I’m a college d1 pitcher. I’ve been down both routes of training where command is all about focus and concentration and also looking at command mechanically. In my experience command is a blend of things. Most of command is rhythm and timing. If you have a consistent miss in a certain area it’s likely mechanical. If you have really poor command, working on repeatability, better timing could be good for mechanics. But at a certain point it becomes more about focus and concentration
From a personal standpoint and talking with other pitchers, I think fatigue or how your feeling that day plays a bigger part in control then people think. Any pitcher who is an above or average control guy will say sleep/recovery being good plays a role in hitting spots that day consistently. You can be fatigued and not feel ur best and still have the same mechanics. To pitchers who just struggle in general with command idk id say finger pressure is huge.
I’d be curious to see sleep studies on athletes for a variety of reasons. My main issue with your logical here is what you’d consider “fatigue.” If it’s connected to any body part moving slower, then it will likely be connected to velocity. So this is a pretty easy thing to measure on literally baseball savant. If you’re talking more nuanced fatigue causing body sequencing to be off, that is also something I’d think a team would pick up on Hawkeye/Kinatrax. So I think I get what you’re saying? I just think command wouldn’t be too relevant if the pitcher is down 1-3 mph off their average
@@LanceBrozya I agree with your thinking. But through whoop scores and oura rings that most guys use we all have come to believing that when we have bad recovery scores it actually affects the command more than velo. I think velo simply comes from how loose you feel that day or if u slept on your back weird stuff like that. The CNS obviously plays probably the bigger part. But I mean who knows we didn’t do a study or anything just all of us noticed strike% more heavily correlated with recovery scores then velo. (Or Whoop and aura rings r bs lol)
Minor leaguer with the mets. I’ve got a couple thoughts on this. I think the large majority of command has to do with the combination of mechanics but mostly with the mind. Mechanics have changed so much over the years that now it’s all about how to increase velocity. Rarely to you see guys making a mechanical adjustment anymore to have better command. Once you are a high level athlete mechanical changes are all so slight and minimal that I don’t believe they have this massive amount of pull on your command. For me it all falls back on what I’m thinking or ultimately not thinking. We’ve all heard of the term “flow state” and different ideas on what that means but really it’s just the ability to be loose and let go of all tension without consciously telling yourself to be that way and perform the way you’re performing. I’m fully bought in on internal tension/hesitation/ not being fully committed to the current pitch being a massive reason for command issues. I’ve experienced it first hand that whenever I’m distracted or not ready to throw a pitch and I still do my command usually tanks. Loved the vid 👊🏻👊🏻
I think visualization is the most important element of command. When it is done subconsciously is when it is most effective. All other mentioned things are elements in the overall picture. But the most important element is mental. Overall, an excellent and thoughtful video.
from what ive seen and heard it comes down to how comfortable the pitcher feels and how well he can actually SEE the target, also when it comes to velocity and mechanics, all that really matters is fast hip rotation, hip shoulder separation, and some sort of lead leg block. and u can have any way of throwing but as long as those 3 are met you will throw quite hard
Definitely a wild statement lol I always thought it was mechanics and coached as such but always new in the back of my mind there were other factors. Coached youth ball for 10+ years and researched mechanics quite a bit including the different mechanics of MLB pitchers like Lincecum (with his ferris wheel delivery), Trevor Bauer and Mark Prior (lead leg hard down and directly out) and trying to determine which was "best" (as if a best existed). "he's a natural" maybe "it's in his DNA", hand/finger pressure, physiological, hormones...etc as you mentioned. This is a challenging topic, good on you for even attempting it
It’s super challenging to approach, that’s part of the reason why I wanted too. I think organizing thoughts is important, even if futile to some extent. Appreciate your input. I think bucketing is a solid way to approach things from a “let’s get you moving efficiently to the right spots at the right times.” Now as to whether that actually connect back to command … idk. Probably doesn’t hurt? Maybe doesn’t help much?
