They say when a horses head is pulled this far back all back all he can see is his feet which really freaks a horse out but since the bit is so painful he does it to get away from the pain. It also obstructs airway leading to other problems long term and causes spinal problems at the over flexed area of the neck.
This is just as bad as what is done to Tennessee walking horses. The stacks, chains and soaring. The people who do these atrocities also say it's for the horses own benefit. How sad.
I cannot for the life of me see how anyone who professes to love horses can do this to them. BLIND FREDDY can see this is painful. My non horsey friends can see it, my children can see it. What is the matter with you people. OPEN YOUR EYES CAUSE YOU HEART IS OBVIOUSLY SHUT DOWN !!!!!!
Only real and true riders know what this does to horses and good riders will never use it.. You can see the torture in their eyes... Why don't you try dressage without rollkur and without spurs! If horses could cry they would of.. l wish animals could talk and say, ''STOP HURTING ME'' We are their voice.. they need us
Thisismyfirstname Thisismylastname Yeah but some people, especially a lot of spoiled ones.. some can´t ride.. and just hurt the horses with their spurs.. and use rollkur on their horses.. rollkur is legal, ofcourse every rider starts at the beginning
***** l agree but spurs can hurt bad.. especially when you use them wrong l see young spoiled kids on a horse with spurs trying to ride and than they get bucked off.. because there's people who don't know how to use them. however l'm a horse rider for long time very long and l don't need them l know people who use them good that's fine But l see people kicking the horse hard with spurs and that makes me pissed because it can go straight to the horses body Example: www.google.nl/search?q=horse+spur+damage&biw=1366&bih=623&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIgtGk-MiSyQIVBJAPCh3K2wFV#imgrc=rRBIZqbnixnJiM%3A This gives me chills.. and these people are not supposed to use them (warning it's kinda graphic.. Bloody) it's very sad.. There's also many horses where you absolutely can't use them on, some people who use spurs on a horse that if you move forward with barely doing anything they kick you off.. they react to every movement some don't need it
+Marit you are right. real and truely good riders can rider horses without cruelty. gadgets and gimmicks are used to make up for lack of skill and empaty to preserve the ego of some 'riders'. build trust with a horse by respect and kindness and you will reap the rewards . as for some of the replies below, esp the foul mouthed one who says we dont know who strong horses are...yes i do know how strong horses are - i've witnessed it many times. and the best way to control a horses is through build his trust in you with kind gentle methods. every time.
+Marit your're right. good riders dont need to use spurs and nor would they. i never used spurs and i never will. a horse can feel a fly land on them some humans think they cannot feel leg pressure? the use of spurs can cause a horse to become 'leg dead' ie fails to respond to leg pressure. i know i've ridden a number of horses like this and i can usually tell they have had spurs used on them in the past. the horses become so used to the pain they switch off and ignore the pain as it was so prevalent in their past history. if someone ruins a horses mouth or sides this way it's very difficult to reverse this, but a good rider can still get the best out of a horse with kind methods.
anyone who knows anything about horses knows and understands this is not natural or normal for the horses. I highly doubt the 1st dressage horses, like fighting ones had this type of posture. This needs to be stopped.
if a horse's nose is being forced to it's chest, it's WRONG. Specifically in dressage. My friends have shown me what correct warm up/flexion is, and I've also done it and not one of my horses or friend's horses look like this. This is incorrect. The art of dressage is to ride a horse's hind end up into hand--this is the exact opposite.
rollkur and LDR doesnt just happen in dressage- it happens in jumping, racing, spanish riding schools, western, reining, and many other equestrian sports.
all horses are beautiful and should not be treated this way. To be honest, as long as my horse is happy, I couldn't care less what he looks like! And it looks much more nicer when they have their heads, not when they look uncomfortable like this. Poor horses :(
The weird thing is that the shapes and outlines are the same as the 17th and 18th century illustrations, the ones with the long curbs and titles about horsemastership. I thought we'd moved on....
