MASH TURNING TO VINEGAR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- barleyandhopsbrewing.com
We explore the phenomenon of mash turning to vinegar and how difficult that really is. This is an old tale told by many people who believe that their mash has turned to vinegar. There will be some people that will disagree with me and I am fine with that but you can't outsmart science.
Thank you for taking the time to make these videos! Don't worry about them being short videos effect I personally prefer longer technical videos for the "technical tinkerers"
Darryl from California!
Damn it sir, I just threw away 5 gallons of pineapple mashed because it went sour after only 3 days of full on crazy action it went quite for the rest of 2 weeks, by the way I’ve been watching all your videos and you have been very inspirational to my new hobby
I was on the verge of throwing it away too...thanks to this video.👍
loves your videos, very educational, thanks
I made a 26 gallon sweet feed mash, the first run of it was excellent, but now every run after my proof is dropping rapidly, like the 3rd run out of the barrel is only at 130 with a reflux..
Is that normal..??
Nice microscopy! Lactobacillus are also a rod shaped bacteria, and convert sugar to lactic acid. It's found on malted barley and is more or less anaerobic, so if you keep oxygen out of the mash (cover the surface with plastic wrap, and/or CO2 purge), you'll still get a sour mash, but it will be a lactic acid sourness instead of an acetic acid sourness. Interestingly, the studies I have read so far on microbial populations on malted grain don't find much Acetobacter (www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Grain#Malted_Barley). I don't know much about mashes for stilling (I am a sour beer brewer), but you are probably right about people tasting their mash and tasting lactic acid instead of acetic acid and not realizing what exactly they are tasting.
+Dan ABA Awesome advice Dan. Thanks for your expertise on this. It is always good to hear from those who are in the know as you are. Distillers (newer ones) are constantly bombarded with misinformation and this is one of those areas. Thanks again.
George
Thank you so much for your insight on the subject I appreciate everything you do your buddy Sam Davis.
I am pretty sure my mash has started to turn to vinegar, the airlock dried out as I left it for a while too long. I wanted to know if the distillation process would separate the acetic acid and the ethanol/alcohol. This video didn't tell me that however, Wikipedia reckons acetic acid's boiling point is 118 degrees C. So I will give it a go, if anyone else is here looking for the same info asked me how it went and I will reply in an untimely manner (that's how we got here in the first place so roll with it). Very good video nonetheless, thank you.
really came here for the same question, how it went?
@@davidesaviane2249 It worked
I had 5 gallons of pineapple apple cider turn absolutely rancid. I left it in a storage unit for over a year. When I went to dump it down the drain, I tasted it again. Ended up drinking most of it.
I had a mash that I racked into anther fermenter about a year ago and it has been sitting in my beer keezer and it is perfectly fine. It tastes a little sour but the alcohol will knock you over!
Amazing. Living proof that mash doesn't turn to vinegar.
George
Ok..... pulled my grain mash bucket (fermented (sealed I thought) for 4 weeks) out to distill and was hit with a strong odor (vinegar?).... when I check the gravity it is 1.00. What to do? run it? says no alcohol in the mash?
WAY back in the day when folks fermented their mash in barrels they used oats or rye to form a cap over the mash that served as an airlock. When the CO2 production stopped the cap sank, and you knew it was time to distill. You had to run it THAT day, so I was told, since it's no longer "airlocked" or you had a barrel of fine corn vinegar. They believed it turned in a day. That cheap little airlock is a godsend!
Very good explanation. This is how the virus fro vinegar got in. It was open and not protected. Appreciate the comment and it is the best description I've seen to date.
Too many folks believe that it turns to vinegar on its own.
George
Thanks. I've also heard that's how they introduced yeast to the mash; they just left it open until it started working, then stirred in rye or oats for the cap. Makes me grateful for yeast cultivation.
