The nice thing about hockey in the NHL at least is they don't use penalty shots as tie-breakers in the play-offs, just endless over-time which is pretty exciting to watch
Why do people in the esports space have such horrible equipment for streaming? When I hear a player or someone from management come in and sound like they're under water it makes it hard to hear. Definitely worth giving them a 70 mic to bring on the go... Good episode, Peter Dun as a guest always provides great insight on the scene.
Peep peep peep chirp chirp "--aises an interesting question. Why aren't other teams putting in the effor--" chirp chirp peep peep. (love u peter ty for your work in the scene)
The Varus point is really true, definitely showed up outside of a lot of people's radar. I thought Varus would only be used into a Kalista pick, I'll give my flowers to GAM Sty1e for seeing the vision for it going into worlds.
Yea, Viper got relegated after Chovy left him and then went 2-16, let’s leave that part out. Also let’s leave out the part where this DRX team was inting the whole year
@@thelight3270 Oh ye lets also leave out the part where viper was on the worst team in lck with trash players and joins a decent not great team in LPL and jumps to best adc world and some even say best player in the world but ye interesting take there bud also its just facts he has played with 2 adcs and when they leave him they win worlds lol
The only g2 move i didnt like was targ out, seemed weird champ to bring up a rookie have him play decently then drop him for your previous veteran. Other moves i lowkey hate would be Unforgiven out of mad back for carrzy, after such a great year for unforgiven. and odo out of rogue such a dog move. maybe all 3 of those teams will get stronger but bruh. im sure theres many more but currently not coming to my mind.
Apparently Hans sama asked for Mikyx. In which case the move makes sense, time will tell if its the right one. Besides, they probably need a more vocal veteran after Jankos left.
Just on the Elyoya topic. How much is qualifying for worlds worth? Of course it looks bad if you just compare the numbers, but there is a high chance they don't qualify without him.
Danny „fulfilling his obligations“ by making worlds is such a low ambition mindset lmao. Don’t his teammates want to achieve something at worlds as well?
Not really - Mentally Danny was f***ed so for him ensuring his team made worlds and got to play there was a big thing. It’s not “low ambition” it’s all relative to how you feel within yourself.
You all have talked about it before, but going into these international events, we need to STOP TREATING THE REGIONS THE SAME. #1 KR #1 NA, if we seeded the teams better, we would have better events.
You can’t seed the teams better because they don’t play each other so how can you Seed them appropriately… if we went off peoples definitions of seeding worlds would Only be Korean and Chinese teams and no other region regardless of how those regions were performing because people automatically just assume that ALL Eastern teams are better than the west. You need to have a singular region or a tournament circuit instead of regional play to actually seed correctly. That’s the issue with “regions”.
@VARIETY CONTENT ENTERTAINMENT No you can’t BECAUSE THEY DONT PLAY EACH OTHER! Okay so by that logic all seeds at worlds should be LPL and LCK teams with no NA or EU teams ever because those regions are better. No wildcard teams. No NA teams. No EU teams. Just LPL and LCK because those regions are better. Do you see how stupid that logic is? Because that is what happens when teams don’t play each other, you are seeding on arbitrary reasons. If you want proper seeding you would have to have teams actually playing each other rather than you making up on the spot who you think is better. How do you determine who is no.1 - Say next year GenG lose only 1 series in LCK spring and summer and in LPL JDG do the same - How do you determine who is no.1 seed? What about 2nd through 10th when none of those teams have actually played each other? You can’t - You are just using Arbitrary bias to determine who you think is a better seed.
Really interesting point about normals... I almost exclusively play normals because I play with parts of a group of 8-9 people... We are all over the place in terms of skill level, I'm a 32 year old dyspraxic with bronze hands and a mid-gold brain, my wife has silver hands and iron brain, there's a plat guy that plays zed/kata mid, we have a teemo jungle main.... I didn't realise others would play ranked with a bullshit group like ours
I almost exclusively play normals with friends nowadays and just try random shit and have fun. Also IIRC there is a smurf detection algorithm for low level accounts in normals where it turbo increases ur matchmaking IF ur doing things like getting 8or9 cs per minute as a “new player”
Unfortunately it doesn’t really matter when the majority of new made accounts are Smurfs so new platings entering into the game immediately get slotted into games with Smurfs.
As I always think on the endless format-discussions: Why is there a group stage at all? I never understood why it was an ironclad assumption that one would have a group stage. Just do a big double elimination bracket from the start. Run the numbers; 16-team double elim best of 5 all the way is a similar number of games to the groups-into-single-elim thing. Sure, maybe adding more teams to the double elim bracket adds more games than play-ins does. Whatever. It's not that many. Just do a bracket from the start, then every game and match is meaningful. Viewers will care!
I could not agree more with your takes on these contract jail drama. The amount of people with zero knowledge of the working world commenting on this with childish thoughs is really frustrating. Those players had absolutely no problem signing these contracts giving them insane salaries, and suddenly when the bad part of these contracts comes into play they are not happy ? Maybe next time, they will settle for a less greedy contract with better insurance concerning buyouts. But hey, big money is big money.
I'm surprised to hear the praise of Beryl. I didn't see him execute his picks properly. The Bard missed every flash stun and didn't get a devastating ult or roam. His flash Lux Binding miss almost kicked DRX out of the finals single handedly. I don't think any amount of shotcalling can make up for being 4v5
?? Just the fact that he is able to pick Bard in that situation forces so many different situations and reactions. There doesnt need to be a devasting ult or a flash stun, the threat of either creates spacing and a certain level of respect in terms of positioning from the enemy. You wouldn't be able to say that if you could understand how big of an impact he has in voice coms. There is a reason koreans call him the League of Legends professor. A player doesnt switch teams and wins worlds with both teams without being one of the greatest players/minds in the game. Edit: Also, T1 picked Karma first because it would force a normal team's hand to pick Varus because the only good synergy support left open for Caitlyn was Karma. Beryl understanding the flow of how the games went (lose lane regardless of pick due to gap in laning prowess) and being able to pick Bard was huge. He 100% gave up lane to have more impact on the map. You might say he didnt have a devastating roam but the fact that there is a bard on the map roaming forces mid to play tighter and top to play more passive. Its the impact of a champion. LCS LEC arent even playing the same game.
