It is nice to watch garden trials by someone who really understands the scientific method; especially the way you always point out your limitations and departures from it. I wish your trials applied to me. In north Florida, hardneck types don't do well. I just grow Lorz and Thermidrome. Mostly because there is an obvious difference between the two.
I seem to be a contrarian when it comes to garlic, I always plant the small inner cloves widely spaced in the middle of september, let them grow and mulch deeply with mulching compost at the end of october. In the very early spring I fertilize with a LOT of organic fertilizer right on top of the snow. The results are very good. I think it is more about the nutrients and space competition than anything else. Also, I've always seen the first year with new seed cloves be all over the place in consistency, size and flavor. I think this is because the plants are adapting to the new environment by switching on or off genes to suit the new locale.
This video was really interesting. I've just harvested my turban garlic here in Australia. Have you seen the webinars by Tasmanian Gourmet Garlic? She has an amazing knowledge of the garlic groups and how to best to grow them. It made a huge difference to how my garlic did
I started growing 20 varieties about 25 years ago. I reduced the number of varieties down to my favorite 12, and I've gotten to know the personalities of each through the years. I keep all 12 because each has at least one worthwhile advantage. Some are good for raw dishes, some are good dried, some keep longer, some are more resistant to waterlogging, etc.
Another yield video! I'm hyped! @11:00, striving for best crop. About ten years ago, when all the revelations about see breeding for industry scale came up. This was mentioned. Industry seed breeders were asked to bred for yield, uniformity, shelf stability, and shipping. This lead to plump, tasteless, thick skinned, and cheep crops But in a seed saving environment from our ancestors, they would have selected for taste, and consistent harvest. Because their life literally depended on the harvest. having the genetic diversity in your seeds to weather floods, droughts, heat, cold, pest, etc, was a life or death issue when you lived off your crops. if a crop yielded 10% less, but always returned that much, not sometimes failing and sometimes yielding 200%, That was important.
This, it's not all about maximising yield at the end of the day, else we'd just buy from the big producers and it would need less effort, and money probably. It's definitely a balance, of course if you're self-sufficient you want to maximise yields but that's probably better done by diversifying, overplanting, interplanting etc
Good points. One thing that has shifted for me over the years has been a greater focus on simply feeding people, or hopefully helping people to feed them selves. I use to have more of a focus on heritage, taste, (the perception of) resilience in variety selection etc. That stuff is still there, but if I can consistently grow more food with the resources I have, I am more likely to feed more people, and offset the 'bad' caused by most of the other food out there. I am not so interested in the uniformity, shipping etc, I am quite interested in yield.
I really like the idea of that balance you mention. One thing that I am starting to notice is that many people who are aiming for self-sufficiency tend to have access to lots of land and other resources. And is ways that is defiantly me, but I am also becoming interested again in 'maximising', something that I was focused on within my original interest in urban agriculture - feeding people with very little space!
I'm totally impressed with your work. I have attempted almost identical trials! I've planted small cloves, big cloves, Corms and "seeds". I have planted early, mid and late in the fall. I have planted every variety available at the local fall Garlic Festival. I sincerely commend your effort to plant in January. Unfortunately , I have, not unlike yourself, yielded inconclusive results because: after going inside the house to grab a pencil and paper and returning to the garden...I had no idea where I planted what.
Great video. After many years of doing the same i settled on two varieties(Estonian Red and Siberian red/harkov) that solve my problems even if i get a small bulb. I hate small cloves and these two just make fewer cloves and have the few on there be big if the yield is poor. Generally they are also much bigger than other varieties in my experience. Harkov especially never ceases to surprise me with its massive plant
As someone who has grown thousands upon thousands of bulbs of garlic, Ive got a lot of tips. Number One, good compost makes a huge difference, if you have subpar compost add a good organic granular fertilizer, azomite or rock dust and a big dose of phosphorous and potassium in you really want to skew it slightly high with those nutrients, you also need to ensure a large dose of calcium the bulbs will be larger and will also resist more diseases. Soak all cloves in peroxide then in fish fertilizer prior to planting. Spray for rust or fungal diseases before rain shows up if you can. Rust is totally impossible to treat without the following systemic sprays once you get it, Azoxystrobin, Tebucanazole and the non systemic product Mancozeb
My garlic tactic: under glass I planted my biggest cloves, to harvest and almost immediately split. I sort clove sizes, small size goes to the kitchen, medium and large are saved as seed cloves for outdoors next season. Mega size cloves are saved to plant under glass again. Splitting my glass-grown garlic immediately after harvest doesn't dry it out, which was my first concern, and makes sure I have enough seed cloves for the next season without wasting the small cloves. The sorted bigger seed cloves for outdoor planting make for a very constant harvest. For every species I grow I plant around 50 under glass to raise seed cloves and that gives me around 300 to 500 seed cloves, depending on the species, for the next season, not counting the small cloves that went to the kitchen. This tactic gave me a constant seed clove size for outdoor growing and a huge size increase in seed clove over all. Some species starting at max 3 to 5 grams to now up to 14 grams per clove. This season will probably raise the size even more. Perhaps this tactic will work well for your scientific wat of keeping score of your harvests! Happy growing :) greetings from a similar climate in the Netherlands!
