Oh, I say unto that the Lord Jesus has died for your sins and risen again from the grave, to be on the right hand of God. If only you will confess your wrongs, the Lord God Almighty will forgive all your sins and give you new life.
This actually makes a lot of sense…. Now I’m curious but what if a tarnished makes its way to another world? 🌎 Would they still resurrect if they died?
i thought the tarnished didn't die because marika sent them out to do war and used the rune of death to make them come back again and again. In a sense she sent them on a holy war and made them unkillable
@reddfranzen9072 everyone else except them was immortal. The fact that the Erdtree extended grace to them was how they gained the same immortality as everyone else.
@@SkySovereignn Most of games have no valid reason for respawning Because this needs extra creativity and more complex worldbuilding, which most of modern companies are incapable of
Thinking about it, I believe a few NPCs mention how Tarnished now often can't see Grace, so we might've been among the last Tarnished being rolled out.
@@cooki3th1ef I don’t think the death blight “corrupted” his grace, since Rogier says he lost sight of grace as we meet with him at Stormveil Castle. Therefore, there was no grace to be corrupted, aside from the blight straight up killing him and he became a spirit, a champion of Fia. (I don’t know if those champions are actually of Godwyn’s ranks, being “those who live in death”)
@@NemesisUmbral it's implied rogier actually is one of those who live in death. I mean he lost grace, got deathblighted and somehow got away with thorns on his legs. That's very odd and would explain why he wants to find more about them. Fia's champion are just people that hugged her no matter if you died or not.
"No clear successor came out of the Shattering" Morgott, who not only tried to keep the demigods united but also denounced his accursed blood, rallied the forces of Leyndell against the other demigods and *won* and has been ruling over the Golden City and protected the erdtree for gods know how many years: "Am I a joke to you?"
Yes you are funni horn man. In all seriousness, Morgott survived, he didn't win, winning meant having at least 2 demigod souls so he could qualify as elden lord and he didn't manage to kill any of his siblings so.
@@agentc7020 he won the defense of Leyndell during the war of the shattering is what I meant. He didn't win the title of Elden Lord, but he managed to hold his siblings off and keep the city relatively safe.
He doesen't really make sense tho.. he prevents killed beings to go back to the ErdTree, thus making the Greater Will weaker.. unless it was the plan for the tree to be burned more easily
Ranni was pretty stupid, if she would've let Godwyn live she would've never had to be a God because Godwyn would've done it. Instead, she killed him so she never had to be in a position she was never going to be in anyways.
@portofthoughts4477 Ranni's goals struck me as more egocentric than self-destructive. She wanted to be independent completely of the Greater Will, and was willing to do whatever it took to gain that independence. Avoiding godhood was just part of the goal. Severing her connection completely was the endgame.
@karakdalik6263 The greater will only required the repair of the Elden Ring no? Even as the player tarnished, we aren't given grace to become the new diety, but Elden Lord. When none of the demi gods arrose from the shattering, the greater will offered grace to the tarnished to become Elden Lord and restore order, not to supercede Marika.
That does always leave the question why we're still immortal even when faced with Destined Death as well as just about anything after the Rune of Death is unbound by the tarnished. The simple answer would be that its for gameplay reasons, but I do wonder if I'm missing something here.
I mean, unsealing Destined Death is a requirement for every ending right? I haven't done FF yet but I assume so. The Greater Will doesn't want you to die, especially after you release death. Once you defeat Malekith you've basically proven yourself as THE candidate for the next Elden Lord. Your final obstacle before entering the Erdtree is Godfrey, who is only there to once again stand before the Elden Ring, himself having been resurrected by Grace, which makes sense. He's really the only other Tarnished truly worthy of claiming the title. If not even Godfrey could stand in your way, who really could of the non-God characters? Fixed Godwyn to Godfrey because I'm tired.
I'd say it's for gameplay reasons. Godfrey is shown having the guidance of grace and he doesn't resurrect. With Destined Death released, Grace no longer has the power to bring people back to life. The reason we still come back is simply that having your save file deleted upon death is way too punishing.
I noticed how the unalloyed golden needle that you can use in Placidusax's arena doesn't remove your grace. This might further imply that the Greater Will isn't an outer god like we already expected
Are people considering the Greater Will an outer god? Always thought of outer gods as a god that doesn't have the Lands Between as its home turf, hence the term outer as opposed to the Greater Will being the god of this land.
@@Ydigisek Well that's what people said when the game first came out, the Greater Will at first glance does have a similar nature to outer gods so people just assumed that's what they were called. It's only recently that people noticed that it doesn't really make sense.
The greater will has some power over gold, so the neddle being made of that material may allow the greater will to overpower the other gods, so it still doesn't have to be different in nature from the pther gods
@Corfean The gold thing isn't literal. The Greater Will doesn't have the power to literally control gold. That's just the color its power manifests as.
@@Ydigisek yes, the common theory early one was the the erdtree was parasitic in nature and taking over the great tree. But we had learned now that the great tree was burned, the turn it into the crucible and one of the branches of the crucible eventually became the Erdtree. We used to give people blessings and stuff is now is dying.
This is why all the npcs can die when you can't, they all go off about how they can't see the guidance of grace anymore, while you still can. Maybe it's not so much that we're not allowed to die, but we're the only tarnished who's not lost faith in their mission, kind of like going hollow in dark souls.
yes! When you completed the game you can "die" as in stop playing and, on the other hand, you "die" when you decide not to play anymore before completing it. There are and there will be players who try to complete the game, they are the ones blessed by grace - the will to play the game. It's all really clever. Grace is an actual game mechanic that lets you travel and regain hp/fp and when you dont play you literally cant see it anymore because the game is closed.
@@CJ-wh7ikI always loved the connection between going hollow and leaf life in Dark Souls but I never eealized Elden Ring had this too with people losing sight of grace!
