I did hear about this crash. And honestly, this is one crash where both airline crews and the air traffic crews were guilty of this happening. The weather and the bombing were both beyond anyone's control
Even if it was a perfectly clear day and at a larger airport, taking off without clearance is a potentially fatal act. KLM was the reason those people died. PERIOD..
I lived in West Germany at the time and the evening news brought the tragic news. The Dutch Newspaper 'De Telegraaf' had pictures of the Crew and the Flight Attendants all over the Front Page. I have seen several documentaries, and no matter who was to blame, it still haunts us for decades to come.
It couldn't be more obvious that the arrogant, impatient, KLM pilot was obviously responsible for the accident regardless of the reports. He didn't have clearance to take off. End of story. It was all about him and many people died because of it. Shameful how this was sugar coated.
Van Zant took off without permission at near or below the legally permissible visibility, it's one of the most simple causes to an air crash there is. There is no accident chain, just the single link of Van Zant taking off without permission in too low of visibility.
I was 18 when this tragedy occurred. I’d never been in a plane. This had such a profound effect on me that I never boarded a plane until I was 29 years old.
Allow me to put this into perspective for you: This accident, along with the other top 10 worst aviation accidents in history has a combined death toll of 3,213 people, which is a tenth of the number of people killed in car crashes in the US alone. Your chances of dying in a plane crash today are one in 11 million.
The fact that the Netherland’s investigation blamed everyone but the KLM pilot is beyond ridiculous. All of his decisions that day led to that disaster. Taking on extra fuel, delaying the takeoff for both him and the Pan Am flight, assuming the Pan Am flight was off the runway, trying to take off before he even had ATC clearance and then finally taking off without takeoff clearance. If he doesn’t make any one of those terrible decisions everyone lives. It’s really that simple. And also I give the air traffic controllers a lot credit. They had an almost impossible situation to deal with and they actually executed everything correctly.
In a day before crew resource management, NO ONE would question capt. van zant, even reminding him that take-off clearance was NOT given. He was much too important and experienced.
They were using the runway as a taxiway. Ground control should not have put two planes on the runway at the same time. It was a case of placing expediency over safety.
Without visibility OR radar, no way to tell if planes are where you want them to be (unless the pilots know where they are, and Pan Am didn't seem to. Why wasn't C3 and C4 being used in the communications ?). Basically, you are traffic "control" In name only.
Absolutely. Another take: if only van Zanten had remembered his passengers, that heterodyne masking someone's transmission, the fact that the Pan Am hadn't confirmed leaving the runway, and what he was really there to do.
Narration is vague at 1:11:25 : "..a 747 can land there, the runway's long enough, but that's all." Did authorities jerk all planes into the small airport, despite knowing it was inadequate for big jets ?
Just like every air crash, its never just one thing to cause the accident. We can always say " well if this didn't happen then it wouldn't of happened" but whats done is done. All we can do is remember those who perished and make sure something positive comes of this accident to make sure future flights don't face the same predicaments.
Yes. But then having many factors that could be all linked or contributed to a certain incident, Doesn't exclude the fact that one of these factor rises above all others as the main cause of it. Nor does it make the KLM's pilot last catastrophic decision more digestable..It's also very important to discriminate between unexpected developing factors that are mostly beyond human control or unintentional (Weather, Sudden security breach at airport, Limited capacity of the alternative airport), And factors that involves taking unnecessary huge risk as deliberate disregard to the simplest rules of aviation. You don't just take off without ATC clearance like this..
1:04:35 While I am Caucasian, did she really have to say “one of the black flight attendants”? Especially since that young woman heroically lost her life. Couldn’t she have said “one of the flight attendants”?
The mayday disaster verision our the best ones if you don’t get uploads of them that have the god annoying piano music in the back constantly going on four the whole run of the episode, also air crash investigation s one’s our narrated pretty good and they give good abriged retelling narration of the incidents.
That Captain is a lil Itch!!! Nasty way he talks to his crew, unacceptable! Yes small lil things can make a jet come down…. But this case…. I strongly feel it was that nasty captain who was going to break the Rules!!!!
There are many circumstances involved leading to a crash. Both KLM and Pan Am are aware that they will be both be backtracking on the same runway as per instruction by control tower and for Pan Am to exit further down the runway to the taxiway to give way for KLM's takeoff. KLM got their departure clearance but NOT their take off clearance. KLM took off without T/O clearance which is a total disregard to the most basic and rudimentary requirement of all. To me KLM is entirely at fault.
