It would be nice to have this info, but I can see why they left it out. This game already displays a ton of information that can be a bit overwhelming for newer players so it is necessary to limit what is shown to keep them interested and not discouraged or tired of reading. BUT, that doesn't explain why there's no option for advanced tooltips that would display such information, or why the in game encyclopedia doesn't explain it.
The game is already stats overload for someone trying to get into it. Especially including the magic and how all the spells work. It's understandable that the developers had to draw the line somewhere.
Dude, quality production here. The editing is legit top notch and high level work. Thanks for your time and energy putting these together and help baddies like me get better.
@@Zerkovich I agree, top notch indeed! I am curious though, where did you come by this information? Do you find it in the game files themselves or some other way?
He's doing excellent work indeed. I have 470 hours in Warhammer 2 alone and still never really knew this... thought it's random lack of animations or something.
A bodyguard unit would allow the Lord a unit to run through to escape things or to deter the enemy from pursuing the Lord. But yeah, be a bit counter productive for the Lord to tank for the bodyguard haha.
@@Zerkovich There are basically endless ways you can strategize in this game... it might work having lords tank damage dealing infantry against larger units or other lords - against real planet devoures like mammoths tough I don't think it would make a difference cause they just stomp through infantry like it's not even there lmao.
@@sovex9331 It does have interesting implications for anti large infantry though - as if a mammoth or something gets totally surrounded by a unit of particularly high damage anti large infantry (eshin triads spring to mind) but is literally incapable of dealing damage to them for the 100 melee defence assassin in the middle of them - then it might find itself in a world of inefficiency.
@@Zerkovich you sir are probably more responsible for me enjoying this game and watching twitch more than anyone else thanks again. Btw does this mean there's no friendly fire for splash attacks? It's just a visual when your own units go flying?
@@michaeldallen234 Even knowing that it's sarcasm, I still grr'd at this comment. Then I laughed. Then I realised that Lionheart literally only teaches you to cheese the AI and that if you fight another player the way he recommends, you'd lose horrendously in an even matchup. Well played good sir.
Let me add that the start isnt entirely true. When he says they all have their little health bar. I think its still a whole because i noticed the health always dropped significantly before units actually start to die. (half health and almost all units still) Even when its a melee vs melee fight where units dont mix up much and all dmg comes at the frontline. I could be wrong, theres really so much hidden. Its just what i experienced in 1000 hours gameplay
During these slow mo fights comes out how icreadibly unique and well made the animations are in this game, like the leviathan fighting at the end is pure joy to watch. Also, the explanation and editing in your video is really awesome, thanks for all the great info.
So, RoR with the trait "guardian" are actually relevant... Since the lord/heroe who is fighting alongside them will soak up the damage, they'll be fine, and in turn give him Physical resist to tank the damage, all the while dealing their own damage to whatever they're fighting. Of course, that only applies if fighting a unit with splash damage... Did I get it right ?
@@alexdsp9468 IIRC some heavier ranged units (as well as artillery) do have a short of an AoE, a column that starts at first unit hit and ends at last unit hit (or the ground) but IIRC penetration is its own mechanic with its own quirks
@@alexdsp9468 some ranged units do have aoe by the fact some are explosive like bomb throwers or just have explosive damage in their attacks and a special case for sisters of avelorn having aoe arrows due to lower entity unit count per banner/unit card and anti infantry artillery will most certainly have aoe
This is a goddamn quality video if I've ever seen one, almost every bit of info given I didnt know. And I have over 800 hours and have watched a lot of vids on this game. Good stuff.
You can also get them from the Total War Warhammer 2 Assembly Kit modding tool that comes with the game. If you feel like looking really hard for ALL the stats.
I recommend "Rusted packed files manager", much lighter, faster and easier to use than warhammer assembly kit. You can open data.pack to see almost everything there.
When discussing multiple attack zones Nakai's charge attack would be a good example. He charges through his target hitting 3 different zones with his swings. It would have been a good visual for that explanation.
This information would make the skaven council guard stormvermin actually really really good. Like they give buffs to the Lord and are saved by the Lord at the same time during a brawl. And lol I didn't knew ikkit explodes when he dies! He never died in my skryre campaigns, that's how op he is
If you have time to wait 5 rounds after a hard battle you can nuke him on purpose by casting spells at low health with his ability that gives unbreakable after every spell :D
Hm, now i have question. What dmg has friendly fire, and what not? Everything missile and some spells definitely deal dmg to my own units, but i thought splash attacks of my lord, while fighting in a clump of my infantry, too.
No melee attacks, including splash attacks, do friendly fire damage. They can still knock over your troops temporarily stunning them, but it will not do any damage.
Best way to see that in action is with poison : poison projectile hitting the brawl and your unit gets poisoned as well = friendly fire. poison on melee attack ? Go wild ! you can attack anyone and anything already engaged with your own units and these guy will never get poisoned = no FF ;7
@Jonas Reith great question. I'm not sure but I don't think I've seen a monster knock anyone off a wall, friend or foe. The only times I can remember seeing enemies knocked off the wall are from artillery fire which is capable of friendly fire.
Sounds like the upshot is: If your troops were just there as inconvenient meat, then it's fine; it doesn't matter how many gobbos a troll shoves around, because whether or not the gobbos poke some people with their pointy sticks is irrelevant (in fact, if it's shuffling some of the goblins to the back of the line, it could actually be IMPROVING the mob's defensive ability). But if Thorgrim's bellowing knocks over some Peak Gate Guard, the Dwarfs are going to be missing out on precious hammer time.
Nice and informative as always. Very surprised by that 'lords absorb damage' detail, never would have suspected it otherwise. Btw, the splash does provide more than visual flare. It can be a god send for large units stick in spears, letting them blast their way out.
