I think KF is on the money 90% of the time, so I'm not being a hater here. But I think you guys are way over estimating how good of a game Veilguard was. It had good elements like the character creation and environmental design, but the overall experience was pretty poor imo, mostly thanks to abysmal writting and a divorce from player choice compared to the older games. 1.5 million is like 700k more than I thought it would sell.
I agree. I got it via gamefly and sent it back after a couple hours. I thought the combat was really boring and the story didn't grab me. I feel like if this didn't say "Dragon Age" KF would have given this 6's and 7's across the board.
I honestly dont see how this is relevant ot keep parroting when its EA itself who is using the 1.5 million number. Clearly they don't see much of a difference between "reach" and "sales."
Me and my gf have been dragon Age fans since the start. Watching the trailers for Veilguard made me believe the game wasn't for me. My gf played it and thought the same. Like, Greg has said how he wasn't a Dragon Age fan before, but he loves veilguard. Is that not enough proof that the Dragon Age game wasn't aimed at Dragon Age fans?
I think it’s more to do with the games media bubble that they inhabit. There was so much positivity about the game from the media pre release that they all convinced themselves it was a better game than it actually was. It was that simple really. It is not the first time that kind of thing happened, and it certainly won’t be the last. In fact the same thing even happened with Inquisition. Yes that may have been a better game than Veilguard, but it won GOTY at the Game Awards and I don’t think anyone who was being honest would say it deserved it, especially in the same year that Divinity Original Sin was released (A much better RPG that wasn’t even nominated).
I don’t know why anyone is surprised dragon age didn’t sell well. People didn’t like the art style, people didn’t like the writing, characters. Some people liked it, but it’s NO surprise to me as a fan of Origins and Inquisition. This failed because people didn’t like what they made. BioWare hasn’t made a success in a decade.
Seriously... people need to admit that a lot of gamers just weren't happy with the direction the game went. Include previous failures like Andromeda and Anthem, it's pretty plain to see what happened here. Even KF seem to be in a bubble with it.
My wife is a massive dragon age fan. Played 1-3 about 10 times and watches all the lore videos etc. She stopped playing DAV about 10 hours in. She said it's just not dragon age.
It’s very hard for a game to overcome legitimate issues from being in dev hell for so long (though I still think it came together much better than I expected) AND rage-bait campaigns against it. Games that are absolutely amazing will probably be able to weather the rage still, but anything with legitimate flaws will just be crushed by it. I worry that the lesson learned won’t be “don’t put a game through dev hell and pivot direction a dozen times” but rather “don’t make high budget single player games”. Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, Avowed, Intergalactic, and a few other games that are already being targeted with nonsense have a lot on their shoulders now, I think. If they aren’t nearly flawless and still able to break through the rage-bait, I worry that a lot of publishers will just take their ball and go home.
FC 25 is a disaster. It's as buggy as ever, the gameplay doesn't innovate in any interesting ways, and the gameplay at launch was so terrible they had to put out a massive update to "fix" it, which they just released months after launch. On top of that, Ultimate Team is a complete waste of time, matchmaking has been proven to be broken, and grinding for packs just isn't fun at all. EA will learn nothing though and just slap a bunch of superficial "improvements" on FC 26 to try and get their numbers back up
Dragon age not doing well is to be expected. They should have just made a true love letter to Origins fans, not this "for modern audiences" crap. If they try to pull the same thing with Mass Effect then it'll bomb too. Real old school DA and Mass Effect fans deserve better.
the game obviously sucked, how is this a shock. They should have rewritten the entire dragon age game to not cater to the disney community - horrible horrible writing
So firstly, its only 1.5 million players reached, not copies sold. So it could be even worse. Definitely think Kinda Funny and a few other critics are a little off the money with Veilguard. Its writing and character work is absolutely appalling, and after finishing it, I actually didn't even think it would hit 1mil copies sold. Seeing the Kinda Funny panel praise its writing felt like I was living in crazy land just because of how poor it can be at points.
These ppl are living in the same echo chamber that thinks that political agenda driven games can sell. I remember Greg said “oh if you’re a bigot - this game is not for you” in his stream. I think many ppl just don’t like this being rubbed in their faces. As a result - they don’t buy the game. The reality is cyberpunk and BG3 are equally diverse and inclusive - but they sell. Who doesn’t like Judy? Everyone does. BioWare’s DEI is just a box ticking exercise.
Bit of a Taika Waititi paraphrasing I like as we both share the same Cultural up bringing. "I don't like tokenism and forced inclusion growing up i don't recall seeing one of every race together ever." So yeah the tick box analogy holds up. And the worse part is they are written in the most racist bigoted narrowed view points of all time. Black - strong intelligent usually female Asian - strong intelligent usually female SA - strong intelligent usually female White - evil usually man definitely hetro closet gay. Makes enjoying media pretty hard when I know the beginning middle end of a story because of what they look like.
