Bloody awesome Ben - one of the last inventors in my view - paving the way - excellent video, thoroughly enjoyed it, thank you for the effort - it ain't easy, I know that first hand and actually you coulda got it done in half the time when you are not thinking about filming it all! Brilliant - keep it up pal - following closely.
😍 thanks so much for the very positive comment. Really appreciate that Helished. You know as much I as do the effort to make videos. Anybody reading this check out youtube.com/@HeliShed videos, they are very entertaining and of course all about model helicopters.
It looks like you are going to have fun with this project and you are getting some good advice. I always wanted to put pontoons on my SSDR Chaser microlight but floats and wheels would weigh a lot. Thanks for sharing it.
Yes. Making a machine do two things usually results in a machine that's good at neither. I see you flew into dunkeswell in one of your videos. I'm having a lesson in a c42 on Monday hopefully, Somerset microlights. Do you still fly ?
Yes, still flying when the weather allows. I have a two seat Quantum 912 and a single seat chaser. You’ll learn a lot from Jim, he’s is a top notch instructor. If you fancy a spin in a Quantum let me know. Turning right is always a bit tricky due to the throttle/foot clearance.
That's very kind of you to offer going up with you. I certainly do want to experience a flex wing at some point. 😊👌 Looking forward to meeting Jim, he sounded very nice on the phone.
Better do some drawings then 😆 yes, I really need to start planning this properly. Once I've established things like wing and tail dimensions, angles of incidence, control surface dimensions etc, I can start drawing it to see what it's going to look like. I need to take it out on the water and confirm it's top speed, then I can estimate a suitable takeoff speed and size the wings from that.
Hi Ben, looks like you've built a hovercraft on wheels, they don't like gradients or bumpy ground and the torque on the engine prop might influence the veering to one side,
Hi Peter, good to hear from you, yes it certainly looks like a hovercraft in the long grass. 😆 Never got near full throttle so it's got some poke, but steering it is tricky. Never tried a hovercraft, I think they are even worse to control.
😁👌I thought it looked funny when you can't see the wheels due to the long grass. My C42 lesson was good fun, the instructor demonstrated flying a few feet above fields and hedges. It's definitely where the fun flying is and I can see why you enjoy the mudskipper so much 👍
Ben, I'll stick another tab on that spreadsheet to rough out trim calcs for elevator sizing etc. If I just double up on Kester's 160kg for 2 seater? I'll use stability for free flight aircraft as a start point, but will think about how wIng In surface effect alters the requirements. You would normally trim for a given speed then use the throttle for climb rate. So the honest answer at the moment is that i'm not sure what works best for continued ground effect.
Thanks very much Martin, I have been playing with your spreadsheet and have got some questions for you, will send them over soon. The MTOW of the Fib is 406KG so that won't be far off I expect. I'm hoping to reduce that a little.
@@Ben-Dixey , assuming you are using a similar config to the fib: any chance you could grab a long range zoom photo from side, front & rear? I can guestimates component mass and positions to do more detailed mass & balance check. Want to guestimate polar inertias for stability & control modes too. For a free flight aircraft you would normally check the time constants & damping of the following modes for control & stability: 1. Long period oscillation (phugoid) for speed stability. 2. Short period oscillation for elevator effectiveness. 3. Roll response response for aileron effectiveness. 4. Spiral divergence for yaw stability and rudder effectiveness. 5. Dutch roll for yaw / roll coupling stability.
Excellent video Ben. The continuous circumferential airbag safety concept is perfect! I thought of a couple questions while listening to your video chat. What happens to the air cushion that you are flying in when the waves get bigger? Does the ground effect get choppy, thinner as it gets disturbed or thicker as the waves hold it up? What happens if you gain elevation and reach the top of the cushion - settle back down into the thicker air as your lift is lost or stall, how are flight controls affected?
Continuous circumferential airbag 😂 brilliant argument for the people who might say it's dangerous!! Brilliant questions and I wish I had thought of them, Kester or James greenberger could answer these.. www.youtube.com/@jamesgreenberger/featured
I really miss the Heli, it was an awesome toy, I think it will be back. But fully focused on the WIGE boat at the moment. Hopefully that will be just as fun. 😊
VTOL is hard to beat and there are loads of choices to achieve that. Have you seen this channel? youtube.com/@amazingdiyprojects?si=Y9qQkGyT-4idiqWz He hasn't posted for 5 months which is a little concerning but he's got a very interesting approach.
I first saw a flying boat like this in an old copy of Popular Mechanics back in the early seventies. The one I saw there had a hang glider type wing. I always wanted one since. 😁😁 I think you need a simpler system for the wheels.
