I don't see what's so difficult here. He's saying that saving faith is itself both a gift and a result of justification. And that the good works that follow in the wake of faith are what "vindicates," or reveals the authenticity of, that saving faith.
Praise God. I heard some terrible rumors that Pastor Doug taught justification by faith and works, or justification by faith and sanctification. But what he has said here is exactly the Gospel as far as I know by the grace of God. We are saved entirely by faith. Both at the beginning of our walk with Christ, and throughout our stay here on earth. The works only serve to proves that the faith which saved us was in fact a real faith (a living faith, and obedient faith). The obedience which this living faith produces is not the grounds of justification, but only a fruit. if anyone is having a difficult time understanding what he says, (which contains a some complex words probably intended for pastors and theologians), is that we are saved by faith alone, but never by a faith that is alone. I think the exact phrasing he said was “we are justified by faith. Our works justify our faith.” That is to say, that good works prove you have saving faith; the works don’t save you.
Christ be with you Because he is wrong Yes St Paul disagrees with this man He does not teach faith is alone Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31) For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13) St John says Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7) God bless you
Christ be with you hope you haven't been waiting too long. Yes St Paul disagrees with this man He does not teach faith is alone Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31) For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13) St John says Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7) God bless you
I am trying to understand the issue some well-meaning Christians have with Doug Wilson. Is the issue that he's an overpusher? Or is just that he's not a pushover? I don't think he's either. I think he runs the risk of being an overpusher BECAUSE he's not a pushover, but his willingness to repent and clean up any messes he makes justifies that, imo.
Christ be with you Yes St Paul disagrees with this man He does not teach faith is alone Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31) For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13) St John says Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7) God bless you
@@MrKev1664 but how is a man justified by God? Surely works flow out from a justified forgiven man, but how is he justified by God? Grace alone, or grace plus works?
@@systemrevolt7309 Christ be with you St Paul tells us this For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. Though we are not justified because of what we have done but because of his mercy by Gods forgiveness for our sin, his Grace. he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5) For until we have repented and been Baptised, born again in water and the Spirit washed in the blood of Christ receiving his forgiveness our righteousness is like dirty rags. Thou meetest him that joyfully works righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways. Behold, thou wast angry, and we sinned; in our sins we have been a long time, and shall we be saved? We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (Isaiah 64:5-6) Sadly good works do not simply flow out of a justified man as most Christians know simply by experience ;they take effort. St Paul tells us we must overcome the flesh For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. (Rom 8:5-6) St John tells us that we must overcome the world Do not love the world or the things in the world. If any one loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world passes away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides for ever. (1 John 2:15-17) St James tells us we must overcome temptation Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. (James 2:12-16) It will be those who believe Jesus and obey he taught, overcoming the world, temptation and the flesh who will receive eternal life. Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, (Heb 5:8-9) please let me know if you think I have misunderstood any of the scriptures and why God bless you
the hands and feet of any would be followers of the Way. The church today has done the same thing the Jews had done 2000 years ago. "Come to the house of God," they say. God says that He does not live in a building of brick and mortar but of flesh and bone. The Bible says to draw near to the house of God to hear for God speaks but do not do as they do for they know not what they do is evil. Church goers dont see that they are stuck suckling from the Pastor only milk. Only the Holy Spirit...
You are saved by faith alone, but your faith doesn't come to you alone. It comes to you with other things, but those other things are just part of the faith, not "additional things required for your salvation"
can feed meat for He seasons it with salt so that we may be the salt of the earth. Let those who have ears to hear understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches!
*Glorification is part of the Ordo Salutis, so as Orthodox Christians teach, no one is glorified until they die or Christ returns. The problem is then one is not fully saved in this life & how saved does one have to be to enter God's presence?*
has done over the last two thousand years? They incorporated pagan beliefs and systems into a church that used the supposed name of our Lord. His name was changed of course for God would not allow His true name to be used. The true church is YOU... the kingdom of God is within YOU... the Holy Spirit is here to forge you into a weapon bringing together all the resources God has put at your disposal not from a book, but by the Spirit. It is His holy Fire that will drive the evil from within.
