The folks who just show up have zero frame of reference of how Buildzoid creates content.Perhaps a short series on Overclocking basics to point new channel viewers toward . This would put us on the same pages roughly. Not everyone understands how the power gets from A-B.
@@tobiwonkanogy2975 yea ive said that to him for awhile through comments, maybe theres another youtuber that does it better, but i'd love to hear it from the classic bz ramblin way.
agree, I wish he would kill the elitus tone/attitude. If not for the douche-baggary insulting tone and too frequent bla, bla, bla talk, I would have subscribed
His information is also not 100% correct, so that tone is REALLY douchy. Eg. "You can't use Dual Rank DIMMs in dual channel" 100% incorrect. Particularly if you have a board that has only 2 DIMM slots, essentially 2 Paired Dual Rank DIMMs in a 2 DIMM board runs the same as 2 sets of 2 paired Single Rank DIMMs (4 DIMMs) in a 4-Slot board. If you have 4 Dual Rank DIMMs you CAN run them, but they'll perform the same as 4 Single Rank DIMMs. There's a SUPER SLIGHT difference but it is not perceptible even to The Flash
@@LostOnTheLine 2 dual ranked sticks in a single channel is recognized as quadranked by the controller. It's usually rather pointless doing that with 4 sticks since your frequency just goes down the drain.
@@TheDude50447 True, ranks make a small difference that most won't notice but if you are running with 2 sticks per channel (2 in A & 2 in B for 4 in Dual-Channel) single rank gives slightly better performance. But that gets flipped if you are only running with 2 DIMMs. 2 dual-rank sticks running in Dual-Channel will give a slight performance boost (all other things being equal) than 2 single-rank sticks. I always tell people the differences are small enough that nobody is going to notice it, but the difference is there. For Single-Channel they say a single dual-rank stick performs like 2 single-rank sticks but that I feel is less accurate performance-wise though it may be true in a technical sense
One good reason to go with an asymmetric memory configuration: you're on a laptop and they soldered one of your memory sticks right onto the motherboard.
@@LinkStorm13 yes! Same for the SSD: one soldered in, one M.2 slot. For me that's already a plus though tbh. I'm used to laptops of this form factor soldering everything into place, so to have _some_ ability to tinker with your hardware makes me happy =D
i love these type of videos, get an opportunity to learn more ,guess that why it is said "He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever." Keep making such videos they really help a lot.
How do you know so much about this stuff? Do you have a electrical engineering degree? A computer hardware degree? Just want to know how you know so much
I have a bachelor in electronics, and I can say that I learn a lot from these video's (this is no standard learning material). When a topic interests you, you can learn about it online these days. If you have enough passion for a subject there's no-one stopping you from learning it. And Buildzoid is doing just that.
@@ftn5546 More like very knowledgable about typical electrical engineer work, not just "pc technology." As an aspiring EE, I can say with 100% fact that he DOES have the knowledge of an electrical enginner.
Thank you very much! This was very helpful - my laptop had 4gb soldered and one 4gb stick. I kept hitting the page file, and was worried about mismatched sticks. Got a 16gb stick to swap it out, and I've had no noticible performance loss.
I will be timestamping useful parts of this video for my personal use, but you guys can take advantage of them as well 0:38 Memory Channel Explanation Start (Mentions the difference between a connector and a connection) 1:16 Visualization of channels/more explanation Important Distinction - This video will not be reviewing memory topology, seeing as Buildzoid already made a Faulk video addressing that. 2:27 Maximum theoretical memory bandwidth of memory channels (inc. formula)
From what I understand: 2 slots with dual rank. Reason: the distance (signal runtime) is identical between the 2 ranks. He touched on in another video (maybe topology video, maybe x570 board review) that for 2 sticks, daisy chain topology is better for overclocking, while for 4 sticks T-Topology is better because T-Topology has the same length to all the sticks while daisy chain doesn't. disclaimer: if i remember correctly. i watched that a year ago.
From what I understand all 4 slots in single rank would technically make it dual rand per channel. But if u are saying like 4, 8 GB sticks compared to 2 16 GB sticks both running dual channel the other would slightly be better one because the Signal doesn’t have to go farther and 2 u would still have upgradable and theoretically 2 sticks OC’s better than 4 sticks
I've seen 3% to 15% performance increase from single to dual rank because of interleaving. Latencies can affect how much of a benefit can be had, obviously.
Finally a good explanation. My 8+8 dual rank (both) run well with 4 +4 single rank (both). But my current setup only allows them to run at 2666 mt/s at most.
No one: The Verge: Look, our PC is so fast it doesn't even need dual channel configuration! We even needed to LIMIT fps in game so the PC doesn't explode!
hey Buildzoid! I have a very weird scenario and would love some help deciding if I should return a new kit. I basically got a Micron 32GB 2x16GB 3600 cl18 kit that was the exact same model in the shop page as the one I had already, but this ended up being a different _submodel_ with not only different rank (dual vs single on the old) , but also different PCB (samsung B2 vs Hynix A2), rev E vs rev B (micron), 17nm vs 19nm, different row addresses... the works. The JEDEC tables es also slightly different, but XMP profiles are the same, and so are voltages and whatnot. My issue is these 2 kits, which are installed paired in the two respective channels of my Mortar Max B450 (3800X on it), have trouble booting with XMP. I can only consistently boot them consistently after multiple attempts of resetting BIOS, going from 2400 (JEDEX) to XMP but also manually setting RAM frequency in advanced to 3600. I also managed to use XMP then manually set 3200. It does seem to stay consistent after it boots to OS once, but I fear I may have trouble in the long run. I also did not do a thorough memtest on the 64GB setup, but I've had no freezes or restarts the week I owned it. My question here is if I should be returning these (shop provides a month) and look for the exact same submodel kit. The new stick was 40 euro cheaper than the old one from 1y ago, so I guess I learned my lesson. I also know I should not be getting 64GB over 2 kits and sell my current kit instead to get a 64GB kit, but I don't need absolute performance, I just happen to have a use case where I need 64GB for virtual machines building Chrome and Android and whatnot.
