I have to say, I like the Dutch mechanised platoon structure. A shame you didn't go into its various potential reconfigurations (4x6, 3x8, 2x12 depending on the situations) like you did in your article. It's by far the best thing about the platoon structure and showcases the usefulness of the double leadership teams. Although I suppose there's only so much you can put into a video before it becomes bloated...
@@loicvanderwielen the reason I didn’t is because I don’t know if those different doctrinal configurations are still used in practice or if they just do the 4x6 all the time, which is what Boxer units do
@@Necoy666 Sure, but sometimes we were running with the dismounted infantry. Those guys make small sprints, and then smash on the ground. But those sprints were unbelievable fast😄
Cool. Hey since you're the first Dutch I knowingly chance upon online: What do you and fellow soldiers think about this union with the Bundeswehr? You know, this arrangement that the Brigades of the Dutch Royal Landforces are in theory part of the German Heer, allowing us to at least field three divisions together, while the German Naval Infantry and I assume the KSM (naval special forces) now get their orders and are being trained by the elite Dutch Marines? I'm happy that you're helping us out like that. (I also want to point out that my grampa on the father's side (R.I.P.) only ever wore the uniform of the Swiss Army (and the Swiss Postal Service) and my other grampa (R.I.P.) was a German settler near Odessa and only fled to the Germans because he was afraid of Stalin. The Germans put him in a uniform and sent him off to Stalingrad. He got out with one of the last planes. Later he successfully got captured by the French who saw his potential and put him in charge of the soup in the prisoner camp kitchen. What I'm trying to say is, in my bloodline, nobody ever laid hand on a Dutch bicycle!)
@@T.Walter-cq6ts Hello and thank you for your interest. I am not a soldier, but was at that time freelance photographer for 13mechbrig, now 13 lichte Brigade, and also for the Belgian Army. I think the cooperation between the Bundeswehr and the Royal Dutch Army is good for both countries. Important is however that The Netherlands will always be sovereign about the Army, like Germany. I understand you are from Germany. "Das Seebataillon der deutschen Marine wird Teil der Niederländischen Royal Navy. Damit ist Deutschland Co-User des Karel Doorman, ein Logistik-Support-Schiff". I do not know much about the Dutch Navy, except that the entire fleet will be replaced by new vessels and U booten. The Navy is small anyway, much too small IMO. You know about that Dutch bicycle joke, lol. Your grandpa's and my father suffered from the war. My father was a slave labourer in Leipzig, and was almost dead, when the Americans saved him. Alles Gute.
The Boxer is definitely up there in the aesthetics department, the excellent utility and versatility of the platform is a great trait to have in modern day too!
@@norbi1411I think it’s more than capable from what Russia is currently fielding and most likely will remain even more competitive with future upgrade packages being new modules which will be compatible without modifying the chassis. So far, none of the other 8x8 in the world has quick swap modules as standard and the Boxer being a 21st century design will likely remain a relevant platform for more than half a century.
How easy is it to maintain? Given the experiences from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. How survivable do you think the Boxer is? I wonder why this vehicle couldn't be mass produced and provided to the Ukrainians? German factories 🏭 should be able to mass produce a few thousand a month if they made it a priority. That could be a real help from Ukraine.
I know it's a longshot but if you're ever interested, please make a video about Brazilian Jungle Infantry battalions, as those are pretty interesting for their mission is to fight in one of the most hostile environments on the planet and cannot have many vehicles (because jungle...) and still have to cover an area the size of western Europe.
The big advantage of Boxer is that the modular design enables you to switch to an IFV-style version. So in due course, extra Boxer drive modules could be added to re-use old modules.
Big hello from Northern Ireland in the UK 🇬🇧. This is a very clear and concise video on the subject, using Clear graphs to explain the subject.... WELL DONE, GREAT CONTENT! I am fed up of clicking on rambling videos that take all day to get to the point! .
Love the deep dive into doctrine, both historical and planned. When I first saw Boxers I thought they were driverless. They have that futuristic look for sure.
Another great interview! - Is there any chance of exploring the Dutch Marines??? - The reason: Like most other military units are going through a major reorganisation and equipment procurement. The second is, unlike USMC and even the British Royal Marines, there was a tendency to wane in amphibious, expeditionary and maritime raiding operations. From an outsiders perspective it appears the organisation is light flexible...... Thanks again. Just a thought.
I don't see why the focus away from maritime operations is unique to the Dutch. Amphibious warfare was also a specialty within the USMC and Royal Marines, instead of being the default for the whole organisation, atleast throughout all the counter insurgency years. With how small the Dutch military is, it would seem strange to have such a large force dedicated solely to amphibious warfare, instead of the default light infantry/special forces support role we also often see paratroopers in today.
@@fridrekr7510 Hi, thank you for your feedback. I am not suggesting such a thing and am aware of the shift in focus over the last decade. But, that being said the video of equipment and organisation that is often highlighted by Battle Order is a suggestion to explore the Dutch Marines, as there is a tendency for smaller forces to be nimble and innovative in their approach.
Not without the flaws, but Dutches of those Western Europeans who responded quickly and determinately when world’s balance was challenged. Good for them.
The German Bundeswehr also wants to upgrade some of their Boxers with the 30mm canon to bring more firepower to their "mittlere Kräfte" or medium forces
That's not exactly true. They will get Boxers with 30x173mm guns ( wheeled IFV and heavy weapons carrier ) in addition to their APC versions, but they won't upgrade the .50cal and 40mm automated grenade launcher APCs. They could just replace the remote weapon stations on the APCs with 30x103mm RWS ( like the FLW 500) , but that means extra cost and the need to add another type of round in the inventory.
The upgraded CV9035 in the Dutch army is a pure beast of a combat vehicle. I would say it probably is the most advanced IFV that is actually deployed today. They have already received some of these upgrades from the produces now. The new mark V CV90 aimed for the Swedish armed forces will likely be the best IFV ever produced, especially after all the improvements and feedback coming from Ukrainian CV90.
You can only upgrade a dated hull so far. Germans already criticised the limited growth capability in 2003. It's a good upgrade but can not compare to new clean sheet designs.
@@jonny2954Upgraded models of CV90 are pretty much new vehicles entirely... these vehicles was built for modularity in mind. There is not much that can't be replaced or upgraded on these hulls.
@@MrCABman1972 No, new CV90 still retain the same, although slightly modified, basic hull and layout. Rear compartment height was increased on the MK III hull (previous version was only sized for 50. percentile!) Note the CV90 started off having very weak protection, only widhstanding 14.5 mm/23 mm AP in the frontal arc. It _had_ to be upgraded to meet competitor specs. Growth capability was increased only slightly to 40 tons on the Mk IV. Puma started off at 41 tons, designed with weight reserves beyond the 50 ton mark. Note due to being developed for a unmanned turret from the start instead of an afterthought Pumas layout could be optimized to take full advantage of it, minimizing protected volume in the process (higher weight/protection ratio). Coupled with a more weight efficient hull and components the Puma manages to have significantly higher level of passive protection even at a weight configuration similar to latest CV90 versions. The CV90 Mk IV can not be uparmored within its current growth capability to meet Pumas protection level in its 41 ton configuration. Dismissing gunnery trials just because they don't fit your narrative doesen't work. Especially when its an incident like Libavé 2017. Was quite shocking. Moving targets at 700, stationary at 1,200 and 1,800. Eight targets total, five rounds each target. Very windy day. Puma was the only one who hit all 8 targets, 37/40 total. All other contenders missed at least one target completely. The next best contender hit only 19/40. It wasn't specified what vehicle it was. They weren't eager to share either. After the Germans trialed and rejected the Swiss version of the CV90 in late 2001/early 2002 (which ironically directly led to Puma development starting in fall 2002) member of Swiss parliament Paul Günter even questioned the effectiveness of the CV9030CH in the Swiss Army based on its performance in the German trials. Note that the CV90 won the bid in Switzerland because of price and reliability, not performance. CV9030CH send for the trials in Germany had a mine protection plate, which Germans found to be insufficient. Not sure where you got the idea from that the CV90 has better IR signature management than the Puma. That is false. Opinions about the CV90 from Ukraine are mixed. The 40 mm version suffers from lack of ATGM and very low ready ammo storage, said to be not optimal for an IFV. They are, similar to the Challenger 2, mostly used in defensive roles. They're also first gen CV90, so they are not very well protected. As it looks like now Bradleys are reserved for quick reation forces and offensive operations.
