The Shocking Reality of Ranked Mode in Tekken 8
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- Tekken 8’s Ranked Mode Is BROKEN-Will the Oct 1st Patch Finally FIX It? Let’s find out!
🚨 Watch the previous discussion on Tekken 8 rank distributions here: • What YOUR current TEKK...
In this episode of Tricky Weather Girl, we dive into the flawed matchmaking, broken rank distribution, and the issues the new update might still miss.
🔍 Here's what we cover:
The current rank distribution and why it's broken.
Matchmaking dead zones causing unfair fights.
What the new patch aims to change-and what it might leave broken.
👀 Are we really about to see a better matchmaking experience, or is this just a band-aid fix?
👉 Subscribe and hit the bell to stay ahead of Tekken 8 updates and insights!
What's your take? Will the patch fix the rank system, or are we in for more problems? Comment below! 💬
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#Tekken8 #RankSystem #Matchmaking #NewPatch #TrickyWeatherGirl
due to popopular demand. Here's a link to the green screen version of the "this is atrocious" . Please use irresponsibly
th-cam.com/video/j_SZrT-5_eM/w-d-xo.html
Yep, imma need more Tricky Weather Forecasts because this format is phenomenal and Tekken’s temperature is out of wack
😂I have like 3 older ones. Glad you enjoy them!
th-cam.com/video/E_vCrnG45GU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=lRcfn_1Z3D182vLI but the audio was so damn bad. This one here is my best one so far imo.
Im like 3 seconds into this vid and I already agree 😂
God, a green screen version of that opening "This is atrocious" would have so many potential uses.
I mean I have it. . . I could release it
@@TrickyEileen Please do, would do platinum numbers..
Yeah I could use that meme for so many things.
@@deathonadinosaur here's two versions one with and one without music
th-cam.com/video/j_SZrT-5_eM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/CDY7b_oySk4/w-d-xo.html
@@KIDCON26 here's two versions one with and one without music
th-cam.com/video/j_SZrT-5_eM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/CDY7b_oySk4/w-d-xo.html
This is why I take a 1-2 month break whenever I rank up 1-2 spots. I play quick/player matches to get comfortable fighting “similar” ranked folks before I jump back in. The skill jumps are wild sometimes
I've been considering doing just this. Just made it to Tekken King and got an almost 50,000 prowess jump. Faced Tekken Gods and got my butt beat over and over.
This is precisely what I do. Makes the eventual ranked play less stressful imo
Same. Gives me some room to improve and adjust to better players
Idk man I hit battle ruler and there absolute gods hiding in quick matches lol or just refuse to play ranked. Maybe it’s just the times I play but I was playing my flame ruler only getting tekken gods and raijin match ups
me watching this knowing i'll rank down tomorrow 😂😂
its okay, we suffer together
Right there with you, friend 😅
It happens to everyone, specially getting cheesed to death, it’s like you didn’t even get to play, and that is really frustrating.
I had a promotion match against a 375k prowess fujin Eddy… mind you I was at 164k prowess. I felt so cheated. Now on my way up to raijin- one step at a time.
let's just hope they fix the prowess matchmaking the same way they brought it in, silently without ever talking about it. Let us hope
I feel for you. I once had a demotion match as a fujin against a god of destruction. No idea why they can’t program common sense into their system
What? At raijin at only like 170k prowess?
My highest is Fujin and I am at 220k. I really messed myself up playing too many different characters huh? Lol...
That would happen to me, but i wouldn’t rematch a dlc character, at least one i didn’t buy. You can’t take over ur character in the replay vs a dlc character. Really scummy from Namco. So one n done anytime vs dlc.
@@Sicknificant1 I was going from battle ruler to fujin- my prowess is now 186,614 in fujin so the raijin bump will be nice- that specific match tho, yeah that was where I was at. I only have a Jin in purples otherwise- my character rn is Asuka.
I definitely hit a wall at Garyu. Been ping ponging back and forth between Garyu and Eliminator. Currently on my longest run in Garyu, but sometimes it feels like I'm just getting fed to better players.
Just made Fujin yesterday, but I was hard stuck at Garyu for the longest time, it's the first big wall a lot of players encounter, just keep at it and you will eventually get comfortable in red ranks, the skill gap between them and purple isn't as bad as that first jump from orange to red.
Keep at it! I was stuck at Garyu for almost a month, it was an amazing feeling once I hit Tenryu. You will get there too!
Same I'm in garyu and bounce as well. I know im not the best but it is frustrating. I need to better defense for sure. I lab, but it don't stick. I think I'm just gonna play and try to level up my skill but playing and playing
Want to add to this.. i am emperor with 260k prowess (i main shaheen but like to play other characters too and have maybe 7 or 8 fujin-raijin characters which inflated my prowess a bit). I have been hard stuck at emperor for over 2 months. More often than not i am matched with players with 350k prowess and i get wrecked, i get demoted to king, get my rank back by fighting blue ranks with 200-230k prowess, then immediately am put back to fighting monsters at 350k+. Not only that, it will match me with the same high rank players 4 or 5 ft2s in a row. Its been the most brutal experience of any ranked game for me. On one hand i like the opportunity to play real killers, but i feel like i havent gotten any better for it. Its totally possible ive peaked/need to hit the lab more but god damn this shit sucks and i feel like im actually getting worse only fighting people higher or lower than me.