Pilot error does not eliminate or excuse errors/decisions made by ATC, airport owners, or other pilots. No doubt the terrorists felt blame for the lives lost was not on them or their "noble" cause. Obstructing flight operations in any way is criminal for obvious reasons.
ATC ( hence Spain ) should have closed the airport the instant one of their planes seemed lost, instead of chiding the pilots. If the soccer game was even turned on in the tower, you dont have a "sterile" environment - which is required in the cockpit. Counting exits because you cant even read the numbered signs appears degraded to a point of desperation. And NO runway (center ) light ? Right. Spain want'd no part of their share of responsibility.
I’m not trying to be obtuse…but when that older woman said “that was a long four hours without coffee, or pop, or anything” I though to myself “what a privileged life you have led.” Ha ha Bless her heart.
@@joinjen3854 I understand. I have e spent over four hours myself in the Las Vegas tarmac. It’s just the way she phrased it. By God’s grace she is still here to tell her story. That’s what matters most.
Too bad the air traffic controllers inside the tower wasn't charged for homicide they will responsible for that melee Smmfh Two Jumbo Jets on the same Runway in the fog?? COME on man
The bomb at the terminal is what caused all the heavy planes to have to land at Los Rodeos Airport in Tenerife. It was just the first step in well over a dozen things that went wrong that day. I counted the steps that led to this a few years ago and I stopped counting around number seventeen. It was a "perfect storm" in flight disasters.
When there are two planes on the runway in poor visibility you must be extra cautious. All six pilot/engineers are guilty of gambling with the lives of hundreds, unforgivable. Why didn't Pan Am clarify with Tower if it was exit Charlie 3 or Charlie 4? Unprofessional. We know the KLM Captain was under stress, why did the F/O and engineer allow him to take-off without clearance? It seems everyone was guessing, gambling ... sickening.
Lucky Me, don't blame the Pan Am pilots, they didn't do anything wrong. They were looking for the exit and kept the controller informed. As for exit 3, it has been shown that it was not compatible with the Boeing 747. As for the co-pilot and KLM engineer, they tried to keep the commander from starting, but with a boss like that, they couldn't do much more. I remind you that, in addition to being the commander of that flight, the man was the head of the pilots and instructor. At that time, CRM was still not what it is today.
I really object to this production. Whilst it is accepted that VanZantens actions were the cause of this tragedy, the characterisation of the man in this production are different from the reports of those who knew him. Has was reported to have a friendly disposition to his colleagues. Typical Hollopywood though, they have to over egg the personalities and they sure as heck need to have a devil. A video analysis by another You Tuber Mentour Pilot - himself a commercial airline captain, is far more accurate.
@@budimpla yep look at the whitewash he did of air France concorde. Totally pilot fault. Even in a car on the street, if YOU drive into SOMEONE ELSE it's always YOUR fault
Have you heard about this crash? Who's fault do you think it was?
Watch more aviation disaster videos here: bit.ly/3KKZLDk
I did hear about this crash. And honestly, this is one crash where both airline crews and the air traffic crews were guilty of this happening. The weather and the bombing were both beyond anyone's control
@thecritic8096 Either way you look at it, this was one of the worst plane accidents in history...
Even if it was a perfectly clear day and at a larger airport, taking off without clearance is a potentially fatal act. KLM was the reason those people died. PERIOD..
Closing an airport due to weather is ALWAYS a better option than closing it due to a crash.
I lived in West Germany at the time and the evening news brought the tragic news. The Dutch Newspaper 'De Telegraaf' had pictures of the Crew and the Flight Attendants all over the Front Page. I have seen several documentaries, and no matter who was to blame, it still haunts us for decades to come.
It couldn't be more obvious that the arrogant, impatient, KLM pilot was obviously responsible for the accident regardless of the reports.
He didn't have clearance to take off.
End of story.
It was all about him and many people died because of it. Shameful how this was sugar coated.
Completely Agree
Van Zant took off without permission at near or below the legally permissible visibility, it's one of the most simple causes to an air crash there is. There is no accident chain, just the single link of Van Zant taking off without permission in too low of visibility.
I was 18 when this tragedy occurred. I’d never been in a plane. This had such a profound effect on me that I never boarded a plane until I was 29 years old.
