Here it seems the body notion arises more from the senses than thought. Maybe not -but when an instant gut reaction occurs (which is not controllable) it seems to immediately reinforce “bodyness” . noticing that it’s just an illusion of “me” and “my body” lessens the “grip” but then inquiry starts again. Sigh.. It’s tiresome.
I suggest doing something you enjoy that is very sensory in nature and forgetting about the inquiry thing as the main focus. This is all about curiosity re. the mystery in a way that leads to the forgetting of identity and separation. Doing something for the sake of doing it alone and not in persuit of insight is powerful practice, because it bypasses the seaker function in mind. That way there isn't a resistance to experience, there is just immersion and enjoyment 🙂 It took me so long to get this, so long 😂 That this is all a out enjoying and being at peace with what is here, not looking for a better this ❤️
Thanks for answering David, your pointing starts up an investigation of my own experience. I relate to your description of the augmentation, and the term itself resonates a lot. My experiences with dmt and mushrooms highlighted that added-on experience of spatiality, dimension, and object permanence. It was clear that the substantiality of me and other things and people, the solidity of events occuring, the solidity of the content of thoughts, are not really existing. And there was a constant restarting of that process. It was attempting to solidify things and events, but they were not sticking. Freefalling is a good term to use to describe this, but also what is it that's freefalling, that was also dropping and restarting. Immense love and compassion was interspersed in that succession of start/restart. The suffering is based in delusion. You pointing is top David, thanks so much.
Awesome man 🙂 Yeah there seem to be a lot of similarities with the psychedelic experiences, I actually found it to be a powerful tool but I am always hesitant to talk about it too much because there are a lot of pitfalls etc.. It so easily gets framed as a personal experience in time and isolated within that context, meaning the insight isn't really accessible outwith the "trip". When I recalled the insights from the experiences in immediate, present reality, everything changed 😄 Sounds clear to me. Do you have the experience of separateness/boundaries in the senses? Like, a multiplicity of solid and inherently existing objects in a world "out there" and an actually inherent center point from where you - the subject - is looking out at the world as if it were something in the world moving through it? Or has that all clarified as added by thought? Re. what it is that's stopping and starting, it's so mysterious. As you might know it clarifies in a way that is too simple to cognitively understand as an objective experience. If I was to describe it I'd probably say it's something like a bundle of sensations with an illusory though function wrapping it all together in a context. It amazing that it can make something so powerfuly convincing from what is essentially thought. It bizarre, the thoughts and the sensations almost lose their definition in a way and blend something together, whilst at the same time ignoring other sensations. That's why I like the term "awakening", because it illustrates the strange dream like quality of identity 😄
@@difficult_to_describe This is a bit of a long one David. If you have any insight, I'm totally open to it, but no questions come up really. 𝘐𝘵 𝘴𝘰 𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘪𝘭𝘺 𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘴 𝘧𝘳𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵, 𝘮𝘦𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘪𝘴𝘯'𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘶𝘵𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 "𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘱". Totally happened like that for me, but with time and multiple trips, it was like there was a new orientation that I discovered in the ordinary state of consciousness, in ongoing experience. I started being fascinated by sense experience in a way that was just utterly silent, effortless, and completely contrasting my usual way of functioning up until that moment. 𝘋𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘦𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴/𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘴? 𝘓𝘪𝘬𝘦, 𝘢 𝘮𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘪𝘱𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘰𝘭𝘪𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘦𝘹𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 "𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦" 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶 - 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵 - 𝘪𝘴 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘪𝘧 𝘪𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘪𝘵? 𝘖𝘳 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵? To oversimplify, it's half/half. A particular insight that is vivid in my experience at this point is how I can sort of shift in and out of two different experiences-one that is the usual way of perceiving permanent objects inside and outside. The other way is how everything can be perceived as just close, no distance. But it's not like the objects are close, it's just experience close, you know? In that sense, the outside objects are not experienced as objects. They're just in. And it feels completely effortless. As if perceiving objects out there involved a constant need to understand something about them. A constant mix of stories and solid objects in real time happening all around me, and I understand them and have to keep track of them. So I'm kind of in between two worlds David. This effortless orientation opened up for me and is available, thought it feels like it has slowly integrated such that there is not