That sounds like a great strategy! I have been interested in something similar, and made a video around this topic it a few years ago when I noticed that the cloves produced inside the polytunnel, produced a larger crop outside, but interestingly a later crop. I think I have been up in the 12-14g per clove area. You have convinced me to grow the seed garlic under cover again this year, still time to plant! Thanks
Other than increasing our planting quantity I’ve pretty much kept the spacing and location the same since we got here some 5 years ago. We always sow late oct / early Nov and always harvest mid July (I don’t think you mentioned harvesting times). I am always amazed how hardy they are bearing in mind they sit there through -25 even -30c winters and pop up in spring. I have varied mulches and had most success with leaf mould from a duck shed this being almost a no dig type setup. This year the garlic suffered the same outcome as most stuff and the harvest was poor however this wasn’t unique to us, the whole country had poor harvests which has led to a shortage of seed garlic. We’ll cope, and hope for a better harvest next year. Thanks for this trial it was interesting. Oh one interesting thing was that you kept growing the same strain, we’re always told you shouldn’t grow more than 3/4 years from the same genetics, I don’t know why.
I concur with my limited trials to test commercial seed garlic vs. saved garlic vs. shop garlic the main factors affecting yield were the size of cloves planted and spacing.
Thanks again! I grow just hard neck and am in a colder zone than you. So I'm not sure I gleaned much. But something to try next year is to make some JADAM sulphur for the rust, it also improves the flavor as alliums love their sulphur!
I did a very similar timing trial a couple of years ago here in Maine, planting I think 12 each of 10 varieties in three batches (ie, 36 of each variety total), in mid September, late September, and mid October. I found that all of the earliest batch were ready a week before the same variety in batch 2, which was ready a week before batch 3, and batch 1 was consistently larger than batch 2, which was consistently larger than batch 3. Our much colder winters where there's no growth probably make a big difference, though - You may already be getting as much winter growth as you can really benefit from, while we need a much earlier planting to get that growth.
I'm also interested in getting deeper into garlic, there is more to it than meets the eye initially and a book is on my Christmas list. I'm a bit confused as I remember you doing some tests which proved the adaptation thing to be a myth. On the size/density test you didn't say which variety and when sown. From what i've found out so far softneck can be planted much later, 1st March in your conditions and still give a good crop. Also, the bigger the clove, the less intense the flavour which makes sense to me anyhow. So looking at it from an end user (chefs) POV then it doesn't matter which one to use, either two small cloves or one big one will give the same result, but a bigger clove is easier and quicker to prepare. Officially they want the different strengths for use with different foods, but that depends on how professional they are I suppose There is a specific vernalisation temp and time which reduces the chances of flowering and increases bulb size, but that would maybe mean putting them in the fridge before planting in Spring. I'm currently trialling Spring White in the PT, it's a commercial fast maturing variety so should be ready to harvest earlier. It did indeed sprout much quicker than the others and has put on much more top growth already. Keep the questioning and videos coming!
I used my standard variety for the size density tests. I don't think I proved that the adaptation thing was a myth, more that I noticed a difference that I didn't think could be explained by adaptation. I had planted cloves grown inside and outside, and they had different growth habits, one was more delayed in reaching the same stage. It definitely seems that the clove 'remembered' the warmer microclimate of the polytunnel it had originally been produced in the year before, and the brought that memory into the following season outside. I thought this could not have been the adaptation that people talk about, as I had assumed that adaptation would take many Yeats, but perhaps it was part of the process that can change. So much to learn!