This is probably one of your best informative videos. I've always looked at the patch notes for updates and wondered how the devs could feasibly make those small adjustments to units, like giving them +2 health. Great video that really shows the more bits-and-pieces mechanics of the game.
Not sure why he dident mention what the only infantry unit that does splash attack is. Assuming they havent changed it or added any new that unit would be Black orcs that has a maximum splash attack target of 2 assuming its fighting infantry.
Bonuses just add MA and WS when fighting the appropriate target. So it'll just provide slightly better damage to split, and more chance of hits landing.
@@Zerkovich Something I have not found out yet is bonuses for ranged attacks. In melee they increase MA and WS so does that mean in ranged attacks they'd increase Missle Damage and Marksmanship/Accuracy bonus or just Damage only? All I can find is that they work "exactly the same" but ranged accuracy is different and much more complicated than melee hit
Great video ! I have one quick question tho, what about the "bonus vs infantry" dmg ? I've always found it a bit ridiculous that a lord with 450 dmg get a +12 against infantry, but does that mean that the 12 bonus damage is applied to ALL models hit instead of being shared ? Thanks !
The depth of this game will never cease to astonish me, this is GOOD WORK CA. Take your time for TWW3 and deliver a nice final product as always, not some half finished games like almost all others studios release those days. Good job as always Mr Zerkovich. take care, stay safe.
Is their a website that gives you the hidden information about individual units or characters such as this splash attack information. Yet again a great video Zerkovich thanks and keeps it up.
I'm not sure if this necessarily has it, but it does have a lot of hidden information. twwstats.com/abilities I think those max splash values are visible from modding tools with warhammer though.
Can you talk about how some unit's animations influence their survivability ? It's something I witnessed particularly well with the Eagle and Phenix units : when they fight Infantry, or single-large monsters, they often do better than I expected because their attack animations place them periodically out of melee reach of their opponent, making them last longer than their stats just show. I've always wondered if it was actually a thing, or if my game is just buggy so I'd be really glad if you could help me find out how it truly is ^^
Going by the nature of those units, it is actualy a thing. More people have experienced this, and it also explaines why great Eagles have crappy stats for a high tier unit: they outlast their stats.
it's entirely a thing. The king of that sort of thing is the Tomb scorpion, whose anti-infantry prowess comes for a very large part from its animations, not only in the fact that, as he's jumping and diving, it'll protect him a lot of the time, but also are heavily disruptive, allowing him not to be swamped down, and escape situations he doesn't want to be in. Animations are a big part of unit survivability, but also efficiency, because they also condition the way you'll hit. High melee attack can be less efficient if the unit has shitty animations that connect rarely. That's actually something I really love in TW, the fact that there is so much hidden stats, but also things that cannot even be quantified in stats means that you really have to learn the units, and you cannot judge them just from their tooltip. Though eagles are pretty useless, imo, especially in campaign.
@@gaslar3328 I do manage to get some work done with them in the campaign, but it's better to have them as a mount to a hero (much better stats than the lone version).
@@RoulicisThe yeah, obviously, as a mount for a noble, it's valid, but there is no reason to recruit eagles, and no reason to build the grove building.
It really bugs me how CA keeps these secrets that actually has an impact. Like the yari ahigaru in Shogun 2: useless stats but with the Yari Wall ability they become so powerful they not only disintergrate yari samurai but can even make katana samurai sweat..... Lets hope in WH3 this all changes AND comes with an in-game encyclopedia that explains all things and lets you compare units..... Nice & informative video, as always :D
@@RoulicisThe Because l don't wanna do in-game testing when there's already lots of meta to break down (unit & tier comparison etc), and as in my example in Shogun 2, it merely says yari wall raises def, not that it makes them near invincible.
@@EdgeOfEnding In Total War, all pike units have always been really strong, so when I used their formation for the first time and saw it was a typical "pike wall" I already had a good idea how effective it would be. Rome 1, Medieval 2, Rome 2, Attila, etc... In every total war game, pike units have been devastating, and charging them up-front isn't a good idea. The game doesn't tell you this, but seriously : when you see your dudes pointing out a wall of 4-meters long pikes in front of them, it kinda gives out a bunch of warnings man ^^
I think there's a point where there is too much information. Some people would love all the info but a lot would probably be put off trying to learn and understand it all.
@@Zerkovich But you yourself pointed out the usefulness of understanding splash attacks, how a lord could be more designed for crowd control or bigger entities. l'm not requesting everything, but l often come across info quite useful because of e.g reddit or your vids, i.e by pure chance.
Very informative, with the right amount of digging up the stats and a building a cheat sheet you can turn your best weapons into tactical nukes for the most part.
Ok so this is awesome, but how do you find out these hidden stats in the first place, I'd like a video on how to find these statistics for myself so I can look them up again on the fly.
Are you really sure about the damage division part though? I did a test, Hierotitan with 500 pure AP damage (no armor negation) charging into dismounted Blood Knights with 20 models (about 500HP for each). Guess what happened? They took 3502 damage overall, which suggests that it's actually 500 damage dealt for every hit target in the splash attack.
HI, is there anyway (a list or something) to know the splash attack of every unit that has it? It would UNIQUE and EXTREMELY USEFUL a mod saying the Max amount of targets in the splash attack of a unit and the attack speed, both as stats.
So, if they want to buff foot lords to make them more competitive, couldn't they remove the high priority label put on them so they are more survivable in infantry blobs and can't be cycle charged to death?
Imagine a lord surrounded by skavenslaves, zombies or peasants. After the whole unit dies, a second one is summoned. The lord is invincible. Thats not balanced anymore. Also not realistic. When you are surrounded by tiny enemies, and you get one superblow and a million tiny taps, you WILL find out who hit that hard (probably the guy three times as big as the others) and take him out first.