as much contrast anymore. And also maybe the augmentation mechanism regained some more ground in the meanwhile, but it definitely suffered a critical hit in a manner of speaking. In a different vein, there is a lot of processing happening. The body has intense energetics on a regular basis. It gets charged up and I need to stop and really notice holding and feel everything. My sight becomes hazy as the body sense is taking center stage. I usually cry eventually, and I get surges of energy through the body, mainly through the legs, back and head. It feels like resistance to intense sense experience has been the norm, and it feels intrinsically tied to the object permanence process of the mind and thoughts. I have no idea, but this is happening and it feels like I can trust it. It's scary sometimes though, and that's a momentary position/perspective too. What's clarifying more and more is that if it's here, it's already here, whatever it is. Whether it's a thought, an emotion, sensation, etc. And a movement away from what's already here is a diversion mechanism that's not necessary. 𝘙𝘦. 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨, 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘰 𝘮𝘺𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴. 𝘈𝘴 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘮𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸 𝘪𝘵 𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘰𝘰 𝘴𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘰𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘰𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦. 𝘐𝘧 𝘐 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘣𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘐'𝘥 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘣𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘺 𝘴𝘢𝘺 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘢 𝘣𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘢𝘯 𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘶𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘧𝘶𝘯𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘳𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘵 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘵𝘰𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵. That's exactly right, David. There's no pin pointing anything about that recognition, and it can still happen that the mind tries to describe it in some way. I can be here agreeing and seeing the point in how you're describing things, but it's not as if that's anything that can be held on to. It's such a funny thing really.
@@difficult_to_describe re. talking about psychedelics, I'm really curious about more you have to say on the topic, but totally understandable that you shy away from the topic. It can totally get people mixed up in stories even more and who knows what other effects it can have neurologically for some. Maybe I'll send you an email if you have the time to chat about it. re. "Do you have the experience of separateness/boundaries in the senses?" -it's still the main mode, but over some time something started to clarify in the visual field, somewhat like you describe it was for you. After some mushroom trips, even when not having consumed the substance, this fascination with the seen remained, and feels like something that was continuously accessible, and feels part of my experience to this day. I became fascinated with the visual in such a way that it felt like a part of my experience was reducing. I would describe it as the need to understand what I am seeing. That felt interest in understanding what is happening and what I am seeing can decrease. It feels like the visual is inside. It made whatever appeared so interesting and intimate. Boring old modern cars, sidewalks, trees, gray sky, all these typically uninteresting things, then a 180 degrees into feeling everything as the most valuable thing that there is. So now I feel in between worlds. The insight described above feels like it is slowly clarifying with thoughts and emotions as well. I have moments when I have a tiny insight that "Oh, it's already here. This thought is already here. And there was resistance to it, but for a second there it was gone. This is simple. This is outside of the realm of how I usually relate to all appearances". And in those moments, the experience that tries to negotiate the presence of appearances and manage it falls away for a second. And what is also happening is that the body seems to be processing things more, like there's an increasing capacity to energetically feel through things and maybe cry or shake, etc. And there's just not much of a story surrounding these types of things anymore. I don't know if there is a connection, but I have an intuition that it has to do with the decrease in the stability/continuity of the augmentation process. re. "Re. what it is that's stopping and starting, it's so mysterious. As you might know it clarifies in a way that is too simple to cognitively understand as an objective experience." You describe things very well. It's just outside of the movement to encapsulate it into something, in a model of sorts.
@pointlessly.perfect Sounds clear man. You're like me, same type of intellectual inclination. I've found it to be a blessing and a curse 😂. Yeah send me an email 👍
Great pointing David! The separation of body and world is for me the most sticky aspect. My brain tells me that even though everything is interconnected, interdependent, and can be see as “one thing”, there’s also an obvious distinction between my body and the environment (or other people) as the body is the one with all the senses and feels like an antena perceiving the univers. So even though I recognize the interdependence of everything, I also still believe that the body serves as the most essential perceiving beacon. This makes it feel like there is still a center of experience, even if I cannot quite identify its source.