Thank you
Great video. Take this with a grain of salt, but I believe that bacteria is prevalent on the feet of fruit flies. They are attracted to the fermenting fruit. The mother looks like snot. I have found Mother’s in interesting places. Beer cans on the side of the road, also hummingbird feeders left unattended . Yeast gets in the hummingbird feeder, turns the liquid to alcohol, then the
Acetobacters get in the hummingbird feeder and vinegar is produced.
You know George, as' said before, I've been doing this for over fifty years now and never heard of it or if I did forgotten it . Let's try this. Forever we have gotten bird pecked and older tomatoes to clean our stills and mash barrels, even adding a little water to make a cleaning run if the still has been sitting a week or so and I've never had a problem nor any one else I know, those of us left anyway and I never change my procedure. Now I notice that every one uses vinegar for cleaning, I don't know why but, if they don't get every bit of that still and mash barrel spotless of vinegar residue and leave even a trace then they may have screwed themselves. where I don't have to worry about it because yeast loves tomatoes. I'll keep doing it the old way Sam in Va.
Great comment Sam. I agree 100%. It's all about what people say and how methods get passed along. I've even heard people say that their mash just finished and now they have only 2 days before it turns to vinegar. Vinegar can be a good cleaning agent but I prefer warm soapy water and if I have a little copper to clean I use CLR from Walmart.
George
Ha! I've had worked off mashes sit sealed off for more than two weeks waiting its turn ahead of other recipes and guess what, never turned into anything but mash.
Yep. My point exactly.
George
If your George again what where you called last time
I have a sweet feed mash with peaches and the top bubbles and smells like vinegar and burn your nose like alcohol is that normal
Wow George does it again another very informative video thanks George you da man.
Thanks. You are too kind.
Just trying to share as much as I can
George
I’m unable to get home and my mash is ready to go how long will it last ? Days weeks?
another informative show. keep it up :)
Hey George when distilling is the boiler temp supposed to be the same as the head temp all the way through the process..thanks keep up all the awesome videos.
There will always be a difference in kettle temp and head temp. This is why a thermometer in the kettle does nothing to help the process but the one in the head is critical. There is a difference in temp in the kettle and head because of the affect the column has on the temp. The kettle may be lower than the head because heat rises but there will be times when the kettle is higher than the head.
Hops this helps
George
i think my mash smells like acetone ?
When we distill the resulting vinegair from the mash the 70% alcohol distilled does kill these bacteria?
the starch is a little oily.is this possible the oil of starch terminate the act of fermentation?
After distilling, can you use the used mash and vinager it?
Video request
How does star San work, and how does it kill bacteria without killing yeast?
+Daryl Bickford Star-san is a contact sanitizer and is a no rinse. It dissipates quickly when exposed to oxygen. That's why it doesn't kill yeast in buckets and carboys.
Thanks for the question. I should have covered that a little better in the video.
George
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC
Thank you greatly
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC Starsan also kills yeast on contact.
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC I think you mean that it doesn't kill yeast once the Starsan has been diluted with wort or beer. That is correct because of the dilution, but it also won't kill bacteria at that point.
+Dan ABA Absolutely. It will also dissipate quickly if air dried. The addition of mash, wort or lees will dilute any left over to a point where it will not kill the yeast. good addition>
George
Happy distilling!
Hey George. What's your take on a cracked corn + sugar mash that smells like apple juice after 5 days of fermenting. I'm shooting for full ferment time if 2 wks. But I periodically give a smell through the airlock. Doesn't smell bad at all, but the best way to describe is apple juice smell. Any insight?
I think my mash was not clean up and in distillation I had problem.
is it right?