Imagine a mounted lord, using its superior mobility to run away from the foot lord. Isn't he invincible from the footlord's perspective because he can't catch him? Also the summoned units have a time limit and a cap to how many times you can cast it.
@@jordankrumins8745 running away as a melee lord means your enemy is just as safe, so no benefit for either during combat itself. But a lord on foot surrounded by fodder will not take damage if he is not focussed in melee, while the enemy lord/hero/monster IS taking damage. And English is not my native tongue, i meant summoning as in: "Oi, you lot, git over 'ere!!!" Then the lord on foot can max his damage output, and the one swamped will waste most of his weapon strength on overkill, hitting 40hp mobs with 100hp hits, and hope he survives untill the enemy runs out of peasants.
And what happens when a splash attack unit that can only splash attack "small" types, e.g. infantry, swings and there are a 'combination' of infantry and large in the swipe area? Take Skinwolves, what happens if there are two enemy infantry and one cavalry entity from a cav-unit right infront of it's attack? Will the skinwolf only deal single-entity damage against the cavalry and ignore the swordsmen? Or is it based on the skinwolf's random targetting? If the skinwolf decides to target one of the two infantry, those two will have splash attack divided over them and the cavalry will be completely ignored? Likewise, if it attacks the cavalry unit, the infantry is ignored? Thanks in advance
Grimgor' iz dah BEST. Humies' r stupid but dis vid iz pretti gud so I'll letz you off dis TIME unless ya a stinkin' GOBBO! Zerking bugger... I LUV KILLIN' DAH ELVES WITH DAH POINTY EARS. WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
How come you didn't mention armor in your math? Armor reduces non-AP damage by 50-100% of its value, so a unit with 70 armor can reduce non-AP damage by 35-70%. The high elf spearmen have 30 armor, so non-AP damage done to them would be reduced by 15-30% in your example.
Question! If a unit with splash has a bonus v infantry of 10 hits six different small entities, does each entity hit take the bonus 10 damage or does it get split evenly between them?
I have tested also with TWWSTAST myself over past few days, was waiting for WS bug to be fixed and it's done today. I wanna talk about Hex Wraiths and Cairn Wraiths and perhaps reason why they feel so weak Cairn Wraiths got Splash Attack of 3 targets and medium area, Attack Speed 4.3. Hex Wraiths got no splash attack at all, and 4.6 speed Could this affect their poor performance? Doomfire Warlocks got also 4.3 speed and splash attack of 3 and medium size also. One more thing new Black Orc Big Boss has 10 MAX Targets that is insane with his 390 WS.
It does more than add 'visual flare'. He can only Injure 6 of the 15 he hits... but he DISPLACES 15 Units, which means 15 people are not hitting HIM at that time. Which is a HUGE ability, the ability to limit the incoming damage through displacement.
Settra on his chariot has a splash attack max of 4 vs up to very large units... is there a single multi model very large unit in this game? Also is target priority concerning multiple single entity/ large+ models determined by the target of my original attack command/ the attacking units current target? As in, chariot Settra is fighting mammoth wulfrik while surrounded by berserkers and skin wolf werekin. I target wulfrik, but the attack animations splash also involves all other units. WIth a max. size of very large but now fighting 2 single entities, lord and hero, who gets damaged??? I am confusion... or is this just a chariot thing again D: ?
How does bonus vs damage count in splash attacks? Especially if there's two different sized units blobbed up? Like Trolls or horses surrounded by infantry. (Assuming the unit making the attack has a splash damage threshold of "Large" or "medium" as needed so it is splashing over both blobbed units.
It's not explained here. So how do we know which which unit can do a max number splash damage to? 4, 5 or 6? I only know duelist cause lesser units to take damage, dragons in general probably cause a max of 8 units splash damage. What about the rest?
The base weapon damage cant be pure rng like you say. Or that makes armour pointless. If you have 100 AP damage to something with 1 armour it does 100 damage. If you damage something with 150 armour you still do 100 damage. But with a dice roll like you say for base weapon damage say you have 100 base weapon strength and you attack someone with 1 armour its a random roll between 1 and 100, and if you attack someone with 150 armour its still a pure dice roll between 1 and 100. That would make no sense to me.
If a unit has an enchanted weapon with Magic attack on their melee and ranged, is it ALWAYS counted as magic? For example would it be weaker against dwarfs even though it's still a physical sword just with an aura? Or does it choose the lesser resistance? (Though i could see ethereal units always counting as magic)
So in Tabletop terms: you culd say Grimmgore for example has 6 Attacks per Round of Combat, and if he hits or not is a random chance. I actually like that. :)
... And then there's the mammoths which have this weird invisible trample damage mechanic that I couldn't find anything about in the .pack files! Amazing video though, thanks so much - I'd been ruminating on this for a long time.
Wow this explains so much. Sometimes I've been surprised by my Wight King or something suddenly being really low on health, but thanks to this I now know that it was probably absorbing the damage for some shitty skeletons lol.
I kinda think that needs reworked. If a splash attack character hits targets and makes them fly back (and you can see BLOOD) they SHOULD take damage/casualties.
I forgot to mention that something useful you may have included is WHERE we can find these hidden numbers. Could you provide a link to a source, please?
There was a comment made by Drew Breckner below when someone asked how Zerkovich got the stats in the first place - twwstats.com/units?right=tww2_beta; there is a vast amount of useful information there as well so give it a view if you're interested in the details. Please upvote this (or better yet, their comment as the original one) so that people can find it easier. On a side note, I am literally bewildered by the quality of your videos; 10/10 all around.