@@johnkim2613 Many other people knew the Bard pick was the play for this draft, it wasn't secret Beryl only knowledge. He picked Bard and showed no proficiency on the champion, what you are saying about the mental forces Bard put into the game is proven wrong by T1 not giving any respect to the bard. No respect was warranted since the bard made no plays. His semi and finals performance was terrible. He needed to get carried by unbelievable Zeka and Kingen performances, the "You don't win if you aren't one of the greatest" doesn't hold up either because we watched Pyosik miss all but one crucial smite. Beryl only had negative impact in the last 2 series
very happy Peter Dun is off EG. had the suspicion he didn't appear on these shows not because he didn't want to, but because he couldn't. also probably is one of the reasons why thorin dislikes the EG management. EG felt so weird ever since it came back and slowly the masks are falling off. hoping this org is done for good soon, they are well on their way with how terribly teams are run (LoL was the big exception until the staffs contracts ran out a few days ago).
I love how the point Thorin is making at 24:00 he literally says there is "radio silence" ignoring the fact the person on twitter responded too him. It uncuts his points when he just lies
It's so clear that Thorin didn't watch the Jankos / Rekkles Videos / Clips. Cause Jankos himself said it3just business and was very adult about that. And on the Rekkles topic : Rekkles admitted that a lawyer warned him but he didn't listen. I still get there points but rhe didn't argue with what the players said themselves
I didn't enjoy the finals very much. Faker seemed to have a mad off-day and made horrible misplays that cost him and his team dearly. Both junglers made catastrophic blunders. The objective steals were so basic, only enabled by atrocious misplays. It felt like a series where the deciding factor was which team messed up worse. Meanwhile the semis with T1 vs JDG was absolutely incredible. So many proactive plays and crazy individual outplays. Action packed yet deliberate on both a macro and micro level. Two teams one upping one another. Fakers performance felt like a throwback to his prime. In contrast to finals it seemed like a series decided by who made the even greater plays. After it was over I didn't care for the underdog story anymore. I was just disappointed by what looked like really scrappy, sloppy finals after those semis. Felt for Keria though. Highlight plays for me. He had the spirit, tried his hardest but there is only so much a lone sup can do.
Every "great and memorable" series is dependent on the "better team" having off-days. The same can be said about countless series like TL vs IG, G2 vs RNG, etc. I can easily the same thing about the JDG series feeling terrible, considering that Yagao and Kanavi looked like they had "off-days" if you followed LPL. If you were to dissect each and every mistake for each team, every game and series will feel like shit. Find me one exciting game where both teams played flawlessly.
@@hamxz2 Hardly. Even if JDG played overall slightly off in semis, they still had amazing plays and few horrendous ones. There is also a difference between a team forcing the enemy into situations where they have to make a costly decision and just loads of unforced errors. Finals was a total scrap-fest. "What are they doing? Why? HOW?" galore. Gameplay wise a let down compared to the high octane, execution heavy semis.
@@CountCocofang Again, JDG made tons of unforced and uncharacteristic errors. You'd know if you watched LPL, which I know you don't. The reason why you think Faker had an off-day is simply because you're a fan of T1 or Faker himself. If you were a fan of DRX, you'd see that the mistakes were forced errors (similar to how you percieve T1 vs JDG)
C9 v Faze (ELEAGUE Major: Boston 2018); OG v PSG (TI 2018); Taipei Assassins (Worlds 2012); HungryBox v Armada (EVO 2016); Grrr... v H.O.T.-Forever (2000 Hanaro OSL); All of these are pretty big contenders for biggest eSports upsets of all time(thinking of Finals only). There are definetely some that I forgot.
@@gangrenousgoblingangrounou7583 What makes it even more insane compared to the TPA run is how DRX even got to worlds. There were no play-ins back then. TPA (now JTeam) were the strongest team out of the LMS (now part of PCS). But according to expectations, DRX hadn't even been expected to even make Worlds. Even after they played through LSB and KT, instead of directly entering group stage, they first had to play through playins (which, admittedly, they were supposed to get out of) and then play the regular groups -> quarters -> semis -> finals. I also personally find it hilarious that the PCS has more Worlds trophies than NA. (And I would also say EU since I discount Fanatic's season 1 win on the basis that League didn't really go global hence "worlds" until season 2. No fault of Fanatic's.)
the fans chanting his name scared him off. he looks anxious as can be, and frankly a bit frail. danny can't handle the weight of fans expectations is my unprofessional guess.
Thorin - G2 deliberately holding players in contracts is contract prison… The fact that they do it and then laugh at the players they are doing it too is why people don’t like them. G2 has locked multiple players in contract prison. Fnatic did not lock Nisqy in contract prison - Nisqy wanted to go back to C9, C9 and Fnatic were in negotiations and C9 were lowballing and wanted to pay less than they had paid a year before and then when Fnatic lowered the buyout to match and got the deal done - C9 pulled out and went with Fudge midlane. No Fnatic did not hold Nisqy in contract Prison. Yes G2 did hold players in contract prison and has categorically attempted to ruin players careers - Perkz, Mikyx, Jankos, Hjarnan, Wadid, etc. when you force riot to change contract rules because of something you did… that’s how you know they did something wrong. But Carlos is your friend so it makes sense you would defend him whilst he was publicly laughing at Perkz and saying “YOU CANT OUTPLAY ME B**CH hahahaha” and somehow still claim that he is actually a really nice person who respects his employees 👍.
Also the whole comment about the Cap on Buyouts - Won’t happen because teams like G2 don’t accept those terms… they just say “Sign it or don’t play, see you later” and the issue for those players is if they want to play and compete - They HAVE to accept. Even someone like Rekkles does not have that power - He wanted to win. G2 had the best chance to win. So G2 just refuse all terms until you sign the deal they put in front of you because they know they have other options. It’s weird to believe the players have the power to do anything to certain orgs. Rekkles going into a deal with Astralis = All the power. Rekkles going into a deal with G2 = No Power.
