Miata is probably the best choice for a first fun car as a learning tool, and to see if a 2 door roadster is even something you will enjoy in the long run. They are slow (safer for young people), cheap, and provide excellent opportunity to learn body control and feeling the limit of grip in a pretty safe manner since they are so light. I had an NB in high school. Loved it. Now that I'm coming up on 30 with a lot more experience under my belt, I want something similar but a lot more edgy, and the AP1 is just the ticket.
That’s right - while an ND2 could be a lot of car for a new driver NA/NB/NC could be a good tool. Not that the ND is terrifying or anything, it’s just in a different league than the previous ones. AP1 is king
Have driven Porsche, BMW M’s, Toyota’s, Nissans. None of those car brands shift w the precision and delight of the S2000 gearbox. Test drove it once in 2002 and never forgot it. Today own a 2001 S2K and love that gearbox and high revving 9K redline.
Me too, had some BMW’s as well as a M2C competition and drove some Porsches due to my profession but the only „step up“ from my AP1 would be a Ariel Atom 4 or something similar. Currently i own a AP1 and a GR Yaris, for me thats the perfect Summer/Winter combination 😌 i‘ve never driven an ND Miata and somehow it was never an option when i looked for a new car so interesting to watch this videos. Btw. I‘ve been told to not rest my hand on the shifter while driving and to not skip shift, don‘t know if that makes any difference but jus wanted to mention it :)
A GR Yaris? Amazing! And as far as resting goes, I’ve heard that for years too - in fact I make it a habit to not do that but sometimes my brain does weird brain things. Skip shifting is a no no too. I’ll usually rev match each gear as I come down or ensure I’m putting them in each gear as I’m bringing the speed down. Good observation.
@@bornagainmotoring yea but i don't know if it's true, i heard it puts pressure on shifter haha yea it's a truely special car this S2000 and it really starts to get fun when you do coilovers, roll bars, some bucket seats and track it! If you're planning to track it, i would consider a break upgrade, i think 4 piston should be sufficient with good ventilation, thats where it's the most fun or on twisty mountain roads! =D keep the videos coming! :)
stock for stock -- ap1 s2000 is more of a track car right out of the box. It rewards good driving and punishes bad. The ND2 is built and marketed as a fun car for daily driving - it tends toward understeer to keep you safe and makes you feel like you're doing more while doing less. The AP1's race engine is definitely more enjoyable - and on an open track where you can keep those RPMs above 5k, probably the better performer. The ND2's chassis, however, is more modern and has more potential with certain upgrades, if you are into racing it. Putting in a bigger sway bar and some coilovers really transforms the car.
Would there be a huge benefit if I upgraded from the stock bilstein to ohlins coilover if im using the ND2 as a daily driver and occasional canyon run?
@@crisj45 They might be a bit overkill tbh.. They improve responsiveness and road feel, but will add a degree of harshness to the ride. If you hate how the car looks at stock ride height they do address that tho... But for non competitive canyon and daily driving you might consider something like koni shocks and progressive springs which will improve handling and ride quality
@@crisj45 i have a nd 1 with Ohlins, its about better in every way, even in bad road surface it rides better. I have track spring rates and its still better than stock on the road when i turn in to full soft, that's just speak to the quality of the damper. I have swift lowering springs before that, imo the stock Bilstein cant handle stiffer spring rate.
I prefer ND2 over AP1 mostly for safety reasons. the AP1 has no electronic supervision and it handles tightly until it suddenly lets go and spins off. the ND2 is more forgiving and easier to control at the limit. The AP2 2006+ model has VSC and is a safer and has better handling.
I have made my 1.5l ND rev to 8k, made the intake sound alot better. Modified the car extensively all over. I wonder what you would think of it compared to the s2k.
I think I’d love to drive it. I still miss my ND and a modified variations are a different animal! The AP1 shows its age real easily when up against a properly modified ND.
I always go and drive in the first day of the year. Feels like after zombies apocalypse. All those empty streets while the drunk crowd is still sleeping. About Nd . I never drove one but didn't planned to downgrade from my Ap1
Great strategy 👍 - the ND drives very well, definitely more comfortable, like a mini grand touring car in that stock setup but as mentioned, would be a step down performance wise from the AP1.