I appreciate Barrett’s rebuking Mike’s idea that kids are gonna buy PC’s going forward. Mike must not pay attention to the reality of how hard it is to earn money for most people these days. The reason the Series S is two-thirds of Series console sales is affordability. The reason Switch Lite took off as soon as it came out is affordability. $700 for a PC as good as a PS5 (as Mike suggests) is *not* affordable for most families getting their kid a gaming device.
Exactly! My 10-year old daughter has been asking about getting a gaming PC. I may get her a Switch 1, when the 2 releases and the price hopefully drops. We have a PS5, and that's enough.
@@christopherstuart5408 supporting that game basically meant practically coding the bones entirely. Systems and stats among other things only worked visually. Almost nothing worked under the hood. They weren’t willing to drop the amount of money necessary to make that game work. I don’t blame them. They never would have got enough people to come back to recoup the costs.
The kids definitely want PCs now. They’ll settle for the cheaper PS5, but they want and will work toward getting a PC. All of my nieces and nephews want PCs and desk setups.
Games as a service is definitely hurting majority of these titles’ sales. So many people spend most of their time playing Fortnite, Warzone, Apex, Destiny, Overwatch etc. and no longer have time to explore other games. Ad a result, sales for games go down. Couple this with subscription services and higher game prices and the lower sales makes sense
I think the name change had to effect FC! Not the only problem, but seeing this slump coincide with the name change has to be related at least in part.
They were dancing around it but you can’t undersell how damaging skill up and Mattyplays reviews were for DAV. They were amongst the first to review it and “hated” the game and did not pull any punches.
I literally just said this in another comment lmao but they didn’t even mention the woke scene that was shown off in every review and opinion piece. I got it on sale but I’m going in knowing it’s not going to have a mind blowing story and It’s also my first dragon age
I played Dragon Age and it was very forgetful. Not bad by any means but not great enough to justify its budget. Almost no word of mouth to go play it doesnt help
FC25 isn’t just under performing because it’s a lazy yearly update, it’s a fundamentally broken game in almost every conceivable way from the servers to the gameplay. It’s literally one of the worst football games ever made.
I don’t think the online outrage over Dragon Age was nearly as impactful as people make it out to be. Sure, it may have resulted in fewer copies to be sold, but not enough for the game to miss its internal target by nearly 50%. That’s a sign that the game wasn’t what people were looking for
They wanted to sell 3 million copies. Instead, EA admitted, that there was 1,5 million „unique interactions” with the game. Some people played this game, after getting it through subscription and on sale. So the actual sales numbers are way lower, than 1,5 million.
If dragon age kept gender ideology out of their game it probably would’ve hit the mark. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s right or if it’s wrong, as we can see in the elections people are just fed up with it. and this is coming from someone that doesn’t care about gender politics. Keep sensitive topics of games and you probably won’t lose money on your game.
@@javik01 Lol no. The problem was that they treated the lore and writing like shit. When that should be the number one priority. The Identity of Dragon Age games is based on its rich lore and they ignored it and made it bland. If you remove "gender ideology" noting about the game improves.
I stopped buying FIFA/FC games at release years ago and just buy later on at half price or less. I haven’t really enjoyed anything as much as “The Journey” which was from 8 years ago.
The issue is Dragon Age Veilguard was written like a young adult novel, zero gore or edge to it which is VEEEERY different to the rest of the series. Everyone I know that loves the other games fucking hated this game and those are not the awful "Anti-woke" crowd either. The art style was objectively worse and the UI looked like a mobile game. I think it hit for Greg because of all the things it had but he isn't a core market fan. It felt like they wanted to make a different fantasy game but planted Dragon Age on the front of it.
This is a problem of games from the last 7-8 years. They’re written like kindergarten for adults. Media like KF will dance around this issue because they are friends with the people writing this slop, but the social justice, therapy speak is a huge turnoff for mainstream audiences.
I agree with Tim. I worry that Gamepass will have a long-term negative effect on the games industry. I remember in the early days of Netflix when they would produce consistently quality shows to get people on their service, similar to how Xbox is doing right now. Now, Netflix pumps out disposable content to just refresh their library. The one thing that gives me hope is that Microsoft are still selling games, which means it does offer them another revenue stream.
Free to play games are the ones doing "more damage" to the games industry when you take a look of the top 20 or 10 games actively played. Lots of games that were released years ago still hanging on.