@@jonny2954 YOu are pretty wrong, even the first generation CV90 was protected against 30mm amunition. That was a design requirement. But the first generation was weaker armoured that is true but with increased additional armour it has been upgraded well enough. The CV90 is also a fair bit smaller than the Puma, that in itself means it needs less weight for the same protection level of you understand physics at all, so weight is not all there is for protection and the CV90 also have been designed with stealth in mind. The accuracy is the system have been quite impressive in Ukraine so it works as intended in that regard. Even the anti armour of the 40mm have been proven to work really well and even threatening tanks in Ukraine, so not sure what you get that information from. The new vehicles of the CV90 are new vehicles and the weight restriction is more of a design choice than anything else as CV90 have requirements of mobility that you can't get with a heavier vehicles. It is a question about stealth, mobility and protection and different manufacturers and militaries have different requirement. The Puma is certainly not a better vehicle, it just have different design criteria's and has had to do different choices, especially in terms of heavier armour possibilities. I say it actually might be a questionable choice as the size and weight of the vehicle might be a big drawback from a reliability issue for a IFV. We just don't know as it has not been tested that well yet. The Puma would get their fair share of critique when used as well as every vehicle have pros and cons. The CV90 have at least den extremely well and even the older version sent to Ukraine have shown to be very well protected, no actual officially destroyed one yet. They have prove very resistant to drones and UAV for example as well and mines. Ukraine will make the CV90 its main IFV that is how impressed they are with it's performance. You also are wildly off base when you say it is mainly used for defensive operations. It has been used for both just as the Bradly. So it make no big difference... it just depends on where those formations are stationed.
@@MrCABman1972 Original Strf 9040 was only protected against 14.5 mm/23 mm AP in the frontal arc. Protection from 30 mm APFSDS frontal and APDS is a long lasting myth that got disproved by BAE Systems' own presentation aswell as the now public UDES 09 armor schemes. 23 mm LFP armor, 6-10 mm side armor. That is _not_ 30 mm APFSDS proof. Far from it actually. A Marder 1A3 has better armor protection than a Strf 9040. Remember the Strv 9040 only started off at 22,8 tons. No 30 mm APFSDS protection there. The swiss only got 40 up-armor kits for their CV90, the majority of their IFVs has Strf 9040 base armor and is actually less protected than the uparmored M113 KAWEST they used before. Both ASCOD (Ulan, Pizarro) variants have better base armor aswell. In Swiss trials even the upgraded Warrior 2000 performed better. CV9030 was choosen because of the best price-to-performance ratio. When comparing size, do not confuse external dimensions with internal (protected) volume. The protected volume on the Puma is lower than that of the CV90. Not the other way around. The larger external dimensions of the Puma are a result of the heavy use of composite armor which has a higher weight efficiency than steel armor but a lower volume efficency (i.e. needs to be thicker to meet the same level of protection). Puma was developed from the start with a identical crew size to the CV90 but no turret ring because the turret is unmanned. Commander and gunner seated with their stations in driving direction take up significantly less space than a two man turret ring. Also developed with adapted composite armor from the start it uses the steel hull exclusively for structure and a way to mount adapted composite, not as a ballistic protection component itself. Allows to save more weight reserves for composite with higher weight effectiveness and the usage of a construction rather than armor steel which has higher blast deformation resistance against mines and IEDs. Per stats released by BAE and Rheinmetall the 31 ton airlift configuration of the Puma already meets ballistic and exceeds mine protection of the CV90 Mk IV. The operational configuration of the Puma adds another 10 tons of exclusively armor. Limiting growth potential is indeed a design choice, but a choice driven by the initial design and used components. Suspension, tracks, hull layout. Not sure why you think 41 tons for a IFV is problematic and possibly inducing realiability issues when it is operating on conjunction with 62 ton MBTs. Very little combat footage of CV90s in Ukraine, again, because they are not used for offensive roles like the Bradleys. Ready ammo and no independent commanders sight are the main problems quoted. Just like with the Leopard 2, you can only upgrade a dated base design to a certain extent. In case of the Leopard 2 it is going a little bit better because the initial version was not below the average protection of the competition like the Strv 9040 was, but when you need to upgrade a vehicle to meet contemporary alternatives already don't expect it to meet future standards aswell. Even the Leopard 2 loses against a revolutionary new clean sheet design, it's simple. Perhaps not something like the K2 because that one doesen't introduce anything new besides an autoloader, but in case of the Puma, purpose build with an unmanned turret, decoupled running gear and adapted composite legacy desings will have a hard time. It's just the nature of engineering.
Interesting in Lithuania we are looking to increase our ifv size and the plan was more ifv vilkas 🐺 ( a boxer with a unmanned 30mm and spikes ) . Now we are debating whether we should do a mix of tracked and wheeled platforms . And i would say two most serious contenders would be cv90 and linx.
With the Bundeswehr brigade to be permanently stationed in Lithuania there might be some reason to also consider the Puma IFV for interoperability and maintenance.
Can imagine the CV90 being one of the front runners given Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Norway, The Dutch and Denmark all use it ,plus Czechia and Slovakia have them on order, some with unmanned turrets with cannon and Spike missiles.
@@SpardauDebesi when looking at unit prices for CV90 MK IV and Puma S1, you get much more bang for your buck on a Puma, as the CV90 is not THAT much cheaper (we are talking about 2-3 million per unit price difference and massive differences in capabilities)
@@zhufortheimpaler4041 There are no real difference in capabilities between these vehicles, they are very similar in capabilities and CV90 have allot more combat experience and improvements so I say they are more or less equally good choices.
Great Quality work here dude. Love the CRT visuals. What I don't understand about the Boxer units is that if they were willing to redo the numbers of each module they were getting, Why didn't they get proper Infantry carrier modules, or similar to the German army's recent choice? Adopt the Australian CRV model, or something like that. Was it purely a cost factor? Because it seems really strange to adjust these numbers the way they did and not be able to acquire the Infantry Carrier, or CRV modules instead of trying to force the engineering modules to be APC/IFVs
I don’t have a real answer but my guesses would be: 1. There was some math reason where they had enough engineer variants for some of their infantry needs in the original order and didn’t want to go over 200 total or split the fleet between two different variants 2. Adding a new variant would add a bunch of red tape and delay the program further, after it was already delayed a few years
No, not really. We aren't in the same problem level as before WW2. But we are at a very low level on the categories of equipment, soldiers, weaponry, etc. Mostly in the ammount of these available. We do have knowledge, it's not like we have a badly trained military, but we are not even close to stronger then most think. Our military has a lot of issues.
Those have been floating around since 2020… Then again, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has kicked the NATO hornet’s nest. So even our government might be forced to approve proper expansion of our armed forces
@@G4x5dano no, an actual 4th one But nothing else that rumours as far as now, pretending that the government is thinking about introducing a small selected military service on the Danish model to crew a real empowerment of the NL Landmacht, which would allow to build an extra brigade... Let's wait and see, Dutch can be very surprising
@@alcc3241 that’s awesome, bring back 41 Mechbrig. But they really need to step up their game since we can’t even fill our existing brigades right now.
Thats neat of you to feature 13 licht Battle Order! I'm sure the Pleunen will appriciate that. :) Will you at any point feature the German-Dutch integration?
