I was honoured to be there for the 79th anniversary this past June where I was able to lay a wreath during a ceremony. The wife(if I’m remembering correctly) of one of the men who found the graves of these Canadians still lived across the street from the Abbey. She was very old but invited us into her backyard and broke bread with us. It was an experience I’ll never forget. She and her family quite literally dedicated their entire lives to making sure the memory of these men were never forgotten. In French she said “when I’m gone, I hope that young people will still come here to honour these Canadians who died for the freedom of France.”
Oh my, what a comment. It has brought me to tears. I am so grateful to that wonderful woman of France who deserves a special acknowledgement from our Government.
French guy here. I'm 56, so well aware of what happened here decades ago. I am teaching my kids ( 16 and 28 yo) regularly, on how our freedom 's price was very costly for the guys who crossed the Atlantic for liberating us. Plus: i was born and raised in Dieppe, and tehn, take them with me, every 19th of August to the Canadian Cemetery, to pay a tribute to your fallen ones. Merci. Votre sacrifice n'est pas oublié ici. Soyez-en surs.
My grandfather served in the 12th SS panzer division under Witt and Meyer. He was transferred to the 12th SS panzer division after a brief stint with the 2nd SS panzer division Das Reich. War is a tragedy.
If you don’t mind my asking, when and where did he serve? I’ve always wanted to speak to a relative of a Wehrmacht veteran. I’m a complete history nut and especially like WWII history.
@@caseyynelmss He was born august 1923 in Fussen. He was a member of the Hitler youth from 1937. From there was enthusiastically encouraged to join the Weapon SS, which he did in 1942. He saw action in Normandy, Caen. The Falaise pocket and the Ardennes offensive where his war ended. He was wounded in the leg arm and face and was taken prisoner. (How he met my grandmother). His English rose how he put it. He died in 2006. He only spoke of it toward the end of his life. Always lying about the scar on his face that fascinated me as a child. I have his decorations, iron cross 2nd class, wound badges etc and photographs of him with his comrades in the division at various points and locations. I asked him about the terrible crimes. He admitted there were many, but he did not agree or participate in such things. He admitted to being fully indoctrinated by the regime, a believer. However he pointed out there were thousands of troops and within those thousands there were groups of individuals that had little to no moral standards and would commit atrocities that disgusted many of the troops and officers alike. Saying Fritz Witt a much admired commander, was furious when he heard of it, demanding a full and immediate investigation from Kurt Meyer. He told me that time of his life was both the best and worst times of his life and war is a tragedy.
@@Dairy917 I just watched this video and saw your comments. Twenty six minutes prior. Any male born in 1923 in a nation involved in WWII would have had to serve if healthy. However, Being born in Germany, or Russia. Raised you odds of being wounded or killed.
@@Dairy917 Thank you very much, and I’m sorry he passed. Always think it’s amazing to hear history from someone who either lived it or heard it from someone who did.
My Uncle Frank Dyke fought with the Canadians during the battle of Caen. I grew up in his house, so my brother and I were always asking for war stories. We got lots of good information, over the years about many aspects of France, Amsterdam,Belgian and Germany during the 1940’s. We didn’t get the gruesome stuff, but we got a really good understanding of the horrors of war. It was impressed upon us that it was much different than it was portrayed in books and film. I have good recollection of his stories of Caen, Carprique,Frank Dyke was a deeply religious man, the more I learn about the places he fought, the more I understand about what he saw and experienced. RIP Frank Dyke and all those young men.
That was really hard to watch. Those poor souls. This put a lump in my throat. Not an easy film to make but a story that has to be told. Thanks for putting it out here, I’m grateful. Cheers pal
I'm so glad you appreciate the video and my attempt to tell the story. Definitely not a nice one to research but I think it's a very important one. I really appreciate the feedback buddy
Absolutely ,my first time seeing one of your videos and I really appreciated the lack of loud unnecessary music. Thankyou for a moving and informative film. Now subscribed.
My Grandfather a WWII veteran himself. Told me a friend of his was one of The Canadian Soldiers Murdered at The Abbey of Ardenne. If Im correct I believe he said Kurt Meyer only got 5 years in Dorchester for this Atrocity. His friend was Reg Keeping a member of The North Nova Scotia Highlanders.
You are a credit to the memories of the fallen soldiers. As a Canadian, I am saddened and angry that this tragedy happened to our soldiers. I am sickened by the cold, calculated murder of defenceless captured men. It doesn’t matter which side is guilty of these crimes, it’s the ugly, side of humanity. We are capable of unspeakable evil.
@stephenlewis2975 The Americans did the same to German prisoners at Chenogne, also in the Bulge. The US 11th Armored Division troops massacred 80 German prisoners in cold blood. Very similar to the Malmedy massacre. Chenogne was covered up and nobody was punished for it. Even Patton knew about it and helped to cover it up.
@@lyndoncmp5751 There you go, an example that the Allies were not without those who carried out executions to captured Wehrmacht. In WW1 the Canadians were so feared by the Germans that they tried to avoid having to face them in battle because of the reputation that we (Canadians) had done some terrible things that I won’t mention here. TH-cam has some videos that describe the brutality of some Canadian units in night raids where unsuspecting Germans were met with their extreme wrath. Yes, Canadians are polite, courteous people, but when they are called upon in military actions, something changes….
@@Mrkaycee7 Yes I heard that before particularly the WW1 part. In fact I've heard it used as a reason/excuse for SS reprisals on them in Normandy. 25 years is a long time to get your own back though, so not quite sure I believe that. Cheers.
War crimes are war crimes. Wrong is wrong no matter the side or excuse. That said, I always find it interesting, to my knowledge, that no allied war crimes are ever talked about? Certainly to the degree German war crimes are. Victors really do write the history books.
One well talked about is Monte Cassino. But I do not think many people know what a war crime is. A war crime is basically a purposeful killing innocents for no other reasons. Monte Cassino was bombed into oblivion, killing a thousand plus innocents, because the allies believed that German soldiers were located there. THe allies were wrong, it was a mistake, but not a war crime. Compared to the industrial scale of german war crimes, there really isn't much to talk about on the Allied side, and this includes the Soviets, who did enact their revenge on Germany.
@@rb239rtr I’m beginning to get it. When the Germans do it, it’s a war crime; when the Western Allies do it, it’s just a mistake and when the Soviet Allies do it, it’s (justified) revenge. So anyway, the first charge brought by the Canadian Military Court against Meyer in the Abbey Ardenne case states: “Committing A War Crime, in that he … , in violation of the laws and usages of war, incited and counselled troops under his command to deny quarter to Allied troops.” How does that fit with your stated definition of war crime?
Another very interesting and informative episode. Thank you very much, I really enjoy your channels content. I cant begin to imagine the hours of research you must do/ have done.
I want to thank you for naming each of the murdered Canadian soldiers because a lot of documentaries will say a few and then kind of blurry through the rest and I appreciate you taking the time to do that
Charles Portway was a British soldier from the Devon or Dorset regiment who found himself captured by a squad of 12th SS in the fighting of July 44 . He went on to describe how well he was treated and couldn't help thinking the germans would not have been treated so well if the situation had been reversed . War is Hell but it also throws up humanity from the strangest situations and sometimes from those you least expect it from.
Hey Rob, this was a really well put together video. Well done. I wait for the inevitible troll attacks from the usual suspects when this kind of content comes around!
Yep, because both sides embellish the stories. Like how the hell would anyone know they shook hands before being shot? Did one escape and tell the tale? I would like to hear that story as well. The victor will always be the first to make "History", its why most of the books written before the 90's or even now (As we have more documents and such today) were very hard to prove etc. and some of the 'Witnesses" like to tell white lies, all sides did this. If you think otherwise your pretty naive.
@@jeffsmith3173 the usual suspects can be quickly identified when you see the other channels they subscribe to and their previous comments which in some cases have been removed by TH-cam as violating community guidelines. Those usual suspects
You forgot to mention, that there was an official order of the Canadian Army to take no prisoners. You could look this up in the war archives and in the reports on the process against Kurt Meyer in Canada (This order was the reasson why Kurt Meyer was not executed by the Canadians - but snd to jail). The men of the 12th SS Panzerdivision found the dead body a german Oberst (Colonel) named Luxemburg - he was bonded on a canadian Taank to serve as a human shield. The mentioned order and the fact that the found murdered german POWs was the reason why they executed these Canadians. A message was sent to the Canadian Army that they will continue to shoot canadian POWs until this mentioned order is revoked - which they finally did.
I’ve never read an account referring to any of what you live said. If you can provide the sources I’ll gladly read them as I’m always looking to learn more about this subject, but I’m afraid I haven’t seen accounts on this before
@user-ke8be8mf9t “Lies”? Here are direct quotes from two of Meyer’s trial judges, both high ranking Canadian army officers, which are clear admissions that killing German prisoners was common: “I don’t believe Meyer pulled the trigger on his captives or gave orders to execute any of them. But I’m sure he knew what happened. SS discipline was such that he couldn’t help but know. But does that make him guilty of murder any more than I’m guilty for knowing about the German prisoners my troops killed?” (Major-General Foster) and “We all knew that our troops at various times were guilty of similar conduct. Whenever it happened we looked the other way. There was an intensity of relationship and affection for those among us who did the actual fighting. The sort of relationship that was unknown in peacetime … But the legal restraints under which we were placed allowed for no other verdict than guilty.” (Lieut.-Col. H.P. Bell-Irving)
Listen, I appreciate your efforts to educate the ignorant typical person these days. It is OBVIOUS that Germany( Nazi AND otherwise) is being deliberately slandered and falsely portrayed, especially in regards to any reports or statements concerning the Second World War and Adolf Hitler. After much study, the only possibility that qualifies universally to the variables is a concerted, disciplined, and indefinite effort by Jewish collective advancement groups/societies through many mediums including the news media, television, books, education systems, and cinema to defame, punish, delegitimize, and damage their economy. This is a pattern that has been in effect since 1933. Support was being sought and solicited before this, due to the racial ideas of a few Germans(scholarly and noteworthy) mostly in the late 1800s, It is important to admit that some of the ideas Hitler allowed to influence policy towards the Jewish people, but this was not prior to the initial aggression and attack of those Jewish collectives in 1933. Look up the headlines for the INITIAL antagonism between Nazi Germany and the Jewish RACE(ethnic).. The headlines read, THE JEWISH PEOPLE DECLARE WAR ON GERMANY. It was an internationally organized and administered economical boycott of any and all German produced goods, and they found international support here in the USA, which is pretty typical, and other countries and the economy was damaged as a result. I hate to confuse anyone that is just a clueless drone, but the actions taken by Hitler(Nazi Germany), including the acts of the Gestapo, were RETALIATORY. They let Jewish people come there and live, open businesses, influence culture, etc and while still using Germany(as it provided better circumstances than the Jews can do for themselves), they were trying to destroy the economy and take money, opportunity, and credibility away from Germany that it earned. The dirty secret and truth is that the Jews started it because they did not appreciate the pro-Aryan/anti-Jewish racial propaganda espoused and supported by certain political and media figures. Racist propaganda is neither illegal nor an act of war. It is the expression and/or attempt to advance an idea. Advancing an idea about the Jewish people was actually the stated main purpose for the foundation of the Jewish groups that started the economic boycott and subsequent blockades and sanctions imposed on Germany. Remember when the war started(hint:it was AFTER 1933) then consider the date that Jews declared war on Germany and its people(1933)Make sure to consider the time frames for the official(government approved/ordered) policing and boycotts of Jews by the Nazj party and those supporters of it.
@JoeLukes; @stephankurz892 You said there was an 'official' Canadian Army order to kill prisoners. That is simply not true. You quoted Lt. Col. H.P. Bell-Irving as saying he knew Canadian troops were guilty of similar conduct, but that is not an admission of 'official' Canadian Army policy. It was never 'official' Canadian Army policy to murder prisoners after capture. However it WAS official policy of the Waffen SS to murder prisoners, including captured soldiers and civilians. (Google: "SANITIZATION OF WAFFEN SS WW2 CRIMES: A DISSERVICE TO THE MEMORY OF THOSE CANADIAN SOLDIERS WHO WERE VICTIMIZED" by David Pugliese, published 23 Nov. 2022 in esprit de corps magazine and available online).
They were moving forward no facilities for taking prisoners so they shot them the Germans however took them prisoner snd then after a bit of torture killed them not always with a bullet
Thanks for reminding us, lest we forget. Since you have reminded us of this part of the story, maybe you should do a 2nd part, wherein you go into detail just how & why Meyer's conviction got overturned, and why he was released early.
As the cold war was starting up, Meyer was released early to become a consultant to the Canadian Army, as he had first hand experience with Soviet tank tactics
@@thehistoryexplorerlooking forward 2 it, my grandfather was with C squadron Fort Garry Horse, its kinda confusing 2 me to try to read about all thier movements on the maps and whatnot, again great vids man👍
At 12:52 there's a clip of Canadian prisoners that appears to be from Italy. There's an officer who is clearly PPCLI and the ORs appear to be from the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment (although it's hard to read their shoulder flashes). The PPCLI (my old regiment) and Hasty P's were in the First Division and fought in Italy from 1943 to 1945. They would not have been in Normandy.
The PPCLI flash sparked my curiosity as well, as they indeed famously fought in Italy. I recognized the other flashes were definitely Royal Winnipeg Rifles immediately, as I inherited some from my uncle, who was at Nomandy. As the Italian campaign was already well underway, could the PPCLI man have been "seconded" to 3rd Div to share battlefield experience ? In any case, a good observation !
Yes, good observation, but doesn’t that look like a 3rd Canadian Infantry Division patch below the PPCLI? It was a light blue as opposed to the 1st’s red patch. I’m inclined to agree with the other commenter that the soldier has been “seconded” to the 3rd in some capacity. Also, the terrain and foliage in the background doesn’t look too Italian, but that point would be hard to prove, admittedly. I looked at the original German newsreel where the footage comes from. To me those scenes all looks like it is from Normandy, but, as we know, the newsreel creators on both sides were want to take extensive liberties to make their point.
All the POWs SCENES are from Die Deutsche Wochenschau 719 which fist played 16/6/44 and was the first German footage from Normandy. If you watch the original there are several views of NNSH POWs. It is Normandy.
Again thank you for more details about this area and the war. I was just there 2months ago, continuing with my documentary. My grandfather as I mentioned before actually was in the engineers company that was following these infantry men. One of the two Canadians you mentioned who were wounded and added to the prisoners- I know now one came for sure from Buron. I have a testimony from a local there. So sad for both sides of this war. Im so grateful my grandfather survived. He was in this war for a total of 34 months. Amazing to me that he even survived at all. He was also Métis. I think Doucette you showed us of Métis origin. Its a prayer bag that is left on his grave.😊
The video mentioned the Canadians were advancing to take Caen. One month later on 7 July, the controversial RAF carpet-bombing of Caen was done. The bombing was considered tactically foolish and considered by many to be a war crime. The result was 80% of the city was destroyed with 3000 civilians dead. The tactically foolishness was the rubble from the bombing afforded many German defensive positions, sniper positions along with blocked streets preventing the use of the British and Canadian tanks
The unfortunate reality still is & always has been, is that there are no rules or laws in total warfare, except ‘kill or be killed!’ But, if as an engaged combatant, your surrender has been accepted, then the military authority accepting you or other PoWs surrender, are hence charged & compelled to comply with international treaties requiring these military authorities to deal with any such PoWs, humanely & in accordance with the Geneva Conventions on the rights, obligations, entitlements & treatments of PoW to & by all parties involved, then & thereafter, & until the formal end of existing hostilities between all warring parties concerned has been agreed & established!
