with historical accuracy remaining in the bin. Toda-kure was fun as a kid but larping isn't fun in real life when you actually need real answers and real strategy. The Bujinkan gave me a false sense of security and a distorted world view....in pajamas.
If you would like to donate then please do so here
PayPal.Me/antonycummins
My Genbukan instructor predicted that this was exactly how Hatsumi would handle it way back in 1996.
It's interesting that when i first trained in the the Japanese bujinkan in the late 90s some of if those dai shihan were never there.
Sounds like there are 9 new regional managers for the money machine
HELLO TO ALL NINJA AND SAMURAI ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. HE ONLY RECEIVES NOTIFICATIONS FOR NEW COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
wait a second, the kukishin school in the bujinkan is the same as the real one?!?
are they exactly the same?!?!?
Some of the "9" are more "manual complete" and solid than others. Some are associated with other earlier of the 9. Some of the 9 are branch schools of more govt legit Koryu. These are techniques and notes handed down from people who survived. Gyokko, Koto, Kukishin, Shinden Fudo, and Yoshin Ryu are generally solid if used well. Teachers like the aforementioned D. Bartram can fairly effectively teach the more closed door kind of stuff. "Soke" is a cult of personality. Some of his older students who became teachers are much more hands on. Now some are going to be connected with particular books. Good enough. Each lineal set of tech was based around schools of thought, "tactically and operationally". It is probably for the best that one underestimates the students of a school because of the tourists that show up in the most public places and act goofy but pay for keeping the lights on.
The old man is a very intelligent man. The fact that he split the traditions in this way proves it. I am an old student of Ninjutsu and the first time I saw it in 1986 in Paris by Sylvain Guintard( i trained with Bo munthe Stephen Hayes Dan Waxman ..Doron Navon..) it made a terrible impression on me. The truth is that later growing up within the system I had my doubts and understood that not everything follows a traditional family ryu ha. This does not mean that techniques they are not real or not practical. The way of teaching has changed as a result of attracting more people worldwide to the Bujinkan community. This means profit, glory and money at the end of the day. Even today, although I'm not a daily practicer of the art, I have to state that from all the martial arts I've done, the techniques always maintain this primordial physiology of the human body when it really fights. And that alone is important.....
The kumogakure Ryu Ninpo soke will be giving a seminar in Frankfurt May 26-28. The other two Ninpo schools are Togakure Ryu Ninpo and Gyokkoshin Ryu Ninpo
Tell me if you see anything
Its surprising how many video you have uploaded these few days!
If I remember reading correctly a good portion of the 9 schools including the 4 major ones that are most associated with the Bujinkan (Gyokkõ Ryū, Koto Ryū, Togakure Ryū and Takagi Yoshin Ryū) were absorbed into what Takamatsu's Grandfather, Toda, had learned when he inherited the 32nd sokeship of the Togakure Ryū. Whether or not Takamatsu learned both Shinden Fudõ Ryū and Kukishin Ryū (which later became Kukishinden Ryū) from another outside source I am not sure of. As far as other Schools in the Bujinkan, they might have had other names before being "inherited" by Takamatsu. For example, I remember some years ago, one of the high ranking Sensei had stated that when asked about Gikan Ryū Koppõjutsu, that the Gikan Ryū was basically the same thing as Asayama Ichiden Ryū Bujutsu, that had been renamed Gikan Ryū at some point.
Takamatsu had learned Takagi Yoshin ryu from both the Ishitani and Mizuta lines, Kukishin ryu from the Ishitani line also.
I concur
I attend a ninpo taijutsu class basically it’s Genbukan. The highest belt in my class is a Brown White stripe he is pretty good but he’s been there 12 yrs. How could Hatsumi get Grand master ship in 9 Ryu ha in 15 yrs.
@@richardmartinez2973because he was very good
According to the lineage, Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu had 6 and Ishitani Matsutaro Takekage had 3 before all 9 were transferred to Takamatsu Soke.
What a move. Genius.
Thanks! Keep the books and videos comin' !
Perfect Adam thank you. I will mention you in new book
Thank you for the update on this subject matter.