"Contract prison" would mean G2 refuses to sell him and just keep him while denying him the opportunity to go to another team, which Rekkless himself admitted was NOT the case. If anything, Reckless saying he worked to actively make G2 lose money on his selling is him admitting he basically sabotaged himself. Listening comprehension is not that hard if you're actually paying attention.
@@randomlatindude2119 ok but 90% of my comment still stands about him getting 6% of his salary while g2 benched him. Idk why youre nitpicking the smallest detail
@@DALESPEER2 Because the 6% salary is 100% Rekkless' fault (as he self admitted) AND was completely under his control to change. I didn't think I needed to clarify how stupid of a statement you're making after the person himself said it was his fault and that HE IGNORED every legal council that told him NOT to sign the contract. So instead of going over what basic accountability is, I corrected the blatant missinformation you're spewing. You either are completely ignorant on the entire situation and commented based on 2 TH-cam clips you saw, or you're intentionally ignoring these very public and obvious points, which means you're arguing in bad faith.
@@randomlatindude2119 ok so youre admitting to rekless making 6% of his salary. That was my point. Youre getting all heated when the main point of my comment was thorin saying hes making hundreds of thousands while benched. When was in reality being paid league minimum
You don't need double elim, but you need to have more than 10 series a YEAR on the international stage. We got 3 at MSI and 7 at worlds. That is all, what the fuck.
"not a prison if you get paid hundred thousands of dollars" - yeah except you dont if you would have listened to Rekkles, but obviously I didnt expect anything reasonable from Thorin when it comes to G2 and Ocelote lol and of course both of them suck off the big orgs while having no idea about power dynamics
Zeka mind controlled every mid laner to shit the bed and underperform. Chovy isn’t very good on non mages and the meta shift really hurt the boy. Got into his own head and just flopped hard. Faker also is not the best on assassins this year and you can definitely see it from start to finish in the worlds tournament. Sylas Akali matchups are not his cup of tea. Lich bane on Viktor is such a fucking bait and a sin. Zeka was just shitting on the mids this tourney. Kingen was actually incredible,
Hearing a American talking about football is hilarious. also the manager/coach is just as important as the star players. Look at what Tuchel did at Chelsea compared to how there doing know or Alex Ferguson at United winning the league in his last season with a very average squad.
noone dislikes a sport whatsoever if he/she is socially and physically intervowen with it. greetings to reward system. history wants the reward system to be confirmed. doesn´t care about the constructions of how the sports itself is being played. same applies for fandom. fuck that discussion. protecting soccer for the love of my youth. love ur content though.
They're nerds who played video games before it was cool. No flame, its true. Reading about a sport and talking about it will be very different than playing it and talking about it.
In the modern age it isn't accurate but if we are to steel man what he was trying to say it sounds more reasonable. If you are watching soccer it is easier to intuitively understand the game as a layman. Since it is as a game simpler to understand than other games; showcases of individual skill standout more. I believe Thoorin was specifically trying to say that it is a beautiful game.
@@EpicVideoMaster11 Soccer is specifically a tactical game compared to most teams games - scoring, especially in modern soccer, requires constant re-runs of deeply specific tactics where every player on the team switch the way they’re running, which positions they move into, which players they mark, how tightly, how they move the ball forward, and in some (very succesfull) strategies players are allowed very limited freedom from the overall team tactics. I mean for crying out loud one of the deepest tactical simulation engines on a PC is an attempt to program soccer tactics, and it is insanely complex. No matter how much you steelman, they simply don’t understand soccer or they wouldn’t be arguing that one of the most crucially tactical disciplines in modern sports has vast player agency over coach input. I can understand why he says it given that this interaction is so obvious in NFL while in soccer you only see that stuff once get deep into how the game is played today, but it’s still incorrect.
@@grone1778 I don't recall anyone saying soccer isn't deep or tactically complex he (Thoorin) said that on the surface it is the most simple of contemporary sports to understand on face value. I disagree with most of Monte's except the shootout point but that's not who I'm in favor of steelmannkng. I know soccer is complex I am not arguing that it isn't
Man Utd would love to not pay Cristiano Ronaldo 100% of his salary right now... Lebron James played in 56 of 82 games last season, the Lakers would love the idea of not paying him nothing for games he does not play. To pay less someone who is on the bench would mean his is not working 100%, which he probaly is just like any ethical professional would. The fact that you can be benched and receive 40%, 25% etc. at the same time the player could become the MVP and be stuck on a rookie salary is bonkers. Make a book titled: How to fuck an Athlete 101.
BeryL is the GOAT, it’s not that hard to see and accept that simple fact. Stop coping by downplaying him as a player just because you don’t like the fact that he is winning. I think most of this DRX roster will run it back.
I think they’ll never play on the same worlds level again. It was unique because they were the underdogs but now they’re have the pressure to perform. I think drx should just cash out and make bank from buyouts to lpl
You seem like a raving fan with foaming mouth that just throws the term "GOAT" around with absolutely no value and weight. Literally in these comments you called two different players "GOAT". Calm down.
From all the double elims I’ve seen they haven’t added a single thing to the finals however this finals is amazing. I’m against losers winning championships. If you lose in a tourney you should be out that’s literally the definition of a tourney. I’ll always want single elims. 9 times out of ten the finals(the would be finish in single elim) was better than the grand finals(the double elim game played after)
you need to watch more esports in general, loser bracket runs like G2 in spring are just amazing. The international 2018 which featured a rematch between psg-lgd vs OG was also amazing. In smash you also see this type of runs absolutely amazing
@@Diego-km2qr this is the last sport I’m watching and I’m about done here too, Kinda sad that all the double elims going in throughout esports and you come with 2 examples which proves my point that 90% of the time double elims do not make it better.
@@Diego-km2qr ok I looked them up. 0-6 LCs and 1-5 LEC. I don’t count either mad win because that entire season even regular season that team played from behind and had crazy comebacks that wasn’t format that was the team.