I was astonished when seated in a cafe in Caen the day after 9/11 to hear an inhabitant of Caen go nuts about what the Allies did to Caen during the war and applauding the attack on the twin towers. As a visitor to France I did not approach the lady to ask about her patent anger all those years later
This occurred after the hill 102 massacre where panzer lehr officers were shot and some tied to the vehicles as POW by “inns of court” after which they drove past the 12th ss front lines and ending up being shot to pieces. One can imagine how this was perceived by the soldiers that shot at their own. Even the Allies didn’t take prisoners,..general Maxwell Taylor 101st gave orders not to take prisoners during the Normandy invasion, but as Napoleon stated victor writes history.
@@thehistoryexplorer I provided you with references for the ‘inns of court’ incident over two weeks ago under the comment by stephankurz892. It’s also mentioned in ‘Grenadiers’, which you claim to have read and which you list as a reference for this video.
There is no hard evidence of general taylor giving this order. This would have been an illegal order, either way. No subordinate officer would be obligated to follow this order. Even if it was true, the rumor stated he hinted at not taken prisoners, there was nothing explicit in what he said. Orders have to be explicit.
Thanks for the deep dive into the story of the unfortunate Canadians murdered by the SS. Like every other amateur history student I'd heard the terrible story many times as it comes up in every account of the Ardennes offensive; but never seen the actual locations and even the structures where the incidents occurred. Your account is just as good as anything on history or Military channel.
Thank you very much. Although the Abbey is called Abbey Ardennes it actually doesn’t have anything to do with the Ardennes offensive which occurred in Belgium and across the German border. I’m so glad you enjoyed the video 👍
Great video, very moving and informative. I also admire your patience in dealing with the whataboutism comments by your critics. There is an excellent book on this subject by an historian named Margolian entitled Conduct Unbecoming.
Heard of some of these war crimes, but probably not to this depth. Thanks for putting this together. Atrocities of war should always be remembered. I noticed the date of these was June 7, 1944, which was the day after D-Day. It doesn't justify what happened, but I couldn't help but to think, that the 12th SS commander was probably so pissed off at what was happening from the day before, that this was probably a response to how he felt at the time. It makes me believe that he probably felt the reality of...this was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich. You hear of atrocities like this and Mai Lai in Vietnam and it really makes you think of the reality of war, and what effect it can have on the soldiers. War is terrible enough just fighting each other, but a necessary evil when evil governments try and make everyone else in the world conform to their way of governing and thinking. It's also sad to think what was sacrificed in the name of stopping the Nazi's, and yet today we still see people subscribing to their ideals, and boldly protesting for it. Thanks for posting. Cheers!!
Thank you so much buddy. I know exactly what you mean, equally the 12th SS had suffered heavy losses from air attacks themselves and claimed they were also retaliating for allied bombing of Germany. You can never justify their actions though. I really appreciate your comment 👍
Unit history records no such heavy losses during the march to Normandy. They lost no armoured vehicles, no heavy equipment, artillery guns flak guns etc. Yes they did loose some trucks and light personnel losses. Can you please elaborate on these heavy losses??? Unit history does mention and there are photos of a French civilian bus that was strafed caught fire and the passengers burnt to death. Unfortunate casualties of war which no doubt they didn't want.
@@thehistoryexplorer Most of these kids grew up with families and neighbors being killed and neighborhoods being reduced to rubble by allied bombing. That experience would actually be a rather natural and obvious motivator for anyone regardless of nationality, so why would you question it? Two wrongs don't make a right, so I agree it doesn’t justify what they did, but this particular context shouldn't be ignored or minimized.
I got to visit Normandy a few years back and I would urge all who can make the trip to do so. It's amazing to see first-hand where this history unfolded and so many sacrificed all. There are many good museums and displays scattered all over the area. If you visit, try to stay at least three days and book a tour on a day.
Both sides murdered surrendered soldiers. I’ve heard horrible stories of murdering surrendering Germans from American veterans while growing up in the 60s and 70s. Everyone always said it was revenge. Both sides committed war crimes of equal violence. I wish I documented these stories as a young man.
I have studied WW2 on and off since I was a kid.(1964) First time I heard of this. I will go to my grave learning more new things about this milestone human event called World War Two.
Well I can't speak for soldiers in Normandy, but when I was in the British Army it was made very clear what constituted 'illegal' action against enemy soldiers and the implications you might face if you didn't follow military law. A very pertinent point (given this video's subject) was 'if you take a prisoner, it is your responsibility to see they are not mistreated and are escorted safely to the rear as POWs'. @@thehistoryexplorer
I think a civilisation is judged by the way it treats its helpless. Germany made a great deal of its 'civilisation' and 'culture'. Yes, all armies have potential to commit war crimes, but the Germans in general and SS in particular were up to their necks in it. Of course, officers set the tone. Mohnke seems to have been the worst in 12th SS. should bear in mind the 12 SS was around 17000 strong so clearly not everyone was a murderer.
You only hear about the SS units doing it, but they certainly weren’t there only ones. Even less you never hear about the Allies killing prisoners, but it was certainly done.
All of the non-cadre (easter volunteers) defending the normally beaches taken prisoner were forced onto Murmansk bound ships where they were executed upon arrival. That is why there are so few memoirs from the axis defenders in the Stationary units except for the ethnic German Cadre (experienced soldiers w/ heald wounds that limited their mobility)
I had an Uncle that shot SS every sunset at Dachau on orders none other then General Eisenhower. Each surrendering German military personal were ordered to strip off their tunics and under shirts. With raised arms Regular Army went in one direction ( safe treatment) those with SS lighting bolts that were tattooed under their arms by the arm pit were put into execution line. Seems the SS tattooed every man so they could be identified if they deserted to by shot in front of their SS peers. The US troops were ordered to feed them a class A hot field meal. At sunset they were marched to the bottom of a low hill and lined up in a straight line in front of a Sherman tank with a .30 caliber machine gun and a brand new full belt of ammo. A US Corporal would walk down the line and offer a last cigarette to each man and provided a light. As the last man tossed his cigarette the highest ranking SS men about to be executed would click his heels an Salute a Heil Hitler. To the man every SS man to be executed responded in kind. My Uncle was a tank Sargent and he was the one on the Browning .30 caliber machine gun. He had been the Tank platoon commander of 4 tanks. They were the first to pull up and liberate Dachau. He was ordered to guard the concentration camp prisoners to prevent the Germans from returning to finish the job. He absolutely hated every SS man he saw. He stated Eisenhower ordered this be done, because the US knew it would have to help setup a form of Government in Germany at the end of the war. Eisenhower quote” did not want any fanatical SS to be in any power of authority in the new German government” his solution was executing these men. I care very much about him as a man, but feel each one of them should have been tried. At that point of the war he was so filled with hate of what he saw, he was easily ordered to do this. No excuses, but he said if anyone was going to be tried for shooting prisoners it would be him. That’s why he did it daily. He did not allow anyone else to do it it maliciously treat the SS prisoners. He said it did bother him to treat them humanly , but was also order to do so. Seriously he hated what he saw at Dachau. I know I will get vile responses , but facts are facts. One last thing. Eisenhower ordered SS everyone of them to be executed thru out Germany. No where do you read about this that I know of.
@@MikeJMarine It is known (or should be) that US troops murdered German POWs at Dachau. Naturally the usual excuses are given and no one was ever held accountable. However, the part of your story about the Waffen-SS tattoos is not factual. These tattoos were actually the individual’s blood group, the purpose of which should be obvious in combat conditions. Regular Wehrmacht soldiers had their blood groups stamped on their ID tags.
@@daedra5651 The murdered soldiers referred to were not camp guards, but just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time; nor was Dachau an extermination camp, as you seem to believe.
As an American, I'm humbled by the way the French, Belgians, Dutch, British and so many other European countries have honored us with these immaculately kept cemeteries and memorials to the Allies that died fighting for them. We never see them in disrepair or vandalized. We thank you from the depths of our hearts and souls.
When we talk about warcrimes i only mention "Rheinwiesen"!My Grandpa was held as a PoW there and they where only surviving eating gras and chewing leather because the Americans gave them not even the minimum of things they needed to survive!Lukily he survived but was a shadow of himself(around 50 kg) and severe psychic trauma!He was a vehicle maintenance mechanic,no combat unit!Despite this,he later worked for the US armed forces as civil mechanic!He forgave,but never forgot!
@@thehistoryexplorer Oh i see!What i wrote not important because they were german PoWs,right?Because your answer implicates that that was a good thing and the the suffering was not that much!Your remarks trying to implcate that because the SS Units did murder the canadian soldiers its not important what the US did to non combatant soldiers and other german PoWs!That sound very hypocritical!Dont you think??And Warcrime is warcrime,is it murder or treating PoW inhuman!But hey!With this comment you made yourself untrustworthy about your so called documentaries!And shows where you stand!FO🤮And giving yourself a heart to your comment makes it more pathetic!
@@williwass6837 You are right. This is not a balanced documentary, nor is it well-researched as I have tried to point out in some of my comments. The result is that it does more to incite, rather than to inform. Eighty years after the fact we should be able to review incidents like this within the proper overall historical context, not in isolation, and without vilifying one side while continuing to pretend the other side was completely innocent because its crimes were never investigated or prosecuted.
the post- May 1945 prisoner camps were closed in September 1945, with most prisoners sent home. Only a few were held for war crimes. What else was happening in 1945? Oh yes, millions of refugees, road and rail infrastructure destroyed thoughout europe, starving people in France, Holland, Germany. Farmers displaced by fighting, no food reserves. It was the Allied armies that fed western europe for a year or two, until the countries could get back on their feet.
@@rb239rtr Yeah,the samaritans!And by the way,dont say "The Allies"Say the "WESTERN ALLIES",because russia did shit!And if you dont get it ,we talk about warcrimes!Which the Rheinwiesen were!We are not talking about average things that happen!
Interesting/informative/entertaining. Excellent still/motion photography/maps. Enabling viewers to better understand what the orator was describing. Once the allies had a permanent foot hold on Normandy. With severe military supply shortages. Russians purging German military forces westward. The war was quickly becoming a strain on what military forces and supplies were available for the disillusioned Berlin leadership to disperse.
Thank you very much, I’m glad you appreciate the explanations. In my attempt to improve the channel I’ll find ways to animate those areas and make it look more professional
War is terrible to both sides. The video states 12 SS suffered heavy lossed due to Allied air attacks while moving up to the front. But the divisional history does not reflect this, they lost no armoured vehicles or heavy equipment, some trucks perhaps. It states 12th SS shot prisoners late in the day of June 7. Lets not forget Allied soldiers began shooting German prisoners shortly after midnight on June 6 and there are 4 documented cases of Allied soldiers including Canadians killing prisoners on June 6. Usual excuse is they didn't have the facilities to care for them. On the morning of June 7 the British Innes of Court reconnaissance unit captured 13 German prisoners from Panzer Lehr division, tied an Oberst to the turret of the lead tank shot the other 12 in the head. The dead bodies were found by soldiers of Hitlerjugend. So they knew what they were up against. The Allies were not taking prisoners. Video states in Authie the Germans dragged wounded into the streets and drove over them with tanks?? The units involved were panzer company 6 and 3rd battalion SS panzer grenadier rgt 25. Unit history states the tanks did NOT enter the town due to heavy anti tank gun fire. The commanders of both these units survived the war why were they not prosecuted. German medic Paul Hinsburger who was there on the day states we treayed the wounded of both sides. Video states Kurt Meyer fled the Abbey Ardennes leaving behind a bottle of champagne and a bowl of cherries, which the Canadians enjoyed??? Really!!! Kurt Meyer left the Abbey on 14 June when he was promoted to divisional commander, the Abbey was captured on July 8. Did 12 SS shoot prisoners, yes they did. Video fails to mention that when divisional command became aware of what was happening on June 11 chief of staff SS Sturmbahnfuhrer Hubert Meyer issued strict instructions that all prisoners were to be treated according to the Geneva Convention.
I was waiting for the ‘what about’ trolls to come along 👍 the sources I used are as follows: Sources: [Ardenne Abbey massacre - Wikipedia] [Abbaye d’Ardenne - Veterans Affairs Canada] [12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend - Wikipedia] [(PDF) Kurt Meyer on Trial: A Documentary Record] [D-Day veteran’s harrowing tale of advancing deep behind Nazi lines - TH-cam] [WarHistoryOnline - The Ardenne Abbey Massacre] [The 1942 Dieppe Raid - Veterans Affairs Canada] [WarMuseum.ca - A Chronology of Canadian Military History - Canada at D-Day, 1944] [Grenadiers: The Story of Waffen SS General Kurt “Panzer” Meyer] [The 12th SS by Hubert Meyer] [World War II: 12th SS Hitlerjugend Panzer Division Fought in Normandy] [Guerres et violences à l’abbaye d’Ardenne]
So I,m apparently a troll. Was there any part of my statement that was incorrect or misleading. Or are you just annoyed that someone had a different opinion than yourself.
@@thehistoryexplorer He is a troll. He has come after me. I told him is spouting myths and nonsense but just keeps doing it. He's clearly a fan of the 12th SS.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory Yes we will absolutely question you when you sprout nonsense, tell the whole story not just one sided narrow minded jargon to fanboys.
“Sit back, relax”. This is not a sit back, relax video. This is a heartbreaking video and be prepared from the very beginning. Sit back and say thank you to God for these wonderful fighting men.
I keep understanding more and more why the veterans had no mercy on the ss soldiers on their advance into Germany . My uncle never talked about the war and wore his battle face until his death at 93.
I had the honour (pleasure certainly not the correct word) of visiting the Abbey Ardenne back in 2016. Even after being at Beaumont-Hamel and Dieppe earlier in the trip, this place had the eeriest, heaviest feeling of " *something* having happened here."
Am I to understand that 156 Canadian soldiers were killed in captivity by the 12SS and this video covers 20 of them or did I read that wrong? Is the tank reversing over dead/wounded included somewhere in the numbers?
156 Canadian POWs we’re murdered while in captivity by the Germans. Yes I believe the soldiers who had surrendered and were then killed on Authie are included in this total. The account I read said there were two Canadians who were run over by German tanks, but over 20 in total were killed in Authie. Another 20 at the Abbey Ardenne
Superb portrayal, of the brave young men and women, who went before us. They fought and died, for the freedoms we have today, and hopefully will continue to keep! Thank you for your hard work, putting this all together.
"Oh Canada," your sorrow is unspeakable. Your heart cries for the loss of your young sons, sent here to fight and die for France and wrest Freedom from tyranny...so young were their dreams.
