Mikey Fremer vs Ask Paul
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Analog Planet and Stereophile reviewer Michael Fremer tackles the question Paul posed earlier: distortion in vinyl? If you love Mikey Fremer as much as we do, you're going to want to watch this video. Classic!
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He speaks 100 mph but you can't stop listening him. Distortion or not 😂
The audible distortion is to prove his point
He spews nothing but a distortion of reality.
Mike is the best.
i stopped listening to him after one sentence
I love Michael Fremer's reviews. I love my PS Audio gear. Two icons.
25-30yrs ago I owned a high end CD player, Pioneer PD91 (£900 new). I had auditioned many players before I purchased it and it beat all comers, even machines costing more than three times as much. I was totally into CD and had a large music collection.
One fateful day I visited a friend and listened to his vinyl setup. Pink Triangle Export, Rega RB250 and Audio Technica OC5 run into a Rotel preamp. It totally blew the Pioneer out of the water.
I immediately went out and purchased a decent deck of my own and have barely played a CD since.
Luckily a local second hand record store did me a deal where they swapped my CDs for the same albums on vinyl at no extra cost, often I got two records in exchange for one CD. Imagine that happening today.
"Don't let anybody tell you what to think, but I'm going to tell you what to think..." WTF is that? There are so many variables in the signal chain, that there IS NO MAGIC BULLET TO GREAT SOUND. Once you get past that, mastering plays a major role in sound quality. Even if you have a great system, bad mastering makes all that time, effort and expense a total waste. I have records that sound amazing and ones that sound like crap. I have CD's the sound great and ones that sound like crap. SO, listen and collect whatever makes you happy, and ENJOY THE MUSIC!
As they say in the computer world, garbage in, garbage out.
I think Mikey was applying the ol' "audiophile" psychology. It's so engrained in some, they're beyond realizing they even do it.
@@ToadStool942 The problem is red book is a glass ceiling. On a great system vinyl and tape leaves it behind.
@@UberPilot Actually, you do err. The glass ceiling is not with redbook or most any reasonable format but rather with the playback system itself. But you're close. Well, not really. :)
@@ToadStool942 Name the CD player that will beat a hi end table. Doesn’t exist. I’ve seen the best one made demoed and than he put in the LP and crushed it. Show me a CD that will beat the Flock of Seagulls (first pressing) when it comes to rhythm timing and pacing. Doesn’t exist. Some day.
Awesome analog vs digital explanation! Thank you Michael Fremer!
You brought an album to Audio Advice “Music Matters” show a couple years ago in Charlotte and played it in a small room and we all just about fainted. No one could leave that room until the manager came and said we’re closing the store and turning out the lights. I’ll never forget us six guys with you in that room and that music that was produced. Thank you!
Please please come back to Charlotte soon!
Best,
Mark
What an audiophile calls an upgrade, an engineer calls an eq change!
I am a vinyl guy, bought my first LP's in the eighties. Fortunately I never got rid of them. What the technology of today gets out of the grooves amazes me. To put it plainly: you don't need very expensive stuff. A vintage (rim drive) turntable in good shape, a nice cartridge (jico sas needle is a budget tip) and a modern tube phono preamp. This will in my subjective view outperform any commercialy available digital format, including streaming of course, with ease ... just give it a try. Does vinyl ad distortion? Who cares, if even DSD doesn't come close. Once you have fallen in love with vinyl, you will start to collect it. 😀❤️
Nostalgia isn't associated with objective science
>budget tip
>almost 300 bucks
@@passengerseed We are talking about thousands of bucks for ultra high end mc cartridges. In comparison, for what you get soundwise from the jico sas, it's budget imho. My latest tip would be the Audio Technica AT VM95ML for around 160 bucks.
@@engineeringvision9507 Correct. But if objective science doesn't sound good to your ears, you have a problem. Otherwise of course, all is fine. So be it, I don't care.
Now we need a video explaining what to look for in a quality turntable.
it is cartridge that makes sound and is the most important thing on a turntable you ask me. There are wires directly from the needle housing to the rca plugs without any electronics.
a very good turntable without a good cartridge does not give good sound. so the cartridge is the most important thing on a turntable
That's why there's analogplanet and Stereophile!
@@AnalogPlanet Have you heard a Tru-Glider standalone tonearm from Integrity Hifi in Canada yet?
Already a bunch of those. Including some from this Guy
@@60zeller everybody has a reply. I can't find the videos you speak of.