I've got the hang glider type flex wing for it. The tubular spars are corroded so I don't think it's any good. Think I can purchase a new wing for it ok though. I tried it on the water over the weekend using the wheels to drive into the water and vice versa. Was fun but yes complicated, you have to switch the engine off in order the pull up the nose wheel because the water pressure going along even at idle makes it too hard to retract. Would be much better with a retract button for all the wheels. Worked well other than that, gets up onto the plane quite quickly and has a top speed of 36mph on the water.
Ah, have you seen the first video ? th-cam.com/video/3aKaxXWYDME/w-d-xo.html I haven't built anything yet, just bought a Polaris amphibious flying inflatable boat. I'm using the boat as the basis for the ekranoplan build. That's the only part that will be used and perhaps the engine/prop. I'll have to build a new seating and engine framework, the wings and the tail.
Just fyi EGT lets you see problems alot faster then CHT's I'm in the U.S. and here 1100F is dialed in perfect. We don't use CHT's as they react to slow on 2 strokes.
You're not the first person to say that, it's a privilege to even be compared. I'll try and find his contact details. I've commented on his videos before but he gets so many views and comments it just gets lost. Thanks for the encouragement. 👍
Correct, I didn't quite get the audio and footage in sync, I was pushing the bar the wrong way at that point still. Shows you are paying close attention. 😉😉
True , Now about the wing I would consider a fabric wing like a hang-glider wing , in order to reduce project cost , Otherwise I would prefer a retractable wing for easier transportation @@Ben-Dixey
Funnily enough, I have watched some ground effect 'planes'. Does it really exist? I hate to say it, you are going to have fun, but I am in the nae sayer camp for it to work as you imagine. I shall follow you with this project and wish all the very best! PS - take a look at www.youtube.com/@rctestflight/videos and about two years ago he did some experiments.
👍 I will report my findings just like I did with the helicopter project, that had some drawbacks that I wasn't unaware of and a lot of the time the drawbacks aren't reported back. I'm sure this project will have drawbacks but it will be interesting and I'm sure a fun project. I'm quite happy for people to voice their concerns or doubts it usually helps with the process. I had some contact with a guy who designed and built a helicopter back in the 70s for one purpose, to settle an argument! It was a three bladed design with no lead lag hinges, back then these hinges were thought to be mandatory on rotors with more than two blades but that wasn't the case. That is an extreme example but being questioned can lead to very good things.
@@Ben-Dixey It's a great project. I am envious of your skills. I really want it to work, truly I do. Do you think it will work only over water, or will it go over land as well? Whatever the outcome, I will raise a glass to you.
@@DumfriesDik I like engineering, I used to do it for a job but now it's just a hobby. Hopefully people will find the build of interest. It will definitely work over land in the same way, if I keep the wheels I could test it on a runway.
DumfriesDik , the ground effect is real but seldom explained well. You have to go back to potential flow methods of the past to really see it. Imagine a mirror image aircraft below the ground plane. That means the aircraft above ground is effectively operating in the upwash of a mirror image wing. Does this effect lift? Not really, because you will correct for the slight increase in angle of attack (cosine, so small). Does this effect drag? You bet, because the lift vector is more up and less rearwards (sine, so large). The simplest way to estimate it is to ignore the lift effect and put in a factor for reduced induced drag. Or write your own Prandtl lifting line code, like the one I'm going to use on Ben's project... 😉
@@martingarrish4082 but it is not seen commercially which makes me think it’s not viable. If a craft is to use ground effect only, then it should not be able to fly above that. The effort need to break with ground I suspect is enough to enable flight above ground effect. The Russians tried but it wasn’t viable. You can see their crafts rotting on beaches. Which may mean it can work, just not for commercial activities. I really want to be wrong and I would love to see this project, erm, get off the ground!
Bloody awesome Ben - one of the last inventors in my view - paving the way - excellent video, thoroughly enjoyed it, thank you for the effort - it ain't easy, I know that first hand and actually you coulda got it done in half the time when you are not thinking about filming it all! Brilliant - keep it up pal - following closely.
😍 thanks so much for the very positive comment. Really appreciate that Helished. You know as much I as do the effort to make videos. Anybody reading this check out youtube.com/@HeliShed
videos, they are very entertaining and of course all about model helicopters.
nice shoutout - thanks for that - will return the courtesy.@@Ben-Dixey
It looks like you are going to have fun with this project and you are getting some good advice. I always wanted to put pontoons on my SSDR Chaser microlight but floats and wheels would weigh a lot. Thanks for sharing it.
Yes. Making a machine do two things usually results in a machine that's good at neither.