But you still have to pay to even access Game Pass. Xbox pays them to be in the service and gets engagement bonuses. It’s silly to say it ruins the industry. If you don’t want to use Game Pass, the option to buy the game outright is still there.
With prices going up people are less likely to take a chance on games and raising those prices is only going to exacerbate the problem. The reason why Indie titles are selling millions of copies compared to some bigger AAA titles comes down to pricing. No constantly rising in price subscription service is going to fix that. Really wish AMD showed off their new gpus because this 50 Series isn't anything exciting this is basically a Plus ver. of the 40 series.
Veilguard was the only game in the series I didn’t snap up day one, I waited and boy am I happy I did. I haven’t heard much good at all about it. Great show! Love you lot!
Also i think FC is just going through growing pains of the name change, holiday sales would have hurt them from the non gamer crowd who no doubt looked for FIFA not FC.
Yea I didn't like the writing and story in Veilguard (I did buy it though). I think the nerdier the game, the more "word of mouth" and "my friend said it wasn't good" matters. Fantasy fans are picky compared to most fan bases.
The only Dragon Age I actually enjoyed was DA2. Inquisition was a big miss for a lot of people, and it was a long time ago. Dragon Age has also never been on the Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls level of success. But also budgets are definitely out of whack, this endless quest for growth eventually has a cliff. I think many devs and publishers would be happy with 1.5 million players in 2 months, and I hope the games industry can get to a place where that isnt looked at as a failure.
It's weird to hear xbox get props because they dont care about console sales when they did, in fact, care about console sales when the generation started but were forced to pivot because of their failure.
Tim, Roblox etc changed everything. Every kid in my family all want a PC above anything else. Didn't Steam have more people play on it than PlayStation just recently? PC is already bigger than console.
dragon age underperforming is sad, I put 100-ish hours into it and I liked it enough but I didn't finish it, the common criticism of the dialogue I kinda get, my main complaint is the world building in the game, there was no like "realistic world building" the pirate faction that didn't steal cultural relics, it felt way too modern hopefully if we ever get a follow up or another dragon age game they go back to the more "darker" fantasy with political drama and more complex themes, like religion and how corrupt and stuff it can be was a major part in the first 3 and its just missing in DAV
The word of mouth is the same as ever. If a game is good then it will sell well. If a game sucks, then it will likely flop. If social media trashing a game alone despite how good a game is held true then games like Hogwarts Legacy would have crashed hard. Yes, Hogwarts could have gotten more sales but the overall market doesn’t care what some person said on social media. There are so many good games out there to play, back logs getting bigger and bigger. We are getting smarter with what we invest our time and money in. We have so much media, demos, and other ways to learn if a game is worth our time. When we see games like Star Wars Outlaws in action, I don’t care if someone said they loved it. I can see with my own eyes that this game is not for me. If you are using social media to inform your decision, it’s usually backed by highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of a game. Reputable reviewers that aligns with your tastes. I’m a little surprised that Mike thought it was good to great. I think that just because you like something that it doesn’t meant it’s great. I liked Dynasty Warriors 2 on the PS2 but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not for everyone. I can see the flaws of the game myself but still liked my time with it. How is that not the discussion instead of sending mixed signals of “game is great”. It’s not.
It is not and has never been true that there is a correlation between games being good and games selling well. Amazing games don't sell well all the time. Your logic is fallacious.
I don't care how much you tell me people love Dragon Age, this franchise is not what people want right now. The masses are not asking for a new Dragon Age right now. And all the dragon age fans who see this can tell me how bad they wanted it, the majority DO NOT and the numbers show. It is not related to gameplay or writing no matter what fans will say.
Dragon Age The Veilguard just wasn’t a good Dragon Age game. Dragon Age players knew that coming in and some stayed away because of it. Then trying to bring in new players when some of the bashing gets out (like Tim said, word of mouth can hurt as much as help). It just got it from both ends. They could’ve made a that game as an entirely different IP and no one would’ve questioned it.
I stand by the reason a lot of games aren't making the sales is because of price increases on triple A. These days I spend less on video games than i ever have because all the biggest ones are asking more than i want to pay, and rather than pick one, i end up doing the easy thing and picking none. 10 years ago i was paying £40 for brand new AAA games. £50 at most. Now they're consistently asking up to £60-70. £70 is $87. £60 is still $74. It's just not affordable to jump into any random triple A title anymore. They've made it so i wait, and only buy the best ones. I have no doubt i'd enjoy dragon age, but i'm still waiting for a price drop on stellar blade, spiderman 2, astrobot. The way i see it, they're doing this to themselves.
guys stop acting so stupid i love you guys but just stop. it didnt sell because of the woke shit. people arent buying it it doesnt matter how you feel about the issue people buying it dont want it in there games its that simple. i also bought it but the customers are always right they are telling you what they do and dont want in the games. just dont put it in a fantasy game people dont want it in there its so simple it doesnt matter how u feel about it the people dont want it
Fifa/fc25. Is it cause fifa isn't in the name? Tim, perfect question.... Mike shockingly bad response. Yearly and proven that parents/grandparents buy the new fifa as a xmas present. Oh, no fifa... another random crap present is bought instead. Once take two releases their fifa 26 title. Top of the tree due parents/grandparents going...oh the new fifa, they want that.