I do find it weird that as far back as 1987 and until now, there are still people who believe that anything with over 0.1 % total harmonic distortion autoatically is "bad sounding". Most of the time without even listening to the actual amp in action.
Same with wow and flutter.
If w&f is over 5% people automatically say it's "bad sounding".
@@QoraxAudio Without (hopefully cheap) turmtables with high wow and flutter, there would probably no genre of music known as Funk.
Groundhog Day?
Great!! Thanks for this. My two favourite audio gurus!
Never thoughtI would do this!
As a kid I was given Manilow Live I ve listened to it for years on all types of turntables maily lower end equipment I still don't own anything considered hi end, but I have to admit I do listen to it on Spotify and still find myself choosing the LPs (even after all the years of playing them and mishandling them incorrectly) to listen too first there's just something missing from the sound. So if its due to distortion, ok!
Gotta love Mikey’s passion. ❤️
Great to see you doing a presentation again....so miss these bits!
Michael has also gone quiet on the Analog Planet channel, an upload per month
Yep, there are people you can listened to forever. Fremer fascinates.
Mikeys stories, hilarious as ever! 🤣 Love the vinyl sound of my Transrotor ZET 3/Audio Mods Classic II/Audio Technica VM540ML/Graham Slee Reflex M2 "Era Gold" system much much more than any digital format btw. 🙂
Thank you for your time. Very inspirational and educating!
Love Michaels choice of vinyl 👌 Dr Lonnie Smith.
All of this is "recording dependent". As each recording , does have it's own signature; regardless of the format. We're just hacking thru the Audio Jungle, in the hopes of finding some "nuggets" of "real music".
Yet, you still have to get up every 18 minutes to turn the damn record over! Primitive!
@@edthefirst2859 - "Oh ! the Humanity ! " lol
That is the calmest I have ever seen Mr Fremer. All of my (very few) LPs sound very crisp and clean, but a few REALLY pop out a super detailed sound stage, and shimmering voices (human and instrument). I like the interface with Vinyl, but I listen to Digital on Thumb drives in my car. I put on my Pink Floyd Wish you were here LP, when Shine on you crazy diamond plays, David Gilmore's guitar just sings, and the room is filled with the music. Some other LPs sound good but not magic, but I have not had a CD come alive like PF WYWH, or Diana Krall VBof. I am sure that a very high end transport and well mastered SACD might equal what I here. I have a pretty basic system Rega Planar 2, Sprout 100, Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 (on stands) Infinity subs.
Aha. Cause you are vinyl fan and spend zero money on good cd player and finding good cd releases?
" LPs sound very crisp and clean" Hahaha, no no no no no.
I have pretty good vinyl setup, and even just as good setup for digital. Digital always, ALWAYS outperform the vinyl.
That these guys claim to hear the difference, of course they do, this is super easy, because it is super easy to hear how lo-fi should sound. Get real!
Mikey F is not the first person that I have heard complaining about a "Generator Transfer Switch" adding garbage to the inside power distribution. Over the years, as an electrician i did many call outs to try fixing them.
Most expensive way is to add a HUGE Lorin Rectifier unit wired into a Battery backup and a DC to AC Inverter and run the house off this filtered power. $25,000++
Cheapest fix was to bypass the Auto switch and put a 50/70/100 Amp breaker (Based on Gen Wattage size) in the main panel and a positive interlock to lock out the Gen breaker until a power outage. Then on an outage you must throw the main 200 Amp Breaker, slide the interlock over to lock out the main, start the Gen set and turn the 50/70/100 amp breaker on. $600+
Wow, lost track of time n watched the whole thing. Fascinating. Thanks Paul (and vinyl friend).
Mikey pleasure and informative as ever!
You are a walking wakeup call 😄 Michael Fremer you are a joy
I can appreciate where Mr. Fremer is coming from and his long tenure as an audiophile, but he comes across as angry and defensive. I prefer Paul’s much more amiable and approachable tone.
Let me 'splain: when my battery powered preamplifier is "off" it produces a hum through the speakers. I turned it off and shot the video not paying attention to the hum. Listeners heard it. Paul EQ'd and reposted the video so now there's no hum but I sound like I'm in a tin can....it happens.
That's why my comment disappeared I left you.
I was wondering have you tried the new valve amplifiers switch mode power supply on the Manley Labs amplifiers on the lathes, it's much superior should give a better sound quality on the lacquer.