See and the issue is there are tons of players who you could be fighting that are actually close to your actual skill at the game. But the matchmaking thus far just breaks at higher prowess. Whatever settings they have it on, needs to be fixed. There are tons of folks across different skills but for one reason or another , it won’t match us
People play ranked till they reach a goal and stop playing ranked. Its the same for street fighter. That's why in all the colors, the first one is the highest.
Sf rank tables look far more normally distributed than this by a lot. I’ve never seen such a clearly inadequate system in data form. I’m comparing it the other rank systems , even beyond fighting games
This is my new favorite format for discussions like this. Love the weather forcast style. Much more engaging then most vidios like this.
Thank! I figured what else is super boring but we like it, and I thought weather reports! And here we are
The mega man zero music is hitting.. so good
You’re walking down them blue stairs and unlock ranked 2.0 and them players send you right back up the stairs 😂🤣
I’m currently a 275k prowess Tekken god solely playing Jun but then I went to play a second character and see how it felt to play in blue again I found matches in blue were a lot of GoDs on a second character making games as sweaty as my main and when I find someone who’s a real purple I feel so bad for them cuz they get whooped cuz the huge gap in skill
This is sooooo true
I started Tekken 8 last week. Did the usual look up a guide for my character, put about 20 hours in the practice room, then jumped into ranked.
The issue I noticed in the beginner ranked were six figure (or 80k+) prowess and full S+ players being matched to me about 80% of the time (tracked my own metrics).
My ranked filter is +-2.
I've been told at beginner ranks prowess and all that doesn't matter, but (s+ XXX,XXX prowess) players consistently full combo, do not miss punishes and constantly deconstruct my playstyle.
Explanations given have been "all players have to rank up and tekken has lots of knowledge and a high skill player base", but that was 7 months ago when the game came out they should have moved on to higher ranks, right?
On matches not against S+ high prowess opponents I have about a 60% win rate. That'd be fine if those were my primary opponents, but they're not.
This has made ranking up very slow and honestly it's making the game boring.
To further discourage me I disabled the rank filter, got matched back against 2 warrior ranks, and won 3 to 0 each time; they both opted not to fight again.
Contrasting this with the +-2 filter is a little abysmal.
Crawled my way up to ranger yesterday and my current strategy is to just take an L if their prowess is over 80k or they have all S+ stats. Save my energy for matches I can actually win.
The other players tend to get upset when I let them win, but they're doing perfect frame lightening fists, Korean back dashes, and have had 7 months to not be a 0 dan.
I'll keep grinding the game up, but this whole experience of being farmed at beginner levels has led me to not recommend this game to any new players.
Thank you for explaining this I now feel glad I went back to Tekken 6 now
OMG This line "please don't fall over' got me 😅
Good video. It's really difficult to improve when you're constantly playing people way worse/way better than you
Yes this is it exactly.
Thanks for watching, Tricksters! 🎮 Do you think the upcoming Heihachi patch will finally fix Tekken 8’s ranked mode, or is it just another bandaid? 🤔 Share your experiences and thoughts on the matchmaking issues-what’s been your biggest frustration, and what changes do you hope to see? Let’s get the conversation going below! 👇🔥
also note average range are the 15.9% to 84%tile. So like that is most people based on the current system.
I haven't finished the video yet, but I've been purple for 3+ months and it's not because I'm hard stuck, it's because I don't play any more. I don't know if the video/data addresses that, so just throwing it out for you to consider.
@@teamguapogames it’s only active players. That’s what makes this really worth looking at.
This was my first Tekken and I'm still new to fighting games, so I decided to set a challenge for myself to learn the game. I would get all the characters to red ranks. I did this, except for Lidia. In terms of learning I think it was a good choice. But in terms of ranking up, it was a terrible choice. My prowess is higher than many blue players, so I face many Bushin and higher players while my highest characters are at Shinryu. And yet if they are playing a side character that is Destroyer rank, I work my ass off and get no points for winning. This makes it feel grueling to rank up at all. I wonder if I'd just stuck with one character, if I might've ranked up more by being more appropriately matched with people closer to my skill bracket. Could this be solved by making matchmaking based on actual rank? Great video Tricky!
Its interesting because while your true skill level may feel much lower, it pushes you against higher competition which is demanding more skill expression from you at an earlier time. And while you may not be totally ready for that, it does also set a precedent to learn characters using fundamentals rather than their individual knowledge checks and gimmicks. If you have the fundamentals to reach red many times over, anyone would be hard pressed to say its a fake rank.
Been hard stuck in red ranks for months.
Gotten 3 separate characters to Garyu (got Lidia to Shinryu a few days ago) and from that point on it’s exactly what you said, either I face players who are extremely easy to beat or I get players who are my rank or higher but yet play like they have been playing Tekken for years and can read almost everything I throw at them.
Matches when I get to red ranks go something like this usually…
Win, loss, loss, loss, loss, de-rank, win, win, rank up, win, loss, win, loss, loss, loss, loss, de-rank, repeat process again. There is a bit of nuance to this and it’s not exactly like this every time but it just seems impossible to get out of red.