Won't splash attacks do some friendly damage as well? I had some experience where I was using Karl Franz and he was fighting a lord while being surrounded by friendly swordsmen. One splash attack from KF knocked some friendlies around and hurt the lord but I saw that there was some damage to the friendlies.
Question about hero attack talents and splash. I've always felt that talents that add like 6 damage to a lord who hits for 500 was increadibly lackluster. But if its 6 damage for each target hit, it'd make such talents much more appealing. Do you know if this is how such damage modifiers work? or is it just the base damage split over the targets?
Underkilling is a problem against healing mechanics, and when the enemy is going to escape, or when they are able to get more of their damage out, but there are times it is better for you. If you are going to continue hitting the unit with other AoE or inaccurate fire having more targets to hit can up how fast you do damage. Against undead healing any overkill is inefficient, as the unit state after healing is going to depend almost purely on the health state of the unit. You are better hitting 2 health 99 models with 50 damage than a single one with 100, as the unit would have 1 less health after healing and the same number of models. Not sure how multiple models interact with crumbling (couldn't find any specific information, would be welcome if anyone knows), but I can't see how it could be better there being few models left. Underkill means more models, which means they do more damage, but they can also take damage faster. This can work both ways. I definitely will be using my hammerers differently now. That is good to know.
Damn, makes me wonder how much the biggest of the monsters can kill at once. Like, whenever I see mammoth charging through, there is some very juicy blood rain following often time. Same with Dragons and some else. Bloody shame the Giants don't have a bigger count of those...
Relevant and informative. Nice work, dude. Although, I felt like a bit of an idiot while watching this since you explained things that I almost never even considered. Thanks for turning ignorance into knowledge. 👍
A spread sheet, organized by faction, saying which size a unit is and how big its splash attacks are might be nice. But I doubt it's utility would be worth the hassle. Mixing fragile 'damage dealers' with high priority or larger units is a fun trick, so thanks for that!
Good stuff but I would've also touched on collision damage. I'm actually the one who pointed out to CA that the mammoth was broken in TWW2 and got them to give it back its collision damage and fix its charge animation.
Does the sword of khaine do anything to this? I know this channel is more multiplayer but I'm just curious if this makes the weapon bad in campaign play because it's pretty overkill
![[TH] SPG vs BME - VCT Ascension Pacific - Grand Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bI07fTky_r0/mqdefault.jpg)
The number of affected targets per attack should not be a hidden stat. This is pretty important to evaluate which unit to attack.
I'd like a mouseover card that looks like
150 Damage
350 Armor Piercing Damage
/6 Small Troops
Also the various sizes, we are only shown two types, but there are actually four and each unit interacts with each size differently.
It would be nice to have this info, but I can see why they left it out. This game already displays a ton of information that can be a bit overwhelming for newer players so it is necessary to limit what is shown to keep them interested and not discouraged or tired of reading. BUT, that doesn't explain why there's no option for advanced tooltips that would display such information, or why the in game encyclopedia doesn't explain it.
The game is already stats overload for someone trying to get into it. Especially including the magic and how all the spells work. It's understandable that the developers had to draw the line somewhere.
and mass
Don't let Grimgor get into his zone
Don't let Grimgor get into his zone
Don't let Grimgor get into his zone
Don't let Grimgor get into his zone
Wait till Grimgor will finally DA BEST...
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
@@juanjoelx Da best MEME, he will surpass Helman and Tretch
YOU DO NOT STOP GRIMGOR. GRIMGOR ALWAYS GETS WHAT HE WANTS *WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH*
You haters leave me alone
Dude, quality production here. The editing is legit top notch and high level work. Thanks for your time and energy putting these together and help baddies like me get better.
Appreciate that Sir. And no worries! **fist bump**
Really good work! Very interesting.
@@Zerkovich I agree, top notch indeed! I am curious though, where did you come by this information? Do you find it in the game files themselves or some other way?
He's doing excellent work indeed. I have 470 hours in Warhammer 2 alone and still never really knew this... thought it's random lack of animations or something.
@@elasolezito Yeah untill now I did only guess what happens.
It would be nice to have some table showing details about splash for every unit
Soo... bodyguard units are actually being protected by the presence of their lords when facing splash attacks!
That's quite the situational irony!
That means the best combination is a tanky lord with a damage dealler unit such as Thorgrim Grudgebearer and hammerers.
A bodyguard unit would allow the Lord a unit to run through to escape things or to deter the enemy from pursuing the Lord. But yeah, be a bit counter productive for the Lord to tank for the bodyguard haha.
@@Zerkovich There are basically endless ways you can strategize in this game... it might work having lords tank damage dealing infantry against larger units or other lords - against real planet devoures like mammoths tough I don't think it would make a difference cause they just stomp through infantry like it's not even there lmao.
this is oretty much how legend of tw rolls
@@sovex9331 It does have interesting implications for anti large infantry though - as if a mammoth or something gets totally surrounded by a unit of particularly high damage anti large infantry (eshin triads spring to mind) but is literally incapable of dealing damage to them for the 100 melee defence assassin in the middle of them - then it might find itself in a world of inefficiency.
Legendary Lords hate him for sharing these secrets!
Your videos are seriously underrated. The best ones I've seen for information about how to best play this game, and I've watched a lot.
Appreciate it my dude.
@@Zerkovich you sir are probably more responsible for me enjoying this game and watching twitch more than anyone else thanks again. Btw does this mean there's no friendly fire for splash attacks? It's just a visual when your own units go flying?
What, lionsheart videos are sooo much better, you know, he teaches you how to camp in the corner against stupid AI, a true master at the game
@@michaeldallen234 Even knowing that it's sarcasm, I still grr'd at this comment. Then I laughed. Then I realised that Lionheart literally only teaches you to cheese the AI and that if you fight another player the way he recommends, you'd lose horrendously in an even matchup.