Considering Elden Ring takes place in the LANDS BETWEEN, to me I interpret it as all these different characters reside in the worlds and lands of other FromSoft games such as Demon/DarkSouls/Sekiro (Yuras armor literally describes the world of Sekiro where he turns into the Demon and turns to bloodshed. As well as Vyke is literally the soldier from Dark Souls, the DragonArmor lady aswell etc.) Basically Marika sent the Tarnished out to live a full life and when they die… “what was once taken, shall be returned” and they were given back their Grace to use the knowledge they’ve gained in their life from other games/Worlds/Lands to bring about change to the land that has been suffering due to Deaths removal and Marikas changed mind on Eternal Life (Since her first born Godwyn was now eternally suffering… unable to reincarnate and unable to die…She realized The Gloam Eyed Queens way of Death may have been a better possibility and then continues to SHATTER the Elden Ring giving way to possible change)✨🧐
They are similar but Miyazaki already debunk this theory by saying that all of fromsoftware game doesn't share the same universe and have no connection to each others
For me it's pretty horrifying. Greater will allowed Tarnished to be banished beyond the fog to fight battles to death and then ressurrects them after that suffering to die endlessly by enemies that far outmatch them in power (Demigods). Only to be outcasted again whenever they become useless. Many of them are indoctrinated and/or just feel the need to go to erdtree like moths into the light, which i assume is due to greater will's influence on them. Essentialy Tarnished are slaves and tools to the greater will, sentenced to suffer many lifetimes until they outlive their usefulness. After all gold only serves well those who have power and doesn't accept any impurity.
@@alfalldoot6715 that's because they don't have grace anymore. I think it's because they either lost faith and motivation to become Elden Lord or because they became obstacle for the player, who is the number one candidate for throne.
Little wonder that Ranni went to such lengths to sever herself from the influence of the Greater Will, given it had no problem screwing over Godfrey and the other Tarnished after all they'd done, banishing them, then bringing them back and forbidding them to die until they'd solved a problem they couldn't have possibly had a hand in creating. I'd shank a demigod or two if I was in that situation.
This has been my biggest question that I felt nobody was asking. Though I used to think that grace wasn't necessarily tied to the Greater Will or the Erdtree since we still revive after the tree burns down, and we still have it even when we're doing stuff the Greater Will probably wouldn't like, like getting the Flame of Frenzy. I guess the reason we still have grace even when we're clearly working against the Greater Will is that it's just that desperate for a successor and we seem to be the only possible candidate so it'll hold out hope that we could change our mind at the last second because either way the world is lost to them. When the Two fingers at the Roundtable "go silent" and we're told it could take millenia for an answer that's the Greater Will basically giving up on The Lands Between and going "don't bother us with this anymore unless you have an Elden Lord."
The greater will and golden order are two separate things. The greater will doesn’t care what form it’s worship takes, be it the new golden order or an age of those who live in death. It protected the golden order in the past because it’s continued existence was the best way to get worship, but now that Marika went against it they don’t care who takes control as long as the one in control serves them
I like to think the 2 fingers refers to 2 on the mouse pad buttons and back in the day you would have 1 finger each on w a and d on the keyboard. Hence the 2 fingers and 3 fingers who are outer gods who influence the tarnished (we use our hands to control the player tarnished). I always thought it was a sly joke by the dev team 😂
Makes even more sense why I chose the Chaos ending and burned the Erdtree. My mouse has extra buttons for the thumb, so I'm really playing with 3 fingers...
This explains why Godfrey was banished from the lands between. When all enemy's was slain his eyes grew dim as Merika robbed him of his grace. He was cast out to wage war in a land far away until we were called back.
Well I half agree: Grace grants life to those who are dead, however it’s Ranni’s tampering with the rune of destined death and possibly Godwyn’s decaying effect on the lands between & erd tree that have thrown the balanced cycle of life, death, & rebirth into a frenzy. Preventing others from dying. Grace is directly linked to the greater will-an outer god-and Shabriri is brought back to life by the frenzied flame-linked to another outer god-so it’s fairly apparent those who are brought back are chosen by an outer god. Also worth noting the tarnished don’t come back to life after death in the lore (hence the deaths of tarnished slain and the sin of slaying them). The player character is the only one to exhibit this undying ability and that’s simply for the sake of gameplay mechanics bc it would be exponentially more difficult if death meant you had to restart or the opposite if you were truly undying; in reality the player character technically doesn’t die throughout their journey/quest to become elden lord.
"Oh no, I have been stabbed in multiple places by those wierd menorah lookin' things the Albinaurics wield! I am slain!" Greater Will: CLEAR! *Grace defib*
Gets my body absolutely slammed, all bones shattered by Horah Loux The Greater Will: I Got u Fam. The Greater Will is the goat bro. Im happily married to Ranni
@@prestongiles9917 I have like 5 different characters with different builds. They each will experience a different ending lol. I have one with just incantations and omfg I suck ass lol
However something I don’t get is that there’s a bunch stuff in the lore that should be able to kill our Tarnished like Destined Death or the Black Flame, which we get blasted with a lot, and we still get back up.
You do die. We die. We don't stay dead. It's not that we are immune it's that we resurrect. They just kill end, we are reborn. Are body turned to nothing and are existence wiped only to return hours to days later. Some tarnish die permanently but it's usually the player involved. And we see resurrection takes time. It could just be they haven't resurrected yet. Or because they can no longer see the guidance of grace that they lose their retroactive immortality.
I used to imagine that when I finally beat a boss it was like my characters first attempt but I love imagining these bosses being confused because this same guy keeps coming to fight him over and over😂😂
Great, but bear in mind, it's not the Greater Will that grants Grace to the Tarnished. Matter of fact, the Greater Will directly opposes the Tarnished from becoming Elden Lord. By preventing the Two Fingers from giving wisdom after Morgotts defeat (who loved Erdtree), locking the Erdtree, to then fighting us via possessed Radagon and Elden Beast. It's also directly stated that the Greater Will abandons not just the Demi-Gods, but the entire land. My theory is that grace given to the Tarnished is Marika/Radagon's last attempt to overthrow the Greater Will.