I see you flew into dunkeswell in one of your videos. I'm having a lesson in a c42 on Monday hopefully, Somerset microlights. Do you still fly ?
Yes, still flying when the weather allows. I have a two seat Quantum 912 and a single seat chaser. You’ll learn a lot from Jim, he’s is a top notch instructor. If you fancy a spin in a Quantum let me know. Turning right is always a bit tricky due to the throttle/foot clearance.
That's very kind of you to offer going up with you. I certainly do want to experience a flex wing at some point. 😊👌
Looking forward to meeting Jim, he sounded very nice on the phone.
Awesome. Always loved these machines
Very interesting sounds like a fun thing to fly ! Would like to see some drawings or something of what you are planning in a video 👍
Better do some drawings then 😆 yes, I really need to start planning this properly. Once I've established things like wing and tail dimensions, angles of incidence, control surface dimensions etc, I can start drawing it to see what it's going to look like. I need to take it out on the water and confirm it's top speed, then I can estimate a suitable takeoff speed and size the wings from that.
Hi Ben, looks like you've built a hovercraft on wheels, they don't like gradients or bumpy ground and the torque on the engine prop might influence the veering to one side,
Hi Peter, good to hear from you, yes it certainly looks like a hovercraft in the long grass. 😆
Never got near full throttle so it's got some poke, but steering it is tricky. Never tried a hovercraft, I think they are even worse to control.
Thanks for info. Take a look at the 'Mudskipper' in Australia.
Hi and thanks. Yes I'm in regular contact with James greenberger. He's been very helpful and of course inspiring.
Hahaha! Loved seeing you taxi around!
😁👌I thought it looked funny when you can't see the wheels due to the long grass. My C42 lesson was good fun, the instructor demonstrated flying a few feet above fields and hedges. It's definitely where the fun flying is and I can see why you enjoy the mudskipper so much 👍
Ben, I'll stick another tab on that spreadsheet to rough out trim calcs for elevator sizing etc. If I just double up on Kester's 160kg for 2 seater? I'll use stability for free flight aircraft as a start point, but will think about how wIng In surface effect alters the requirements. You would normally trim for a given speed then use the throttle for climb rate. So the honest answer at the moment is that i'm not sure what works best for continued ground effect.
Thanks very much Martin, I have been playing with your spreadsheet and have got some questions for you, will send them over soon. The MTOW of the Fib is 406KG so that won't be far off I expect. I'm hoping to reduce that a little.
@@Ben-Dixey , no problem my friend. Answering questions will be a good test of my own understanding!
@@Ben-Dixey , assuming you are using a similar config to the fib: any chance you could grab a long range zoom photo from side, front & rear? I can guestimates component mass and positions to do more detailed mass & balance check. Want to guestimate polar inertias for stability & control modes too.
For a free flight aircraft you would normally check the time constants & damping of the following modes for control & stability:
1. Long period oscillation (phugoid) for speed stability.
2. Short period oscillation for elevator effectiveness.
3. Roll response response for aileron effectiveness.
4. Spiral divergence for yaw stability and rudder effectiveness.
5. Dutch roll for yaw / roll coupling stability.
Sure, no problem. I'll note the dimensions too. Thank you.
Excellent video Ben. The continuous circumferential airbag safety concept is perfect!
I thought of a couple questions while listening to your video chat. What happens to the air cushion that you are flying in when the waves get bigger? Does the ground effect get choppy, thinner as it gets disturbed or thicker as the waves hold it up? What happens if you gain elevation and reach the top of the cushion - settle back down into the thicker air as your lift is lost or stall, how are flight controls affected?
Continuous circumferential airbag 😂 brilliant argument for the people who might say it's dangerous!!
Brilliant questions and I wish I had thought of them, Kester or James greenberger could answer these.. www.youtube.com/@jamesgreenberger/featured
Going to miss the heli, but this sounds seriously cool!!
I really miss the Heli, it was an awesome toy, I think it will be back. But fully focused on the WIGE boat at the moment. Hopefully that will be just as fun. 😊
@@Ben-Dixey I hope so! I hope your project runs great lol
Would love to see you one day attempt to make another vtol flying machine tho!
VTOL is hard to beat and there are loads of choices to achieve that. Have you seen this channel?
youtube.com/@amazingdiyprojects?si=Y9qQkGyT-4idiqWz
He hasn't posted for 5 months which is a little concerning but he's got a very interesting approach.
I first saw a flying boat like this in an old copy of Popular Mechanics back in the early seventies.
The one I saw there had a hang glider type wing.
I always wanted one since. 😁😁
I think you need a simpler system for the wheels.