Yup, can you image some 20 year old from Summerside PEI caught up in the middle of this and thinking about lobster dinners at his church in August. Unreal and so unnecessary. War is H☆ LL .......
@@thehistoryexplorer I’ve had the privilege of knowing many Canadian veterans - work colleagues, extended family and acquaintances. Not one ever claimed that they enlisted to “stop a tyrant”, at least not to me. But they generally believed what the recruiters and the media told them. Despite that, adventure, lack of job opportunities, the promise of a free university education, or to support “the old country” (Britain) were the main motivators, I was told.
I heard about this 2 years ago and I was absolutely in shock with the brutality of this massacre. And was shocked when I realized this isn't a widely known chapter of ww2 and it boggles my mind to think if something like this can go so long without being really talked about, what else don't we know about the brutal tactics of that war. Loved the video all the way through. Especially showing respect to each soldier. Thank you for this!
I suspect another thing you didn’t know is that two of the Canadian judges at Meyer’s trial, both field commanders, have admitted that it was not unusual for their men to commit the same crimes.
@JoeLukes I suspect you think I'm one sided person? My answer is no. I've studied also war crimes on Nazi and Japanese soldiers. So please don't think everyone is so naive. Thanks.
@@jtmckinney Please be assured that my comment was not directed at you personally or meant to be judgmental in any way. I was simply trying to point out an even less “widely known chapter of ww2” relative to the subject. But if you were already aware of it, then you should also know that the war crimes admitted to by the Canadian judges were against German soldiers, not Nazis.
@JoeLukes no no. No harm or anything toward you. If I'm wrong tell me, that's how I learn. History is written by the Victor's unfortunately. But I promise you I'm not upset or anything, just I've dealt with WAY too many people who are one sided. But I suspect the reason the world didn't go after them was because of all the misdeeds when the allies found the concentration camps. But also I don't think people know the alot of the officers didn't agree with Hitler. Even the famed "Desert Fox" or Rommel, sorry if I spelled the name wrong, but he was open about not how he didn't agree with the higher ups. But Hitler made him commit suicide so his family would be spared. But I always love talking about things so sorry if my first response But I've studied every conflict and some ain't even American or German. All it ever reminds me of "War is hell".
With all due respect, you are being untruthful or at least careless when you state that Meyer ordered the killings at the Abbey (15:50). The Canadian Military Court acquitted him of having given such an order, but held him responsible for the deaths. You also mention he was charged with the deaths of 23 Canadian POWs at Buron and Authie, but fail to mention that he was acquitted of that charge as well. With regards to the Abbey killings it should be mentioned that two of the trial judges, Major-General Foster and Lieut.-Col. H.P. Bell-Irving (who had been field commanders), expressed clear doubts about the verdict: “I don’t believe Meyer pulled the trigger on his captives or gave orders to execute any of them. But I’m sure he knew what happened. SS discipline was such that he couldn’t help but know. But does that make him guilty of murder any more than I’m guilty for knowing about the German prisoners my troops killed?” (Foster) and “We all knew that our troops at various times were guilty of similar conduct. Whenever it happened we looked the other way. There was an intensity of relationship and affection for those among us who did the actual fighting. The sort of relationship that was unknown in peacetime … But the legal restraints under which we were placed allowed for no other verdict than guilty.” (Bell-Irving) Meyer was also not commander of the 12th SS PzDiv on June 7, as you state (5:00), but commander of the 25th PzGrRgt. He became the divisional commander on June 16, which also puts to question the veracity of your anecdote about leaving champagne and cherries behind in his hurry to escape, since he had already been gone from the Abbey for 3 weeks when it was finally captured.
@@thehistoryexplorer Damning? So why did the judges not believe them? Seems like you’re willing to accept the court’s decisions only when they fit your preferred narrative.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory Ok, we already knew it was Meyer’s HQ and that the court ruled that he was aware. But since you addressed your comment to me specifically, did I say anything that you disagree with?
@JoeLukes If there are so many problems with this video, and you are so determined to point out all of the inaccuracies, why don't you create a video that is so correct that no one can dispute anything you say in the video?
I just finished reading the autobiography of a young German solider who served in the infantry on the Eastern Front. He mentioned his youngest brother being forcibly recruited to the 12th SS at age 17 just before D-Day. He had no interest in the Nazi party or the war in general at that point. Sad that many ended up witnesses to and even unwilling participants in war crimes like this.
This was difficult to watch but well-researched. To the murdered Canadian soldiers I say RIP gentlemen thank you for your service to all of our nations. Meyer was released for the sake of political expediency;those murders occurred on HIS watch,HE is responsible.
At 12:17 the Canadian tank losses are give as 21+ 7 making a total of 28. This is a common error because that is the number given in the War Diary of the Canadian Infantry Regiment who should not be used as a source for a Tank Regiments losses. If we consult the War Diary for 27 CAR we find they wrote off 15 tanks. 12th SS lost 12 Pz IV. This is the number of tanks that were total losses. We do not know how many tanks of either side were damaged. Thus the Canadians lost 15 tanks and the Germans lost 12 Pz IV . More or less even.
Meyer Died in 1961! He was a good officer and soldier! Hitler stated: We are called Barbarians, but never forget that being a barbarian is an honorable title. Meyer was part of the German military elite of the Second World War.
Ok, but bullies are insecure, and Hitler and the rest were the same. In Downfall, just before he left the Bunker with Magda Goebbels to blow their brains out, he said to an adjutant, " You elected us." What a coward, all cowards in the end, only maybe Speer had remorse.
Thank you very, *very much* for making this video honouring the courage and sacrifice of our fallen soldiers. As a Canadian myself, I was aghast when I learned in history class that Kurt Mayer's sentence was initially commuted, then drastically reduced to a mere nine years. No matter which of his "soldiers" (and I use that term *very* loosely, of course) actually carried out these heinous executions, a commander is *always* responsible for the conduct of his men, both in war and at peace. He should have faced the gallows for executing so many innocent prisoners, instead of getting off easily with a nine year sentence. By any reasonal definition, this was nothing less than a gross miscarriage of justice! Is it really any wonder why we as Canadians stand so firmly behind the concept of, "Never again?"
As a Canadian you should also be aghast at what your history class hid from you. Namely that Canadian soldiers committed similar crimes, as admitted by two of the trial judges, as well as the prosecutor, who were also commanders responsible for the conduct of their men. But none of these were ever investigated, much less tried, which is also a gross miscarriage of justice! The concept of "Never again" is just a bad joke under such hypocrisy.
@@thehistoryexplorer Thank you, and I'll definitely be watching for more. There's one particular story my father told me about Canadian troops in Normandy; it may be apocryphal or it may be true, but all I know for sure is that my father worked with the man who told him about it. There was a regiment from Quebec's North Shore region who liberated a farmhouse that had been occupied by an element of the 12th SS Panzer Division, and what they saw there enraged them. We're talking about some pretty graphic stuff here, but suffice to say that the French Canadian soldiers were in no mood to take any prisoners. Not far from the farmhouse, they managed to pin down some of the the Germans responsible for the atrocities in a ditch beside a road. They got on the radio and called up a squad of Canadian tanks, and the tankers rolled forward with one track on the road and one in the ditch. Anybody who ran for it was brought down by a withering hail of gunfire; anyone who didn't run got ground up by the tank tracks. Given the fact that they were Mayer's boys, I'd say they had it coming.😉
@@That70sGuitarist Whether the “story” is true or not, you seem to be fine with a pretty low standard of conduct by the side you’re cheering for. Unfortunately the same argument could be made with equal legitimacy for “Meyer’s boys” (I corrected the spelling for you) killing the Canadians. Most grew up with families and friends being killed or maimed and neighborhoods being reduced to rubble by allied bombing, which experience would also seem to be a rather obvious motivator for revenge.
@@JoeLukes Whether you'd care to admit it or not, there is a vast difference between the deliberate, cold-blooded execution of unarmed prisoners of war (who, having surrendered, have legally become "noncombatants" under the terms of the Geneva Convention) and killing armed Waffen SS troops without mercy. As for having seen their cities destroyed or their families killed by Allied bombers, I would refer you to the words of one Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris, who said, "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind." Had the Allies somehow managed to lose the war, there can be no room for doubt that Arthur Harris would have gone down in history as one of the greatest war criminals ever. The firebombing of Dresden alone would have been enough to seal his fate, and rightly so. The horrible fact of the matter is that there were *untold thousands* of war crimes committed by Allied servicemen against Axis combatants and civilians, yet they were virtually all "swept under the rug," after the war ended by a world that simply wanted to put the war behind them and get on with the business of living. For example, did Allied tank crews and artillery troops routinely use white phosphorous shells against Axis personnel? Damned right, they did! During the Battle Of Britain/the Blitz, did RAF fighter pilots deliberately target clearly marked (big red crosses) unarmed German air-sea rescue aircraft? Absolutely! Were any of them ever charged with war crimes as a result? Nope, not a damned one! War brings out the absolute worst in human beings. Though the Allies' conduct was often seriously tainted (not least of which by their alliance with the evil, murderous villain, Stalin) their cause, ultimately, was still a *just cause.* For the sake of humanity itself, the Axis had to be defeated *at all costs,* and so they were. So no, I'm not "cheering" for either side. As a youth, I trained and prepared for a war that (so far, at least) never happened, and if I had my way, every single Allied war crime would have been punished too. That they weren't even tried was (and still *is* ) a literal travesty, but the world got "victor's justice," then moved on.
I am a Canadian Army veteran. After this happened, the Canadian Division took few if any SS Prisoners of War. They became known as the "Murder Division". Some official complaints were made, but the Canadians either ignored them, or they were "lost in a paperwork shuffle" Live by the Sword and Die by the Sword.
I will assume you know, as a Canadian Army veteran, that Lieut.-Col. Bruce Macdonald was the chief prosecutor at Meyer’s trial. I will also assume we can agree that 1941 came before 1944. So here is a direct quote from Lieut.-Col. Macdonald: “In 1941, I attended a meeting called by Maj.-Gen. Victor Odlum of all 2nd Division officers at Brighton. He stated categorically that ‘the Canadians will take no prisoners’. Everyone accepted it. What did we know? We assumed those were the rules. We were never told anything else. Later, at Battle School, I taught everyone to go in with guns blazing. If something was booby-trapped then you pushed a German at it to try it out. Prisoners were never mentioned … Two officers of the Essex Scottish served under Major-General Vokes in Italy and had read Vokes’s bulletin stating: ‘We will take no prisoners”. Once the senior British commander, General Sir Oliver Leese, got wind of the affair he ordered all bulletins and evidence of them destroyed.” You say “after this happened”? And we’re not just talking about SS POWs.
I own a k98 Mauser that was found in a german foxhole in belgium 1944 by a Canadian soldier with the last name Inkpen who was from nova scotia I purchased it from his son, I have always been curious if this was possibly owned by a german soldier part of the 12th SS? The rifle is a 1943 BYF Oberndorf with a walnut stock that has a duffle cut made by Mr. Inkpen so he could bring it back to canada as a war trophy.
The victor gets to write the history... We all know. I have read about all kinds of atrocities committed by all sides in all wars. The so-called allies did some nasty things as well. War is a nasty business, been there.....
Do you have any sources for the allies doing similar to this? I haven’t come across any examples that can be proven without doubt (not saying it didn’t happen of course)
@@JoeLukes I’m not the arbitrator of wether an account is considered as definitive truth but I’d be really interested to read them. I’m not saying these things did not happen, just that I haven’t read accounts and I would like to 👍
@@thehistoryexplorer Then I would respectfully suggest you read ‘Meeting of Generals’ by Tony Foster. He is the son of the lead judge in Meyer’s trial, Major-General Harry Foster.
The battle for Authie-Buron was captured by an air-recce mission and there are 2 low-level Oblique photo-sets where you can see the German tanks skirting around Authie as they move North.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory on the first day of D-day there was very few Germans captured live, the allies were not choirboy, even in the brand of Brothers ,dick Winters in he book ,he said that they executed 12 German soldier ,the reason why ,he said that there wasn't anyone to take care of these soldiers ,and he couldn't spare any person to send them back to the POW Stockade, so that is a war crime , why wasn't dick Winters sent to prison,
My uncle was captured at normandy on the 7th of june,44.He was sent to dresden and excaped 3 days before the russians showed up.Its a rather long story,but he took his own life about a year after he came home to tennessee in 1946.Jessie clyde stover,corporal,U.S.Army.
@thehistoryexplorer Yes he did.My mom was his sister and he told her everything,since she was the only sister my five uncles had.They all fought in WW2.3 in Europe and 2 in the pacific.I have all of their service records,and the places and things they did were crazy.My uncle,Jessie Clyde stover,had to pull dead and burnt civilians out of the rubble.My mom said that is what send him over the edge.I know some stories he told mom happened to the german soldiers when the Russians showed up.Shirley D. Stover fought from north Africa thru italy,Howard stover was a chief aircraft engine mechanic on the enterprise aircraft carrier during WW2.James C.stover fought with the 91st infantry division from north Africa thru italy.Those two brothers were fighting at the same time in north Africa and italy.He retired a seargent major in 62.He rejoined the army and fought in korea earning a silver star,2 combat bronze stars with V.Made 2 combat jumps in korea with the 187th regimental combat team,11th airborne division.Went on to to become an advisor in Vietnam with the 1st special forces .Served with the 8th army in germany.503rd on Okinawa and ft Bragg N.C.He had a gorilla tattooed on his chest wearing a green army uniform,and helmet smoking a cigar!Charles roscoe stover served with the army during the new guinea and phillipines campaign,and returned home alive in 45.I served with the U.S. army and then tennessee army national guard as a M1A1 tank commander with the 3/278 armored calvary regiment.My service was from 83 to 94.
@JoeLukes HE said after they captured the camp along with the germans,they got drunk.Then,they ordered all the german soldiers to strip naked.Their was a dirt road that ran to and from the camp where they busted all of the glass vodka bottles.They made them run up and down the road naked on that broken glass.The ones that stopped running were shot.Their were other stories,but I am not going to repeat them.
Allegedly. Other than personal testimony there is not much evidence that I can see. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that all everyone refers to is Dresden etc
ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF COMMUNISTIAN JOURNALISTS , AGENTS OF THE NORTH VIETNAMESE & CHINA !!! THEY NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT THE 'STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES' OF THE N.V.A. & 'VIET CONG' WAS TO GO INTO A VILLAGE & START MURDERING PEOPLE, BASH A FEW WITH RIFLE BUTTS & THEN EVERYONE IS TERRORISED INTO SUBJECTION !!! THEN THEY DRAGGED AWAY THOSE WHO WERE FIT FOR MILITARY & LABOUR SLAVERY TO BE SENT INTO BATTLE TO CONQUER MORE OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S TERRITORY !!! THEY DID THIS IN THE 'RUSSIAN REVOLUTION', CHINA, NORTH KOREA & INDO- CHINA IN THE LATE 40's & 50's WHICH WAS DIVIDED INTO FOUR COUNTRIES, NORTH VIETNAM, SOUTH VIETNAM, CAMBODIA & LAOS & THEY DID IT IN THOSE COUNTRIES & AFRICA & THE MIDDLE EAST & CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA !!! THEY ARE COMMUNISTS (MARXISTS/ LENINISTS) !!! 'STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE' S.O.P.'s. THIS IS WHY THERE ARE FASCISTS WHICH IS WHAT THE COMMUNISTS CALL ANYONE WHO OPPOSES THEM, OR NAZIES !!!