Did you say you had a transformer before on your mains? you should use two site transformers and some run capacitor, 1 transformer at 5 kVA second one at 3.3 kVA both with 5 run capacitors at 100uF at 440v in parallel on the primary coils, outputting 32 amps. To your equipment. And use dedicated lines for neutral and earth and have a suppressor on the Earths. And make sure the site Transformers are filled with transformer oil
I thought we were getting some comments from Michael Fremer? There appears to be a long haired hippy in his listening room🤣🤣🤣🤣👍🤣
I've read through all the comments at the time of this post. Some of you get it but it seems as though most of you don't. I know Mikey can be long-winded as can Paul. Primary point taken to this video is: if you prefer streaming hi-rez do it, if you prefer listening to CD`s do it and if you prefer listening to vinyl then do it. Mikey prefers vinyl as do I. It's not about which format is better or why this format is better than that one. It's about which one you prefer. In the end, it's all about the music.
Digital needs somehow needs to add 0.5 or even 0.3 Digital are just 1 & 0's . Then you would get the reverb & eco into the sound. - 0.3 - 0 - 1- 1.3 ..vinyl recordings accidentally did it. That's why digital is SO complicated. They are forever trying to get something back which isn't there . I maybe simplifying things a bit. CRAZY ! Look at the price of the Techdas Zero turntable......And digital too! MSB Select Dac etc..... Crazy prices... Thanks Peter & thanks Michael. It would be nice to come back in 500 years time,and see what's around. The Tecdas Turntable & MSB Das will be in a museum somewhere...
My son just walked in the room and thought this guy was Jerry Springer and then about 10 minutes later my wife comes in to tell us that supper is ready and said the exact same thing.
Have been a big vinyl fan since the 70's,I have Tidal streaming and I still like my vinyl first.
Not me. On tidal no pops and tics and having to turn a damn record over every 15 minutes!
A year after Michael recorded this video which he use the term “sterile“ with regard to digital recordings, I started to use the same term never hearing this video until now. I thought I was a lone voice crying out into the wilderness but I see that Michael uses the same term popped into my head just recently. I have to say it sounds somewhat erie
Totally makes sense that every step of recording etc adds distortion.
Fremer makes very good points, especially about production / recording choices often deliberately involve tubes. I think he's right that people often pretend to be purists but then neglect to include the complete audio chain. I also agree that vinyl can sound incredible, perhaps even better than singe-rate DSD given the right material (and an absurdly hi-fi vinyl setup). Nevertheless, some material is better suited to digital than to vinyl, particularly music that is very difficult to track in the sub-bass regions. Of course, we must also acknowledge the deleterious effect of wear upon high frequency fidelity, however gradual and subtle.
All that notwithstanding, my biggest reason for loving SACD is actually the incredible resolution and soundstaging possible with a good multichannel setup. Vinyl might sound subtly better on some material in some cases, but multichannel hi-res has 2.5 times more information than stereo, added nonlinearly with all the phase information included properly. There is no adequate comparison between pure DSD 5.0 multichannel and the best stereo vinyl can achieve -- they are totally different experiences. Of course, most people pour oodles of money into achieving the best stereo playback possible, but an excellent DSD multichannel experience can be had for mid-fi money that is in another league. Granted, people who are only interested in rock, pop, etc. will be hard-pressed to find any true DSD multichannel recordings, but for classical, there's no competition.
My experience partially parallels yours. In most genres I generally prefer the sound of lps on my turntable setup up to the same recordings on my SACD/CD player (a comparably high-end player to the turntable/tonearm/cart setup), regardless of the digital format- whether it be rock, jazz, 'world music,' R & B, or the like.
For large classical orchestral recordings, however, I often prefer the digital format, especially SACD, in re. to its potentially greater nuance in presenting the 'high density' of musical info in such works, plus the intense dynamics and extended frequency range of such recordings- especially since for vinyl to reasonably compete in this genre it generally needs to be a higher-quality recording and better-condition lp (and most used lps bought online or in stores are just not in such great shape). My SACD listening is all in stereo, as that's my setup, so my preference is not based upon the multi-channel capability of various classical music SACDS.
Wow, that was a fast 19 minutes! I was captivated! ☮️🖖🏽
Ok, I am sure you’re right, but…….can you hear these differences with a $500. Turntable with a Ortofon Red cartridge, vs a really good cd!!!???
Soon as this Emma Demi gets over Mikey can't wait for the next videos that you put out miss you a lot God bless🙏🎸🎵🎼
Great video! Not often that someone posts or even knows about Analog to digital in real terms. I do A to D since 2000 and it opens up a whole new perspective on listening to and comparing music quality.