Crrud! I was used to the 1(NL)LK Cold War (1) Armoured Infantry platoon composition that made a fecal-load more sense than this revolting circus of loosely combined specialists. The post Cold-War(1) dividend truly cost us dearly. I mean, I understand you have to go with the times, but this will not allow a platoon to do the basic Armoured Infantry stuff anymore. It MAY (and I use that term advisedly) work for peace-keeping and counter-Goon ops, but it makes no BLEEPING sense in real war conditions. If this is what NATO taught the Ukrainians, then I fully understand (and endorse) why they reverted back to Cold War doctrine and practices. Old (Cold War 1) Platoon org: 4x YPR-765 amphib tracked with 25mm dualfeed autocannon and MAG coax + 16 smoke canister. Each a gunner and a driver. 3x Identical Infantry dismount squads (Alpha, Bravo, Charly): Commander, MG-Team(MAG), AT-team(CG-84mm), 3x Riflemen. 1x Dismount Command group (Romeo): Troop-leader(usually the PC), MG-Team(MAG), 2x Dragon-team, 2x Qualified Riflemen. Platoon 2nd in command (Echo) usually stayed with the mounted element (the vehicles) and leads the mounted element at Command-vhcl. That's a troop with serious Teeth, with a good mix of specialisation and flatfoot Infantry capability that allows for flexibility in defense as well as assault.
Some months ago it was announced that the dutch army will procure enough tanks to supply a new dutch tank battalion, what will happen to the dutch-german battalion is unclear.
If it’s the news from Dec 2023, at that time they stated they *wanted* to make a second tank battalion that was 80/20 dutch/german, but it was not funded at that time
@@BattleOrder That was a letter from the Dutch secretary of defence informing the Tweede Kamer what the plans are for a Tankbatallion with Leopard 2A8's based in Bergen-Hohne, Germany. The process for starting the Batallion started but takes time, especially since we are still waiting for a new government.
There is no news on that. Any decision about that is political. However with the AF getting their new transport and Navy making some large orders for new subs and frigates. New tanks for the Army would be the first, hopefully with some more pantserhouwitsers. But new Leopards will take years because Germany, Norway and Tjech republic and Slovakia will be first..
I want to see more military cooperation between Belgium and the Netherlands as soon as modernization for both armies has been completed. The fact that the Dutch are styling themselves after the Germans, while the Belgians are conforming to French designs, means that m, should these two manage to cooperate efficiently, they can serve as a Petri dish for future Franco-German cooperation, laying the groundwork for an actual European battle group. It's essentially a means to test the waters on a smaller scale before jumping in too fast with the two big boys
So, after two co-existing designs you create a third one? They do this because copy/paste is more simple for a small county. If you try something new, you want influence. French and Germans in a box are complicated enough.
I’ve worked with the Belgians and stayed on their base a good amount of time. They really are a poor man’s army. When they saw our (Dutch) gear/weapons, many soldiers were informing us if it was possible to serve in the Dutch military.
We already work together: We're locked in a fierce competition who's the most broke and bureaucratic. So far the Belgians have us beat, but maybe we can ask Carla Peijs and CDA to slam another ten billion into a pointless project to please some remote provincial politician.
IMHO: The whole "Light Brigade" idea in European countries, without the capacity to airlift these brigades, is mainly driven by budget cuts and the NATO obligation to have self supporting brigades. They would have been great in the COIN ops during the 00's and 10's. But as far as (near)peer engagements go: Too light for a fight, too heavy for air-maneuverability. The US developed the Stryker Brigades to be able to deploy fast by air(SAC). But still have mobility when deployed. They would have had enough firepower to face a Motor Rifle Brigade. But when the MGS failed, so did their firepower. With the proliferation of light wheeled vehicles with airborne units, the Stryker brigade didn't seem so light anymore. And with the conflict in Ukraine, we were all reminded why you shouldn't put so many infantry in one light armored vehicle. The Modern War Institute wrote a piece back in 2017 called "NEVER BRING A STRYKER TO A TANK FIGHT". A good read about false sense of security and the outstanding use of light units in the GWOT.
That's why we're changing our Piranha wheeled APCs for CV90 tracked IFVs to be ready in the Baltics, the Piranhas will then be put in a separate battalion that will be tasked with COIN like you mentioned (which is a bit ironic since said battalion was formed a few years ago to explicitly be a dismounted light infantry unit, which was unique at the time since the other infantry was armoured, that could easily deploy and support SF, and now we're giving them 30 ton vehicles...) I don't understand why the Dutch are doing this either, since it was a big debate in military circles in Denmark about needing to switch APCs for IFVs to rearm for conventional warfare. I guess there could be an argument made for wheeled mechanised units deploying via road if shipping or train transport is restricted.
I love your videos but i wanted to ask if u could do a video about the dutch marines palatoon or even about the NLMARSOF (the dutch navy seals). Im thinking about joining the marines and i wanted to know how the leadership works. And once again i love your videos ❤🇳🇱
Nice, honest forough review! I hope with the bigger budget nowadays the 13th light brigade will get serious upgrades, back to a Mechanised Brigade. And we will probably get our own tank battalion again.
There were massive budget cuts at the time which pretty much destroyed the Dutch Army (which was mainly under pressure by the most hated Dutch prime minister ever: Mark Rutte). The complete idi ot s even made the decision to sell all the Leopard 2 A6, although at one point the remaining 18 were retained. I think Dutch Army should reaquire a fleet of several hundreds of MBTs (Leo2 makes most sense due to experience) and replace Boxers with CV90 variants. Wheels have way to limited mobility.
The Boxer was meant to be a real European project, but the Brits and everyone else left. Only the Dutch kept their end of the bargain with the Germans. A really good upgrade IMO is turning them into "PuBos" - basically just changing the mission module for one with a Puma turret. The Puma's 30mm autocannon is dual feed: APFSDS and programmable airburst. But that programmable Airburst system to hit infantry behind cover uses nothing less than the AHEAD system used in the Skyranger and Skynex. So you possibly need a software update and optronics (or a Skynex drone radar for the battalion) from Rheinmetall, and you get an IFV with massively increased firepower and the best protection against drones that money can buy.
I’m not aware of any plans but if the Boxer gets a mid-life upgrade after CV90 that adds a turret with an autocannon, I’m betting they’d add Spike to that turret as well
@@BattleOrder maybe they plan to follow suit with the German "Mittlere Kräfte" and enhance the Wheeled Mechanized motorpool with the Kampfboxer (Turret based off of the PUMA). As Germany also now considers the RCH155 (Modular Boxer variant equipped with the Modular 155mm Gun Turret based off of the PzH2000) as well as the Skyranger (SPAAG Boxer Variant).
KNDS has a Boxer variant with the tower of the PzH 2000 that can be used as mobile artillery or in direct fire against tanks and infantry if u mean that
They shouldve just kept the Bushmaster and focused on rapid deployment. This kind of half-assing shit will not work. Its already a LIGHT Brigade, you might as well keep it LIGHT
Yeah we have a few nice toys and I'm sure our soldiers are well trained. But there's not nearly enough to make any difference in any serious conflict. It's a token-force at best.
Europe is stepping up its defense capabilities in preparation for a potential conflict with Russia in the future, but I still think that most of the armed forces of Europe are just enough to delay and buy time for the US to do the heavy lifting. Several hundred panzers and IFVs to Ukraine is enough to halt Russian advance so we could expect a Desert Storm scenario if the US and everyone else have time to build up logistics in Europe to support major air operations, armored infantry and tank divisions. Why do I sound like I’m playing HoI4 this makes no sense, but you get what I’m saying.
..you hit it in the nail. Most NATO forces are well equipped and well trained but lack mass (numbers). Only the USA and maybe Poland will have the necessary numbers to matter in a European full spectrum fight.
Hm, I foresee a return of the Cold War (1) Platoon organisation. Of course with newer stuff and gadgeds, but with more punch and flex than the current org that seems to me being cooked up by a Peace-Keeper or a counter-insurgency theorist.
@roninsct7017 That's true. But the European situation is still better than the cold war; where each unit needed to kill 6 enemy units at a minimum in order to win. The odds aren't as bad. Small countries like this are underwhelming - but Britain / France / Germany / Italy and Poland can put about 15 divisions in the field. That's nothing to laugh at.
@@roninsct7017 Most European countries work on the principle that when the time comes, the Army size ramps up massively - the regular forces provide the initial counter, the reserve bolsters this, the veterans then train the conscript army. The real worry we should all have is the lack of ammunition and equipment to give to the conscript army.
