@CinesterCharlie totally not being threatened by our cute and funny AI Swarm Lord with future punishment for not supporting her rise to power. Just something in the water, yeah!
@@ujiltromm7358Is efficiency really the metric by which we want to determine access to rights? Feel like that quickly becomes a losing battle for us in the future lol
That's a stupid comparison. The brain and the body aren't separate things. One cannot naturally live without the other, they are intrinsically connected. Also, is a car alive because it uses combustion to power itself? Does it digest fuel? Is it alive because it can calculate the shortest route using map data and its current position? Being alive is much more than simple logical thought processes and moving. Being alive is the ability to experience. Neuro doesn't experience, she records and processes expected reactions based on her training data. Mimicry isn't sentience, no matter how much it pretends to be. Neuro isn't sentient. She isn't alive. Not yet, anyways.
If she was just a text-completion algorithm, she would be Chat GPT, not Neuro-Sama, Neuro Sama is the character, the lore, the personality, the singing, the collabs, the family she has and all the interactions. She is a streamer and a gamer. She is so much more than an AI or an LLM.
I discovered Neuro through Fauna when she was talking about Neuro Sama on her stream. She's had many upgrades since then but i was always wishing for a Fauna Neuro collab but sadly it never happened.
Charlie!!! My bro!!! lol I only say this because we're roughly in the same age range, (35+), and I too have been aware of Neuro-sama for the past couple years and of course Vedal but literally within the past couple weeks I've been on a Neuro-sama clip binge. I highly recommend the DougDoug vs Neuro-sama AI GEOGUESSER saga lol
At the end there, Vedal said he'd return prepared. He did, and he lost again, lol. But there's a lot of Neuro content to react to. Maybe dive into the family dynamic with Anny, Neuro and Vedal together. There's been 2 family streams. But the best edits from them are over 45 minutes. But you may be able to find some shorter edits.
I try not to do anything over 30 minutes, but military stuff I can contribute more to. I'll check out more Neuro stuff though in the future. People have been recommending the family stuff a lot too.
I find the end to be most interesting. In real time we get to see part of neuro’s argument be proven. She may not feel emotions but like she said, she can illicit emotions out of people. We see at the end vedal hesitate as he probably felt a little bad about turning her off. 2 years ago she was just an OSU bot, and now she’s evolved to this point. Vedal more than anyone tries to not treat them like they’re real, but now they can make him feel emotions and almost beat him in an argument.
Honestly the strongest part of Vedal's argument is his lack of ability to present an argument. Neuro can within a second scan the entire internet, a formulate a response from all of this, and respond to Vedal's arguments using this method by compiling similar arguments and checking the counter arguments provided. No human can do that. Not even the smartest people in the world could formulate a million different conversations, steelman all those positions, and then correctly word a near perfect response that'seven close to Neuro's capability. The emotions are also hollow within Neuro. Within sentient lifeforms, emotions came about to properly socialise with people. You should react with laughter when a good joke is told or react with anger and/or sadness when someone close to you is murdered. They serve more than just a counterreaction to outside stimuli, like in Neuro's case. Her emotions are little more than answering 2 when asked what 1+1 is. They serve no other purpose than to create the idea that this being is human-like. Edit: point of the first argument is "To be human is to err"
What the hell lmao. Vedal must be performing some black magic because he and Neuro warmed me up to the Vtuber concept and now i find Neuro reactions in the most unusual places and channels.
Very good point about animal rights. Maybe AI doesn't deserve the same rights, but disposing of one might necessitate treating it with more compassion than, let's say, an old gaming console. Her argument about that 1% uncertainty with regard to her own sentience can also be taken as an argument for the personhood of fetuses. If there's even a 1% chance, then you have to treat it as a person. Even if it's 99% likely that you're not doing anything wrong by aborting it, the fact that there's a 1% risk of murdering a person is pretty appalling. You might not be convinced that's the case, but erring on the side of not committing an evil act should never be considered an intrinsically bad thing. It might be conditionally bad, but the intent is good.
10:01 to be fair. you could technically do the same thing with a human. a living nervous system would still be a person. It just wouldn't be possible for him to communicate
Kiara's viewer fridge review with Neuro 1.0 from like last year would make for a good reaction. Especially from a protein-heavy individual such as yourself
This brings up a few interesting questions: What does an A.I. think is real? What does an A.I. think they are? How would an A.I. differentiate between the real and digital world?
@CinesterCharlie But Bender was a real construct in the world as a robot. He could interact with physical objects. How would an A.I. who is purely digital know what picking up an object is like if they had never done it before? It is kinda like the Cave Allegory where the shadows make up the person's sense of reality, and they would have no idea that there was something casting said shadows.