Audiophiles are always listening to the final product. The magic actually happens four stages before during the initial recording process. If I recorded a program completely digital (with the exception of analog preamps and limiters which are often standard procedure) then mastered it on to vinyl, this guy would say the record sounds so much better. What made the records of decades ago sound so good was the extremely high amounts of distortion introduced into the initial recording process 'off the floor.' A single input strip of a Neve 1073 composed of lead can weigh 10lbs-- that's a lot of distortion. Finally, the REAL distortion comes with the magnetic tape recorder itself. It's huge and that's what makes it sound great.
I love ripping Vinyl to DSD...the music has no digital harshness or brightness but still has that Vinyl warmth...just my ears, happy ears.....no vinyl inconveniences ...
Fantastic bit! Loved the enthusiasm.
I have a problem with the video: can’t afford the space for the vinyl library let alon the library itself. In other words: many of us need high quality recordings that take little physical space. Streaming services make a great deal of sense. I do wish they sounded as good as the original quality recordings.
Let’s put the records mentioned in the description please, thanks.
I love Michael Fremer! Now I'm going to check out the PS Audio power plant...for that plug he gave your P15 and P20, you should gift it no charge to Michael!!!
I liked when the ps audio power plant was affordable... now it’s CRAZY expensive!
Married to a home inspector, I have seen firsthand the flaws in most homes electrical systems. No problem running a toaster, but not a high end audio system. I agree that a regenerator is more expensive than perhaps it needs to be, but think about the cost of bringing in a dedicated power line. The better your gear is the more it will benefit from clean power. Maybe you are among the lucky few who already enjoy relatively clean power. I bought a P15 and have never regretted it.
This vid is giving me deja vu. Or, is this real life Groudhogs Day? I still think it’s great and am a huge fan of Mr. Mikey Fremer, so I’m not gonna overthink this one....
Same with me. Perhaps he didn't feel fully represented yesterday.
Just a glitch in the matrix.
@@amitraam1270 OMG You don't mean "Distortion" We can't have that.
When I saw this pop up I was thinking haven't I seen this already?
@@jeremytravis360 Always fully represent twice, regardless of how one’s first representation went. (or so I’ve heard) I think? I dunno. lol
My two favourite audio TH-camrs, I have followed Michael for several years, think we exchanged emails a few times and he seems a great guy, lost count of the recordings he has introduced me to.
It is true that vinyl has the potential to sound better than super audio CD as a recording format but comparing apples to apples for the price point of the playback unit is where the question stands.
But Mike couldn’t be more correct. Anyone who believes that digital is near vinyl hasn’t listened to a decent vinyl rig. I’ve listened to vinyl for 50 years. And still going strong. Vinyl rules!
* I've just been Fremerized!! Thank You, Mike. *
That was informative sir about vinyl vs cd's.
I never knew it all along..
And you've got a great collections, I guess it has a great value now a days.
Examples are plenty of a vinyl version sounding better than a CD version but it's mostly about the CD version being poorly mastered. It's especially a bummer to realize when a digital ADC recorded version of a vinyl playback sounds better than the actual CD version.
This is a actually true even in hi res but using adaptive, reconstruction filters, interpolation and accurate clocking it gets reduced massively.
Well, my previous comment will now have been lost, since this was reposted. To summarize - I'm sure Mikey is a really nice guy, and I certainly don't want to make any personal attacks. What I will say is this - we were just lectured about how good Vinyl is by a guy standing next to a record deck costing HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. If that doesn't put some perspective on things, I don't know what does. Further, the content of this video insinuates that Vinyl is always better than digital (though Mikey would deny it does). This is nonsense. There are far too many variables.
Mikey also compares his pristine first press Vinyl with "commercial files". This ignores the true arbiter of good and bad - the mastering. If you compare the best of Vinyl against the worst of digital, then vinyl will always sound better. It's obvious. But it's not completely honest. People like Mikey never consider the negatives of Vinyl. Negatives such as bass response getting worse as the stylus moves toward the center of the disc, sometimes altering the track running order to accommodate it. The limited running time where edits are made to tracks simply to fit the format (something terrible which happened in Jazz). The difficulty in getting silence - which may well be doable with brand new 180g Vinyl, but overall it can be difficult). The limited running time breaking up pieces (my favorite piece of music is Steve Reich's Music for 18 Musicians, and it usually runs 50+ minutes as one track).