It's important to distinguish between the works and faith for the same reason its important to distinguish between a tree and its seed. The seed produces the tree, and in that sense they are the same. But it's important to know what the seed is, who planted it, and how it is that ALONE that justifies your salvation. God, by His grace, gives you faith. The kind of faith he gives you is a living faith that produces good works. There are many men who do good works despite never having had the faith -- this is an imposter. The good works is still a blessing to us all, but they are not actually of God. Then there are men who claim to have the faith, but they never produce good works. You either have to believe that a God given faith can produce no fruit, or you have to believe that he doesn't actually have the God given faith. But yes, when you receive a God given faith, you are also compelled (and this is also God given) to good works. And thank God for that!
@@TheMcGloneCode I was actually being critical of these guys because they come so close to admitting the catholic position, (Which is my position) but they stop before they get there. I think the catholic position is much more natural and easily understood but I understand what you mean. If you ever want a catholic understanding check out The "Identity Problem" of Protestantism - TH-cam where we talk in the comments section about faith and works.
@@TheMcGloneCode I think I again. I appreciate the kindness in your question. Some people jump right to arguing. Here’s the crux of it. If you look at Romans 3-4 you read Paul saying “saved by faith apart from works.” I would say this is the key to unlocking the difference between the catholic and protestant position. We Catholics interpret Paul’s expression of Saved by faith apart from works very differently. We think Paul uses the words “works” in two different contexts. In this section, we hold that Paul is saying that a person who works as if God’s owes him something (like salvation) cannot be saved because God doesn’t owe anyone. For us that means, whatever work it might be: maybe you think because you’re rich you deserve heaven or famous or smart or accomplished that you deserve heaven. All of these things are the works of the person (the person is working like an employee at a company, whether he has respect for his boss it doesn’t matter just that he does his job). In this case, Paul is addressing these Jews who think that by doing Jewish customs that God owes them. They don’t have a sincere love of God or a relationship with Him. They just think that if they do this or that Jewish ritual they should be saved. Like they’ve covered their bases. It would be like if someone reads the bible but makes no attempt to reach out to God. They just brag I read the bible so God should save me. That person isn’t owed anything for their work of reading the bible. Romans 4:4 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.… Paul contrasts these people who see themselves as working to have God owe them something with people who are not working. But what he means is that the first group doesn’t have a sincere relationship but believes God owes them heaven. Yet, the second group “not working” does have a sincere relationship with God. When he says not working he doesn’t mean they don’t do good deeds, what he means is they don’t think of God as someone who owes something. Rather they’re trying to be loyal and faithful to God by following His commandments and teachings. This is the distinction. The protestant reads this to mean no good deeds are salvific, or play any part in our salvation. Merely, they are like fruits that prove we were or are saved. The problem is that that effectively translates into saved by faith regardless of anything I do or fail to do. Whether I follow God’s commandments or not it doesn’t matter as long as I have faith. At this point, I think I got the point across. But I’ll just finish by pointing out that Jesus wants us to follow his teachings, in fact he’s commanding us to. He’s telling us clearly that if we don’t follow his teachings we are not his disciples. If a christian man commits adultery. He’s not saved. The bible is filled with passages talking about how sin condemns you. That adulterous man lost his salvation and now needs to ask God for forgiveness and stop that sinning. That’s the Good News. Jesus provides a path to heaven and forgives us when we sin, but we have to ask and stop sinning. I hope that wasn’t too long. So Catholics hold that a person gets saved at baptism, crosses from death to life, but that standing must be maintained by being loyal to Jesus throughout one’s life. However, there are obviously circumstances when a person doesn’t get a chance to live the christian life by doing works, like a person who converts on their death bed. (like the thief on the cross) That’s just an exception to the rule.
It makes no sense to say our cooperation with grace comes by grace. Then we can't do anything but wait around for grace to move us. All the commands in Scripture are farcical because we can't respond to them.
That's right. You can't. Hence the language of "you are DEAD in sin" -- not "almost dead." The Holy Spirit gives a new heart -- which allows the ability to repent. Basic biblical language here.
If your interpretation of Scripture leads you to believe the apostle Paul and the apostle James had opposing and contradictory theologies, you’re wrong.
We are supposed to be the body of Christ yet the vast majority of church goers limit themselves to service within the confines of the church. Jesus did not serve the church. He served God. He did not preach in the church. He preached in the streets and everywhere He went. He is the living breathing Word of God sent to set the captives free not only from sin but from the confines of religion and man made traditions. Yet here we are again. A denomination on every street corner. Traditions binding
James isn't saying that justification is 'not' by faith alone; he's saying that justification is not by a faith that IS alone. Because genuine (saving) faith always produces works, otherwise it's not genuine (saving) faith. Faith without works is indeed dead. Hope this makes sense.