Things must change in the horse sport world they're lives are important they give their all and should be kept training transported and ridden with respect and decency
I told my father that he and his girl friend were riding with rollkur and they said they didnt, well, when I saw this vid I knew they really did, I showed them and they believed me :)
YES and bring it on! I just saw the 'blue-tongue' video (plus almost every one of those trainers doing it) and if we're watching a Kur and the horses are frothing uncontrollably all over their necks, these trainers were warming up using Rollkur. Trainers 'train' and riders 'ride' and the polished result is not palatable. Juan Manuel and Fegero 12 from Spain do believe a trainer and a competition rider can be one . . . .and without any Rollkur.
the froth is from the reins on the necks, and the stuff from their mouths either means they are relaxed or they are using a copper bit and both are natural for the horse
I love how all the Dressage riders are saying "Not all dressage riders do this". I guess now you know how rodeo people feel having to constantly tell people that not all rodeos shock their animals.
If they are so adamant that this is not harmful perhaps they would allow the horse to be autopsied when it comes to the end of its useful life? Or x-rayed or MRI imaging to preserve its life while getting a window into the condition of various tissues. I’m sure fundraising to cover the cost of the procedures would not be an issue from either side of the argument. Even the equine insurance companies may have a vested interest in the outcome.
I love how they say you cant judge based on a snapshot. I happen to know someone who took pictures at this exact same event and got OVER 300 PICTURES OF THE WARMUP. All were riders using rolkur....so try again dressage federations, try again...
Anyone who does this to a horse a. only cares about money and dumb ribbons instead of a living being b. is prob a shitty rider and c. deserves to get bucked off and trampled in the worst way. This is inhumane.
Agree, but do feel sorry for 1 person being picked on when it is a problem with the whole sport (they could have done the video without showing the whole horse and rider in the start)
The poll should be the highest point. When the head is so tightly pulled into the chest, the top of his neck becomes the highest point. This is wrong, and brings him behind the vertical. Painful, and bad to watch...so sad.
The person who previously owned my 9yo dressage horse used rollkur on him. If you look at the corners of his mouth the skin is broken and sour. I only bit him for shows and I ride my others in soft bits such as double jointed snaffles and rubber pelhams. He is happier and has a much better topline with rollkur. Rollkur HAS to stop. It's getting ridiculous. 0:56 The horse's bit is FAR too strong and the rider is making it worse by pulling too hard.
If there's any doubt about the dreadful effects of rollkur then you only have to think of poor Moorlands Totilas, the wonder horse that endured years of suffering in the name of dressage. I would really like the advocates of rollkur to have their mouths filled with metal bars and their chins strapped to their chest. See how they like it!
Surgical scar tissue keeps my chin digging into my chest, especially when I'm moving forward. It's not only incredibly painful but it makes it difficult to breath. It pains me to see horses made to suffer in the same way while attempting to be the best athletes they are able to be. I don't know how anyone could expect a horse to be a great athlete while being forced to suffer like this
This is y i absolutely hate dressage... Its SICK. Personally i think it should be banned and horses shouldn't hav to suffer like this. Horses are often left in their stables with their heads strapped in this position with a piece of rope/string in their mouth and tied round the bottom of their neck... Its sick
literally maybe one in 500,000 dressage barns actually do that. one of our best dressage lesson horses lives out side 24/7. the others are only in at night and arent tied or anything. all of equestrians who don't ride dressage or non equestrians who tell us that we are abusive need to shut up an actually visit a dressage barn. or better yet do some actual research about he effects of dressage before you say we are sick and cruel. dressage is actually used to help some of our horses with muscle stiffness or horses who are finally done being lame. it is sort of like horse physical therapy and HELPS THEM ENGAGE ALL OF THEIR MUSCLES.
The beautiful, beautiful Donnperignon.. what happened to this wonderful horse? Saw him this year in Aachen and didn't recognized that is was the same horse I felt in love with 3 years ago :(
To watch these robot horses make me sad. No expression, no pleasure to move. It's not a question of a single moment, it's a question of well being and harmony between rider and horse as an attitude.
Almost all of these horses are being ridden quite tight on the curb rein which not only puts pressure on the curb grove but on the poll too forcing the horses head down and in. I may not be "dressage savvy" BUT i ride my own cob in a two reined pelham due to his strong pulling at times ( usually out hacling and fast open field work!) and my disability 99% of the time i ride with the curb looser or on the top rein only from which my horse is correctly on the bit but when i need to ride with the curb rein tighter i.e when he is in tank mode! his head is almost flat to his chest like this he does this because of the pressure of the curb and poll pressure. I hate to see these over bent horses and the pressure it is putting on their necks you can see the over developed top line too!