This guy Meyer was involved in quite few prisoner incidents i'm led to believe. Although I'm curious as to why a couple of times you refer to him as "Panzer" Kurt Meyer? I believe he was acting Divisional commander, I've never had a grasp on German ranks, but Panzer isn't one of them
You are correct, he was involved in incidents around Dunkirk early on in the war. Panzer Meyer was his nickname - certainly not a rank. He was actually an astute tactical commander even if he was a murderous SOB
What's the difference? Both sides committed atrocities..the Americans were just allowed to get away with it..I know..my Grandfather was in the german army in Normandy.
The Die Deutsche Wochenschau no 719 footage at 11:24 to 11:48 is film of the actual attack on Authie/Buron on 7/6/44. As is 11:54 to 12:51. The still photos in this film bit are the tanks lost by 27 CAR at Franqueville which is just 1 km south of Authie. You can see The Abbeye d'Ardenne in the background behind the Canadian prisoners at 12:46 and it comes into view just as the RH POW walks out of frame at 12:50. The footage used here is low res but is much clearer on the original newsreel. You can just see it as a very light area with a dark smudge at the top in the gap between POW 2 and POW 3 (reading from right-hand 'as you look at it' POW No 1 )if you freeze at 12:51
My great uncle fought in one of General Patton's tank divisions. North Africa, Sicily, and Italy. Then, into France. In his last days before he passed away. He told us of the American soldiers shooting the SS soldiers right on the spot. Not unless an American officer stopped them from shooting the SS soldiers.
When you consider the repeated behaviour of the Waffen SS, it astonishes me that some reenactors choose to dress up as them, as if it's cool in some way.
War is war. You clearly have no idea what a real war is since the US has pussyfooted for the last 70 years of sending our youth to die for no reason. There are countless tales of humanity to prisoners by German soldiers. A German fighter pilot escorted a crippled B17 to safety - letting them live. There are also many documented cases of war crimes against all allied nations. Just a couple of examples: The Canadian army unit "The Loyal Edmonton Regiment" murdered German prisoners of war during the invasion of Sicily. Twenty-one German prisoners were taken placed against the wall, and shot without trial on the orders of the French Capitaine Marcel Dingeon. Let me remind you of US Army Lt William Calley in Viet Nam.
Old man ,mister thiebaud explained us how it was in 1944...he described us how was the rue d Authie in caen In 1944 july june He explained us There was many german soldiers bodies lying in many parts of this road....that was awfull.in 1944 you could find many gardens and small fields along the road...the road to the abbaye d ardennes...that was the war he said that s like that Now this man is dead but i remember all he explained us about this war.in 1990 i found a elite belt buckle at 14 rue d authie.that was amazing find ,i kept this. Very interesting video thanks
Its always mentioned that Meyers sentence was decreased multiple times but its rarely mentioned by whom and why...and there is a reason. The sentence was decreased because in the end of the day Canadian officers were concerned that by applying the same rules as they did for him, all of them would be found guilty of war crimes. Meyer was sentenced to death but the reviewing officer, Canadian Major General Volkes was concerned over the degree by which a commanding officer should be held responsible for the actions of his troops, Volkes said "there isn't a general or colonel on the Allied side that I know of who hasn't said, 'Well, this time we don't want any prisoners'"; indeed, he himself had ordered the shooting of two prisoners in 1943 before his divisional commander intervened Sentence was then commuted to Life Imprisonment, he went to a Canadian Prison and later a British Military Prison in Germany being released for good behaviour in 1954 The Canadians were themselves pretty infamous for POW executions and retaliations against German civilians in the last phase of the war much of it was hushed and removed from official history or simply ignored by "historians". During the fighting in Friesoythe Germany 1945, the battalion's commander of the Canadian 4th division was killed by a German soldier, but rumor spread he had been killed by a German civilian. Outraged, the division's commander, Major-General Christopher Vokes (yes the same who decreased Meyers sentence), ordered the town to be razed in retaliation . Twenty German civilians died in Friesoythe hiding in cellars s the town was systematically razed, with the Canadians forcing the civilian population to "evacuate" at bayonet and gunpoint, there are rumors of looting an even rapes as the Canadians were "fired up" by the death of their officer. Similar events occurred elsewhere in Germany as the Allies advanced in the closing weeks of the war. A few days earlier, the division had destroyed the centre of Sögel in another reprisal and also used the rubble to make the roads passable. Little official notice was taken of the incident and the Canadian Army official history glosses over it (i wonder why). It is covered in the regimental histories of the units involved and several accounts of the campaign. Forty years later, Vokes wrote in his autobiography that he had "no great remorse over the elimination of Friesoythe". nd there there are also German accounts of Canadians forcing POW into minefields to "clear" them, and the infamous case of a German POW used as a human shield in front of a Canadian afv.
Where is this account of the German POWs being used to clear minefields published. The human shield is a complete myth and been thoroughly debunked. You are literally spouting SS propaganda with that one.
@@DD-qw4fz Clearly you are unaware of the the difference between a defence, and having understanding. Question. Is there any record of these Canadian troops killing prisoners prior to the discovery that SS troops were killing Canadian PoWs? I think the answer to that is NO, but maybe you know better? Please advise! /
@@zen4men C. Vokes said to the Canadian High Commissioner in London when discussing Meyrs death sentence, "I told them of Sögel and Friesoythe and of the prisoners and civilians that my troops had killed in Italy and Northwest Europe". Vokes was in Command in Italy before coming to Normandy... He commuted Meyers sentence saying, "There isn't a general or colonel on the Allied side that I know of who hasn't said, 'Well, this time we don't want any prisoners'" "out of horses mouths" so to speak The truth is we have a very romantic view of the "greatest generation" and we wont be ale to look at ww2 without emotions and propaganda for at least 50 years minimum.
@@thehistoryexplorer yes everybody knows about this in the area, but not necessarly in détails. I really recognized the road and the tree line in the distance, it's close to Villers Bocage where Michael Wittman destroyed a whole armoured division with his lone tiger tank. History is still very alive in this area
I love how hard it is to find videos or evidence of the War crimes the Canadians committed. I have found some, over the years, as well as the war crimes committed by ameriKan soldiers. Brutal compared to what is always spouted about the 4 or 5 German War Crimes that are forever retold. Funny thing is that it seems the Brits didn’t commit these sorts of atrocities, and seem to have actually always treated their prisoners fairly.
You mention that the 12th SS Panzerdivision was made up of cadres from the 1st SS Panzerdivision, and only 3% older than 25 years, mainly the Officers and NCO's "and many of them appear to be hardened nazis"... i consider this a very weakening expression! These men came from the LSSAH Leibstandarte and most of them were in this unit well before the war, many of whom ran through nazi indoctrination schooling in special SS institutions. A large part being in the Leibstandarte well before it became a Panzerdivision. Nearly all of the surviving officers and NCO's sticking to the ideology until their death. So i'd consider all of them hardened Nazis. You also express a high degree of disgust about Kurt Meyer ("Panzermeyer") and his short time of imprisonment. I am 100% up to you on this matter, but there are several issues concerning the whole problem. As there had been shootings of POW's on the allied side too (the larger proportion on the US side i guess), the allied authorities had no interest in prosecuting the german atrocities too harsh, as they would face many charges themselfes... As i mentioned in another statement, SS Brigadeführer Fritz Witt ordered an investigation and a written report from Meyer after he got word of the shootings. This to my knowledge never materialised, as the events overtook the subject. Witt was KIA on the 14th of june by british naval artillery fire and the intense combat let the matter slip away... In my opinion it seems odd Meyer ordering the shooting of western allied POW's and this at his command post, where it can easily be linked to him. The guy was no idiot! I rather think the shooting was initiated by overeager youngsters, misled by the cock and bull storys of the Leibstandarte men, heard during training in Belgium,and the nazi propaganda which made peole other than german lesser than themseve... Especially the atrocities earlier in the field and towns were not ordered by the commanding officers. These were comitted at a lower level. And this is another point, which came into consideration by allied authorities: the youth and years of indoctrination of the 12th SS soldiers. And ther was a new, cold war going on allready which took into consideration the need of experienced soldiers...! In the West Point academy there is a painting in the stairway, showing an SS NCO in typi al amouflage smock. Considering the allies and the US in particular, had the SS and Waffen SS forbidden as a criminal organisation, tells an interesting contradiction...
@@thehistoryexplorer Kurt Meyer in his MEMORIES said that he had written proof that all those men killed. had orders from high command that " take no prisoners" to fasten up the INVASION. one of the Judges of that JUSTICE, was the General who gave the order to those men.
@@nestorruiz8857 The author of this video isn’t interested in facts that don’t fit the story as he wants to tell it. Please see my comment to him about 13 days ago, which he hasn’t bothered to acknowledge.
This Meyer character going free after 9 years is so typical of what happened afterwards. They made an example of a few and let the rest go. When they say never again they don’t mean it. Some of these old Nazi’s lived well into their 80’s and enjoyed the care of the state in their old age and stayed nasty for the rest of their days. Not all Germans were like that. Living under a dictatorship is quite limiting. More Germans were glad the war was over than people realise. Many never forget the starvation that set in in the 1940s but not everyone starved. If wanted a life saved or extra food you had to make good with some Nazi bureaucrat. People bartered ate potato peels, weeds and acorns to survive.
take a look at the Canadian film documentary on here, "The Valour and the Horror" The Allies were killing German POWs as soon as they had secured the beeches. (quote from the documentary ) while the German atrocities that were committed were prosecuted, reports of atrocities against the Germans were never pursued. the message seems clear, war crimes committed for a good cause are politically acceptable, perhaps regrettable, but such crimes are only prosecuted on the side that loses the war.
As I’ve said many times in these comments- I’m not saying one side adhered to the laws of war and the other did not. This video is purely about the Abbey Ardenne massacre
One sure way to make my grandfather furious was to ask him about the war. Durham light infantry Dunkirk to Normandy. Grandmother wasn't happy either. Doodlebugs . When the engine cut out.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 84 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs เมืองไทย"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3kuzsAIDf1c/mqdefault.jpg)
I was honoured to be there for the 79th anniversary this past June where I was able to lay a wreath during a ceremony. The wife(if I’m remembering correctly) of one of the men who found the graves of these Canadians still lived across the street from the Abbey. She was very old but invited us into her backyard and broke bread with us. It was an experience I’ll never forget. She and her family quite literally dedicated their entire lives to making sure the memory of these men were never forgotten. In French she said “when I’m gone, I hope that young people will still come here to honour these Canadians who died for the freedom of France.”
What a fantastic comment! Thank you for sharing my friend
Oh my, what a comment. It has brought me to tears. I am so grateful to that wonderful woman of France who deserves a special acknowledgement from our Government.
Sadly, they'll probably be accused of having white privilege and they'll advocate for their genetic replacement by other types of invaders.
French guy here.
I'm 56, so well aware of what happened here decades ago. I am teaching my kids ( 16 and 28 yo) regularly, on how our freedom 's price was very costly for the guys who crossed the Atlantic for liberating us.
Plus: i was born and raised in Dieppe, and tehn, take them with me, every 19th of August to the Canadian Cemetery, to pay a tribute to your fallen ones.
Merci. Votre sacrifice n'est pas oublié ici. Soyez-en surs.
@@MrSebfrench76 I love France 🇫🇷
My grandfather served in the 12th SS panzer division under Witt and Meyer. He was transferred to the 12th SS panzer division after a brief stint with the 2nd SS panzer division Das Reich. War is a tragedy.
There are no winners in war. That much is true
If you don’t mind my asking, when and where did he serve? I’ve always wanted to speak to a relative of a Wehrmacht veteran. I’m a complete history nut and especially like WWII history.
@@caseyynelmss He was born august 1923 in Fussen. He was a member of the Hitler youth from 1937. From there was enthusiastically encouraged to join the Weapon SS, which he did in 1942. He saw action in Normandy, Caen. The Falaise pocket and the Ardennes offensive where his war ended. He was wounded in the leg arm and face and was taken prisoner. (How he met my grandmother). His English rose how he put it. He died in 2006. He only spoke of it toward the end of his life. Always lying about the scar on his face that fascinated me as a child. I have his decorations, iron cross 2nd class, wound badges etc and photographs of him with his comrades in the division at various points and locations. I asked him about the terrible crimes. He admitted there were many, but he did not agree or participate in such things. He admitted to being fully indoctrinated by the regime, a believer. However he pointed out there were thousands of troops and within those thousands there were groups of individuals that had little to no moral standards and would commit atrocities that disgusted many of the troops and officers alike. Saying Fritz Witt a much admired commander, was furious when he heard of it, demanding a full and immediate investigation from Kurt Meyer. He told me that time of his life was both the best and worst times of his life and war is a tragedy.
@@Dairy917 I just watched this video and saw your comments. Twenty six minutes prior. Any male born in 1923 in a nation involved in WWII would have had to serve if healthy. However, Being born in Germany, or Russia. Raised you odds of being wounded or killed.
@@Dairy917
Thank you very much, and I’m sorry he passed. Always think it’s amazing to hear history from someone who either lived it or heard it from someone who did.
My Uncle Frank Dyke fought with the Canadians during the battle of Caen. I grew up in his house, so my brother and I were always asking for war stories. We got lots of good information, over the years about many aspects of France, Amsterdam,Belgian and Germany during the 1940’s. We didn’t get the gruesome stuff, but we got a really good understanding of the horrors of war. It was impressed upon us that it was much different than it was portrayed in books and film. I have good recollection of his stories of Caen, Carprique,Frank Dyke was a deeply religious man, the more I learn about the places he fought, the more I understand about what he saw and experienced. RIP Frank Dyke and all those young men.
That was really hard to watch. Those poor souls. This put a lump in my throat. Not an easy film to make but a story that has to be told. Thanks for putting it out here, I’m grateful. Cheers pal
I'm so glad you appreciate the video and my attempt to tell the story. Definitely not a nice one to research but I think it's a very important one. I really appreciate the feedback buddy
I’m sorry 😢 I’m not going 😅
This series has been so good. I've enjoyed every video. Well done Rob and thank you for sharing
Thanks man. Really appreciate the feedback. So glad you enjoyed the video
Excellent presentation- very moving. I appreciate the silent camera panning across the subject areas, without any annoying music, etc. Subscribed❗️🇺🇸
Absolutely ,my first time seeing one of your videos and I really appreciated the lack of loud unnecessary music.
Thankyou for a moving and informative film. Now subscribed.
This is a very well known part of Canada's ww2 history although very sad and tragic. Thanks for the video, very well done as usual. 🇨🇦
My Grandfather a WWII veteran himself. Told me a friend of his was one of The Canadian Soldiers Murdered at The Abbey of Ardenne. If Im correct I believe he said Kurt Meyer only got 5 years in Dorchester for this Atrocity. His friend was Reg Keeping a member of The North Nova Scotia Highlanders.