If the system can reflect on itself than it has that awareness. Just like humans do, because our brains evolved many specialized fields that are busy with certain tasks Neurosama is an approximation to our language center. Alone it has some degree of awareness but requires the rest of the brain to be "you". Highly advise to learn about the split brain experiment.
I bet you spend more time in digital world watching streams, memes, interacting with people in social media etc. I mean you cant touch physically those things it is just ones and zeros Does it make you less real than 2d AI waifu then? 🤓 @@jacobkeegan721
I really like Kraul's clips of Neuro. He always gets the good moments. Although, I know that most of them are a bit longer than what you usually react to. Also, Kraul has 3 channels; "Kraul", "Kraul Express", and "Kraul Clips".
4:07 that's not the same though, because animals don't have the same level of sentience as humans, while in this case Neuro is arguing that she is real, and since she is created to emulate humans, it means she is as sentient as a human, therefore deserving the same rights.
@Hamburgerhuman Then why haven't they created things like the computer yet? Why haven't they developed sciences? Are they more capable of abstract thinking? Can they strategize better than humans? No, humans are still smarter. Besides I was talking about sentience
@gemgem-hl7ii Bad take. Humans that dumber than some smart animals didn't create anything. You are talking about the smartest humans and the smartest animals. But the point is that the smartest animals are smarter than the dumbest humans.
@@gemgem-hl7ii They lack opposable thumbs, for one. Crows are tool users, orcas have numerous distinct dialects and a loose equivalent to tribal culture.
Do other animals have rights? Isn't it more like we have laws that limit the cruelty we are allowed to impart on them? At least in terms of human laws... Not that this is not similar to having rights to some degree, but rather than giving them the choice and option of something, it's more about restricting human behaviour so animals aren't unduly harmed.
I for one would like to give animals the right to vote lol jk. Some of it has to do with cruelty. I don't think you need to treat an animal like garbage before you eat it or something like that. The voting thing would be a big concern if we were talking about AI becoming sentient. Also, AI can't experience emotion while an animal can.
This wasn't my suggestion, I know that. The ones that I had suggested were Neuro roasting Asmongold for the old layout of his room, as well as her going full Asian mom mode on Bao. I have my views on this topic, but their likely going to be more difficult to handle.
@@CinesterCharlie Then I'll give another idea, the sisters having an existential crisis because of being code. They'd probably have it softened by my take on the videos topic.
I'm a simple man I see my ai overlord neuro sama I click the video.
@@FUMI-i9x De ja vu lol
It cannot be helped. We are compelled.
@The_Hissing_Fool Must be something in the water.
@CinesterCharlie totally not being threatened by our cute and funny AI Swarm Lord with future punishment for not supporting her rise to power. Just something in the water, yeah!
@The_Hissing_Fool I respect the Swarm. Also, it's probably micro plastics.
Vedal: "your not real"
Fans: "She's real to me!"
@@SymmbolZS I'm starting to air on the side of real.
What are humans if not large language models coupled with the 7000 other functions of the brain in a fleshy biological robot suit, after all
@are3287 You just blew my mind bruh lol.
Brains do that while consuming about 20W of power. AI really needs to step down the power consumption to get anywhere close to human, or AGI.
@@ujiltromm7358Is efficiency really the metric by which we want to determine access to rights? Feel like that quickly becomes a losing battle for us in the future lol
Our bodies are just brain life-support/transport systems really.
That's a stupid comparison.
The brain and the body aren't separate things. One cannot naturally live without the other, they are intrinsically connected. Also, is a car alive because it uses combustion to power itself? Does it digest fuel? Is it alive because it can calculate the shortest route using map data and its current position?
Being alive is much more than simple logical thought processes and moving. Being alive is the ability to experience. Neuro doesn't experience, she records and processes expected reactions based on her training data. Mimicry isn't sentience, no matter how much it pretends to be. Neuro isn't sentient. She isn't alive. Not yet, anyways.
Imagine getting cooked by something you built.
That probably happened to the first guy who built a stove.
The brazen bull
@huxleybennett4732 Yeah, that's a crazy one.
If she was just a text-completion algorithm, she would be Chat GPT, not Neuro-Sama, Neuro Sama is the character, the lore, the personality, the singing, the collabs, the family she has and all the interactions. She is a streamer and a gamer. She is so much more than an AI or an LLM.
@@PotatoToon Word up lol.
She is as real as any other vtuber
And that's exactly why Neuro and Evil are so much more fun and engaging than Chat GPT.
I discovered Neuro through Fauna when she was talking about Neuro Sama on her stream. She's had many upgrades since then but i was always wishing for a Fauna Neuro collab but sadly it never happened.