@@rockdalianninja1056 So basically you can't name any examples that favor your point of view, and your percentage is based on that there was 1 good worlds finals and now every worlds finals has been good? which is not true, most world finals are boring 3-0. Usually if you want to convince people you need to provide actual examples, not create percentages based on which finals you think were good, and in most cases is clear you don't even remember the ones you are talking about.
@@fmagistel are you sure you understand what "accolades" mean? I don't agree with the comment above but surely just in terms of accolades, Chovy isn't the GOAT off of one LCK trophy
@@fmagistel I dont think you want to base your argument on "accolades". Kuro has more accolades than Chovy - he has at least been in World's Finals. Your argument can lie in statistical performance *in lane* . Chovy is the GOAT ***laner*** - everything else, he is much lower at. Showmaker, Faker, Bdd, Xiaohu, Rookie, Crown, Scout - all of these players perform better in other areas. Chovy's entire advantage is being a great laner and hitting item break points early consistently, which can lead to advantageous situations in the mid-late game. He isnt a stellar teamfighter, or split pusher, or macro genius (except to find farm). His mechanics aren't the greatest. He is good at 1-narrow (but important) part of the game.
Player pulls out because he is having mental health issues, was receiving mountains of death threats from multiple regions, was getting attacked by fans in multiple regions as a 17 year old… yeah nothing wrong with that, he is just a wimp 🤦♂️.
@@PeoplePleaser578 why is he reading any of it? I don’t care what the problem is. He is playing video games for a living. Until spoiled entitled wimps quit making excuses for spoiled entitled wimps, NA will continue to be an embarrassment.
@@nosuitsgiven Ah yes when people threaten to turn up and kill him because he played Seraphine and not Jinx in a video game that’s not the person being completely insane. That player is just a wimp. It’s not just “playing video games” there is a difference between you play LoL on your PC at home in your boxers vs playing it on stage watched by 1000s of people. There is a difference between playing video games for fun and playing it for a living - That’s why that argument never makes sense. NA doesn’t suck because Danny has mental health issues that he needed to deal with. They suck because the culture as explained is garbage from management downwards.
@@nosuitsgiven You are Sadge. Somebody has mental health issues, steps back and says “I’m not in the best position to compete with my team” and your answer is “Shut up stop being a wimp, you loser” also Danny is a very small example - That’s not every single NA player, that’s literally one player. Yes it does and Korea is KNOWN for its toxic player environment and host of mental health issues for players… it’s literally known as one of the most toxic places to play and compete. They had to create an entire organisation to stop orgs from abusing players because they were mentally breaking players… your comment is Ill informed.
I love episodes with Peter Dun so much
Yes but his mic sucks and it's hard to listen to him
@@pxpj4n always been like that. constant squeaking in the background.
I love Peter Dun. He's so polite and knowledgeble. I also love how he kept apologising for the birds
Sometime a little too polite where he just keeps letting thorin talk over him :l
Super stoked to see the high level insight on the inner workings of the professional scene
we need a "thorin talks to tencent" cold open
Unforgettable episode, not to do with the content, Peter's just given me tinnitus!
Jokes aside love hearing him talk about league
As always Peter has been a great guest. Xtra point today with the bird noise everytime he tries to talk, that made for a very fun bit
I can listen to Thorn rant about anything for hours lol
The nice thing about hockey in the NHL at least is they don't use penalty shots as tie-breakers in the play-offs, just endless over-time which is pretty exciting to watch
I wish it was the case for football ( soccer), I hate the penalty shoots, it is based on so much luck
@@Atika55555 its part of the game.
@@fascistzoomer It does not have to be. It's a game that people made up for fun, with rules that can be changed if people don't like it.
@@solii01 No. It's literally what holds the fabric of existence together.
@@fascistzoomer yea I love penalty shootout cause u get to see who will come in clutch or choke and hit the crossbar. Champions are made underpressure
If you wanna know how coaching in NA is, remember that SSong got run out of the region for being an incompetent fraud.
For context lads, SSong won worlds with DRX this year.
And now he's won it all. He probably didn't tell people to communicate enough
He didn’t stroke enough ego’s
@@Dardobul that literally means nothing
@@echo5440 Whut? I would like to hear your reasoning for this :D
Why do people in the esports space have such horrible equipment for streaming? When I hear a player or someone from management come in and sound like they're under water it makes it hard to hear. Definitely worth giving them a 70 mic to bring on the go...
Good episode, Peter Dun as a guest always provides great insight on the scene.
In person watch party was really cool hope to see more
Peep peep peep chirp chirp "--aises an interesting question. Why aren't other teams putting in the effor--" chirp chirp peep peep. (love u peter ty for your work in the scene)
The Varus point is really true, definitely showed up outside of a lot of people's radar. I thought Varus would only be used into a Kalista pick, I'll give my flowers to GAM Sty1e for seeing the vision for it going into worlds.
I was baffled how Varus became the #1 priority pick out of NOWHERE
He was continually buffed 5 times or so. I was wondering why he didn't show up once the sivir zeri meta was gone.
It's been 2 years, I can still hear the birds in my head
I cant finish the video bcs of it, unbelievably annoying
watching it now makes so much sense with the Danny situation
Would love to see an episode about Perkz vs caps
There is one from 2021 go watch :D
CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP CHIRP
Every ADC that leaves chovy wins worlds that is sorta wild imo viper and deft..
Hard to avoid the Chokey narrative now. He really never got on the plane to the US
Ruler 👁 👄 👁
Yea, Viper got relegated after Chovy left him and then went 2-16, let’s leave that part out.
Also let’s leave out the part where this DRX team was inting the whole year
@@thelight3270 Oh ye lets also leave out the part where viper was on the worst team in lck with trash players and joins a decent not great team in LPL and jumps to best adc world and some even say best player in the world but ye interesting take there bud also its just facts he has played with 2 adcs and when they leave him they win worlds lol
@@lmktop3831 lethal Copium overdose
The only g2 move i didnt like was targ out, seemed weird champ to bring up a rookie have him play decently then drop him for your previous veteran. Other moves i lowkey hate would be Unforgiven out of mad back for carrzy, after such a great year for unforgiven. and odo out of rogue such a dog move. maybe all 3 of those teams will get stronger but bruh. im sure theres many more but currently not coming to my mind.