I learned some Kumogakure Kata from a long time top Stephen Hayes student back in my Bujinkan / To-Shin Do days. As far as I’ve been shown, it is suppose to involve double knife (tantô) techniques, hooks mounted on staffs (to hook up horseman), spiked clubs etc. If you watch the oldest Bujinkan videos available, there is some moves that is close to what I learned. I asked the question why the school isn’t taught more and, for what is worth, the answer was : because this is not something close to self defense anymore, this is more about how to murder.
That means your martial Art is complete bullshit cuz that’s what McDojo schools say when challenged
I would seriously consider forgetting anything Hayes teaches
@@danny761 There is a clear lack of evidence about the Shinobi affiliation claim and if you read historical Shinobi scrolls, that doesn’t fit. But at the same time, one can still enjoy the pure martial art part. Hayes is a great teacher and a very charismatic person. But I don’t believe Bujinkan / To-Shin Do to be part of any real Ninja unbroken lineages anymore. At the same time, the self defence techniques are still good.
How come Hayes students teach Kumogakure Ryu Kata when even the Japanese do not teach them. Strange, huh? Heard Hayes also hands out Kukishin Ryu certificates, although he himself has no menkyo or rank in this Ryuha. 😆
@@user-lq2yi8op7w not that strange. As I said earlier, the oldest videos of Hatsumi Sensei showed a glimpse of what I have been taught and very similar techniques. Those techniques seem to have disappeared from most Bujinkan curriculum when the switch from Ninpo Taijutsu to Budo Taijutsu occurred (maybe even before that). As Mr. Hayes trained during the early Ninpo Taijutsu Hatsumi era, he probably learned that knowledge and pass it down to his closest students. I assure you it is not white belt material, more of black belts complementary studies. Again, learning two knifes wielding and spiked hooks / clubs is not self defense anymore, it is murder.
Now, that being said, is it Ninjutsu? I don’t believe so anymore. But still, that was fun to learn.
Takamatsu ended up with everything... through a couple relatives... much like Scott Rodell with the Michuan sword stuff in Tai Chi... Hatsumi seems to be one of the few people who actually cared about what was going on with Takamatsu...et voila
Are You learning violin-jutsu?:))))
Do all the buj redo their photos in black & white to get rid of the purple hair?
I heard that before his wife passed she changed her hair to purple as that was a color used in Japan to symbolize or associate with her illness. After his wife passed, hatsumi changed his hair to purple as a memorial to her....
Don't know how true this is but thought I would throw it out there.
Amazing movement, tactic wise
Steven k hays is hatsumi personal student. If u don't know
I'm surprised that he didn't give it to me😮 I've seen most of the ninja movies. But anyway I would have preferred to have it under ONE Soke.
That is exactly what Hayes said - I'm surprised that he didn't give it to me I've seen most of the ninja movies
Thanks for the video & information
Unquestionably legitimate koryu --> Takagi Yoshin ryu and Kukishinden. You can also throw Asayama Ichiden ryu and Masaki ryu in there too, since some kata and techniques are taught in some Bujinkan circles too.
Questionable, but possibly legitimate ----> Gyokko ryu, Koto ryu, Gikan ryu, and Shinden Fudo ryu. There's a hypothesis thrown around that Takamatsu may have invented Koto ryu and Gyokko ryu based off what he learned in China. I don't think THAT is farfetched.
EXTREMELY questionable -----> Togakure ryu ninjutsu, Kumogakure ryu ninjutsu, Gyokushin ryu ninjutsu. Togakure ryu looks like a blend of the taijutsu from the other schools above, Kukishinden weaponry, material from Ito Gingetsu books, and some bits and pieces from historical ninjutsu documents; Kumogakure ryu isn't even seen. Supposedly, it looks like Togakure ryu, but the specialty weapon is a kamayari...which may have still came from Kukishinden, lol; Gyokushin ryu ninjutsu has sutemi waza and some hojojutsu techniques. It should be noted that there's a legitimate koryu jujutsu school called Gyokushin ryu.
Perfect thank you.
@@AntonyCummins Yeah Takagi yoshin ryu which is a branch of the main one. and kukishinden ryu which Takamatsu was said to be a master from the Kuki family.
To the best of my understanding Gyokko and Koto Ryu were created with Takamatsu. No proof for anything before him. I think Shinden fudu ryu might also be legit So my sensei tells me.
So glad I'm no longer part of that circus.
I’m wondering if it’s a pride thing. Hatsumi is in his sun set years and he doesn’t wan to have to face the fact that he has to give it up to a successor.