I my judgement they are actually two very different cars. I see the Miata as a more domesticated, nicer stereo and probably more a comfortable riding car. While the S2K was designed, engineered and built to a much higher performance level. Fifteen years ago I was fortunate to take a ride in a AP1 S2K and learn a little of it's performance. Several years later when a really nice used one could be had for $10K or less, I bought a 2002 with 60,000 mi. driven by nice lady. It's been my daily driver ever since. Cheers
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your experience. They are indeed different cars that both deliver smiles in their own individual ways while being true to the sports car formula. The ND2 is a lovely machine and it is definitely more modern. It has better creature comforts but it’s not too far ahead of the s2k since its main goal is to be a driver’s car. The F20c is a far more fun engine in my opinion and makes my smile bigger.
you have to remember honda is a masterclass in motor/manual trans building agree with you on a higher ceiling for skill level but disagree that ap1 performs better than nd2 ND2 while the motor is at its core still an economy engine, overall the vehicle is better balanced and it's always easier to put sways in than to take away 500lbs from a vehicle so to me it's the better platform luckily i have both haha
I appreciate your feedback, especially since it comes from experience of owning both as well. Let me rephrase, stock for stock the AP1 is the better performer. Once you get into the aftermarket, it wouldn’t take much for a much more modern platform like the ND2 to spank the S2K, especially given the weight and the underbody. We all know S2K aero is WACK. With that said, the joy I get out of wringing out the S2K motor just can’t be replaced. Honda really did it with this car. The fact that we’re talking about it in this way 20 years after it’s creation compared to modern cars puts it in the “classic” category, that is to say it’s in a class of its own. Of course this is just my opinion.
The ap1 blows the same era nb out of the water yet s2k is still being compatible with the modern fr convertible after 20+ years is really insane. Old time Hondas were so ahead of its time back then. Is sad to see the new Hondas lack its direction and doesn’t make these great fun fr convertible anymore and only put their focus in the ff. Toyota gr lineup seems to be the only one who still has motivation to make proper sports cars nowadays
Next time you must try a Miata NC turbo with suspension etc vs s2000,this 2 cars have more same character and specs than the ND,the nc chassis it will reminds you the s2000 but the the pleasure of a turbo in the miata nc is far better especially if you can find a 2.5 Turbo (300+hp) NC miata.I have a 2.5 turbo (G25 550) at 430hp and this car is a rocket 🚀 and very serious competitor for track days.
If the opportunity ever affords itself, I would gladly drive a turbo NC. Or any modified variation for that matter - they are most definitely fun cars as well.
Great car. When is America going to wake up and get rid of all those wasteful, stupid traffic lights that you had to sit through for no reason? Wasting electricity to waste gas. Europe is very much ahead of us in safe and efficient road design.
The AP1 has the 2.0 liter 9000 RPM for all markets. In 2004, the AP2 came out but only in the North America market did we get the 2.2 8000 RPM engine, while the rest of the world still retained the 2.0 for AP2. In 2006 I believe, the rest adopted the 2.2 liter engine.
@@bornagainmotoring yea, i think it was just not worth it for honda to do all the emission tests for each European country for a car they didn't sell much in the first place
It’s the little details that count 😀 - you can find one on Etsy or eBay but have to have it cut by a locksmith. Programming the remote can be done very easily. Make sure you get the right one for your model year because the chip is different. This is an 04-09 example www.etsy.com/listing/1301979885/
@@bornagainmotoring yeah, I came from LA. I thought the driving out there was bad but it has nothing on Texas. 🤦♂️ Also just picked up illumaesthetics dash color change. If you don’t like the 1980s orange of the dash I recommend checking them out I got blue and white and it looks almost modern lol
@cidfacetious3722 Being from Vegas, I said the same thing 😂 - thanks for the recommendation on the dash. What I like about the current dash is the reference to the McLaren MP formula cars! I always look at it with in mind. I did consider the qube engineering digital dash at one point.
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
Miata is probably the best choice for a first fun car as a learning tool, and to see if a 2 door roadster is even something you will enjoy in the long run. They are slow (safer for young people), cheap, and provide excellent opportunity to learn body control and feeling the limit of grip in a pretty safe manner since they are so light. I had an NB in high school. Loved it. Now that I'm coming up on 30 with a lot more experience under my belt, I want something similar but a lot more edgy, and the AP1 is just the ticket.
That’s right - while an ND2 could be a lot of car for a new driver NA/NB/NC could be a good tool. Not that the ND is terrifying or anything, it’s just in a different league than the previous ones. AP1 is king
Have driven Porsche, BMW M’s, Toyota’s, Nissans. None of those car brands shift w the precision and delight of the S2000 gearbox. Test drove it once in 2002 and never forgot it. Today own a 2001 S2K and love that gearbox and high revving 9K redline.
You nailed it! Having similar experience is exactly why I landed on the S2000. Mine is also a 2001. Thanks for sharing.