@@FreddySheinfeld I love the authenticity in the way you are investigating this. With this looking, it's a lot to do with a relaxation or a stopping of what is being added to make it seem as thought this is separate. Without the additions, this is already Nondual. The act of "looking out" to recognise or perceive something is a big part of how this is overlooked. The idea of being a perciever or a subject in the centre of experience, apart from the objective content. In that there is a subtle "moving out" from "here" in attention. This didn't really clarify for me until I "looked back" by relaxing the aperture of attention to bring it back towards the "where I'm looking for" point. When I realised that there was no point here from where I was looking and the visual sense was hollow in that way, then the function of perception could finally relax and the senses were revealed as only the sound/heard/felt, with no thing in the centre. Its a very subtle and quick perceptual overlay which ends up looking for it's self, which can be frustrating and confusing. But it's very much a relaxation of that effort to perceive and comprehend. If you relax into clear awareness of that function of subject/object perception, directly in the senses, it looses it's hypnotic influence. Sometimes it can be helpful to work with the sound and the physical sensation rather than the visual sense. There seems to already be less solidity in the sound which can be used to taste the same Nondual formlessness which all the other senses are made of. Once there is that taste, intuitively this becomes much more natural 🙂
@ Thank you, David, this is gold. I’m in that space right now, seeing how the source is hollow (or infinite?) and how there’s no inside or outside, just one “full 360 view.” I’d love to ask you a related question If you don't mind: Once you get distracted, let’s say by a conversation with another person, what pointer (if any) do you use to come back to this non-dual perception? Or at this point, do you not really “come out” of it, even in situations that require full attention? I’m curious because, depending on what way or what pointer I use, the perception will have a different flavor or “perfume.” For example, when using the “relax the view” method, I feel lots of spaciousness and relaxation. But when I focus on the “now” and how time is nonexistent, it feels very infinite, almost with a sense of deja vu, as if I have always been “here”. The method of going in-between (like Emerson teaches on his channel), for example, reveals how everything is made of concepts. So what I’m feeling is that I’m glancing or peeking into non-dual awareness, but it’s still colored or overlaid in different ways. It’s like the walls still contain bricks that hide the full picture depending on how I look, whereas someone fully awake sees the whole thing. It’s this common?
@FreddySheinfeld So as this deepens, there ends up being less of a distinction between the relative and the absolute, emptiness or nundual radiance and form, so it naturally integrates such that there is less of a separateness between states of being and it all turns into one big flow. For example, when the "spiritual path" ended for me in terms of insight, there was no longer a person here on a spiritual journey who could recognise and value different values or qualities of spiritual experiences, it just all opens up into the one seamless flow of phenomenon with no parts. There was also a lot of resistance to thoughts, thought patterns and identity/relativity for me for a long time in this which didn't really even out until no self simplified the whole thing out of a subtle story line. I guess you could call it the end of the seeker or experience connoisseur 😂 and the letting go into what is here in presence fully. Now, there are times where patterns return for example with close family etc, deep conditioning patterns which are still active at times. But there is no longer a real view held that it's anything other than presence and Nondual perfection, although there can be uncomfortable sensation, it no longer rocks me in a personal way and there is a deep peace underlying. Because there is no resistance to experience or behavior, no agent that has to manage it or figure it out, it can be blown out right now into infinite Nondual nature and the patterns return less and less, life becomes more spontaneous. What you are describing there sounds like you are touching into some very subtle and deep framing of perception and existence/deep identity. From experience, it sounds like what I describe as "emotional memory flavours" (I could be wrong), but those framings for me seemed distinct and having their own value, but underlying them there was this very subtle narrative sense of an ultimate subject or observer/story created by emotion tones and subtle views. It's hard to explain because there is no language for what that is, but it wasn't obvious util it fell away in its reality as not consistently here 😂 that was the most tragic part of this whole thing, realising that I never had an awakening really 😄
@@difficult_to_describe yes! That’s how it feels: like there’s still a sneaky layer of ego observing all this and pretending is not there 😂. Emotional memory flavor sounds about right too. Thanks man, all this is super helpful 🙏