I love how from soft takes technicalities or capabilities of gaming and turns them into plot points. It's genuinely so fun. Every single thing u have is somehow connected to the essential story of the game on some Kevin bacon shit
Sadly you are still a pawn of the greater will, as the frenzied flame is still one of them. No matter what Tarnished are destined to serve in the end, for if they were not they would not have been granted grace
I think marika offered this before she was imprisoned. It's the clear the greater will doesn't want you to take the throne and I'm guessing it wants everyone to suffer forever as punishment for Rannis (and I think Marikas) rebellion.
“Seams to stem” adds an unsure air in Myazaki’s statement. The screen shows the quote with the “seams to” and just says “stems from” adding finality and no wiggle room.
That makes me think more about when characters ask if you can still see the guidance of grace, or how it might feel to be a Tarnished who once saw the guidance of grace and subsequently lost it. The way it's talked about suggest an overall awareness of the divine selection and immortality of some above others.
Black guard lost his guidance of grace after he claimed he didn't want to be elden lord or lost his confidence since in his dying words he wanted to be elden lord but didn't believe in himself. Perhaps guidance of grace only chooses those who are, well... "Emboldened by the flames of Ambition" Since black guard doesn't feel Ambitious to become elden lord or to become something more he lost the guidance of grace, he did call it bollocks after all.
my head cannon is that the tarnished we play as is a bunch of different corpse ashes eventually brought together by the greater will as an amnesiac newborn tarnished who is being controlled to eventually create an order. This explains the character creator, classes, and the fact that we have infinite respawns
Ohhh that little detail about the grace appearing next to each of the major characters in the intro was neat. I thought my opinion of the erdtree couldn't get any lower.
The fact that the dung eater was graced with life too makes it very interesting. The greater will would rather have a whole world of cursed ones than what it currently is then
I'm pretty sure Marika is the one that brought the Tarnished back, at least from what Melina says pretty much all but states it. She sent Godfrey and his warriors away to grow stronger and eventually die. Then they would be brought back to life so that one of them would become Elden Lord.
@Al Fall Doot Melina states that Marika is the one who gave Grace back. "In Marika's own words. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey"
@@MetalCaffeine56 But Marika is still pretty clearly out of commision in the erdtree. She knew that the tarnished would come back eventually, so that's why she said that. Plus, Enia's dialogue says that the Fingers extended the grace.
@Al Fall Doot But it's implied that a lot of what the Two Fingers say is very biased in favor of the Greater Will. And from what other characters like Gideon say, they've been pretty useless for a long time.
@Metal Caffeine Well, I don't know why the Two Fingers being biased for the GW has to do with anything. Gideon doesn't say they're useless, just that they've lost their purpose, which could mean anything. Plus, like I said before, Marika is seemingly comatose in the erdtree, so how would she know that all the demigods are out of commison and then give grace back.
THANK YOU this is a heavily underdiscussed topic in Elden Ring! How is it explained that we revive at a site of grace when dead? Why is it that the Tarnished and many enemy types turn to ash as they die, while others remain as corpses in the world? What decides how one dies?
I remain skeptical that the Greater Will is singularly in control (if at all) of the Guiding Grace, would love to see them expand a bit more on its nature and function but I suspect it will remain a mystery
It's implied from Melina that Marika is the one in control of grace and gave it back to the Tarnished after they died so that one of them would become Elden Lord.
@@MetalCaffeine56 Considering we can respawn at Stakes of Marika, I'd say it's a fair guess. Could explain why no matter what, we get to keep our Grace.
Tarnished are shown dead on the intro, but after that if I am not mistaken once you kill them they are dead for good. They don't show again; however, in the first moments, when Melina "rescues" you after the fight with grafted scyon, I think you do revive on your own, maybe that's why you are chosen by her, cause the grace seems to revive you more than once; or maybe is the other way around. She is the one that choses you and makes you able to revive.
I wanna know why we don't lose our grace when we go for certain endings. Ranni and the frenzied flame particularly, ranni would see that the greater wills influence would be up ended in the lands between and the flame of frenzy would burn down everything it built
Just to let you know there is a difference between Grace and the Guidance of Grace. No tarnished has Grace hence the name “tarnished” referring to Godfrey’s armies eye’s tarnishing when they were sent out of The Lands Between. Guidance of Grace however, is what resurrects the tarnished and most tarnished NPCs we meet say they once saw the guidance of grace but have lost it and that we are special for seeing guidance. Just wanted to clarify, if you have any other questions I’d be happy to answer.
My headcanon is that Grace only goes to the tarnished it thinks/sees in the future are most likely to succeed. So when a new tarnished comes along (the player) most other tarnished lose the guidance of grace because the grace sees that the player is going to become the Elden lord. This could be way off the mark since I’m around 35 hours into the game though lol
The topic of the main character’s immortality is always interesting to discuss. My theory is that, while the Guidance of Grace did resurrect us two times (one time in the opening cutscene and the other after we are defeated by the grafted scion), every death that happens later is not canon. After all, in every video game there always are some events that happen but are reversed, Godfrey killing Serosh and claiming the name Hoarah Loux being a great example. Also, the fact that the Greater Will is helping us achieve lordship may explain why we can defeat every demigod and more without dying, which is probably seem as insanely lucky for other characters that witness our journey as a one single try (the Force from the Star Wars universe might be a good comparison).
I like how in Dark Souls immortality is always a curse or an affliction, but in Elden Ring they change it and instead reframe it as a great blessing. I wonder what the distinction is there, or if they're simply looking at it in a different light in this game.
I love the idea we’re a Marika bastard waking up in a mausoleum. Our power is we don’t quit. Like a dark fantasy terminator. We wipe out the old & may chaos take the world!!!