From what I see in my garden experiments , soil fertility and structure makes a huge difference in clove, bulb size ( with same variety ). And spacing, planting date… less
Yeah it is autumn/winter. But I have also decided to shoot the A-roll inside for the foreseeable future. Filming in the polytunnel or outside is a pain. I have to head out there, and the sun can be an issue, and the rain and wind can be problems, and there are distractions of other people around, and noise of passing trucks and planes. So I find I get a lot more stressed or anxious filming in the gardens, and it takes me longer. So I'm going to film in the house now, with a proper light, to make things easier to get videos done.
@REDGardens completely understandable. I love your videos, so if this keeps them coming more easily and with less stress on your part, I'm happy you made the decision.
I've been growing the same variety garlic ( music) for 4 years and saved the biggest bulbs for the garden. The harvests have been mixed . About half the bulbs come out smaller than average consistently. My spacing was 4 inches apart. I may have been remiss in the fertilizing. I was told to amend with calcium to remedy the size issue and I planted 6 inch apart. I also add a new variety ( red Russian). We shall see next summer... The normal consensus is to remove the scapes when they start to curl. I did hear one person say it didn't matter . Have you tried to experiment with that?
They're top sets. Like tree or walking onions get. Some varieties do it more then others. They can be planted but may just produce one large clove in the first year.
Did the maturity dates correlate with the sowing dates? Or were they all ready to harvest around the same time, regardless of being sown up to 4 months apart?
Yes, there was a correlation, forgot to mentioning that. The harvests were staggered, but not as much as the difference in planting times, possibly 3 or 4 weeks, but I wasn't paying much attention.
@REDGardens That's interesting information. So the earliest planting didn't equate to an earlier, or at least a significantly earlier harvest. Good to know for future sowing of garlic. Thank you for responding.
In a garden setting, it is almost impossible to limit the number of variables. Sometimes it may be necessary to limit the scope of the desired outcome. Can I grow a giant pile of garlic in an ever-changing environment? I sure can, baby.
Fastinating! I have a good 30x30 that I could plant garlic into overwinter. I'm in southern new england, usa, zone 6a. Does anyone have recommendations where I can get some bulbs to start with this late into the year?
my most recent two years i planted short rows of garlic at the right time but it just sat there. fertilizer, no fertilizer, nothing made the garlic grow over many months, beyond initial 20cm leaf. pulled up mid spring undeveloped
A question that derived from similar (but less extensive) experiments I do: Occassionaly, one single clove turns into two fairly equally sized plants. Do you have an explaination for this? I see this happens to your garlic as well. How do you reflect this in your trials?
this happens when a clove is in the process of splitting and finishes doing it in the ground after being planted. check all your cloves take the skins off and check them good because you'll see it starting to split and sometimes what seems like one is actually two but because the skin is on it looks like one and all it takes is a little tug to seperate them.
If you haven't tried black garlic give it a shot. It's garlic cooked at a low temp, about 60C for a week. It ferments and mellows the flavor, really tasty. I used to think I grew too much garlic until I started making black garlic. Next year is also my year to try ideas to beat rust. Last. year I grew mine in a greenhouse, a 4' x 60' bed, and STILL had rust problems. I really thought growing indoors would solve it but no luck.
Are you familiar with jadam? I’ve been using jadam Sulphur that I made and it is very cheap. Definitely seems to be more of an effective preventative or early treatment so I’m excited to try it next year again
also, have you thought of analyzing your data like th-cam.com/video/5oULEuOoRd0/w-d-xo.html this nighthawkinlite video details some of the points. I don't know if it is helpful. Thanks for the video and inspiration in the garden.
Very interesting stuff, thanks. One issue that comes to mind in my situation is I don't really have control over some of the variables, such as climate or weather patterns, and inconsistent soil fertility. But would be worth exploring the method.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics I believe in garlic it's driven by DNA methylation of CCGG sites which I guess is transposable elements in the genome getting silenced? At least according to "Before-after analysis of genetic and epigenetic markers in garlic: A 13-year experiment" Gimeneza & Lampasonaa (2018)
I'd guess that by planting the biggest cloves, that winnows out the plants with lesser cloves. So, over time, the plants being planted are those that are best suited for the site. But, that's really not the way people present it. In general, people seem to imply that planting the biggest cloves will IMPROVE that particular clove's future line of plants. And, as you say, I can't see how that can be since the plant from a clove is genetically identical to the plant the clove came from.
@@nommindymple6241 That study I mentioned (where they tested both genetics and for epigenetic markers) said that they found with every generation selecting the largest cloves reduced the genetic diversity in the plants. They believed it was indirectly selecting for the largest individuals out of whatever the initial genetic pool of the garlic was upon 1st planting and I think that makes sense. They would need to actually show that an epiallele is tied to a specific beneficial phenotypic trait to show that it's adaptive, I think their conclusion was that it could be but that more research needed to be done.