Love that theory! Quiet eye stuff is big for 3pt shooting and I imagine it has some connection to hitter’s fixation points, right? I could totally see some connection back to command
Mechanics have a ton to do with it, but if you think mechanics are some standard set of movements you won't be able to concept how to adjust for better control. Nobody is going to queue you into better control unless you came up with the queue. Timing is still part of mechanics and rhythm helps maintain consistent timing. Movement in the delivery is made up of linear and rotational directions, timing allows you to release at the point where you don't mess up where the ball goes based on where you expect it to go. You have to figure it out but to do so you need to know by feel what your body is doing and that is by knowing your mechanics. Most athletes aren't that cerebral or self aware, they want someone else to give them the answer, so they latch on to either simply "fixing" mechanics or focus/mental exercises
I think I saw that “mechanics” are more correlates with Velo then Command. The idea being that things we can measure(hip shoulder separation, extension, arm velocity) but I don’t remember where I saw the study. I think command is so dependent on environmental factors too. If you are pitching in a high stuff environment(such as Tampa bay) it is harder to have great command since the average movement of your pitchers is higher
I know it’s something eno saris has talked about, but quantifying command is hard from a modeling perspective because just missing isn’t inherently bad, depending on where the miss
Trustworthy mechanics achieve improved command and velocity while mitigating the risk of injury SIMULTANEOUSLY. However, everyone in the pitching community thinks it’s impossible to accomplish all three in one stroke, which I've done since 1996. At one point, I had up to 47 private lessons per week. I successfully taught them to throw with command and increasing velocity while keeping them from getting injured as long as they stuck to what I taught them. My lessons had to be a half hour long to deal with the demand. Pitchers I’ve developed since 1996 is a streamlined process achieving all three topics in one stroke mentioned above, which will raise questions or statements such as, "How’s that even possible?” or, “That’s impossible!” or “That’s too good to be true.” I anticipate many will ask, “How have your pitchers fend as they go to college or are drafted with your methodology?” As soon as they set foot on a college or minor league field and pitch for the first time in front of their coaches, they immediately alter what I’ve developed in these pitchers, in many cases, from when they were 9 through high school. When I talked to them while they were in college, I told them to explain to their coaches the reasons why they pitch the way they do, which is to, first, protect from injury. 99.9% of their coaches say you pitch how I want you to, or you won't pitch much. As I continue to witness all this back and forth by those in the pitching industry, I see that they think there is no such thing as sound mechanics or that command is a mystery, which is a bunch of nonsense. Greg Maddux’s (the greatest command and defensive pitcher of all time, with 4 consecutive CY Young awards from 1992 to 1995 and 18 Gold Glove awards, the most Gold Glove awards in MLB history) pitching motion holds the secret to sound mechanics and command. Still, no one can figure it out, probably because he wasn’t a flame thrower, which is a high percentage of them in this era, so no one is interested in studying his mechanics. In addition, he never injured his UCL or shoulder in his 23 year career. Let me go on to say that if you are a flame or a puss thrower, you can throw with command and increased velocity while mitigating injury. The author says, “I heard a story recently that came to the conclusion mechanics are really not connected to command and execution on a pitch-to-pitch level at all, and that it is a relatively complex question.” First of all, this is total nonsense; mechanics are directly connected to command. Whoever told him that story must have been a data-driven guru who doesn’t have a solid physics foundation. This is not a complex question since I’ve had the answer to the TJ enigma while improving command and velocity in one stroke. I came up with the answers while applying physics principles and structural engineering methods I obtained at the University of Arizona. Data are just numbers worth the paper they are printed on, and that’s it. So, there’s much grasping at straws in trying to come up with topics, such as one in this piece, thinking that a data-driven solution is what's needed, which I know will not work because it hasn’t come up with a solution for more than 3 decades in solving the TJ injury riddle; what makes you think it will solve the command issue? I can't hit the thumb-down button on this piece since it won't record it. Also, if the author of this piece may think I’m off my rocker will probably delete my commentary. I understand he is looking for content for his channel, and you get what you can, but choose content where you can weed out falsehoods on what you have better knowledge of to do so.
If there is a baseline point of command, I think it is less mechanical than like a high schooler who has really herky jerky mechanics that lower command and don't really do much for their stuff/ deception, they could really benefit from some mechanics smoothing to help command.
Sure, there's definitely variance there. Unsure if perceptable to the naked eye, but I wouldn't put it past pitchers to be able to feel out anomalies. That feels somewhat uncontrollable, however? So no real way to train around it / improve, which was kind of my focus here.
Its the same thing as trying to draw a circle the same way over and over on a piece of paper. Youre not gonna focus on how you draw the circle, youre just gonna practice drawing the same circle. You get better at throwing a baseball by throwing a baseball With the tread athletics video, I dont think this is the same as completely changing mechanics though, as all youre doing is just changing where you want to throw the ball i guess. So i will say if a pitcher is constantly missing in a spot then its a little different than the topic of this video.