I could go on. However, I want to mention one final thing. Far too many people into vinyl complain that digital does not sound like preferred medium, which is usually phrased as "not as good as" etc. Well, that's the problem. Digital can do MORE than Vinyl ever could - so why would I want it to necessarily sound like Vinyl? If you frame of reference is the Vinyl, then digital will likely always lose out. Because it may well be different. For me, the goal isn't to sound like Vinyl, it's to sound BETTER than Vinyl, better in the sense that I want it to take advantage of everything digital offers.
Still, we're being lectured by a guy standing in a room surrounded by stacks of Vinyl (duh, I wonder what he prefers......) and as I've said, is standing next to a deck costing half a million dollars. So if you're looking for an unbiased opinion, you clearly aren't getting it here. My go-to is the best MASTERING of a recording. There are very very good digital releases. There are a lot of terrible releases. But just as Vinyl heads seek out specific pressings, so digital fans will seek out the best release. We're at least united in our love of music.
I'm reviewing it. It's my job. Would you say the same about a car reviewer standing next to a Ferrari? I'm not sure what your point is.
@@AnalogPlanet Do some analog/vinyl recordings sound better than digital? Yes. Many older recordings were made at a time when there was limited technology available to manipulate the recordings, hence the pleasant natural sound. Do many digital recordings sound horrible? Yes. The over engineering to make the recording sound better on a car radio is to blame. Many audiophiles then jump to the conclusion that poor sound is down to the format. A well recorded and engineered CD cannot be beaten.
Does vinyl add distortion? Yes, of course it does, and not just compression. Reduced bandwith. Reduced channel separation. Tracking error distortion, wow and flutter, rumble, surface noise increasing with each play. If you prefer the sound of this 150 year old technology, a bit of rock scraping on a rotating surface, then go for it and enjoy. I was glad to see the back of it.
@@AnalogPlanet Here's the problem I have with vinyl compared to digital formats today. I would have to spend considerably more money on a turntable, tone arm, cartridge and phono preamp than I have invested in my streaming setup to get better sound. The other thing is the convenience of streaming music and being able to sit down and listen for hours without getting up to flip the record over or to change records. I have a turntable and some albums that I occasionally listen to, but they don't sound better to me than streaming. So unless money is no object, I will stick with a high quality streaming service and the associated equipment to listen to music that way. I'm sure that half million dollar turntable sounds fantastic! But who has that kind of money? Not many people have 5, 10, or 15 thousand to spend on a turntable setup either. I do get it though. I grew up listening to vinyl as a young man back in the 80's. However, as digital formats have evolved and improved over the years, vinyl just seems antiquated to me. Just my opinion, enjoyed the video.
Why would you want to digitalize vinyl records and tapes? The signal then goes through a DAC which it turns back to analog plus added crap. Except if you want to listen to music on your mobile devices of course.
I wonder if Michael has ever tried any other flagship digital audio players for example the Cayin N8 or the Lotoo Paw Gold Touch?
The Cayin N8 has vacuum tubes in it.
I own a very good DAC/SACD player with no tubes in it.
@@AnalogPlanet I commented that because you mentioned that you use an Astell and Kern player.
I hate the fact that so much modern vinyl comes from a digital file when the original recording was analog
And worse. I've seen video of the master 1 inch stereo analogue tapes in the pressing plant converted to 96khz before cutting the laquer. How dumb and what missed opportunities
I'm not surprised that the group Mike Fremer invited over to his house experienced the LP on his turntable as sounding substantially better than a top-of-the-line digital setup- but I'd bet that none of them ended up buying a turntable and going at least somewhat analog afterwards (Though I hope I'm wrong about that)!
Sadly, people don't seem to value great sound much nowadays, which is sad, because it's like great smell, great taste, great sight, and great sensations- it's really visceral and pleasurable (one of life's great pleasures IMO) if you open yourself up to it (or simply notice it from the start).
Speaking of Berliner Philharmoniker, wasn’t it a joy no longer to have to listen to bass-shy recordings from our previous conductor king that sounded so honky and shrill?
What's distortion though?
An empty concert hall has a dB around 35. All live performances have distortion.
Focusing on distortion to explain why some methods of recording or playback are better than others sounds like a red herring.
It looks like the transfer switch installed in Mr. Frehmers house was wired with aluminum wire. I am aware that most electrical distribution is done with aluminum conductors however, in this case I wonder if this has been part of his problem?
In my experience most digital downloads from the major labels are lacking compared to a good digitized vinyl playback. I’d be happier if the labels offered downloads of digitized vinyl. Also the resolution matters with digitized vinyl, 192KHz is noticeably better than 96Khz if the playback gear is of sufficient quality.
