Talk By Bibek Debroy | The Relevance of Mahabharata For Our Times | Mahabharata Reviews |
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2019
- The Mahabharata is one of the most legendary books, one which has been etched in the civilisational and cultural history of India. The epic features every possible human emotion as well as all aspects of statecraft and warfare. The conflicts in Mahabharata are intense and innumerable. There are no rules except the rule of ‘Dharma’.
This discussion will examine the relevance of Mahabharata for our times: what the contemporary Indian society can learn from the epic; what the key lessons are for governance and statecraft; and how can India’s diplomacy and national security be viewed through the prism of this text.
Speakers
Bibek Debroy is Chairman, Economic Advisory Council to the Prime Minister of India.
Kanchan Gupta, Distinguished Fellow, ORF
#mahabharat #bibekdebroy #rammandir
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What a genious Vivek Debroy is!!!
Omg 4 million ancient manuscript. This shows how advance our ancestors were. It's time to translate and taught in the classroom. This is nothing but blessing of our great ancestors.
He said 40 million
40 million
I feel ashamed of the Indian Government. It should be the government's job to fund all these translations as it is part of our national legacy and heritage.
We are a poor country dude first we have to get rich than we can do that.
@@shshanksharma6371 We are more poor in mindset than economical, mostly we carry colonial mindset.
@@karthikpolasani3038 first we need to educate people our heritage
If not then how do people know how great and prideful our culture is
That's the reason we have brain drain
This mindset is poison
We need our own heritage and cultural studies
Extremely knowledgeable talk.
Glass water bottles on the table.... Environment friendly..
Appreciate..
Wow who would have observed that
On point 👌
Down 25 mins & this is already an amazing talk
Came here after I started reading the BORI Critical Edition Mahabharata translated by Bibek Debroy. Very impressed by his personality. It has the same excitement as I felt reading the author's note.
It's like a voice of me, I have been reading Mahabharat of Geetapress and I really feel people do not know what really mahabharat is. Thank you Debroy Saab for this💜🚩
Happy New year 💜
Amazing articulation ! Thanks ORF for putting your private session out on youtube 👏👏👏
Bibek debroy always Mesmerizing ♥
First to comment. Twitter Ka Kamal. Commented without hearing the talk!!
Talk starts after 1.40 mins.
Old is gold. Very enlighting and provoking speech. Sanskrit should have compulsory since independence.
Hindi is easier and more lucid both in writing and speech. Sanskrit should be however taught as a 4th language.
Amazing talk. The way he explain Draupati and Eklavya incidence is very revealing. Did not know many things like Eklavya being son of General
Karna was not from a low caste either. Suta was a subkshatriya caste. It was third highest ruling caste at that time. It was a result of Pratilom Vivah between male from Higher Kshatriya caste and female from Brahmin caste. Their offsprings were called sutas.
Infact Anga Rajya actually was his inheritance from his father's side because Adhirath was an ousted prince. But these people have condensed it down to today's westernised preceptions.
@SANDEEP KUMAR Read properly. It was third highest ruling caste at that time. Why do you think he was allowed to be king without anybody rejecting him.. why do you think Keechal who was also a sutputra held very high status of army genral in Vidharb rajya. If Sutas were really lowborn why did Sanjay fight in the Kurukshetra war if sutas were not allowed to fight as per their caste. Why was king Rompad and his lineage considered one among the kingdom dynasties according to Mahabharta and Ramayna. Droupdi never insulted him. He was never rejected education by Drona. He was student of Drona. Why was Vidhur given the place of Mahamantri in the glorius Hastinapur kingdom. Caste and Varna system were two different things back than. The system was fluid. It was not rigid. Sutas use to be royal advicers, genrals and even kings. Even Yadav Dynasty was basically suta. Given that Yadu was son of Kashatriya King Yayati and his Brahmin wife Devyani. You are just giving me textbook answer. Karna was never rejected om the bases of caste by anyone. In fact if being called sutputra was an insult why did Karna's friend Duryodhana called him Sutputra also. Dont just come here with leftist narrative. I repeat Suta were the third highest ruling caste at that time after Brahmin and Kshatriyas. It was a sub Kshatriya caste. Do research. Infact Karan himself supported caste system. He literally said Daas doesn't deserve to wear clothes. How would you justify that for caste discrimination. He was not the oppressed he was the oppresser when it came to caste system. Bhim insulted him out of spite when he barged into a family fuction unannounced which he had preplanned with Duryodhana already. Dont be too quick to judge. Varna system was fluid back than. The only section of the caste that was oppressed was the Shudra. Yuyutsu was also made king. Given he was a Kshatta.