And making horses collect in dressage is NOT abuse it is sometimes used to strengthen muscles. Collection helps the horse engage all of their muscles. My horse is always dragging his hind and started out with a very weak hind. ( keep in mind he is a rescue) With all of the collection we have been doing with him he is finally using the proper muscles instead of just dragging his hind end. we have to do chiro because he came with a very crooked hind and with a little help from chiro and collection he is finally evening out. Dressage also helps them engage their back muscles.
Sad people who only care about glory and not how their horse feels. Absolutely dreadful. Nothing like taking advantage of a horse's kind nature. Despicable people who shouldn't be allowed near an equine. Shame on you :(
I’ll explain, it’s CRUELTY, I don’t know much about it but it’s clearly not natural, not comfortable or safe for the horse, please never use this method and warn others around you too.
a terrible practice and the vid description is perfect, if there is nothing to hide then why not allow filming? Dont practice rollkur and you don't have to be paranoid of being seen committing animal cruelty. Yes some horses will do it by themselves for the purpose of avoiding pain in their mouth, they are over compensating for harsh and heavy aids, trying to be super good to reduce the pain, it is the riders fault, like ALWAYS! No exception!
shauna linay Oh your a classic! Don't you dare come here and contradict us with your exploitation!! Call it what you like, it's still abuse. I ignore people like you
shauna linay This is correct. Spurs and whips, used properly, are not abuse. Not feeding a horse, worming it, not doing their teeth, not giving them water, not vaccinating them--THAT'S abuse. What training a horse, we use aids and artificial aids. That being said, when a horse's head it pulled to their chest, there is NO where in any equestrian education that says that is right. EVER!
The poll should be the highest point. When their head is so tightly pulled into their chest, the back/top of their neck becomes the highest point.. which is incorrect...doing this brings them behind the vertical. Very sad.
What is the benefit to rollkur? I'm not a horse person, just someone concerned with the welfare and proper treatment of animals, so please forgive my ignorance on the subject. I don't understand why this is being done to horses. I've watched a number of videos on the subject, but none of them ever discuss why people would do this to their horses.
It's just so the horse can look 'fancy' and classy. There is no other benefit, it can seriously damage a horse, along with the bit. (the bit is the metal thing in the horses mouth, there is 2 bits in a double bridle)
I don't think dressage/bits are wrong but Rollkur is. I ride with a bit but I hate seeing people pull the reins like a morron, Rollkur may not be forbiddden everywhere (part where I live I believe it is) but I sure hope it will be once. Also, I never use spurs.
okay as a dressage rider I find that most people think this is what we all do. Horses are supposed to collect them selves, and I know a horse that is super light in the bit that naturally goes behind the bit and the owner works on making them stretch forward. My trainer tells us if we are over bending or if the horse is to tight in the neck. Judges will take off points if the horses head is to tucked. Some horses also collect differently.
so sad. No horse should be treated this way. Our trainers teach us how to bend a horses neck to keep their back up and gain muscle. It also helps the horse not keep it head up high or it can feel uncomfortable. But this, this is terrible and im glad I never see anyone ride like this. Dressage isn't sport, jumping is. but I don't see abuse in it all the time, because the rider has respect for their horse and keeps soft hands on the rein while preforming. Rollkur riders on the other hand are cruel and have no respect.
Julia Hansen why is dressage not a sport, but jumping is? not all dressage riders have their horses head behind the vertical. Dressage is pretty much the base of every discipline in English riding. It requires a lot of discipline to reach international competitions. And oh boy it is a sport. I consider pretty much every discipline in both western and English as a sport, just because you don't like dressage you're saying it's not a sport, but it is. Just because it looks like dressage riders do nothing and the horse does all the work doesn't mean they're actually doing nothing. I can say the same about high level jumpers, who by the way, some of them, also use this method.
Rollkur isn't dressage. It is illegal dressage in a warm up arena. Dressage is kinder on their horses. Plus, it is better than getting eaten alive or slaughtered, a LOT of dressage trainers care GREATLY for their horses ROLLKUR is different!
If he did not have his mind on the pain in his neck and the bit and the spurs, maybe he would be thinking what his task was. Maybe he would do it better..
The FEI insists on turning a blind eye to the fact that not only i dressage becoming a mockery; we, who ride dressage, are automatically seen as animal-abusers. Shame. Deep, deep shame.