I think the mutation in fruit trees is different and potentially greater than the epigenetic adaption we are talking about here. Ive got a dwarf fig, little miss figgy that came from branch of a different variety that mutated and changed its characteristics. With epigenetic changes, the effects are probably more subtle its refering to genetics the variety/asexually cloned garlic variety already has, that can be activated, and potentially stay turned on for future generations. For example with this garlic; disease pressure or weather conditions or soil conditions could turn on latent genes that give that strain of the effectively cloned garlic plants an advantage over "shop" garlic of the same variety from a different site. From my experience I do think these effects are subtle, and Bruces previous garlic videos actually made me think other factors such as clove size were far more important. Definately still worth investigating and thinking about though.
the biggest clove from the german rocambole, i planted this atum, started as bulbilles spring 2023, was 28 grams, and a fair bit was over 20gr. i also planted smaler, from bulbs with only two cloves,they were stil bigger then the rounds plantet last atum,so i want to give them a try. il give you a update next harvest:) i also sprayd my garlic once in the spring with copper spray, got them when they had started to put on some green and before the spring rain set inn,as a preventiv, didnt see any signs of rust later, so i didnt spray later in the season, didnt get any problems with mold, so far, on the wet garlic i harvestet midt juli either. the stuff i used is kobbersulfat\blåstein. (CuSO4(H2O)5). dose:5gram\10liter. but i migth yust be lucky this season:) thank you for another great video
@janericvelure6883 I used copper to successfully stop Blight this year, but have read it deposits heavy metals (copper obvs) into the soil which isn't good.
@@lksf9820 havent done the resurce on the heavy metal part,so i dont know wat to say about that. its approved for øko. growing in norway and its also something that is availebal for hobby growers ect.most stuff you ned a certificate for around here now, i grew up on a smal farm in sørfjorden\hardanger orway. we used copper on the fruit trees wen the foliage was formed on the tre, to keep the leavs free for rust\fungy and give the tree a god start for prod(we also prun the sick brances in the dorment time\winter with other pruning of the tree.gather the brances and burn them,all the farmer do this to keep desise\fungus down,but rust acures naturali in nature and is always around;) and then if its any pressure ore the wedder have been ore are in favor of the rust, the trees gets sprayd again when the flower is finish, to ensure a healty development of the fruit. so if you do a search for hotel ullensvang on gogel, you can have a look on the farms in the area i grew up,and decide for your self if the land looks unhealty:)not trying to bite your head of, yust my opinion, maybe we should put Robert Palvis\garden fundamentals on the case:)
I had to grow my garlic in a greenhouse this year because my previous crop was hit by rust - what a nightmare. Grew a terrific crop of hard neck garlic this year in the greenhouse. I've saved the 5 best bulbs and will try outside again next year..! 🧄🧄🧄
I've been watching you a handful of years now. Thank you for doing these videos. You are an inspiration and a river of knowledge. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
It is nice to watch garden trials by someone who really understands the scientific method; especially the way you always point out your limitations and departures from it. I wish your trials applied to me. In north Florida, hardneck types don't do well. I just grow Lorz and Thermidrome. Mostly because there is an obvious difference between the two.
Thanks! Glad you like to watch, even if it isn't directly applicable.
I seem to be a contrarian when it comes to garlic, I always plant the small inner cloves widely spaced in the middle of september, let them grow and mulch deeply with mulching compost at the end of october. In the very early spring I fertilize with a LOT of organic fertilizer right on top of the snow. The results are very good. I think it is more about the nutrients and space competition than anything else.
Also, I've always seen the first year with new seed cloves be all over the place in consistency, size and flavor. I think this is because the plants are adapting to the new environment by switching on or off genes to suit the new locale.
This video was really interesting. I've just harvested my turban garlic here in Australia. Have you seen the webinars by Tasmanian Gourmet Garlic? She has an amazing knowledge of the garlic groups and how to best to grow them. It made a huge difference to how my garlic did
Thankyou for your trials, it would take me years to find this information out in a small urban garden. Much appreciated 👏👏👏
😁
I started growing 20 varieties about 25 years ago. I reduced the number of varieties down to my favorite 12, and I've gotten to know the personalities of each through the years. I keep all 12 because each has at least one worthwhile advantage. Some are good for raw dishes, some are good dried, some keep longer, some are more resistant to waterlogging, etc.
yup! Need variety if only for the weather.