@SANDEEP KUMAR Shalya Parva Chapter 25 to 27 These are Sanjay's words. Sanjay faught the battle. And than told Dhritrashtra the news. He had pratiasamriti which allowed him to move fast.
Read
Seeing those soldiers of ours almost deprived of weapons and surrounded (by the foe). I myself, O king, having only two kinds of forces, and becoming reckless of life, joined the five leaders of our army, and fought with the forces of the Pancala prince, posting our men on that spot where Saradwat's son was stationed. We had been afflicted with the shafts of Kiritin. Nevertheless, a fierce battle took place between us and the division of Dhrishtadyumna.
Read my comments again. I repeat Karan was never victim of Caste discrimination. Infact he supported caste based system himself.
Here
तस्मिन्न उपरते शब्दे राधेयः करॊधमूर्छितः
परगृह्य रुचिरं बाहुम इदं वचनम अब्रवीत
27 दृश्यन्ते वै विकर्णे हि वैकृतानि बहून्य अपि
तज्जस तस्य विनाशाय यथाग्निर अरणि परजः
28 एते न किं चिद अप्य आहुश चॊद्यमानापि कृष्णया
धर्मेण विजितां मन्ये मन्यन्ते दरुपदात्मजाम
29 तवं तु केवलबाल्येन धार्तराष्ट्र विदीर्यसे
यद बरवीषि सभामध्ये बालः सथविर भाषितम
30 न च धर्मं यथातत्त्वं वेत्सि दुर्यॊधनावर
यद बरवीषि जितां कृष्णाम अजितेति सुमन्दधीः
31 कथं हय अविजितां कृष्णां मन्यसे धृतराष्ट्रज
यदा सभायां सर्वस्वं नयस्तवान पाण्डवाग्रजः
32 अभ्यन्तरा च सर्वस्वे दरौपदी भरतर्षभ
एवं धर्मजितां कृष्णां मन्यसे न जितां कथम
33 कीर्तिता दरौपदी वाचा अनुज्ञाता च पाण्डवैः
भवत्य अविजिता केन हेतुनैषा मता तव
34 मन्यसे वा सभाम एताम आनीताम एकवाससम
अधर्मेणेति तत्रापि शृणु मे वाक्यम उत्तरम
35 एकॊ भर्ता सत्रिया देवैर विहितः कुरुनन्दन
इयं तव अनेकवशगा बन्धकीति विनिश्चिता
36 अस्याः सभाम आनयनं न चित्रम इति मे मतिः
एकाम्बर धरत्वं वाप्य अथ वापि विवस्त्रता
37 यच चैषां दरविणं किं चिद या चैषा ये च पाण्डवाः
सौबलेनेह तत सर्वं धर्मेण विजितं वसु
38 दुःशासन सुबालॊ ऽयं विकर्णः पराज्ञवादिकः
पाण्डवानां च वासांसि दरौपद्याश चाप्य उपाहर
39 तच छरुत्वा पाण्डवाः सर्वे सवानि वासांसि भारत
अवकीर्यॊत्तरीयाणि सभायां समुपाविशत
40 ततॊ दुःशासनॊ राजन दरौपद्या वसनं बलात
सभामध्ये समाक्षिप्य वयपक्रष्टुं परचक्रमे
And at that sound, the son of Radha, deprived of his senses by anger, waving his well-shaped arms, said these words,--'O Vikarna, many opposite and inconsistent conditions are noticeable in this assembly. Like fire produced from a faggot, consuming the faggot itself, this thy ire will consume thee. These personages here, though urged by Krishna, have not uttered a word. They all regard the daughter of Drupada to have been properly won. Thou alone, O son of Dhritarashtra in consequence of thy immature years, art bursting with wrath, for though but a boy thou speakest in the assembly as if thou wert old. O younger brother of Duryodhana, thou dost not know what morality truly is, for thou sayest like a fool that this Krishna who hath been (justly) won as not won at all. O son of Dhritarashtra, how dost thou regard Krishna as not won, when the eldest of the Pandavas before this assembly staked all his possessions? O bull of the Bharata race, Draupadi is included in all the possessions (of Yudhishthira). Therefore, why regardest thou Krishna who hath been justly won as not won? Draupadi had been mentioned (by Suvala) and approved of as a stake by the Pandavas. For what reason then dost thou yet regard her as not won? Or, if thou thinkest that bringing her hither attired in a single piece of cloth, is an action of impropriety, listen to certain excellent reasons I will give. O son of the Kuru race, the gods have ordained only one husband for one woman. This Draupadi, however, hath many husbands. Therefore, certain it is that she is an unchaste woman. To bring her, therefore, into this assembly attired though she be in one piece of cloth--even to uncover her is not at all an act that may cause surprise. Whatever wealth the Pandavas had--she herself and these Pandavas themselves,--have all been justly won by the son of Suvala. O Dussasana, this Vikarna speaking words of (apparent) wisdom is but a boy. Take off the robes of the Pandava as also the attire of Draupadi. Hearing these words the Pandavas, O Bharata, took of their upper garments and throwing them down sat in that assembly. Then Dussasana, O king, forcibly seizing Draupadi's attire before the eyes of all, began to drag it off her person"
Son of Radha is karna. Droupdi was also called Krishna. Vikarna is the youngest brother of Duryodhana who showed dissent regarding the whole event but was shut down by karna. And what followed. He supported caste system when he said that Daas did not have right to wear clothes.