Not every video needs to cost 200 million no game needs to cost that much you're bloating out games adding needless cost the industry just needs a reset for games like here's 80 million make a game you'll have better quality and more innovation more money spent doesn't mean better game it's the complete opposite
The FC comments are cringe. The Olympics has no impact on FIFA, and the World Cup is every four years. If you don’t know the topic just cover something different!
You need a guy on who plays sports games religiously Eafc is failing for a lot of reasons UT in EAFC has peaked yes, but they keep screwing up Pro-clubs and career mode Another is general gameplay where they were still doing patches in eafc24 a month before Eafc 25 came out They just build code on top of code each yr instead of taking a yr off gutting the whole thing In some years they bring stuff they had in game years ago and bring it back as a “New Feature” Madden and NHL have the same problems Other then NCAA which they just brought back, the rest of there bread and butter aka sports gms will be flat at best
this dragon age news shouldn't surprise anyone, people are saving their dollars for must plays. the golden age of games is done, companies have gotta make bangers for people to invest in their product. choosing between a mediocre game and a fancy meal, cost of living wont let me choose both
yeah 'many factors' why veliguard fail expectations. Sure! how about their approach of these character being 'politically correct' and 'inclusive'? BioWare really develop a game for certain audiences not all audiences. Clearly.
I feel like most conversations around Veilguard was how it sucked, and a lot of that was from core fans. I know I beat it twice and I would give it a 6/10. I'm not surprised it didn't sell well
Believe it or not but the “woke” and “anti woke” crowd in video games ain’t that big. Game just looks bland and did not have the soul of previous dragon age games that’s why it got a meh reaction with the majority
53:45
Tim and Mike: talking
Voice of God: *WE'RE ALL GOING TO PLAYSTATION.*
Tim and Mike: _silence_
I think KF is on the money 90% of the time, so I'm not being a hater here. But I think you guys are way over estimating how good of a game Veilguard was. It had good elements like the character creation and environmental design, but the overall experience was pretty poor imo, mostly thanks to abysmal writting and a divorce from player choice compared to the older games. 1.5 million is like 700k more than I thought it would sell.
I agree. I got it via gamefly and sent it back after a couple hours. I thought the combat was really boring and the story didn't grab me. I feel like if this didn't say "Dragon Age" KF would have given this 6's and 7's across the board.
Except, it didn't sell 1.5 million - the wording was 'players engaged'
To this day, neither EA nor Bioware revealed a single sale digit
Reaching 1.5 million players doesn’t mean selling 1.5 million copies. People sign up for EA play lol
@@MB18YT and there is a tier of EA play that gives a 5 hour demo. I bet they counted that as well.
I honestly dont see how this is relevant ot keep parroting when its EA itself who is using the 1.5 million number. Clearly they don't see much of a difference between "reach" and "sales."
@@LowSkillPlays trust brother they know the difference between Reach and Sales, if they don't there share holders Jeff's do
Me and my gf have been dragon Age fans since the start. Watching the trailers for Veilguard made me believe the game wasn't for me. My gf played it and thought the same.
Like, Greg has said how he wasn't a Dragon Age fan before, but he loves veilguard.
Is that not enough proof that the Dragon Age game wasn't aimed at Dragon Age fans?
I think it’s more to do with the games media bubble that they inhabit. There was so much positivity about the game from the media pre release that they all convinced themselves it was a better game than it actually was. It was that simple really.
It is not the first time that kind of thing happened, and it certainly won’t be the last. In fact the same thing even happened with Inquisition. Yes that may have been a better game than Veilguard, but it won GOTY at the Game Awards and I don’t think anyone who was being honest would say it deserved it, especially in the same year that Divinity Original Sin was released (A much better RPG that wasn’t even nominated).
@@BasketCase-rr7tx CRPGs were still VERY niche when original sin came out. I would say OS2 is what finally sort of opened up the genre a bit.
I don’t know why anyone is surprised dragon age didn’t sell well. People didn’t like the art style, people didn’t like the writing, characters. Some people liked it, but it’s NO surprise to me as a fan of Origins and Inquisition.