@Christos Kyrios Thank God you’re wrong and that God gave us the sacraments, especially the sacrament of penance, for us to return and be cleansed again and again through His grace!
@Christos Kyrios Why do you think Christ gives the apostles the power to forgive sins in exactly this way in John 20? Why do you see the Church practice this constantly in Church history? Without a single source objecting to it?
Exactly... but what you fail to realize is that those who have created this religion we call Christianity today have developed this mentality in all those who go to church. They say, "If you are here today and you want to give your life to Christ then come forward." They make it simple. Yet Jesus says that eternal life is difficult and narrow is the Way. The church today is of Satan just as it always has been. Do you really think that God would allow His church to do what the Catholic church...
Christ be with you St Paul disagrees Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31) For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13) St John says Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7) God bless you
Sorry, where is the disagreement? Doug's statement here and elsewhere make clear that there is a place for works, and that place doesn't seem contradicted by those passages.
@@oracleoftroy Christ be with you St Paul tells us that justification require us to keep the law (Rom 2:13) He does not speak of a justification prior to that. God bless you
@@MrKev1664 Again, where is the contradiction with this video when this very video has a whole segment about the importance of good works / obedience to the law in it?
For those who know the Scriptures well, it is not hard to put the scripture verse to the sentences he said. That is why knowing the scriptures so well is vital as to catch words and thoughts if they actually can be traced in the Scriptures.
@Jack Tapley read the context. He’s not talking about justification before God. He’s calling out professors of faith whose works show they likely haven’t been justified. Works absolutely have no bearing on your justification. Proof testing is useless.
Just because he didn’t give the book/chapter/verse every time, does not mean that he didn’t quote and reference the Bible. He very clearly did. Multiple times.
So God does not say look at the good work you did or look at your obedience to my commandments, which is our righteousness by the way, to let us into heaven. Oh, we can't be righteous as we are filthy rags. That is for those in the flesh, not in the Spirit. 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. RC Sproul keeps twisting the bible in Genesis 15 claiming Abraham believed God but it says "Abraham believed in the Lord" in Genesis 15. Romans 4 says he believed God. Why does he do that? Because he does not understand that Abraham was declared righteous not just because Christ's righteousness was imputed to him but also because his works were righteous. Faith without love is a false dead faith. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. This nonsense that we are justified before God once and forever is a damaging lie. God created us to love him and obey him and that is our righteousness. Not of ourselves, it is Christ in us and us in Christ but it is still our righteousness. People think they can sin and not be condemned which is nonsense. Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Does it say the soul in Christ is fine because I forever declared them justified? No, the soul that sins, even the righteous man in Christ will be damned to hell. Read Heb 3 and 4 and see what the 4th commandment is all about. It is about losing our salvation through a faith that does not endure.
Christ be with you Yes St Paul disagrees with this man He does not teach faith is alone Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31) For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13) St John says Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7) God bless you
Jesus calls us to respond to the "free gift" of redemption by living out His two commandments of "Love" that fulfills the Law or 10 Commandments. What does "Love" consist of just words alone or is it an action??? Jesus in Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES the will of my father who is in heaven". Then proceed to Matthew 7:24-27 where Jesus explains the difference between "Hearers and Doers". What does Catholic St. Paul state is the "greatest" in 1 Corinthians 13:13 ??? Does not say "faith" does it ??? How about in Galatians 5:6 "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE". Last but not least, James 2:24 "You see that a man IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE". Sola Fide is a false teaching that only serves the enemy of Jesus Christ. Faith AND Works are needed and correctly taught in Jesus Christ's ONE and ONLY established Church: the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
this man is as confusing as the ten commandments. do we need an interpreter here? I sure do. I need F. Lee Bailey to decipher what this man is saying. I don't think he knows what he is saying.
I'm not confused in the slightest. You are saved by God's grace, through faith alone. The good works come packaged with this saving, living faith. The good works don't justify you or your salvation. The good works justify the faith, but the faith justifies you. It's quite simple.