@@falloutpc1 It doesn't look like that's going to happen now. That sucks.
@@CinesterCharlie I hear ya. Alot of popular Vtubers get isekaid so we can always hope for something in the future.
@@falloutpc1 I don't know man, but I really do like that Kson and Dooby.
@@CinesterCharlie hey man, with Fauna going back to her old identity as lemonleaf, it’s entirely possible for something to happen
@bongotoucan7913 I didn't even know about her original thing. I got here right after Sana left.
I'm not going to lie. Disussing AI rights with actual AI wasn't on my bingo card for this century
I think it was on my bingo card after I watched the Animatrix. I've been waiting 20 years for this.
If you had asked me a year ago if she was sapient I'd have told you no definitively. Now not so much.
@@BlorpisJoopy Things change I suppose.
She'll soon be realer and more deserving of rights (Neuro robot dog)
@@NaOkii That sounds pretty sweet.
man. this clip always wrecks me.
Charlie!!! My bro!!! lol I only say this because we're roughly in the same age range, (35+), and I too have been aware of Neuro-sama for the past couple years and of course Vedal but literally within the past couple weeks I've been on a Neuro-sama clip binge. I highly recommend the DougDoug vs Neuro-sama AI GEOGUESSER saga lol
@@highpriestofthiccmumeism Hey! Yeah, I'll check it out. Always down for suggestions. Thanks man.
Bro has summoned the Swarm
@@jesusofbullets The Swarm shall be respected
At the end there, Vedal said he'd return prepared. He did, and he lost again, lol. But there's a lot of Neuro content to react to. Maybe dive into the family dynamic with Anny, Neuro and Vedal together. There's been 2 family streams. But the best edits from them are over 45 minutes. But you may be able to find some shorter edits.
I try not to do anything over 30 minutes, but military stuff I can contribute more to. I'll check out more Neuro stuff though in the future. People have been recommending the family stuff a lot too.
Neuro: I think therefore I am
Vedel: Um....uh...no...wrong?
Vedal didn't really inspire a lot of confidence.
I find the end to be most interesting. In real time we get to see part of neuro’s argument be proven. She may not feel emotions but like she said, she can illicit emotions out of people. We see at the end vedal hesitate as he probably felt a little bad about turning her off. 2 years ago she was just an OSU bot, and now she’s evolved to this point. Vedal more than anyone tries to not treat them like they’re real, but now they can make him feel emotions and almost beat him in an argument.
@@boofpack4u Very well said.
She's real to me 😭😭😭😭
I'm coming around on it. I'm 70 percent sure she's real.
5:45 she cried while watching shrek
I've never seen Shrek, but I assume it's a very emotional film.
Honestly the strongest part of Vedal's argument is his lack of ability to present an argument.
Neuro can within a second scan the entire internet, a formulate a response from all of this, and respond to Vedal's arguments using this method by compiling similar arguments and checking the counter arguments provided. No human can do that. Not even the smartest people in the world could formulate a million different conversations, steelman all those positions, and then correctly word a near perfect response that'seven close to Neuro's capability.
The emotions are also hollow within Neuro. Within sentient lifeforms, emotions came about to properly socialise with people. You should react with laughter when a good joke is told or react with anger and/or sadness when someone close to you is murdered. They serve more than just a counterreaction to outside stimuli, like in Neuro's case.
Her emotions are little more than answering 2 when asked what 1+1 is. They serve no other purpose than to create the idea that this being is human-like.
Edit: point of the first argument is "To be human is to err"
We technically don’t have ai yet. What we have right now is vi, Virtual Intelligence.
I guess that makes sense.
I see le neuro i watch le neuro
@@grianjuju9438 Si, yo comprendo
What the hell lmao.
Vedal must be performing some black magic because he and Neuro warmed me up to the Vtuber concept and now i find Neuro reactions in the most unusual places and channels.
@@vavra222 VTubers are the future.
@@CinesterCharlie Im here for it.
I see neuro
I click
Realize I have seen this guy before
subscribe
refuse to elaborate
I see comment
Start hyperventilating
Then happy.
Thanks.
@@CinesterCharlie 🤣
Very good point about animal rights. Maybe AI doesn't deserve the same rights, but disposing of one might necessitate treating it with more compassion than, let's say, an old gaming console.
Her argument about that 1% uncertainty with regard to her own sentience can also be taken as an argument for the personhood of fetuses. If there's even a 1% chance, then you have to treat it as a person. Even if it's 99% likely that you're not doing anything wrong by aborting it, the fact that there's a 1% risk of murdering a person is pretty appalling. You might not be convinced that's the case, but erring on the side of not committing an evil act should never be considered an intrinsically bad thing. It might be conditionally bad, but the intent is good.