This failed because people didn’t like what they made.
BioWare hasn’t made a success in a decade.
Cuz echo chambers had people thinking alot of people loved it.
@@elcapitan2293 youre a joke lmao, stuff like this is why your mom is so dissapointed in you
Seriously... people need to admit that a lot of gamers just weren't happy with the direction the game went. Include previous failures like Andromeda and Anthem, it's pretty plain to see what happened here. Even KF seem to be in a bubble with it.
My wife is a massive dragon age fan. Played 1-3 about 10 times and watches all the lore videos etc. She stopped playing DAV about 10 hours in. She said it's just not dragon age.
It’s very hard for a game to overcome legitimate issues from being in dev hell for so long (though I still think it came together much better than I expected) AND rage-bait campaigns against it. Games that are absolutely amazing will probably be able to weather the rage still, but anything with legitimate flaws will just be crushed by it. I worry that the lesson learned won’t be “don’t put a game through dev hell and pivot direction a dozen times” but rather “don’t make high budget single player games”.
Kingdom Come Deliverance 2, Avowed, Intergalactic, and a few other games that are already being targeted with nonsense have a lot on their shoulders now, I think. If they aren’t nearly flawless and still able to break through the rage-bait, I worry that a lot of publishers will just take their ball and go home.
We were told to vote with our wallet
And gamers still don't take the advice. AAA is still AAA and nobody is buying indie. womp womp
FC 25 is a disaster. It's as buggy as ever, the gameplay doesn't innovate in any interesting ways, and the gameplay at launch was so terrible they had to put out a massive update to "fix" it, which they just released months after launch. On top of that, Ultimate Team is a complete waste of time, matchmaking has been proven to be broken, and grinding for packs just isn't fun at all. EA will learn nothing though and just slap a bunch of superficial "improvements" on FC 26 to try and get their numbers back up
Dragon age not doing well is to be expected. They should have just made a true love letter to Origins fans, not this "for modern audiences" crap. If they try to pull the same thing with Mass Effect then it'll bomb too. Real old school DA and Mass Effect fans deserve better.
It was a love letter to DA 2 (with somehow less choices) which unfortunately was the worst one in the series lol.
@@SadCaligula that's like saying getting hate fucked is romantic
It doesn't matter if you have all the dominos lined up, if the first domino doesn't hit hard enough to knock over the next.
the game obviously sucked, how is this a shock. They should have rewritten the entire dragon age game to not cater to the disney community - horrible horrible writing
Games media failed to gaslight consumers into thinking Veilguard is a good game.
28:04 this is so real. Tim nailed it
Voting with your wallet works 🤷♂️
So firstly, its only 1.5 million players reached, not copies sold. So it could be even worse.
Definitely think Kinda Funny and a few other critics are a little off the money with Veilguard. Its writing and character work is absolutely appalling, and after finishing it, I actually didn't even think it would hit 1mil copies sold.
Seeing the Kinda Funny panel praise its writing felt like I was living in crazy land just because of how poor it can be at points.
6:10 The fighting game fan in me instinctively responded "No, they don't"
These ppl are living in the same echo chamber that thinks that political agenda driven games can sell. I remember Greg said “oh if you’re a bigot - this game is not for you” in his stream. I think many ppl just don’t like this being rubbed in their faces. As a result - they don’t buy the game.
The reality is cyberpunk and BG3 are equally diverse and inclusive - but they sell. Who doesn’t like Judy? Everyone does. BioWare’s DEI is just a box ticking exercise.
Bit of a Taika Waititi paraphrasing I like as we both share the same Cultural up bringing.
"I don't like tokenism and forced inclusion growing up i don't recall seeing one of every race together ever."
So yeah the tick box analogy holds up. And the worse part is they are written in the most racist bigoted narrowed view points of all time.
Black - strong intelligent usually female
Asian - strong intelligent usually female
SA - strong intelligent usually female
White - evil usually man definitely hetro closet gay.
Makes enjoying media pretty hard when I know the beginning middle end of a story because of what they look like.
Tim talks about movies like the majority of them don’t fail at the box office
I appreciate Barrett’s rebuking Mike’s idea that kids are gonna buy PC’s going forward. Mike must not pay attention to the reality of how hard it is to earn money for most people these days. The reason the Series S is two-thirds of Series console sales is affordability. The reason Switch Lite took off as soon as it came out is affordability. $700 for a PC as good as a PS5 (as Mike suggests) is *not* affordable for most families getting their kid a gaming device.