Unless im missing context the very concept of death was taken from the Elden Ring, an object that governs the laws of reality and given to Maliketh to keep it safe this is why we have to kill him so we can introduce death back to the world... This shard of the Elden Ring is so powerful even just having fragments of it makes you terrifying to fight just look at the Black Knife Assassin group who stole parts of the Death Fragment and in lore are stated to be one of the few ways people can truely die.
When the Grace of Hope entered the Palm of the Dead hand at the beginning of this video, it should have zoomed in super close to show an epic large landscape, which being a close up of the palm of his hand, and show the Bright Yellow Grace of Hope transform into some kind of strange alien looking, organic drill. But a very wide drill, like the Fire Nation Drill that slowly bore through the humengous walls of Ba Sing Se. And make it like a very prolonged drill sequence, like from the perspective of an insect, a giganetic world that to them is massive but to us living creatures who arent bacteria or atomic sized, its just a instantaneous seconed. Like Magic School Bus type of scenes, how all Biology actually has a mechanism. It would be very loud and scary to see such a huge drill digging into the landscape world, the palm of the hand from up close, like shaky cam etc, as if an atomic sized human was looking at this drill the size of a Skyscrapers coming down from the Sky. As if it Emerges from a Magical Ball of Light! I would love to see that! And maybe once it gets inside the scene can transform to Yellow Spiritual Essence travelling up the blood stream in like Shiny wispy Golden Magical Chariots with see thru transparent Gold Horses and yellow glamour etc pulling it up to the heart of the Cadaver.
I believe our tarnished doesn't die multiple times lorewise. Unlike dark souls or sekiro, no character acknowledges the fact that you are coming back to life (or rewinding time), so i think cannon revival only happens once in the prologue.
I CALL FOR THE TARNISHED TO UNITE UNDER THE MIGHTY OMEN KING!!! WE SHALL MAKE HIM ELDEN LORD AND BE HIS NEW NIGHT'S CAVALRY!!! WE SHALL SERVE HIM FOR THE REST OF OUR DAYS UNTIL OUR BLADES ARE WORTH NO MORE!!! EVEN IF WE HAVE TO PRY OFF MALENIA'S PROSTHETIC ARM!!!
Also in one of the churches marika mentions that the duty of the tarnished is to die in a foreign land in battle, implying she has a saying into this whole matter.
Getting flashbacks from Hyperion in the Borderlands series. Literally just a corporation that keeps reviving the player until they've outlived their profitability.
Thanks for watching guys, remember to let me know your thoughts below!
bro said “Greater Well” instead of “Greater WILL.”
Oh, I say unto that the Lord Jesus has died for your sins and risen again from the grave, to be on the right hand of God. If only you will confess your wrongs, the Lord God Almighty will forgive all your sins and give you new life.
This actually makes a lot of sense….
Now I’m curious but what if a tarnished makes its way to another world? 🌎 Would they still resurrect if they died?
i thought the tarnished didn't die because marika sent them out to do war and used the rune of death to make them come back again and again. In a sense she sent them on a holy war and made them unkillable
@reddfranzen9072 everyone else except them was immortal. The fact that the Erdtree extended grace to them was how they gained the same immortality as everyone else.
Tarnished: **dies**
Greater Will: "Wake the fuck up, Tarnished. We've got an Erdtree to burn!"
This actually got me laughing. My humor is broken.
This is humans on earth but we just don’t remember 😭
basically every time a player respawns in the game 😂
@@nerothoth5339 Jaja, gnostic refference
@@SkySovereignn Most of games have no valid reason for respawning
Because this needs extra creativity and more complex worldbuilding, which most of modern companies are incapable of
Also explains why some Tarnished die permanently: they are abandoned by grace
didnt Rogier die because he didnt see grace anymore and shortly after he died
Thinking about it, I believe a few NPCs mention how Tarnished now often can't see Grace, so we might've been among the last Tarnished being rolled out.
@@TheDrnknmnkyyeah, he’s inflicted with death blight that corrupts his grace and kills him permanently
the player character is fine probs for gameplay
@@cooki3th1ef I don’t think the death blight “corrupted” his grace, since Rogier says he lost sight of grace as we meet with him at Stormveil Castle. Therefore, there was no grace to be corrupted, aside from the blight straight up killing him and he became a spirit, a champion of Fia. (I don’t know if those champions are actually of Godwyn’s ranks, being “those who live in death”)
@@NemesisUmbral it's implied rogier actually is one of those who live in death. I mean he lost grace, got deathblighted and somehow got away with thorns on his legs. That's very odd and would explain why he wants to find more about them. Fia's champion are just people that hugged her no matter if you died or not.
"No clear successor came out of the Shattering"
Morgott, who not only tried to keep the demigods united but also denounced his accursed blood, rallied the forces of Leyndell against the other demigods and *won* and has been ruling over the Golden City and protected the erdtree for gods know how many years:
"Am I a joke to you?"
Yes you are funni horn man.
In all seriousness, Morgott survived, he didn't win, winning meant having at least 2 demigod souls so he could qualify as elden lord and he didn't manage to kill any of his siblings so.
Poor morgott really wanted to do everything right but unfortunately the greater will is racist towards omens
@@agentc7020 he won the defense of Leyndell during the war of the shattering is what I meant. He didn't win the title of Elden Lord, but he managed to hold his siblings off and keep the city relatively safe.
Yes
One small problem, Greater Will is racist
They really saw the Dung Eater and said "yeah, hes the one. Give'em grace he'll be perfect!"
Hey, Order of Turbocurse is an Order...
@@saeyabor The lumbago is the downside
He doesen't really make sense tho.. he prevents killed beings to go back to the ErdTree, thus making the Greater Will weaker.. unless it was the plan for the tree to be burned more easily
The walking std might make an army
What did he do?
I half expected the SmoughTown short to be 20 minutes long
I'm petitioning TH-cam
Godwyn was probably the greater will's greatest hope of a successor. Ranni certainly torpedoed that boat.