You forgot that perhaps he is saving the 1 to be given the Bujinkan itself with all the weapons, monies, scrolls, etc. This I think will happen. The Bujinkan itself has become a Ryu Ha.
Why does Antony always seem to give his two cents worth in on the Bujinkan? (Like he’s some sort of samurai guru authority on it) He doesn’t practice it anymore, probably didn’t make it higher than 4th Kyu , has done everything in his power to disrespect Soke Hatsumi for attention and views. He should leave it alone and just stick to what he’s good at, writing history books.
I get asked the questions. So I answer.
@@AntonyCummins
I understand that, however its the way its presented. Some of the vids were delivered in opinioned, arrogant and disrespectful ways and could have been delivered in more professionally imo. I don’t know why you don’t just stick to being a historian. Your books are good and the content is interesting enough. No need to put down others. Remember, Shinobi no mono are supposed to endure and keep silent about certain things. 😂
"it's"
And I don't find "arrogant". It's obvious that Hatsumi is a fraud who profited from the ninja hype in the 70s to create his cult/school based on a blend of pop culture and what he learned from Takamatsu.
Respect is the default position, and while indoctrinated people deserve it cult leasers don't.
He isn't doing it for attention. He is, now, at this point, seeking actual academia about something he was ALWAYS interested in. Bujinkan claimed (and still claims) to be a real and historic offshoot of that interest and study.
As such, he is still, to this day, asked questions about the the organization by people also interested in the true history of ninja and samurai.
He has an obligation to comment on the bujinkan in the first place due to their claims relating to his academic interests. But he also has a responsibility as an author to respond to his readers about what these things.
I understand a lot of people dislike him because Bujinkan (amd I speak from experience) is a cult-like group that imagines itself the last true school of warriors in the modern age, and not supporting that pisses people off. But I doubt he is clout chasing like so many believe.
He is connected to actual academics at Mie University. He is recognized as a real authority by ACADEMICS in the west while opinion is shifting that Hatsumi is a fraud.
He hasnt had to chase clout because the truth, as searched out by academics, has naturally come to light because of the work of JAPANESE SCHOLARS, not Antony's efforts to TRANSLATE that information.
It 's one helluva move, but for different reasons. Every new Soke has the right to alter his own ryuha. At the same time every new Soke holds Menkyo Kaiden in some or all of the rest ryuha, which means that they are also part of them. 8 new Soke interconnected with each other, allies to move forward in the 21st century. A brilliant move indeed, which secures their further expansion.
As far as I can remember, the only two schools in Bujinkan that might have some provable connection to proper koryu are Kukishinden Ryu and Takagi Yoshin Ryu. Both of them exist outside of Bujinkan and are proven to be legitimate koryu without a shadow of a doubt. However, versions of those schools taught within Bujinkan are somewhat questionable.
Bujinkan's Takagi Yoshin Ryu might very well be legitimate koryu, or at least close to it, as there is unmistakable similarity between it and the several branches of Hontai Yoshin Ryu, a legitimate koryu. According to the Bujinkan canon, Takagi Yoshin Ryu split from Hontai Yoshin Ryu in the 1840s, so if we take thir word at face value, which I don't know that we should, would make their branch of Takagi Yoshin Ryu a koryu by a VERY NARROW margin.
Kukamishin Ryu (the official name of the mainline of Kukishinden Ryu as of several years ago) is a school that Takamatsu unquestionably was a part off, albeit not in the mainline. The line they train with is not a member of any governing body that recognises koryu but they do allegedly maintain communication with the mainline so take that for what it's worth. He was appointed a menkyo kaiden in the school, and though some do claim that he was officially named soke too, Bujinkan never provided a proof for that. Additionally, the lineage provided by Hatsumi in one of his books is a hotchpotch of real names associated with the school and made-up names, which is peculiar considering that Takamatsu definitely did train there but alas, that's all the info I have on the topic.
The branch that split from hontai takagi, did it appoint takamatsu toda or someone on that line officially as soke?
@@murrik It split before Takamatsu, and this is one of the lineages they don't claim comes from Toda. So the mainline Hontai Yoshin Ryu appointed another person as a soke, but according to Bujinkan, their line split in late Edo period, so even if their guy was not a legitimate soke, it could still be considered a koryu, especially if he had a menkyo kaiden or an equivalent in the school.