Luckily, I even got Lidia to Shinryu but guess what? Yeah, I won like two matches and got steamrolled all the way back down to Eliminator where I easily beat all players and got back to Garyu again…
Now, call this a cope if you want but I work a full time job, other responsibilities and things that I need to do so I don’t have a lot of time to learn Tekken as much as I would like so I’m not the greatest player but the fact that this is the way it has been for months and that this is how it ALWAYS goes tells me that ranked is unbalanced or just completely broken.
Not to mention that how much xp you get or lose based on if you win or lose is just ridiculous.
it is broken bro. It happen the same to me but around blue and purple ranks. Even the win-loss streak you mentioned, it's exactly the same for me. I just never went down to purple ranks because at this point true purple ranks (and fujin) are waaay behind in skill.
I’m at about 180k prowess. Blue Eddy and Purple Jun. I honestly don’t even want to rank up past Fujin. The difference in the 220k+ players is VAST
The reason behind this that if you reach a high rank with one character all the other ones go up so many blue players will have the majority of their characters in Garyu
It's rough - 1v1 elo is a solved problem, one single metric to determine matchmaking and it should be the same metric that goes up or down when you lose. If you don't have a proper bell curve on the ranked distribution then you failed.
Nice video.
Well that's not exactly a perfect solution in this case since, unlike in a game like chess, not every character is the same. At some point you have to make a decision as to how someone's mastery of their entire pool of characters factors into the equation. Having the entire roster of the characters you've never played rank up to the bottom of the tier below you when you reach a new personal best rank does help with that problem, but it's still not perfect.
There is no perfect catch all solution and everyone seems to oversimplify matchmaking in their heads.
@@BigDaddyWesye the initial state of the game was atrocious for new players, it was just convenient for longtime players and that caused a massive uproar lol
I think my winrate to garyu as a tekken beginner and already sweat gamer from other games was like 27%. It was the worst gaming experience I had, just awful
Great video. I'm actually one of those hovering in orange folks but that's partially because I decided to get 50 wins with each character before deciding a main and so I hover between playing quick play until I feel like I can pilot (usually 10-20 matches) then I do ranked until I hit orange and 50 wins then back to character select. Even at my low skill level overall, it's helped me recognize when I'm piloting a character at my relative skill level (i.e. I feel like my latest character is as good as my best). The knowledge and stuff it takes to get higher will come after I finally decide a main.
Ok… thanks a lot for that video, explains a lot about me currently having such a hard time getting out of blue ranks… I haven’t reached king yet but broke through to bushin and stayed their for a while… now I am back at fujin and busting my ass to go back up. I am pretty sure my quality of play hasn’t degraded that much, so I think your theory rings true
Yeah. I can say my opponents now are way stronger than the ones I faced at lower prowess at the same rank. It’s silly and not how ranks are supposed to operate lol
I’m a Raijin Law main and also have a Flame Ruler Eddie…the worst part about blue ranks is mfs always one and done you or plug you cuz it’s just so hard to get to blue ranks cuz so many ppl are hard locked in purple or red which makes it so toxic. On PSN I get messages from nasty ppl every day and I’m only a Raijin. Every time I have a promo to Kisirin it’s against a Tekken King who’s way better than me or I win but get plugged…so frustrating. Ppl are hard locked in the first rank of red purple and blue cuz they plug on demotion matches. I’ll win 3 in a row and get plus 250 and the lose IN ROUND 5 by a hair to a mf about to hit Tekken King and boom minus 1000…it’s so lame.
Blue rank ain't that tough ngl
@@royce536 okay nice opinion? What’s the point of your comment dog. Blue ranks is right before the extremely good ranks that hardly have any players…if you make it to high blue ranks you for sure have a mastery of one character and understand the game. You’re far better than most players in blue ranks lol.
I rarely play tekken and I feel highly educated. I see how some of the statistics apply to street fighter. Interesting video yet again.
Thnx. Yeah I’d like to do these for sf6 too. But I have to tear myself away from tekken to do it. Hard
Y'all smell that?....... Tricky is cooking! 👩🍳🍽🍳
This thumbnail is glorious 😂😂
Great video Eileen, I love this format 👌🏾
I have MIXED opinions on this. I do agree this system makes ABSOLUTELY no sense, especially coming from other fighting games were rank was just a linear increase, rather than all these random factors.
HOWEVER! I wouldn’t be as good as I am now if I wasn’t FORCED to change up how I viewed the game as a whole, and truly leveled up to handle the crazy players they were throwing at me.
Honestly I’m the same way that’s why I didn’t really make a huge fuss about the prowess matchmaking. Once you reach a threshold, the game throw you to the sharks and says sink or swim. I don’t really mind it personally, I’m forced to adapt. It actually gave the rank system a nice adrenaline rush for me.
@@gilet102 Honestly the only I’d personally fix about rank is running into people who’re way higher or lower than you. Theirs no reason a Fujin player should matching with people 5 ranks below or above them like- wtf? It never felt this bad in t7
@@Bestboymiles yea the game usually do that when it takes longer to matchmake you with someone close to your rank/prowess.