Addressing your question (at about 23:12) regarding 8-bit wide vs. 16-bit wide DRAM chips: most desktop DIMMs use 8-bit wide chips because they are cheaper - i.e., you can buy two 8-bit wide DRAM chips for the same money as a SINGLE 16-bit wide chip of the same capacity, and have twice as many chips to bin from! Also, it's far easier to get good 8-bit wide DRAMs because of yields; there are far more defects in 16-bit wide high-density DRAM runs.
great, my laptop has exactly 12gb of memory. I thought that was weird. So if I am understanding this correctly, if I have a dual channel Ryzen 9 3900x and I want 32gb of memory, while it would be more efficient to have a 4x8gb configuration I would have better performance due to higher possible clock speed using a 2x16gb configuration, filling only 2 ranks. If I end up needing more capacity (I am a gamer who is also a programmer) I could add another 2x16gb later and fill up all 4 ranks but I would likely have to drop the clock speed. Great, now I just need to know if I should target B die or CJR (looking at the gskill neo's at 3600 mts. Shooting for 3700-3800 mts, but I don't know how well CJR does. I hear it is good for clock speed, but the timings suffer and that B die is so much more expensive. Memory makes my brain hurt :/ Thanks for the breakdown, this was helpful.
I'm in the 48gb camp. Got 4 sticks of 4GB Adata XPG Gammix D10 2400mhz (AX4U2400W4G16-DBG) in July 2018 for 164 USD when memory was insane stupid expensive. In July 2019 Newegg was having a sale on 8GB OLOy 2400mhz (MD4U082417IFDA) so I picked up 4 sticks of that for 90 USD. Nearly half the price for double the capacity just a year later. I really got bent over in 2018. Anyway, I run all 8 sticks in my X99 Taichi with 6800k at 4.2ghz 1.275V and have overclocked the RAM slightly to 16 16 16 36 timings.
pagefile is something not a single tech "guru" talks about it's just "more memory can"t speed up your pc" BS finally a voice of reason that sees the problem with pagefile
on my 3200 c14-14-14-31 dark pro b-die, setting manual timings for everything while running xmp clocks and primaries on my 6700K, I can get an effective bandwidth of 96% on reads and 97% on writes of theoretical max bandwdith, getting 49.1gb/s for read, and 49.7 for writes, theoretical being 51200mb/s
@@resune I asked cause that may not be reliable. I get 49.6GB/s read, 48.6GB/s write on Aida with 2700x + G.Skill Trident Black 3200C15 @ 3133 c14-14-14-28 (all manual, my 2700x hates C15 and C16 as well as anything above 3400MHz, where x470 gaming 5 also has an issue) but other tests show more like 46.6-46.8 read, i/e UserBenchmark test. Latency is more consistent, 63.6-65.7 on Aida, 63.0-64.4 (clustering at around 63.4) on other tests. Now, if we get the same/similar results in same test, that is a good reference to compare performance. What's your latency, something around 48ns? That should be easy with Intel. [edit] my Trident Black is low bin b-die
very informative video as usual ! thanks for taking your time to share the knowledge :) Got a question... why not making an overclocking video on those 3600 cl17 kit " b-die " on Ryzen cpu? im really interested to see how it will perform
I'm one of the weirdos running 3x3 ranks (64GB 3600MTs) on z590 (11700K). I actually tried to buy 4 dual rank sticks, but the retailer sent me one kit of single rank and one kit of dual rank, even though I ordered two kits of the same SKU... Weird.
Hello and thank you for very helpful video! Question i have is Do you prefer with AM4 and daisy chain 2x16Gb dimm's 2R OR 4x8Gb dimm's 1R? Is there any noticeable difference like in overclocking?
Can I cut a memory stick in two and use each half on a memory channel? I have a pretty neat Xacto. Now seriously. Can you dive more on those more obscure settings such as Interleaving and BankgroupSwap? I have a 64GB 4 dimm kit (TridentZ Neo 3600 CL16) running at 3733 CL16 and I wonder what else can I do to improve it. My timings are already as tight as I could set them. Also would be good to know which parameters are the preferred ones (besides primary) to further lower latency. So far I know primary, tRCT and TRFC are good candidates.
Your audio glitch at 2:19 was tripping me out, I had to triple-check to make sure it wasn't me. I imagine you put that in there just to mess with us 'cause no way you're having audio latency dropouts.
inb4 ram manufacturers add a second connector-"leg" to a single DIMM so that it has twice the connectors and plugs into two DIMM slots (because reasons of course)
Has anybody gotten their hands on the new 3000 or 3200 Ballistix kit that's replacing the old AES kit? Is it a good overclocker like the AES kit? Here's the part number BL2K8G30C15U4B
show off!! I purchased a 5900x....well I purchased a piece of paper saying that I have bought one. Didn't realise until I saw the order confirmation that it was for a preorder! Still looking at a week until stock comes back in apparently :-(. Congrats on the quick trigger finger lol.
You have no Idea how useful this is to me, I'm focused more in the server part which is a shame that you didn't talk about, but nevertheless this was great. Maybe a little more examples on the rank side would have been good but I can already clear my doubts by myself
So do I have this right, when a motherboard says 1DPC 1R that means that I can only put 1 stick in each channel, thus NOT being able to fill out all 4 DIMM slots?
Ey man maybe its a stupid questions but I have a doubt with my motherboard is an Rog maximus apex and it have two dimms slots and it have like a third dimm slot looks like an slot of ddr3 to install 2 extra m. 2 disks. Im planing to equip It with 2x16 dual ranks gskill. My question is if this slot for the m.2 disks is controlled by my memory chanells if I Will loose max frecuency or bandwith or something..
Because some of us actually like to hear you ramble. That is why you had to make this video. lol. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I like that you don't edit your videos. Makes me feel like I'm right there just hanging out there with you.
Based on the video, i think both those configurations are dual channel quad rank so the bandwidth and efficiency will be essentially the same given that the clock speeds are timings are comparable between both kits. With the 2x16 though, you can upgrade your capacity in the future. You just wont be getting any additional efficiency benefits as you're already at quad rank Edit: I just realized rank is per channel at 24:10 so 4 single rank sticks is still just dual rank per channel where as 2 dual rank 16gb sticks allow for 4 ranks in a single channel
4 ranks over two channels is what they say is good. So 4 x single rank sticks would be 4 ranks over 2 channels. 2 x dual rank stick would be the same as long as you put on in each channel. 1st and 3rd slots or 2nd and 4th slots.