I’m not confused either, dear brother Leslie. I heard some terrible rumors that Pastor Doug taught justification by faith and works, or justification by faith and sanctification. But what he has said here is exactly the Gospel as far as I know by the grace of God. We are saved entirely by faith. Both at the beginning of our walk with Christ, and throughout our stay here on earth. The works only serve to proves that the faith which saved us was in fact a real faith (a living faith, and obedient faith). The obedience which this living faith produces is not the grounds of justification, but only a fruit. if anyone is having a difficult time understanding what he says, (which contains a some complex words probably intended for pastors and theologians), is that we are saved by faith alone, but never by a faith that is alone. I think the exact phrasing he said was “we are justified by faith. Our works justify our faith.” That is to say, that good works prove you have saving faith; the works don’t save you.
money he hopes he'll have when he says he crosses over into life eternally in heaven. bribing our God into believing he is all that. when he is nothing but doing a good impression of doublespeak coming from a mind that is double-minded, going with the wind and the tossing of the seas, as it is described in James, the half-brother of our Lord Jesus Christ. He walks away from this interview, asking himself, who was that that said those things to this interviewer. He forgot what he looked like.
I don't see what's so difficult here. He's saying that saving faith is itself both a gift and a result of justification. And that the good works that follow in the wake of faith are what "vindicates," or reveals the authenticity of, that saving faith.
Well its not about that, if we UNDERSTAND DOUG or not, its about does this answer James 2
I say: Nyes
He goes back and forth. In this video here he says one thing. He says the opposite elsewhere. He does this all the time.
Praise God. I heard some terrible rumors that Pastor Doug taught justification by faith and works, or justification by faith and sanctification. But what he has said here is exactly the Gospel as far as I know by the grace of God. We are saved entirely by faith. Both at the beginning of our walk with Christ, and throughout our stay here on earth. The works only serve to proves that the faith which saved us was in fact a real faith (a living faith, and obedient faith). The obedience which this living faith produces is not the grounds of justification, but only a fruit. if anyone is having a difficult time understanding what he says, (which contains a some complex words probably intended for pastors and theologians), is that we are saved by faith alone, but never by a faith that is alone. I think the exact phrasing he said was “we are justified by faith. Our works justify our faith.” That is to say, that good works prove you have saving faith; the works don’t save you.
Other than his post-millennial eschatology (which I mostly agree with) I don’t understand why Doug is so controversial. What am I missing?
Only controversial because we live in unbiblical times and he is faithfully biblical with all subjects he teaches/writes on.
Christ be with you
Because he is wrong
Yes St Paul disagrees with this man
He does not teach faith is alone
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31)
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13)
St John says
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)
God bless you
Not missing a thing. Doug Wilson is sound in his theology.
Wow, I am very hard on Wilson, but he is beautifully sound here.
Hi, Justin! Do you still think Wilson is sound here?
Where's the heresy? I'll wait.
Christ be with you
hope you haven't been waiting too long.
Yes St Paul disagrees with this man
He does not teach faith is alone
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31)
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13)
St John says
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)
God bless you
I am trying to understand the issue some well-meaning Christians have with Doug Wilson. Is the issue that he's an overpusher? Or is just that he's not a pushover?
I don't think he's either. I think he runs the risk of being an overpusher BECAUSE he's not a pushover, but his willingness to repent and clean up any messes he makes justifies that, imo.
Amen to that!
Amen!!!!!!!!!!
Christ be with you
Yes St Paul disagrees with this man
He does not teach faith is alone
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31)
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13)
St John says
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)
God bless you
@@MrKev1664 but how is a man justified by God? Surely works flow out from a justified forgiven man, but how is he justified by God? Grace alone, or grace plus works?
@@systemrevolt7309
Christ be with you
St Paul tells us this
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.
Though we are not justified because of what we have done but because of his mercy by Gods forgiveness for our sin, his Grace.
he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)
For until we have repented and been Baptised, born again in water and the Spirit washed in the blood of Christ receiving his forgiveness our righteousness is like dirty rags.
Thou meetest him that joyfully works righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways.
Behold, thou wast angry, and we sinned; in our sins we have been a long time, and shall we be saved?
We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.
We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (Isaiah 64:5-6)
Sadly good works do not simply flow out of a justified man as most Christians know simply by experience ;they take effort.
St Paul tells us we must overcome the flesh
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. (Rom 8:5-6)
St John tells us that we must overcome the world
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If any one loves the world, love for the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world.
And the world passes away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides for ever. (1 John 2:15-17)
St James tells us we must overcome temptation
Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him.
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire.
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death.
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. (James 2:12-16)
It will be those who believe Jesus and obey he taught, overcoming the world, temptation and the flesh who will receive eternal life.
Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, (Heb 5:8-9)
please let me know if you think I have misunderstood any of the scriptures and why
God bless you
Sure he did, he quoted Matthew 25:36
the hands and feet of any would be followers of the Way. The church today has done the same thing the Jews had done 2000 years ago. "Come to the house of God," they say. God says that He does not live in a building of brick and mortar but of flesh and bone. The Bible says to draw near to the house of God to hear for God speaks but do not do as they do for they know not what they do is evil. Church goers dont see that they are stuck suckling from the Pastor only milk. Only the Holy Spirit...
1st corinthians 13:13 which is greater faith hope or love. If love is greater than faith how can someone believe in faith alone?
You are saved by faith alone, but your faith doesn't come to you alone. It comes to you with other things, but those other things are just part of the faith, not "additional things required for your salvation"
can feed meat for He seasons it with salt so that we may be the salt of the earth. Let those who have ears to hear understand what the Spirit is saying to the churches!
*Glorification is part of the Ordo Salutis, so as Orthodox Christians teach, no one is glorified until they die or Christ returns. The problem is then one is not fully saved in this life & how saved does one have to be to enter God's presence?*
has done over the last two thousand years? They incorporated pagan beliefs and systems into a church that used the supposed name of our Lord. His name was changed of course for God would not allow His true name to be used. The true church is YOU... the kingdom of God is within YOU... the Holy Spirit is here to forge you into a weapon bringing together all the resources God has put at your disposal not from a book, but by the Spirit. It is His holy Fire that will drive the evil from within.
If works are necessary to have true saving faith why not just tell people you have to have works and faith? Why are they so afraid?
It's important to distinguish between the works and faith for the same reason its important to distinguish between a tree and its seed. The seed produces the tree, and in that sense they are the same. But it's important to know what the seed is, who planted it, and how it is that ALONE that justifies your salvation.
God, by His grace, gives you faith. The kind of faith he gives you is a living faith that produces good works. There are many men who do good works despite never having had the faith -- this is an imposter. The good works is still a blessing to us all, but they are not actually of God.
Then there are men who claim to have the faith, but they never produce good works. You either have to believe that a God given faith can produce no fruit, or you have to believe that he doesn't actually have the God given faith.
But yes, when you receive a God given faith, you are also compelled (and this is also God given) to good works. And thank God for that!
@@TheMcGloneCode
I was actually being critical of these guys because they come so close to admitting the catholic position, (Which is my position) but they stop before they get there. I think the catholic position is much more natural and easily understood but I understand what you mean. If you ever want a catholic understanding check out The "Identity Problem" of Protestantism - TH-cam where we talk in the comments section about faith and works.
That's Gavin Ortlund's channel
@@cmac369 can you summarize the Catholic position as you understand it?
@@TheMcGloneCode I think I again. I appreciate the kindness in your question. Some people jump right to arguing.
Here’s the crux of it. If you look at Romans 3-4 you read Paul saying “saved by faith apart from works.”
I would say this is the key to unlocking the difference between the catholic and protestant position. We Catholics interpret Paul’s expression of Saved by faith apart from works very differently. We think Paul uses the words “works” in two different contexts. In this section, we hold that Paul is saying that a person who works as if God’s owes him something (like salvation) cannot be saved because God doesn’t owe anyone. For us that means, whatever work it might be: maybe you think because you’re rich you deserve heaven or famous or smart or accomplished that you deserve heaven. All of these things are the works of the person (the person is working like an employee at a company, whether he has respect for his boss it doesn’t matter just that he does his job). In this case, Paul is addressing these Jews who think that by doing Jewish customs that God owes them. They don’t have a sincere love of God or a relationship with Him. They just think that if they do this or that Jewish ritual they should be saved. Like they’ve covered their bases. It would be like if someone reads the bible but makes no attempt to reach out to God. They just brag I read the bible so God should save me. That person isn’t owed anything for their work of reading the bible.
Romans 4:4 3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 4Now the wages of the worker are not credited as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.…
Paul contrasts these people who see themselves as working to have God owe them something with people who are not working. But what he means is that the first group doesn’t have a sincere relationship but believes God owes them heaven. Yet, the second group “not working” does have a sincere relationship with God. When he says not working he doesn’t mean they don’t do good deeds, what he means is they don’t think of God as someone who owes something. Rather they’re trying to be loyal and faithful to God by following His commandments and teachings.