Im angry at those monsters.. I think they really dont know how to take care of a horse.. Im just saying.. i'd rather kill my horse than do this to beautiful horse! (i dont have own horse(justsaying)) But really D
Noud Van Lier I will agree here---I have friends who have shown me 'correct' rollkur--this is NOT it. Correct rollkur, the horse's nose is nowhere near it's chest--they are being flexed long and deep, but not hyper flexed. Like everything else, people have skewed the original purpose of rollkur (deep stretching) and made it what we see here.
From my research on Rollkur, it was intended to be a stretching exercise---if you look up the foundation of it, the concept was simply deep flexion---like anything else in the equestrian world, it's been misused--no different than tight martingales, tack poles etc. The rollkur we see now is not what I was shown. And what bothers me is that the rollkur shown here is being taught----nothing correct about this in ANY sport, and the FEI judges need to STOP rewarding it in the show ring. When the scores start to show 5s instead of 9s and 10s, then and only then, will it stop.
LE123LE123 Love your comment. Horses should be pulling toward the bit and engaging towards it. Using the bit backwards is submission and then you're lost.
Deep flexion can loosen up a horse, which was what Rollkur's original use was for. What we see now? This is mis-use--like everything else, someone found out a quirk when using this, likely for too long, and bingo, now it's done all the time. And it's wrong....
In almost all those pictures the second rein aka the "rein that makes them soften their poll" isn't even tight, the "tight one" is a snaffle and its the softest bit you could use. DRESSAGE IS NOT ABUSE. Dressage (in the google definition) is to show the horses ability and the rider's skills and knowledge. I'm a dressage rider and my horse is not ABUSED! If anything is abusive its saddle seat NOT DRESSAGE.
+Carrie Whitehouse I too am a dressage rider and I agree it isn't abusive... however rollkur is. All of my horses are trained with classical stretching techniques, and they will go with the softest hand, or without a bridle. A rider should rid mainly with their seat and legs, not their hands.
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They say when a horses head is pulled this far back all back all he can see is his feet which really freaks a horse out but since the bit is so painful he does it to get away from the pain. It also obstructs airway leading to other problems long term and causes spinal problems at the over flexed area of the neck.
This is just as bad as what is done to Tennessee walking horses. The stacks, chains and soaring. The people who do these atrocities also say it's for the horses own benefit. How sad.
I cannot for the life of me see how anyone who professes to love horses can do this to them. BLIND FREDDY can see this is painful. My non horsey friends can see it, my children can see it. What is the matter with you people. OPEN YOUR EYES CAUSE YOU HEART IS OBVIOUSLY SHUT DOWN !!!!!!
Only real and true riders know what this does to horses and good riders will never use it..
You can see the torture in their eyes...
Why don't you try dressage without rollkur and without spurs!
If horses could cry they would of.. l wish animals could talk and say, ''STOP HURTING ME''
We are their voice.. they need us
+Marit "real and true riders"
Anyone is a real and true rider if they have ridden a horse, you can't say they aren't a real rider if they have.
Thisismyfirstname Thisismylastname Yeah but some people, especially a lot of spoiled ones.. some can´t ride.. and just hurt the horses with their spurs.. and use rollkur on their horses.. rollkur is legal, ofcourse every rider starts at the beginning
***** l agree but spurs can hurt bad.. especially when you use them wrong l see young spoiled kids on a horse with spurs trying to ride and than they get bucked off.. because there's people who don't know how to use them. however l'm a horse rider for long time very long and l don't need them
l know people who use them good that's fine
But l see people kicking the horse hard with spurs and that makes me pissed because it can go straight to the horses body
Example:
www.google.nl/search?q=horse+spur+damage&biw=1366&bih=623&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIgtGk-MiSyQIVBJAPCh3K2wFV#imgrc=rRBIZqbnixnJiM%3A
This gives me chills.. and these people are not supposed to use them (warning it's kinda graphic.. Bloody) it's very sad..
There's also many horses where you absolutely can't use them on, some people who use spurs on a horse that if you move forward with barely doing anything they kick you off.. they react to every movement some don't need it
+Marit you are right. real and truely good riders can rider horses without cruelty. gadgets and gimmicks are used to make up for lack of skill and empaty to preserve the ego of some 'riders'. build trust with a horse by respect and kindness and you will reap the rewards . as for some of the replies below, esp the foul mouthed one who says we dont know who strong horses are...yes i do know how strong horses are - i've witnessed it many times. and the best way to control a horses is through build his trust in you with kind gentle methods. every time.