When you write that, what you're actually asking for is a well mastered copy of the music. A lot of pop music is horribly produced, with masses of compression used. Ideally we'd a flat transfer without that compression. Why settle for a Vinyl rip that is compressed?
@@MaterLacrymarum The dynamic range of vinyl is less compressed than the digital downloads due to the physical limitations of cutting the grooves on the vinyl. But it’s more than just compression there’s actual sonic information that’s lacking from the digital downloads in many instances.
@@TorToroPorco Indeed - however the fact remains, Vinyl has less dynamic range than a digital recording is able to do. Further, don't compare apples and oranges. Commercially released chart hits, put up on streaming and downloads, are not targeting audiophiles, or even play back on hi-fi systems. From an audiophile perspective, they've been ruined by poor mastering (compressed). I agree. But they're the worst the format has to offer. All Vinyl, ad far as I know, uses RIAA equalization and Curve, for example. You can certainly find instances where compression on digital recordings is over-used. I'll give you an example right here - Alice Cooper's new CD is DR5!!! But I avoid such things - forewarned is forearmed. Compression of this sort is far less of a problem with Jazz and Classical.
Thank you I always knew Vinyl was better
Michael admitted that all playback methods introduce "distortion." So it's simply that he prefers the "vinyl" distortion. Plus the fact that "Mastering" (first or subsequent re-mastering) always changes the sound.
Dear Mr. Fremer.
And Reel to Reel sounds better than vinyl, right.
2 Brilliant Hi Fi gurus, most enjoyable vid
All I know is the human hearing range is not liniar so the lower end is less sensitive to us. We naturally emphasise this part to give it warmth that's why we naturally find records nicer.Digital removes unwanted noises but also the subtle nieuances of the recording
dolby noise reduction removes good music.
classic on vinyl is the biggest no go EVER
our brain is wired for survival to be able to detect real. Real is always distorted by everything else. clean up a track for accuracy and you remove a bit of real. plus, we all experience real a little differently. I really enjoyed this, thank you.
Funny seeing that PS Audio pre-amplifier. My first ‘audiophile’ pre-amplifier was a PS Audio ‘The Source’. I sold it in 1996 to a young VP of Banco Popular in Quito, Ecuador. The sound was so impressive, he just had to have it after listening to it along with the rest of my sound system. BTW, at that time, I thought PS audio meant Power Supply Audio, because the power supply was a separate little unit with an external transformer. Good memories...
I met you back in the 70’s when you were on WBCN ! I have your comedy LP also. Great videos also!
He makes a good argument for vinyl. The only advantage of digital is low noise and it’s immunity to most outside influences( pops and clicks, rumble, tape hiss.). I can tell you that lossless digital is way better than mp3 crap they give us. Why Amazon and iTunes can’t give us lossless or dsd formats is a crime.
Right he is. Just recently i built an amplifier designed by Nelson Pass, where you can tinker with the distortion profile. For me the right amount of 2nd order distortion sounds so much better - it´s just insane. It is measurable and very clearly heard. Just try it for yourself - you won´t regret it.
He did mention the dCS Scarlatti DAC briefly but, before that, I wondered if it was a fair contest as I got the impression - rightly or wrongly - that he was happy to spend an arm and a leg on a turntable, arm and cartridge and perhaps rather less on a really good digital playback system.
Great info. Made me laugh and learn. Fellow old farts. Shockingly right about the power thing. Not sure why the xfer switch caused the signal injection (crosstalk?) but I run full wave inverters here due to utility brownouts. Too many refrigerators, printers, even a stove, failed due to switching power supply transient amplification issues.
Back in the day they added distortion (scratches, clicks, buzz, etc.) to make things sound more real or less artificial. Radio stations did it all the time as did DJs.
Quality of vinyl record is very dependent from numerous things: turntable, with all it's mechanics, stylus, tonearm, from actual cleaning of record and stylus, storage, phono pre amp. I don't think there is any other format - nor physical nor digital, which needs so much to elavate actual quality.
Well said. For vinyl to sound better, and I have no reason to doubt those that have that experience, what it takes to make a vinyl rig sing is a costly and huge production number.
U need to play vinyl to find out for urself , it’s not that complicated it’s not rocket science. Just don’t play them on crosley turntable.
Miles Showell is indeed super nice. He took the time to give some very helpful answers to questions I had.
Ned Ryerson?
Needle nose Ned?! Bing!