This is the distinction. The protestant reads this to mean no good deeds are salvific, or play any part in our salvation. Merely, they are like fruits that prove we were or are saved. The problem is that that effectively translates into saved by faith regardless of anything I do or fail to do. Whether I follow God’s commandments or not it doesn’t matter as long as I have faith.
At this point, I think I got the point across. But I’ll just finish by pointing out that Jesus wants us to follow his teachings, in fact he’s commanding us to. He’s telling us clearly that if we don’t follow his teachings we are not his disciples. If a christian man commits adultery. He’s not saved. The bible is filled with passages talking about how sin condemns you. That adulterous man lost his salvation and now needs to ask God for forgiveness and stop that sinning. That’s the Good News. Jesus provides a path to heaven and forgives us when we sin, but we have to ask and stop sinning. I hope that wasn’t too long.
So Catholics hold that a person gets saved at baptism, crosses from death to life, but that standing must be maintained by being loyal to Jesus throughout one’s life. However, there are obviously circumstances when a person doesn’t get a chance to live the christian life by doing works, like a person who converts on their death bed. (like the thief on the cross) That’s just an exception to the rule.
It makes no sense to say our cooperation with grace comes by grace. Then we can't do anything but wait around for grace to move us. All the commands in Scripture are farcical because we can't respond to them.
That's right. You can't. Hence the language of "you are DEAD in sin" -- not "almost dead." The Holy Spirit gives a new heart -- which allows the ability to repent. Basic biblical language here.
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24 ESV)
Adam Gunari context, friend. Context
Isn’t this the James that was trying to get people to be circumcised? I’ll take Paul’s side on this.
If your interpretation of Scripture leads you to believe the apostle Paul and the apostle James had opposing and contradictory theologies, you’re wrong.
We are supposed to be the body of Christ yet the vast majority of church goers limit themselves to service within the confines of the church. Jesus did not serve the church. He served God. He did not preach in the church. He preached in the streets and everywhere He went. He is the living breathing Word of God sent to set the captives free not only from sin but from the confines of religion and man made traditions. Yet here we are again. A denomination on every street corner. Traditions binding
What does the Bible say about Justification by Faith Alone? read James 2:14-17.
James isn't saying that justification is 'not' by faith alone; he's saying that justification is not by a faith that IS alone. Because genuine (saving) faith always produces works, otherwise it's not genuine (saving) faith. Faith without works is indeed dead. Hope this makes sense.
BehaviorModification Faith that doesn't produce or isn't the product of good works is dead indeed. Titus 3:8, Luke 17:40, 1 Peter 4:7-11 etc.
@@BehaviorModification He literally says it's "not by faith alone". Verbatim.
@Christos Kyrios Thank God you’re wrong and that God gave us the sacraments, especially the sacrament of penance, for us to return and be cleansed again and again through His grace!
@Christos Kyrios Why do you think Christ gives the apostles the power to forgive sins in exactly this way in John 20?
Why do you see the Church practice this constantly in Church history? Without a single source objecting to it?
Exactly... but what you fail to realize is that those who have created this religion we call Christianity today have developed this mentality in all those who go to church. They say, "If you are here today and you want to give your life to Christ then come forward." They make it simple. Yet Jesus says that eternal life is difficult and narrow is the Way. The church today is of Satan just as it always has been. Do you really think that God would allow His church to do what the Catholic church...
Christ be with you
St Paul disagrees
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31)
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13)
St John says
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)
God bless you
Sorry, where is the disagreement? Doug's statement here and elsewhere make clear that there is a place for works, and that place doesn't seem contradicted by those passages.
@@oracleoftroy
Christ be with you
St Paul tells us that justification require us to keep the law (Rom 2:13)
He does not speak of a justification prior to that.
God bless you
@@MrKev1664 Again, where is the contradiction with this video when this very video has a whole segment about the importance of good works / obedience to the law in it?
@@oracleoftroy
Christ be with you
The problem is in what is required to be justified.
God bless you
I love how he did not even quote one single verse!!!
Adam Gunari Read any of the Pauline letters. The New Test. is saturated with "grace alone through faith alone" language.
Actually he did.
For those who know the Scriptures well, it is not hard to put the scripture verse to the sentences he said. That is why knowing the scriptures so well is vital as to catch words and thoughts if they actually can be traced in the Scriptures.
@Jack Tapley read the context. He’s not talking about justification before God. He’s calling out professors of faith whose works show they likely haven’t been justified. Works absolutely have no bearing on your justification. Proof testing is useless.