I've heard that non-k intel cpu memory controllers have sorta locked voltage so OC is not that great, then does it mean that dual rank memory is better than 1rank with something like 12400 even if you're overclocking?
Hello, may I please ask you a hybrid (stupid and tricky at the same time) question?: I am looking forward to buy a Thinkpad T14 Gen 3 with i7-1260p, dGPU MX550 and 16GB 3200 RAM soldered to the motherboard. This laptop model also provides one empty DIMM slot for the dual channel capability. I want to add another 16GB RAM into it. Given that Gen 3 (as Gen 2 and Gen 1) comes with single Rank soldered memory, which RAM stick should I go for: 1Rx8 or 2Rx8? Like, what would be a better solution: 1) M471A2K43DB1-CWE 16GB 2Rx8 PC4-3200AA SE2 11 (or xxxEB1-CWE) ((I couldn't find any info about the difference between D and E dies)) 2) M471A2G43BB2-CWE 16BG 1Rx8 PC4-3200AA SA2 11 The first one is dual rank which is probably better in terms of utilizing capacity, but is it neccesary concidering soldered memory is single rank? Or maybe the second one is better because of B die and retaining the clock speed? Lenovo support could't provide me any useful information, their website have both types (1Rx8 and 2Rx8) memories available as alternatives. Thank you in advance for your time answering my question and looking forward to get the right answer :)
Riddle me this: I have an i-7 laptop with 2, 16 GB so-dimms of dual rank DDR4-3200. (As per CPU-Z) The RAM works in Dual Channel. I have an i-5 laptop with 2 unequal so-dimms. 4 GB DDR4-3200 is soldered on the motherboard. And there is a 16 GB DDR4-3200 single rank so-dimm in the only RAM slot. Does this laptop run in "partial" dual channel, (up to "matching" the 4 GB on the board?) And then use the remaining 12 GB (of 20 GB) as Single Channel? How DOES that work? BTW Windows Task Manager says I am only using 25% of available memory. But it also shows a lower clock speed than 3200. Cheers!
Is dual rank or single rank better for 16gb ram (Should I use 4 x4gb sticks or 2 x8gb). The dual rank has the double the access via DIMM slots. Meaning each stick can use the full bandwidth of a single lane. Use the four by four GB sticks. ez enough Unless you are chasing high frequency
what i am trying to figure out is the memory purchase for my next build... everytime ive wasted money on higher "mhz" than i needed. i am trying to avoid this... i am planning on purchasing the 7950x3d sometime after release so i am looking at the 7950x specs... it says it supports 5200 2x2R w/ two sticks... and 3600 4x2R w/ 4 sticks... which in my consuming eyes looks like 64gb of 5200 vs 128gb of 3600... however there is no DDR5 @ 3600... therefore i am confused AF. anyone got answers or advice for me? should i just buy 4 sticks of 5200?
Higher ranks wouldn't reduce effective speed instead of the max? For example if i have a 1 rank dimm that can theoretically go up to 4k mhz but working at 3200 mhz in one slot, if i add another one in the same channel it will be 2 ranks so they will work at < 3200 mhz.
The only thing missing from this video is: Why is multi rank bad for frequency? I'm wondering if it is because of the different length/runtime between the ranks, but then using dual rank sticks would not be impacted ? And if so, same for T-Topology? Would love to understand the relation of ranks to overclocking.
Thanks for the explanation. Since I didn't understand it well, I had been wondering if you could run one of those DC DIMMs on an X99 ITX to take advantage of all 4 memory channels across the 2 connectors it has (sort of like how you can run two PCIe cards on one connector with bifurcation). This video has answered that question.
i am using hp zbook 17 g3 with 4 ram slot and Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1535M v5. can i mix RAMs of different bandwith. currently i am having 20gb RAM (8gb 2400T, 8gb 2133P and 4gb 2400T all being 1Rx8). can i add 16gb 2Rx8 2666v? all memorys are DDR4. when i checked my CPU memory support on intel page i see; DDR4-2133, LPDDR3-1866, DDR3L-1600
I have a 2700x with a x470 taichi. I started with an old vengeance 2x8 gb b-die v4.21 (3200mhz cl 16 rated) on it (from 3 years ago), never went over 12gb usage but wanted to populate all the 4 slots for the t-top configuration of the mobo (not daisy chain). Found 2x4gb vengeance (3000mhz cl15 rated) used for 40€ and put them on the config. As you said no problems here with 24gb, I even managed to go down from 3000mhz cl15 to cl14-14-14-14-28 T1, that I couldn't do with only 2 sticks, t-top magic I guess. Ps the memory controller on my cpu sucks, I can't manage any type of ram at 3200 without stability issues (it boots, too many errors on memtest even boosting voltage and cl)
might be a silly question: going from 2 to 4 sticks would require reducing clock (4400 -> 4000mhz), does that apply for slower speed sticks too (i.e. with 2*8gb 3600, adding another 2 sticks, won't run 4*gb 3600 and require reducing clock to i.e. 3200)?
Still learning. But probably yes. But then agen if the expected limiting factor is cheap ram? Ho said that the cheap ram can not actually run 2*8gb 4000? And so effectively 4*8gb 3600 ends up working? But it is quite a tall order for the 4 sticks to all have the headroom. Or maybe it actually is not the ram sticks that forces higher clock speed sticks from running slower. But instead the CPU memory controller hitting a limit and so the cheap ram left room for the controller to take 4 sticks instead of 2 running at a high clock and tight timings. Like really adding extra sticks do not really makes sense to be bothering the other sticks. It is far more likely down to the motherboard or CPU memory controller. No? Really no really now it is best to not tempt pain and try and a single buy kit ones instead of combining multiple.
re: APU and memory bw: on the distributed computing project World Community Grid, i had about the same points per day (PPD) with 1x2400 stick vs 2x2400 stick. or no worse than 10% slower on a 2400G. running a GPU project along side it was 20-30% fewer PPD, tho. also, on my Threadripper 1950X, there was little to no difference between dual and quad channel or again no more than 10% fewer PPD. basically, you couldn't see the difference on a spreadsheet.