I am looking forward to exploring them more!
Love your content and work.
😁
Another great video, thank you Bruce, much appreciated
😁
thank you for your continuous efforts!
😁
Your soil is absolutely gorgeous! May good things come.
😁
Another yield video! I'm hyped!
@11:00, striving for best crop.
About ten years ago, when all the revelations about see breeding for industry scale came up. This was mentioned.
Industry seed breeders were asked to bred for yield, uniformity, shelf stability, and shipping. This lead to plump, tasteless, thick skinned, and cheep crops
But in a seed saving environment from our ancestors, they would have selected for taste, and consistent harvest. Because their life literally depended on the harvest. having the genetic diversity in your seeds to weather floods, droughts, heat, cold, pest, etc, was a life or death issue when you lived off your crops.
if a crop yielded 10% less, but always returned that much, not sometimes failing and sometimes yielding 200%, That was important.
This, it's not all about maximising yield at the end of the day, else we'd just buy from the big producers and it would need less effort, and money probably. It's definitely a balance, of course if you're self-sufficient you want to maximise yields but that's probably better done by diversifying, overplanting, interplanting etc
Good points.
One thing that has shifted for me over the years has been a greater focus on simply feeding people, or hopefully helping people to feed them selves. I use to have more of a focus on heritage, taste, (the perception of) resilience in variety selection etc. That stuff is still there, but if I can consistently grow more food with the resources I have, I am more likely to feed more people, and offset the 'bad' caused by most of the other food out there. I am not so interested in the uniformity, shipping etc, I am quite interested in yield.
I really like the idea of that balance you mention. One thing that I am starting to notice is that many people who are aiming for self-sufficiency tend to have access to lots of land and other resources. And is ways that is defiantly me, but I am also becoming interested again in 'maximising', something that I was focused on within my original interest in urban agriculture - feeding people with very little space!
I'm totally impressed with your work. I have attempted almost identical trials! I've planted small cloves, big cloves, Corms and "seeds". I have planted early, mid and late in the fall. I have planted every variety available at the local fall Garlic Festival. I sincerely commend your effort to plant in January. Unfortunately , I have, not unlike yourself, yielded inconclusive results because: after going inside the house to grab a pencil and paper and returning to the garden...I had no idea where I planted what.
Great content, Your channel is one of the best on YT. Thanks and greetings from Poland! :)
Wow, thanks!
Bruce, it sounds like you got interesting results. You learnt a lot. Perhaps not so inconclusive.
No such thing as too much garlic!
@@BlackJesus8463 Well, I guess if he cannot sell it or store it, then it might go to waste, which would be a shame.
Yeah, I did learn, but just think the effort and space was too much.
Thank you. Now i know how my garlic will grow. i just intercropped them and all looks fine❤
Great! Hope you get a good crop!
Great video. After many years of doing the same i settled on two varieties(Estonian Red and Siberian red/harkov) that solve my problems even if i get a small bulb. I hate small cloves and these two just make fewer cloves and have the few on there be big if the yield is poor. Generally they are also much bigger than other varieties in my experience. Harkov especially never ceases to surprise me with its massive plant
As someone who has grown thousands upon thousands of bulbs of garlic, Ive got a lot of tips. Number One, good compost makes a huge difference, if you have subpar compost add a good organic granular fertilizer, azomite or rock dust and a big dose of phosphorous and potassium in you really want to skew it slightly high with those nutrients, you also need to ensure a large dose of calcium the bulbs will be larger and will also resist more diseases.
Soak all cloves in peroxide then in fish fertilizer prior to planting.
Spray for rust or fungal diseases before rain shows up if you can. Rust is totally impossible to treat without the following systemic sprays once you get it, Azoxystrobin, Tebucanazole and the non systemic product Mancozeb
My garlic tactic: under glass I planted my biggest cloves, to harvest and almost immediately split. I sort clove sizes, small size goes to the kitchen, medium and large are saved as seed cloves for outdoors next season. Mega size cloves are saved to plant under glass again. Splitting my glass-grown garlic immediately after harvest doesn't dry it out, which was my first concern, and makes sure I have enough seed cloves for the next season without wasting the small cloves. The sorted bigger seed cloves for outdoor planting make for a very constant harvest. For every species I grow I plant around 50 under glass to raise seed cloves and that gives me around 300 to 500 seed cloves, depending on the species, for the next season, not counting the small cloves that went to the kitchen.