@@fridrekr7510 true for 1st brigade they are being replaced but was not happend yet tho. plus.danmark is getting AA piranhas too and not to long ago they was talking about adding spike lr's to the STAVS systems soo idk i will believe it when i see it
13 light brigade is being turned into a medium brigade. One of the main issues is changing the boxers to a true infantry vehicle with a heavier weapon than just the .50. Money is still the main issue, though. The infantry pioneers from the armoured infantry will get specialty training again in the near future. This capability is now under review to include things like protective mines/minefields deployed by infantry. The shotguns are rarely used or even phased out. Short breaching shotguns are issued to engineer units, but we want to get rid of them. The idea is that 'simple' manual, ballistic and explosive breaches are done by the infantry pioneer. Complicated breaches are done by engineers.
Isn’t the Boxer supposed to be modular? Perhaps the Dutch have forgone that capability or don’t want to sink more money into buying APC or IFV modules for their Boxers
small note, and also have to say i can be wrong here but back in the day when i joined the army (2010-2013) was different and recently they changed up with camo so maybe they updated the ranks as well. but on @6:44 the drivers rank is wrong. the red one is for soldaat 3e klasse (private 3rd class), you get that when you just entered the army. after your training you become a soldaat 2e klas (pvt 2 class)
hi i resenty went to a open house of the 43 mecnised bragaide they also have a APCs and sutch and a weapen matinentce squads on them along with mechinised enginears and the camo has changed from mid to late 90s US miltary camo to a new ones that are like the polish and france camos but fused togeter (not the boxers APCs FWI)
It seems very weird that they might dismount the platoon commander, since leading from within the Boxer generally should be much better with access to CIC and better radio etc. with ability to quicker direct vehicle fire. Dismounting the commander would lead to significant reduced awareness, I would've thought.
I think it's harder to command the platoon from inside a vehicle where visibility is less than if you were outside plus it's might be bad for morale if the leader is safe inside an armored vehicle while ordering you to fight outside in the open with the only protection being natural obstacles and bulletproof vest while platoon leader the vehicles armor to hid in
@@trevdestroyer8209 I don’t agree, leading from the vehicles would give superior situational awareness and much better coms. Out there, you’d be running around trying to understand what is going on. I think this is why the Swedes have dedicated close quarters leaders to lead the dismount while the commanders try to keep a Birds Eye’s perspective.
My dad used to work for the company that did the weapon systems for the Boxer i cant remember. But i did get to play with gun system when i was 10 or so
Maybe the Dutch army should look over to the Bundeswehr. The German Army currently upgrades their Boxer with a 30mm Autocannon from the Puma IFV - typical for germans they call it "Schwerer Waffenträger Infranterie" (Heavy Weapon carrier Infantry).
Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie is a fire support vehicle and uses the manned LANCE 2 Block II turret and has no space for dismounts. The Boxer with Puma turret (RCT-30) is called "SPz Rad" and will carry dismounts. The Dutch are apparently planning a joint order for these modules.
Fun fact; did you know a chinese state operated company was tasked with equipping the dutch military's vehicles with electronics. This was only outed recently. They used a front company in Friesland
You didn't touch my unit: 17th Painfbat ... Garde Fuseliers Prinses Irene .... the emblem on the barrette in the thumbnail is ours ... you also had us in your graphics but no further mentioning off us. 🤔 Props for making this awesome channel... high quality stuff. 👌
@@baguette6209 Hm, that doesn't make any sense to me. What are you trying to say here? The part of Cold War Dividend, I get. Please explain the rest. I may need some clear language, since I am a former army officer and all that jazz.
red tape... dutch never ordered the apc module, addign a new module to the order means a massive amount of red tape. changing numbers on the existing modules is easier. and probebly only a small cost increase. on the cost aspect a big deal was that since many engineer modules were already completed they would have to be paid for but not have a vehicle to be put on, meaning completely wasted money on top of added costs. that likely meant that total costs would be higher than just sticking to all CV90's, which kind of defeats teh purpose of teh entire idea.
The use of engineer variants is accidentally fortuitous. The modern infantry squad will be built like its WW2 German predecessor, only with large numbers of expendable drone munitions complimenting or even supplanting the machine gun as the primary firepower and maneuver facilitator for the squad. As such, the additional carrying capacity for munitions and equipment in the Boxer engineer variant is admirably suited for a modern infantry role where squad magazine depth will be as great a factor or more as the number of riflemen on the line.
![POLYCAT - ข้อความรูปยิ้ม :) [Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBhIgPGCgbI/mqdefault.jpg)
10:04 the insignia of the German divisions are reversed
Ok
New computer effects are great. Were you inspired from fallout?
I have to say, I like the Dutch mechanised platoon structure. A shame you didn't go into its various potential reconfigurations (4x6, 3x8, 2x12 depending on the situations) like you did in your article. It's by far the best thing about the platoon structure and showcases the usefulness of the double leadership teams. Although I suppose there's only so much you can put into a video before it becomes bloated...
@@loicvanderwielen the reason I didn’t is because I don’t know if those different doctrinal configurations are still used in practice or if they just do the 4x6 all the time, which is what Boxer units do
I just wanted to ask if you will make a video about structure of the logistic elements of the division?
the image at 7.06 was taken by me. Training exercise 17 Painfbat, 13 Mechbrig, in 2011 on the Oirschotse heide.
Nice, thanks for your work mate 🫡👍
Cool place to have a walk too :)
@@Necoy666 Sure, but sometimes we were running with the dismounted infantry. Those guys make small sprints, and then smash on the ground. But those sprints were unbelievable fast😄
Cool. Hey since you're the first Dutch I knowingly chance upon online: What do you and fellow soldiers think about this union with the Bundeswehr? You know, this arrangement that the Brigades of the Dutch Royal Landforces are in theory part of the German Heer, allowing us to at least field three divisions together, while the German Naval Infantry and I assume the KSM (naval special forces) now get their orders and are being trained by the elite Dutch Marines? I'm happy that you're helping us out like that.
(I also want to point out that my grampa on the father's side (R.I.P.) only ever wore the uniform of the Swiss Army (and the Swiss Postal Service) and my other grampa (R.I.P.) was a German settler near Odessa and only fled to the Germans because he was afraid of Stalin. The Germans put him in a uniform and sent him off to Stalingrad. He got out with one of the last planes. Later he successfully got captured by the French who saw his potential and put him in charge of the soup in the prisoner camp kitchen. What I'm trying to say is, in my bloodline, nobody ever laid hand on a Dutch bicycle!)
@@T.Walter-cq6ts Hello and thank you for your interest. I am not a soldier, but was at that time freelance photographer for 13mechbrig, now 13 lichte Brigade, and also for the Belgian Army.
I think the cooperation between the Bundeswehr and the Royal Dutch Army is good for both countries. Important is however that The Netherlands will always be sovereign about the Army, like Germany.
I understand you are from Germany. "Das Seebataillon der deutschen Marine wird Teil der Niederländischen Royal Navy. Damit ist Deutschland Co-User des Karel Doorman, ein Logistik-Support-Schiff". I do not know much about the Dutch Navy, except that the entire fleet will be replaced by new vessels and U booten. The Navy is small anyway, much too small IMO.
You know about that Dutch bicycle joke, lol.
Your grandpa's and my father suffered from the war. My father was a slave labourer in Leipzig, and was almost dead, when the Americans saved him. Alles Gute.
The Boxer is definitely up there in the aesthetics department, the excellent utility and versatility of the platform is a great trait to have in modern day too!
is it though compared to competition?
@@norbi1411I think it’s more than capable from what Russia is currently fielding and most likely will remain even more competitive with future upgrade packages being new modules which will be compatible without modifying the chassis. So far, none of the other 8x8 in the world has quick swap modules as standard and the Boxer being a 21st century design will likely remain a relevant platform for more than half a century.
@@dannyzero692 basically everything is better than BTR. Also there are very strong reasons why Boxer is the only APC with swap modules...
I'm just worried boxers won't have the combat manoeuvrability compared to the warriors its replacing.
How easy is it to maintain?
Given the experiences from Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine. How survivable do you think the Boxer is?
I wonder why this vehicle couldn't be mass produced and provided to the Ukrainians?
German factories 🏭 should be able to mass produce a few thousand a month if they made it a priority. That could be a real help from Ukraine.
HOLY MOLY the quality that you put into this
Love the old computer screen effect that you used in this video. Really col video!