So now I wonder- if there's such a massive performance improvement going from 1 channel to 2 channel, why isn't higher channel support there for more common consumer chips (like Ryzen 5, 7, intel i5, i7, etc running quad channel)
So dual rank configurations are good for AM4 because memory overclocking isn’t really a thing on AM4? Or because you don’t want to overclock past your fclk? But what if your fclocks can go higher than your memory stock speed? Would dual rank memory config hold back your clock speeds? Does all this really matter to those who want to extremely overclock their memory past it’s rated speed?
X4 memory sticks do work on LGA1151 but the iGPU will be very unhappy if you run them. There are modded sticks that are 1Rx4, they are ok TBH, especially the ones with Samsung B or C-Die, they OC to 3733 albeit with loose timings.
Came back to this video to refresh my memory and about the comment on CPUs with single channel DDR4 memory controllers, they exist in laptops, AMDs Stoney Ridge laptop CPUs can only use single channel DDR4
Lol, that intro flame was predictable for the regular viewers but it good he makes another video about it. Doesn't hurt to answer questions (mildly sincere)
I need someone to teach me about downclocking high speed kits say one has a mobo rated for 3200MT/s and looking to buy ram, prices of the kits are negligible. kit1: 3200 CL14 kit2: 4400 CL19 what are the chances the 4400 kit will get close to the 3200 timings when downclocked to 3200?
Running 24gb on Ryzen 3000 4-8-4-8 or 8-4-8-4??? Identical samsung single rank b and d?-die, xmp's are the same. Any idea? Thanks. These are 3600CL18 sticks, R5 3600 can only run 4 of the stable @3000, i have 3950X on the way, hoping it will have better IMC so can run at XMP..
Frequency is like mph, it is continuous. The markers like 3200 or 4133 are arbitrary like speed limits of 30 or 45. The physical speed will just be 1600 or 2066.5 plus or minus the accuracy of the clock (a few percent)
I was thinking hard about what stupid question to asked that you answered before and I finally got something so here we go: Should we buy a 2x16gb memory for Ryzen or 4x8gb. And thanks for the video ;-)
1: make sure the memory is single rank. 2: 2x16 would be better in this situation since you get the same capacity in fewer DIMMs, which means you can fit more memory down the line if you need it. This satisfies the priority for capacity, and you have your dual channel for maximum bandwidth.
Kinda depends on your goals. If you buy relatively high spec 2x16 or 4x8 they will both end up dual rank and then the main difference in overclocking comes down to which ICs you go for.
You realize that some of the people asking the "stupid questions" might just be kids, right? A lot of them are into building their own PCs these days. Asking questions out of ignorance is as normal for them as it is for anyone else. Unless someone was trolling you, they were probably just ignorant (and trying to cure that) rather than deserving of insults. Also: Thanks very much for the detailed info of (and enthusiasm for) the MSI Unify and Mortar Max. These are both excellent boards, and your shared knowledge helped me decide on them. Much appreciated.
Insulting someone, even a kid, shouldn't hurt them. A thicker skin isn't a bad thing to have, and anyone with a thick skin should take the supposed insult for what it is, banter, and learn from that in itself.
@AHOC please help me Biuldzoid ... I ordered G.Skill 8x4 CL14 F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR alongside with X570-E Gaming from Asus. Please tell me that will it run at 3600 @CL16 or not? . ( CPU is 3950x ) thanks for the video.
"As the channel gets more popular, the questions keep getting stupider"
I feel your pain.
Ha...
If i was braver I’d also be asking stupider questions tho...
@@HardOCPTV no more videos?
The folks who just show up have zero frame of reference of how Buildzoid creates content.Perhaps a short series on Overclocking basics to point new channel viewers toward . This would put us on the same pages roughly. Not everyone understands how the power gets from A-B.
@@tobiwonkanogy2975 yea ive said that to him for awhile through comments, maybe theres another youtuber that does it better, but i'd love to hear it from the classic bz ramblin way.
I'm one of the "stupider" viewers, and I'm fine with that. It's why I watch your videos, so I can learn. Thanks for all you do!!
Everyone starts stupid.
agree, I wish he would kill the elitus tone/attitude. If not for the douche-baggary insulting tone and too frequent bla, bla, bla talk, I would have subscribed
His information is also not 100% correct, so that tone is REALLY douchy.
Eg. "You can't use Dual Rank DIMMs in dual channel" 100% incorrect. Particularly if you have a board that has only 2 DIMM slots, essentially 2 Paired Dual Rank DIMMs in a 2 DIMM board runs the same as 2 sets of 2 paired Single Rank DIMMs (4 DIMMs) in a 4-Slot board. If you have 4 Dual Rank DIMMs you CAN run them, but they'll perform the same as 4 Single Rank DIMMs. There's a SUPER SLIGHT difference but it is not perceptible even to The Flash
@@LostOnTheLine 2 dual ranked sticks in a single channel is recognized as quadranked by the controller. It's usually rather pointless doing that with 4 sticks since your frequency just goes down the drain.
@@TheDude50447 True, ranks make a small difference that most won't notice but if you are running with 2 sticks per channel (2 in A & 2 in B for 4 in Dual-Channel) single rank gives slightly better performance. But that gets flipped if you are only running with 2 DIMMs. 2 dual-rank sticks running in Dual-Channel will give a slight performance boost (all other things being equal) than 2 single-rank sticks. I always tell people the differences are small enough that nobody is going to notice it, but the difference is there. For Single-Channel they say a single dual-rank stick performs like 2 single-rank sticks but that I feel is less accurate performance-wise though it may be true in a technical sense
One good reason to go with an asymmetric memory configuration: you're on a laptop and they soldered one of your memory sticks right onto the motherboard.
just one?
And the other one is freely acessable? That seems very odd, but I guess laptops are just like this sometimes
@@LinkStorm13 yes! Same for the SSD: one soldered in, one M.2 slot. For me that's already a plus though tbh. I'm used to laptops of this form factor soldering everything into place, so to have _some_ ability to tinker with your hardware makes me happy =D
@@LinkStorm13 yeah lots of thin and lights that wanna say they're upgradeable do that. Esp business targeted ones.
@@tarfeef_4268 I feel like they do that to make laptops obsolete more quickly, if the soldered RAM dies you throw the laptop in the trash.