So lemme check. Karan was given education for free, Karan was given kingdom and made king, Karan was made genral. And its not just him. Keechak was sutputra. So was the queen of Matsya. So was yadav lowborn seeing they were also mixed bred. If you know Karan also belonged to Vrishni race. The same race Krishna belonged to. I am not saying caste hierarchy did not exist . Yes it did. I am just saying that Sutas were not an oppressed caste. Get that fact streight. It was third highest ruling caste at that time. Sanjay was warrior, Royal advicer and charioteer to the king. Thats a very high status. He had knowledge of vedas and gave advice accordingly. His wisdom shows he was very well read. Sutas were not one among oppressed caste. Period! Sanjay was even send as the ambassador to Yudhisthr. Thats status.
@SANDEEP KUMAR Really OBC? Lol. How come OBC use to be kings, royal advicers, and genrals in those time.?
@@thethreespikes9737 beta tu khud pehale padh le 😁😁😁😁
Yes tv serials mai jaise dekhaya jata hai waise nahi par
Bori ce mai clearly mentioned hai ki bheesma ne karn ko low born kehake insult ki hai
Aur shalya ne bhi karn ki insult ushke suth hone ke wajah se ki
Aur bheem ne tho karn ki suth jaati ko kutte(dog) se compare kiya
Mesmerisingly engrossing and brilliantly enlightening 🙏.
J. A. B. van Buitenen had started unabridged translation of critical edition of Mahabharata. He passed away and has translated only 40% of Mahabharata and Bhagavadgita. His student Fitzgerald has resumed where Buitenen has left. This is published by University of Chicago.
Kurukshetra war date , please discussion with NileshOak & Bibek Debroyji will be very very enchanting n Food for thought fabulous work as everything else in terms of Knowledge n vidya is coinciding except THE DATE OF WAR !!
Sir we need people like you so we can start giving lectures on our way of living and our culture.
This brain drain is destroying youth because here people don't even understand how great our culture really is all they see is tall buildings and money.
We need to bring back our hindu pride our sanskriti our culture that is lost.
Garv se kho hm hindu hai
Jai shri krishna
I wish u live 100 year bibek da.
What you are doing is a great contribution to Indian literature. I am glad you are doing the Puranas. It is needed.
Amazing Speech.Very enlightening, specially the way Bibek sir told the story of Draupadi and Eklavya
Incredible session , such pleasure to listen to Bibek ji 🙏🙏
1:20:00 wire schooled 🤣
Play at 1.25x speed.
You're welcome
The energy level is different..🤣🤣🤣
1.5 x is much better 😀
1.75x
3x is better if it existed
Allow me to say something childish to express the immense satisfaction surging through my body after watching this video- hope Macaulay watched this monologue from Above.
Thanks ORF !
Quite insightful
WOW.. WOW.. Blessed to hear this lecture..
Bibek o Bibek! A person of this calibre is advising the prime minister!
There is a very frequent lament that our PM is not listening to economists and experts. If I ever hear anybody saying that again, I will try my best not to break that person's jaw.
If u do not have patience then at least see the question answer session from 1:21:00. A lot of marxist nonsense on Mahabharat is destroyed.
I am amazed by the level of brainwashing that girl has but i am not astonished by the guy who talks about caste cause that has been there since the time of British, to somehow corrupt or interpret Hindu texts to show them as discriminatory and read them selectively, now a days it has become an easy tool for conversions and make Hindus feel inferiority complex by Marxists, i came across an idiot on Internet who was a convert probably and he said that Kauravas were of lower caste that's why Lord Krishna killed them, i was like MAN!! this is a bit too far and complete gone case.