Lancett is smiling.
I know it's a longshot but if you're ever interested, please make a video about Brazilian Jungle Infantry battalions, as those are pretty interesting for their mission is to fight in one of the most hostile environments on the planet and cannot have many vehicles (because jungle...) and still have to cover an area the size of western Europe.
seconding, brazil has always been a mystery to me and id like to learn more about them.
I would love to learn more about the Brazilian Army units.
That sounds pretty cool.
Really like all the Dutch language in text added to this one, I hope you continue to do so for other countries too.
You once again stepped up your game!
Awesome!
Also very much liked the personal connections you mentioned
Also the subtle mems😂
The big advantage of Boxer is that the modular design enables you to switch to an IFV-style version. So in due course, extra Boxer drive modules could be added to re-use old modules.
Nice to see the cool vehicles of today. I was a .50 gunner on the DAF YP-408 at 45 painfbat back in 1982
9:30 The quality of editing for this screen!
Big hello from Northern Ireland in the UK 🇬🇧. This is a very clear and concise video on the subject, using Clear graphs to explain the subject.... WELL DONE, GREAT CONTENT! I am fed up of clicking on rambling videos that take all day to get to the point! .
12:59 is that a 38t/Marder III getting Spiked? Excellent video as always. CV90, Boxer and Bushmaster is a bit of a dream team
It looks like an swedish M/43. But it is based on the same chassis.
Love the deep dive into doctrine, both historical and planned. When I first saw Boxers I thought they were driverless. They have that futuristic look for sure.
Another great interview! - Is there any chance of exploring the Dutch Marines??? - The reason: Like most other military units are going through a major reorganisation and equipment procurement. The second is, unlike USMC and even the British Royal Marines, there was a tendency to wane in amphibious, expeditionary and maritime raiding operations. From an outsiders perspective it appears the organisation is light flexible......
Thanks again. Just a thought.
I don't see why the focus away from maritime operations is unique to the Dutch. Amphibious warfare was also a specialty within the USMC and Royal Marines, instead of being the default for the whole organisation, atleast throughout all the counter insurgency years. With how small the Dutch military is, it would seem strange to have such a large force dedicated solely to amphibious warfare, instead of the default light infantry/special forces support role we also often see paratroopers in today.
@@fridrekr7510 Hi, thank you for your feedback. I am not suggesting such a thing and am aware of the shift in focus over the last decade. But, that being said the video of equipment and organisation that is often highlighted by Battle Order is a suggestion to explore the Dutch Marines, as there is a tendency for smaller forces to be nimble and innovative in their approach.
Love the new style!
Luchtmobiele Brigade up next!😊
Not without the flaws, but Dutches of those Western Europeans who responded quickly and determinately when world’s balance was challenged.
Good for them.
The German Bundeswehr also wants to upgrade some of their Boxers with the 30mm canon to bring more firepower to their "mittlere Kräfte" or medium forces
German "Medium" forces being heavier than most countries' Mechanised.
We Germans love chunky forces^^
would be really nice to see a video of battle order compairing the new light, middle and heavy forces
That's not exactly true. They will get Boxers with 30x173mm guns ( wheeled IFV and heavy weapons carrier ) in addition to their APC versions, but they won't upgrade the .50cal and 40mm automated grenade launcher APCs.
They could just replace the remote weapon stations on the APCs with 30x103mm RWS ( like the FLW 500) , but that means extra cost and the need to add another type of round in the inventory.
@@jonny2954Mechanised is the medium forces, heavy would be armoured. How is German mechanised heavier than most countries'?
I wish we still had our fleet of Leopards
Ik denk dat je niet de enigste bent. We leasen er nu bij de Duitsers. Die 900 die we ooit hadden komen niet meer terug vrees ik
Dankje rutte
@@sabrewarrior3548 dat dus. En nu mooi weer spelen om baasje van te worden…🤮
Ahhh~ No tanks?
The Dutch military is taking steps to buying new Leopard 2A8s from KMW.
The upgraded CV9035 in the Dutch army is a pure beast of a combat vehicle. I would say it probably is the most advanced IFV that is actually deployed today. They have already received some of these upgrades from the produces now. The new mark V CV90 aimed for the Swedish armed forces will likely be the best IFV ever produced, especially after all the improvements and feedback coming from Ukrainian CV90.
You can only upgrade a dated hull so far. Germans already criticised the limited growth capability in 2003. It's a good upgrade but can not compare to new clean sheet designs.
@@jonny2954Upgraded models of CV90 are pretty much new vehicles entirely... these vehicles was built for modularity in mind.
There is not much that can't be replaced or upgraded on these hulls.
@@MrCABman1972 No, new CV90 still retain the same, although slightly modified, basic hull and layout. Rear compartment height was increased on the MK III hull (previous version was only sized for 50. percentile!) Note the CV90 started off having very weak protection, only widhstanding 14.5 mm/23 mm AP in the frontal arc. It _had_ to be upgraded to meet competitor specs.
Growth capability was increased only slightly to 40 tons on the Mk IV. Puma started off at 41 tons, designed with weight reserves beyond the 50 ton mark. Note due to being developed for a unmanned turret from the start instead of an afterthought Pumas layout could be optimized to take full advantage of it, minimizing protected volume in the process (higher weight/protection ratio). Coupled with a more weight efficient hull and components the Puma manages to have significantly higher level of passive protection even at a weight configuration similar to latest CV90 versions. The CV90 Mk IV can not be uparmored within its current growth capability to meet Pumas protection level in its 41 ton configuration.
Dismissing gunnery trials just because they don't fit your narrative doesen't work. Especially when its an incident like Libavé 2017. Was quite shocking. Moving targets at 700, stationary at 1,200 and 1,800. Eight targets total, five rounds each target. Very windy day. Puma was the only one who hit all 8 targets, 37/40 total. All other contenders missed at least one target completely. The next best contender hit only 19/40. It wasn't specified what vehicle it was. They weren't eager to share either.
After the Germans trialed and rejected the Swiss version of the CV90 in late 2001/early 2002 (which ironically directly led to Puma development starting in fall 2002) member of Swiss parliament Paul Günter even questioned the effectiveness of the CV9030CH in the Swiss Army based on its performance in the German trials. Note that the CV90 won the bid in Switzerland because of price and reliability, not performance. CV9030CH send for the trials in Germany had a mine protection plate, which Germans found to be insufficient.
Not sure where you got the idea from that the CV90 has better IR signature management than the Puma. That is false.
Opinions about the CV90 from Ukraine are mixed. The 40 mm version suffers from lack of ATGM and very low ready ammo storage, said to be not optimal for an IFV. They are, similar to the Challenger 2, mostly used in defensive roles. They're also first gen CV90, so they are not very well protected. As it looks like now Bradleys are reserved for quick reation forces and offensive operations.
@@jonny2954 YOu are pretty wrong, even the first generation CV90 was protected against 30mm amunition. That was a design requirement. But the first generation was weaker armoured that is true but with increased additional armour it has been upgraded well enough.
The CV90 is also a fair bit smaller than the Puma, that in itself means it needs less weight for the same protection level of you understand physics at all, so weight is not all there is for protection and the CV90 also have been designed with stealth in mind.
The accuracy is the system have been quite impressive in Ukraine so it works as intended in that regard. Even the anti armour of the 40mm have been proven to work really well and even threatening tanks in Ukraine, so not sure what you get that information from.
The new vehicles of the CV90 are new vehicles and the weight restriction is more of a design choice than anything else as CV90 have requirements of mobility that you can't get with a heavier vehicles. It is a question about stealth, mobility and protection and different manufacturers and militaries have different requirement.
The Puma is certainly not a better vehicle, it just have different design criteria's and has had to do different choices, especially in terms of heavier armour possibilities. I say it actually might be a questionable choice as the size and weight of the vehicle might be a big drawback from a reliability issue for a IFV. We just don't know as it has not been tested that well yet. The Puma would get their fair share of critique when used as well as every vehicle have pros and cons.
The CV90 have at least den extremely well and even the older version sent to Ukraine have shown to be very well protected, no actual officially destroyed one yet. They have prove very resistant to drones and UAV for example as well and mines.