Just because he didn’t give the book/chapter/verse every time, does not mean that he didn’t quote and reference the Bible. He very clearly did. Multiple times.
So God does not say look at the good work you did or look at your obedience to my commandments, which is our righteousness by the way, to let us into heaven. Oh, we can't be righteous as we are filthy rags. That is for those in the flesh, not in the Spirit. 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. RC Sproul keeps twisting the bible in Genesis 15 claiming Abraham believed God but it says "Abraham believed in the Lord" in Genesis 15. Romans 4 says he believed God. Why does he do that? Because he does not understand that Abraham was declared righteous not just because Christ's righteousness was imputed to him but also because his works were righteous. Faith without love is a false dead faith.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Revelation 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
This nonsense that we are justified before God once and forever is a damaging lie. God created us to love him and obey him and that is our righteousness. Not of ourselves, it is Christ in us and us in Christ but it is still our righteousness. People think they can sin and not be condemned which is nonsense.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Does it say the soul in Christ is fine because I forever declared them justified? No, the soul that sins, even the righteous man in Christ will be damned to hell. Read Heb 3 and 4 and see what the 4th commandment is all about. It is about losing our salvation through a faith that does not endure.
Christ be with you
Yes St Paul disagrees with this man
He does not teach faith is alone
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. (rom 3:31)
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.(rom 2:13)
St John says
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. (1 John 3:7)
God bless you
Catholics believe that they are saved by Grace!!!!!!!!!!!
Adam Gunari Then what are the indulgences all about?
Not grace ALONE though. That's the problem.
They believe in a false doctrine though. it's important to have a RELATIONSHIP with God, not a religion with God
Only some. Not all.
Jesus calls us to respond to the "free gift" of redemption by living out His two commandments of "Love" that fulfills the Law or 10 Commandments. What does "Love" consist of just words alone or is it an action??? Jesus in Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who DOES the will of my father who is in heaven". Then proceed to Matthew 7:24-27 where Jesus explains the difference between "Hearers and Doers".
What does Catholic St. Paul state is the "greatest" in 1 Corinthians 13:13 ??? Does not say "faith" does it ??? How about in Galatians 5:6 "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE". Last but not least, James 2:24 "You see that a man IS JUSTIFIED BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE". Sola Fide is a false teaching that only serves the enemy of Jesus Christ.
Faith AND Works are needed and correctly taught in Jesus Christ's ONE and ONLY established Church: the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
this man is as confusing as the ten commandments. do we need an interpreter here? I sure do. I need F. Lee Bailey to decipher what this man is saying. I don't think he knows what he is saying.
I'm not confused in the slightest.
You are saved by God's grace, through faith alone.
The good works come packaged with this saving, living faith.
The good works don't justify you or your salvation.
The good works justify the faith, but the faith justifies you.
It's quite simple.
Are you easily confused by the Ten Commandments? That is some of the simplest language in the Bible.
I’m not confused either, dear brother Leslie. I heard some terrible rumors that Pastor Doug taught justification by faith and works, or justification by faith and sanctification. But what he has said here is exactly the Gospel as far as I know by the grace of God. We are saved entirely by faith. Both at the beginning of our walk with Christ, and throughout our stay here on earth. The works only serve to proves that the faith which saved us was in fact a real faith (a living faith, and obedient faith). The obedience which this living faith produces is not the grounds of justification, but only a fruit. if anyone is having a difficult time understanding what he says, (which contains a some complex words probably intended for pastors and theologians), is that we are saved by faith alone, but never by a faith that is alone. I think the exact phrasing he said was “we are justified by faith. Our works justify our faith.” That is to say, that good works prove you have saving faith; the works don’t save you.
don't ask him where the ten dollar bills came from. He doesn't remember because he has his own mint somewhere where he prints his own money.
at the end of history, my friend? what on earth are you talking about?
money he hopes he'll have when he says he crosses over into life eternally in heaven. bribing our God into believing he is all that. when he is nothing but doing a good impression of doublespeak coming from a mind that is double-minded, going with the wind and the tossing of the seas, as it is described in James, the half-brother of our Lord Jesus Christ. He walks away from this interview, asking himself, who was that that said those things to this interviewer. He forgot what he looked like.
ten dollar words he puts into his own pockets as he speaks them.
even he doesn't believe in what he is professing. that is what a futile mind is.