This tactic gave me a constant seed clove size for outdoor growing and a huge size increase in seed clove over all. Some species starting at max 3 to 5 grams to now up to 14 grams per clove. This season will probably raise the size even more.
Perhaps this tactic will work well for your scientific wat of keeping score of your harvests!
Happy growing :) greetings from a similar climate in the Netherlands!
That sounds like a great strategy! I have been interested in something similar, and made a video around this topic it a few years ago when I noticed that the cloves produced inside the polytunnel, produced a larger crop outside, but interestingly a later crop. I think I have been up in the 12-14g per clove area. You have convinced me to grow the seed garlic under cover again this year, still time to plant! Thanks
@@REDGardens Haha, yes, a few years ago your older garlic video helped me work out this garlic-tactic, so thank you too! Love your video's.
Other than increasing our planting quantity I’ve pretty much kept the spacing and location the same since we got here some 5 years ago. We always sow late oct / early Nov and always harvest mid July (I don’t think you mentioned harvesting times). I am always amazed how hardy they are bearing in mind they sit there through -25 even -30c winters and pop up in spring. I have varied mulches and had most success with leaf mould from a duck shed this being almost a no dig type setup.
This year the garlic suffered the same outcome as most stuff and the harvest was poor however this wasn’t unique to us, the whole country had poor harvests which has led to a shortage of seed garlic. We’ll cope, and hope for a better harvest next year. Thanks for this trial it was interesting.
Oh one interesting thing was that you kept growing the same strain, we’re always told you shouldn’t grow more than 3/4 years from the same genetics, I don’t know why.
I dint mention harvest times, sorry, but generally at beginning of July, but it does depend on when it is planted.
I concur with my limited trials to test commercial seed garlic vs. saved garlic vs. shop garlic the main factors affecting yield were the size of cloves planted and spacing.
That is interesting, thanks.
Thanks again! I grow just hard neck and am in a colder zone than you. So I'm not sure I gleaned much. But something to try next year is to make some JADAM sulphur for the rust, it also improves the flavor as alliums love their sulphur!
That sounds like a cool thing to try!
I did a very similar timing trial a couple of years ago here in Maine, planting I think 12 each of 10 varieties in three batches (ie, 36 of each variety total), in mid September, late September, and mid October. I found that all of the earliest batch were ready a week before the same variety in batch 2, which was ready a week before batch 3, and batch 1 was consistently larger than batch 2, which was consistently larger than batch 3. Our much colder winters where there's no growth probably make a big difference, though - You may already be getting as much winter growth as you can really benefit from, while we need a much earlier planting to get that growth.
That is really interesting. I think you are probably right about the different winter weather being a key factor.
I'm also interested in getting deeper into garlic, there is more to it than meets the eye initially and a book is on my Christmas list.
I'm a bit confused as I remember you doing some tests which proved the adaptation thing to be a myth.
On the size/density test you didn't say which variety and when sown.
From what i've found out so far softneck can be planted much later, 1st March in your conditions and still give a good crop. Also, the bigger the clove, the less intense the flavour which makes sense to me anyhow. So looking at it from an end user (chefs) POV then it doesn't matter which one to use, either two small cloves or one big one will give the same result, but a bigger clove is easier and quicker to prepare. Officially they want the different strengths for use with different foods, but that depends on how professional they are I suppose
There is a specific vernalisation temp and time which reduces the chances of flowering and increases bulb size, but that would maybe mean putting them in the fridge before planting in Spring.
I'm currently trialling Spring White in the PT, it's a commercial fast maturing variety so should be ready to harvest earlier. It did indeed sprout much quicker than the others and has put on much more top growth already.
Keep the questioning and videos coming!
I used my standard variety for the size density tests.
I don't think I proved that the adaptation thing was a myth, more that I noticed a difference that I didn't think could be explained by adaptation. I had planted cloves grown inside and outside, and they had different growth habits, one was more delayed in reaching the same stage. It definitely seems that the clove 'remembered' the warmer microclimate of the polytunnel it had originally been produced in the year before, and the brought that memory into the following season outside. I thought this could not have been the adaptation that people talk about, as I had assumed that adaptation would take many Yeats, but perhaps it was part of the process that can change.
So much to learn!
From what I see in my garden experiments , soil fertility and structure makes a huge difference in clove, bulb size ( with same variety ). And spacing, planting date… less
that is interesting, thanks!
I was thinking, 'Why has Bruce been shooting inside for the past few videos?' Then I remembered he lives in Ireland and it's autumn 😅.