Meyer was tried in Canada
You are a credit to the memories of the fallen soldiers. As a Canadian, I am saddened and angry that this tragedy happened to our soldiers. I am sickened by the cold, calculated murder of defenceless captured men. It doesn’t matter which side is guilty of these crimes, it’s the ugly, side of humanity. We are capable of unspeakable evil.
as a American here the nazi ss murdered our boys at the battle of the bulge in winter 1944
@@stephenlewis2975And the millions we Americans have killed in the Middle East… for what? War is horrible.
@stephenlewis2975
The Americans did the same to German prisoners at Chenogne, also in the Bulge. The US 11th Armored Division troops massacred 80 German prisoners in cold blood. Very similar to the Malmedy massacre.
Chenogne was covered up and nobody was punished for it. Even Patton knew about it and helped to cover it up.
@@lyndoncmp5751 There you go, an example that the Allies were not without those who carried out executions to captured Wehrmacht. In WW1 the Canadians were so feared by the Germans that they tried to avoid having to face them in battle because of the reputation that we (Canadians) had done some terrible things that I won’t mention here. TH-cam has some videos that describe the brutality of some Canadian units in night raids where unsuspecting Germans were met with their extreme wrath. Yes, Canadians are polite, courteous people, but when they are called upon in military actions, something changes….
@@Mrkaycee7
Yes I heard that before particularly the WW1 part. In fact I've heard it used as a reason/excuse for SS reprisals on them in Normandy. 25 years is a long time to get your own back though, so not quite sure I believe that.
Cheers.
War crimes are war crimes. Wrong is wrong no matter the side or excuse. That said, I always find it interesting, to my knowledge, that no allied war crimes are ever talked about? Certainly to the degree German war crimes are. Victors really do write the history books.
Very true
One well talked about is Monte Cassino.
But I do not think many people know what a war crime is. A war crime is basically a purposeful killing innocents for no other reasons. Monte Cassino was bombed into oblivion, killing a thousand plus innocents, because the allies believed that German soldiers were located there. THe allies were wrong, it was a mistake, but not a war crime.
Compared to the industrial scale of german war crimes, there really isn't much to talk about on the Allied side, and this includes the Soviets, who did enact their revenge on Germany.
@@rb239rtr I do intend to visit Italy too.
@@rb239rtr I’m beginning to get it. When the Germans do it, it’s a war crime; when the Western Allies do it, it’s just a mistake and when the Soviet Allies do it, it’s (justified) revenge.
So anyway, the first charge brought by the Canadian Military Court against Meyer in the Abbey Ardenne case states:
“Committing A War Crime, in that he … , in violation of the laws and usages of war, incited and counselled troops under his command to deny quarter to Allied troops.”
How does that fit with your stated definition of war crime?
@@JoeLukes Joe, go to the UN and study up on what a war crime is.
Another very interesting and informative episode. Thank you very much, I really enjoy your channels content. I cant begin to imagine the hours of research you must do/ have done.
Thank you so much mate. Really appreciate the positive feedback
what a moving film, so well put together, thanks for all
the work involved in telling this story.
I want to thank you for naming each of the murdered Canadian soldiers because a lot of documentaries will say a few and then kind of blurry through the rest and I appreciate you taking the time to do that
Charles Portway was a British soldier from the Devon or Dorset regiment who found himself captured by a squad of 12th SS in the fighting of July 44 . He went on to describe how well he was treated and couldn't help thinking the germans would not have been treated so well if the situation had been reversed . War is Hell but it also throws up humanity from the strangest situations and sometimes from those you least expect it from.
Hey Rob, this was a really well put together video. Well done. I wait for the inevitible troll attacks from the usual suspects when this kind of content comes around!
Thank you buddy. Really appreciate it
Yep, because both sides embellish the stories. Like how the hell would anyone know they shook hands before being shot? Did one escape and tell the tale? I would like to hear that story as well. The victor will always be the first to make "History", its why most of the books written before the 90's or even now (As we have more documents and such today) were very hard to prove etc. and some of the 'Witnesses" like to tell white lies, all sides did this. If you think otherwise your pretty naive.
WHAT DO YOU CLASSIFY AS "THE USUAL SUSPECTS" ???
I BET GETTING YOUR FACTS RIGHT IS INCLUDED IN THESE "SUSPECTS" !!!
@@jeffsmith3173 the usual suspects can be quickly identified when you see the other channels they subscribe to and their previous comments which in some cases have been removed by TH-cam as violating community guidelines. Those usual suspects
Years ago I was told by a U.S. WWII veteran the allies did it as well. My father was U.S. Navy in WWII. It seems war vets are changed for life.
You forgot to mention, that there was an official order of the Canadian Army to take no prisoners. You could look this up in the war archives and in the reports on the process against Kurt Meyer in Canada (This order was the reasson why Kurt Meyer was not executed by the Canadians - but snd to jail). The men of the 12th SS Panzerdivision found the dead body a german Oberst (Colonel) named Luxemburg - he was bonded on a canadian Taank to serve as a human shield. The mentioned order and the fact that the found murdered german POWs was the reason why they executed these Canadians. A message was sent to the Canadian Army that they will continue to shoot canadian POWs until this mentioned order is revoked - which they finally did.
I’ve never read an account referring to any of what you live said. If you can provide the sources I’ll gladly read them as I’m always looking to learn more about this subject, but I’m afraid I haven’t seen accounts on this before
@user-ke8be8mf9t “Lies”? Here are direct quotes from two of Meyer’s trial judges, both high ranking Canadian army officers, which are clear admissions that killing German prisoners was common:
“I don’t believe Meyer pulled the trigger on his captives or gave orders to execute any of them. But I’m sure he knew what happened. SS discipline was such that he couldn’t help but know. But does that make him guilty of murder any more than I’m guilty for knowing about the German prisoners my troops killed?” (Major-General Foster)
and
“We all knew that our troops at various times were guilty of similar conduct. Whenever it happened we looked the other way. There was an intensity of relationship and affection for those among us who did the actual fighting. The sort of relationship that was unknown in peacetime … But the legal restraints under which we were placed allowed for no other verdict than guilty.” (Lieut.-Col. H.P. Bell-Irving)
@@JoeLukes Thank you !!! Finally the historical quotes ! My coments were all deleted ... I wonder by whom ???
Listen, I appreciate your efforts to educate the ignorant typical person these days. It is OBVIOUS that Germany( Nazi AND otherwise) is being deliberately slandered and falsely portrayed, especially in regards to any reports or statements concerning the Second World War and Adolf Hitler. After much study, the only possibility that qualifies universally to the variables is a concerted, disciplined, and indefinite effort by Jewish collective advancement groups/societies through many mediums including the news media, television, books, education systems, and cinema to defame, punish, delegitimize, and damage their economy. This is a pattern that has been in effect since 1933. Support was being sought and solicited before this, due to the racial ideas of a few Germans(scholarly and noteworthy) mostly in the late 1800s, It is important to admit that some of the ideas Hitler allowed to influence policy towards the Jewish people, but this was not prior to the initial aggression and attack of those Jewish collectives in 1933. Look up the headlines for the INITIAL antagonism between Nazi Germany and the Jewish RACE(ethnic).. The headlines read, THE JEWISH PEOPLE DECLARE WAR ON GERMANY. It was an internationally organized and administered economical boycott of any and all German produced goods, and they found international support here in the USA, which is pretty typical, and other countries and the economy was damaged as a result. I hate to confuse anyone that is just a clueless drone, but the actions taken by Hitler(Nazi Germany), including the acts of the Gestapo, were RETALIATORY. They let Jewish people come there and live, open businesses, influence culture, etc and while still using Germany(as it provided better circumstances than the Jews can do for themselves), they were trying to destroy the economy and take money, opportunity, and credibility away from Germany that it earned. The dirty secret and truth is that the Jews started it because they did not appreciate the pro-Aryan/anti-Jewish racial propaganda espoused and supported by certain political and media figures. Racist propaganda is neither illegal nor an act of war. It is the expression and/or attempt to advance an idea. Advancing an idea about the Jewish people was actually the stated main purpose for the foundation of the Jewish groups that started the economic boycott and subsequent blockades and sanctions imposed on Germany. Remember when the war started(hint:it was AFTER 1933) then consider the date that Jews declared war on Germany and its people(1933)Make sure to consider the time frames for the official(government approved/ordered) policing and boycotts of Jews by the Nazj party and those supporters of it.
@JoeLukes; @stephankurz892
You said there was an 'official' Canadian Army order to kill prisoners. That is simply not true. You quoted Lt. Col. H.P. Bell-Irving as saying he knew Canadian troops were guilty of similar conduct, but that is not an admission of 'official' Canadian Army policy.
It was never 'official' Canadian Army policy to murder prisoners after capture.
However it WAS official policy of the Waffen SS to murder prisoners, including captured soldiers and civilians.
(Google: "SANITIZATION OF WAFFEN SS WW2 CRIMES: A DISSERVICE TO THE MEMORY OF THOSE CANADIAN SOLDIERS WHO WERE VICTIMIZED" by David Pugliese, published 23 Nov. 2022 in esprit de corps magazine and available online).
Tragic story and very emotional to watch. Thank you posting this doing a walkthrough honoring these brave souls like you did ❤
Canadian Regimental notes usually do not mention what happened to Waffen SS prisoners??
In ww1 or 2 ?
WW2@@TheYeti308
WW1, well that's a bigger issue! WW2 there are Canuck Units that simply gloss over the prisoner taking stuff!
They were moving forward no facilities for taking prisoners so they shot them the Germans however took them prisoner snd then after a bit of torture killed them not always with a bullet
@@jasonsweet1868 Where is the evidence for torture ? Sound like war propaganda to me ...
A really well presented story of the worst kind . Truly sad but they live on due to. People like yourself and your crew thank you excellent work.⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you so much. That comment means the world to me
Thanks for reminding us, lest we forget.
Since you have reminded us of this part of the story, maybe you should do a 2nd part, wherein you go into detail just how & why Meyer's conviction got overturned, and why he was released early.
As the cold war was starting up, Meyer was released early to become a consultant to the Canadian Army, as he had first hand experience with Soviet tank tactics
Great video man, I love the canadian coverage 2, not much of it out there my grandfather was with C squadron Fort Garry Horse
Thank you buddy. I really wanted to cover their amazing stories. I've got one more Canadian video coming up on the Worthington Force
@@thehistoryexplorerlooking forward 2 it, my grandfather was with C squadron Fort Garry Horse, its kinda confusing 2 me to try to read about all thier movements on the maps and whatnot, again great vids man👍
At 12:52 there's a clip of Canadian prisoners that appears to be from Italy. There's an officer who is clearly PPCLI and the ORs appear to be from the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment (although it's hard to read their shoulder flashes). The PPCLI (my old regiment) and Hasty P's were in the First Division and fought in Italy from 1943 to 1945. They would not have been in Normandy.
The PPCLI flash sparked my curiosity as well, as they indeed famously fought in Italy. I recognized the other flashes were definitely Royal Winnipeg Rifles immediately, as I inherited some from my uncle, who was at Nomandy. As the Italian campaign was already well underway, could the PPCLI man have been "seconded" to 3rd Div to share battlefield experience ? In any case, a good observation !
Yes, good observation, but doesn’t that look like a 3rd Canadian Infantry Division patch below the PPCLI? It was a light blue as opposed to the 1st’s red patch. I’m inclined to agree with the other commenter that the soldier has been “seconded” to the 3rd in some capacity. Also, the terrain and foliage in the background doesn’t look too Italian, but that point would be hard to prove, admittedly. I looked at the original German newsreel where the footage comes from. To me those scenes all looks like it is from Normandy, but, as we know, the newsreel creators on both sides were want to take extensive liberties to make their point.
All the POWs SCENES are from Die Deutsche Wochenschau 719 which fist played 16/6/44 and was the first German footage from Normandy. If you watch the original there are several views of NNSH POWs. It is Normandy.
Great video and presentation. Very professional. I’ve subscribed. Thanks for your efforts in describing this affront to our Canadian soldiers.
My grandfather and 2 great uncles fought in Normandy with the queens own rifles of Canada.
It's hard to take Canada seriously after the WHITE HELMETS and SS HUNKA episodes of pure nazzee celebration....
Again thank you for more details about this area and the war. I was just there 2months ago, continuing with my documentary. My grandfather as I mentioned before actually was in the engineers company that was following these infantry men. One of the two Canadians you mentioned who were wounded and added to the prisoners- I know now one came for sure from Buron. I have a testimony from a local there. So sad for both sides of this war. Im so grateful my grandfather survived. He was in this war for a total of 34 months. Amazing to me that he even survived at all. He was also Métis. I think Doucette you showed us of Métis origin. Its a prayer bag that is left on his grave.😊
Thank you for this informative and well researched post.
Thank you for your effort to make this
The video mentioned the Canadians were advancing to take Caen. One month later on 7 July, the controversial RAF carpet-bombing of Caen was done. The bombing was considered tactically foolish and considered by many to be a war crime. The result was 80% of the city was destroyed with 3000 civilians dead. The tactically foolishness was the rubble from the bombing afforded many German defensive positions, sniper positions along with blocked streets preventing the use of the British and Canadian tanks
Yes very true. The deaths of French civilians is a blight on the allied invasion in my opinion as in many cases it could have been avoided
The unfortunate reality still is & always has been, is that there are no rules or laws in total warfare, except ‘kill or be killed!’
But, if as an engaged combatant, your surrender has been accepted, then the military authority accepting you or other PoWs surrender, are hence charged & compelled to comply with international treaties requiring these military authorities to deal with any such PoWs, humanely & in accordance with the Geneva Conventions on the rights, obligations, entitlements & treatments of PoW to & by all parties involved, then & thereafter, & until the formal end of existing hostilities between all warring parties concerned has been agreed & established!
I was astonished when seated in a cafe in Caen the day after 9/11 to hear an inhabitant of Caen go nuts about what the Allies did to Caen during the war and applauding the attack on the twin towers. As a visitor to France I did not approach the lady to ask about her patent anger all those years later
Superb piece, including the varied and very respectful comments.
Thank you for the kind feedback 👍
This occurred after the hill 102 massacre where panzer lehr officers were shot and some tied to the vehicles as POW by “inns of court” after which they drove past the 12th ss front lines and ending up being shot to pieces. One can imagine how this was perceived by the soldiers that shot at their own. Even the Allies didn’t take prisoners,..general Maxwell Taylor 101st gave orders not to take prisoners during the Normandy invasion, but as Napoleon stated victor writes history.
I’ve never read about that. Can you provide a link please? Sounds terrible
@@thehistoryexplorer I provided you with references for the ‘inns of court’ incident over two weeks ago under the comment by stephankurz892. It’s also mentioned in ‘Grenadiers’, which you claim to have read and which you list as a reference for this video.
Napoleon lost and he wrote a history , which would seem to disproves both his and your point .
@@iroscoe , even losers can write their history too it seems. I am sure that such terrible events happened a lot at the end of the war in all sides.