@@countach27 can't you just, remove the solder, change sticks, and re-apply some new solder?
7:18 Intel glued together two lga3647 xeons and that has 12 memory channels. Its called Xeon 9200 but nearly nobody uses it.
"can I ask a question?"
"yes, thanks for confirming there are more stupid question on this channel"
;-)
Hope more people come back to watch this video. With all the current talk about memory ranks, this video would help a LOT of people.
That whole opening made me LOL. And I didn't think buildzoid could get any better 🤣
I just watched a man take an entire minute to say the words "about 90%".
Finally someone who doesnt confuse pagefile with pagetable :)
that made me happy, thanks
People do that?
ignorance != stupidity
Ignorance = not knowing something
Stupidity = being unable to know something
You should make a whole series about how cpu works in a very detailed manner !
i love these type of videos, get an opportunity to learn more ,guess that why it is said "He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever." Keep making such videos they really help a lot.
Educational, concise and down to the point. You Sir helped me make an informed decision with my hardware purchase. Thank you very, very much.
How do you know so much about this stuff? Do you have a electrical engineering degree? A computer hardware degree? Just want to know how you know so much
He's Tech Jesus' Brother.
I have a bachelor in electronics, and I can say that I learn a lot from these video's (this is no standard learning material). When a topic interests you, you can learn about it online these days. If you have enough passion for a subject there's no-one stopping you from learning it. And Buildzoid is doing just that.
A lot of passion and interest and curiosity can get you very far into looking into things very deeply.
He is not an engineer; he's just very knowledgeable about PC technology.
@@ftn5546 More like very knowledgable about typical electrical engineer work, not just "pc technology." As an aspiring EE, I can say with 100% fact that he DOES have the knowledge of an electrical enginner.
Thank you very much! This was very helpful - my laptop had 4gb soldered and one 4gb stick. I kept hitting the page file, and was worried about mismatched sticks. Got a 16gb stick to swap it out, and I've had no noticible performance loss.
u see a 40min video.... I see the next 5 days of good sleeping :D
And every evening you learn something New.
You're the man! I'm learning so much by just watching your channel. Before too long I'll be a computer scientist lol. Thanks for all you do, my dude
I will be timestamping useful parts of this video for my personal use, but you guys can take advantage of them as well
0:38 Memory Channel Explanation Start (Mentions the difference between a connector and a connection)
1:16 Visualization of channels/more explanation
Important Distinction - This video will not be reviewing memory topology, seeing as Buildzoid already made a Faulk video addressing that.
2:27 Maximum theoretical memory bandwidth of memory channels (inc. formula)
so what better: all four slots with single ranks, or 2 slots with dual ranks?
From what I understand: 2 slots with dual rank.
Reason: the distance (signal runtime) is identical between the 2 ranks.
He touched on in another video (maybe topology video, maybe x570 board review) that for 2 sticks, daisy chain topology is better for overclocking, while for 4 sticks T-Topology is better because T-Topology has the same length to all the sticks while daisy chain doesn't.
disclaimer: if i remember correctly. i watched that a year ago.
From what I understand all 4 slots in single rank would technically make it dual rand per channel. But if u are saying like 4, 8 GB sticks compared to 2 16 GB sticks both running dual channel the other would slightly be better one because the Signal doesn’t have to go farther and 2 u would still have upgradable and theoretically 2 sticks OC’s better than 4 sticks
Love the round up/conclusion at the last 5 minutes. Great video.
Great video! Thank you, was particularly interested in how the ranks sat together.
I've seen 3% to 15% performance increase from single to dual rank because of interleaving. Latencies can affect how much of a benefit can be had, obviously.
perfect explanation, thank you. also a perfect refresher to watch on 2x playback
Finally a good explanation. My 8+8 dual rank (both) run well with 4 +4 single rank (both). But my current setup only allows them to run at 2666 mt/s at most.
No one:
The Verge: Look, our PC is so fast it doesn't even need dual channel configuration!
We even needed to LIMIT fps in game so the PC doesn't explode!
FIRST
very funny
Nice.
Nice
again????
wow, you are really fast.
@@willgart1 yes, its very impressive
hey Buildzoid! I have a very weird scenario and would love some help deciding if I should return a new kit. I basically got a Micron 32GB 2x16GB 3600 cl18 kit that was the exact same model in the shop page as the one I had already, but this ended up being a different _submodel_ with not only different rank (dual vs single on the old) , but also different PCB (samsung B2 vs Hynix A2), rev E vs rev B (micron), 17nm vs 19nm, different row addresses... the works. The JEDEC tables es also slightly different, but XMP profiles are the same, and so are voltages and whatnot.
My issue is these 2 kits, which are installed paired in the two respective channels of my Mortar Max B450 (3800X on it), have trouble booting with XMP. I can only consistently boot them consistently after multiple attempts of resetting BIOS, going from 2400 (JEDEX) to XMP but also manually setting RAM frequency in advanced to 3600. I also managed to use XMP then manually set 3200. It does seem to stay consistent after it boots to OS once, but I fear I may have trouble in the long run. I also did not do a thorough memtest on the 64GB setup, but I've had no freezes or restarts the week I owned it.
My question here is if I should be returning these (shop provides a month) and look for the exact same submodel kit. The new stick was 40 euro cheaper than the old one from 1y ago, so I guess I learned my lesson. I also know I should not be getting 64GB over 2 kits and sell my current kit instead to get a 64GB kit, but I don't need absolute performance, I just happen to have a use case where I need 64GB for virtual machines building Chrome and Android and whatnot.
Addressing your question (at about 23:12) regarding 8-bit wide vs. 16-bit wide DRAM chips: most desktop DIMMs use 8-bit wide chips because they are cheaper - i.e., you can buy two 8-bit wide DRAM chips for the same money as a SINGLE 16-bit wide chip of the same capacity, and have twice as many chips to bin from!
Also, it's far easier to get good 8-bit wide DRAMs because of yields; there are far more defects in 16-bit wide high-density DRAM runs.