Hi David- this is a perfect video for what I’m experiencing. A big piece of self seems to have fallen away and now there is nothing here to separate “me” from “out there”, as you described. In its place is pure non-dual, with abject terror to go along with it! When I meditate, it seems to be more intense. Did you find anything that helped with the terror for you? Seeing that it is the mind trying to return to a view is helpful. Did you meditate during this time? Thanks again David
I've had glimpses of a strange fabric behind all things kind of binding them into a fluid sheet of arisings with me part of it, nothing made any sense there, yet! Also during an eyes shut practise I felt a stopping of all experience with just awareness of breath in a void or nothingness, it happened several times with a weird felt abruptness, not sure how to process it or whether there's a need to, felt like maybe dissolution of self but over and over, is multiple occurrences a thing? First few scared me a little but I just surrendered into it. ❤
Yes 🙂 the augmentation losing it's suggested reality as the inherent "way it is". Don't try and comprehend it (unless you want to be uncomfortable) just disappear into it by stopping 👌It's the position or view as the experiencer that is sticky here. But the more you connect with tlwhat lies "beyond" the augmentation, the less that view will arise until it's clear it was never actually there. But it's only clear in the unknowable simplicity of what already is. This is where I made it difficult for myself with this challenge because I was constantly moving to contextualise the simplicity of this, which didn't need to happen, just did 😂
@@norfolkyeti unless part of you wants to feel terror for the buzz of it 😂 that was the case for me. Like messing with a cut even though it's sore for some reason lol.
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/n.gif)
Truth is immediate and spontaneous
@@maryrosemitchell9986 perfect ❤️
Here it seems the body notion arises more from the senses than thought. Maybe not -but when an instant gut reaction occurs (which is not controllable) it seems to immediately reinforce “bodyness” . noticing that it’s just an illusion of “me” and “my body” lessens the “grip” but then inquiry starts again. Sigh.. It’s tiresome.
I suggest doing something you enjoy that is very sensory in nature and forgetting about the inquiry thing as the main focus.
This is all about curiosity re. the mystery in a way that leads to the forgetting of identity and separation. Doing something for the sake of doing it alone and not in persuit of insight is powerful practice, because it bypasses the seaker function in mind. That way there isn't a resistance to experience, there is just immersion and enjoyment 🙂
It took me so long to get this, so long 😂 That this is all a out enjoying and being at peace with what is here, not looking for a better this ❤️
@@difficult_to_describe thank you. yes sensory and curiosity is it..
Thanks for answering David, your pointing starts up an investigation of my own experience.
I relate to your description of the augmentation, and the term itself resonates a lot. My experiences with dmt and mushrooms highlighted that added-on experience of spatiality, dimension, and object permanence.
It was clear that the substantiality of me and other things and people, the solidity of events occuring, the solidity of the content of thoughts, are not really existing.
And there was a constant restarting of that process. It was attempting to solidify things and events, but they were not sticking. Freefalling is a good term to use to describe this, but also what is it that's freefalling, that was also dropping and restarting.
Immense love and compassion was interspersed in that succession of start/restart. The suffering is based in delusion.
You pointing is top David, thanks so much.
Awesome man 🙂 Yeah there seem to be a lot of similarities with the psychedelic experiences, I actually found it to be a powerful tool but I am always hesitant to talk about it too much because there are a lot of pitfalls etc.. It so easily gets framed as a personal experience in time and isolated within that context, meaning the insight isn't really accessible outwith the "trip". When I recalled the insights from the experiences in immediate, present reality, everything changed 😄
Sounds clear to me. Do you have the experience of separateness/boundaries in the senses? Like, a multiplicity of solid and inherently existing objects in a world "out there" and an actually inherent center point from where you - the subject - is looking out at the world as if it were something in the world moving through it? Or has that all clarified as added by thought?
Re. what it is that's stopping and starting, it's so mysterious. As you might know it clarifies in a way that is too simple to cognitively understand as an objective experience. If I was to describe it I'd probably say it's something like a bundle of sensations with an illusory though function wrapping it all together in a context. It amazing that it can make something so powerfuly convincing from what is essentially thought. It bizarre, the thoughts and the sensations almost lose their definition in a way and blend something together, whilst at the same time ignoring other sensations. That's why I like the term "awakening", because it illustrates the strange dream like quality of identity 😄
@@difficult_to_describe This is a bit of a long one David. If you have any insight, I'm totally open to it, but no questions come up really.