Ukraine will make the CV90 its main IFV that is how impressed they are with it's performance. You also are wildly off base when you say it is mainly used for defensive operations. It has been used for both just as the Bradly. So it make no big difference... it just depends on where those formations are stationed.
@@MrCABman1972 Original Strf 9040 was only protected against 14.5 mm/23 mm AP in the frontal arc. Protection from 30 mm APFSDS frontal and APDS is a long lasting myth that got disproved by BAE Systems' own presentation aswell as the now public UDES 09 armor schemes. 23 mm LFP armor, 6-10 mm side armor. That is _not_ 30 mm APFSDS proof. Far from it actually. A Marder 1A3 has better armor protection than a Strf 9040. Remember the Strv 9040 only started off at 22,8 tons. No 30 mm APFSDS protection there.
The swiss only got 40 up-armor kits for their CV90, the majority of their IFVs has Strf 9040 base armor and is actually less protected than the uparmored M113 KAWEST they used before. Both ASCOD (Ulan, Pizarro) variants have better base armor aswell. In Swiss trials even the upgraded Warrior 2000 performed better. CV9030 was choosen because of the best price-to-performance ratio.
When comparing size, do not confuse external dimensions with internal (protected) volume. The protected volume on the Puma is lower than that of the CV90. Not the other way around. The larger external dimensions of the Puma are a result of the heavy use of composite armor which has a higher weight efficiency than steel armor but a lower volume efficency (i.e. needs to be thicker to meet the same level of protection). Puma was developed from the start with a identical crew size to the CV90 but no turret ring because the turret is unmanned. Commander and gunner seated with their stations in driving direction take up significantly less space than a two man turret ring.
Also developed with adapted composite armor from the start it uses the steel hull exclusively for structure and a way to mount adapted composite, not as a ballistic protection component itself. Allows to save more weight reserves for composite with higher weight effectiveness and the usage of a construction rather than armor steel which has higher blast deformation resistance against mines and IEDs.
Per stats released by BAE and Rheinmetall the 31 ton airlift configuration of the Puma already meets ballistic and exceeds mine protection of the CV90 Mk IV. The operational configuration of the Puma adds another 10 tons of exclusively armor.
Limiting growth potential is indeed a design choice, but a choice driven by the initial design and used components. Suspension, tracks, hull layout.
Not sure why you think 41 tons for a IFV is problematic and possibly inducing realiability issues when it is operating on conjunction with 62 ton MBTs.
Very little combat footage of CV90s in Ukraine, again, because they are not used for offensive roles like the Bradleys. Ready ammo and no independent commanders sight are the main problems quoted.
Just like with the Leopard 2, you can only upgrade a dated base design to a certain extent. In case of the Leopard 2 it is going a little bit better because the initial version was not below the average protection of the competition like the Strv 9040 was, but when you need to upgrade a vehicle to meet contemporary alternatives already don't expect it to meet future standards aswell. Even the Leopard 2 loses against a revolutionary new clean sheet design, it's simple. Perhaps not something like the K2 because that one doesen't introduce anything new besides an autoloader, but in case of the Puma, purpose build with an unmanned turret, decoupled running gear and adapted composite legacy desings will have a hard time. It's just the nature of engineering.
Interesting in Lithuania we are looking to increase our ifv size and the plan was more ifv vilkas 🐺 ( a boxer with a unmanned 30mm and spikes ) . Now we are debating whether we should do a mix of tracked and wheeled platforms . And i would say two most serious contenders would be cv90 and linx.
With the Bundeswehr brigade to be permanently stationed in Lithuania there might be some reason to also consider the Puma IFV for interoperability and maintenance.
Can imagine the CV90 being one of the front runners given Estonia, Finland, Sweden, Norway, The Dutch and Denmark all use it ,plus Czechia and Slovakia have them on order, some with unmanned turrets with cannon and Spike missiles.
@@RichelieuUnlimited Puma is a great platform but to expansive. Altho we are buying a company of leopard 2a8 so will see...
@@SpardauDebesi when looking at unit prices for CV90 MK IV and Puma S1, you get much more bang for your buck on a Puma, as the CV90 is not THAT much cheaper (we are talking about 2-3 million per unit price difference and massive differences in capabilities)
@@zhufortheimpaler4041 There are no real difference in capabilities between these vehicles, they are very similar in capabilities and CV90 have allot more combat experience and improvements so I say they are more or less equally good choices.
Thank you for this awesome video!! I just love the way you portray the squad and platoon lay-out! Greetings from the Netherlands!
Hi from the netherlands, I like your videos very much, and I am glad you made a video about our army!
I love the new editing style, great vid
Great Quality work here dude. Love the CRT visuals.
What I don't understand about the Boxer units is that if they were willing to redo the numbers of each module they were getting, Why didn't they get proper Infantry carrier modules, or similar to the German army's recent choice? Adopt the Australian CRV model, or something like that.
Was it purely a cost factor?
Because it seems really strange to adjust these numbers the way they did and not be able to acquire the Infantry Carrier, or CRV modules instead of trying to force the engineering modules to be APC/IFVs
I don’t have a real answer but my guesses would be:
1. There was some math reason where they had enough engineer variants for some of their infantry needs in the original order and didn’t want to go over 200 total or split the fleet between two different variants
2. Adding a new variant would add a bunch of red tape and delay the program further, after it was already delayed a few years
Loving the production value
netherlands mentioned, W.
Thanks for mentioning my country’s military lol, we’re tougher than some think
implying anyone thinks about you at all lmao
@@jb76489 wdym
@@jb76489 without the netherlands europe would fall apart.
No, not really. We aren't in the same problem level as before WW2.
But we are at a very low level on the categories of equipment, soldiers, weaponry, etc. Mostly in the ammount of these available. We do have knowledge, it's not like we have a badly trained military, but we are not even close to stronger then most think.
Our military has a lot of issues.
Rumors say that a new NL mechanised brigade is going to be planned...
Next year on a Tuesday, right?
Those have been floating around since 2020…
Then again, Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has kicked the NATO hornet’s nest. So even our government might be forced to approve proper expansion of our armed forces
You mean a 4th brigade or the 13th will reconfigure to Heavy again?
@@G4x5dano no, an actual 4th one
But nothing else that rumours as far as now, pretending that the government is thinking about introducing a small selected military service on the Danish model to crew a real empowerment of the NL Landmacht, which would allow to build an extra brigade...
Let's wait and see, Dutch can be very surprising
@@alcc3241 that’s awesome, bring back 41 Mechbrig. But they really need to step up their game since we can’t even fill our existing brigades right now.
Interesting
Of course it being Boxer we are talking about they don’t need whole new vehicles, they just need the infantry APC or IFV module
It really is ashaming that we do not have our own tanks anymore.
Nice and informative video as always :)
(The CGA+ retro feels more late 80:s or early 90:s though)
Thats neat of you to feature 13 licht Battle Order! I'm sure the Pleunen will appriciate that. :)
Will you at any point feature the German-Dutch integration?
Also appriciate you explaining the Boxer-genie situation, that never made sense to me.
Crrud!
I was used to the 1(NL)LK Cold War (1) Armoured Infantry platoon composition that made a fecal-load more sense than this revolting circus of loosely combined specialists. The post Cold-War(1) dividend truly cost us dearly.
I mean, I understand you have to go with the times, but this will not allow a platoon to do the basic Armoured Infantry stuff anymore.
It MAY (and I use that term advisedly) work for peace-keeping and counter-Goon ops, but it makes no BLEEPING sense in real war conditions.
If this is what NATO taught the Ukrainians, then I fully understand (and endorse) why they reverted back to Cold War doctrine and practices.
Old (Cold War 1) Platoon org:
4x YPR-765 amphib tracked with 25mm dualfeed autocannon and MAG coax + 16 smoke canister. Each a gunner and a driver.
3x Identical Infantry dismount squads (Alpha, Bravo, Charly): Commander, MG-Team(MAG), AT-team(CG-84mm), 3x Riflemen.
1x Dismount Command group (Romeo): Troop-leader(usually the PC), MG-Team(MAG), 2x Dragon-team, 2x Qualified Riflemen.