Yeah it is autumn/winter. But I have also decided to shoot the A-roll inside for the foreseeable future. Filming in the polytunnel or outside is a pain. I have to head out there, and the sun can be an issue, and the rain and wind can be problems, and there are distractions of other people around, and noise of passing trucks and planes. So I find I get a lot more stressed or anxious filming in the gardens, and it takes me longer. So I'm going to film in the house now, with a proper light, to make things easier to get videos done.
@REDGardens completely understandable. I love your videos, so if this keeps them coming more easily and with less stress on your part, I'm happy you made the decision.
I've been growing the same variety garlic ( music) for 4 years and saved the biggest bulbs for the garden. The harvests have been mixed . About half the bulbs come out smaller than average consistently. My spacing was 4 inches apart. I may have been remiss in the fertilizing. I was told to amend with calcium to remedy the size issue and I planted 6 inch apart. I also add a new variety ( red Russian).
We shall see next summer...
The normal consensus is to remove the scapes when they start to curl. I did hear one person say it didn't matter . Have you tried to experiment with that?
@5:01 are there cloves part way up the stalk? WTF? Never seen that before
They're top sets. Like tree or walking onions get. Some varieties do it more then others. They can be planted but may just produce one large clove in the first year.
Yeah, it is strange. I try to avoid replanting cloves from plants that do that, but I think it might be a response to environmental conditions.
Hi
I love your channel
much better than Charls ding dong also you explain very clear and honest,thank you for your hard work,5*
😂 thanks
Morado cross-section looked big and uniform for being dead last in average bulb size.
That cross section clip was from the previous year, but that variety just doesn't seem to want to grow well here.
Did you get a scape harvest from your hardneck varieties? I have planted only hardneck this year in the hope that I will harvest scapes
I did from a few of them
Did the maturity dates correlate with the sowing dates? Or were they all ready to harvest around the same time, regardless of being sown up to 4 months apart?
Yes, there was a correlation, forgot to mentioning that. The harvests were staggered, but not as much as the difference in planting times, possibly 3 or 4 weeks, but I wasn't paying much attention.
@REDGardens That's interesting information. So the earliest planting didn't equate to an earlier, or at least a significantly earlier harvest. Good to know for future sowing of garlic. Thank you for responding.
In a garden setting, it is almost impossible to limit the number of variables. Sometimes it may be necessary to limit the scope of the desired outcome. Can I grow a giant pile of garlic in an ever-changing environment? I sure can, baby.
Exactly!
Fastinating! I have a good 30x30 that I could plant garlic into overwinter. I'm in southern new england, usa, zone 6a. Does anyone have recommendations where I can get some bulbs to start with this late into the year?
How do you store them?
Birdy
Hanging in my pantry.
my most recent two years i planted short rows of garlic at the right time but it just sat there. fertilizer, no fertilizer, nothing made the garlic grow over many months, beyond initial 20cm leaf. pulled up mid spring undeveloped
Lactic Acid can prevent rust in garlic.
Good to know, thanks
A question that derived from similar (but less extensive) experiments I do: Occassionaly, one single clove turns into two fairly equally sized plants. Do you have an explaination for this? I see this happens to your garlic as well. How do you reflect this in your trials?
this happens when a clove is in the process of splitting and finishes doing it in the ground after being planted. check all your cloves take the skins off and check them good because you'll see it starting to split and sometimes what seems like one is actually two but because the skin is on it looks like one and all it takes is a little tug to seperate them.
Yes, as @billyd7628 mentioned, the cloves planted were actually 2 cloves that hadn't quite separated yet. It can be tough to spot.
If you haven't tried black garlic give it a shot. It's garlic cooked at a low temp, about 60C for a week. It ferments and mellows the flavor, really tasty. I used to think I grew too much garlic until I started making black garlic. Next year is also my year to try ideas to beat rust. Last. year I grew mine in a greenhouse, a 4' x 60' bed, and STILL had rust problems. I really thought growing indoors would solve it but no luck.
60C will kill almost any bacteria within a few hours as per sous vide.
Are you familiar with jadam? I’ve been using jadam Sulphur that I made and it is very cheap. Definitely seems to be more of an effective preventative or early treatment so I’m excited to try it next year again
I have had more success in the polytunnel, but I guess some years are really tough for rust.
I would like to try black garlic! Sounds great!
also, have you thought of analyzing your data like th-cam.com/video/5oULEuOoRd0/w-d-xo.html this nighthawkinlite video details some of the points. I don't know if it is helpful. Thanks for the video and inspiration in the garden.