Well played good sir.
Let me add that the start isnt entirely true. When he says they all have their little health bar. I think its still a whole because i noticed the health always dropped significantly before units actually start to die. (half health and almost all units still)
Even when its a melee vs melee fight where units dont mix up much and all dmg comes at the frontline.
I could be wrong, theres really so much hidden. Its just what i experienced in 1000 hours gameplay
15:00 Holy shit. I've been holding my units off so that they don't take damage in a duel, because I didn't know this.
During these slow mo fights comes out how icreadibly unique and well made the animations are in this game, like the leviathan fighting at the end is pure joy to watch. Also, the explanation and editing in your video is really awesome, thanks for all the great info.
So, RoR with the trait "guardian" are actually relevant... Since the lord/heroe who is fighting alongside them will soak up the damage, they'll be fine, and in turn give him Physical resist to tank the damage, all the while dealing their own damage to whatever they're fighting.
Of course, that only applies if fighting a unit with splash damage... Did I get it right ?
They help against archers too
@@IVIRnathanreilly Why ? Do arrows have AOE effect ?
@@alexdsp9468 no, sorry for the confusion. I meant it help the lord take l less middle damage. I could be wrong though
@@alexdsp9468 IIRC some heavier ranged units (as well as artillery) do have a short of an AoE, a column that starts at first unit hit and ends at last unit hit (or the ground) but IIRC penetration is its own mechanic with its own quirks
@@alexdsp9468 some ranged units do have aoe by the fact some are explosive
like bomb throwers or just have explosive damage in their attacks
and a special case for sisters of avelorn having aoe arrows due to lower entity unit count per banner/unit card
and anti infantry artillery will most certainly have aoe
"What are total wars, but a miserable pile of secrets."
Zerkovich, probably.
This is a goddamn quality video if I've ever seen one, almost every bit of info given I didnt know. And I have over 800 hours and have watched a lot of vids on this game. Good stuff.
Where can we find these stats, Zerk? Is this all just manual testing?
Naim Hrustanovic twwstats.com has a lot of hidden stats
You can also get them from the Total War Warhammer 2 Assembly Kit modding tool that comes with the game. If you feel like looking really hard for ALL the stats.
I recommend "Rusted packed files manager", much lighter, faster and easier to use than warhammer assembly kit. You can open data.pack to see almost everything there.
@@KanetheSpaceWolf thanks man! didn't know that existed. although they don't have splash targets
@@KanetheSpaceWolf thanks for sharing - that is an excellent website
For anyone looking for it - the splash damage values are shown under unit cards
Tbh...I have been playing this game for almost 3 years...However, I have no idea about this before the video.....Thank you
When discussing multiple attack zones Nakai's charge attack would be a good example. He charges through his target hitting 3 different zones with his swings. It would have been a good visual for that explanation.
This information would make the skaven council guard stormvermin actually really really good. Like they give buffs to the Lord and are saved by the Lord at the same time during a brawl.
And lol I didn't knew ikkit explodes when he dies! He never died in my skryre campaigns, that's how op he is
Or what a pro Ikit you are...
If you have time to wait 5 rounds after a hard battle you can nuke him on purpose by casting spells at low health with his ability that gives unbreakable after every spell :D
Worth watching to see elves getting a good clobberin
You know what's cool about these slow motion damage tests, they look and operate a LOT like what these fights would look like on tabletop.
1100h with WH2 and I never realised a lot of this stuff. Can't want to see more in this series, especially reload skill.
one question I do have though, how did you find out the splash attack max?
I want to know the same thing
The unit grid on twwstats.com is pretty good for looking at this stuff.
Hm, now i have question. What dmg has friendly fire, and what not? Everything missile and some spells definitely deal dmg to my own units, but i thought splash attacks of my lord, while fighting in a clump of my infantry, too.
No melee attacks, including splash attacks, do friendly fire damage. They can still knock over your troops temporarily stunning them, but it will not do any damage.
Best way to see that in action is with poison : poison projectile hitting the brawl and your unit gets poisoned as well = friendly fire.
poison on melee attack ? Go wild ! you can attack anyone and anything already engaged with your own units and these guy will never get poisoned = no FF ;7
@Jonas Reith great question. I'm not sure but I don't think I've seen a monster knock anyone off a wall, friend or foe. The only times I can remember seeing enemies knocked off the wall are from artillery fire which is capable of friendly fire.
Sounds like the upshot is: If your troops were just there as inconvenient meat, then it's fine; it doesn't matter how many gobbos a troll shoves around, because whether or not the gobbos poke some people with their pointy sticks is irrelevant (in fact, if it's shuffling some of the goblins to the back of the line, it could actually be IMPROVING the mob's defensive ability). But if Thorgrim's bellowing knocks over some Peak Gate Guard, the Dwarfs are going to be missing out on precious hammer time.
In tabletop, only skaven were allowed to shoot on units in melee contact. 'Life is cheap' rule
Nice and informative as always. Very surprised by that 'lords absorb damage' detail, never would have suspected it otherwise.
Btw, the splash does provide more than visual flare. It can be a god send for large units stick in spears, letting them blast their way out.
How to know splash attack max on every unit like grimgor is 6?
CA really should make these mechanics explained in an in-game wiki page
Look up twwstats.com
This is probably one of your best informative videos. I've always looked at the patch notes for updates and wondered how the devs could feasibly make those small adjustments to units, like giving them +2 health. Great video that really shows the more bits-and-pieces mechanics of the game.
There's stat viewers.
This has literally changed my playstyle after over 1K hours and several legendary campaign wins.