I've got the hang glider type flex wing for it. The tubular spars are corroded so I don't think it's any good. Think I can purchase a new wing for it ok though.
I tried it on the water over the weekend using the wheels to drive into the water and vice versa. Was fun but yes complicated, you have to switch the engine off in order the pull up the nose wheel because the water pressure going along even at idle makes it too hard to retract. Would be much better with a retract button for all the wheels.
Worked well other than that, gets up onto the plane quite quickly and has a top speed of 36mph on the water.
Isn't this designed for a delta wing to fly? Would eliminate all the problems doing that.
I'm confused Ben... have you built the whole thing, or added an airframe to a dingy, and is it designed for a hang glider wing, or gyro rotor ?
Ah, have you seen the first video ? th-cam.com/video/3aKaxXWYDME/w-d-xo.html
I haven't built anything yet, just bought a Polaris amphibious flying inflatable boat. I'm using the boat as the basis for the ekranoplan build. That's the only part that will be used and perhaps the engine/prop. I'll have to build a new seating and engine framework, the wings and the tail.
Just fyi EGT lets you see problems alot faster then CHT's I'm in the U.S. and here 1100F is dialed in perfect. We don't use CHT's as they react to slow on 2 strokes.
You should meet and speak with Allen Millyard
Hi, Allen Millyard is an engineering Genius. Would love to meet him.
Hes also nearly identical personality type to you. You two would be amazing peers and friends.
You're not the first person to say that, it's a privilege to even be compared. I'll try and find his contact details. I've commented on his videos before but he gets so many views and comments it just gets lost. Thanks for the encouragement. 👍
You say you are trying to turn left, but the right wheel locks up at 0:40
Correct, I didn't quite get the audio and footage in sync, I was pushing the bar the wrong way at that point still. Shows you are paying close attention. 😉😉
👍👍👍👍👍👍.
I feel good now about my self knowing that I am not the only one who have crazy and smart ideas 😂
😀 not so many people doing this stuff anymore it seems. All playing computer games instead.
True , Now about the wing I would consider a fabric wing like a hang-glider wing , in order to reduce project cost , Otherwise I would prefer a retractable wing for easier transportation @@Ben-Dixey
A single skin wing is definitely on the cards. It's simplicity is hard to resist.
Funnily enough, I have watched some ground effect 'planes'. Does it really exist? I hate to say it, you are going to have fun, but I am in the nae sayer camp for it to work as you imagine. I shall follow you with this project and wish all the very best! PS - take a look at www.youtube.com/@rctestflight/videos and about two years ago he did some experiments.
👍 I will report my findings just like I did with the helicopter project, that had some drawbacks that I wasn't unaware of and a lot of the time the drawbacks aren't reported back. I'm sure this project will have drawbacks but it will be interesting and I'm sure a fun project. I'm quite happy for people to voice their concerns or doubts it usually helps with the process.
I had some contact with a guy who designed and built a helicopter back in the 70s for one purpose, to settle an argument! It was a three bladed design with no lead lag hinges, back then these hinges were thought to be mandatory on rotors with more than two blades but that wasn't the case. That is an extreme example but being questioned can lead to very good things.
@@Ben-Dixey It's a great project. I am envious of your skills. I really want it to work, truly I do. Do you think it will work only over water, or will it go over land as well?
Whatever the outcome, I will raise a glass to you.
@@DumfriesDik I like engineering, I used to do it for a job but now it's just a hobby. Hopefully people will find the build of interest. It will definitely work over land in the same way, if I keep the wheels I could test it on a runway.
DumfriesDik , the ground effect is real but seldom explained well. You have to go back to potential flow methods of the past to really see it. Imagine a mirror image aircraft below the ground plane. That means the aircraft above ground is effectively operating in the upwash of a mirror image wing. Does this effect lift? Not really, because you will correct for the slight increase in angle of attack (cosine, so small). Does this effect drag? You bet, because the lift vector is more up and less rearwards (sine, so large). The simplest way to estimate it is to ignore the lift effect and put in a factor for reduced induced drag. Or write your own Prandtl lifting line code, like the one I'm going to use on Ben's project... 😉
@@martingarrish4082 but it is not seen commercially which makes me think it’s not viable.
If a craft is to use ground effect only, then it should not be able to fly above that.
The effort need to break with ground I suspect is enough to enable flight above ground effect.
The Russians tried but it wasn’t viable. You can see their crafts rotting on beaches. Which may mean it can work, just not for commercial activities.
I really want to be wrong and I would love to see this project, erm, get off the ground!
Piece of cake 😅😂
😆👍