Ranni was pretty stupid, if she would've let Godwyn live she would've never had to be a God because Godwyn would've done it. Instead, she killed him so she never had to be in a position she was never going to be in anyways.
@portofthoughts4477
Ranni's goals struck me as more egocentric than self-destructive. She wanted to be independent completely of the Greater Will, and was willing to do whatever it took to gain that independence. Avoiding godhood was just part of the goal. Severing her connection completely was the endgame.
I don't remember Godwyn being an Empirean, which seems as a prerequisite to become Marika's sucessor or god in general.
@karakdalik6263 The greater will only required the repair of the Elden Ring no? Even as the player tarnished, we aren't given grace to become the new diety, but Elden Lord. When none of the demi gods arrose from the shattering, the greater will offered grace to the tarnished to become Elden Lord and restore order, not to supercede Marika.
@@dazza1156 I thought you were talking about Godwyn being sucessor to Marika, who started to question Greater Will.
“Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity.”
Honestly he had an interesting interpretation, especially if she wanted godfey to be elden lord again, he'd actually be right
"brave tarnished.. you still have a quest to fulfill, until then you cannot die."
"PLEASE I am so TIRED of doing this RERUNS. THIS IS MY 17th RUN IN BECOMING A LORD"
That does always leave the question why we're still immortal even when faced with Destined Death as well as just about anything after the Rune of Death is unbound by the tarnished.
The simple answer would be that its for gameplay reasons, but I do wonder if I'm missing something here.
defo its very esoteric and almost meta; you are the one 'chosen' by grace and so we wont let you die (no matter what)
Maybe because we are rebirthed through the Erd tree ?
I mean, unsealing Destined Death is a requirement for every ending right? I haven't done FF yet but I assume so. The Greater Will doesn't want you to die, especially after you release death. Once you defeat Malekith you've basically proven yourself as THE candidate for the next Elden Lord. Your final obstacle before entering the Erdtree is Godfrey, who is only there to once again stand before the Elden Ring, himself having been resurrected by Grace, which makes sense. He's really the only other Tarnished truly worthy of claiming the title. If not even Godfrey could stand in your way, who really could of the non-God characters?
Fixed Godwyn to Godfrey because I'm tired.
I'd say it's for gameplay reasons. Godfrey is shown having the guidance of grace and he doesn't resurrect. With Destined Death released, Grace no longer has the power to bring people back to life. The reason we still come back is simply that having your save file deleted upon death is way too punishing.
Imagine if your character save file gets deleted any time Maliketh kills you
Not being able to die until God says so is pretty metal.
I noticed how the unalloyed golden needle that you can use in Placidusax's arena doesn't remove your grace. This might further imply that the Greater Will isn't an outer god like we already expected
Are people considering the Greater Will an outer god? Always thought of outer gods as a god that doesn't have the Lands Between as its home turf, hence the term outer as opposed to the Greater Will being the god of this land.
@@Ydigisek Well that's what people said when the game first came out, the Greater Will at first glance does have a similar nature to outer gods so people just assumed that's what they were called. It's only recently that people noticed that it doesn't really make sense.
The greater will has some power over gold, so the neddle being made of that material may allow the greater will to overpower the other gods, so it still doesn't have to be different in nature from the pther gods
@Corfean The gold thing isn't literal. The Greater Will doesn't have the power to literally control gold. That's just the color its power manifests as.
@@Ydigisek yes, the common theory early one was the the erdtree was parasitic in nature and taking over the great tree. But we had learned now that the great tree was burned, the turn it into the crucible and one of the branches of the crucible eventually became the Erdtree.
We used to give people blessings and stuff is now is dying.
This is why all the npcs can die when you can't, they all go off about how they can't see the guidance of grace anymore, while you still can. Maybe it's not so much that we're not allowed to die, but we're the only tarnished who's not lost faith in their mission, kind of like going hollow in dark souls.
yes! When you completed the game you can "die" as in stop playing and, on the other hand, you "die" when you decide not to play anymore before completing it. There are and there will be players who try to complete the game, they are the ones blessed by grace - the will to play the game. It's all really clever. Grace is an actual game mechanic that lets you travel and regain hp/fp and when you dont play you literally cant see it anymore because the game is closed.
@@CJ-wh7ikI always loved the connection between going hollow and leaf life in Dark Souls but I never eealized Elden Ring had this too with people losing sight of grace!
Wait a minute... This is like Determination in Undertale! Complete with saving at a bright yellow spark thing. Holy crap!
Considering Elden Ring takes place in the LANDS BETWEEN, to me I interpret it as all these different characters reside in the worlds and lands of other FromSoft games such as Demon/DarkSouls/Sekiro (Yuras armor literally describes the world of Sekiro where he turns into the Demon and turns to bloodshed. As well as Vyke is literally the soldier from Dark Souls, the DragonArmor lady aswell etc.)
Basically Marika sent the Tarnished out to live a full life and when they die… “what was once taken, shall be returned” and they were given back their Grace to use the knowledge they’ve gained in their life from other games/Worlds/Lands to bring about change to the land that has been suffering due to Deaths removal and Marikas changed mind on Eternal Life
(Since her first born Godwyn was now eternally suffering… unable to reincarnate and unable to die…She realized The Gloam Eyed Queens way of Death may have been a better possibility and then continues to SHATTER the Elden Ring giving way to possible change)✨🧐
They are similar but Miyazaki already debunk this theory by saying that all of fromsoftware game doesn't share the same universe and have no connection to each others
"The world of Sekiro"
Japan?
For me it's pretty horrifying. Greater will allowed Tarnished to be banished beyond the fog to fight battles to death and then ressurrects them after that suffering to die endlessly by enemies that far outmatch them in power (Demigods). Only to be outcasted again whenever they become useless. Many of them are indoctrinated and/or just feel the need to go to erdtree like moths into the light, which i assume is due to greater will's influence on them. Essentialy Tarnished are slaves and tools to the greater will, sentenced to suffer many lifetimes until they outlive their usefulness. After all gold only serves well those who have power and doesn't accept any impurity.