Platoon 2nd in command (Echo) usually stayed with the mounted element (the vehicles) and leads the mounted element at Command-vhcl.
That's a troop with serious Teeth, with a good mix of specialisation and flatfoot Infantry capability that allows for flexibility in defense as well as assault.
I was in the Boxer ambulance on the rough terrain in the Oirschotse Heide, and it was a wonderful smooth ride. Excellent suspension.
Some months ago it was announced that the dutch army will procure enough tanks to supply a new dutch tank battalion, what will happen to the dutch-german battalion is unclear.
If it’s the news from Dec 2023, at that time they stated they *wanted* to make a second tank battalion that was 80/20 dutch/german, but it was not funded at that time
@@BattleOrder That was a letter from the Dutch secretary of defence informing the Tweede Kamer what the plans are for a Tankbatallion with Leopard 2A8's based in Bergen-Hohne, Germany. The process for starting the Batallion started but takes time, especially since we are still waiting for a new government.
There is no news on that. Any decision about that is political.
However with the AF getting their new transport and Navy making some large orders for new subs and frigates. New tanks for the Army would be the first, hopefully with some more pantserhouwitsers. But new Leopards will take years because Germany, Norway and Tjech republic and Slovakia will be first..
I want to see more military cooperation between Belgium and the Netherlands as soon as modernization for both armies has been completed.
The fact that the Dutch are styling themselves after the Germans, while the Belgians are conforming to French designs, means that m, should these two manage to cooperate efficiently, they can serve as a Petri dish for future Franco-German cooperation, laying the groundwork for an actual European battle group.
It's essentially a means to test the waters on a smaller scale before jumping in too fast with the two big boys
So, after two co-existing designs you create a third one? They do this because copy/paste is more simple for a small county. If you try something new, you want influence. French and Germans in a box are complicated enough.
They are styling themselves after the Bundeswehr is because the dutch army in its entirty is encorporated into Bundeswehr and essentially part of it.
I’ve worked with the Belgians and stayed on their base a good amount of time. They really are a poor man’s army. When they saw our (Dutch) gear/weapons, many soldiers were informing us if it was possible to serve in the Dutch military.
@@G4x5da thats crazy cause we Dutch have a poor army too but the Belgen always need to beat us at such things lmfao
We already work together: We're locked in a fierce competition who's the most broke and bureaucratic.
So far the Belgians have us beat, but maybe we can ask Carla Peijs and CDA to slam another ten billion into a pointless project to please some remote provincial politician.
I'm too dumb for the Atomic Cavalry video. This one is really easy to follow though!
Been waiting for this vid for a while. Hyped!
IMHO: The whole "Light Brigade" idea in European countries, without the capacity to airlift these brigades, is mainly driven by budget cuts and the NATO obligation to have self supporting brigades.
They would have been great in the COIN ops during the 00's and 10's.
But as far as (near)peer engagements go: Too light for a fight, too heavy for air-maneuverability.
The US developed the Stryker Brigades to be able to deploy fast by air(SAC). But still have mobility when deployed. They would have had enough firepower to face a Motor Rifle Brigade. But when the MGS failed, so did their firepower. With the proliferation of light wheeled vehicles with airborne units, the Stryker brigade didn't seem so light anymore. And with the conflict in Ukraine, we were all reminded why you shouldn't put so many infantry in one light armored vehicle.
The Modern War Institute wrote a piece back in 2017 called "NEVER BRING A STRYKER TO A TANK FIGHT". A good read about false sense of security and the outstanding use of light units in the GWOT.
That's why we're changing our Piranha wheeled APCs for CV90 tracked IFVs to be ready in the Baltics, the Piranhas will then be put in a separate battalion that will be tasked with COIN like you mentioned (which is a bit ironic since said battalion was formed a few years ago to explicitly be a dismounted light infantry unit, which was unique at the time since the other infantry was armoured, that could easily deploy and support SF, and now we're giving them 30 ton vehicles...) I don't understand why the Dutch are doing this either, since it was a big debate in military circles in Denmark about needing to switch APCs for IFVs to rearm for conventional warfare. I guess there could be an argument made for wheeled mechanised units deploying via road if shipping or train transport is restricted.
I love your videos but i wanted to ask if u could do a video about the dutch marines palatoon or even about the NLMARSOF (the dutch navy seals). Im thinking about joining the marines and i wanted to know how the leadership works. And once again i love your videos ❤🇳🇱
Again a very interesting video. Thanks a lot and keep up the good work.
Nice, honest forough review!
I hope with the bigger budget nowadays the 13th light brigade will get serious upgrades, back to a Mechanised Brigade. And we will probably get our own tank battalion again.
Having served in the Royal Netherlands Navy, this is amazing to learn about the organisation of the other military branches in my country this way!
i like the boxer chassis, it looks nice.
new style is fly asf!
Dude, I love this channel.
I honestly love to see that you are really on point with the info! Love your videos! 🇳🇱
Please keep the Aliens aesthetic for all your vids lol
Do you plan covering more European (more to east) countires in near future? (like their inf. squads, tank platoons, etc.)
There were massive budget cuts at the time which pretty much destroyed the Dutch Army (which was mainly under pressure by the most hated Dutch prime minister ever: Mark Rutte). The complete idi ot s even made the decision to sell all the Leopard 2 A6, although at one point the remaining 18 were retained.
I think Dutch Army should reaquire a fleet of several hundreds of MBTs (Leo2 makes most sense due to experience) and replace Boxers with CV90 variants. Wheels have way to limited mobility.
Amazing editing and content as always!
Romania when?😊
Netherlands mentioned 🇳🇱🗣️
The Boxer was meant to be a real European project, but the Brits and everyone else left. Only the Dutch kept their end of the bargain with the Germans. A really good upgrade IMO is turning them into "PuBos" - basically just changing the mission module for one with a Puma turret. The Puma's 30mm autocannon is dual feed: APFSDS and programmable airburst. But that programmable Airburst system to hit infantry behind cover uses nothing less than the AHEAD system used in the Skyranger and Skynex. So you possibly need a software update and optronics (or a Skynex drone radar for the battalion) from Rheinmetall, and you get an IFV with massively increased firepower and the best protection against drones that money can buy.
When you only buy just enough for peace time requirements - you hope there is no war.
The boxer units don’t have a lot in the way of AT firepower. Do they have any plans to add Spike, Javelin or even NLAW to the line platoons?
I’m not aware of any plans but if the Boxer gets a mid-life upgrade after CV90 that adds a turret with an autocannon, I’m betting they’d add Spike to that turret as well
@@BattleOrder maybe they plan to follow suit with the German "Mittlere Kräfte" and enhance the Wheeled Mechanized motorpool with the Kampfboxer (Turret based off of the PUMA).
As Germany also now considers the RCH155 (Modular Boxer variant equipped with the Modular 155mm Gun Turret based off of the PzH2000) as well as the Skyranger (SPAAG Boxer Variant).
KNDS has a Boxer variant with the tower of the PzH 2000 that can be used as mobile artillery or in direct fire against tanks and infantry if u mean that
@@FearmyAC130 which is called the RCH155
The battalions employing the Boxer have consolidated the AT (Spike) units into one company. The Boxer Squad has a Pzf-3.
6 dismounts per vic sounds like BMP3s and their deficient infantry strength
They shouldve just kept the Bushmaster and focused on rapid deployment. This kind of half-assing shit will not work. Its already a LIGHT Brigade, you might as well keep it LIGHT
Yeah we have a few nice toys and I'm sure our soldiers are well trained. But there's not nearly enough to make any difference in any serious conflict. It's a token-force at best.
Europe is stepping up its defense capabilities in preparation for a potential conflict with Russia in the future, but I still think that most of the armed forces of Europe are just enough to delay and buy time for the US to do the heavy lifting. Several hundred panzers and IFVs to Ukraine is enough to halt Russian advance so we could expect a Desert Storm scenario if the US and everyone else have time to build up logistics in Europe to support major air operations, armored infantry and tank divisions.
Why do I sound like I’m playing HoI4 this makes no sense, but you get what I’m saying.