Double strongside g2, double weakside fnatic DX surely its gonna be a good year ;.))))
Apparently Hans sama asked for Mikyx. In which case the move makes sense, time will tell if its the right one. Besides, they probably need a more vocal veteran after Jankos left.
@@Serryy Mikyx has never been a vocal player, he is very quiet.
@@Gaunerchen Well, seems to have been vocal enough on XL
@@Serryy even a librarian sounds loud at a funeral dude
Great stuff as usual
Incredible episode
Just on the Elyoya topic. How much is qualifying for worlds worth? Of course it looks bad if you just compare the numbers, but there is a high chance they don't qualify without him.
any plans for vods of worlds streams to come out as highlights they were a lot of fun
March Madness style video series greatest esports upsets of all time. Except it's double elim 😃
But isn't that the call out for Chovy? That he (now almost) always, when it matters, doesn't do anything?
Danny „fulfilling his obligations“ by making worlds is such a low ambition mindset lmao. Don’t his teammates want to achieve something at worlds as well?
Not really - Mentally Danny was f***ed so for him ensuring his team made worlds and got to play there was a big thing.
It’s not “low ambition” it’s all relative to how you feel within yourself.
in NA ? You are simply not in touch with reality
ZEKA THE UNTHINKABLE DEMON KILLER
You all have talked about it before, but going into these international events, we need to STOP TREATING THE REGIONS THE SAME. #1 KR #1 NA, if we seeded the teams better, we would have better events.
You can’t seed the teams better because they don’t play each other so how can you Seed them appropriately… if we went off peoples definitions of seeding worlds would Only be Korean and Chinese teams and no other region regardless of how those regions were performing because people automatically just assume that ALL Eastern teams are better than the west.
You need to have a singular region or a tournament circuit instead of regional play to actually seed correctly. That’s the issue with “regions”.
@VARIETY CONTENT ENTERTAINMENT No you can’t BECAUSE THEY DONT PLAY EACH OTHER!
Okay so by that logic all seeds at worlds should be LPL and LCK teams with no NA or EU teams ever because those regions are better. No wildcard teams. No NA teams. No EU teams. Just LPL and LCK because those regions are better. Do you see how stupid that logic is? Because that is what happens when teams don’t play each other, you are seeding on arbitrary reasons.
If you want proper seeding you would have to have teams actually playing each other rather than you making up on the spot who you think is better. How do you determine who is no.1 - Say next year GenG lose only 1 series in LCK spring and summer and in LPL JDG do the same - How do you determine who is no.1 seed? What about 2nd through 10th when none of those teams have actually played each other? You can’t - You are just using Arbitrary bias to determine who you think is a better seed.
Really interesting point about normals... I almost exclusively play normals because I play with parts of a group of 8-9 people... We are all over the place in terms of skill level, I'm a 32 year old dyspraxic with bronze hands and a mid-gold brain, my wife has silver hands and iron brain, there's a plat guy that plays zed/kata mid, we have a teemo jungle main.... I didn't realise others would play ranked with a bullshit group like ours
Mister Peter Dun , you are a talker ... would say at least The Hound and me myself
I almost exclusively play normals with friends nowadays and just try random shit and have fun. Also IIRC there is a smurf detection algorithm for low level accounts in normals where it turbo increases ur matchmaking IF ur doing things like getting 8or9 cs per minute as a “new player”
Unfortunately it doesn’t really matter when the majority of new made accounts are Smurfs so new platings entering into the game immediately get slotted into games with Smurfs.
As I always think on the endless format-discussions: Why is there a group stage at all? I never understood why it was an ironclad assumption that one would have a group stage. Just do a big double elimination bracket from the start. Run the numbers; 16-team double elim best of 5 all the way is a similar number of games to the groups-into-single-elim thing. Sure, maybe adding more teams to the double elim bracket adds more games than play-ins does. Whatever. It's not that many. Just do a bracket from the start, then every game and match is meaningful. Viewers will care!
CLGs work showed at the end
i like to think that there is one drx superfan out there who's like see i knew would win but nobody believes them
I could not agree more with your takes on these contract jail drama. The amount of people with zero knowledge of the working world commenting on this with childish thoughs is really frustrating. Those players had absolutely no problem signing these contracts giving them insane salaries, and suddenly when the bad part of these contracts comes into play they are not happy ? Maybe next time, they will settle for a less greedy contract with better insurance concerning buyouts. But hey, big money is big money.
I'm surprised to hear the praise of Beryl. I didn't see him execute his picks properly. The Bard missed every flash stun and didn't get a devastating ult or roam. His flash Lux Binding miss almost kicked DRX out of the finals single handedly. I don't think any amount of shotcalling can make up for being 4v5
?? Just the fact that he is able to pick Bard in that situation forces so many different situations and reactions. There doesnt need to be a devasting ult or a flash stun, the threat of either creates spacing and a certain level of respect in terms of positioning from the enemy. You wouldn't be able to say that if you could understand how big of an impact he has in voice coms. There is a reason koreans call him the League of Legends professor. A player doesnt switch teams and wins worlds with both teams without being one of the greatest players/minds in the game.
Edit: Also, T1 picked Karma first because it would force a normal team's hand to pick Varus because the only good synergy support left open for Caitlyn was Karma. Beryl understanding the flow of how the games went (lose lane regardless of pick due to gap in laning prowess) and being able to pick Bard was huge. He 100% gave up lane to have more impact on the map. You might say he didnt have a devastating roam but the fact that there is a bard on the map roaming forces mid to play tighter and top to play more passive. Its the impact of a champion. LCS LEC arent even playing the same game.
pleb take. you just focus on mistake, every player have big mistakes, you have to look closer to see good play
@@djhumanoid There was not any good bard play to be found. The pleb take is default "But they are the pro so..."
I distinctly recall an ult onto Varus in the botside line bush that was quite important. Dont know what you were watching.