Me too, had some BMW’s as well as a M2C competition and drove some Porsches due to my profession but the only „step up“ from my AP1 would be a Ariel Atom 4 or something similar. Currently i own a AP1 and a GR Yaris, for me thats the perfect Summer/Winter combination 😌 i‘ve never driven an ND Miata and somehow it was never an option when i looked for a new car so interesting to watch this videos.
Btw. I‘ve been told to not rest my hand on the shifter while driving and to not skip shift, don‘t know if that makes any difference but jus wanted to mention it :)
A GR Yaris? Amazing! And as far as resting goes, I’ve heard that for years too - in fact I make it a habit to not do that but sometimes my brain does weird brain things. Skip shifting is a no no too. I’ll usually rev match each gear as I come down or ensure I’m putting them in each gear as I’m bringing the speed down. Good observation.
@@bornagainmotoring yea but i don't know if it's true, i heard it puts pressure on shifter haha yea it's a truely special car this S2000 and it really starts to get fun when you do coilovers, roll bars, some bucket seats and track it! If you're planning to track it, i would consider a break upgrade, i think 4 piston should be sufficient with good ventilation, thats where it's the most fun or on twisty mountain roads! =D keep the videos coming! :)
Absolutely my friend. Thanks for all the comments. The engagement with other drivers is what I enjoy most about this.
stock for stock -- ap1 s2000 is more of a track car right out of the box. It rewards good driving and punishes bad. The ND2 is built and marketed as a fun car for daily driving - it tends toward understeer to keep you safe and makes you feel like you're doing more while doing less. The AP1's race engine is definitely more enjoyable - and on an open track where you can keep those RPMs above 5k, probably the better performer. The ND2's chassis, however, is more modern and has more potential with certain upgrades, if you are into racing it. Putting in a bigger sway bar and some coilovers really transforms the car.
Very well said. I believe an inexperienced driver will perform better in an ND2 VS. AP1, stock for stock.
Would there be a huge benefit if I upgraded from the stock bilstein to ohlins coilover if im using the ND2 as a daily driver and occasional canyon run?
@@crisj45 They might be a bit overkill tbh.. They improve responsiveness and road feel, but will add a degree of harshness to the ride. If you hate how the car looks at stock ride height they do address that tho... But for non competitive canyon and daily driving you might consider something like koni shocks and progressive springs which will improve handling and ride quality
@@RobertMeany I thought Ohlins is the gold standard when it comes to suspension for road use.
@@crisj45 i have a nd 1 with Ohlins, its about better in every way, even in bad road surface it rides better. I have track spring rates and its still better than stock on the road when i turn in to full soft, that's just speak to the quality of the damper. I have swift lowering springs before that, imo the stock Bilstein cant handle stiffer spring rate.
The AP1 is the best S2000 👌
Let’s just say that the winner of a race is number 1, so it is in its name 😂
Glad you’re happy with the Honda. That said, I LOVE the MX-5’s body roll. Mazda’s talented engineers dialed it in just right!
Definitely a fun character trait!
This is my new favorite channel! Another great video.
Thanks for that, it’s certainly comments like this that make it all worth it.
Body roll is a non-issue with a new set of anti-roll bars.
Absolutely. I think its a shame Mazda didn't set it up like that out of the factory. They have their apparent reasons but I don't agree with them.
I prefer ND2 over AP1 mostly for safety reasons. the AP1 has no electronic supervision and it handles tightly until it suddenly lets go and spins off. the ND2 is more forgiving and easier to control at the limit.
The AP2 2006+ model has VSC and is a safer and has better handling.
The ND2 is certainly easier to drive.
I have made my 1.5l ND rev to 8k, made the intake sound alot better. Modified the car extensively all over. I wonder what you would think of it compared to the s2k.
I think I’d love to drive it. I still miss my ND and a modified variations are a different animal! The AP1 shows its age real easily when up against a properly modified ND.
I always go and drive in the first day of the year. Feels like after zombies apocalypse. All those empty streets while the drunk crowd is still sleeping. About Nd . I never drove one but didn't planned to downgrade from my Ap1
Great strategy 👍 - the ND drives very well, definitely more comfortable, like a mini grand touring car in that stock setup but as mentioned, would be a step down performance wise from the AP1.