@@alfalldoot6715 that's because they don't have grace anymore. I think it's because they either lost faith and motivation to become Elden Lord or because they became obstacle for the player, who is the number one candidate for throne.
100%
@@FayeRantTheStrong Exactly - so many tarnished tell you 'I can't see it anymore'
@@FayeRantTheStrong Ok
Little wonder that Ranni went to such lengths to sever herself from the influence of the Greater Will, given it had no problem screwing over Godfrey and the other Tarnished after all they'd done, banishing them, then bringing them back and forbidding them to die until they'd solved a problem they couldn't have possibly had a hand in creating.
I'd shank a demigod or two if I was in that situation.
Tarnished - died for the 304th time
"Please, let me die!"
Outer gods - "I did not give you permission."
This has been my biggest question that I felt nobody was asking. Though I used to think that grace wasn't necessarily tied to the Greater Will or the Erdtree since we still revive after the tree burns down, and we still have it even when we're doing stuff the Greater Will probably wouldn't like, like getting the Flame of Frenzy. I guess the reason we still have grace even when we're clearly working against the Greater Will is that it's just that desperate for a successor and we seem to be the only possible candidate so it'll hold out hope that we could change our mind at the last second because either way the world is lost to them. When the Two fingers at the Roundtable "go silent" and we're told it could take millenia for an answer that's the Greater Will basically giving up on The Lands Between and going "don't bother us with this anymore unless you have an Elden Lord."
The greater will and golden order are two separate things. The greater will doesn’t care what form it’s worship takes, be it the new golden order or an age of those who live in death. It protected the golden order in the past because it’s continued existence was the best way to get worship, but now that Marika went against it they don’t care who takes control as long as the one in control serves them
I like to think the 2 fingers refers to 2 on the mouse pad buttons and back in the day you would have 1 finger each on w a and d on the keyboard. Hence the 2 fingers and 3 fingers who are outer gods who influence the tarnished (we use our hands to control the player tarnished). I always thought it was a sly joke by the dev team 😂
Makes even more sense why I chose the Chaos ending and burned the Erdtree. My mouse has extra buttons for the thumb, so I'm really playing with 3 fingers...
Kind of a morbid reason but that's why I love it
"When it is done, and the erdtree is... ashes. Then you have my permission to die" - the greater will, apparently
Love learning things in Elden Rings. Nice video. 👌
Thanks my friend 🙏
This explains why Godfrey was banished from the lands between. When all enemy's was slain his eyes grew dim as Merika robbed him of his grace. He was cast out to wage war in a land far away until we were called back.
You do great Elden Ring videos bro 💪🏼 Keep up the good work
Thanks My friend, will do!
Your shorts actually say information i am subscribing
Well I half agree: Grace grants life to those who are dead, however it’s Ranni’s tampering with the rune of destined death and possibly Godwyn’s decaying effect on the lands between & erd tree that have thrown the balanced cycle of life, death, & rebirth into a frenzy. Preventing others from dying.
Grace is directly linked to the greater will-an outer god-and Shabriri is brought back to life by the frenzied flame-linked to another outer god-so it’s fairly apparent those who are brought back are chosen by an outer god.
Also worth noting the tarnished don’t come back to life after death in the lore (hence the deaths of tarnished slain and the sin of slaying them). The player character is the only one to exhibit this undying ability and that’s simply for the sake of gameplay mechanics bc it would be exponentially more difficult if death meant you had to restart or the opposite if you were truly undying; in reality the player character technically doesn’t die throughout their journey/quest to become elden lord.
"Oh no, I have been stabbed in multiple places by those wierd menorah lookin' things the Albinaurics wield! I am slain!"
Greater Will: CLEAR! *Grace defib*
Gets my body absolutely slammed, all bones shattered by Horah Loux
The Greater Will: I Got u Fam.
The Greater Will is the goat bro. Im happily married to Ranni
@@thesmiths31061 I am just on the Godfrey/Horah Loux fight, using a pure incantation build, and I felt every last bit of that lol
@@prestongiles9917 I have like 5 different characters with different builds. They each will experience a different ending lol. I have one with just incantations and omfg I suck ass lol
However something I don’t get is that there’s a bunch stuff in the lore that should be able to kill our Tarnished like Destined Death or the Black Flame, which we get blasted with a lot, and we still get back up.
most likely gameplay reasons
Sometimes things are just gameplay
Also the black flames have had Destined Death removed from them so it is essentially just really strong fire.
Gameplay and Story Segregation
You do die. We die. We don't stay dead. It's not that we are immune it's that we resurrect.
They just kill end, we are reborn. Are body turned to nothing and are existence wiped only to return hours to days later.
Some tarnish die permanently but it's usually the player involved. And we see resurrection takes time. It could just be they haven't resurrected yet. Or because they can no longer see the guidance of grace that they lose their retroactive immortality.
Never have I heard a better explanation as to what the tarnished are. Thank you VERY much!!!!!!!!😆✨
I used to imagine that when I finally beat a boss it was like my characters first attempt but I love imagining these bosses being confused because this same guy keeps coming to fight him over and over😂😂
Also would explain why characters like Rogier and Blackguard don’t come back since they have lost the guidance of grace
…or they’re not the main character.
"If I can't die, then neither can you!!"
-Marika, probably
Great, but bear in mind, it's not the Greater Will that grants Grace to the Tarnished. Matter of fact, the Greater Will directly opposes the Tarnished from becoming Elden Lord. By preventing the Two Fingers from giving wisdom after Morgotts defeat (who loved Erdtree), locking the Erdtree, to then fighting us via possessed Radagon and Elden Beast. It's also directly stated that the Greater Will abandons not just the Demi-Gods, but the entire land. My theory is that grace given to the Tarnished is Marika/Radagon's last attempt to overthrow the Greater Will.