@@johnkim2613 Many other people knew the Bard pick was the play for this draft, it wasn't secret Beryl only knowledge. He picked Bard and showed no proficiency on the champion, what you are saying about the mental forces Bard put into the game is proven wrong by T1 not giving any respect to the bard. No respect was warranted since the bard made no plays.
His semi and finals performance was terrible. He needed to get carried by unbelievable Zeka and Kingen performances, the "You don't win if you aren't one of the greatest" doesn't hold up either because we watched Pyosik miss all but one crucial smite. Beryl only had negative impact in the last 2 series
@ Title: Do you want a comprehensive list?
It’s too far north!
@thoorin you need to make one for faker next year he needs it
The question which player styles on opponent the most would be defently Khan.
Can you please change the tags around the name to a different color besides red I can't see the youtube bar at the bottom since it's also red.
Thorin, please go to Tencent offices! 😎
I admit I did genuinely believe the Bengi carried Faker take for so long, plus with the narrative when Faker lost 2017 when Bengi didn't play
Beryl practiced mobile games prior to finals
very happy Peter Dun is off EG. had the suspicion he didn't appear on these shows not because he didn't want to, but because he couldn't.
also probably is one of the reasons why thorin dislikes the EG management. EG felt so weird ever since it came back and slowly the masks are falling off. hoping this org is done for good soon, they are well on their way with how terribly teams are run (LoL was the big exception until the staffs contracts ran out a few days ago).
Who gets the Dade award? Tian maybe?
AFL (Aussie football) has double elimination for the top 4 teams
Jesus Christ, Peter its 2022 no one is expecting a professional sound equipment, but get at least a headset...
41:13
I'd love to see Jankos and Perkz play together again
kek bo is gonna run over lec
@@Synday TRUE forgot about that guy
It sounds like a whistle is constantly being blown when Peter dun is talking
This
its the birds
I love how the point Thorin is making at 24:00 he literally says there is "radio silence" ignoring the fact the person on twitter responded too him. It uncuts his points when he just lies
It's so clear that Thorin didn't watch the Jankos / Rekkles Videos / Clips. Cause Jankos himself said it3just business and was very adult about that. And on the Rekkles topic : Rekkles admitted that a lawyer warned him but he didn't listen. I still get there points but rhe didn't argue with what the players said themselves
I didn't enjoy the finals very much.
Faker seemed to have a mad off-day and made horrible misplays that cost him and his team dearly. Both junglers made catastrophic blunders. The objective steals were so basic, only enabled by atrocious misplays. It felt like a series where the deciding factor was which team messed up worse.
Meanwhile the semis with T1 vs JDG was absolutely incredible. So many proactive plays and crazy individual outplays. Action packed yet deliberate on both a macro and micro level. Two teams one upping one another. Fakers performance felt like a throwback to his prime. In contrast to finals it seemed like a series decided by who made the even greater plays.
After it was over I didn't care for the underdog story anymore. I was just disappointed by what looked like really scrappy, sloppy finals after those semis. Felt for Keria though. Highlight plays for me. He had the spirit, tried his hardest but there is only so much a lone sup can do.
Every "great and memorable" series is dependent on the "better team" having off-days. The same can be said about countless series like TL vs IG, G2 vs RNG, etc. I can easily the same thing about the JDG series feeling terrible, considering that Yagao and Kanavi looked like they had "off-days" if you followed LPL. If you were to dissect each and every mistake for each team, every game and series will feel like shit.
Find me one exciting game where both teams played flawlessly.
@@hamxz2 Hardly. Even if JDG played overall slightly off in semis, they still had amazing plays and few horrendous ones. There is also a difference between a team forcing the enemy into situations where they have to make a costly decision and just loads of unforced errors. Finals was a total scrap-fest. "What are they doing? Why? HOW?" galore. Gameplay wise a let down compared to the high octane, execution heavy semis.
@@CountCocofang Again, JDG made tons of unforced and uncharacteristic errors. You'd know if you watched LPL, which I know you don't.
The reason why you think Faker had an off-day is simply because you're a fan of T1 or Faker himself. If you were a fan of DRX, you'd see that the mistakes were forced errors (similar to how you percieve T1 vs JDG)
i mean, i could see people paying 2.2 mil for elyoya. hem akes the midlaner good tbh :D
can't watch the Peter segments because the beeping gives me a headache :(
C9 v Faze (ELEAGUE Major: Boston 2018); OG v PSG (TI 2018); Taipei Assassins (Worlds 2012); HungryBox v Armada (EVO 2016); Grrr... v H.O.T.-Forever (2000 Hanaro OSL);
All of these are pretty big contenders for biggest eSports upsets of all time(thinking of Finals only).
There are definetely some that I forgot.
Chirpiest birds ever.
Fucking hell..
Haha, don’t think Peter Dun will be staying in America next year
1:15:20 you could say T1 should have won game 2
Sounds like a lot of LCS coaches are like Jerry Jones.
ForestWithin in PeterDun head
I would still put OG's run at TI8 above DRX's personally
Sure but drx is biggest miracle in LoL id honestly put it above TPA due to how many good teams they had to beat
@@gangrenousgoblingangrounou7583 What makes it even more insane compared to the TPA run is how DRX even got to worlds. There were no play-ins back then. TPA (now JTeam) were the strongest team out of the LMS (now part of PCS).
But according to expectations, DRX hadn't even been expected to even make Worlds. Even after they played through LSB and KT, instead of directly entering group stage, they first had to play through playins (which, admittedly, they were supposed to get out of) and then play the regular groups -> quarters -> semis -> finals.
I also personally find it hilarious that the PCS has more Worlds trophies than NA. (And I would also say EU since I discount Fanatic's season 1 win on the basis that League didn't really go global hence "worlds" until season 2. No fault of Fanatic's.)
peter dun needs a cat
*whistling intensifies*
the fans chanting his name scared him off. he looks anxious as can be, and frankly a bit frail. danny can't handle the weight of fans expectations is my unprofessional guess.
Thorin - G2 deliberately holding players in contracts is contract prison… The fact that they do it and then laugh at the players they are doing it too is why people don’t like them. G2 has locked multiple players in contract prison.