@@gilet102right cuz it’s filtering by prowess first then rank. Which is kind of backwards. It should be rank, then prowess within that rank distribution if they want to keep the prowess matchmaking feature. The filter order is backwards
Like half of garyus are just hardstuck purple/fujins on alts going 1 and 1 destroying garyus and losing to another fujin garyu. The actual garyus are getting farmed. Sadly, before the "smurfs" would at the very least quickly rank up and be gone. Now Mr. Gotthegameamonthago has to go against me and wonder how Tekken thought it would be a good idea to put a garyu against another garyu with 200k prowess. He loses. Then I the next game get to go against a tenryu with 240k prowess. I lose and lose more points too. Meaning my pubstomp on the actual garyu actually was for nothing and if I am lucky i will queue into him again to farm some points.
Used to be you just quickly ascended through the ranks while saying sorry to the people in your way but at least it was quick.
Prowess sucks as anything more than just a reference number.
Very interesting stuff! I switched my main after hitting blue with Bryan, been stuck at tenryu/ mighty ruler cos everyone I fight is a bushin-god on an alt. Definitely feel like it’s helped me get better tho and I can feel myself breaking through the gate and I can now keep up with most of those players so I don’t mind it too much tho it is very stupid. It would be interesting to rank up a fresh account and see how high I got cos my prowess is cooked 😂
I knew reading comments Id find a similar take. My understanding is, you should fight stronger opponents to get better, not the same opponents you left behind. Being in red and purple and fighting blue rank players makes sense to me. You'll get whipped for sure, but soon you'll adapt to the speed and playstyle of better players. Thats why in higher ranks theres faster less spammy play. What we idealize as TRUE TEKKEN.
Thank you for confirming my bias with actual knowledge/depictions.
I played Alisa, Zafina, Jack, and Hwoarang all up to about Battle Ruler. Decided I wanted really start learning the game and I wanted to prove to my friends, who claim I only play cheesy characters, I picked up post nerfs Devil Jin. Got fujin, felt proud. Little did I know what have a 5th character above battle ruler would do to my prowess...
Maybe 1 in 5 games I play against someone that is a Fujin or within a couple ranks realistically. It is always someone with 250k+ prowess. Their main is likely many more ranks higher and the "alt" they are using is the character they simply haven't grinded through ranked yet. They are excellent players that can beat lower rank players pretty much regardless of what character they use as long as they have basic knowledge (which they always have from either setplay with friends or previous experience).
Point is... I am not hardstuck bc of people at my actual ceiling. I am hardstuck by people many ranks higher bc of prowess.
The answer... is to get much much better. I don't have to get to the same level as a "raijin" player but I have to get to the skill level of the most common player in that rank, which is mostly emperors and above on alts.
Sooooo... why play ranked at all? Many in my FGC are tekkeng king/gods. I will just keep getting destroyed by them with no extra stress until I am good enough to blast the prowess ceiling wide open.
They made the ranked system in this game so much worse than it was in 7. I mean really it started getting worse when they tweaked it for season 2 of 7 but then 8 made it worse on top of that.
There was no reason for them to make it so you can’t get demoted before yellow. Maybe they think new players like the idea of not getting demoted but it actually makes their gameplay worse when they just get railroaded into a pool with wider skill discrepancies when they finally get to yellow. And gaining more points for winning than you lose for losing until fujin creates the same problem for intermediate players.
Then in your video when you point to some of the steep drop offs and say “there should be a rank in between here”, you’re 100% right, and there used to actually be ranks there lol. Every color in 7 had four ranks.
Losing way more points for losing to someone who’s a way higher rank than you compared to gaining way fewer points if you win against someone who’s a lower rank than you makes no sense.
Personally I think being limited to ft2s in ranked makes it less enjoyable but that’s just my opinion so I wouldn’t argue it too much.
The only good change they’ve made to ranked since t7 s1 was adding the progress bars. I wish they would just go back to every match you gain/lose the same amount based on how far apart you are and you actually have to win more than half the time to rank up.
Good thing they’re fixing the way points work on wins and losses. I will be watching close to see how this changes the tables if at all
Tekken8 is my first Tekken and I been pretty much stuck in Fujin/Raijin. I don't mind it cause I'm well aware the difference between Raijin and Tekken King is just massive and I'm not willing to put in the work in to get there. So I'm destined to be here till T9 which imho is fine
Really enjoying Tekken8, last one I played was Tekken3. Tried T7 but really didnt like it and quit within like 3h lol
Having a blast with T8
I’ve seen a couple videos but it’s only after hearing you exclaim “this is bullshit!” Will I confidently subscribe 😂
The bell curve aint bell curving
My last 3 neurons from my college days just went 7:05 *insert Leonardo DiCraprio whisltning meme here* "Bell Curve".
lol. That’s why I started superimposing the curve so y’all could see it
I had a goal to hit purple with Lidia but before i could i deranked back to Shinryu and after that i haven't touched the character and play on an alt account where i dont have to care about rank i can just play and learn characters. I genuinely start sweating when I thinking about trying again.
Great video from everyone's favorite Tekken weather girl! Only critique; no blazer! 😜😜
they should implement MMR after Tekken King, cause this shit is crazy, after I hit 230k I have been getting matched but nothing but GoD's and absolutely no bushins or kishins. What's worse is once you get 230k prowess it doesn't drop back to bushin prowess, but you keep getting matched with the same players in that bracket, like that's insane
The two most annoying parts of being in red ranks for me (I got to Tenryu and havent played since) are: 1) As a Garyu, the most populated rank, why do i get put in matches with Tenryu players over 70% of the time? 2) The amount of points required to rank up is much larger than the previous ranks so getting out of Garyu is a massive headache.