I've happened across this video because I think that my finished distilled alcohol smells a bit strange. If the mash was stuck for a while but ended up with the correct alcohol reading before distilling, then got 3lt that is a bit smelly, is it OK? Or not
Hi there I've been
Thinking about brewing and goin about all the legal process es of selling my hooch legally .I have seventeen years exp making home brews not so much distlling .well yesterday I mixed recipes tomato paste w potato n rice (raw) . usually after adding yeast it runs like hell for 20-30 hours till the abv reaches around 14%,this time it didn't do anything. I thought maybe my water was too hot maybe too much chlorine maybe yeast was dead? Anyway I tasted acetic acid should I start over? This has happened before to me but it took a week .it's not that it smells too sour it tastes acidic.i added yeast after 48 hrs and now is cookingie fermenting but if those aceto bacter are thriving won't they just eat the alcohol that gets made?
I’m doing an apple mash
thanks mate very intresting stuff..
what is the best way to make vinegar if we want to make it i would like to make some for cooking and salads
I’m currently trying now. Have you found any good vids? I’ve found broken videos that don’t cover the whole process. Still trying to get the whole process down lol.
Hey George, have you ever done sour mash? reusing the used mash, would love to see your spin on it..
Actually yes. I plan to do a video this spring on that.
I am not a real fan of sour mashes but it is neat.
George
I just did it and it turned it vinegar 🤷🏻♂️ that’s why I’m watching this.
Ok how long should it take to run a 5 gallon batch off.thanks
All things being equal and no problems encountered, with a 2 inch column it should take about 5 1/2 hours including start-up time of about an hour. If you run a three inch column you can easily knock off about 1 1/2 hours. This is considering you are using a column and not a pressure cooker (this may take longer).
Hope this helps
George
How do you sanitize or sterilize ur equipment and what with?
Potassium bisulphate lol. Did you watch the video or just come to ask and leave?
You can also put them in a temp of 120c/248f - 140c/284f. Oven or liquid, what ever is it is a siesta for you.
Im having an issue with mash all the sudden. My last batch of cornmeal mash turned a really foul smell when I went to check on it after 7 days. Threw it out and started over again, this time immediately after mixing and adding yeast I began to smell the same odor, also it started bubbling so much it came through the airlock within like 10 minutes. Any idea what it could be? Bad yeast maybe?
What you describe is normally the result of hot fermentation (high temperatures). When the temperature gets too high and a healthy yeast colony is still working they tend to put off a really strong stench (odor) and this is a result of the reaction of the yeast in a warmer environment. If the temp gets too high the yeast will die off or go dormant. This is why fermenting temperatures are set at around 75 degrees F and always under 90.
Now on to the second part of your experience; sounds like you have a very good viable yeast colony. That's why it may seem to erupt (in most cases this is a good thing). Again the temp may too high so that smell is still there.
Most fermentation does have a slight odor and sometimes it is even a little sweet. If it is a real strong stench I would first look at temperature. Your yeast is obviously good since it is developing quick and fermenting.
In the end, even with a strong odor the distillation process normally removes that odor but you need to run it to make sure. No guarantee it will but most of the time is does.
George
Thank you very much for the reply, that makes sense. You nailed it.
Again I wanted to thank you for the lengthy reply and the information you shared. It was the temperature. I live in a really hot part of the world and keeping my mash at around 75 degrees has been challenging, still working on the best way to keep it cool. In addition to the foul smell it also looked a lot different than it normally does. Normally my cornmeal mash when it's done looks a lot clearer, when looking at the bad odor mash it looks much more murky as if the cornmeal has not settled to the bottom as much. Still working on it though, my last batch went south again, the one before that turned out perfect. I guess I had let this last batch get a little too hot again. I I wonder how those guys did out in the woods back home? I'm originally from NC and in the summer time it gets hot as hell. Seems like it would have been a real challenge keeping their mash that cool out in the elements.
Is not it called Sour Mash for a reason. I'm pretty sure the more u reuse your corn or corn meal over and over the more it start smelling sour, hence the name Sour Mash.
Yes, if you allow the mash to sit alone for a while it will start to sour. Hence the name sour mash.
It's not sour because it is vinegar it is sour because it is rotting and bacteria are invading the mash.