𝘐𝘵 𝘴𝘰 𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘪𝘭𝘺 𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘴 𝘧𝘳𝘢𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵, 𝘮𝘦𝘢𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘪𝘯𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘪𝘴𝘯'𝘵 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘶𝘵𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 "𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘱".
Totally happened like that for me, but with time and multiple trips, it was like there was a new orientation that I discovered in the ordinary state of consciousness, in ongoing experience. I started being fascinated by sense experience in a way that was just utterly silent, effortless, and completely contrasting my usual way of functioning up until that moment.
𝘋𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘦𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴/𝘣𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘴? 𝘓𝘪𝘬𝘦, 𝘢 𝘮𝘶𝘭𝘵𝘪𝘱𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘪𝘵𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘰𝘭𝘪𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘦𝘹𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 "𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦" 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘤𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘺 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶 - 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵 - 𝘪𝘴 𝘭𝘰𝘰𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘪𝘧 𝘪𝘵 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘭𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘷𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘪𝘵? 𝘖𝘳 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘦𝘥 𝘣𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘵?
To oversimplify, it's half/half.
A particular insight that is vivid in my experience at this point is how I can sort of shift in and out of two different experiences-one that is the usual way of perceiving permanent objects inside and outside. The other way is how everything can be perceived as just close, no distance. But it's not like the objects are close, it's just experience close, you know? In that sense, the outside objects are not experienced as objects. They're just in.
And it feels completely effortless. As if perceiving objects out there involved a constant need to understand something about them. A constant mix of stories and solid objects in real time happening all around me, and I understand them and have to keep track of them.
So I'm kind of in between two worlds David.
This effortless orientation opened up for me and is available, thought it feels like it has slowly integrated such that there is not as much contrast anymore. And also maybe the augmentation mechanism regained some more ground in the meanwhile, but it definitely suffered a critical hit in a manner of speaking.
In a different vein, there is a lot of processing happening. The body has intense energetics on a regular basis. It gets charged up and I need to stop and really notice holding and feel everything. My sight becomes hazy as the body sense is taking center stage. I usually cry eventually, and I get surges of energy through the body, mainly through the legs, back and head.
It feels like resistance to intense sense experience has been the norm, and it feels intrinsically tied to the object permanence process of the mind and thoughts.
I have no idea, but this is happening and it feels like I can trust it. It's scary sometimes though, and that's a momentary position/perspective too.
What's clarifying more and more is that if it's here, it's already here, whatever it is. Whether it's a thought, an emotion, sensation, etc. And a movement away from what's already here is a diversion mechanism that's not necessary.
𝘙𝘦. 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘵𝘰𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘳𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨, 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘰 𝘮𝘺𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘰𝘶𝘴. 𝘈𝘴 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘮𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸 𝘪𝘵 𝘤𝘭𝘢𝘳𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘦𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘸𝘢𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘰𝘰 𝘴𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘰𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘦𝘳𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘰𝘣𝘫𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦. 𝘐𝘧 𝘐 𝘸𝘢𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘣𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘐'𝘥 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘣𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘺 𝘴𝘢𝘺 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘢 𝘣𝘶𝘯𝘥𝘭𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘢𝘯 𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘶𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘺 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘧𝘶𝘯𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘸𝘳𝘢𝘱𝘱𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘵 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘵𝘰𝘨𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵.
That's exactly right, David. There's no pin pointing anything about that recognition, and it can still happen that the mind tries to describe it in some way.
I can be here agreeing and seeing the point in how you're describing things, but it's not as if that's anything that can be held on to. It's such a funny thing really.
@@difficult_to_describe Yeah I wrote like a wall of text here and TH-cam deleted my comment or something because it's gone 🙃 Cheers David
@@difficult_to_describe re. talking about psychedelics, I'm really curious about more you have to say on the topic, but totally understandable that you shy away from the topic. It can totally get people mixed up in stories even more and who knows what other effects it can have neurologically for some. Maybe I'll send you an email if you have the time to chat about it.
re. "Do you have the experience of separateness/boundaries in the senses?"