Intro and ending made me cry :D
and the whole in the middle..made me recap everything
Thanks BZ !
great, my laptop has exactly 12gb of memory. I thought that was weird. So if I am understanding this correctly, if I have a dual channel Ryzen 9 3900x and I want 32gb of memory, while it would be more efficient to have a 4x8gb configuration I would have better performance due to higher possible clock speed using a 2x16gb configuration, filling only 2 ranks. If I end up needing more capacity (I am a gamer who is also a programmer) I could add another 2x16gb later and fill up all 4 ranks but I would likely have to drop the clock speed.
Great, now I just need to know if I should target B die or CJR (looking at the gskill neo's at 3600 mts. Shooting for 3700-3800 mts, but I don't know how well CJR does. I hear it is good for clock speed, but the timings suffer and that B die is so much more expensive. Memory makes my brain hurt :/
Thanks for the breakdown, this was helpful.
I'm in the 48gb camp. Got 4 sticks of 4GB Adata XPG Gammix D10 2400mhz (AX4U2400W4G16-DBG) in July 2018 for 164 USD when memory was insane stupid expensive. In July 2019 Newegg was having a sale on 8GB OLOy 2400mhz (MD4U082417IFDA) so I picked up 4 sticks of that for 90 USD. Nearly half the price for double the capacity just a year later. I really got bent over in 2018.
Anyway, I run all 8 sticks in my X99 Taichi with 6800k at 4.2ghz 1.275V and have overclocked the RAM slightly to 16 16 16 36 timings.
pagefile is something not a single tech "guru" talks about
it's just "more memory can"t speed up your pc" BS
finally a voice of reason that sees the problem with pagefile
on my 3200 c14-14-14-31 dark pro b-die, setting manual timings for everything while running xmp clocks and primaries on my 6700K, I can get an effective bandwidth of 96% on reads and 97% on writes of theoretical max bandwdith, getting 49.1gb/s for read, and 49.7 for writes, theoretical being 51200mb/s
Which test?
@@milllosh aida64
@@resune I asked cause that may not be reliable. I get 49.6GB/s read, 48.6GB/s write on Aida with 2700x + G.Skill Trident Black 3200C15 @ 3133 c14-14-14-28 (all manual, my 2700x hates C15 and C16 as well as anything above 3400MHz, where x470 gaming 5 also has an issue) but other tests show more like 46.6-46.8 read, i/e UserBenchmark test. Latency is more consistent, 63.6-65.7 on Aida, 63.0-64.4 (clustering at around 63.4) on other tests. Now, if we get the same/similar results in same test, that is a good reference to compare performance. What's your latency, something around 48ns? That should be easy with Intel.
[edit] my Trident Black is low bin b-die
You explain things much better than Wikipedia ever does, so keep making videos like these
Ok you have to choose wisely: AdoredTV 50 min. Video or Buildzoid 40 min. Video, oh boy...
XD
I love learning from your "Rambling" videos.
very informative video as usual ! thanks for taking your time to share the knowledge :)
Got a question... why not making an overclocking video on those 3600 cl17 kit " b-die " on Ryzen cpu? im really interested to see how it will perform
I'm one of the weirdos running 3x3 ranks (64GB 3600MTs) on z590 (11700K). I actually tried to buy 4 dual rank sticks, but the retailer sent me one kit of single rank and one kit of dual rank, even though I ordered two kits of the same SKU... Weird.
Hello and thank you for very helpful video! Question i have is Do you prefer with AM4 and daisy chain 2x16Gb dimm's 2R OR 4x8Gb dimm's 1R? Is there any noticeable difference like in overclocking?
0:30 angry mood intensifies
@@Nicholas_Steel I think he means Bz and interprets his voice
I guess.
Can I cut a memory stick in two and use each half on a memory channel? I have a pretty neat Xacto.
Now seriously. Can you dive more on those more obscure settings such as Interleaving and BankgroupSwap? I have a 64GB 4 dimm kit (TridentZ Neo 3600 CL16) running at 3733 CL16 and I wonder what else can I do to improve it. My timings are already as tight as I could set them.
Also would be good to know which parameters are the preferred ones (besides primary) to further lower latency. So far I know primary, tRCT and TRFC are good candidates.
Before I was using a workstation board with 128GB ddr4, I used to run 2x8 with 2x4 ddr3 on my old AMD system. Worked no problem.
Your audio glitch at 2:19 was tripping me out, I had to triple-check to make sure it wasn't me. I imagine you put that in there just to mess with us 'cause no way you're having audio latency dropouts.
inb4 ram manufacturers add a second connector-"leg" to a single DIMM so that it has twice the connectors and plugs into two DIMM slots (because reasons of course)
aprox. 10% diference between 1R to 2R, according to the benchmarks. and 30%~60% from X16 to X8
Has anybody gotten their hands on the new 3000 or 3200 Ballistix kit that's replacing the old AES kit? Is it a good overclocker like the AES kit?
Here's the part number BL2K8G30C15U4B
This is Only 40 mins long? Where's the other 20 mins? I feel short changed.
I just come over this searching for ram for my ryzen gen 3. Very helpful. Thanks a bunch!
show off!! I purchased a 5900x....well I purchased a piece of paper saying that I have bought one. Didn't realise until I saw the order confirmation that it was for a preorder! Still looking at a week until stock comes back in apparently :-(. Congrats on the quick trigger finger lol.
Well I was looking at info for Dual Rank and it's was a great explanation. I'm sure better then Wikipedia. Good job
Excellent video, thanks for posting
You have no Idea how useful this is to me, I'm focused more in the server part which is a shame that you didn't talk about, but nevertheless this was great. Maybe a little more examples on the rank side would have been good but I can already clear my doubts by myself
So do I have this right, when a motherboard says 1DPC 1R that means that I can only put 1 stick in each channel, thus NOT being able to fill out all 4 DIMM slots?
You said there you have done a video on "memory topology" in the past. Where is that video ??
Ey man maybe its a stupid questions but I have a doubt with my motherboard is an Rog maximus apex and it have two dimms slots and it have like a third dimm slot looks like an slot of ddr3 to install 2 extra m. 2 disks. Im planing to equip It with 2x16 dual ranks gskill. My question is if this slot for the m.2 disks is controlled by my memory chanells if I Will loose max frecuency or bandwith or something..
love a nice long Rambling video, GOLD.
time to grab a coffee and sit down.