@@kimonowolf so do i get it correctly that if you get Menkyo Kaiden and you split away and start your own thing and name yourself as the soke of the new organization, then its legit in that way of being soke?
@@murrik Technically speaking, the only way to become a soke is to be appointed a soke by the previous soke, or soke-dairi. However, if one has a menkyo kaiden, that means they mastered all of the aspects of the school, so what would have often happened, even historically, is that they would just go to a different province and start teaching the style they learned, just with their name slapped in front, thus creating a new branch of which they would be a soke.
Thank you Anthony for your great work again. You have been an inspiration for me for some time now..i am thinking about a book myself and you will be mentioned there for sure;) P.S. You spelled my last name perfectly;) My first name is simply Jack (but with a weird Polish spelling:)
Thank you Jack. Money in. Yes please do write a book and I will read it
Some people worry about things being legit or not as if there was some sort of certificate that proves anything. If you're unsure about it just go to a good Bujinkan learn a bit of it. No one is jumping around, doing dance moves. There's no other way to express it. I think one should start to realize that the things should be perceived by being legit or not not because of a piece of paper but because truthness can be perceived when you're learning it.
I think breaking up the schools is smart and interesting
Here is an idea. Focus on building your school. Focus on doing all the marketing etc to promote your school. All that I am observing is a tearing down of one school to build up your own. Just saying.
👍👍
Schools (martial arts typical progression)
Traditional / Historical lineage (no syllabus changes)
Variations (teachers preference)
Sports (rules)
Personal
Look at it from an overall perspective.
Learn from all of them.
Stay flexible.
A clever (ultimate) version (martial arts)
School campus (college)
Camp (live in various schools)
Courses (live in full time / part time)
Got it all.
Have you ever done any videos on jinichi kawakami's ninjutsu? I'd like to know how his differs from the bujikan?
Yes I have done stuff before on this channel
@@AntonyCumminsgreat! let me find it.
Got a question, though it may be slightly off topic. Where does their "5 elements" or Godai fit in, was that also made up? Im referring to the 5 attitudes they adopt in unarmed combat, for example, fire = aggression forward motion.
I am pretty well versed in Chinese arts and they use, 5 elements in a different manner.
One thing I could never get my head around was there, whole 3 step sparring thing with the ichimonji and then step forward punch, it just seemed way too mechanical. Is this from ancient, Koryu?
God question. I’m not sure. I wonder if it turns up outside the bujinkan
It's the same 5 elements that Musashi Miyamoto used in the book of 5 rings. About the way they are taught, I'm not really sure.
It's the same 5 elements that Musashi Miyamoto used in the book of 5 rings. About the way they are taught, I'm not really sure.
As far as I can tell most of the things that are called Koryu are Meiji era things formulated during and after recasting of Samurai class as bureaucrats or more standing army military Folk.... some of the stuff in the nine are some things much older than that era. The five elements striking form and the three big postures are generally common to teaching forms that you can see Illustrated in manuals back into the heian era. Recently reproduced Korean manuals from up to 500 years ago show very Chinese dressed looking Folk, performing awkward stances and doing these 125° off lining inside and outside posture changes. However these things are like ABC blocks. Once you have learned your letters you don't need the blocks anymore. You make your way from Hop on Pop, and Green Eggs and Ham... and work your way toward Cervantes, Hugo, Joyce, Dickens, LeGuin.....
So now there are nine Ninja Nazgul to serve the Ninja Dark Lord? I'm curious about this religion you say Hatsumi has founded. Has he described it as such? Is there a book about it? What does he call it? Sorry, I don't know much about Bujinkan.
It’s a tax dodge
For what I understand, he switched the Bujinkan to a "religious institution" to the Japanese government, thus budo taijutsu being a "religion" so that all profits are exempt of tax.
My 2 cents, this might raise red flags since there is a lot of cultish behavior within the organization but in reality is more of an economic gimmick tan a religious/spiritual move.
I want to expereince the Bujinkan for myself
You should try
Hey Ant, I was former Bujinkan. The Daishihan admitted to me the Togakure Ryu is not a historical school. You were right all along.
I am glad you now understand
@@AntonyCummins I was shocked but they definently are lying right to the students faces.
@@JustinPrime85how old is it? AD 1950s? 1960s?