-it's still the main mode, but over some time something started to clarify in the visual field, somewhat like you describe it was for you. After some mushroom trips, even when not having consumed the substance, this fascination with the seen remained, and feels like something that was continuously accessible, and feels part of my experience to this day.
I became fascinated with the visual in such a way that it felt like a part of my experience was reducing. I would describe it as the need to understand what I am seeing. That felt interest in understanding what is happening and what I am seeing can decrease. It feels like the visual is inside. It made whatever appeared so interesting and intimate. Boring old modern cars, sidewalks, trees, gray sky, all these typically uninteresting things, then a 180 degrees into feeling everything as the most valuable thing that there is.
So now I feel in between worlds.
The insight described above feels like it is slowly clarifying with thoughts and emotions as well. I have moments when I have a tiny insight that "Oh, it's already here. This thought is already here. And there was resistance to it, but for a second there it was gone. This is simple. This is outside of the realm of how I usually relate to all appearances". And in those moments, the experience that tries to negotiate the presence of appearances and manage it falls away for a second.
And what is also happening is that the body seems to be processing things more, like there's an increasing capacity to energetically feel through things and maybe cry or shake, etc. And there's just not much of a story surrounding these types of things anymore. I don't know if there is a connection, but I have an intuition that it has to do with the decrease in the stability/continuity of the augmentation process.
re. "Re. what it is that's stopping and starting, it's so mysterious. As you might know it clarifies in a way that is too simple to cognitively understand as an objective experience."
You describe things very well. It's just outside of the movement to encapsulate it into something, in a model of sorts.
@pointlessly.perfect Sounds clear man. You're like me, same type of intellectual inclination. I've found it to be a blessing and a curse 😂.
Yeah send me an email 👍
Great pointing David! The separation of body and world is for me the most sticky aspect. My brain tells me that even though everything is interconnected, interdependent, and can be see as “one thing”, there’s also an obvious distinction between my body and the environment (or other people) as the body is the one with all the senses and feels like an antena perceiving the univers. So even though I recognize the interdependence of everything, I also still believe that the body serves as the most essential perceiving beacon. This makes it feel like there is still a center of experience, even if I cannot quite identify its source.
@@FreddySheinfeld I love the authenticity in the way you are investigating this.
With this looking, it's a lot to do with a relaxation or a stopping of what is being added to make it seem as thought this is separate. Without the additions, this is already Nondual. The act of "looking out" to recognise or perceive something is a big part of how this is overlooked. The idea of being a perciever or a subject in the centre of experience, apart from the objective content. In that there is a subtle "moving out" from "here" in attention. This didn't really clarify for me until I "looked back" by relaxing the aperture of attention to bring it back towards the "where I'm looking for" point. When I realised that there was no point here from where I was looking and the visual sense was hollow in that way, then the function of perception could finally relax and the senses were revealed as only the sound/heard/felt, with no thing in the centre.
Its a very subtle and quick perceptual overlay which ends up looking for it's self, which can be frustrating and confusing. But it's very much a relaxation of that effort to perceive and comprehend. If you relax into clear awareness of that function of subject/object perception, directly in the senses, it looses it's hypnotic influence.
Sometimes it can be helpful to work with the sound and the physical sensation rather than the visual sense. There seems to already be less solidity in the sound which can be used to taste the same Nondual formlessness which all the other senses are made of. Once there is that taste, intuitively this becomes much more natural 🙂
@ Thank you, David, this is gold. I’m in that space right now, seeing how the source is hollow (or infinite?) and how there’s no inside or outside, just one “full 360 view.”
I’d love to ask you a related question
If you don't mind:
Once you get distracted, let’s say by a conversation with another person, what pointer (if any) do you use to come back to this non-dual perception? Or at this point, do you not really “come out” of it, even in situations that require full attention?