“Come, brave Tarnished. This is no place to die”
On an unrelated note, I need to know what that armor is the Elden Lord is wearing at the end, that looks amazing.
Tree sentinel set.
I had always assumed it had to do with Marika removing the Rune of Death from the ring itself and that's why nobody could really die a true death.
I love how from soft takes technicalities or capabilities of gaming and turns them into plot points. It's genuinely so fun. Every single thing u have is somehow connected to the essential story of the game on some Kevin bacon shit
Greater Will really holding us hostage from dying
Another reason is the fact that maliketh sealed away destined death, that’s why most overworld enemies respawn
no, they respawn because it’s the game mechanic
@@12branko12 ofc smart guy, it’s the lore reason
And that’s when I burned the tree down and become Chaos Lord
Sadly you are still a pawn of the greater will, as the frenzied flame is still one of them. No matter what Tarnished are destined to serve in the end, for if they were not they would not have been granted grace
Imagine being so bad at being a demi-god the gods of gods give up and just decides to give the chance to some really eccentric people
I think marika offered this before she was imprisoned. It's the clear the greater will doesn't want you to take the throne and I'm guessing it wants everyone to suffer forever as punishment for Rannis (and I think Marikas) rebellion.
Excellent reel homie I really think you nailed the length and the style for it! Hope it can provide you a bit of growth in the long run!!
Thanks as always my friend! Just trying to reach different viewers who maybe prefer short form content
Nice to see you over here in Shorts!
You are still the #1 long-form lore master!
So that explains why every other tarnished npc mentions they cant see the guidance of grace and are able to be killed.
Technically the tarnished do die, but they do get resurrected. It's by GoG or by some other entity by the end of the Horah Loux boss fight
“Seams to stem” adds an unsure air in Myazaki’s statement. The screen shows the quote with the “seams to” and just says “stems from” adding finality and no wiggle room.
Cheers for pointing that out
Tarnished: *Dies.*
The greater will: "No, you don't."
That makes me think more about when characters ask if you can still see the guidance of grace, or how it might feel to be a Tarnished who once saw the guidance of grace and subsequently lost it. The way it's talked about suggest an overall awareness of the divine selection and immortality of some above others.
Black guard lost his guidance of grace after he claimed he didn't want to be elden lord or lost his confidence since in his dying words he wanted to be elden lord but didn't believe in himself.
Perhaps guidance of grace only chooses those who are, well...
"Emboldened by the flames of Ambition"
Since black guard doesn't feel Ambitious to become elden lord or to become something more he lost the guidance of grace, he did call it bollocks after all.
The more we delve deep in Elden lore, the more Frenzied Flame becomes the necessary outcome for the world. "MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD"
such an afterthought of an explanation lmao it basically boils down to “because we said so”
It just clicked for some reason after having this video shown to me again. I truly understand the lore now after years 🤣😭
“When that is done, and the Erdtree is ASHES….**then you have my permission to die.**
That is such an interesting and smart interpretation of the intro, can't believe I dind't see it earlier!
The short of all time!
Hell yeh haha
Love these shorts man thanks!
my head cannon is that the tarnished we play as is a bunch of different corpse ashes eventually brought together by the greater will as an amnesiac newborn tarnished who is being controlled to eventually create an order.
This explains the character creator, classes, and the fact that we have infinite respawns
Ohhh that little detail about the grace appearing next to each of the major characters in the intro was neat. I thought my opinion of the erdtree couldn't get any lower.
Tarnished: I can't beat this boss
Greater Will: You gon learn!
The fact that the dung eater was graced with life too makes it very interesting. The greater will would rather have a whole world of cursed ones than what it currently is then
I'm pretty sure Marika is the one that brought the Tarnished back, at least from what Melina says pretty much all but states it. She sent Godfrey and his warriors away to grow stronger and eventually die. Then they would be brought back to life so that one of them would become Elden Lord.
Marika is the one who removed the grace but the fingers/Greater Will are the ones who returned it
@Al Fall Doot Melina states that Marika is the one who gave Grace back. "In Marika's own words. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey"
@@MetalCaffeine56 But Marika is still pretty clearly out of commision in the erdtree. She knew that the tarnished would come back eventually, so that's why she said that. Plus, Enia's dialogue says that the Fingers extended the grace.
@Al Fall Doot But it's implied that a lot of what the Two Fingers say is very biased in favor of the Greater Will. And from what other characters like Gideon say, they've been pretty useless for a long time.
@Metal Caffeine Well, I don't know why the Two Fingers being biased for the GW has to do with anything. Gideon doesn't say they're useless, just that they've lost their purpose, which could mean anything. Plus, like I said before, Marika is seemingly comatose in the erdtree, so how would she know that all the demigods are out of commison and then give grace back.
Fascinating how this feels almost like the complete opposite of the Dark Souls Trilogy's Undead Curse
the age of duskborn ending corrects this aspect in which the golden order had removed death entirely
This is absolutely true. Varré explicitly states this himself in the beginning
I always thought it was destined death keeping them alive but this makes more sense
tarnished: reaches haligtree*
greater will: grabs popcorn*
Everytime I see “Guidance of Grace” I read it in Varre’s voice.
imagine if guidance in baldur’s gate 3 worked like this. immortality button for your first cleric cantrip let’s go
THANK YOU this is a heavily underdiscussed topic in Elden Ring! How is it explained that we revive at a site of grace when dead? Why is it that the Tarnished and many enemy types turn to ash as they die, while others remain as corpses in the world? What decides how one dies?
This is also why we need the Scadutree fragments in the realm of shadow. We’re removed from grace, the source of much of our power
I remain skeptical that the Greater Will is singularly in control (if at all) of the Guiding Grace, would love to see them expand a bit more on its nature and function but I suspect it will remain a mystery
It's implied from Melina that Marika is the one in control of grace and gave it back to the Tarnished after they died so that one of them would become Elden Lord.