17:45
Not sure why he dident mention what the only infantry unit that does splash attack is. Assuming they havent changed it or added any new that unit would be Black orcs that has a maximum splash attack target of 2 assuming its fighting infantry.
@Zerkovich - is there any use for Ghouls? I've tried them on a variety of units but they seem a bit pants for their cost.
It make sense just because you got sent flying don't mean your dead or hurt just mean you got hit by some nock back
But grimgor max should be higher
When a splash attack has "bonus vs infantry" or "bonus vs large", does the bonus apply before of after the division by the number of target ?
Bonuses just add MA and WS when fighting the appropriate target. So it'll just provide slightly better damage to split, and more chance of hits landing.
@@Zerkovich Something I have not found out yet is bonuses for ranged attacks. In melee they increase MA and WS so does that mean in ranged attacks they'd increase Missle Damage and Marksmanship/Accuracy bonus or just Damage only? All I can find is that they work "exactly the same" but ranged accuracy is different and much more complicated than melee hit
@@cynical7577 I believe bonuses vs infantry/large on missile attacks just adds more damage.
One can only appreciate such a well-thought-out combat system with an equally amazing analysis of yours. "Devil is really in the details"
Great video ! I have one quick question tho, what about the "bonus vs infantry" dmg ? I've always found it a bit ridiculous that a lord with 450 dmg get a +12 against infantry, but does that mean that the 12 bonus damage is applied to ALL models hit instead of being shared ? Thanks !
The depth of this game will never cease to astonish me, this is GOOD WORK CA. Take your time for TWW3 and deliver a nice final product as always, not some half finished games like almost all others studios release those days. Good job as always Mr Zerkovich. take care, stay safe.
I didn't even know Ikit had a death detonation, He never was wounded in my Skryre campaign. Also, damn, that gorebeast is thiccc.
Is their a website that gives you the hidden information about individual units or characters such as this splash attack information. Yet again a great video Zerkovich thanks and keeps it up.
I'm not sure if this necessarily has it, but it does have a lot of hidden information. twwstats.com/abilities
I think those max splash values are visible from modding tools with warhammer though.
Probably my favourite video of yours to date. Informative.
Did I miss it, how do you find out their Splash Attack number? How do you know if it 4 or 7? 🤔
Probably from twwstats.com/units?right=570375842370499671 or modding tools
Can you talk about how some unit's animations influence their survivability ?
It's something I witnessed particularly well with the Eagle and Phenix units : when they fight Infantry, or single-large monsters, they often do better than I expected because their attack animations place them periodically out of melee reach of their opponent, making them last longer than their stats just show.
I've always wondered if it was actually a thing, or if my game is just buggy so I'd be really glad if you could help me find out how it truly is ^^
Going by the nature of those units, it is actualy a thing. More people have experienced this, and it also explaines why great Eagles have crappy stats for a high tier unit: they outlast their stats.
it's entirely a thing. The king of that sort of thing is the Tomb scorpion, whose anti-infantry prowess comes for a very large part from its animations, not only in the fact that, as he's jumping and diving, it'll protect him a lot of the time, but also are heavily disruptive, allowing him not to be swamped down, and escape situations he doesn't want to be in.
Animations are a big part of unit survivability, but also efficiency, because they also condition the way you'll hit. High melee attack can be less efficient if the unit has shitty animations that connect rarely.
That's actually something I really love in TW, the fact that there is so much hidden stats, but also things that cannot even be quantified in stats means that you really have to learn the units, and you cannot judge them just from their tooltip.
Though eagles are pretty useless, imo, especially in campaign.
@@gaslar3328 I do manage to get some work done with them in the campaign, but it's better to have them as a mount to a hero (much better stats than the lone version).
@@RoulicisThe yeah, obviously, as a mount for a noble, it's valid, but there is no reason to recruit eagles, and no reason to build the grove building.
What's the infantry that does splash damage?
Is there a big public spreadsheet with the maximum model attacks per unit - as well as the other hidden stats? Great video, thanks!
This is what I would like to know.
Didn't think I'd be looking at Gorebeast ass this early in the morning
Thanks I guess
It really bugs me how CA keeps these secrets that actually has an impact. Like the yari ahigaru in Shogun 2: useless stats but with the Yari Wall ability they become so powerful they not only disintergrate yari samurai but can even make katana samurai sweat.....
Lets hope in WH3 this all changes AND comes with an in-game encyclopedia that explains all things and lets you compare units.....
Nice & informative video, as always :D
Where would be the fun in discovering them in-game then? :D
@@RoulicisThe Because l don't wanna do in-game testing when there's already lots of meta to break down (unit & tier comparison etc), and as in my example in Shogun 2, it merely says yari wall raises def, not that it makes them near invincible.
@@EdgeOfEnding In Total War, all pike units have always been really strong, so when I used their formation for the first time and saw it was a typical "pike wall" I already had a good idea how effective it would be.
Rome 1, Medieval 2, Rome 2, Attila, etc... In every total war game, pike units have been devastating, and charging them up-front isn't a good idea.
The game doesn't tell you this, but seriously : when you see your dudes pointing out a wall of 4-meters long pikes in front of them, it kinda gives out a bunch of warnings man ^^
I think there's a point where there is too much information. Some people would love all the info but a lot would probably be put off trying to learn and understand it all.
@@Zerkovich But you yourself pointed out the usefulness of understanding splash attacks, how a lord could be more designed for crowd control or bigger entities. l'm not requesting everything, but l often come across info quite useful because of e.g reddit or your vids, i.e by pure chance.
Very informative, with the right amount of digging up the stats and a building a cheat sheet you can turn your best weapons into tactical nukes for the most part.
I feel like I'm back at school, except here, I'm actually learning something useful.