Fnatic did not lock Nisqy in contract prison - Nisqy wanted to go back to C9, C9 and Fnatic were in negotiations and C9 were lowballing and wanted to pay less than they had paid a year before and then when Fnatic lowered the buyout to match and got the deal done - C9 pulled out and went with Fudge midlane.
No Fnatic did not hold Nisqy in contract Prison.
Yes G2 did hold players in contract prison and has categorically attempted to ruin players careers - Perkz, Mikyx, Jankos, Hjarnan, Wadid, etc. when you force riot to change contract rules because of something you did… that’s how you know they did something wrong.
But Carlos is your friend so it makes sense you would defend him whilst he was publicly laughing at Perkz and saying “YOU CANT OUTPLAY ME B**CH hahahaha” and somehow still claim that he is actually a really nice person who respects his employees 👍.
Also the whole comment about the Cap on Buyouts - Won’t happen because teams like G2 don’t accept those terms… they just say “Sign it or don’t play, see you later” and the issue for those players is if they want to play and compete - They HAVE to accept.
Even someone like Rekkles does not have that power - He wanted to win. G2 had the best chance to win. So G2 just refuse all terms until you sign the deal they put in front of you because they know they have other options.
It’s weird to believe the players have the power to do anything to certain orgs. Rekkles going into a deal with Astralis = All the power. Rekkles going into a deal with G2 = No Power.
Wasnt rekkless getting paid like 6% of his salary while in contract prison. Whats thorin talking about him making hundreds of thousands?
"Contract prison" would mean G2 refuses to sell him and just keep him while denying him the opportunity to go to another team, which Rekkless himself admitted was NOT the case.
If anything, Reckless saying he worked to actively make G2 lose money on his selling is him admitting he basically sabotaged himself.
Listening comprehension is not that hard if you're actually paying attention.
@@randomlatindude2119 ok but 90% of my comment still stands about him getting 6% of his salary while g2 benched him. Idk why youre nitpicking the smallest detail
@@DALESPEER2 Because the 6% salary is 100% Rekkless' fault (as he self admitted) AND was completely under his control to change. I didn't think I needed to clarify how stupid of a statement you're making after the person himself said it was his fault and that HE IGNORED every legal council that told him NOT to sign the contract.
So instead of going over what basic accountability is, I corrected the blatant missinformation you're spewing.
You either are completely ignorant on the entire situation and commented based on 2 TH-cam clips you saw, or you're intentionally ignoring these very public and obvious points, which means you're arguing in bad faith.
@@randomlatindude2119 ok so youre admitting to rekless making 6% of his salary. That was my point. Youre getting all heated when the main point of my comment was thorin saying hes making hundreds of thousands while benched. When was in reality being paid league minimum
Take a deep breath dude, were on the same side
nice
Is it just me listening on a phone and finding those chirping birds(from Peter's background) unbearable?
I play normals soccer games all the time
the beeping sound is unbearable and makes it unwatchable. its a shame because I really am interested in this content everytime its released
sponsored by angry birds
There is a squeaky sound when the guest is speaking.
TELL THEM THORIN, THEY DONT FUCKING Q NORMALS MAN
Kiin
You don't need double elim, but you need to have more than 10 series a YEAR on the international stage.
We got 3 at MSI and 7 at worlds. That is all, what the fuck.
"not a prison if you get paid hundred thousands of dollars" - yeah except you dont if you would have listened to Rekkles, but obviously I didnt expect anything reasonable from Thorin when it comes to G2 and Ocelote
lol and of course both of them suck off the big orgs while having no idea about power dynamics
Zeka mind controlled every mid laner to shit the bed and underperform. Chovy isn’t very good on non mages and the meta shift really hurt the boy. Got into his own head and just flopped hard.
Faker also is not the best on assassins this year and you can definitely see it from start to finish in the worlds tournament. Sylas Akali matchups are not his cup of tea. Lich bane on Viktor is such a fucking bait and a sin.
Zeka was just shitting on the mids this tourney. Kingen was actually incredible,
He didn’t do anything - The Meta just massively favoured him because it was mostly mechanically focused champions rather than control mages.
Thorin just that u know most lol players play mostly normals...
Cant listen episode ruin by the birds.
These birds are full on trolls
Yea the noises on his mic is awful. Can’t listen to while tryna sleep lol, oh well
Hearing a American talking about football is hilarious. also the manager/coach is just as important as the star players. Look at what Tuchel did at Chelsea compared to how there doing know or Alex Ferguson at United winning the league in his last season with a very average squad.
Jesus Christ I couldn't keep listening through that god damned squeaking swinging noise.
noone dislikes a sport whatsoever if he/she is socially and physically intervowen with it. greetings to reward system. history wants the reward system to be confirmed. doesn´t care about the constructions of how the sports itself is being played. same applies for fandom. fuck that discussion. protecting soccer for the love of my youth. love ur content though.
Saying that football/soccer isn't about tactics and is driven by player artistry... you guys need to stick to LoL, lol.
They're nerds who played video games before it was cool. No flame, its true. Reading about a sport and talking about it will be very different than playing it and talking about it.
@@nc_aravindan Both Thorin and Monte seem very knowledgeable about NFL and basket, tbh. Just hearing them talk about football makes my head asplode
In the modern age it isn't accurate but if we are to steel man what he was trying to say it sounds more reasonable. If you are watching soccer it is easier to intuitively understand the game as a layman. Since it is as a game simpler to understand than other games; showcases of individual skill standout more. I believe Thoorin was specifically trying to say that it is a beautiful game.
@@EpicVideoMaster11 Soccer is specifically a tactical game compared to most teams games - scoring, especially in modern soccer, requires constant re-runs of deeply specific tactics where every player on the team switch the way they’re running, which positions they move into, which players they mark, how tightly, how they move the ball forward, and in some (very succesfull) strategies players are allowed very limited freedom from the overall team tactics. I mean for crying out loud one of the deepest tactical simulation engines on a PC is an attempt to program soccer tactics, and it is insanely complex. No matter how much you steelman, they simply don’t understand soccer or they wouldn’t be arguing that one of the most crucially tactical disciplines in modern sports has vast player agency over coach input.