There is no hard evidence of general taylor giving this order. This would have been an illegal order, either way. No subordinate officer would be obligated to follow this order. Even if it was true, the rumor stated he hinted at not taken prisoners, there was nothing explicit in what he said. Orders have to be explicit.
Just found your channel. So many interesting stories. Also, very well done. May all these soldiers RIP.
So glad you found us! Thank you very much and I hope you enjoy the videos
I love these tactics presentations!
Glad you like them! I think I should do more stuff using my military experience and training rather than just historical accounts
I'm new to your channel. Found this episode very moving. Look forward to the next one
Welcome aboard! Thanks for the feedback and I hope you enjoy the channel
Thanks for the deep dive into the story of the unfortunate Canadians murdered by the SS. Like every other amateur history student I'd heard the terrible story many times as it comes up in every account of the Ardennes offensive; but never seen the actual locations and even the structures where the incidents occurred.
Your account is just as good as anything on history or Military channel.
Thank you very much. Although the Abbey is called Abbey Ardennes it actually doesn’t have anything to do with the Ardennes offensive which occurred in Belgium and across the German border. I’m so glad you enjoyed the video 👍
Great video, very moving and informative. I also admire your patience in dealing with the whataboutism comments by your critics. There is an excellent book on this subject by an historian named Margolian entitled Conduct Unbecoming.
I’ve read it! Great book. Thank you for the very kind comment
Heard of some of these war crimes, but probably not to this depth. Thanks for putting this together. Atrocities of war should always be remembered. I noticed the date of these was June 7, 1944, which was the day after D-Day. It doesn't justify what happened, but I couldn't help but to think, that the 12th SS commander was probably so pissed off at what was happening from the day before, that this was probably a response to how he felt at the time. It makes me believe that he probably felt the reality of...this was the beginning of the end for the Third Reich. You hear of atrocities like this and Mai Lai in Vietnam and it really makes you think of the reality of war, and what effect it can have on the soldiers. War is terrible enough just fighting each other, but a necessary evil when evil governments try and make everyone else in the world conform to their way of governing and thinking. It's also sad to think what was sacrificed in the name of stopping the Nazi's, and yet today we still see people subscribing to their ideals, and boldly protesting for it. Thanks for posting. Cheers!!
Thank you so much buddy. I know exactly what you mean, equally the 12th SS had suffered heavy losses from air attacks themselves and claimed they were also retaliating for allied bombing of Germany. You can never justify their actions though. I really appreciate your comment 👍
Unit history records no such heavy losses during the march to Normandy.
They lost no armoured vehicles, no heavy equipment, artillery guns flak guns etc. Yes they did loose some trucks and light personnel losses.
Can you please elaborate on these heavy losses???
Unit history does mention and there are photos of a French civilian bus that was strafed caught fire and the passengers burnt to death. Unfortunate casualties of war which no doubt they didn't want.
@@thehistoryexplorer Most of these kids grew up with families and neighbors being killed and neighborhoods being reduced to rubble by allied bombing. That experience would actually be a rather natural and obvious motivator for anyone regardless of nationality, so why would you question it? Two wrongs don't make a right, so I agree it doesn’t justify what they did, but this particular context shouldn't be ignored or minimized.
I got to visit Normandy a few years back and I would urge all who can make the trip to do so. It's amazing to see first-hand where this history unfolded and so many sacrificed all. There are many good museums and displays scattered all over the area. If you visit, try to stay at least three days and book a tour on a day.
There are very few people who would not enjoy a trip to Normandy! Beautiful place
I've heard about this before but it's good to get the full picture very interesting but of course very uncomfortable to have to think about.
An excellent documentary and presentation. Thank you!
Plenty of SS defenders on here.
So what was the justification of the massacre of British and French soldiers by the SS, at Wormhout in 1940?
What about the german oiaw thatvwere jilled by the english atvdubkirj?
Thank you for sharing !
Both sides murdered surrendered soldiers. I’ve heard horrible stories of murdering surrendering Germans from American veterans while growing up in the 60s and 70s. Everyone always said it was revenge. Both sides committed war crimes of equal violence. I wish I documented these stories as a young man.
Thanks for sharing
True if you are on any mission ,you can't be saddled down with prisoners.
I have studied WW2 on and off since I was a kid.(1964) First time I heard of this. I will go to my grave learning more new things about this milestone human event called World War Two.
Thanks Bill, I hope you enjoyed the video and managed to take something from it
Someone once said that charging combat soldiers with war crimes against the enemy was like handing out speeding tickets at a car race.
Possibly
Well I can't speak for soldiers in Normandy, but when I was in the British Army it was made very clear what constituted 'illegal' action against enemy soldiers and the implications you might face if you didn't follow military law. A very pertinent point (given this video's subject) was 'if you take a prisoner, it is your responsibility to see they are not mistreated and are escorted safely to the rear as POWs'. @@thehistoryexplorer
@@faeembrugh exactly. Well said
I think a civilisation is judged by the way it treats its helpless. Germany made a great deal of its 'civilisation' and 'culture'. Yes, all armies have potential to commit war crimes, but the Germans in general and SS in particular were up to their necks in it. Of course, officers set the tone. Mohnke seems to have been the worst in 12th SS. should bear in mind the 12 SS was around 17000 strong so clearly not everyone was a murderer.
Hope you make More this kind of war video history like this, so everyone can learn on this
You only hear about the SS units doing it, but they certainly weren’t there only ones. Even less you never hear about the Allies killing prisoners, but it was certainly done.
I see what you're saying, but this video is about the Abbey Ardenne incident.
All of the non-cadre (easter volunteers) defending the normally beaches taken prisoner were forced onto Murmansk bound ships where they were executed upon arrival. That is why there are so few memoirs from the axis defenders in the Stationary units except for the ethnic German Cadre (experienced soldiers w/ heald wounds that limited their mobility)
I had an Uncle that shot SS every sunset at Dachau on orders none other then General Eisenhower. Each surrendering German military personal were ordered to strip off their tunics and under shirts. With raised arms Regular Army went in one direction ( safe treatment) those with SS lighting bolts that were tattooed under their arms by the arm pit were put into execution line. Seems the SS tattooed every man so they could be identified if they deserted to by shot in front of their SS peers. The US troops were ordered to feed them a class A hot field meal. At sunset they were marched to the bottom of a low hill and lined up in a straight line in front of a Sherman tank with a .30 caliber machine gun and a brand new full belt of ammo. A US Corporal would walk down the line and offer a last cigarette to each man and provided a light. As the last man tossed his cigarette the highest ranking SS men about to be executed would click his heels an Salute a Heil Hitler. To the man every SS man to be executed responded in kind. My Uncle was a tank Sargent and he was the one on the Browning .30 caliber machine gun. He had been the Tank platoon commander of 4 tanks. They were the first to pull up and liberate Dachau. He was ordered to guard the concentration camp prisoners to prevent the Germans from returning to finish the job. He absolutely hated every SS man he saw.
He stated Eisenhower ordered this be done, because the US knew it would have to help setup a form of Government in Germany at the end of the war. Eisenhower quote” did not want any fanatical SS to be in any power of authority in the new German government” his solution was executing these men.
I care very much about him as a man, but feel each one of them should have been tried. At that point of the war he was so filled with hate of what he saw, he was easily ordered to do this. No excuses, but he said if anyone was going to be tried for shooting prisoners it would be him. That’s why he did it daily. He did not allow anyone else to do it it maliciously treat the SS prisoners. He said it did bother him to treat them humanly , but was also order to do so. Seriously he hated what he saw at Dachau. I know I will get vile responses , but facts are facts. One last thing. Eisenhower ordered SS everyone of them to be executed thru out Germany. No where do you read about this that I know of.
@@MikeJMarine It is known (or should be) that US troops murdered German POWs at Dachau. Naturally the usual excuses are given and no one was ever held accountable. However, the part of your story about the Waffen-SS tattoos is not factual. These tattoos were actually the individual’s blood group, the purpose of which should be obvious in combat conditions. Regular Wehrmacht soldiers had their blood groups stamped on their ID tags.
@@daedra5651 The murdered soldiers referred to were not camp guards, but just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time; nor was Dachau an extermination camp, as you seem to believe.
As an American, I'm humbled by the way the French, Belgians, Dutch, British and so many other European countries have honored us with these immaculately kept cemeteries and memorials to the Allies that died fighting for them. We never see them in disrepair or vandalized. We thank you from the depths of our hearts and souls.
When we talk about warcrimes i only mention "Rheinwiesen"!My Grandpa was held as a PoW there and they where only surviving eating gras and chewing leather because the Americans gave them not even the minimum of things they needed to survive!Lukily he survived but was a shadow of himself(around 50 kg) and severe psychic trauma!He was a vehicle maintenance mechanic,no combat unit!Despite this,he later worked for the US armed forces as civil mechanic!He forgave,but never forgot!
What did the SS units give to their victims?
@@thehistoryexplorer Oh i see!What i wrote not important because they were german PoWs,right?Because your answer implicates that that was a good thing and the the suffering was not that much!Your remarks trying to implcate that because the SS Units did murder the canadian soldiers its not important what the US did to non combatant soldiers and other german PoWs!That sound very hypocritical!Dont you think??And Warcrime is warcrime,is it murder or treating PoW inhuman!But hey!With this comment you made yourself untrustworthy about your so called documentaries!And shows where you stand!FO🤮And giving yourself a heart to your comment makes it more pathetic!
@@williwass6837 You are right. This is not a balanced documentary, nor is it well-researched as I have tried to point out in some of my comments. The result is that it does more to incite, rather than to inform. Eighty years after the fact we should be able to review incidents like this within the proper overall historical context, not in isolation, and without vilifying one side while continuing to pretend the other side was completely innocent because its crimes were never investigated or prosecuted.
the post- May 1945 prisoner camps were closed in September 1945, with most prisoners sent home. Only a few were held for war crimes.
What else was happening in 1945? Oh yes, millions of refugees, road and rail infrastructure destroyed thoughout europe, starving people in France, Holland, Germany. Farmers displaced by fighting, no food reserves. It was the Allied armies that fed western europe for a year or two, until the countries could get back on their feet.
@@rb239rtr Yeah,the samaritans!And by the way,dont say "The Allies"Say the "WESTERN ALLIES",because russia did shit!And if you dont get it ,we talk about warcrimes!Which the Rheinwiesen were!We are not talking about average things that happen!
Interesting/informative/entertaining. Excellent still/motion photography/maps. Enabling viewers to better understand what the orator was describing. Once the allies had a permanent foot hold on Normandy. With severe military supply shortages. Russians purging German military forces westward. The war was quickly becoming a strain on what military forces and supplies were available for the disillusioned Berlin leadership to disperse.
Thank you very much, I’m glad you appreciate the explanations. In my attempt to improve the channel I’ll find ways to animate those areas and make it look more professional
War is terrible to both sides.
The video states 12 SS suffered heavy lossed due to Allied air attacks while moving up to the front. But the divisional history does not reflect this, they lost no armoured vehicles or heavy equipment, some trucks perhaps.
It states 12th SS shot prisoners late in the day of June 7. Lets not forget Allied soldiers began shooting German prisoners shortly after midnight on June 6 and there are 4 documented cases of Allied soldiers including Canadians killing prisoners on June 6. Usual excuse is they didn't have the facilities to care for them.
On the morning of June 7 the British Innes of Court reconnaissance unit captured 13 German prisoners from Panzer Lehr division, tied an Oberst to the turret of the lead tank shot the other 12 in the head. The dead bodies were found by soldiers of Hitlerjugend. So they knew what they were up against. The Allies were not taking prisoners.
Video states in Authie the Germans dragged wounded into the streets and drove over them with tanks?? The units involved were panzer company 6 and 3rd battalion SS panzer grenadier rgt 25. Unit history states the tanks did NOT enter the town due to heavy anti tank gun fire. The commanders of both these units survived the war why were they not prosecuted. German medic Paul Hinsburger who was there on the day states we treayed the wounded of both sides.
Video states Kurt Meyer fled the Abbey Ardennes leaving behind a bottle of champagne and a bowl of cherries, which the Canadians enjoyed??? Really!!! Kurt Meyer left the Abbey on 14 June when he was promoted to divisional commander, the Abbey was captured on July 8.
Did 12 SS shoot prisoners, yes they did. Video fails to mention that when divisional command became aware of what was happening on June 11 chief of staff SS Sturmbahnfuhrer Hubert Meyer issued strict instructions that all prisoners were to be treated according to the Geneva Convention.
I was waiting for the ‘what about’ trolls to come along 👍 the sources I used are as follows:
Sources:
[Ardenne Abbey massacre - Wikipedia]
[Abbaye d’Ardenne - Veterans Affairs Canada]
[12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend - Wikipedia]
[(PDF) Kurt Meyer on Trial: A Documentary Record]
[D-Day veteran’s harrowing tale of advancing deep behind Nazi lines - TH-cam]
[WarHistoryOnline - The Ardenne Abbey Massacre]
[The 1942 Dieppe Raid - Veterans Affairs Canada]
[WarMuseum.ca - A Chronology of Canadian Military History - Canada at D-Day, 1944]
[Grenadiers: The Story of Waffen SS General Kurt “Panzer” Meyer]
[The 12th SS by Hubert Meyer]
[World War II: 12th SS Hitlerjugend Panzer Division Fought in Normandy]
[Guerres et violences à l’abbaye d’Ardenne]
So I,m apparently a troll.
Was there any part of my statement that was incorrect or misleading.
Or are you just annoyed that someone had a different opinion than yourself.
@@frankvandergoes298 you are not the person who was trolling Frank. Have a brilliant week and very happy Christmas
@@thehistoryexplorer He is a troll. He has come after me. I told him is spouting myths and nonsense but just keeps doing it. He's clearly a fan of the 12th SS.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory Yes we will absolutely question you when you sprout nonsense, tell the whole story not just one sided narrow minded jargon to fanboys.
“Sit back, relax”. This is not a sit back, relax video. This is a heartbreaking video and be prepared from the very beginning. Sit back and say thank you to God for these wonderful fighting men.
Ok, yes I can see how that would seem insensitive
This really got me, those poor young men 😔
If you get to Normandy it’s definitely somewhere to visit
Thanks for the perspective.
I keep understanding more and more why the veterans had no mercy on the ss soldiers on their advance into Germany . My uncle never talked about the war and wore his battle face until his death at 93.
I had the honour (pleasure certainly not the correct word) of visiting the Abbey Ardenne back in 2016. Even after being at Beaumont-Hamel and Dieppe earlier in the trip, this place had the eeriest, heaviest feeling of " *something* having happened here."
I completely agree. It’s a strange place to visit knowing what had happened, it doesn’t feel particularly restful or welcoming
Am I to understand that 156 Canadian soldiers were killed in captivity by the 12SS and this video covers 20 of them or did I read that wrong? Is the tank reversing over dead/wounded included somewhere in the numbers?
156 Canadian POWs we’re murdered while in captivity by the Germans. Yes I believe the soldiers who had surrendered and were then killed on Authie are included in this total.