Exactly! My 10-year old daughter has been asking about getting a gaming PC. I may get her a Switch 1, when the 2 releases and the price hopefully drops. We have a PS5, and that's enough.
Anthem killed EA for me, not the game but the promise to support then dropped it. No trust left in EA.
@@christopherstuart5408 supporting that game basically meant practically coding the bones entirely. Systems and stats among other things only worked visually. Almost nothing worked under the hood. They weren’t willing to drop the amount of money necessary to make that game work. I don’t blame them. They never would have got enough people to come back to recoup the costs.
I mean, why would they continue to support a game that sucks and didn’t sell?
The kids definitely want PCs now. They’ll settle for the cheaper PS5, but they want and will work toward getting a PC. All of my nieces and nephews want PCs and desk setups.
Games as a service is definitely hurting majority of these titles’ sales. So many people spend most of their time playing Fortnite, Warzone, Apex, Destiny, Overwatch etc. and no longer have time to explore other games. Ad a result, sales for games go down. Couple this with subscription services and higher game prices and the lower sales makes sense
I think the name change had to effect FC! Not the only problem, but seeing this slump coincide with the name change has to be related at least in part.
They were dancing around it but you can’t undersell how damaging skill up and Mattyplays reviews were for DAV. They were amongst the first to review it and “hated” the game and did not pull any punches.
I literally just said this in another comment lmao but they didn’t even mention the woke scene that was shown off in every review and opinion piece. I got it on sale but I’m going in knowing it’s not going to have a mind blowing story and It’s also my first dragon age
I played Dragon Age and it was very forgetful. Not bad by any means but not great enough to justify its budget. Almost no word of mouth to go play it doesnt help
Skate 4 will bomb. I would've bought it for $70 on day 1. Being a live service game, I'll play it but won't spend a dime on it.
FC25 isn’t just under performing because it’s a lazy yearly update, it’s a fundamentally broken game in almost every conceivable way from the servers to the gameplay.
It’s literally one of the worst football games ever made.
I don’t think the online outrage over Dragon Age was nearly as impactful as people make it out to be. Sure, it may have resulted in fewer copies to be sold, but not enough for the game to miss its internal target by nearly 50%. That’s a sign that the game wasn’t what people were looking for
They wanted to sell 3 million copies. Instead, EA admitted, that there was 1,5 million „unique interactions” with the game. Some people played this game, after getting it through subscription and on sale. So the actual sales numbers are way lower, than 1,5 million.
If dragon age kept gender ideology out of their game it probably would’ve hit the mark. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s right or if it’s wrong, as we can see in the elections people are just fed up with it. and this is coming from someone that doesn’t care about gender politics. Keep sensitive topics of games and you probably won’t lose money on your game.
@@javik01 Lol no. The problem was that they treated the lore and writing like shit. When that should be the number one priority. The Identity of Dragon Age games is based on its rich lore and they ignored it and made it bland.
If you remove "gender ideology" noting about the game improves.
@@javik01nah, it didn't sell well because it was a shitty game. DA has always had progressive themes. This one was just bad.
I wonder what the sales data is outside the US because i would bet hard money that Ps5 is doing drastically worse than the Ps4 in Europe/Japan.
?? I feel like I only ever see positive headlines about PS in Europe
I stopped buying FIFA/FC games at release years ago and just buy later on at half price or less. I haven’t really enjoyed anything as much as “The Journey” which was from 8 years ago.
The issue is Dragon Age Veilguard was written like a young adult novel, zero gore or edge to it which is VEEEERY different to the rest of the series. Everyone I know that loves the other games fucking hated this game and those are not the awful "Anti-woke" crowd either.
The art style was objectively worse and the UI looked like a mobile game. I think it hit for Greg because of all the things it had but he isn't a core market fan. It felt like they wanted to make a different fantasy game but planted Dragon Age on the front of it.
This is a problem of games from the last 7-8 years. They’re written like kindergarten for adults. Media like KF will dance around this issue because they are friends with the people writing this slop, but the social justice, therapy speak is a huge turnoff for mainstream audiences.
I agree with Tim. I worry that Gamepass will have a long-term negative effect on the games industry.
I remember in the early days of Netflix when they would produce consistently quality shows to get people on their service, similar to how Xbox is doing right now. Now, Netflix pumps out disposable content to just refresh their library.
The one thing that gives me hope is that Microsoft are still selling games, which means it does offer them another revenue stream.
Free to play games are the ones doing "more damage" to the games industry when you take a look of the top 20 or 10 games actively played. Lots of games that were released years ago still hanging on.
@@xFlee More than one thing can be true. Both are doing more harm for the industry relative to anything else, and achieving far less good.