I can only speak as an amateur pitcher but first Steph Curry misses his spots too. Sometimes you're just off. In amateur not being on the same page as the catcher and feeling squeezed by the ump, effect me. But I've pitched for so long I can mechanical things quickly now, and have a stoicism i just didn't when I was younger. As for MLB pitchers I'm constantly blown away at how they throw darts pitch after pitch. There are very few mistakes
This video first didn't state objectives clearly but can be inferred by listening to the entire video and then describes data collection problems but doesn't offer any solutions but maybe that is because he personally doesn't know of any possible solution. It's interesting to know limitations of current methodology and that can be useful. It sounds like the expectation is to develop an understanding of pitching mechanics which can be transferred from one player to another but considering the limitations of data collection is not possible. But that doesn't mean that self improvement for an individual isn't possible. Rather, an idea or practice by another player or more can be suggested but not as a surefire solution but as a possibility that can be tried. That's a great improvement to verify trying randomly without rhyme or reason. And, the idea that there might be a larger influence on positive psychological thinking rather than actual mechanical performance is just fine, the mind can subconsciously coordinate the minute actions and adjustments needed than conscious thought sometimes But the main reason of pitching mechanics everyone can agree upon is to enable repeatability To improve in anything, you first have to establish a baseline and then to incrementally alter the process.
I mean, the most consistently dominant pitcher, who had fantastic control, and never got hurt on the mound is Mariano Rivera. And He probably had the best mechanics ever.that
"Best mechanics ever" question is a fun one. For some reason, I kind of doubt it was Rivera? One-pitch guy and a reliever (the best singular pitch of all time, yes). But I don't think it can be a reliever given how important longevity and innings are in this equation. Also difficult to determine what "best" means? Most energy sent through chain (this would have a strong correlation to velocity)? Lowest level of variance in mechanics pitch to pitch (as discussed, we really don't know if this matters in relation to command)?
I’m a college d1 pitcher. I’ve been down both routes of training where command is all about focus and concentration and also looking at command mechanically. In my experience command is a blend of things. Most of command is rhythm and timing. If you have a consistent miss in a certain area it’s likely mechanical. If you have really poor command, working on repeatability, better timing could be good for mechanics. But at a certain point it becomes more about focus and concentration
Like the focus/concentration angle! Thanks for sharing 👍
From a personal standpoint and talking with other pitchers, I think fatigue or how your feeling that day plays a bigger part in control then people think. Any pitcher who is an above or average control guy will say sleep/recovery being good plays a role in hitting spots that day consistently. You can be fatigued and not feel ur best and still have the same mechanics. To pitchers who just struggle in general with command idk id say finger pressure is huge.
I’d be curious to see sleep studies on athletes for a variety of reasons.
My main issue with your logical here is what you’d consider “fatigue.” If it’s connected to any body part moving slower, then it will likely be connected to velocity. So this is a pretty easy thing to measure on literally baseball savant.
If you’re talking more nuanced fatigue causing body sequencing to be off, that is also something I’d think a team would pick up on Hawkeye/Kinatrax.
So I think I get what you’re saying? I just think command wouldn’t be too relevant if the pitcher is down 1-3 mph off their average
@@LanceBrozya I agree with your thinking. But through whoop scores and oura rings that most guys use we all have come to believing that when we have bad recovery scores it actually affects the command more than velo. I think velo simply comes from how loose you feel that day or if u slept on your back weird stuff like that. The CNS obviously plays probably the bigger part. But I mean who knows we didn’t do a study or anything just all of us noticed strike% more heavily correlated with recovery scores then velo. (Or Whoop and aura rings r bs lol)
This channel is gold
Appreciate it!
Minor leaguer with the mets. I’ve got a couple thoughts on this. I think the large majority of command has to do with the combination of mechanics but mostly with the mind. Mechanics have changed so much over the years that now it’s all about how to increase velocity. Rarely to you see guys making a mechanical adjustment anymore to have better command. Once you are a high level athlete mechanical changes are all so slight and minimal that I don’t believe they have this massive amount of pull on your command. For me it all falls back on what I’m thinking or ultimately not thinking. We’ve all heard of the term “flow state” and different ideas on what that means but really it’s just the ability to be loose and let go of all tension without consciously telling yourself to be that way and perform the way you’re performing. I’m fully bought in on internal tension/hesitation/ not being fully committed to the current pitch being a massive reason for command issues. I’ve experienced it first hand that whenever I’m distracted or not ready to throw a pitch and I still do my command usually tanks. Loved the vid 👊🏻👊🏻
I think visualization is the most important element of command. When it is done subconsciously is when it is most effective. All other mentioned things are elements in the overall picture. But the most important element is mental.