At least somebody from outside the Bojoo taking a closer look😊…b‘cause most of the Infos about Takamatsu comes from the Xkans…Bojoo being the base🤷🏼🤷🏼
I see that others have cleared up a bunch, one thing I have noticed is we had a girl at our dojo who trained Koto Ryu, just Koto Ryu. And I'm pretty sure they have dojos in Japan as well, they just wear white dogi's and train with knives a lot, no ninja stuff going on there just plain old taijutsu or I'd rather just say Jujutsu. I love all that all the arts have taught me, but of course I'm an Anthony fan so I keep my martial arts and my Ninjutsu seperate 😅
Ps I think I'll have to superchat you some cash, I finally caught up on the last few days of videos! In case it matters my last name is Whitehead.
I got it mate thank you so much
I will add you to next book thank yous
Μy man... you can't even spell them correctly. A historian, seriously now?
👍👍
Takamatsu Sensei first studied Shinden Fudo Ryu, the history is laid out on where and when Takamatsu studied a number of the arts
Whole shit is a joke. He made an actor who doesn't even train the Soke of Togakure Ryu over people who have been training most of there adult lives. If that is not showing he doesn't take his own ryu seriously and think it's a joke I don't know what is. He is a genius for breaking them up because that leaves him as the last Grandmaster and it ensures nobody will be a Grandmaster after him.😂
My understanding is that the actor (Takumi Tsutsui) is someone who started to train with Hatsumi many years ago, though I have no idea how long ago relative to the other shihan. Apparently a similar thing happened when Takamatsu promoted Hatsumi to soke. I think one of the other Takamatsu students was senior (either Akimoto Fumio or Kimura Masaji, I am not sure), but he was also much too old to stay with the school for a long period, so Hatsumi was the obvious choice.
@@MVK_GS yes I am aware. He trained him during the Jiraiya series. It is not uncommon for someone to give someone Sokeship prematurely even though the person is not on the level because they show promise. I do think it's a bit of a slap in the face to people who have been training 30 plus years in his art that are probably more deserving and capable than an actor who barely comes to the dojo.
@@JustinPrime85 Certainly all good points.
ta falando merda, o takumi tanto treina que abriu um dojo recentemente
@@LucasPRamos-uw5ro Sim, e com base na sua premissa, todo dono de academia é um fisiculturista de renome mundial.
It sounds like that was his plan from the beginning
The best one/ ones , will survive. Has a better chance of some keeping things in tack
Love the dad jokes
I need more
Antony, What do you think about the X-kan claiming that the Natori Family helped preserve Togakure Ryu and pass it to the Toda Family? What do the Natori Family have to say regarding this claim?
"Iga ninja such as Momochi Sandayu and others studied the ryu and passed it to the Natori family of Kishu and later in the 17th century to the Toda family."
It’s total nonsense and made up.
@@AntonyCummins Thank you. I have to stop giving these people like Sean Askew such leeway regarding the History they always lie.
It doesn't matter because the entire lineage is a fabrication of Takamatsu. No one doing koryu in Japan takes Hatsumi seriously and never really did. I trained Buljinkan with a Judan over 16 years ago in east Tennessee. He had all the photos and kyu ranks posted in his basement dojo. Candid photos of S. Hayes, etc. While on Bullshido over a decade ago he was dismantled by former Buj practitioners. He stopped teaching thereafter. It's theatre folks, that's all. 34 generations. That's longer than virtually any other style outside of archaic Chinese forms from Heaven and Earth style. Get over it folks. Stephen Hayes did us no favors.
Trying reading the schools Hatsumi presented a number of times... he has the schools for all these styles.
How long did you train?
How much is really a fabrication from Takamatsu though ?
After all much of what we have from Takamatsu comes from the mouth of Hatsumi.
Even the biography of Takamatsu is full of obvious BS...
@@Ninja9JKD Reading the lineages and styles he claims? Well no one from those systems recognize him. Simply because he collected densho or received them as gifts doesn't make him a legitimate inheritor. He, and everyone in every branch dojo have been practicing the same skills for literally the past 50 years with virtually no improvement in descendant skills. Also, the variety of skills in the Bujinkan is very limited. We've all seen basically everything with little exception that they have to offer.
@@EngineersQuest I was with the 10th Dan for about three months. During that time I attended without fail regardless. I was the only student training at that time who did, at least once or twice a week for two hours at a time, sometimes more. It was shortly thereafter that he stopped teaching.