But you still have to pay to even access Game Pass. Xbox pays them to be in the service and gets engagement bonuses. It’s silly to say it ruins the industry. If you don’t want to use Game Pass, the option to buy the game outright is still there.
With prices going up people are less likely to take a chance on games and raising those prices is only going to exacerbate the problem. The reason why Indie titles are selling millions of copies compared to some bigger AAA titles comes down to pricing. No constantly rising in price subscription service is going to fix that.
Really wish AMD showed off their new gpus because this 50 Series isn't anything exciting this is basically a Plus ver. of the 40 series.
Shame, I actually enjoyed Veilguard. Hope this doesn’t hurt the next Mass Effect.
Veilguard was the only game in the series I didn’t snap up day one, I waited and boy am I happy I did. I haven’t heard much good at all about it.
Great show! Love you lot!
Also i think FC is just going through growing pains of the name change, holiday sales would have hurt them from the non gamer crowd who no doubt looked for FIFA not FC.
Apex player count has gone down drastically
Yea I didn't like the writing and story in Veilguard (I did buy it though). I think the nerdier the game, the more "word of mouth" and "my friend said it wasn't good" matters. Fantasy fans are picky compared to most fan bases.
Dragon Age The V…. The upbeat happy go lucky, let’s all be happy friends vibes. HUGE TURN OFF! Need that dark, gritty, unpredictable vibes back!
The only Dragon Age I actually enjoyed was DA2. Inquisition was a big miss for a lot of people, and it was a long time ago. Dragon Age has also never been on the Mass Effect or Elder Scrolls level of success. But also budgets are definitely out of whack, this endless quest for growth eventually has a cliff. I think many devs and publishers would be happy with 1.5 million players in 2 months, and I hope the games industry can get to a place where that isnt looked at as a failure.
I think the style hurt Dragon Age. Mass Effect 5 needs to keep the same style with better animations and graphics.
It's weird to hear xbox get props because they dont care about console sales when they did, in fact, care about console sales when the generation started but were forced to pivot because of their failure.
Tim, Roblox etc changed everything. Every kid in my family all want a PC above anything else.
Didn't Steam have more people play on it than PlayStation just recently? PC is already bigger than console.
Bioware lost all the people that made their games great. Dying a slow death.
dragon age underperforming is sad, I put 100-ish hours into it and I liked it enough but I didn't finish it, the common criticism of the dialogue I kinda get, my main complaint is the world building in the game, there was no like "realistic world building" the pirate faction that didn't steal cultural relics, it felt way too modern
hopefully if we ever get a follow up or another dragon age game they go back to the more "darker" fantasy with political drama and more complex themes, like religion and how corrupt and stuff it can be was a major part in the first 3 and its just missing in DAV
Make new maps for Battlefield 2042
I think DAV was great!
The word of mouth is the same as ever. If a game is good then it will sell well. If a game sucks, then it will likely flop. If social media trashing a game alone despite how good a game is held true then games like Hogwarts Legacy would have crashed hard. Yes, Hogwarts could have gotten more sales but the overall market doesn’t care what some person said on social media. There are so many good games out there to play, back logs getting bigger and bigger. We are getting smarter with what we invest our time and money in. We have so much media, demos, and other ways to learn if a game is worth our time. When we see games like Star Wars Outlaws in action, I don’t care if someone said they loved it. I can see with my own eyes that this game is not for me. If you are using social media to inform your decision, it’s usually backed by highlighting the strengths and weaknesses of a game. Reputable reviewers that aligns with your tastes. I’m a little surprised that Mike thought it was good to great. I think that just because you like something that it doesn’t meant it’s great. I liked Dynasty Warriors 2 on the PS2 but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s not for everyone. I can see the flaws of the game myself but still liked my time with it. How is that not the discussion instead of sending mixed signals of “game is great”. It’s not.
Explain Dead Space Remake then. An amazing game that only sold 2M which is a flop in my book based on how good the game is.
Thats good number for thriller/horror game and also for remake of old game. @Toval-PH
It is not and has never been true that there is a correlation between games being good and games selling well. Amazing games don't sell well all the time.
Your logic is fallacious.
Tim. Mike is right the kids want Gaming PCs. Both my boys want one and consoles.
Outside of when you guys mention it I never hear or see anything about apex . Is it doing well like you always claim ?
I don't care how much you tell me people love Dragon Age, this franchise is not what people want right now. The masses are not asking for a new Dragon Age right now. And all the dragon age fans who see this can tell me how bad they wanted it, the majority DO NOT and the numbers show. It is not related to gameplay or writing no matter what fans will say.