I feel like I learn so much and nothing at all but I am compelled to binge
Oh that s a good explain man !!🎸🤸🏼♀️
Because some of us actually like to hear you ramble. That is why you had to make this video. lol. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I like that you don't edit your videos. Makes me feel like I'm right there just hanging out there with you.
"As the channel gets more popular, the questions keep getting stupider"
That's it - it took me a whole thirty seconds before I hit the like button.
So apparently zen 3 is one of those "weird cases" and now I'm still unsure, is it better to get 2x 16gb dual rank, or 4x 8gb single rank for zen3?
Based on the video, i think both those configurations are dual channel quad rank so the bandwidth and efficiency will be essentially the same given that the clock speeds are timings are comparable between both kits. With the 2x16 though, you can upgrade your capacity in the future. You just wont be getting any additional efficiency benefits as you're already at quad rank Edit: I just realized rank is per channel at 24:10 so 4 single rank sticks is still just dual rank per channel where as 2 dual rank 16gb sticks allow for 4 ranks in a single channel
4 ranks over two channels is what they say is good. So 4 x single rank sticks would be 4 ranks over 2 channels. 2 x dual rank stick would be the same as long as you put on in each channel. 1st and 3rd slots or 2nd and 4th slots.
I've heard that non-k intel cpu memory controllers have sorta locked voltage so OC is not that great, then does it mean that dual rank memory is better than 1rank with something like 12400 even if you're overclocking?
hmm not sure about my purchase of two 32gb sticks for my x570 board now, sounds like doing 4 8gb sticks would have been better
If you NEED 64GB you will NEED 128GB in the near future.
2x32 = 64, 4x8 = 32..
Hello, may I please ask you a hybrid (stupid and tricky at the same time) question?:
I am looking forward to buy a Thinkpad T14 Gen 3 with i7-1260p, dGPU MX550 and 16GB 3200 RAM soldered to the motherboard. This laptop model also provides one empty DIMM slot for the dual channel capability. I want to add another 16GB RAM into it. Given that Gen 3 (as Gen 2 and Gen 1) comes with single Rank soldered memory, which RAM stick should I go for: 1Rx8 or 2Rx8?
Like, what would be a better solution:
1) M471A2K43DB1-CWE 16GB 2Rx8 PC4-3200AA SE2 11 (or xxxEB1-CWE) ((I couldn't find any info about the difference between D and E dies))
2) M471A2G43BB2-CWE 16BG 1Rx8 PC4-3200AA SA2 11
The first one is dual rank which is probably better in terms of utilizing capacity, but is it neccesary concidering soldered memory is single rank?
Or maybe the second one is better because of B die and retaining the clock speed?
Lenovo support could't provide me any useful information, their website have both types (1Rx8 and 2Rx8) memories available as alternatives.
Thank you in advance for your time answering my question and looking forward to get the right answer :)
BZ in 2020: "ECC is servers"
JEDEC in 2021/2022: "SAY NO MORE"
(DDR5 is getting ECC)
Riddle me this:
I have an i-7 laptop with 2, 16 GB so-dimms of dual rank DDR4-3200.
(As per CPU-Z) The RAM works in Dual Channel.
I have an i-5 laptop with 2 unequal so-dimms. 4 GB DDR4-3200 is soldered on the motherboard. And there is a 16 GB DDR4-3200 single rank so-dimm in the only RAM slot. Does this laptop run in "partial" dual channel, (up to "matching" the 4 GB on the board?) And then use the remaining 12 GB (of 20 GB) as Single Channel? How DOES that work?
BTW Windows Task Manager says I am only using 25% of available memory. But it also shows a lower clock speed than 3200. Cheers!
Is dual rank or single rank better for 16gb ram (Should I use 4 x4gb sticks or 2 x8gb). The dual rank has the double the access via DIMM slots. Meaning each stick can use the full bandwidth of a single lane. Use the four by four GB sticks. ez enough Unless you are chasing high frequency
A single-rank DIMM to each slot is ideal.
2x8gb single rank, each in its own channel.
what i am trying to figure out is the memory purchase for my next build... everytime ive wasted money on higher "mhz" than i needed. i am trying to avoid this...
i am planning on purchasing the 7950x3d sometime after release so i am looking at the 7950x specs... it says it supports 5200 2x2R w/ two sticks... and 3600 4x2R w/ 4 sticks...
which in my consuming eyes looks like 64gb of 5200 vs 128gb of 3600... however there is no DDR5 @ 3600... therefore i am confused AF. anyone got answers or advice for me? should i just buy 4 sticks of 5200?
i love buildzoid's "i'm telling you this for the 1000th fucking time" voice. never change!
Higher ranks wouldn't reduce effective speed instead of the max? For example if i have a 1 rank dimm that can theoretically go up to 4k mhz but working at 3200 mhz in one slot, if i add another one in the same channel it will be 2 ranks so they will work at < 3200 mhz.
awesome explanation again, thanks!
The only thing missing from this video is:
Why is multi rank bad for frequency?
I'm wondering if it is because of the different length/runtime between the ranks, but then using dual rank sticks would not be impacted ? And if so, same for T-Topology?
Would love to understand the relation of ranks to overclocking.
Thanks for the explanation. Since I didn't understand it well, I had been wondering if you could run one of those DC DIMMs on an X99 ITX to take advantage of all 4 memory channels across the 2 connectors it has (sort of like how you can run two PCIe cards on one connector with bifurcation). This video has answered that question.
i am using hp zbook 17 g3 with 4 ram slot and Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1535M v5. can i mix RAMs of different bandwith. currently i am having 20gb RAM (8gb 2400T, 8gb 2133P and 4gb 2400T all being 1Rx8). can i add 16gb 2Rx8 2666v? all memorys are DDR4. when i checked my CPU memory support on intel page i see;
DDR4-2133, LPDDR3-1866, DDR3L-1600
so in the situation of 48GB does it go like this (8/8/16/16) or like this (8/16/8/16), ram is the same in everything but the size
I have a 2700x with a x470 taichi.
I started with an old vengeance 2x8 gb b-die v4.21 (3200mhz cl 16 rated) on it (from 3 years ago), never went over 12gb usage but wanted to populate all the 4 slots for the t-top configuration of the mobo (not daisy chain).
Found 2x4gb vengeance (3000mhz cl15 rated) used for 40€ and put them on the config.