I my judgement they are actually two very different cars. I see the Miata as a more domesticated, nicer stereo and probably more a comfortable riding car. While the S2K was designed, engineered and built to a much higher performance level. Fifteen years ago I was fortunate to take a ride in a AP1 S2K and learn a little of it's performance. Several years later when a really nice used one could be had for $10K or less, I bought a 2002 with 60,000 mi. driven by nice lady. It's been my daily driver ever since. Cheers
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your experience. They are indeed different cars that both deliver smiles in their own individual ways while being true to the sports car formula. The ND2 is a lovely machine and it is definitely more modern. It has better creature comforts but it’s not too far ahead of the s2k since its main goal is to be a driver’s car. The F20c is a far more fun engine in my opinion and makes my smile bigger.
you have to remember honda is a masterclass in motor/manual trans building
agree with you on a higher ceiling for skill level but disagree that ap1 performs better than nd2
ND2 while the motor is at its core still an economy engine, overall the vehicle is better balanced and it's always easier to put sways in than to take away 500lbs from a vehicle so to me it's the better platform
luckily i have both haha
I appreciate your feedback, especially since it comes from experience of owning both as well. Let me rephrase, stock for stock the AP1 is the better performer. Once you get into the aftermarket, it wouldn’t take much for a much more modern platform like the ND2 to spank the S2K, especially given the weight and the underbody. We all know S2K aero is WACK. With that said, the joy I get out of wringing out the S2K motor just can’t be replaced. Honda really did it with this car. The fact that we’re talking about it in this way 20 years after it’s creation compared to modern cars puts it in the “classic” category, that is to say it’s in a class of its own. Of course this is just my opinion.
The ap1 blows the same era nb out of the water yet s2k is still being compatible with the modern fr convertible after 20+ years is really insane. Old time Hondas were so ahead of its time back then. Is sad to see the new Hondas lack its direction and doesn’t make these great fun fr convertible anymore and only put their focus in the ff. Toyota gr lineup seems to be the only one who still has motivation to make proper sports cars nowadays
Next time you must try a Miata NC turbo with suspension etc vs s2000,this 2 cars have more same character and specs than the ND,the nc chassis it will reminds you the s2000 but the the pleasure of a turbo in the miata nc is far better especially if you can find a 2.5 Turbo (300+hp) NC miata.I have a 2.5 turbo (G25 550) at 430hp and this car is a rocket 🚀 and very serious competitor for track days.
If the opportunity ever affords itself, I would gladly drive a turbo NC. Or any modified variation for that matter - they are most definitely fun cars as well.
ND Miata has a better (stiffer) chassis and better steering, but it doesn't even make 100hp/Liter. The s2000 has a true motorsports inspired engine.
Yes :)
Absolutely
Great car. When is America going to wake up and get rid of all those wasteful, stupid traffic lights that you had to sit through for no reason? Wasting electricity to waste gas. Europe is very much ahead of us in safe and efficient road design.
😂😂
So I believe the years for the ap1 have a difference engine liter for 2.0 to 2.2 or something? Can you advise on this?
The AP1 has the 2.0 liter 9000 RPM for all markets. In 2004, the AP2 came out but only in the North America market did we get the 2.2 8000 RPM engine, while the rest of the world still retained the 2.0 for AP2. In 2006 I believe, the rest adopted the 2.2 liter engine.
Europe never got the 2.2l luckily 😌 we retained the 9k rpm till 2009
Amazing, even Japan went 2.2.
@@bornagainmotoring yea, i think it was just not worth it for honda to do all the emission tests for each European country for a car they didn't sell much in the first place
Can you talk more about that key I want 😍
It’s the little details that count 😀 - you can find one on Etsy or eBay but have to have it cut by a locksmith. Programming the remote can be done very easily. Make sure you get the right one for your model year because the chip is different. This is an 04-09 example www.etsy.com/listing/1301979885/
There is nothing that you can compare to a S2K. Its in a league of its own. The MX-5 could never look nearly as good no matter what you do to it.
Having owned both, I can confidently say this is true. Though the ND series is appealing and a wonderful drive.
Nah.
Any S2K is better than any Miata.
I definitely prefer the S2K - owning an ND2 was great as well but not the raw experience I was looking for.
A car accident in Texas? Well, that’s as common as breathing. I was here two months before a young girl smashed into my car and totaled it.
My story is very similar. I wasn’t here but a little longer than that
@@bornagainmotoring yeah, I came from LA. I thought the driving out there was bad but it has nothing on Texas. 🤦♂️
Also just picked up illumaesthetics dash color change. If you don’t like the 1980s orange of the dash I recommend checking them out I got blue and white and it looks almost modern lol
@cidfacetious3722 Being from Vegas, I said the same thing 😂 - thanks for the recommendation on the dash. What I like about the current dash is the reference to the McLaren MP formula cars! I always look at it with in mind. I did consider the qube engineering digital dash at one point.
If you arent driving an s2000 near its limits, its a terrible car in so many ways.