Overall, an excellent and thoughtful video.
Thanks! I’ve heard from a lot of people who think it’s mental more than anything once you hit a baseline of efficiency. I think it makes sense 👍
from what ive seen and heard it comes down to how comfortable the pitcher feels and how well he can actually SEE the target, also when it comes to velocity and mechanics, all that really matters is fast hip rotation, hip shoulder separation, and some sort of lead leg block. and u can have any way of throwing but as long as those 3 are met you will throw quite hard
Definitely a wild statement lol
I always thought it was mechanics and coached as such but always new in the back of my mind there were other factors.
Coached youth ball for 10+ years and researched mechanics quite a bit including the different mechanics of MLB pitchers like Lincecum (with his ferris wheel delivery), Trevor Bauer and Mark Prior (lead leg hard down and directly out) and trying to determine which was "best" (as if a best existed).
"he's a natural" maybe "it's in his DNA", hand/finger pressure, physiological, hormones...etc as you mentioned.
This is a challenging topic, good on you for even attempting it
It’s super challenging to approach, that’s part of the reason why I wanted too. I think organizing thoughts is important, even if futile to some extent.
Appreciate your input. I think bucketing is a solid way to approach things from a “let’s get you moving efficiently to the right spots at the right times.”
Now as to whether that actually connect back to command … idk. Probably doesn’t hurt? Maybe doesn’t help much?
@@LanceBroz Really enjoy your work and looking forward to any follow-ups on this.
no doubt in my mind youre gonna be working for an mlb org someday
your videos are top notch
Appreciate it haha
most underrated channel on TH-cam
Appreciate you
My personal belief is that command and control has a lot to do with eyesight, the quiet eye studies seem back up that theory
Love that theory! Quiet eye stuff is big for 3pt shooting and I imagine it has some connection to hitter’s fixation points, right? I could totally see some connection back to command
Mechanics have a ton to do with it, but if you think mechanics are some standard set of movements you won't be able to concept how to adjust for better control. Nobody is going to queue you into better control unless you came up with the queue. Timing is still part of mechanics and rhythm helps maintain consistent timing. Movement in the delivery is made up of linear and rotational directions, timing allows you to release at the point where you don't mess up where the ball goes based on where you expect it to go. You have to figure it out but to do so you need to know by feel what your body is doing and that is by knowing your mechanics. Most athletes aren't that cerebral or self aware, they want someone else to give them the answer, so they latch on to either simply "fixing" mechanics or focus/mental exercises
I think I saw that “mechanics” are more correlates with Velo then Command. The idea being that things we can measure(hip shoulder separation, extension, arm velocity) but I don’t remember where I saw the study. I think command is so dependent on environmental factors too. If you are pitching in a high stuff environment(such as Tampa bay) it is harder to have great command since the average movement of your pitchers is higher
I know it’s something eno saris has talked about, but quantifying command is hard from a modeling perspective because just missing isn’t inherently bad, depending on where the miss
I love this sort of stuff I wonder how people get jobs like this in an orginization. Great video!
Trustworthy mechanics achieve improved command and velocity while mitigating the risk of injury SIMULTANEOUSLY. However, everyone in the pitching community thinks it’s impossible to accomplish all three in one stroke, which I've done since 1996.
At one point, I had up to 47 private lessons per week. I successfully taught them to throw with command and increasing velocity while keeping them from getting injured as long as they stuck to what I taught them. My lessons had to be a half hour long to deal with the demand.
Pitchers I’ve developed since 1996 is a streamlined process achieving all three topics in one stroke mentioned above, which will raise questions or statements such as, "How’s that even possible?” or, “That’s impossible!” or “That’s too good to be true.”
I anticipate many will ask, “How have your pitchers fend as they go to college or are drafted with your methodology?” As soon as they set foot on a college or minor league field and pitch for the first time in front of their coaches, they immediately alter what I’ve developed in these pitchers, in many cases, from when they were 9 through high school. When I talked to them while they were in college, I told them to explain to their coaches the reasons why they pitch the way they do, which is to, first, protect from injury. 99.9% of their coaches say you pitch how I want you to, or you won't pitch much.