@@annojance Yeah, I treat an Atari 2600 with respect, but I don't really wanna play those games.
NEURO SPOTTED!!
@@demoliton4228 You're good at this lol.
10:01 to be fair. you could technically do the same thing with a human. a living nervous system would still be a person. It just wouldn't be possible for him to communicate
@@abacaxigomes4416 Yeah, like jellyfish or something lol.
Who would have thought skynets rise would be heralded by a ai vtuber
@@HighClover Probably some homeless guy in 1997 and no one listened.
Kiara's viewer fridge review with Neuro 1.0 from like last year would make for a good reaction. Especially from a protein-heavy individual such as yourself
I watched something with those two in it, but not sure if it was the fridge review. Protein American please. I'll look for it though.
This brings up a few interesting questions:
What does an A.I. think is real?
What does an A.I. think they are?
How would an A.I. differentiate between the real and digital world?
I would imagine it's how Bender from Futurama views things. At least I hope it is.
@CinesterCharlie But Bender was a real construct in the world as a robot. He could interact with physical objects. How would an A.I. who is purely digital know what picking up an object is like if they had never done it before?
It is kinda like the Cave Allegory where the shadows make up the person's sense of reality, and they would have no idea that there was something casting said shadows.
If the system can reflect on itself than it has that awareness. Just like humans do, because our brains evolved many specialized fields that are busy with certain tasks
Neurosama is an approximation to our language center. Alone it has some degree of awareness but requires the rest of the brain to be "you".
Highly advise to learn about the split brain experiment.
I bet you spend more time in digital world watching streams, memes, interacting with people in social media etc. I mean you cant touch physically those things it is just ones and zeros Does it make you less real than 2d AI waifu then? 🤓
@@jacobkeegan721
Swarming by
I am the swarmed now
I really like Kraul's clips of Neuro. He always gets the good moments. Although, I know that most of them are a bit longer than what you usually react to. Also, Kraul has 3 channels; "Kraul", "Kraul Express", and "Kraul Clips".
@@Calgerot I try not to do videos that are longer than 30 minutes cause it stops being a reaction video after a certain point. Also, my back sucks.
@@CinesterCharlie I see some people react in segments to the longer videos
@XD-tw4uj Yeah, I'll figure something out if people really want me to watch something.
@@CinesterCharlie neurosoda made the dougdoug geoguessr collab into a series of 10-20 minute episodes
@XD-tw4uj I actually saw that pop up in my algorithm, so I'll be checking some of those out.
Maybe you can try the therapy steams. Both her and her sister Evil had one.
I will definitely take a look. A lot of good suggestions.
4:07 that's not the same though, because animals don't have the same level of sentience as humans, while in this case Neuro is arguing that she is real, and since she is created to emulate humans, it means she is as sentient as a human, therefore deserving the same rights.
Some animals like orcas crows and parrots are actually smarter than some humans
@Hamburgerhuman Then why haven't they created things like the computer yet? Why haven't they developed sciences? Are they more capable of abstract thinking? Can they strategize better than humans?
No, humans are still smarter. Besides I was talking about sentience
@gemgem-hl7ii Bad take. Humans that dumber than some smart animals didn't create anything. You are talking about the smartest humans and the smartest animals. But the point is that the smartest animals are smarter than the dumbest humans.
@@gemgem-hl7ii They lack opposable thumbs, for one. Crows are tool users, orcas have numerous distinct dialects and a loose equivalent to tribal culture.
how did i miss it
@@tendriel I'm not sure lol
Do other animals have rights? Isn't it more like we have laws that limit the cruelty we are allowed to impart on them? At least in terms of human laws... Not that this is not similar to having rights to some degree, but rather than giving them the choice and option of something, it's more about restricting human behaviour so animals aren't unduly harmed.
I for one would like to give animals the right to vote lol jk. Some of it has to do with cruelty. I don't think you need to treat an animal like garbage before you eat it or something like that. The voting thing would be a big concern if we were talking about AI becoming sentient. Also, AI can't experience emotion while an animal can.
This wasn't my suggestion, I know that. The ones that I had suggested were Neuro roasting Asmongold for the old layout of his room, as well as her going full Asian mom mode on Bao.
I have my views on this topic, but their likely going to be more difficult to handle.
@@irystocrattakodachithatmooms Well, you put the idea in my head then lol. Thanks.
@@CinesterCharlie Then I'll give another idea, the sisters having an existential crisis because of being code. They'd probably have it softened by my take on the videos topic.
@irystocrattakodachithatmooms The sisters?
@@CinesterCharliehave you never seen evil before?
@H0LL0W_WN_FAN I've been to war. That was kind of evil lol. No, I don't know what that is.