As you said no problems here with 24gb, I even managed to go down from 3000mhz cl15 to cl14-14-14-14-28 T1, that I couldn't do with only 2 sticks, t-top magic I guess.
Ps the memory controller on my cpu sucks, I can't manage any type of ram at 3200 without stability issues (it boots, too many errors on memtest even boosting voltage and cl)
Huh, my HP Omen laptop came with 12Gb. Now I'm curious if the times it really bogs have been when over 8gb workload.
might be a silly question: going from 2 to 4 sticks would require reducing clock (4400 -> 4000mhz), does that apply for slower speed sticks too (i.e. with 2*8gb 3600, adding another 2 sticks, won't run 4*gb 3600 and require reducing clock to i.e. 3200)?
Still learning. But probably yes. But then agen if the expected limiting factor is cheap ram? Ho said that the cheap ram can not actually run 2*8gb 4000? And so effectively 4*8gb 3600 ends up working? But it is quite a tall order for the 4 sticks to all have the headroom.
Or maybe it actually is not the ram sticks that forces higher clock speed sticks from running slower. But instead the CPU memory controller hitting a limit and so the cheap ram left room for the controller to take 4 sticks instead of 2 running at a high clock and tight timings. Like really adding extra sticks do not really makes sense to be bothering the other sticks. It is far more likely down to the motherboard or CPU memory controller. No?
Really no really now it is best to not tempt pain and try and a single buy kit ones instead of combining multiple.
I assume socket 1700 fits in line of the others in the LGA group? Or has Alder Lake different useability?
re: APU and memory bw: on the distributed computing project World Community Grid, i had about the same points per day (PPD) with 1x2400 stick vs 2x2400 stick. or no worse than 10% slower on a 2400G. running a GPU project along side it was 20-30% fewer PPD, tho. also, on my Threadripper 1950X, there was little to no difference between dual and quad channel or again no more than 10% fewer PPD. basically, you couldn't see the difference on a spreadsheet.
So now I wonder- if there's such a massive performance improvement going from 1 channel to 2 channel, why isn't higher channel support there for more common consumer chips (like Ryzen 5, 7, intel i5, i7, etc running quad channel)
Well ahhhh yea, love the video.
So dual rank configurations are good for AM4 because memory overclocking isn’t really a thing on AM4? Or because you don’t want to overclock past your fclk? But what if your fclocks can go higher than your memory stock speed? Would dual rank memory config hold back your clock speeds? Does all this really matter to those who want to extremely overclock their memory past it’s rated speed?
X4 memory sticks do work on LGA1151 but the iGPU will be very unhappy if you run them. There are modded sticks that are 1Rx4, they are ok TBH, especially the ones with Samsung B or C-Die, they OC to 3733 albeit with loose timings.
Fuck, now I have to go watch the memory topology video. Brb.
I want so badly to point out the irony in the way this started, compared to how it ended; but I know how the comments section works
Oh crap. My 4 sticks 2 are rank 1 two are rank 2 so my zen plus only runs at 2667mhz. ☹️
Came back to this video to refresh my memory and about the comment on CPUs with single channel DDR4 memory controllers, they exist in laptops, AMDs Stoney Ridge laptop CPUs can only use single channel DDR4
Lol, that intro flame was predictable for the regular viewers but it good he makes another video about it. Doesn't hurt to answer questions (mildly sincere)
I actually learned a lot out this answer for that stupid question ahah I like the good work
Q: if 4 ranks is a 16GB stick, what do they do to accomplish 32GB on a single stick without hitting that power limit you were talking about?
COVID-19 exists
Buildzoid rambling about DDR4
You got the rambling part right.
epic
as the channel gets more popular, the questions get stupider
I need someone to teach me about downclocking high speed kits
say one has a mobo rated for 3200MT/s and looking to buy ram, prices of the kits are negligible.
kit1: 3200 CL14
kit2: 4400 CL19
what are the chances the 4400 kit will get close to the 3200 timings when downclocked to 3200?
I did not understand why to prioritze the frequency over rank?
Running 24gb on Ryzen 3000 4-8-4-8 or 8-4-8-4??? Identical samsung single rank b and d?-die, xmp's are the same. Any idea? Thanks. These are 3600CL18 sticks, R5 3600 can only run 4 of the stable @3000, i have 3950X on the way, hoping it will have better IMC so can run at XMP..
How do you end up with an odd ram speed if the speed is doubled on DDR? Like 4133 or something like that.
Frequency is like mph, it is continuous. The markers like 3200 or 4133 are arbitrary like speed limits of 30 or 45. The physical speed will just be 1600 or 2066.5 plus or minus the accuracy of the clock (a few percent)
@@burakbiyikli Ah, so they don't have to be integers.
I was thinking hard about what stupid question to asked that you answered before and I finally got something so here we go:
Should we buy a 2x16gb memory for Ryzen or 4x8gb.
And thanks for the video ;-)
1: make sure the memory is single rank. 2: 2x16 would be better in this situation since you get the same capacity in fewer DIMMs, which means you can fit more memory down the line if you need it. This satisfies the priority for capacity, and you have your dual channel for maximum bandwidth.
Kinda depends on your goals. If you buy relatively high spec 2x16 or 4x8 they will both end up dual rank and then the main difference in overclocking comes down to which ICs you go for.
You realize that some of the people asking the "stupid questions" might just be kids, right? A lot of them are into building their own PCs these days. Asking questions out of ignorance is as normal for them as it is for anyone else.
Unless someone was trolling you, they were probably just ignorant (and trying to cure that) rather than deserving of insults.
Also: Thanks very much for the detailed info of (and enthusiasm for) the MSI Unify and Mortar Max. These are both excellent boards, and your shared knowledge helped me decide on them. Much appreciated.
Insulting someone, even a kid, shouldn't hurt them. A thicker skin isn't a bad thing to have, and anyone with a thick skin should take the supposed insult for what it is, banter, and learn from that in itself.
@AHOC please help me Biuldzoid ... I ordered G.Skill 8x4 CL14 F4-3600C16Q-32GTZR alongside with X570-E Gaming from Asus. Please tell me that will it run at 3600 @CL16 or not? . ( CPU is 3950x ) thanks for the video.