Will it taste like vinegar George ? I’m using sour mash 10% and 51 percent corn malted barley and rye malt. It fermented. Everything was great. I have to be honest bc it’s cold here I didn’t use air lock bc I needed to get the heater inside. Anyways it did great every day but the last day the taste went from amazing to just like vinegar. I’m running it now. I’ll let you know
I think you were trying to say Acinetobacter.
Yep. That one always gets me tongue tied.
Ummm what!? Not sure you know what Acinetobacter are... he was definitely talking about the right thing lol. Acetobacter is needed for lacto-fermentation. I understand there are a few similar names, but rather different results lol. Not sure you wanna purposely consume Acinetobacter 😉
For the future, if you start your “correction” and I use that term loosely. If you start with “I think” you may wanna look into your uncertainty 🤷♂️
what up class
Ive only had one of my brews turn to vinigar dont know how it happend but it was a pretty small batch and it taisted realy sour and it wasnt fermenting for a vary long time it definitely wasnt fully vinigure probably in the biging stages but it taisted way to sour to be considered just a fresh non degased homebrew
Alcohol aside, this bloke knows how to educate.
Do you need grains in mash to make shine or can it be done with corn and fruit?
Does baking soda added after fermentation get rid of yeast flavor?
My mash is corn juice,( strawberry pineapple peaches mango puree brown sugar white sugar and bread yeast
Great Video as always. Very informative. I liked the microscope usage.
Is my Mash done if it smells like vomit cuz I've never had that smell coming out of any mash I have made please help asap
if wine turns into a vinerger taste , what happens to the aclchol, is it save to drink as a grape vineger
Hey George! Great video. I was wondering what I should be looking for if I were to run a mash turned vinegar?
rack it a few times a day and get some copper I there
I tried to make mango wine but after seven days it tastes like leman juice , I think it is vinegar...why it's happened ? Please help me to know..
Hey George love the videos I'm new to this and I have a brand new 10 gallon copper still and I was wondering when doing a vinegar/water cleaning run how much do I need to put in the boiler and do I need to out any in the 1 gallon thumper?
Run a few gallons through it as a complete system. You don't need to run it dry. Just get it up to temp and let it run for 10-20 minutes. After that, disassemble and wash it out.
George
hi Mr hopei ferment several times with corn and starch. i had bubbles almost 300lit.for 1.5 kilo starch. in4days and 28 degree centigrad.With air look. and white color. and sharp smell. in stilling I had a little alcohol. very low. what's the problem. Is this possible I product vinegar and no alcohol?when mash with air lock have bubbles, product alcohol?
Farhad Tafreshi whoe you need to study your shirt before you go blind
If using the potassium metabisulfite you mentioned in the video. Is that used as a disinfectant while cleaning, or used in the mash?
Hehe potassium bisulphate. Used to disinfect prior to doing any of the process.
I had 6 batches that I thought they turned into vinegar. But I proceeded to distill all of them anyway.
Great. I would imagine that the results were flavorful.
George
Barley and Hops Brewing LLC not really LOL, they are all sugar mash.
Thanks for another informative video! Where do we look when interested in purchasing one of your stills? Thanks again!
+Gerald West you can look at the brewhaus website to see everything available. Just go Brewhaus.com
You can order direct from there or through us (same price)
Just call George at 254-681-1760
George
Well I have my 1st mash finished (simple mix of corn meal, sugar and raisins) and it sure smells strong of white wine??? I'm worried it ain't moonshine or that it is wine or a bad batch... What does a finished mash smell like?
That is the way it should smell
That's good to know.
Hi George I’m clayton from upstate NewYork and I would like to pick Your brain do you have a recipe for making Canadian Club whiskey and could you please make a video so I and everyone else can see exactly how you do it I love your video’s I have watched everyone at least 3 times!
Clayton, thanks. I'll add that to the list of videos I have developed. I'll try to get to it in short order. Thanks again and happy distilling.
George
1. I know Yukon Jack is from Canadian but is it a Canadian Club whiskey? 2. what's the difference between US and Canadian whiskey?