" Infantry will not be causing splash attacks there is only 1 unit that does " Which 1?????
Krimson Killas- Ork RoR
I think I’m going to recruit more heroes as officers, to protect my elite infantry after listening to this.
Ok so this is awesome, but how do you find out these hidden stats in the first place, I'd like a video on how to find these statistics for myself so I can look them up again on the fly.
I intend to do that once I've unearthed a few more ;)
Where can I see how many units my dude can hit in a splash attack?
twwstats.com/
Sigvald is hardly merely a “self proclaimed” sexy man... clearly he is also proclaimed as such by anyone with a pair of eyes. 😛
Zerk, ma man never stop making these amazing videos. We all love them and appreciate what you're doing.
17:44 i wasn't prepared for those cheeks
01:40 why does the one elf has a whip??
After getting hit by Grimgor he changes his his spear to a whip mid flight and then dies
2:38
And again!
On 4 min 13 sec mistake, damage not 63, becose 40 armor its only 20% normal damage reduction not 80%, 20 from 25 unit receive
78 must be on screen
Are you really sure about the damage division part though?
I did a test, Hierotitan with 500 pure AP damage (no armor negation) charging into dismounted Blood Knights with 20 models (about 500HP for each).
Guess what happened? They took 3502 damage overall, which suggests that it's actually 500 damage dealt for every hit target in the splash attack.
Charging bonuses
Can you make a video on the max splash of monsters plz
I'm gonna put those 5 damage numbers from Grimgor on a lottery ticket. Wish me luck .D
If you win, I'm claiming my 70%.
@@Zerkovich I can offer a patreon subscription :D
@@1234kalmar if you win, give him Grimgors damage of patreons 😁
Hey thanks, now I know why my lord throws 20 people back but kills none.
The way he talks reminds me of Aerrikk or whatshisface from MHW.
Fantastic production, can you explain *what* melee defense and armor actually do?
HI, is there anyway (a list or something) to know the splash attack of every unit that has it? It would UNIQUE and EXTREMELY USEFUL a mod saying the Max amount of targets in the splash attack of a unit and the attack speed, both as stats.
So, if they want to buff foot lords to make them more competitive, couldn't they remove the high priority label put on them so they are more survivable in infantry blobs and can't be cycle charged to death?
Imagine a lord surrounded by skavenslaves, zombies or peasants. After the whole unit dies, a second one is summoned. The lord is invincible. Thats not balanced anymore. Also not realistic. When you are surrounded by tiny enemies, and you get one superblow and a million tiny taps, you WILL find out who hit that hard (probably the guy three times as big as the others) and take him out first.
Imagine a mounted lord, using its superior mobility to run away from the foot lord. Isn't he invincible from the footlord's perspective because he can't catch him? Also the summoned units have a time limit and a cap to how many times you can cast it.
@@jordankrumins8745 running away as a melee lord means your enemy is just as safe, so no benefit for either during combat itself. But a lord on foot surrounded by fodder will not take damage if he is not focussed in melee, while the enemy lord/hero/monster IS taking damage. And English is not my native tongue, i meant summoning as in: "Oi, you lot, git over 'ere!!!" Then the lord on foot can max his damage output, and the one swamped will waste most of his weapon strength on overkill, hitting 40hp mobs with 100hp hits, and hope he survives untill the enemy runs out of peasants.
And what happens when a splash attack unit that can only splash attack "small" types, e.g. infantry, swings and there are a 'combination' of infantry and large in the swipe area?
Take Skinwolves, what happens if there are two enemy infantry and one cavalry entity from a cav-unit right infront of it's attack? Will the skinwolf only deal single-entity damage against the cavalry and ignore the swordsmen? Or is it based on the skinwolf's random targetting? If the skinwolf decides to target one of the two infantry, those two will have splash attack divided over them and the cavalry will be completely ignored? Likewise, if it attacks the cavalry unit, the infantry is ignored?
Thanks in advance
Keep it up. This is quality work.
I really hope the Greenskin update makes them really good, especially my boy Grimgor
GREENSKIN UPDATE? omg yes! When? I didn't play this game in a while but would love to play a better version of ORKZ!
not entirely sure yet but CA released a statement about certain things to do with Warhammer 2 and one of them was "Grimgor will soon be da best"
11:55
Flagellant: WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Grimgor' iz dah BEST. Humies' r stupid but dis vid iz pretti gud so I'll letz you off dis TIME unless ya a stinkin' GOBBO! Zerking bugger...
I LUV KILLIN' DAH ELVES WITH DAH POINTY EARS. WAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
How come you didn't mention armor in your math? Armor reduces non-AP damage by 50-100% of its value, so a unit with 70 armor can reduce non-AP damage by 35-70%. The high elf spearmen have 30 armor, so non-AP damage done to them would be reduced by 15-30% in your example.
Question!
If a unit with splash has a bonus v infantry of 10 hits six different small entities, does each entity hit take the bonus 10 damage or does it get split evenly between them?
I have tested also with TWWSTAST myself over past few days, was waiting for WS bug to be fixed and it's done today. I wanna talk about Hex Wraiths and Cairn Wraiths and perhaps reason why they feel so weak Cairn Wraiths got Splash Attack of 3 targets and medium area, Attack Speed 4.3. Hex Wraiths got no splash attack at all, and 4.6 speed Could this affect their poor performance? Doomfire Warlocks got also 4.3 speed and splash attack of 3 and medium size also.
One more thing new Black Orc Big Boss has 10 MAX Targets that is insane with his 390 WS.
nice video, was just wondering, what about friendly fire and splash attacks ?
It does more than add 'visual flare'.