I can understand why he says it given that this interaction is so obvious in NFL while in soccer you only see that stuff once get deep into how the game is played today, but it’s still incorrect.
@@grone1778
I don't recall anyone saying soccer isn't deep or tactically complex he (Thoorin) said that on the surface it is the most simple of contemporary sports to understand on face value. I disagree with most of Monte's except the shootout point but that's not who I'm in favor of steelmannkng. I know soccer is complex I am not arguing that it isn't
Peter is so bad at speaking lol
Man Utd would love to not pay Cristiano Ronaldo 100% of his salary right now... Lebron James played in 56 of 82 games last season, the Lakers would love the idea of not paying him nothing for games he does not play.
To pay less someone who is on the bench would mean his is not working 100%, which he probaly is just like any ethical professional would.
The fact that you can be benched and receive 40%, 25% etc. at the same time the player could become the MVP and be stuck on a rookie salary is bonkers.
Make a book titled: How to fuck an Athlete 101.
BeryL is the GOAT, it’s not that hard to see and accept that simple fact. Stop coping by downplaying him as a player just because you don’t like the fact that he is winning.
I think most of this DRX roster will run it back.
I think they’ll never play on the same worlds level again. It was unique because they were the underdogs but now they’re have the pressure to perform. I think drx should just cash out and make bank from buyouts to lpl
your takes on every channel are terrible
You seem like a raving fan with foaming mouth that just throws the term "GOAT" around with absolutely no value and weight. Literally in these comments you called two different players "GOAT". Calm down.
From all the double elims I’ve seen they haven’t added a single thing to the finals however this finals is amazing. I’m against losers winning championships. If you lose in a tourney you should be out that’s literally the definition of a tourney. I’ll always want single elims. 9 times out of ten the finals(the would be finish in single elim) was better than the grand finals(the double elim game played after)
you need to watch more esports in general, loser bracket runs like G2 in spring are just amazing. The international 2018 which featured a rematch between psg-lgd vs OG was also amazing. In smash you also see this type of runs absolutely amazing
@@Diego-km2qr this is the last sport I’m watching and I’m about done here too, Kinda sad that all the double elims going in throughout esports and you come with 2 examples which proves my point that 90% of the time double elims do not make it better.
@@rockdalianninja1056 o please, are you of those people that talk about percentages but never give actual examples? Nvm then
@@Diego-km2qr ok I looked them up. 0-6 LCs and 1-5 LEC. I don’t count either mad win because that entire season even regular season that team played from behind and had crazy comebacks that wasn’t format that was the team.
@@rockdalianninja1056 So basically you can't name any examples that favor your point of view, and your percentage is based on that there was 1 good worlds finals and now every worlds finals has been good? which is not true, most world finals are boring 3-0. Usually if you want to convince people you need to provide actual examples, not create percentages based on which finals you think were good, and in most cases is clear you don't even remember the ones you are talking about.
Says NA is toxic. But then won't talk about the toxicity of Korea. LOL
1:51:47 peter literally talked about it by implying that if NA is this bad, then Korea is "on another level"
Chovy is the GOAT of lol. 1 day of games doesn’t change 5 years straight of being the GOAT
The GOAT of choking in important games?
@@benjamingnanaarasu5674 Another who doesn't know what Goat means. Give me someone with higher accolades and cred, I'll wait.
@@fmagistel are you sure you understand what "accolades" mean? I don't agree with the comment above but surely just in terms of accolades, Chovy isn't the GOAT off of one LCK trophy
@@fmagistel I dont think you want to base your argument on "accolades". Kuro has more accolades than Chovy - he has at least been in World's Finals.
Your argument can lie in statistical performance *in lane* . Chovy is the GOAT ***laner*** - everything else, he is much lower at. Showmaker, Faker, Bdd, Xiaohu, Rookie, Crown, Scout - all of these players perform better in other areas. Chovy's entire advantage is being a great laner and hitting item break points early consistently, which can lead to advantageous situations in the mid-late game. He isnt a stellar teamfighter, or split pusher, or macro genius (except to find farm). His mechanics aren't the greatest. He is good at 1-narrow (but important) part of the game.
The Goat of losing winning
Games
I keep forgetting y'all go by "Last Free Nation" now lmfaoo so cringe. On some Elon shit.
And a skull logo.. i thought they got sponsored by skullcandy or something.
@@nc_aravindan Lol ikr. Its like they got a sponsor deal from 2014 Tillys
First world problems with making excuses for Danny. Biggest problem with NA is all the excuses everyone makes.
Player pulls out because he is having mental health issues, was receiving mountains of death threats from multiple regions, was getting attacked by fans in multiple regions as a 17 year old… yeah nothing wrong with that, he is just a wimp 🤦♂️.
@@PeoplePleaser578 why is he reading any of it? I don’t care what the problem is. He is playing video games for a living. Until spoiled entitled wimps quit making excuses for spoiled entitled wimps, NA will continue to be an embarrassment.
@@nosuitsgiven Ah yes when people threaten to turn up and kill him because he played Seraphine and not Jinx in a video game that’s not the person being completely insane. That player is just a wimp.
It’s not just “playing video games” there is a difference between you play LoL on your PC at home in your boxers vs playing it on stage watched by 1000s of people. There is a difference between playing video games for fun and playing it for a living - That’s why that argument never makes sense.
NA doesn’t suck because Danny has mental health issues that he needed to deal with. They suck because the culture as explained is garbage from management downwards.
@@PeoplePleaser578 yea including all the babying and excuse making people like you make for the players. You don’t think this shit happens in Korea?
@@nosuitsgiven You are Sadge. Somebody has mental health issues, steps back and says “I’m not in the best position to compete with my team” and your answer is “Shut up stop being a wimp, you loser” also Danny is a very small example - That’s not every single NA player, that’s literally one player.
Yes it does and Korea is KNOWN for its toxic player environment and host of mental health issues for players… it’s literally known as one of the most toxic places to play and compete. They had to create an entire organisation to stop orgs from abusing players because they were mentally breaking players… your comment is Ill informed.