The account I read said there were two Canadians who were run over by German tanks, but over 20 in total were killed in Authie. Another 20 at the Abbey Ardenne
Superb portrayal, of the brave young men and women, who went before us. They fought and died, for the freedoms we have today, and hopefully will continue to keep! Thank you for your hard work, putting this all together.
"Oh Canada," your sorrow is unspeakable. Your heart cries for the loss of your young sons, sent here to fight and die for France and wrest Freedom from tyranny...so young were their dreams.
The Canadians were volunteers. They went there to stop a tyrant
Yup, can you image some 20 year old from Summerside PEI caught up in the middle of this and thinking about lobster dinners at his church in August. Unreal and so unnecessary. War is H☆ LL .......
@@thehistoryexplorer I’ve had the privilege of knowing many Canadian veterans - work colleagues, extended family and acquaintances. Not one ever claimed that they enlisted to “stop a tyrant”, at least not to me. But they generally believed what the recruiters and the media told them. Despite that, adventure, lack of job opportunities, the promise of a free university education, or to support “the old country” (Britain) were the main motivators, I was told.
I heard about this 2 years ago and I was absolutely in shock with the brutality of this massacre. And was shocked when I realized this isn't a widely known chapter of ww2 and it boggles my mind to think if something like this can go so long without being really talked about, what else don't we know about the brutal tactics of that war. Loved the video all the way through. Especially showing respect to each soldier. Thank you for this!
I suspect another thing you didn’t know is that two of the Canadian judges at Meyer’s trial, both field commanders, have admitted that it was not unusual for their men to commit the same crimes.
@JoeLukes I suspect you think I'm one sided person? My answer is no. I've studied also war crimes on Nazi and Japanese soldiers. So please don't think everyone is so naive. Thanks.
@@jtmckinney Please be assured that my comment was not directed at you personally or meant to be judgmental in any way. I was simply trying to point out an even less “widely known chapter of ww2” relative to the subject. But if you were already aware of it, then you should also know that the war crimes admitted to by the Canadian judges were against German soldiers, not Nazis.
@JoeLukes no no. No harm or anything toward you. If I'm wrong tell me, that's how I learn. History is written by the Victor's unfortunately. But I promise you I'm not upset or anything, just I've dealt with WAY too many people who are one sided. But I suspect the reason the world didn't go after them was because of all the misdeeds when the allies found the concentration camps. But also I don't think people know the alot of the officers didn't agree with Hitler. Even the famed "Desert Fox" or Rommel, sorry if I spelled the name wrong, but he was open about not how he didn't agree with the higher ups. But Hitler made him commit suicide so his family would be spared. But I always love talking about things so sorry if my first response But I've studied every conflict and some ain't even American or German. All it ever reminds me of "War is hell".
With all due respect, you are being untruthful or at least careless when you state that Meyer ordered the killings at the Abbey (15:50). The Canadian Military Court acquitted him of having given such an order, but held him responsible for the deaths. You also mention he was charged with the deaths of 23 Canadian POWs at Buron and Authie, but fail to mention that he was acquitted of that charge as well.
With regards to the Abbey killings it should be mentioned that two of the trial judges, Major-General Foster and Lieut.-Col. H.P. Bell-Irving (who had been field commanders), expressed clear doubts about the verdict:
“I don’t believe Meyer pulled the trigger on his captives or gave orders to execute any of them. But I’m sure he knew what happened. SS discipline was such that he couldn’t help but know. But does that make him guilty of murder any more than I’m guilty for knowing about the German prisoners my troops killed?” (Foster)
and
“We all knew that our troops at various times were guilty of similar conduct. Whenever it happened we looked the other way. There was an intensity of relationship and affection for those among us who did the actual fighting. The sort of relationship that was unknown in peacetime … But the legal restraints under which we were placed allowed for no other verdict than guilty.” (Bell-Irving)
Meyer was also not commander of the 12th SS PzDiv on June 7, as you state (5:00), but commander of the 25th PzGrRgt. He became the divisional commander on June 16, which also puts to question the veracity of your anecdote about leaving champagne and cherries behind in his hurry to escape, since he had already been gone from the Abbey for 3 weeks when it was finally captured.
His soldiers gave evidence to say they were ordered not to take prisoners. That’s pretty damning
@@thehistoryexplorer Damning? So why did the judges not believe them? Seems like you’re willing to accept the court’s decisions only when they fit your preferred narrative.
The abbey was Meyer's HQ at the time of the killings. If he wasn't aware than he was a terrible commander with no control over his troops.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory Ok, we already knew it was Meyer’s HQ and that the court ruled that he was aware. But since you addressed your comment to me specifically, did I say anything that you disagree with?
@JoeLukes If there are so many problems with this video, and you are so determined to point out all of the inaccuracies, why don't you create a video that is so correct that no one can dispute anything you say in the video?
I just finished reading the autobiography of a young German solider who served in the infantry on the Eastern Front. He mentioned his youngest brother being forcibly recruited to the 12th SS at age 17 just before D-Day. He had no interest in the Nazi party or the war in general at that point. Sad that many ended up witnesses to and even unwilling participants in war crimes like this.
Very sad indeed. War is hell
Never forgive , never forget, god bless Canada, heroes all , rip lads .
A very harrowing story. Great presentation.
This was difficult to watch but well-researched. To the murdered Canadian soldiers I say RIP gentlemen thank you for your service to all of our nations.
Meyer was released for the sake of political expediency;those murders occurred on HIS watch,HE is responsible.
Thank you very much for your feedback
Yes, whether he knew of them or not is irrelevant...Command responsibility.
At 12:17 the Canadian tank losses are give as 21+ 7 making a total of 28. This is a common error because that is the number given in the War Diary of the Canadian Infantry Regiment who should not be used as a source for a Tank Regiments losses. If we consult the War Diary for 27 CAR we find they wrote off 15 tanks. 12th SS lost 12 Pz IV. This is the number of tanks that were total losses. We do not know how many tanks of either side were damaged. Thus the Canadians lost 15 tanks and the Germans lost 12 Pz IV . More or less even.
Thanks for the additional context. Much appreciated
Meyer Died in 1961! He was a good officer and soldier!
Hitler stated: We are called Barbarians, but never forget that being a barbarian is an honorable title. Meyer was part of the German military elite of the Second World War.
Do you think it’s acceptable to murder prisoners of war?
Ok, but bullies are insecure, and Hitler and the rest were the same. In Downfall, just before he left the Bunker with Magda Goebbels to blow their brains out, he said to an adjutant, " You elected us." What a coward, all cowards in the end, only maybe Speer had remorse.
Thank you very, *very much* for making this video honouring the courage and sacrifice of our fallen soldiers. As a Canadian myself, I was aghast when I learned in history class that Kurt Mayer's sentence was initially commuted, then drastically reduced to a mere nine years.
No matter which of his "soldiers" (and I use that term *very* loosely, of course) actually carried out these heinous executions, a commander is *always* responsible for the conduct of his men, both in war and at peace. He should have faced the gallows for executing so many innocent prisoners, instead of getting off easily with a nine year sentence. By any reasonal definition, this was nothing less than a gross miscarriage of justice!
Is it really any wonder why we as Canadians stand so firmly behind the concept of, "Never again?"
I completely agree with you. Thanks for the comment and watch this space for much more content coming from Normandy
As a Canadian you should also be aghast at what your history class hid from you. Namely that Canadian soldiers committed similar crimes, as admitted by two of the trial judges, as well as the prosecutor, who were also commanders responsible for the conduct of their men. But none of these were ever investigated, much less tried, which is also a gross miscarriage of justice! The concept of "Never again" is just a bad joke under such hypocrisy.
@@thehistoryexplorer Thank you, and I'll definitely be watching for more. There's one particular story my father told me about Canadian troops in Normandy; it may be apocryphal or it may be true, but all I know for sure is that my father worked with the man who told him about it.
There was a regiment from Quebec's North Shore region who liberated a farmhouse that had been occupied by an element of the 12th SS Panzer Division, and what they saw there enraged them. We're talking about some pretty graphic stuff here, but suffice to say that the French Canadian soldiers were in no mood to take any prisoners.
Not far from the farmhouse, they managed to pin down some of the the Germans responsible for the atrocities in a ditch beside a road. They got on the radio and called up a squad of Canadian tanks, and the tankers rolled forward with one track on the road and one in the ditch. Anybody who ran for it was brought down by a withering hail of gunfire; anyone who didn't run got ground up by the tank tracks.
Given the fact that they were Mayer's boys, I'd say they had it coming.😉
@@That70sGuitarist Whether the “story” is true or not, you seem to be fine with a pretty low standard of conduct by the side you’re cheering for. Unfortunately the same argument could be made with equal legitimacy for “Meyer’s boys” (I corrected the spelling for you) killing the Canadians. Most grew up with families and friends being killed or maimed and neighborhoods being reduced to rubble by allied bombing, which experience would also seem to be a rather obvious motivator for revenge.
@@JoeLukes Whether you'd care to admit it or not, there is a vast difference between the deliberate, cold-blooded execution of unarmed prisoners of war (who, having surrendered, have legally become "noncombatants" under the terms of the Geneva Convention) and killing armed Waffen SS troops without mercy.
As for having seen their cities destroyed or their families killed by Allied bombers, I would refer you to the words of one Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris, who said, "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
Had the Allies somehow managed to lose the war, there can be no room for doubt that Arthur Harris would have gone down in history as one of the greatest war criminals ever. The firebombing of Dresden alone would have been enough to seal his fate, and rightly so.
The horrible fact of the matter is that there were *untold thousands* of war crimes committed by Allied servicemen against Axis combatants and civilians, yet they were virtually all "swept under the rug," after the war ended by a world that simply wanted to put the war behind them and get on with the business of living. For example, did Allied tank crews and artillery troops routinely use white phosphorous shells against Axis personnel? Damned right, they did! During the Battle Of Britain/the Blitz, did RAF fighter pilots deliberately target clearly marked (big red crosses) unarmed German air-sea rescue aircraft? Absolutely!
Were any of them ever charged with war crimes as a result? Nope, not a damned one!
War brings out the absolute worst in human beings. Though the Allies' conduct was often seriously tainted (not least of which by their alliance with the evil, murderous villain, Stalin) their cause, ultimately, was still a *just cause.* For the sake of humanity itself, the Axis had to be defeated *at all costs,* and so they were.
So no, I'm not "cheering" for either side. As a youth, I trained and prepared for a war that (so far, at least) never happened, and if I had my way, every single Allied war crime would have been punished too. That they weren't even tried was (and still *is* ) a literal travesty, but the world got "victor's justice," then moved on.
I am a Canadian Army veteran. After this happened, the Canadian Division took few if any SS Prisoners of War. They became known as the "Murder Division". Some official complaints were made, but the Canadians either ignored them, or they were "lost in a paperwork shuffle" Live by the Sword and Die by the Sword.
I will assume you know, as a Canadian Army veteran, that Lieut.-Col. Bruce Macdonald was the chief prosecutor at Meyer’s trial. I will also assume we can agree that 1941 came before 1944. So here is a direct quote from Lieut.-Col. Macdonald:
“In 1941, I attended a meeting called by Maj.-Gen. Victor Odlum of all 2nd Division officers at Brighton. He stated categorically that ‘the Canadians will take no prisoners’. Everyone accepted it. What did we know? We assumed those were the rules. We were never told anything else. Later, at Battle School, I taught everyone to go in with guns blazing. If something was booby-trapped then you pushed a German at it to try it out. Prisoners were never mentioned … Two officers of the Essex Scottish served under Major-General Vokes in Italy and had read Vokes’s bulletin stating: ‘We will take no prisoners”. Once the senior British commander, General Sir Oliver Leese, got wind of the affair he ordered all bulletins and evidence of them destroyed.”
You say “after this happened”? And we’re not just talking about SS POWs.
I own a k98 Mauser that was found in a german foxhole in belgium 1944 by a Canadian soldier with the last name Inkpen who was from nova scotia I purchased it from his son, I have always been curious if this was possibly owned by a german soldier part of the 12th SS? The rifle is a 1943 BYF Oberndorf with a walnut stock that has a duffle cut made by Mr. Inkpen so he could bring it back to canada as a war trophy.
The victor gets to write the history... We all know.
I have read about all kinds of atrocities committed by all sides in all wars. The so-called allies did some nasty things as well.
War is a nasty business, been there.....
Do you have any sources for the allies doing similar to this? I haven’t come across any examples that can be proven without doubt (not saying it didn’t happen of course)
@@thehistoryexplorer Do actual confessions count?
@@JoeLukes I’m not the arbitrator of wether an account is considered as definitive truth but I’d be really interested to read them. I’m not saying these things did not happen, just that I haven’t read accounts and I would like to 👍
@@thehistoryexplorer Then I would respectfully suggest you read ‘Meeting of Generals’ by Tony Foster. He is the son of the lead judge in Meyer’s trial, Major-General Harry Foster.
@@JoeLukes thanks Joe. I will seek it out
The battle for Authie-Buron was captured by an air-recce mission and there are 2 low-level Oblique photo-sets where you can see the German tanks skirting around Authie as they move North.
My grate grandpa was in the German military. hamanid schellandbeger was his name he survived from 1938 to 1945 to the wars end
Im glad that they went to the trouble of drawing an image of Hugh Mcdonald. At least theres now an image of him for eternity.
Most people don’t recognise it. I’ve had a message saying that isn’t a drawing but its pretty clear to me
The fog of war is always graine when it comes to the truth
What do you mean by that?
This one is pretty black and white.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory is not really black and white if you know the truth the victors write the history
@@shanetharle4030 That's not true at all. Especially in this case. The former SS never stopped writing and trying to justify their horrible actions.
@@OTDMilitaryHistory on the first day of D-day there was very few Germans captured live, the allies were not choirboy, even in the brand of Brothers ,dick Winters in he book ,he said that they executed 12 German soldier ,the reason why ,he said that there wasn't anyone to take care of these soldiers ,and he couldn't spare any person to send them back to the POW Stockade, so that is a war crime , why wasn't dick Winters sent to prison,
I spoke with a vetern a long time ago of the NNSH. He told me the story of the tanks. It started with the legs.
Can you explain? That’s terrible
That's the ugliness of war. All sides did it.
War is hell.
Quoted right sir! @@thehistoryexplorer
My uncle was captured at normandy on the 7th of june,44.He was sent to dresden and excaped 3 days before the russians showed up.Its a rather long story,but he took his own life about a year after he came home to tennessee in 1946.Jessie clyde stover,corporal,U.S.Army.
I’m so sorry to hear that! It sounds like a sad but fascinating story. Immediate questions would be did he see the fire bombing of Dresden?