If you have reached Tenryu, you will have a Tenryu level prowess, so even if you get demoted to Garyu or play an alt at Garyu, the matchmaker will try to match you with other Tenryu's, since this is within the +/-2 gap at Garyu.
@@pite9 funnily enough, this was a problem I had at launch as jun when I reached garyu so I changed mains repeatedly getting 6 characters to the same rank. Only then did I get Alisa to tenryu
Taking a lot of breaks because I lack dedication and lose interest quickly. I am Raijin on Xbox and Fujin on PS5 , never demoted on either 85% win rate on Xbox and 89% on PS5. My guess is if I hit Tekken King I'll finally start meeting folks that consistently beat my ass once my Prowess makes the big jump..
That’s a bingo lol
And your guys are really a pain in the ass cos I have 45% of win ratio at fujin, so why are you on the same rank as me, cos I win against some players at kishin raijin fujin, and other in same rank I lose against them without any chance, so I go to Fujin got promotion match at raijing then I starT losing in a row go back to battle ruler and then go back to fujin cos I was matched with people with 90 of attack and defense, sometimes at much lower rank than me, doesn't make any sense
Tekken's ranked system needs a complete overhaul. It needs to copy something similar to Street Fighter 6, IMO. SF6 does a decent enough job of keeping weak players away from strong players and has an elo system takeover after you reach the max rank.
I'm just sick of going into ranked w/ my secondary and being stuck fighting ppl between 400,000 prowess and 120,000 prowess. I'm NEVER ranking up vs either of them because one is always better and the other doesn't give me enough points.
I have a Yoshi in kishin with 198k prowess. I try to learn jun right know. With her i am shinryu but I had to Play a fujin Jin with 260k prowess
I got 2 toons to fujin I literally fight tekken gods to garyus literally rng at this point
I was a destroyer rank going up against kishins and purple ranks 😢
Great video and great analysis!!
Be aware though that this graph takes data only out of matches so it does account only the active players that played at least one match and got scouted by the code.
It does not account for all the players that are not playing at the moment, in this second case you get higher values on all the first 10 ranks, and you get a +10% in the "beginner" column.
This said, everything you said is absolutely true and the tendencies stay the same in both graphs.
By the 1.08 changes are band aid in my opinion😅
Yeah it’s a sample of the real population data. In science we almost never have full population data to draw logical conclusions from
First video ive seen of yours and yeah, banger, keep it up.
Welcome aboard!
You know what's crazy I bet someone could tank the rank on every other character on purpose to make ranked easier on their main 😂
I'm still stuck in the red ranks but I tend to stay away from ranked for the most part, at best playing a set or two at a time. More often than not, I'm matched at purple ranks with 20k more prowess (am at 125k).
Truthfully, I'm inexperienced at some matchups, and will get stomped by certain characters.
I think it looks like this because ranks of people never get resetted. Many people achieved some rank in the beginning stages of the game and never play again. I'm atm one of them, because I had other things to do. Got to red ranks and haven't had time to play myself a lot anymore, so I don't feel confident to hop on ranked as my combos are rusty etc.
This hypothesis can probably be backed by the fact that most spikes are near the beginning of a new color bracket. People get to orange and want to stay orange or to red and want to stay red. The safest way to stay red after you've achieved red is to not play anymore.
Another fact that can back up this hypothesis is that the game had many more players around release. So these are a significant number of people that could be in those ranks and have stopped playing. Thus, it can be logical that this curve has not flattened yet.
This could also mean that these spikes would not exist if you would only consider players that are active players. Sadly, we have no data to confirm or dismiss that.
It could also be argued that the curve will never flatten. Because even new players may make it up to red, get beaten down to yellow and make it back to red again, and then they stop playing ranked to not lose that rank again. So, one could make the point that these starting ranks of a colored bracket are more popular to hold onto for that reason and there will always be players trying to get there and stay there.
To fix this, one would need a reset of the ranks.
Or a better solution would be to introduce a season ranking system in addition or show ranks for the last X amount of time (for example last month, last 3 months etc.). This way people could keep their ranks and we'd have a better way of interpreting the stats and the strengths of players.
In summary, that could also lead to the conclusion that the ranking system is not broken or not as broken as it looks. Because among the active players it probably works better than the cumulative all-time stats are able to show. Note, for a matchmaking system to work well, it also needs enough players among all ranks.
This table only is active players fyi
@@TrickyEileen Thank you.
I went and checked how the data is collected.
So, only the argumentation that some ranks are more popular still holds. Or can't be refuted as easily so far from the information I have at this point.
I guess another reason could also be that people who are about to lose their bracket color try harder to not rank down.
Or the ranking algorithm is not designed to reflect a gaussian distribution. Maybe they have created an algorithm that emphasizes those brackets more.
Or there's a problem with either the collection of the data or the server doesn't provide the full data.
I have calculated the average of the color brackets from yellow to blue:
Yellow: 2.86
Orange: 3.05
Red: 6.66
Purple: 6.31
Blue: 5.28
That is reflecting some kind of a gaussian distribution. Probably, the rankings are only skewed among the same color for some reason or the other.