@@MetalCaffeine56 Considering we can respawn at Stakes of Marika, I'd say it's a fair guess.
Could explain why no matter what, we get to keep our Grace.
name another game that has lore behind respawning. this game is true art. 1600 hours and im still impressed by this masterpiece
Tarnished are shown dead on the intro, but after that if I am not mistaken once you kill them they are dead for good. They don't show again; however, in the first moments, when Melina "rescues" you after the fight with grafted scyon, I think you do revive on your own, maybe that's why you are chosen by her, cause the grace seems to revive you more than once; or maybe is the other way around. She is the one that choses you and makes you able to revive.
Dung eater after he's "done": yeah about that
I wanna know why we don't lose our grace when we go for certain endings. Ranni and the frenzied flame particularly, ranni would see that the greater wills influence would be up ended in the lands between and the flame of frenzy would burn down everything it built
I think it gets lots on people that most of the people we fight are just immortals whose minds withered away
I threw a molten honeybun at the red tree and got the frenzied flame ending
Lol gwyn is that you. The age of fire will never end
Just to let you know there is a difference between Grace and the Guidance of Grace. No tarnished has Grace hence the name “tarnished” referring to Godfrey’s armies eye’s tarnishing when they were sent out of The Lands Between. Guidance of Grace however, is what resurrects the tarnished and most tarnished NPCs we meet say they once saw the guidance of grace but have lost it and that we are special for seeing guidance. Just wanted to clarify, if you have any other questions I’d be happy to answer.
Follow the Guidance of Grace. Don’t you dare go Hollow!
My headcanon is that Grace only goes to the tarnished it thinks/sees in the future are most likely to succeed. So when a new tarnished comes along (the player) most other tarnished lose the guidance of grace because the grace sees that the player is going to become the Elden lord. This could be way off the mark since I’m around 35 hours into the game though lol
The topic of the main character’s immortality is always interesting to discuss. My theory is that, while the Guidance of Grace did resurrect us two times (one time in the opening cutscene and the other after we are defeated by the grafted scion), every death that happens later is not canon. After all, in every video game there always are some events that happen but are reversed, Godfrey killing Serosh and claiming the name Hoarah Loux being a great example. Also, the fact that the Greater Will is helping us achieve lordship may explain why we can defeat every demigod and more without dying, which is probably seem as insanely lucky for other characters that witness our journey as a one single try (the Force from the Star Wars universe might be a good comparison).
I like how in Dark Souls immortality is always a curse or an affliction, but in Elden Ring they change it and instead reframe it as a great blessing. I wonder what the distinction is there, or if they're simply looking at it in a different light in this game.
I love the idea we’re a Marika bastard waking up in a mausoleum. Our power is we don’t quit. Like a dark fantasy terminator. We wipe out the old & may chaos take the world!!!
That also explains why other tarnished aren't immortal, as most of them have some comment about losing that guidance
I found a Dollar store vaatividya
tarnish: i'm dying, greater will let me be free.
greater will: lol site of grace go whooosh
So does that mean my thousands of deaths are cannon?😂
Just another reason why the chaos ending is the best ending.
Finally that mystery is explained
Great explanation
I'm happy to say my guy finished the race so 1 made it thru.
“Yay I finally beat Godfrey!”
“Rematch?”
Unless im missing context the very concept of death was taken from the Elden Ring, an object that governs the laws of reality and given to Maliketh to keep it safe this is why we have to kill him so we can introduce death back to the world...
This shard of the Elden Ring is so powerful even just having fragments of it makes you terrifying to fight just look at the Black Knife Assassin group who stole parts of the Death Fragment and in lore are stated to be one of the few ways people can truely die.
When the Grace of Hope entered the Palm of the Dead hand at the beginning of this video, it should have zoomed in super close to show an epic large landscape, which being a close up of the palm of his hand, and show the Bright Yellow Grace of Hope transform into some kind of strange alien looking, organic drill. But a very wide drill, like the Fire Nation Drill that slowly bore through the humengous walls of Ba Sing Se. And make it like a very prolonged drill sequence, like from the perspective of an insect, a giganetic world that to them is massive but to us living creatures who arent bacteria or atomic sized, its just a instantaneous seconed. Like Magic School Bus type of scenes, how all Biology actually has a mechanism. It would be very loud and scary to see such a huge drill digging into the landscape world, the palm of the hand from up close, like shaky cam etc, as if an atomic sized human was looking at this drill the size of a Skyscrapers coming down from the Sky. As if it Emerges from a Magical Ball of Light! I would love to see that! And maybe once it gets inside the scene can transform to Yellow Spiritual Essence travelling up the blood stream in like Shiny wispy Golden Magical Chariots with see thru transparent Gold Horses and yellow glamour etc pulling it up to the heart of the Cadaver.
I believe our tarnished doesn't die multiple times lorewise. Unlike dark souls or sekiro, no character acknowledges the fact that you are coming back to life (or rewinding time), so i think cannon revival only happens once in the prologue.
I CALL FOR THE TARNISHED TO UNITE UNDER THE MIGHTY OMEN KING!!! WE SHALL MAKE HIM ELDEN LORD AND BE HIS NEW NIGHT'S CAVALRY!!! WE SHALL SERVE HIM FOR THE REST OF OUR DAYS UNTIL OUR BLADES ARE WORTH NO MORE!!! EVEN IF WE HAVE TO PRY OFF MALENIA'S PROSTHETIC ARM!!!
Urd trees are hella similar to Billianna Trees❤
Also in one of the churches marika mentions that the duty of the tarnished is to die in a foreign land in battle, implying she has a saying into this whole matter.
This Reinforcing the argument that the Erdtree is just a giant, golden, glorified parasite that just kinda crashed into the lands between.
Getting flashbacks from Hyperion in the Borderlands series. Literally just a corporation that keeps reviving the player until they've outlived their profitability.