@thehistoryexplorer Yes he did.My mom was his sister and he told her everything,since she was the only sister my five uncles had.They all fought in WW2.3 in Europe and 2 in the pacific.I have all of their service records,and the places and things they did were crazy.My uncle,Jessie Clyde stover,had to pull dead and burnt civilians out of the rubble.My mom said that is what send him over the edge.I know some stories he told mom happened to the german soldiers when the Russians showed up.Shirley D. Stover fought from north Africa thru italy,Howard stover was a chief aircraft engine mechanic on the enterprise aircraft carrier during WW2.James C.stover fought with the 91st infantry division from north Africa thru italy.Those two brothers were fighting at the same time in north Africa and italy.He retired a seargent major in 62.He rejoined the army and fought in korea earning a silver star,2 combat bronze stars with V.Made 2 combat jumps in korea with the 187th regimental combat team,11th airborne division.Went on to to become an advisor in Vietnam with the 1st special forces .Served with the 8th army in germany.503rd on Okinawa and ft Bragg N.C.He had a gorilla tattooed on his chest wearing a green army uniform,and helmet smoking a cigar!Charles roscoe stover served with the army during the new guinea and phillipines campaign,and returned home alive in 45.I served with the U.S. army and then tennessee army national guard as a M1A1 tank commander with the 3/278 armored calvary regiment.My service was from 83 to 94.
@@markpaul-ym5wg I’d be interested in hearing in what your uncle had to say about what happened to German soldiers when the Russians showed up.
@JoeLukes HE said after they captured the camp along with the germans,they got drunk.Then,they ordered all the german soldiers to strip naked.Their was a dirt road that ran to and from the camp where they busted all of the glass vodka bottles.They made them run up and down the road naked on that broken glass.The ones that stopped running were shot.Their were other stories,but I am not going to repeat them.
@@markpaul-ym5wg Thanks for sharing this.
Sadly prisoners from all sides were murdered
A guy that owned a gun shop in my hometown owned a knights cross with diamonds on it. There was very few given, his uncle was in the SS.
I’ve never heard of a diamond encrusted knights cross!
Every nation in this conflict executed prisoners at some point
Allegedly. Other than personal testimony there is not much evidence that I can see. I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just that all everyone refers to is Dresden etc
My uncle part of the Fort Garry Horse and was killed at Carpiquet Airfield on 04 July, 1944 and is buried in this cemetery.
So sorry to hear that, terrible
It happens in all wars
Once the killing starts
Its hard to turn off
My lai another example!
My Lai. What an atrocity
Only one soldier was convicted over the My Lai massacre and all he served was 3.5 years of home detention.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF COMMUNISTIAN JOURNALISTS , AGENTS OF THE NORTH VIETNAMESE & CHINA !!!
THEY NEVER TOLD ANYONE THAT THE 'STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURES' OF THE N.V.A. & 'VIET CONG' WAS TO GO INTO A VILLAGE & START MURDERING PEOPLE, BASH A FEW WITH RIFLE BUTTS & THEN EVERYONE IS TERRORISED INTO SUBJECTION !!!
THEN THEY DRAGGED AWAY THOSE WHO WERE FIT FOR MILITARY & LABOUR SLAVERY TO BE SENT INTO BATTLE TO CONQUER MORE OF SOMEBODY ELSE'S TERRITORY !!!
THEY DID THIS IN THE 'RUSSIAN REVOLUTION', CHINA, NORTH KOREA & INDO- CHINA IN THE LATE 40's & 50's WHICH WAS DIVIDED INTO FOUR COUNTRIES, NORTH VIETNAM, SOUTH VIETNAM, CAMBODIA & LAOS & THEY DID IT IN THOSE COUNTRIES & AFRICA & THE MIDDLE EAST & CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA !!!
THEY ARE COMMUNISTS (MARXISTS/ LENINISTS) !!!
'STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE' S.O.P.'s. THIS IS WHY THERE ARE FASCISTS WHICH IS WHAT THE COMMUNISTS CALL ANYONE WHO OPPOSES THEM, OR NAZIES !!!
Sickening but a great video imagine what was going through their minds as prisoners
It must have been terrifying, just horrible
This guy Meyer was involved in quite few prisoner incidents i'm led to believe. Although I'm curious as to why a couple of times you refer to him as "Panzer" Kurt Meyer? I believe he was acting Divisional commander, I've never had a grasp on German ranks, but Panzer isn't one of them
You are correct, he was involved in incidents around Dunkirk early on in the war. Panzer Meyer was his nickname - certainly not a rank. He was actually an astute tactical commander even if he was a murderous SOB
@@thehistoryexplorerMeyer was also involved in some questionable behavior in Russia.
What's the difference? Both sides committed atrocities..the Americans were just allowed to get away with it..I know..my Grandfather was in the german army in Normandy.
@@kurtjammer9568 You are correct, the winners decide who the war criminals are .
The only criminals in this shit war were the gentlemen Churchill and Roosevelt.. And their buddy Stalin.... Greetings from Germany.
Can you do one on how the Japanese treated prisoners
What about the 50 12th ss that were executed in the town of Rots
Can we have references please . Rots was a tough fight.
The Die Deutsche Wochenschau no 719 footage at 11:24 to 11:48 is film of the actual attack on Authie/Buron on 7/6/44. As is 11:54 to 12:51. The still photos in this film bit are the tanks lost by 27 CAR at Franqueville which is just 1 km south of Authie. You can see The Abbeye d'Ardenne in the background behind the Canadian prisoners at 12:46 and it comes into view just as the RH POW walks out of frame at 12:50. The footage used here is low res but is much clearer on the original newsreel. You can just see it as a very light area with a dark smudge at the top in the gap between POW 2 and POW 3 (reading from right-hand 'as you look at it' POW No 1 )if you freeze at 12:51
Thank you very much
War is a tragedy, what myers did absolutely horrendous and got let off, wtf
Exactly! Finally a comment speaking sense. So many others have said ‘yes he did this but why haven’t you mentioned what the allies did?’
My great uncle fought in one of General Patton's tank divisions. North Africa, Sicily, and Italy. Then, into France. In his last days before he passed away. He told us of the American soldiers shooting the SS soldiers right on the spot. Not unless an American officer stopped them from shooting the SS soldiers.
When you consider the repeated behaviour of the Waffen SS, it astonishes me that some reenactors choose to dress up as them, as if it's cool in some way.
I’ve never understood that! So weird isn’t it?
So it's best to forget they existed? That the allies ultimately defeated them? We didn't loose thousands of men fighting nice people.
Where does reenactment ends and really starts
What kind of insanity does a general population generate
War is war. You clearly have no idea what a real war is since the US has pussyfooted for the last 70 years of sending our youth to die for no reason.
There are countless tales of humanity to prisoners by German soldiers. A German fighter pilot escorted a crippled B17 to safety - letting them live.
There are also many documented cases of war crimes against all allied nations.
Just a couple of examples:
The Canadian army unit "The Loyal Edmonton Regiment" murdered German prisoners of war during the invasion of Sicily.
Twenty-one German prisoners were taken placed against the wall, and shot without trial on the orders of the French Capitaine Marcel Dingeon.
Let me remind you of US Army Lt William Calley in Viet Nam.
Old man ,mister thiebaud explained us how it was in 1944...he described us how was the rue d Authie in caen
In 1944 july june
He explained us There was many german soldiers bodies lying in many parts of this road....that was awfull.in 1944 you could find many gardens and small fields along the road...the road to the abbaye d ardennes...that was the war he said that s like that
Now this man is dead but i remember all he explained us about this war.in 1990 i found a elite belt buckle at 14 rue d authie.that was amazing find ,i kept this. Very interesting video thanks
You are most welcome my friend
Its always mentioned that Meyers sentence was decreased multiple times but its rarely mentioned by whom and why...and there is a reason.
The sentence was decreased because in the end of the day Canadian officers were concerned that by applying the same rules as they did for him, all of them would be found guilty of war crimes.
Meyer was sentenced to death but the reviewing officer, Canadian Major General Volkes was concerned over the degree by which a commanding officer should be held responsible for the actions of his troops, Volkes said "there isn't a general or colonel on the Allied side that I know of who hasn't said, 'Well, this time we don't want any prisoners'"; indeed, he himself had ordered the shooting of two prisoners in 1943 before his divisional commander intervened
Sentence was then commuted to Life Imprisonment, he went to a Canadian Prison and later a British Military Prison in Germany being released for good behaviour in 1954
The Canadians were themselves pretty infamous for POW executions and retaliations against German civilians in the last phase of the war much of it was hushed and removed from official history or simply ignored by "historians".
During the fighting in Friesoythe Germany 1945, the battalion's commander of the Canadian 4th division was killed by a German soldier, but rumor spread he had been killed by a German civilian.
Outraged, the division's commander, Major-General Christopher Vokes (yes the same who decreased Meyers sentence), ordered the town to be razed in retaliation .
Twenty German civilians died in Friesoythe hiding in cellars s the town was systematically razed, with the Canadians forcing the civilian population to "evacuate" at bayonet and gunpoint, there are rumors of looting an even rapes as the Canadians were "fired up" by the death of their officer.
Similar events occurred elsewhere in Germany as the Allies advanced in the closing weeks of the war.
A few days earlier, the division had destroyed the centre of Sögel in another reprisal and also used the rubble to make the roads passable.
Little official notice was taken of the incident and the Canadian Army official history glosses over it (i wonder why).
It is covered in the regimental histories of the units involved and several accounts of the campaign.
Forty years later, Vokes wrote in his autobiography that he had "no great remorse over the elimination of Friesoythe".
nd there there are also German accounts of Canadians forcing POW into minefields to "clear" them, and the infamous case of a German POW used as a human shield in front of a Canadian afv.
Where is this account of the German POWs being used to clear minefields published. The human shield is a complete myth and been thoroughly debunked. You are literally spouting SS propaganda with that one.
The Canadians learnt from the Germans.
And the German "score in atrocities
probably outdid the Western allies
by 99 to 1.
/
@@zen4men "The Canadians learnt from the Germans." ive seen bad defenses of atrocities but this isnt even trying.
@@DD-qw4fz
Clearly you are unaware
of the the difference
between a defence,
and having understanding.
Question.
Is there any record
of these Canadian troops
killing prisoners
prior
to the discovery
that SS troops
were killing Canadian PoWs?
I think the answer to that
is NO,
but maybe you know better?
Please advise!
/
@@zen4men C. Vokes said to the Canadian High Commissioner in London when discussing Meyrs death sentence, "I told them of Sögel and Friesoythe and of the prisoners and civilians that my troops had killed in Italy and Northwest Europe".
Vokes was in Command in Italy before coming to Normandy...
He commuted Meyers sentence saying, "There isn't a general or colonel on the Allied side that I know of who hasn't said, 'Well, this time we don't want any prisoners'"
"out of horses mouths" so to speak
The truth is we have a very romantic view of the "greatest generation" and we wont be ale to look at ww2 without emotions and propaganda for at least 50 years minimum.
I used to live in Authie ! Quite impressive to see what happened in my garden in the past !
No way! Did you know of what happened there when you lived in the village?
@@thehistoryexplorer yes everybody knows about this in the area, but not necessarly in détails. I really recognized the road and the tree line in the distance, it's close to Villers Bocage where Michael Wittman destroyed a whole armoured division with his lone tiger tank. History is still very alive in this area
I love how hard it is to find videos or evidence of the War crimes the Canadians committed. I have found some, over the years, as well as the war crimes committed by ameriKan soldiers. Brutal compared to what is always spouted about the 4 or 5 German War Crimes that are forever retold. Funny thing is that it seems the Brits didn’t commit these sorts of atrocities, and seem to have actually always treated their prisoners fairly.
You mention that the 12th SS Panzerdivision was made up of cadres from the 1st SS Panzerdivision, and only 3% older than 25 years, mainly the Officers and NCO's "and many of them appear to be hardened nazis"... i consider this a very weakening expression!
These men came from the LSSAH Leibstandarte and most of them were in this unit well before the war, many of whom ran through nazi indoctrination schooling in special SS institutions. A large part being in the Leibstandarte well before it became a Panzerdivision.
Nearly all of the surviving officers and NCO's sticking to the ideology until their death.
So i'd consider all of them hardened Nazis.
You also express a high degree of disgust about Kurt Meyer ("Panzermeyer") and his short time of imprisonment.
I am 100% up to you on this matter, but there are several issues concerning the whole problem.
As there had been shootings of POW's on the allied side too (the larger proportion on the US side i guess), the allied authorities had no interest in prosecuting the german atrocities too harsh, as they would face many charges themselfes...
As i mentioned in another statement, SS Brigadeführer Fritz Witt ordered an investigation and a written report from Meyer after he got word of the shootings. This to my knowledge never materialised, as the events overtook the subject. Witt was KIA on the 14th of june by british naval artillery fire and the intense combat let the matter slip away...
In my opinion it seems odd Meyer ordering the shooting of western allied POW's and this at his command post, where it can easily be linked to him.
The guy was no idiot! I rather think the shooting was initiated by overeager youngsters, misled by the cock and bull storys of the Leibstandarte men, heard during training in Belgium,and the nazi propaganda which made peole other than german lesser than themseve...
Especially the atrocities earlier in the field and towns were not ordered by the commanding officers. These were comitted at a lower level.
And this is another point, which came into consideration by allied authorities: the youth and years of indoctrination of the 12th SS soldiers.
And ther was a new, cold war going on allready which took into consideration the need of experienced soldiers...!
In the West Point academy there is a painting in the stairway, showing an SS NCO in typi al amouflage smock. Considering the allies and the US in particular, had the SS and Waffen SS forbidden as a criminal organisation, tells an interesting contradiction...
when you tell a story... you have to tell ALL the facts and why Kurt Meyer was free after 8 years.
What part of the story have I missed?
@@thehistoryexplorer Kurt Meyer in his MEMORIES said that he had written proof that all those men killed. had orders from high command that " take no prisoners" to fasten up the INVASION. one of the Judges of that JUSTICE, was the General who gave the order to those men.
@@nestorruiz8857 The author of this video isn’t interested in facts that don’t fit the story as he wants to tell it. Please see my comment to him about 13 days ago, which he hasn’t bothered to acknowledge.
This Meyer character going free after 9 years is so typical of what happened afterwards. They made an example of a few and let the rest go. When they say never again they don’t mean it. Some of these old Nazi’s lived well into their 80’s and enjoyed the care of the state in their old age and stayed nasty for the rest of their days. Not all Germans were like that. Living under a dictatorship is quite limiting. More Germans were glad the war was over than people realise. Many never forget the starvation that set in in the 1940s but not everyone starved. If wanted a life saved or extra food you had to make good with some Nazi bureaucrat. People bartered ate potato peels, weeds and acorns to survive.
Yes it must have been terrible towards the end of the war and into the 50s
take a look at the Canadian film documentary on here, "The Valour and the Horror" The Allies were killing German POWs as soon as they had secured the beeches. (quote from the documentary ) while the German atrocities that were committed were prosecuted, reports of atrocities against the Germans were never pursued. the message seems clear, war crimes committed for a good cause are politically acceptable, perhaps regrettable, but such crimes are only prosecuted on the side that loses the war.
As I’ve said many times in these comments- I’m not saying one side adhered to the laws of war and the other did not. This video is purely about the Abbey Ardenne massacre
One sure way to make my grandfather furious was to ask him about the war. Durham light infantry
Dunkirk to Normandy.
Grandmother wasn't happy either. Doodlebugs . When the engine cut out.
A different time hey. So strange to think what they all endured, both at home and over seas