Very interesting stuff, thanks. One issue that comes to mind in my situation is I don't really have control over some of the variables, such as climate or weather patterns, and inconsistent soil fertility. But would be worth exploring the method.
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I can't understand how asexual reproduction (planting cloves) can lead to adaptation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics I believe in garlic it's driven by DNA methylation of CCGG sites which I guess is transposable elements in the genome getting silenced? At least according to "Before-after analysis of genetic and epigenetic markers in garlic: A 13-year
experiment" Gimeneza & Lampasonaa (2018)
I'd guess that by planting the biggest cloves, that winnows out the plants with lesser cloves. So, over time, the plants being planted are those that are best suited for the site. But, that's really not the way people present it. In general, people seem to imply that planting the biggest cloves will IMPROVE that particular clove's future line of plants. And, as you say, I can't see how that can be since the plant from a clove is genetically identical to the plant the clove came from.
@@nommindymple6241 That study I mentioned (where they tested both genetics and for epigenetic markers) said that they found with every generation selecting the largest cloves reduced the genetic diversity in the plants. They believed it was indirectly selecting for the largest individuals out of whatever the initial genetic pool of the garlic was upon 1st planting and I think that makes sense. They would need to actually show that an epiallele is tied to a specific beneficial phenotypic trait to show that it's adaptive, I think their conclusion was that it could be but that more research needed to be done.
I think the mutation in fruit trees is different and potentially greater than the epigenetic adaption we are talking about here. Ive got a dwarf fig, little miss figgy that came from branch of a different variety that mutated and changed its characteristics. With epigenetic changes, the effects are probably more subtle its refering to genetics the variety/asexually cloned garlic variety already has, that can be activated, and potentially stay turned on for future generations. For example with this garlic; disease pressure or weather conditions or soil conditions could turn on latent genes that give that strain of the effectively cloned garlic plants an advantage over "shop" garlic of the same variety from a different site. From my experience I do think these effects are subtle, and Bruces previous garlic videos actually made me think other factors such as clove size were far more important. Definately still worth investigating and thinking about though.
@@benm9910 YES! this is how it works.
I think you're trying to answer too many questions at one time. I suspect you would get more conclusive results with fewer questions
Youre not going to experience everything the first time.
Yeah, I think you are right.
the biggest clove from the german rocambole, i planted this atum, started as bulbilles spring 2023, was 28 grams, and a fair bit was over 20gr. i also planted smaler, from bulbs with only two cloves,they were stil bigger then the rounds plantet last atum,so i want to give them a try. il give you a update next harvest:) i also sprayd my garlic once in the spring with copper spray, got them when they had started to put on some green and before the spring rain set inn,as a preventiv, didnt see any signs of rust later, so i didnt spray later in the season, didnt get any problems with mold, so far, on the wet garlic i harvestet midt juli either. the stuff i used is kobbersulfat\blåstein. (CuSO4(H2O)5). dose:5gram\10liter. but i migth yust be lucky this season:) thank you for another great video
@janericvelure6883 I used copper to successfully stop Blight this year, but have read it deposits heavy metals (copper obvs) into the soil which isn't good.
@@lksf9820 havent done the resurce on the heavy metal part,so i dont know wat to say about that. its approved for øko. growing in norway and its also something that is availebal for hobby growers ect.most stuff you ned a certificate for around here now, i grew up on a smal farm in sørfjorden\hardanger
orway. we used copper on the fruit trees wen the foliage was formed on the tre, to keep the leavs free for rust\fungy and give the tree a god start for prod(we also prun the sick brances in the dorment time\winter with other pruning of the tree.gather the brances and burn them,all the farmer do this to keep desise\fungus down,but rust acures naturali in nature and is always around;) and then if its any pressure ore the wedder have been ore are in favor of the rust, the trees gets sprayd again when the flower is finish, to ensure a healty development of the fruit. so if you do a search for hotel ullensvang on gogel, you can have a look on the farms in the area i grew up,and decide for your self if the land looks unhealty:)not trying to bite your head of, yust my opinion, maybe we should put Robert Palvis\garden fundamentals on the case:)
would be interesting to try copper
I had to grow my garlic in a greenhouse this year because my previous crop was hit by rust - what a nightmare. Grew a terrific crop of hard neck garlic this year in the greenhouse. I've saved the 5 best bulbs and will try outside again next year..! 🧄🧄🧄
I might grow some in the greenhouse as well, just to avoid the rust.