Am I right, or am I right...
One of the best listenings to Lou Rawls's Tobacco Road I ever experiences was when I was 18 (in year 1980) during a girl firends birhtday party - her mother had put the original record on the turntable of a B&O system - I was flashed right away and got addicted to Lou Rawls since then.
Nevertheless, I never took the effort of stepping up to true vinyl - my turntable is in its original shipping box in the basement together with about 100 records.
Instead, I am streaming (pls forgive me for my favor of convenience).
Despite an old and quite cheap USB DAC for my PC I use a tube amp and a nice fully analog studio device to add some kind of analog distortion, the SPL Qure. To be honest, I am quite happy with this setup, knowing well that there are far better systems out there.
Here's the problem I have with vinyl compared to digital formats today. I would have to spend considerably more money on a turntable, tone arm, cartridge and phono preamp than I have invested in my streaming setup to get better sound. The other thing is the convenience of streaming music and being able to sit down and listen for hours without getting up to flip the record over or to change records. I have a turntable and some albums that I occasionally listen to, but they don't sound better to me than streaming. So unless money is no object, I will stick with a high quality streaming service and the associated equipment to listen to music that way. I'm sure that half million dollar turntable sounds fantastic! But who has that kind of money? Not many people have 5, 10, or 15 thousand to spend on a turntable setup either. I do get it though. I grew up listening to vinyl as a young man back in the 80's. However, as digital formats have evolved and improved over the years, vinyl just seems antiquated to me.
All the things you mention are (kind of) part of the fun, and interface with Vinyl. Good news is ANY format of good music is good music. Some of it advances to exceptional music, and once you hear that it is like an Addiction to get more hits.
@@richardshippful Yes I definitely get the fun of playing records. Back in the late 70s and early 80s I only bought vinyl. I also had a tape deck to record my albums for playing in the car. The engagement of playing and recording records was fun. But now I prefer the convenience of streaming music and not having to fiddle with all the extra stuff. I have a setup that sounds way better than my turntable without spending thousands of dollars on a turntable setup. That's my point to this. If you have the money to invest in a multi thousand dollar turntable system, then go for it, if that makes you happy.
I'm 60, next week, and I bought my first stereo at 15 and I agree with you. I left vinyl behind in the 80s and rarely go back. When I do I'm underwhelmed.@@neilfisher7999
I admire your honesty recognizing that you're a cheapskate who doesn't care about their music
@@richardshippful I grew up in the 70's. Playing a record was never about the "fun" of putting the thing on the turntable, the experience if you will, it was about playing the music, a means to an end. Today people talk about the "fun" of playing records seemingly ignoring what some of us hated about it but tolerated because other than reel to reel (expensive), 8 track (limited ability to play the tracks you wanted) or cassette, there wasn't any alternatives. CD was a godsend for people like me and I have never looked back. I buy CD or SACD if that's available, nothing could persuade me to go back to Vinyl.
Micheal is fantastic. They seem to have quality, authentic characters down at Stereophile
The words “a lot” was digitized in this clip. It came out as one word “alot”. 😅
Second time around is the charm! Paul McGowan vs Michael Fremer ---- Who's going to win? DSD or ANALOG? Are they both right? or simply enjoy the music! Both guys have super wonderful systems. Michael's LP turntable system costs as much as his house. Advantage ANALOG.
Michael Fremer tells it as it is about. Yes, for the most part I agree with Mr. Fremer; but to me it is more like an analogue playback, such as from vinyl record, or cassette tape, as a difference of dusk to dawn. It's not a comparison to a difference of night, and day! I have up to 4 different CD Players from at least three eras - 1989, 1998, and 2003 - connected to my Receiver, and one turntable; one is a SACD/DVD Player connected with Coax RCA Cable.
Maybe as I grew up with listening to 33.33, and 45RPM discs it is what I prefer; especially decent recordings on vinyl. I prefer music from the nineteen sixties, too, However, I enjoy, and listen to mostly the 1970s, and 1980s. Recordings in the nineteen seventies, and early eighties have a more fluid, smoother sound to the music. From what I noticed, but it also could be my preference of that musical time.