..you hit it in the nail. Most NATO forces are well equipped and well trained but lack mass (numbers). Only the USA and maybe Poland will have the necessary numbers to matter in a European full spectrum fight.
Hm, I foresee a return of the Cold War (1) Platoon organisation. Of course with newer stuff and gadgeds, but with more punch and flex than the current org that seems to me being cooked up by a Peace-Keeper or a counter-insurgency theorist.
@roninsct7017 That's true. But the European situation is still better than the cold war; where each unit needed to kill 6 enemy units at a minimum in order to win. The odds aren't as bad. Small countries like this are underwhelming - but Britain / France / Germany / Italy and Poland can put about 15 divisions in the field. That's nothing to laugh at.
@@roninsct7017 Most European countries work on the principle that when the time comes, the Army size ramps up massively - the regular forces provide the initial counter, the reserve bolsters this, the veterans then train the conscript army. The real worry we should all have is the lack of ammunition and equipment to give to the conscript army.
The new art style is amazing.
u should do one with the danish cv9035dk and piranha 5 grps they have c8iur's and m60e6 :D
UP
M60E6, that's hot!
It sounds like the Piranhas are being transferred to the "light" infantry and being replaced with more CV90s in the armoured brigade.
@@fridrekr7510 true for 1st brigade they are being replaced but was not happend yet tho. plus.danmark is getting AA piranhas too and not to long ago they was talking about adding spike lr's to the STAVS systems soo idk i will believe it when i see it
13 light brigade is being turned into a medium brigade. One of the main issues is changing the boxers to a true infantry vehicle with a heavier weapon than just the .50. Money is still the main issue, though.
The infantry pioneers from the armoured infantry will get specialty training again in the near future. This capability is now under review to include things like protective mines/minefields deployed by infantry.
The shotguns are rarely used or even phased out. Short breaching shotguns are issued to engineer units, but we want to get rid of them. The idea is that 'simple' manual, ballistic and explosive breaches are done by the infantry pioneer. Complicated breaches are done by engineers.
Isn’t the Boxer supposed to be modular? Perhaps the Dutch have forgone that capability or don’t want to sink more money into buying APC or IFV modules for their Boxers
Our Dutch government doesn't like spending money. The military was the first one to get the budget cut.
Im going to the 13th licht brigade in september this year for my volunteer service as a repairman so seeing this video was like a welcoming sign
would love a video on dutch airborne units
The 11th infantry bataljon is being converted to be airborne.
Thanks, very informative & great presentation style 👍
Great vid 👍 "If it ain't Dutch, it ain't much" ;-)
please more of the dutch military branches
Cv90 is absolutely amazing. I've been in it a few time when i was still in the air mobile assault.
small note, and also have to say i can be wrong here but back in the day when i joined the army (2010-2013) was different and recently they changed up with camo so maybe they updated the ranks as well.
but on @6:44 the drivers rank is wrong. the red one is for soldaat 3e klasse (private 3rd class), you get that when you just entered the army. after your training you become a soldaat 2e klas (pvt 2 class)
Ik weet niet in welk leger jij hebt gezeten maar rood is al een tijdje(2002) soldaat der 2e klasse.
The Belgian army should really learn from our northern neighbors
Loved the visuals
the new graphics are great.
The Dutch are so quirky
Can you pls make more Videos about the modern Bundeswehr?
hi i resenty went to a open house of the 43 mecnised bragaide they also have a APCs and sutch and a weapen matinentce squads on them along with mechinised enginears and the camo has changed from mid to late 90s US miltary camo to a new ones that are like the polish and france camos but fused togeter (not the boxers APCs FWI)
It seems very weird that they might dismount the platoon commander, since leading from within the Boxer generally should be much better with access to CIC and better radio etc. with ability to quicker direct vehicle fire. Dismounting the commander would lead to significant reduced awareness, I would've thought.
I think it's harder to command the platoon from inside a vehicle where visibility is less than if you were outside plus it's might be bad for morale if the leader is safe inside an armored vehicle while ordering you to fight outside in the open with the only protection being natural obstacles and bulletproof vest while platoon leader the vehicles armor to hid in
@@trevdestroyer8209 I don’t agree, leading from the vehicles would give superior situational awareness and much better coms. Out there, you’d be running around trying to understand what is going on. I think this is why the Swedes have dedicated close quarters leaders to lead the dismount while the commanders try to keep a Birds Eye’s perspective.
Had a heart attack trying to click in the video as fast as I could.
My dad used to work for the company that did the weapon systems for the Boxer i cant remember.
But i did get to play with gun system when i was 10 or so
Maybe the Dutch army should look over to the Bundeswehr.
The German Army currently upgrades their Boxer with a 30mm Autocannon from the Puma IFV - typical for germans they call it "Schwerer Waffenträger Infranterie" (Heavy Weapon carrier Infantry).
Schwerer Waffenträger Infanterie is a fire support vehicle and uses the manned LANCE 2 Block II turret and has no space for dismounts. The Boxer with Puma turret (RCT-30) is called "SPz Rad" and will carry dismounts. The Dutch are apparently planning a joint order for these modules.
At 10:05 you mixed up the insignia of the two German Divisions.
I’ve joined the war on misinformation on the side of misinformation
@@BattleOrderNo worries.
You are doing Gods work my man!
Keep on the good stuff!
I wonder if they’ll go the Stryker Dragoon route with the 30mm MK 44 Bushmaster in the unmanned turret or the M230 30mm.
Fun fact; did you know a chinese state operated company was tasked with equipping the dutch military's vehicles with electronics. This was only outed recently. They used a front company in Friesland
Lol i still remember dutch soldiers running yelling bang bang because they had no blanks XD
Good to see its still a mess
You didn't touch my unit: 17th Painfbat ... Garde Fuseliers Prinses Irene .... the emblem on the barrette in the thumbnail is ours ... you also had us in your graphics but no further mentioning off us. 🤔
Props for making this awesome channel... high quality stuff. 👌
love the PipBoy graphics
Great vid !!
i like it :)
The Dutch are built different
Great video. But you mixed up the Signs from the German 1.PzDiv and the 10.PzDiv
any vids about switzerland (grenadiers or fusilliers)?
The Dutch government limits the Dutch Military greatly.
What is the point of the Boxer being modular if the dutch couldn't just order the APC module and swap it instead of the engineer module?
Two words: Too Costly.
Our Dutch government has cheaped out on our military. So like the comment above me said, it's just too costly for at that time saving money
@@baguette6209 Hm, that doesn't make any sense to me. What are you trying to say here? The part of Cold War Dividend, I get.
Please explain the rest. I may need some clear language, since I am a former army officer and all that jazz.
red tape... dutch never ordered the apc module, addign a new module to the order means a massive amount of red tape. changing numbers on the existing modules is easier. and probebly only a small cost increase. on the cost aspect a big deal was that since many engineer modules were already completed they would have to be paid for but not have a vehicle to be put on, meaning completely wasted money on top of added costs. that likely meant that total costs would be higher than just sticking to all CV90's, which kind of defeats teh purpose of teh entire idea.
"No tanks?" caught me off guard hahaha
We got nice stuff in the Netherlands:-)
Just curious where do Boxer Romeo and Echo commander sit in since 6 seated infantry are full capacity of engineer version Boxer?
The vehicle commander seat. The Boxers with alpha/bravo squad leaders in command have a free seat in the back
Love the Pip Boy sound effect
Would be really interested in the dutch reserve units which apparently (from word of mouth) don't have heavy weapons (MANPATS/ GPMGs)
Even the minimi's are on short supply
Totally correct.. and no minimi’s
This guy makes amazing content. Only thing stopping me from subning is the pride ornaments around the channel logo
honestly... I was in the 42nd when they were still painf (mech inf) and if they switched from a YPR to a boxer they got a downgrade... such a shame.
The use of engineer variants is accidentally fortuitous.
The modern infantry squad will be built like its WW2 German predecessor, only with large numbers of expendable drone munitions complimenting or even supplanting the machine gun as the primary firepower and maneuver facilitator for the squad.
As such, the additional carrying capacity for munitions and equipment in the Boxer engineer variant is admirably suited for a modern infantry role where squad magazine depth will be as great a factor or more as the number of riflemen on the line.