I’m curious because, depending on what way or what pointer I use, the perception will have a different flavor or “perfume.” For example, when using the “relax the view” method, I feel lots of spaciousness and relaxation. But when I focus on the “now” and how time is nonexistent, it feels very infinite, almost with a sense of deja vu, as if I have always been “here”. The method of going in-between (like Emerson teaches on his channel), for example, reveals how everything is made of concepts. So what I’m feeling is that I’m glancing or peeking into non-dual awareness, but it’s still colored or overlaid in different ways. It’s like the walls still contain bricks that hide the full picture depending on how I look, whereas someone fully awake sees the whole thing. It’s this common?
@FreddySheinfeld So as this deepens, there ends up being less of a distinction between the relative and the absolute, emptiness or nundual radiance and form, so it naturally integrates such that there is less of a separateness between states of being and it all turns into one big flow.
For example, when the "spiritual path" ended for me in terms of insight, there was no longer a person here on a spiritual journey who could recognise and value different values or qualities of spiritual experiences, it just all opens up into the one seamless flow of phenomenon with no parts. There was also a lot of resistance to thoughts, thought patterns and identity/relativity for me for a long time in this which didn't really even out until no self simplified the whole thing out of a subtle story line. I guess you could call it the end of the seeker or experience connoisseur 😂 and the letting go into what is here in presence fully.
Now, there are times where patterns return for example with close family etc, deep conditioning patterns which are still active at times. But there is no longer a real view held that it's anything other than presence and Nondual perfection, although there can be uncomfortable sensation, it no longer rocks me in a personal way and there is a deep peace underlying. Because there is no resistance to experience or behavior, no agent that has to manage it or figure it out, it can be blown out right now into infinite Nondual nature and the patterns return less and less, life becomes more spontaneous.
What you are describing there sounds like you are touching into some very subtle and deep framing of perception and existence/deep identity. From experience, it sounds like what I describe as "emotional memory flavours" (I could be wrong), but those framings for me seemed distinct and having their own value, but underlying them there was this very subtle narrative sense of an ultimate subject or observer/story created by emotion tones and subtle views. It's hard to explain because there is no language for what that is, but it wasn't obvious util it fell away in its reality as not consistently here 😂 that was the most tragic part of this whole thing, realising that I never had an awakening really 😄
@@difficult_to_describe yes! That’s how it feels: like there’s still a sneaky layer of ego observing all this and pretending is not there 😂. Emotional memory flavor sounds about right too.
Thanks man, all this is super helpful 🙏
@FreddySheinfeld awesome :)
Hi David- this is a perfect video for what I’m experiencing. A big piece of self seems to have fallen away and now there is nothing here to separate “me” from “out there”, as you described. In its place is pure non-dual, with abject terror to go along with it! When I meditate, it seems to be more intense. Did you find anything that helped with the terror for you? Seeing that it is the mind trying to return to a view is helpful. Did you meditate during this time? Thanks again David
Send me an email man and we can talk about it. You can make it easier on yourself for sure. I didn't and it wasn't fun for a while but it's all OK 🙂
@ what’s your email address?
I've had glimpses of a strange fabric behind all things kind of binding them into a fluid sheet of arisings with me part of it, nothing made any sense there, yet!
Also during an eyes shut practise I felt a stopping of all experience with just awareness of breath in a void or nothingness, it happened several times with a weird felt abruptness, not sure how to process it or whether there's a need to, felt like maybe dissolution of self but over and over, is multiple occurrences a thing?
First few scared me a little but I just surrendered into it.
❤
Yes 🙂 the augmentation losing it's suggested reality as the inherent "way it is". Don't try and comprehend it (unless you want to be uncomfortable) just disappear into it by stopping 👌It's the position or view as the experiencer that is sticky here. But the more you connect with tlwhat lies "beyond" the augmentation, the less that view will arise until it's clear it was never actually there. But it's only clear in the unknowable simplicity of what already is.
This is where I made it difficult for myself with this challenge because I was constantly moving to contextualise the simplicity of this, which didn't need to happen, just did 😂
@ be the path of least resistance 🕉️
@@norfolkyeti unless part of you wants to feel terror for the buzz of it 😂 that was the case for me. Like messing with a cut even though it's sore for some reason lol.
@@difficult_to_describe letting go in the face of terror couldn’t be more beautiful, the word paradox has some weight to it 😂
@norfolkyeti ❤️🙏