Now a days this Western liberalism and cultural Marxism aka *TOXICITY* is affecting the minds of young generation. Such sessions and seminars as well as counter narratives by bringing out truth gives me hope else if i think of before 2014 seems like we were doomed. The main problem with Hindus is that they read less and hear things from all the places and form opinions based on that, this needs to change.
That girl wants to paint whole Mahabharat by taking example of Draupadi.
Communist distortion is very High cz of Italian rule for 70 years.
Hindus are not taught about their kings who fought against Mughals .this history has been removed by Communist writers.
Marxist have done that much distortion to Hinduism that some Hindus have brainwashed to disrespect their own religion.
@@ashwaryp to prove that guys answer Marxist will say yes!!! here is their points-- kauravas were of lower cast than pandavas because whole kuru dynasty( pandu n dhristrashtra) came from a Fisher women....but pandavs were of kunti and madri-- of course upper cast women and they used mantras to call upon devas to give birth to pandavas hence pandavas were of upper cast as kuru's pandu's branch died with pandu. Right.
The channel has lots of NDTV people
Very knowledgeable and insightful. I'll definitely going to read original texts before making any kinds of assumptions and interpretations.
Thank you for sharing 🙏❤️
Enlightening.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
your comment is on sattology channel also
wow!! awesome
were some of the panelists sleeping while mr.bibek debroy was speeking. they were asking what vivek already covered
What a wonderful talk Bibek Da. Thank you.
Bibek Da, please translate "Chaurya Shastra" after the Puranas, don't cheat me out of a career opportunity :)
😂
Watch and share "व्यवस्था - शैतानीतंत्र - लोकतंत्र - दिव्यतंत्र" on TH-cam
th-cam.com/video/hn84LtMpfkw/w-d-xo.html
For a larger and broader view (in Hindi) by narendra@thedivincrate
Genius!!
Sir, please translate Chaurya Shastram. I need it desperately.🙏
what a genius man
Genius.
Sir Ji,
PDF available kara dijiye (free if possible). I want to read it.
Thank you
Hi bro I have pdf
👍👍👍👍👍
1:22:10 ❤️
Almost all aspects of ancient history are worth full only if... we ( the human society ) intend to learn and apply those aspects to our present for the betterment of the future of our society... but in case our motive and intend is only of material / political or other selfish gains... the very purpose of these narrations of the scriptures is lost in totality... and served no purpose and gone to waste...
Question which we need to ask ourselves is... do we apply the teachings of the religious scriptures in everyday situations ❓or are these only for the purpose of showing off of our ability to have mastered something which can enhance our stature in this material world...
🙏
👍🏻
My Heart broke when i hear Kritamala is now a Nala (gutter) of Vaigei river in Madurai is 42:30.
What pitty people we are!!
Very good talk
Just download whole books and upload to Google Play books
:)
(First 30 minutes a brief summary of scriptures is given. This part only I liked. Actual talk starts at 29:00 and ends at 1:02:33) I'll summarise. Relevances of Mahabharata (and scriptures in general):
1. Beautiful Poetry
2. Tremendous amount of information on Geography/Geology information (My comment: But how useful? Someone in academia has to answer)
3. Tremendous amount of information on the evolution of Sanskrit language.
4. Tremendous amount of information on history. (Again, how accurate?)
5. Tell us about Raja Dharma (Duty of kings, and according to this speaker 'governance', useless imo, to dig up 1000s of pages of scriptures to find out how to govern)
6. Tell us about what a Grihastha should be doing
7. Tells us about Ethics and morality - There is no absolute good and bad... What is there is dilemmas. The reason why Mahabharata (and other scriptures) is relevant today, is that we still identify with these dilemmas, conflicts in our day to day life, and it may help us to make wise decisions.
My opinion this, point#7 is probably the only useful fact, a very useful concept and especially in contrast to Abrahamic religions (which includes Islam and Christianity) which has more binary rights and wrongs, this is something nice about Hindu scriptures.
This talk gives a feel that Sanskrit is extra beautiful, or something like that. Sanskrit is an old language, now outdated. Evolved is the word to use. The current Indian languages must have been more useful, leading to gradual scrapping of Sanskrit. Sanskrit is like the monkey we evolved from. It was once relevant, now relevant only to understand our past, and that's all. In some ways, all the beauty of other Indian languages has something to do with the beauty of Sanskrit. But now it's place is in history, and not in present.
