Thank you sir. I thought I had commented already but will say this is probably one of those knots I haven’t given enough credit to. And I probably have only tied it incorrectly as it’s been a bit difficult to untie after load, the few times that I have actually used it. I’ve appreciated your videos and look forward to seeing more
Thx Jeff. I also tied this one wrong in my early days. Of course we want strength, but I can't think of any application where I want a knot I can't untie!
Ha... now here's a funny fact... i don't actually tie the figure 8 very often any more and when i did, it sometimes took me twice to remember the geometry... and so next time I need to tie one... well, i suppose I can watch my own video! Cheers!
Food for thought. It is more difficult to remember an educational concept that has had an incorrect example presentation before the correct one. The natural tendency is to remember the first example .
Appreciate that info. It was deliberate though. Because there is also a tendency of TH-cam viewers not to watch the entire video. If I show the sloppy method 2nd, after I tie it correctly, some of the audience will no longer be watching and miss important information. Cheers and thanks
Excellent tutorial! Thanks so much! All these expensive high Tech 8mm tethers now come with a stopper knot… my question is why not a figure 8 tail to reattatch to to your Biner as a safety?? What do you think? Thanks again!
I don't see why a figure 8 wouldn't be an effective stopper knot but it will significantly shorten your tether. Personally, I do not advise the use of a conventional tether simply because it is too short to get us to safety in the event of an emergency. Watch this video and consider getting yourself a rope which will always get you to safety. And if ya buy anything, don't forget ya get a 10% discount using JRB10 coupon at RockNArbor. th-cam.com/video/1P2DytGuXXU/w-d-xo.html
Ha! Well i haven't forgotten how to tie any of these but I do regularly look at this page to get my lengths correct! My list is your list. Cheers! jrbtreeclimbing.com/content/length-specs/
Initially I thought 10' is a bit slow for the 8 but actually you're nicely insisting on how to avoid overlaps. I'll use your method @5'50" to improve how I teach it to rock climbers. Just a thought about adding a stopper knot after tying it into a climbing harness. For a long time I've been thinking this was unnecessary if the knot was tight and the free end was long enough because this knot will not slip. That's until I figured a theory about why I've seen so many climbers, no matter how experienced they were, forget to finish re-threading it. This always happened while chatting instead of focusing on the knot AND wearing a loose top that goes down over the knot and hides it from sight. I saw the light when I realised I had never seen anybody forget to finish the other most common knot used here : the bowline and a stopper knot. The first part of my theory is that the stopper knot not only prevents the bowline from slipping, it also adds a second knot to it. You may feel you finished tying up the first but not the second. The second part is why. Why won't you feel you did finish the stopper knot as well : because you did not even start to tie it. Why would you think you finsihed the figure of 8 : not only because it's hidden but also because in your mind, you actually finished it once. What you forgot while chatting is to re-thread/finish it twice. Note this happens obviously with climbers who don't double check when they trust each other, a quite common thing in the french alpine culture... trust me I am french. As for me I actually re-thread the bowline without a stopper because I had been using it for years before climbing, it's easier to untie, re-threading it makes it stronger, is a stopper knot and wears out the harness less.
Interesting perspective. I have never thought about the backup being protection from making a mistake in the tying of the knot itself. On a related note, although I am not a rock climber, I often wear a rock climbing harness doing tree climbing experiments and if I tie into my belay loop with a rope, I now use a round turn + either of a Maverick Hitch or a Running Highwaymans Hitch. Sometimes a JRB HITCH. In all cases, i use a soft lock, passing the tail through the loop, then collapsing the loop so it's small and cinched. A stopper could be added. But this allows the knot to be tied and untied in 5 seconds max.
The stopper knot was made mandatory in climbing competitions worldwide after a knot was not finished by a top level competitor and an accident nearly happened (he was already too high so they let him go on and spotted him with mats, there must have been quite a blank in the cheering…). It's also mandatory in climbing clubs but I am not sure what they are doing to make people understand why. To be honest while I fully support any effort to improve security, I am put off by (too) many unnecessary rules. Finally it's interesting indeed to look at things from a different perspective : I have always i interested in looking at the way "rope" workers (tree climbers, window cleaners, etc…) and cavers handle security.
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Still one of the best explanations of the Figure 8 on TH-cam. Well done.
Thanks! I try to do my best to deliver as complete a presentation as possible. You might enjoy my Blakes Hitch Master Class video!