As I continue to witness all this back and forth by those in the pitching industry, I see that they think there is no such thing as sound mechanics or that command is a mystery, which is a bunch of nonsense. Greg Maddux’s (the greatest command and defensive pitcher of all time, with 4 consecutive CY Young awards from 1992 to 1995 and 18 Gold Glove awards, the most Gold Glove awards in MLB history) pitching motion holds the secret to sound mechanics and command. Still, no one can figure it out, probably because he wasn’t a flame thrower, which is a high percentage of them in this era, so no one is interested in studying his mechanics. In addition, he never injured his UCL or shoulder in his 23 year career. Let me go on to say that if you are a flame or a puss thrower, you can throw with command and increased velocity while mitigating injury.
The author says, “I heard a story recently that came to the conclusion mechanics are really not connected to command and execution on a pitch-to-pitch level at all, and that it is a relatively complex question.”
First of all, this is total nonsense; mechanics are directly connected to command. Whoever told him that story must have been a data-driven guru who doesn’t have a solid physics foundation. This is not a complex question since I’ve had the answer to the TJ enigma while improving command and velocity in one stroke. I came up with the answers while applying physics principles and structural engineering methods I obtained at the University of Arizona. Data are just numbers worth the paper they are printed on, and that’s it.
So, there’s much grasping at straws in trying to come up with topics, such as one in this piece, thinking that a data-driven solution is what's needed, which I know will not work because it hasn’t come up with a solution for more than 3 decades in solving the TJ injury riddle; what makes you think it will solve the command issue? I can't hit the thumb-down button on this piece since it won't record it. Also, if the author of this piece may think I’m off my rocker will probably delete my commentary. I understand he is looking for content for his channel, and you get what you can, but choose content where you can weed out falsehoods on what you have better knowledge of to do so.
If there is a baseline point of command, I think it is less mechanical than like a high schooler who has really herky jerky mechanics that lower command and don't really do much for their stuff/ deception, they could really benefit from some mechanics smoothing to help command.
Could it also be imperfections in each individual baseball? These are handmade at the pro level after all
Sure, there's definitely variance there. Unsure if perceptable to the naked eye, but I wouldn't put it past pitchers to be able to feel out anomalies. That feels somewhat uncontrollable, however? So no real way to train around it / improve, which was kind of my focus here.
Its the same thing as trying to draw a circle the same way over and over on a piece of paper. Youre not gonna focus on how you draw the circle, youre just gonna practice drawing the same circle. You get better at throwing a baseball by throwing a baseball
With the tread athletics video, I dont think this is the same as completely changing mechanics though, as all youre doing is just changing where you want to throw the ball i guess. So i will say if a pitcher is constantly missing in a spot then its a little different than the topic of this video.
I can only speak as an amateur pitcher but first Steph Curry misses his spots too. Sometimes you're just off. In amateur not being on the same page as the catcher and feeling squeezed by the ump, effect me. But I've pitched for so long I can mechanical things quickly now, and have a stoicism i just didn't when I was younger. As for MLB pitchers I'm constantly blown away at how they throw darts pitch after pitch. There are very few mistakes
This video first didn't state objectives clearly but can be inferred by listening to the entire video and then describes data collection problems but doesn't offer any solutions but maybe that is because he personally doesn't know of any possible solution.
It's interesting to know limitations of current methodology and that can be useful. It sounds like the expectation is to develop an understanding of pitching mechanics which can be transferred from one player to another but considering the limitations of data collection is not possible. But that doesn't mean that self improvement for an individual isn't possible. Rather, an idea or practice by another player or more can be suggested but not as a surefire solution but as a possibility that can be tried. That's a great improvement to verify trying randomly without rhyme or reason. And, the idea that there might be a larger influence on positive psychological thinking rather than actual mechanical performance is just fine, the mind can subconsciously coordinate the minute actions and adjustments needed than conscious thought sometimes
But the main reason of pitching mechanics everyone can agree upon is to enable repeatability To improve in anything, you first have to establish a baseline and then to incrementally alter the process.
Is this an AI-generated response? Lol
I have no idea what you’re trying to say
They need more fidelity, which is a similar issue you see in training AI.
I mean, the most consistently dominant pitcher, who had fantastic control, and never got hurt on the mound is Mariano Rivera. And He probably had the best mechanics ever.that
"Best mechanics ever" question is a fun one. For some reason, I kind of doubt it was Rivera? One-pitch guy and a reliever (the best singular pitch of all time, yes). But I don't think it can be a reliever given how important longevity and innings are in this equation.
Also difficult to determine what "best" means? Most energy sent through chain (this would have a strong correlation to velocity)? Lowest level of variance in mechanics pitch to pitch (as discussed, we really don't know if this matters in relation to command)?
RELEASE POINT PERIOD.
What does he think about Trevor Bauer...