One last comment, read the Old Testament of Christians, which is also the Bible of Jews. Everything claimed in this video (except point#7) can be said about the Old Testament as well. (Even point#7 is there to some extent. Not everything is binary rights and wrongs, but much more binary than Hindu scriptures)
good comment.
His first statement is so incorrect- "Vedas, Arayanakas, Upanishads, Geeta is the Moksha Dharma text." While Upanishads can be called Moksha text and Geeta to some extent but not all part of Veda and Geeta is about Moksha.
1:36:00 haha asking questions for the sake of asking questions.
3:00
Too much of "context building" :/
i dont agree with bebek debroy dating of mahabharat text to 1300BC.
i agree with mrugendra vinod dating of MB 3076BCE
Quoting Sri Krishna debroy also mentioned in another talk that date can be interpreted as 7000 years old
Bhai it happens 3000bc but it first written in1300 bc , BEFORE that all is shruti ,means memaries
Are there Hindus left in WB, Kolkata ?
Beautiful talk but the journalists asking questions are so dumb I feel like reaching through the screen and telling them to keep their mouth shut ..
Love this! But feel uncomfortable seeing almost no women present.
because the women who were present there ( there were few u wished to not see it with your already biased eyes) were not even ready to listen to him and kept on their confrontational attitude .... i recommend u to watch the clip afyer 1 hour and 20 minutes ... Thanks i hope u dont find my reply Patriarchal
Ekalya is used as tool by leftist for caste battle 😅
I think it is BJP effect
From now on, India's original history will regain, its due respect and recognition.
Be it BJP or any other political party, planning to become number 1 party, if they deny the regional history and tradition, they would never get that position. Entire India, suppressed for last two three centuries, want to celebrate their rich heritage.
Nah, even if you hate or love BJP. Celebrating cultural heritage is always celebrated.
The BORI CE edition was launched during Congress era.
Scholarly work is never stopped by Political parties.
Isn't he supposed to be saving our sinking economy...
For that, there are other people... But such a great, knowledgable person, should try to pass on the knowledge as much he can, to inspire more people.
I just noticed about his role in PMO office. Yes, he must be part of some important decisions ..
arrey baba, economy will start floating again, it is okay, don't panic as if it is end of the world. It is not. A way will be found to fix it. While that is being done, why don't you open your mind, cast your judgemental self aside, and learn something from the video?
@@AnkurPandeyef hahahaha...economists have become pandits..yogis have become politicians...conmen have become babas..and voters have become bhakts.😊
@@manmathsinghdeo5220 please Google the word 'pandit'. According to wokipedia, pandit means : "Pandit, can refer to a female pundit or the wife of a pundit is a Brahmin scholar or a teacher of any field of knowledge in Hinduism, particularly the Vedic scriptures, dharma, Hindu philosophy, or secular subjects such as music. He may be a Guru in a Gurukul." So from this definition even your professors and teachers are pandits, regardless of the surname they carry. Indeed, pandit is a title apt for this person giving the talk too. It is to his credit that he could be multi-dimensionally an eminent economist as well as a pandit, and an author. How was that supposed to be an insult i fail to gather.
The yogi politician you speak of has been one for 25 years. So again nothing new.
And bhakti in voters has been again ingrained in our voters forever. Be it so called left wing, or right wing, or dalit politics, everyone is to be considered a bhakt, as long as they refuse to truly re-examine their political biases, even their worldview, as worldviews and political biases are deeply interlinked, by actually studying the opposing political ideas CASTING THEIR BIASES ASIDE( wanted to embolden it, not write in caps lock, but don't know how). Once anyone truly does that, one will neither be bhakt of the 'secular/so called progressive' politics, nor of the 'right wing/neo fundamentalist' politics. Such people are few and far in between; just being educated doesn't ensure one is not bhakt, because not being bhakt takes a lot of study, something 99.999999 percent of people will never do. So again,bhakt voter is more of a rule than exception, irrespective of what side of the political bias spectrum they land on.
Jaana chutye.. Yahaan topic alag hai.
Chairman of the eac is more well versed in mythology than economics. No wonder the economy is fucked.
Irreverent comment. His role is advisory
You absolute idiot! Bibek Debroy is known all over the world for his contribution to the great game theory of economics. He earned his fame as an accomplished Economist world over much before he even started these translations of indology. Don't you do so much as a Google/Wiki search before barfing?!