Thank you sir. I thought I had commented already but will say this is probably one of those knots I haven’t given enough credit to. And I probably have only tied it incorrectly as it’s been a bit difficult to untie after load, the few times that I have actually used it. I’ve appreciated your videos and look forward to seeing more
Thx Jeff. I also tied this one wrong in my early days. Of course we want strength, but I can't think of any application where I want a knot I can't untie!
Wow I tied 5 in a row without instructions.....best instructional on the net
Ha... now here's a funny fact... i don't actually tie the figure 8 very often any more and when i did, it sometimes took me twice to remember the geometry... and so next time I need to tie one... well, i suppose I can watch my own video! Cheers!
very helpful explanation
Food for thought. It is more difficult to remember an educational concept that has had an incorrect example presentation before the correct one.
The natural tendency is to remember the first example .
Appreciate that info. It was deliberate though. Because there is also a tendency of TH-cam viewers not to watch the entire video. If I show the sloppy method 2nd, after I tie it correctly, some of the audience will no longer be watching and miss important information. Cheers and thanks
Excellent tutorial! Thanks so much! All these expensive high Tech 8mm tethers now come with a stopper knot… my question is why not a figure 8 tail to reattatch to to your Biner as a safety?? What do you think? Thanks again!
I don't see why a figure 8 wouldn't be an effective stopper knot but it will significantly shorten your tether. Personally, I do not advise the use of a conventional tether simply because it is too short to get us to safety in the event of an emergency. Watch this video and consider getting yourself a rope which will always get you to safety. And if ya buy anything, don't forget ya get a 10% discount using JRB10 coupon at RockNArbor.
th-cam.com/video/1P2DytGuXXU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks!
Back again, forgot how to tie it.
Ha! Well i haven't forgotten how to tie any of these but I do regularly look at this page to get my lengths correct! My list is your list. Cheers!
jrbtreeclimbing.com/content/length-specs/
@@jrbtc thanks for sharing I have bookmarked the page
Initially I thought 10' is a bit slow for the 8 but actually you're nicely insisting on how to avoid overlaps. I'll use your method @5'50" to improve how I teach it to rock climbers.
Just a thought about adding a stopper knot after tying it into a climbing harness. For a long time I've been thinking this was unnecessary if the knot was tight and the free end was long enough because this knot will not slip. That's until I figured a theory about why I've seen so many climbers, no matter how experienced they were, forget to finish re-threading it. This always happened while chatting instead of focusing on the knot AND wearing a loose top that goes down over the knot and hides it from sight.
I saw the light when I realised I had never seen anybody forget to finish the other most common knot used here : the bowline and a stopper knot. The first part of my theory is that the stopper knot not only prevents the bowline from slipping, it also adds a second knot to it. You may feel you finished tying up the first but not the second. The second part is why. Why won't you feel you did finish the stopper knot as well : because you did not even start to tie it. Why would you think you finsihed the figure of 8 : not only because it's hidden but also because in your mind, you actually finished it once. What you forgot while chatting is to re-thread/finish it twice.
Note this happens obviously with climbers who don't double check when they trust each other, a quite common thing in the french alpine culture... trust me I am french.
As for me I actually re-thread the bowline without a stopper because I had been using it for years before climbing, it's easier to untie, re-threading it makes it stronger, is a stopper knot and wears out the harness less.
Oops ...the re-threaded bowline IS the stopper knot...
Interesting perspective. I have never thought about the backup being protection from making a mistake in the tying of the knot itself. On a related note, although I am not a rock climber, I often wear a rock climbing harness doing tree climbing experiments and if I tie into my belay loop with a rope, I now use a round turn + either of a Maverick Hitch or a Running Highwaymans Hitch. Sometimes a JRB HITCH. In all cases, i use a soft lock, passing the tail through the loop, then collapsing the loop so it's small and cinched. A stopper could be added. But this allows the knot to be tied and untied in 5 seconds max.
The stopper knot was made mandatory in climbing competitions worldwide after a knot was not finished by a top level competitor and an accident nearly happened (he was already too high so they let him go on and spotted him with mats, there must have been quite a blank in the cheering…).
It's also mandatory in climbing clubs but I am not sure what they are doing to make people understand why. To be honest while I fully support any effort to improve security, I am put off by (too) many unnecessary rules.
Finally it's interesting indeed to look at things from a different perspective : I have always i interested in looking at the way "rope" workers (tree climbers, window cleaners, etc…) and cavers handle security.