+Marit your're right. good riders dont need to use spurs and nor would they. i never used spurs and i never will. a horse can feel a fly land on them some humans think they cannot feel leg pressure? the use of spurs can cause a horse to become 'leg dead' ie fails to respond to leg pressure. i know i've ridden a number of horses like this and i can usually tell they have had spurs used on them in the past. the horses become so used to the pain they switch off and ignore the pain as it was so prevalent in their past history. if someone ruins a horses mouth or sides this way it's very difficult to reverse this, but a good rider can still get the best out of a horse with kind methods.
What i really dont get is how judges and the riders themsleves DONT SEE how its WRONG they think its so pretty the horse isnt in pain at all
Just look at their eyes, tell you everything. How sad.
Yes, and not just is this scenario. A lot of riding etc you can see it in their eyes. Very sad!!
I know, my heart breaks for them, if only we could save them all.
anyone who knows anything about horses knows and understands this is not natural or normal for the horses. I highly doubt the 1st dressage horses, like fighting ones had this type of posture. This needs to be stopped.
I know very little about horses and I can tell this is unnatural.
Why refer to history? Reiner Klimke footage riding Ahlerich is available on TH-cam. Good grief, not everyone rides in this manner.
@@SBlackmare so you are replying to a comment i made 4 years ago? Get a life
if a horse's nose is being forced to it's chest, it's WRONG. Specifically in dressage. My friends have shown me what correct warm up/flexion is, and I've also done it and not one of my horses or friend's horses look like this. This is incorrect. The art of dressage is to ride a horse's hind end up into hand--this is the exact opposite.
LE123LE123 Very well said. Nothing in life should work backwards.
rollkur and LDR doesnt just happen in dressage- it happens in jumping, racing, spanish riding schools, western, reining, and many other equestrian sports.
LDR?
all horses are beautiful and should not be treated this way. To be honest, as long as my horse is happy, I couldn't care less what he looks like! And it looks much more nicer when they have their heads, not when they look uncomfortable like this. Poor horses :(
The eyes of the world are needed to protect the horses! - It has gone 9 years from taking these pictures, AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE! Where are we?!
The weird thing is that the shapes and outlines are the same as the 17th and 18th century illustrations, the ones with the long curbs and titles about horsemastership. I thought we'd moved on....
Things must change in the horse sport world they're lives are important they give their all and should be kept training transported and ridden with respect and decency
I told my father that he and his girl friend were riding with rollkur and they said they didnt, well, when I saw this vid I knew they really did, I showed them and they believed me :)
And??
WTF IM GOING TO CRY THIS IS WRONG
YES and bring it on! I just saw the 'blue-tongue' video (plus almost every one of those trainers doing it) and if we're watching a Kur and the horses are frothing uncontrollably all over their necks, these trainers were warming up using Rollkur. Trainers 'train' and riders 'ride' and the polished result is not palatable. Juan Manuel and Fegero 12 from Spain do believe a trainer and a competition rider can be one . . . .and without any Rollkur.
the froth is from the reins on the necks, and the stuff from their mouths either means they are relaxed or they are using a copper bit and both are natural for the horse
Negative. It adversely affects the horse's salivary glands. Explanation here starts at about 5 minutes. th-cam.com/video/hM4fKJ9VtfU/w-d-xo.html
@Anne P .. I thought so re: Juan Manuel -- great to know! Comforting
I love how all the Dressage riders are saying "Not all dressage riders do this". I guess now you know how rodeo people feel having to constantly tell people that not all rodeos shock their animals.
If they are so adamant that this is not harmful perhaps they would allow the horse to be autopsied when it comes to the end of its useful life?
Or x-rayed or MRI imaging to preserve its life while getting a window into the condition of various tissues. I’m sure fundraising to cover the cost of the procedures would not be an issue from either side of the argument. Even the equine insurance companies may have a vested interest in the outcome.
I love how they say you cant judge based on a snapshot. I happen to know someone who took pictures at this exact same event and got OVER 300 PICTURES OF THE WARMUP. All were riders using rolkur....so try again dressage federations, try again...