Dragon Age The Veilguard just wasn’t a good Dragon Age game. Dragon Age players knew that coming in and some stayed away because of it. Then trying to bring in new players when some of the bashing gets out (like Tim said, word of mouth can hurt as much as help). It just got it from both ends. They could’ve made a that game as an entirely different IP and no one would’ve questioned it.
Sucks dav didn't sell more thought it was amazing.
I would love to hear their opinion on game pass if they weren’t getting codes sent to them…
Comment section is having a normal one today lol. Another great episode, love y'all
These comments always come across as vented frustration that you’re not aligned with the consensus.
I stand by the reason a lot of games aren't making the sales is because of price increases on triple A. These days I spend less on video games than i ever have because all the biggest ones are asking more than i want to pay, and rather than pick one, i end up doing the easy thing and picking none.
10 years ago i was paying £40 for brand new AAA games. £50 at most. Now they're consistently asking up to £60-70. £70 is $87. £60 is still $74.
It's just not affordable to jump into any random triple A title anymore. They've made it so i wait, and only buy the best ones. I have no doubt i'd enjoy dragon age, but i'm still waiting for a price drop on stellar blade, spiderman 2, astrobot. The way i see it, they're doing this to themselves.
guys stop acting so stupid i love you guys but just stop. it didnt sell because of the woke shit. people arent buying it it doesnt matter how you feel about the issue people buying it dont want it in there games its that simple. i also bought it but the customers are always right they are telling you what they do and dont want in the games. just dont put it in a fantasy game people dont want it in there its so simple it doesnt matter how u feel about it the people dont want it
Kinda funny lost credibility big time shilling for Dragon age andwhen their employee went after the ''Chuds''.
Fifa/fc25. Is it cause fifa isn't in the name? Tim, perfect question.... Mike shockingly bad response. Yearly and proven that parents/grandparents buy the new fifa as a xmas present. Oh, no fifa... another random crap present is bought instead.
Once take two releases their fifa 26 title. Top of the tree due parents/grandparents going...oh the new fifa, they want that.
Fc24 had no decrease in sales, fc25 is just broken and people aren’t happy about it
Not every video needs to cost 200 million no game needs to cost that much you're bloating out games adding needless cost the industry just needs a reset for games like here's 80 million make a game you'll have better quality and more innovation more money spent doesn't mean better game it's the complete opposite
The FC comments are cringe. The Olympics has no impact on FIFA, and the World Cup is every four years. If you don’t know the topic just cover something different!
TITANFALL 3 is the obvious answer for EA
Veilguard was woke bullshit game
You need a guy on who plays sports games religiously
Eafc is failing for a lot of reasons UT in EAFC has peaked yes, but they keep screwing up Pro-clubs and career mode
Another is general gameplay where they were still doing patches in eafc24 a month before Eafc 25 came out
They just build code on top of code each yr instead of taking a yr off gutting the whole thing
In some years they bring stuff they had in game years ago and bring it back as a “New Feature”
Madden and NHL have the same problems
Other then NCAA which they just brought back, the rest of there bread and butter aka sports gms will be flat at best
this dragon age news shouldn't surprise anyone, people are saving their dollars for must plays. the golden age of games is done, companies have gotta make bangers for people to invest in their product. choosing between a mediocre game and a fancy meal, cost of living wont let me choose both
Apex is NOT still killing it.
Far too late for BioWare to turn around and go “hey guys we’re back!!!” Culture moved on. EA ruined y’all at your peak. Time to close.
Bioware and EA need to get their act together and change course from the inside and it's not a surprise it failed
yeah 'many factors' why veliguard fail expectations. Sure! how about their approach of these character being 'politically correct' and 'inclusive'? BioWare really develop a game for certain audiences not all audiences. Clearly.
Free Dragon Age trial on XSX so trying tonight. Given what I've seen and read, maybe it's people becoming wise to terrible soft writing..?
Dragon age was whack.. it was not a dragon age, glad they failed, hope they r shuttered
Why are so many people buying ps5 when there’s not even a lot of games rn
I feel like most conversations around Veilguard was how it sucked, and a lot of that was from core fans. I know I beat it twice and I would give it a 6/10. I'm not surprised it didn't sell well
Lot of negativity in the comments… gaming community kinda sucks
Nice positive comment
These guys r either blind or they r trying so hard to not include the big reason why it didn't sell is how woke the game it is
Believe it or not but the “woke” and “anti woke” crowd in video games ain’t that big. Game just looks bland and did not have the soul of previous dragon age games that’s why it got a meh reaction with the majority
@jcdeleon4394 the game was trash because of the woke writing it's all written in a way for ppl who r weak to being offended over everything
@@draculathevampire934 You're sounding so offended right now Mr Tepes