Allow me to put this into perspective for you: This accident, along with the other top 10 worst aviation accidents in history has a combined death toll of 3,213 people, which is a tenth of the number of people killed in car crashes in the US alone. Your chances of dying in a plane crash today are one in 11 million.
I’ve watched many versions of this crash, but this one wins hands down.
The fact that the Netherland’s investigation blamed everyone but the KLM pilot is beyond ridiculous. All of his decisions that day led to that disaster. Taking on extra fuel, delaying the takeoff for both him and the Pan Am flight, assuming the Pan Am flight was off the runway, trying to take off before he even had ATC clearance and then finally taking off without takeoff clearance. If he doesn’t make any one of those terrible decisions everyone lives. It’s really that simple. And also I give the air traffic controllers a lot credit. They had an almost impossible situation to deal with and they actually executed everything correctly.
In a day before crew resource management, NO ONE would question capt. van zant, even reminding him that take-off clearance was NOT given. He was much too important and experienced.
That’s all he did was bitch bitch bitch & He…!!!! Caused this Extremely tragedy!!
I’m surprised no one said anything to his Supervisor!!
The Tenerife disaster was a multitude of horrible things BUT the KLM Captain could have saved everyone.
They were using the runway as a taxiway. Ground control should not have put two planes on the runway at the same time. It was a case of placing expediency over safety.
No, that wasn't the problem here. The problem was the KLM which started the take off without clearance
Without visibility OR
radar, no way to tell if planes are where you want them to be (unless the pilots know where they are, and Pan Am didn't seem to.
Why wasn't C3 and C4 being used in the communications ?). Basically, you are traffic "control"
In name only.
The KLM pilots were too impatient...
Captain van Zanten was. The copilot did warn, but this captain felt himself being too superior.
I like the pilots in the pan am 747 the best
If only the Pan Am 747 was allowed to hold.
Absolutely.
Another take: if only van Zanten had remembered his passengers, that heterodyne masking someone's transmission, the fact that the Pan Am hadn't confirmed leaving the runway, and what he was really there to do.
and... if only the Basques and the Spanish government could have found ways to coexist peacefully. ☹
Airplanes wouldn’t crash if they were EV hybrids with impact absorbers.
Narration is vague at 1:11:25 : "..a 747 can land there, the runway's long enough, but that's all." Did authorities jerk all planes into the small airport, despite knowing it was inadequate for big jets ?
That's a shame...
Just like every air crash, its never just one thing to cause the accident. We can always say " well if this didn't happen then it wouldn't of happened" but whats done is done. All we can do is remember those who perished and make sure something positive comes of this accident to make sure future flights don't face the same predicaments.
Yes. But then having many factors that could be all linked or contributed to a certain incident, Doesn't exclude the fact that one of these factor rises above all others as the main cause of it. Nor does it make the KLM's pilot last catastrophic decision more digestable..It's also very important to discriminate between unexpected developing factors that are mostly beyond human control or unintentional (Weather, Sudden security breach at airport, Limited capacity of the alternative airport), And factors that involves taking unnecessary huge risk as deliberate disregard to the simplest rules of aviation. You don't just take off without ATC clearance like this..
1:04:35 While I am Caucasian, did she really have to say “one of the black flight attendants”? Especially since that young woman heroically lost her life. Couldn’t she have said “one of the flight attendants”?
Thank You
I don't think we should be criticising people who had such a traumatic experience.
The mayday disaster verision our the best ones if you don’t get uploads of them that have the god annoying piano music in the back constantly going on four the whole run of the episode, also air crash investigation s one’s our narrated pretty good and they give good abriged retelling narration of the incidents.
So sad...
You should travel by train or cruise ship. Safer, cheaper and better for the environment.
The gloomy weather seemed to be an omen of the tragedy ahead...
KLM captain was a horrible person it seems like. Hateful with co pilot and technical guy. Was not necessary to be that hateful.
Just why did the KLM pilot leave? I would of lost my license just to save people & told that KLM pilot that he was in the wrong.
That Captain is a lil Itch!!! Nasty way he talks to his crew, unacceptable! Yes small lil things can make a jet come down…. But this case…. I strongly feel it was that nasty captain who was going to break the Rules!!!!
There are many circumstances involved leading to a crash. Both KLM and Pan Am are aware that they will be both be backtracking on the same runway as per instruction by control tower and for Pan Am to exit further down the runway to the taxiway to give way for KLM's takeoff. KLM got their departure clearance but NOT their take off clearance. KLM took off without T/O clearance which is a total disregard to the most basic and rudimentary requirement of all. To me KLM is entirely at fault.