OMG I DIDN´T KNOW THIS I HATE THOSE HUMANS IS NOT FEAR, I SIGNED THE PETITION I HOPE THIS END VERY SOON IT MUSN´T KEEP GOING
Anyone who does this to a horse a. only cares about money and dumb ribbons instead of a living being b. is prob a shitty rider and c. deserves to get bucked off and trampled in the worst way. This is inhumane.
Agree, but do feel sorry for 1 person being picked on when it is a problem with the whole sport (they could have done the video without showing the whole horse and rider in the start)
Clearly that is an ANIMAL IN DISTRESS AND PAIN!! Anyone with EYES can see that!
The poll should be the highest point. When the head is so tightly pulled into the chest, the top of his neck becomes the highest point. This is wrong, and brings him behind the vertical. Painful, and bad to watch...so sad.
The person who previously owned my 9yo dressage horse used rollkur on him. If you look at the corners of his mouth the skin is broken and sour. I only bit him for shows and I ride my others in soft bits such as double jointed snaffles and rubber pelhams. He is happier and has a much better topline with rollkur. Rollkur HAS to stop. It's getting ridiculous.
0:56 The horse's bit is FAR too strong and the rider is making it worse by pulling too hard.
If there's any doubt about the dreadful effects of rollkur then you only have to think of poor Moorlands Totilas, the wonder horse that endured years of suffering in the name of dressage. I would really like the advocates of rollkur to have their mouths filled with metal bars and their chins strapped to their chest. See how they like it!
Surgical scar tissue keeps my chin digging into my chest, especially when I'm moving forward. It's not only incredibly painful but it makes it difficult to breath. It pains me to see horses made to suffer in the same way while attempting to be the best athletes they are able to be. I don't know how anyone could expect a horse to be a great athlete while being forced to suffer like this
This is y i absolutely hate dressage... Its SICK. Personally i think it should be banned and horses shouldn't hav to suffer like this. Horses are often left in their stables with their heads strapped in this position with a piece of rope/string in their mouth and tied round the bottom of their neck... Its sick
literally maybe one in 500,000 dressage barns actually do that. one of our best dressage lesson horses lives out side 24/7. the others are only in at night and arent tied or anything. all of equestrians who don't ride dressage or non equestrians who tell us that we are abusive need to shut up an actually visit a dressage barn. or better yet do some actual research about he effects of dressage before you say we are sick and cruel. dressage is actually used to help some of our horses with muscle stiffness or horses who are finally done being lame. it is sort of like horse physical therapy and HELPS THEM ENGAGE ALL OF THEIR MUSCLES.
To say nothing of the spur scars and
marks on the poor horses sides that they have tried to cover over!
The beautiful, beautiful Donnperignon.. what happened to this wonderful horse? Saw him this year in Aachen and didn't recognized that is was the same horse I felt in love with 3 years ago :(
To watch these robot horses make me sad. No expression, no pleasure to move. It's not a question of a single moment, it's a question of well being and harmony between rider and horse as an attitude.
We have to blame the organizers and the judges, any one that warming up at the competition like that must be send home!.
I don't think a horse with a nice arched neck in dressage is bad, but super tight reins, hyper flexion, and Rollkur are good at all.
Almost all of these horses are being ridden quite tight on the curb rein which not only puts pressure on the curb grove but on the poll too forcing the horses head down and in. I may not be "dressage savvy" BUT i ride my own cob in a two reined pelham due to his strong pulling at times ( usually out hacling and fast open field work!) and my disability 99% of the time i ride with the curb looser or on the top rein only from which my horse is correctly on the bit but when i need to ride with the curb rein tighter i.e when he is in tank mode! his head is almost flat to his chest like this he does this because of the pressure of the curb and poll pressure. I hate to see these over bent horses and the pressure it is putting on their necks you can see the over developed top line too!
so sad😣 i am crying... name song?
And making horses collect in dressage is NOT abuse it is sometimes used to strengthen muscles. Collection helps the horse engage all of their muscles. My horse is always dragging his hind and started out with a very weak hind. ( keep in mind he is a rescue) With all of the collection we have been doing with him he is finally using the proper muscles instead of just dragging his hind end. we have to do chiro because he came with a very crooked hind and with a little help from chiro and collection he is finally evening out. Dressage also helps them engage their back muscles.