Hay, Antony you will lose yourself thinkinkg about Bujinkan, itt's friendly sugest. About your doubt, yes it is genius idea of Hatsumi Soke but it is also natural step of an Ryu ha mining...it just spred out like flower on more flower from one....but you forgoted to mantion that All new Sokes were teaching together all in Bujinkan....from my point of me every one of them have Hatsumi Sokes potencial to go thro BuFuIkkan...I wish you hapyniess in future life, just relags....
Thank you.
I don't think it's so bad that now everyone can do their thing again, maybe you'll be lucky enough to study the scrolls. Or the new old masters are guided by historical records.
Further point said 15th Dan's can do the 5th Dan sakki test in the preasence of the Grandmaster ( someone get the photo of said Grandmaster) oh yeah that's how it's done these day's
Gyokushin is then third ninja school they teach and often quoted that there is very little known about it and its characteristics, which has techniques that are similar to Gyokko ryu or was it to koto ryu
Btw, so now if people want to learn the Ninjutsu of Togakure ryu, they have to somehow arrange it with an actor.... just brilliant, is the guy available to teach ?😆
No idea. Not sure of the new set up
OK so Japan has separate grand master's.
However, Hatsuumi promoted various people to 15th Dan.
These people are not considered Grandmaster in all 9 schools.?
Why learn in Japan a separated system when you could get more from a 15th Dan elsware and still legitimate from a bujinkan point of view.
15th Dan more qualified to teach all 9 schools then a separated grand master's.
Good point.
No they are not. Actually it's way simpler. Budo Taijutsu has a ranking system of 15 degrees (for better or worse, that is irrelevant at the moment).
The individual ryu-ha (and not "schools") are still passed under the traditional Menkyo Kaiden system. Few people hold Menkyo Kaiden.
Japan has not separate grandmasters. They are the grandmasters. None of the 15th Dans has mastered any of the Ryuha, because Hatsumi and the rest of the Japanese do not teach vast parts of the curriculum, especially not to foreigners. But this way of transmission is not exclusive to the Bujinkan, it is very Japanese and very Koryu.
Ninja Master move. lol We have seen other arts like JKD and I think Kempo (I know there are others) who argue over who should head the school especially when the Master dies without appointing anyone. We see this in the Dan Inosanto vs. Bruce Lee's wife split. My concern is that it seems like some Ryu have more in them than others. Also, I don't think he taught each Soke in isolation, each one likely has training in the other Ryu s but just split up the Soke-ships.
can you actually fight?
Yes. But my body is now old and broken
@@AntonyCummins😂
Togakure Ryu, Komugakore Ryu, Gyokushin= Ninpo schools
I trained Bujinkan in the 80's and 90's. Virturally nothing in Togakure Ryu was taught and definitely nothing was taught from Gyokushin or kumogakure. it's totally made up. Kukishin, Takagi Yoshin and Shinden Fudo Ryu make up probably 95% of what is taught. some from Koto Ryu and gyokko ryu, but even those are highly questionable. There is little doubt that Takamatsu made most of this up.
during the early generations after togakure ryu was founded, it was passed from the nishina clan to the toda clan who already had ownership over kumogakure ryu, gyokko ryu and koto ryu. Takamatsu toshitsugu was the first to have all 9 schools under his name however, masaaki hatsumi was the first to call it bujinkan. the name of bujinkan comes after the death of takamatsu when he was nicknamed bujin (divine warrior), the name bujinkan means hall of the divine warrior as if to say the training halls still belong to takamatsu
🙃🙃🙃
Biggest con going look at saki test hatsumi will raise up on balls of feet before he strikes and person will pass one he doesn't he will strike normal load of bollocks Biggest scam going
Idk what it is
And the cult continues to follow authentic Ninja tradition spreading harmony and world peace... unless you disrespect them then they will threaten to cut your throat in your sleep. Lies, lies all lies. No wonder Hayes went off on his own.
Without any research I can almost guarantee its ichi-monji, hand to hand combat waza etc. However, the "ninja" franchise will more than likely continue as is with historical accuracy remaining in the bin. Toda-kure was fun as a kid but larping isn't fun in real life when you actually need real answers and real strategy. The Bujinkan gave me a false sense of security and a distorted world view....in pajamas.