Once you get off the plane you can’t get back on.
We all know just one 'in a rush' captain was responsible
IF the madman had JUST WAITED
Nothing untoward would have occured.
That Captain is rude and arrogant
Pilot error does not eliminate or excuse errors/decisions made by ATC, airport owners, or other pilots. No doubt the terrorists felt blame for the lives lost was not on them or their "noble" cause. Obstructing flight operations in any way is criminal for
obvious reasons.
ATC ( hence Spain )
should have closed the airport the instant one of their planes seemed lost,
instead of chiding the pilots. If the soccer game was even turned on in the tower, you dont have a "sterile" environment - which is required in the cockpit. Counting exits because you cant even read the
numbered signs appears degraded to a point of desperation. And NO runway (center )
light ? Right. Spain want'd no part of their share of responsibility.
Just terrible accident, I wasn’t even born yet but I think flying is just amazing.
I was 15 when this happened? 💥💀
I’m not trying to be obtuse…but when that older woman said “that was a long four hours without coffee, or pop, or anything” I though to myself “what a privileged life you have led.” Ha ha Bless her heart.
A pressurized airplane dehydrates humans.
@@joinjen3854 I understand. I have e spent over four hours myself in the Las Vegas tarmac. It’s just the way she phrased it. By God’s grace she is still here to tell her story. That’s what matters most.
@@YourFreeBeats I believe she died.
583 people died🔥💀 that day, that's a lot of people? 😭
Too bad the air traffic controllers inside the tower wasn't charged for homicide they will responsible for that melee
Smmfh
Two Jumbo Jets on the same Runway in the fog?? COME on man
NOPE. KLM had ZERO clearance for take off in heavy fog. Clipper Pan Am had NOT said they were on to the taxi way. ATC was in over their capabilities.
@@joinjen3854
Well if it wasn't them some pilot in one of the jets mistook the radio traffic coming from the air traffic controllers
@@joinjen3854
Can I hear your answer aforementioned comment ?
@@airborne8464 thar is why commercial flights IDENTIFY themselves every radio transmission. Go to a channel that fits your 70 IQ.
All because of that bomb 💣 at the terminal? 🔥💀
The bomb at the terminal is what caused all the heavy planes to have to land at Los Rodeos Airport in Tenerife. It was just the first step in well over a dozen things that went wrong that day. I counted the steps that led to this a few years ago and I stopped counting around number seventeen. It was a "perfect storm" in flight disasters.
When there are two planes on the runway in poor visibility you must be extra cautious. All six pilot/engineers are guilty of gambling with the lives of hundreds, unforgivable. Why didn't Pan Am clarify with Tower if it was exit Charlie 3 or Charlie 4? Unprofessional. We know the KLM Captain was under stress, why did the F/O and engineer allow him to take-off without clearance? It seems everyone was guessing, gambling ... sickening.
Lucky Me, don't blame the Pan Am pilots, they didn't do anything wrong. They were looking for the exit and kept the controller informed. As for exit 3, it has been shown that it was not compatible with the Boeing 747. As for the co-pilot and KLM engineer, they tried to keep the commander from starting, but with a boss like that, they couldn't do much more. I remind you that, in addition to being the commander of that flight, the man was the head of the pilots and instructor. At that time, CRM was still not what it is today.
Loving the things of this world money & jobs and you will lose both everything is meaningless safety first
dont think u were thinkin bout an oman then kreskin.
Capt Vans S ans is tyrant he is handling his crew like serfs.
Another accident
I really object to this production. Whilst it is accepted that VanZantens actions were the cause of this tragedy, the characterisation of the man in this production are different from the reports of those who knew him. Has was reported to have a friendly disposition to his colleagues. Typical Hollopywood though, they have to over egg the personalities and they sure as heck need to have a devil. A video analysis by another You Tuber Mentour Pilot - himself a commercial airline captain, is far more accurate.
Michael Bruce, I follow the Mentour Pilot, but he defends pilots too much, no matter how big their mistakes are.
@@budimpla yep look at the whitewash he did of air France concorde. Totally pilot fault. Even in a car on the street, if YOU drive into SOMEONE ELSE it's always YOUR fault
Took off without ATC clearance. Says it all.