The difference between orange and red is still huge as is expected from the data.
Going back and forth between purple and red doesn't seem like a big surprise, because they're pretty near to each other on average. Staying in blue is another big step it seems as it has a significant difference to purple.
@@MaviLeb Notquitefactual has a github. you can look at the raw data and do analysis there. I'd recommend using that instead of this graph to draw conclusions.
You're welcome to have a differing hypothesis tho so enjoy your digging into this
Very informative & helpful video 🎮🕹🙏🏾
What's the song at 11:45? Also great vid it explains a lot about current rank. It would be interesting to see if things get fixed in v.1
08
Ky theme from Korean version of Guilty Gear x2
honestly I think i am going to start doing 1 and dones
Hit Fujin for the first time, demoted back to mighty ruler within a single day and after 4 months just today made it back to battle ruler haha ( tho I have to say that I barerly played for 2 of those months)
Damn this is so entertaining!
raw! well deserved sub incoming
Fantastic format! Also agreed Fujin way too high. The climb felt easy. I'm bushin playing the game very lightly (leo)
Good video! Wish the music was a bit lower or your voice higher (volume-wise), as a non native I had to focus a little bit sometimes to clearly understand. Nothing wrong with your speech though, just volume of the music/your voice. Great content, quite original. Keep it up!
Do the subtitles not help with that?
@@TrickyEileen I often have this kind of video/podcast etc. on second monitor and mostly listen, I just thought the music was a little bit too loud. But it seems I'm the only one complaining so you should not worry too much about it I guess.
Tekken 8 weather.
What's the solution though?
Prowess messes up the rank distribution, but it keeps skill level consistent while playing ranked. Without including prowess we might see much larger swings in skill from match to match because of alt characters. Maybe the right system depends on the % of players that play multiple characters. If 50% of the player base plays on alt characters ranked becomes chaos. If it's only 5% games would still be pretty consistent.
The solution is to not use prowess to match make. If someone is good enough to blow throw low ranks on an alt they’re going to rank up and let the less skilled players stay at their rank as they learn the game organically.
Plenty of other games have great rank systems. This is a totally solved problem
@@TrickyEileen That's why I mentioned that maybe it depends on the % that play alts. If you're playing ranked and every 10 matches you run into someone that completely dominates you that's fine.
But if 50% of the player base likes to jump around to different characters that 10 matches could shrink down to every 3 matches you get completely dominated. IMO that would suck more than the current system.
IDK, I'd like to see changes too, but maybe they know something we don't...they get paid to think about this and have all the data.
3:42 i think that's the exact reason why so many players at the start of each color (red, purple, blue). Me personally, i proved to myself that i am good at the game (mind better than 50%) and i checked out. Now i only stick to rare casual matches or play something else.
may not be a majority thing but its def there. im kinda in the same shoes but atp id label myself hardstuck on accident LOL
There are a ton of players like you, and there are also players who stop at specific ranks to farm easier wins in Quick Match. I think it's foolish (no offense Eileen) to look at rank distribution and assume that all of these people are still actively trying to climb. Flawed premise!
When you reach a new color, the point reward and loss ratio becomes worse. The lowest purple and highest red play similar players, but at a specific win percentage, let's say 40-42%, the red will gradually move towards promotion, while the purple will gradually move towards demotion. The 2nd rank in a color is the hardest to achieve.
What does look really weird in that graph is the blue ranks. You could argue it's because it's the true median point of the rank system, but Fujin itself shouldn't stand out that much. I think what we're seeing is a mix of prowess shenanigans and the upper ranks being squeezed together (not enough ranks blue and above). Basically, purple and blue, especially mid to upper blues are night and day. But many Fujins are true purples who promoted by playing mostly against purples and similarly skilled low rank Fujins. But in Fujin, they get introduced to Raijin and Kishin players and many of them are competitive with veterans in Tekken King.
When it comes to prowess, it has a tendency to kick players who are down. If you get demoted, you no longer is rewarded with weaker opponents like in T7. Since prowess makes it harder to regain a rank, it makes all the skill gap walls in the ranking system much harder to overcome, and getting out of Fujin seems to be the biggest skill gap wall currently. The problem is that they need maybe 6 ranks more between Fujin and the golden ranks.
@@pite9this hits it. There neeed to be more ranks in the blue and golden tier. The top end of the graph is looking odd.
Even if everyone wasn’t trying to get better this data should look like a bell curve and it doesn’t. This is the exact type of data that should be normally distributed. This accounts for all hypothetical (people aren’t trying to get better). That’s fine, they won’t rank up then. The table should still be normally distributed unless there is some moderating factor preventing it from looking such
I wonder what happens if you rank multiple characters up to lets say the last purple rank and hit about 230k prowess that way (having like 6-9 characters right before fujin). Will u already be in the higher tier of MMR or do u actually have to hit tekken king to be in that section?
Yes you will jump to the real tekken player tier faster
If I make it to blue rank I will stop...playing ranked. I dunno whats up with the game but I feel like the tracking for this game is broken.
I love your 'weather forecasts'. Very entertaining! 😂 I hope to get out of red ranks some day.