Furthermore, I'm not in agreement with having an insanely expensive, or even a very expensive turntable. And that belief has also to do with a very expensive turntable, and tonearm with an low profile inexpensive MM cartridge with a conical stylus that I noticed on the Internet. I am not saying going the other way with a very inexpensive turntable whereby a high performing expensive cartridge, or MC is mounted, but it falls in the middle range in my experience, and right opinion.🔉🎵🎶
Did the sound change,,,,?,, its hurt my ears now,,😲
Yep Paul adding distortion for the fun of it it's good he's not a mastering engineer
@13:24 - Upon watching this section, I took out these same 2 records shown here: an original UK pressing and the half-speed, played the same track "That Would Be Something" (side 1 Track 2) and, indeed, Michael Fremer is right. The analog UK pressing has the guitars sounding warm, crisp and real, the cymbals and drums clean and present, while the half speed is basically clinically cold. The music is there, but it's flat and lifeless. I played it on an Ortofon 2M Blue, through a Cambridge Audio pre-amp and receiver, on a Fluance R-85 turntable and Polk Rti12 speakers. You would get the same results even if you played them on a Crossley suitcase record player. I will say that I am a bit disappointed with the half speed and wondering if the same applies to the rest of the McCartney and Rolling Stones half speed albums that have already been released? The 1980 Rolling Stones Records US pressing of "Emotional Rescue" always sounded muffled and lame.
Great to listen to Michael, always a source of great knowledge, sadly I do not have several houses to spend
on a turntable (hoping my existing machine of many years keeps going!!). Should one infer from Michael's
talk that perhaps all the "Modern" Re-Mastered Albums have at some part of the process been through a
Digital process ??
Yes, probably. Any LP or remastered LP since about 1979-1980 is likely to be digital. As I recall, the first digital LP released in the U.S. was Ry Cooder's Bop til you Drop in 1978.
Awesome gentleman 😎👍
If this is true at all the difference is minimal and look at all the space in his room for his collection it’s ridiculous so for the difference in sound quality I don’t care ,I’ll take digital playback any day,and I listen to modern music recording’s not dinosaur recordings which make all the difference,I have a turntable but I hardly ever use it,and digital playback has not been around as long as vinyl and it’s getting better and better
The antidote about the listening party..the first time someone really hears Good imaging no matter the medium they call feel its the greatest they have ever heard..... I do love a good record and in love a good digital hell idgaf I just love good sounding music. Especially with tons of layers. ..... Have a good one guys
Reupload with noise reduction? I find it interesting that Mikey sounds substantially different now.
1 Michael Fremer video = 5 Ask Paul videos!
I love that deck Michael has in the video, it probably cost more than my house. But, I bet it sounds pretty, pretty, pretty nice!
What is it?
I think it’s the TechDAS Air Force Zero, possibly the most expensive turntable on the market, at around 500.000$
all recording is an estimation of the original. digital is an estimation of aestimation. it has been said, every time you process a signal, one changes it. often degrades it.
chopping it up by 16 bit sampling, then flickering a 44.100 times/second)CD (Redbook standard); is a radical process.
to really kybosh the sound, use MP3 streaming - a lossy, detail discarding(forever) algorythm codec.
rven taping a vinyl lp to the humble compact casette optimally, ispreferable to many, than CD-R.DVD-R(pcm /dolby digital), DVD-Audio,BLU-RAY-Audio,DCC. DAT, MD, SSD,cCloud storage.
some current studios are inserting an analog R2R magnetic tape stage, to preserve warmth of analog master(if deterioration/damage neds correcting), or improve overall quality-sound balance of a digital master - not acheivable from tape emulation software(digital).
my 2 cents, have a nice day. lets pressure those who own/hold analog masters, to continue to have archive back-ups in high quality analog formats, not just digital, so that new future lp releases can be all-analog = digital artifact -free.
digital I find just ok for casual, background kistening, but does not scale-up well on critical listening - what we are about.
Michael, a petition on your A-P aite would be an effective way to assist in this, imo. xou obviously care deeply about your lp collection….lets all think about future generations, too. you are an industry figure(no one is perfect :),and a gent, who could make this happen, imo.CAFOPAM,(CampaignForPreservationof Analog Masters.
is the Library of Congress still archiving to 2-track 7.5ips R2R tape?(re an old Stereophile article of yours).
Bingo! I've still got that McCartney album from when it came out in the UK. However, I don't have the hifi to match, or the ancillary devices and listening room either. (Exit stage left to buy lottery ticket.)
whats up with that reverb/echo in his room, never heard anything like that.
Did anyone count the number of flies Fremer killed by clapping his hands?
Look at all those records!!! I know this is only a small part of his collection.
there Cologuard samples
Deja Vu, Dear Paul.
Ya i use power conditioning and a very noticeable improvement u need emi rfi filtering with low impedance