Exactly. This should not be the norm. This is not dressage.
Sad people who only care about glory and not how their horse feels. Absolutely dreadful. Nothing like taking advantage of a horse's kind nature. Despicable people who shouldn't be allowed near an equine. Shame on you :(
This is not collection. This is rollkur. Also this isn’t aimed at the person who made the video.
Those poor horses, their eyes just look dead.
I don't understand why this technique would even be used.
What does it accomplish as far as dressage training ?
I've never heard the word term rollkur can some one explain.
I’ll explain, it’s CRUELTY, I don’t know much about it but it’s clearly not natural, not comfortable or safe for the horse, please never use this method and warn others around you too.
a terrible practice and the vid description is perfect, if there is nothing to hide then why not allow filming?
Dont practice rollkur and you don't have to be paranoid of being seen committing animal cruelty.
Yes some horses will do it by themselves for the purpose of avoiding pain in their mouth, they are over compensating for harsh and heavy aids, trying to be super good to reduce the pain, it is the riders fault, like ALWAYS! No exception!
I've never heard the word term rollkur can some one explain.please.
+Joe Barling Hyperflexion. Forcing the horse to bend its neck into an unnatural position through pressure in the reins.
BernerAzuro thank you x
Exploiting at it's best. Rollkur, spurs, bits, injuries, whips etc etc? How do riders sleep at night!?
Spurs and whip are not abuse if they are used correctly as a training aid not a punishment.
shauna linay Oh your a classic! Don't you dare come here and contradict us with your exploitation!! Call it what you like, it's still abuse. I ignore people like you
you can have your wrong opinion thats fine lol
shauna linay This is correct. Spurs and whips, used properly, are not abuse. Not feeding a horse, worming it, not doing their teeth, not giving them water, not vaccinating them--THAT'S abuse. What training a horse, we use aids and artificial aids. That being said, when a horse's head it pulled to their chest, there is NO where in any equestrian education that says that is right. EVER!
LE123LE123 I never said abuse. I said exploiting, there's a difference!!!
The horse's eyes tell everything...
The poll should be the highest point. When their head is so tightly pulled into their chest, the back/top of their neck becomes the highest point.. which is incorrect...doing this brings them behind the vertical. Very sad.
even a beautiful shiny coat doesn't always mean they are treated humanely
What is the benefit to rollkur? I'm not a horse person, just someone concerned with the welfare and proper treatment of animals, so please forgive my ignorance on the subject. I don't understand why this is being done to horses. I've watched a number of videos on the subject, but none of them ever discuss why people would do this to their horses.
It's just so the horse can look 'fancy' and classy. There is no other benefit, it can seriously damage a horse, along with the bit. (the bit is the metal thing in the horses mouth, there is 2 bits in a double bridle)
I will do what it takes to stop those bastards from torturing horses in this horrible way damaging them and causing pain to them
I don't think dressage/bits are wrong but Rollkur is. I ride with a bit but I hate seeing people pull the reins like a morron, Rollkur may not be forbiddden everywhere (part where I live I believe it is) but I sure hope it will be once. Also, I never use spurs.
okay as a dressage rider I find that most people think this is what we all do. Horses are supposed to collect them selves, and I know a horse that is super light in the bit that naturally goes behind the bit and the owner works on making them stretch forward. My trainer tells us if we are over bending or if the horse is to tight in the neck. Judges will take off points if the horses head is to tucked. Some horses also collect differently.
No,No,No, Rollkur Horses 😢😢😢😢
Marit i agree
Shame on the judges they obviously aren t meant for the job!
so sad. No horse should be treated this way. Our trainers teach us how to bend a horses neck to keep their back up and gain muscle. It also helps the horse not keep it head up high or it can feel uncomfortable. But this, this is terrible and im glad I never see anyone ride like this. Dressage isn't sport, jumping is. but I don't see abuse in it all the time, because the rider has respect for their horse and keeps soft hands on the rein while preforming. Rollkur riders on the other hand are cruel and have no respect.
+Julia Hansen some jumping horses are also trained using cruel methods. it's everywhere unfortunately.