I have faith in you, took me forever to get to purple ranks and everytime I log on I get close to deranking😂
So does it means i dont actually suck for being stuck between tenryu and mighty ruler for 3 months and counting?
I loved T7 but T8 burned me immediately out, the game is way too oppressive, the combo and conversions are ridiculous and ranked got worse due to no deathmatches.
Maybe it gets better in Season 2/3 but I'm out, someone at Bamco has to do properly play ranked and fix the big obvious issues with the game asap.
Don't know. Rank system isn't that good and in the next patch bamco will change a little how rank points are earned, but other things should be considered: there isn't a rank decay or reset; once you reach a rank and you stop playing the game you would stay there no matter what. Number of player of T8 is decreasing from the beginning so there are player freezed in a various ranks that false the overall data. With a rank reset or decay you will have a more realistic view of rank distribution. You are supposing that every player that has tried ranks for a while continue to play rank forever and doesn't quit the mode.
im a kishin nina now i hit 200k prowess finally and it was def a green light to be to manhandled by tekken gods
lol either on their alts or just cuz the main matchmaking is kinda bad. They at least are addressing the second issue. But who knows if they will address the first.
In oce servers we play the same person at least 5 to 7 times in a row buuuut with at least a 10 to 20 minutes queue time searching for an opponent just to get matched with the same player you either beat or gotten beaten by. It's actually so bad. Then you get the odd ranked matchup with players in different servers and I'll either ignore cause lag will be bad or I'll accept outta pure boredom waiting for these trash queue times then not rematch cause of lag 😂. What I'm saying is alot of the oce players are casual players in ranked and not as skilled to know the game as well as the players in oce who literally are on 24/7 😂
Wow never knew how bad it was in those servers
honestly what do you expect with lousy 5k reaccuring or rather consistent players? i bet with the 20k of sf6 you wouldnt have that much of a problem
@@theanti-hypemonitor9079 I don’t recall tekken 7 having this issue and it had smaller avg players even at the good times. I don’t think it’s just that
@@theanti-hypemonitor9079 tbh I don't like street fighter never really been a fan I like the animated movies but that's all.
@@TrickyEileen yup pretty poor over here. And majority of players have multiple accounts with different mains 😂 so there's so smurfs everywhere even gargamel would have a fit 🤣
great video
I subscribed immediately
This cant be right i got to tekkenking in 3 days after getting the game like a week ago. I dont use the heat system at all and haven't labbed a single t8 character. I learned literally one basic hopkick and ws king combo and flew threw ranks. I just assumed everyome was tekken god already because ranked is mad easy. Yes iv been playing sweaty tekken ranked since 6 but this by far is the easiest ranked since then easily.
You already have the skills needed to get to where you got to. Those of us learning have a different experience and the current data really supports that. If you’re still learning the game, the current matchmaking is horrible for that.
in short.....prowess match making ruined rank
It could have been good if they at least put more priority on your rank instead of seeming to filter by prowess first then your rank.
@@TrickyEileen very true... Honestly I believe Fujin saturation is because there are people who don't wanna increase their prowess anymore.. but that's just me
I came here to hear about your explanation about ranked matches. But now I find myself not caring anymore because I find your voice immaculate. I will listen to the rest of this video as ASMR when I'm ready to sleep. 🙏
Lol
3:40 that’s exactly what’s happening though…. These graphs mirror the rank distribution from T7. People reach a color they feel comfortable stopping at, and stop playing rank. Blue rank is generally considered the start of “high rank”, that’s why most players stop at Fujin.
And the big slope at the end is because the lack of ranks and the sudden harsh point reduction for losing.
The harsh point reduction and way you get points is also an issue. Lucky that’s being fixed next week. We will see how things change
Omg Eileen dropped a banger
😍😍
great video
The other Reason the Fujin bar is so high is because when you hit Blue you now lose way more point to losing to ranks efffing higher than you than losing to ranks below you .... which is stupid enough before you hit the 230k gate ..... but gets elavated to a new level of Wank when you go through the 230K gate because you are now fighting MUCH better players ranking up a pocket character, AND dealing with the wank points system ..... lets hope the 1.08 patch fixes this Bollox ..... or at least takes the edge of it.
I was Bushin 230K prowess last video, I've hit Tekken King and shot up to 265K prowess instantly!
Dropped to Kishin so fast. I'm now Kishin with 263K prowess 😂
Wish people would talk about prowess more. They say they're improving the match making but didn't mention prowess at all. An MMR system where you can't go down? Who thought this was a good idea?
damn I dont think I've ever seen anyone really break down brackets like that, super fascinating.
New subscriber here.
Everything you’re saying is spot on. My biggest problem is definitely the matchmaking prowess.
I just hit Tekken God but my prowess is 262K. No way in hell should I be matching up with 430K prowess.
Oh I'm already aware that Ranked mode in Tekken 8 is a nightmare ALL of my biggest struggles and most progress lost in ALL of Tekken 8 is ALL in Ranked mode.
The rest of it is easy by comparison almost laughably so.
I've reached the Dead zones already and its a nightmare
The peaks are two types of hell "Red Rank hell" and "Blue rank hell" I've been exploring the "Red Rank hell" I might make it to purple one day and maybe Blue hell
I DOUBT I'll EVER escape Blue hell if I get there even once.
The Tekken prowess is fucked, I pub stumped all the way to Raijin, now I’m hard stuck in between fujin and Raijin. And I know this is a normal place to get stuck in. But now I’m vs actual killers I vs in tekken 7 who was tekken god and above in 7.
Also I took me years to hit fujin in tekken 7, soo it’s strange how easy it is to hit blue in tekken 8.
Ps now I finished the video, I’m in ranked 2.0 without hitting king 😭 I’m cursed to be forever in blue.
From my experience, Wavu Wank's mmr calculation is far more accurate. I am a hardstuck Shinryu and man is it so discouraging to play, and when I look at their mmr in wavuwank I always say "that makes sense."
I’m at Tekken King but have been fluctuating between TK and Bushin/other blue ranks for several months now. This “hidden level” of blue ranks who are actually just alts for Tekken Gods - Gods of Destruction basically has me hard stuck. I don’t want to complain because the game is supposed to be competitive and difficult, but the reward to punishment ratio for wins and losses just feels wayyyyy off when you get to this level. Like if I saw as many normal blue ranks as I do players whose highest rank is Tekken Emperor/higher I’d definitely be Tekken Emperor by now. And I don’t one-and-done or anything but it’s gotten so bad that I almost don’t blame other players for one and done-ing if I run right through them and they care about not losing a ton of points for going on a losing streak.
Maybe they should insert challenges in each rank where they become more difficult as you progress, but they help you build your skills (like the combo challenges in practice mode), and that allows you to rank up in a way where you can more easily come across players at a similar skill level as you (because they'll have a comparative amount of challenges completed to you). So someone who's completed 30 challenges wouldn't be randomly thrown up against someone who's completed like 200 challenges. It could be things like "Counter this type of string 150 times in online matches", "Parry this character's snake edge kick 100 times in online matches", etc. Basically assign character-specific challenges that help you train against that particular character so you can then learn how to deal with them in the future battles. Idk, maybe that sounds dumb or it'd be considered too much hand holding or too much micro-management from the development side. Just throwing the idea out there.
Glad i stumbled upon this video, as a 240k+ prowess player the matchmaking experience has kicked my ass. Hit tekken king and never actually faced other tekken kings, i fought GoD on their 5th character with 400K prowess, eventually i got demoted a bit to kishin and now its a guessing matchmaking, i either stomp a true blue or face another demoted gold or fight tekken gods and up on alt characters, really miserable sometimes
Was stuck at garyu since like launch. Up my game last month and got to tenryu only to be knocked right down back to garyu lol. Took a break. I'll try again with Heihachis launch.
It's so painful. But I'm glad to know it's not because I just completely suck
This is some bullsh*t! Lol I feel the same way. Finally got fujin. I'm tenryu today 😮💨
I realized this the first time i reached Fujin. It was more than just fighting players of a higher rank, they were a different skill caliber.
I noticed it again when I reached Tekken King. It even seems to impact quick match. It's like you get moved to a different "bracket" of players once your prowess reaches a certain point.
I do feel that I get matched with players who have prowess at least 100K higher than mine more than someone of equal prowess.
Once I made to Tekken King with Kazuya I went back to flame ruler because I had been getting people with crazy defense and mashers and had Jun at Kishin and wend down toFujin but in Quick Match I get people who are in my skill level
My story: i was ranking up, i was excited to be in blue ranks, when i hit fujin it felt good, i got raijin, i couldn’t believe it, when i got kishin i was feeling good about myself, when i reached bushin, i was like damn!! at this point i was super focused trying not to tilt, i already knew tekken king or even tekken emperor people were gonna be super good, one day i was focused a lot, making reads, everything worked out. I got tekken king, prowess went up to 240k. Now i’m getting stomped, and i hang around bushin or kishin. I can’t get tekken king anymore. And the sweats are insane. There are a few wack players at tekken king, but not many i can say for sure.
I’m just happy to be at the ranks i am and not be demoted back to fujin or eternal, that would be the worst.
the prowess system wouldnt be a problem if the point system for wining would be better and it would take into account ur as well to average the point rewards. . She is also not wrong i get frustrated because i cant rank up to blue and progress time to play with my red rank and i laugh because i didnt realize now i was making it hell for the actual red main but am trying to level another character so sucks for him and it would suck for me when i actually get match up with a better purple in disguise or god of destructionn in disguise. Hopefully this new update will do something but thats rank now.
remember when warrior and then at the end of season 4, genbu were the only peaks in tekken 7 ranked. The old rank system was perfect for keeping people in their actual skill bracket, rank point gain and decrease were consistent as well and the stupid promoting sending you to the half point of the next rank didnt exist either.
My friend plays king and can beat players higher ranked (in player matches not ranked) than him sometimes but is still stuck in orange ranks. Any advice?
He also has above average prowess for his rank because he constantly demoted and is now scared to hit ranked 😂
@@hands-ongaming7180 Orange ranks? He can start by blocking.. You can beat most players at those ranks by just blocking and punishing because nobody respects the frames
@@Frvnklin i tell him that bro but I think he just never knows when it’s his turn. And yeah bro orange ranks 😅 im blue ranks myself
I just got this game a few days ago and I'm absolutely terrible. I probably won't even get to that first orange line less yet the red one hahaha