Julia Hansen why is dressage not a sport, but jumping is? not all dressage riders have their horses head behind the vertical. Dressage is pretty much the base of every discipline in English riding. It requires a lot of discipline to reach international competitions. And oh boy it is a sport. I consider pretty much every discipline in both western and English as a sport, just because you don't like dressage you're saying it's not a sport, but it is. Just because it looks like dressage riders do nothing and the horse does all the work doesn't mean they're actually doing nothing. I can say the same about high level jumpers, who by the way, some of them, also use this method.
Rollkur isn't dressage. It is illegal dressage in a warm up arena. Dressage is kinder on their horses. Plus, it is better than getting eaten alive or slaughtered, a LOT of dressage trainers care GREATLY for their horses ROLLKUR is different!
Even with little knowledge about horses, this just looks uncomfortable for them.
If he did not have his mind on the pain in his neck and the bit and the spurs, maybe he would be thinking what his task was. Maybe he would do it better..
The FEI insists on turning a blind eye to the fact that not only i dressage becoming a mockery; we, who ride dressage, are automatically seen as animal-abusers. Shame. Deep, deep shame.
i guess the hardest part to the horse is that they cant breath freely, and wont be able to suck in enough oxygen.
HORSES CANT BEATHE FROM THEIR MOUTHS. sorry bout the caps lock didnt know it was on
Im angry at those monsters.. I think they really dont know how to take care of a horse..
Im just saying.. i'd rather kill my horse than do this to beautiful horse! (i dont have own horse(justsaying)) But really D
Makes me sick.
Omg there was literally no horses in this entire video that were being ridden rolkur
Allure Rabbitry yes there is. If you think this is natural you're fucking disgusting.
People don't deserve horses!
We don't use it often and it is a training. I think this video isnt right beceause you let us only see that it could be bad but that isnt
Noud Van Lier I will agree here---I have friends who have shown me 'correct' rollkur--this is NOT it. Correct rollkur, the horse's nose is nowhere near it's chest--they are being flexed long and deep, but not hyper flexed. Like everything else, people have skewed the original purpose of rollkur (deep stretching) and made it what we see here.
From my research on Rollkur, it was intended to be a stretching exercise---if you look up the foundation of it, the concept was simply deep flexion---like anything else in the equestrian world, it's been misused--no different than tight martingales, tack poles etc. The rollkur we see now is not what I was shown. And what bothers me is that the rollkur shown here is being taught----nothing correct about this in ANY sport, and the FEI judges need to STOP rewarding it in the show ring. When the scores start to show 5s instead of 9s and 10s, then and only then, will it stop.
***** Horses need to want to stretch into the bit but they are not the ones winning competitions lately.
LE123LE123 Love your comment. Horses should be pulling toward the bit and engaging towards it. Using the bit backwards is submission and then you're lost.
Deep flexion can loosen up a horse, which was what Rollkur's original use was for. What we see now? This is mis-use--like everything else, someone found out a quirk when using this, likely for too long, and bingo, now it's done all the time. And it's wrong....
Ну это уже слишком!..
BANNED by FEI !!!
syndrome of dead eye. horses torture
Its not natural for a horse to have its neck like that and all that crap in the horses mouth its horrible
In almost all those pictures the second rein aka the "rein that makes them soften their poll" isn't even tight, the "tight one" is a snaffle and its the softest bit you could use. DRESSAGE IS NOT ABUSE. Dressage (in the google definition) is to show the horses ability and the rider's skills and knowledge. I'm a dressage rider and my horse is not ABUSED! If anything is abusive its saddle seat NOT DRESSAGE.
+Carrie Whitehouse I too am a dressage rider and I agree it isn't abusive... however rollkur is. All of my horses are trained with classical stretching techniques, and they will go with the softest hand, or without a bridle. A rider should rid mainly with their seat and legs, not their hands.
i wish i was karma =_=
okropne jak tak można kaleczyc konie i sprawiac im tak duzo bólu -tak kochaja konie .... barbarzynstwo
Sluta det är så jävla dumt😭😭😭😭😭😭
I cannot stand to watch competition dressage - classical dressage from Nuno Oliveira is vastly different from this cruel and sadistic sport.
ALLE REITER SOFORT VERGAZEN
:((( zo zielig heh
Abuse
It is pretty awful but this video doesn't explain anything.
Not every dressage riders do this ... Some people really should calm down and stop being so paranoïde !
Whatever
Max Shriane I know that, but I also know that rollkur happens far too much
Makes me sick.