He can only Injure 6 of the 15 he hits... but he DISPLACES 15 Units, which means 15 people are not hitting HIM at that time. Which is a HUGE ability, the ability to limit the incoming damage through displacement.
Damn I've been playing these games for years and I learnt new things from just the first 5 mins. Great video mate!
Btw , "NAKAI" is very popular family-name in Japan so every time I see NAKAI I just feel "Oh, Mr.Nakai how R U doin " thing.
Myess... sexy Sigvald syncopated alliterations.
While slashing, stabbing, and skewering small skinks.
Succinctly explains secret slashes and splashes.
Another amazingly informative video, man. Like smashed.
Settra on his chariot has a splash attack max of 4 vs up to very large units... is there a single multi model very large unit in this game? Also is target priority concerning multiple single entity/ large+ models determined by the target of my original attack command/ the attacking units current target? As in, chariot Settra is fighting mammoth wulfrik while surrounded by berserkers and skin wolf werekin. I target wulfrik, but the attack animations splash also involves all other units. WIth a max. size of very large but now fighting 2 single entities, lord and hero, who gets damaged???
I am confusion... or is this just a chariot thing again D: ?
How does bonus vs damage count in splash attacks? Especially if there's two different sized units blobbed up? Like Trolls or horses surrounded by infantry. (Assuming the unit making the attack has a splash damage threshold of "Large" or "medium" as needed so it is splashing over both blobbed units.
It's not explained here. So how do we know which which unit can do a max number splash damage to? 4, 5 or 6? I only know duelist cause lesser units to take damage, dragons in general probably cause a max of 8 units splash damage. What about the rest?
I have played Vortex campaign and Old World campaign as Ikit Claw, but I've never seen Ikit Claw's death animation oO
The base weapon damage cant be pure rng like you say. Or that makes armour pointless. If you have 100 AP damage to something with 1 armour it does 100 damage. If you damage something with 150 armour you still do 100 damage. But with a dice roll like you say for base weapon damage say you have 100 base weapon strength and you attack someone with 1 armour its a random roll between 1 and 100, and if you attack someone with 150 armour its still a pure dice roll between 1 and 100. That would make no sense to me.
Best vid you have ever done. I have played TWWH since 1 and have never had this comprehensively explained. Very useful!
If a unit has an enchanted weapon with Magic attack on their melee and ranged, is it ALWAYS counted as magic? For example would it be weaker against dwarfs even though it's still a physical sword just with an aura? Or does it choose the lesser resistance? (Though i could see ethereal units always counting as magic)
So in Tabletop terms: you culd say Grimmgore for example has 6 Attacks per Round of Combat, and if he hits or not is a random chance.
I actually like that. :)
Ive played around 1000hrs in wh2 alone and I NEVER knew about target priority 14:40.
... And then there's the mammoths which have this weird invisible trample damage mechanic that I couldn't find anything about in the .pack files! Amazing video though, thanks so much - I'd been ruminating on this for a long time.
Wow this explains so much. Sometimes I've been surprised by my Wight King or something suddenly being really low on health, but thanks to this I now know that it was probably absorbing the damage for some shitty skeletons lol.
I think the sizes should be renamed
-Smol
-Big
-Thicc
-Xtra Thicc
I kinda think that needs reworked. If a splash attack character hits targets and makes them fly back (and you can see BLOOD) they SHOULD take damage/casualties.
5:52 some missed opportunity there
Self stated sexy stud Sigvald skirmishes a sworm of skinks
I forgot to mention that something useful you may have included is WHERE we can find these hidden numbers. Could you provide a link to a source, please?
But Zerkovich! You didn't say how many units Ikit's explosion splashes to! The people need answers.
I fucking love the lizardmen dude. I like how they're B tier too, just all around great. Such a fun race. My personal favourite.
There was a comment made by Drew Breckner below when someone asked how Zerkovich got the stats in the first place - twwstats.com/units?right=tww2_beta; there is a vast amount of useful information there as well so give it a view if you're interested in the details. Please upvote this (or better yet, their comment as the original one) so that people can find it easier.
On a side note, I am literally bewildered by the quality of your videos; 10/10 all around.
The short advertisment and big arrow towards the link actually helped me find the full one. Good idea to increase reach Zerkovich!
Won't splash attacks do some friendly damage as well? I had some experience where I was using Karl Franz and he was fighting a lord while being surrounded by friendly swordsmen. One splash attack from KF knocked some friendlies around and hurt the lord but I saw that there was some damage to the friendlies.
Question about hero attack talents and splash. I've always felt that talents that add like 6 damage to a lord who hits for 500 was increadibly lackluster. But if its 6 damage for each target hit, it'd make such talents much more appealing. Do you know if this is how such damage modifiers work? or is it just the base damage split over the targets?
Underkilling is a problem against healing mechanics, and when the enemy is going to escape, or when they are able to get more of their damage out, but there are times it is better for you. If you are going to continue hitting the unit with other AoE or inaccurate fire having more targets to hit can up how fast you do damage. Against undead healing any overkill is inefficient, as the unit state after healing is going to depend almost purely on the health state of the unit. You are better hitting 2 health 99 models with 50 damage than a single one with 100, as the unit would have 1 less health after healing and the same number of models. Not sure how multiple models interact with crumbling (couldn't find any specific information, would be welcome if anyone knows), but I can't see how it could be better there being few models left.
Underkill means more models, which means they do more damage, but they can also take damage faster. This can work both ways.
I definitely will be using my hammerers differently now. That is good to know.
Damn, makes me wonder how much the biggest of the monsters can kill at once. Like, whenever I see mammoth charging through, there is some very juicy blood rain following often time. Same with Dragons and some else. Bloody shame the Giants don't have a bigger count of those...
Relevant and informative. Nice work, dude. Although, I felt like a bit of an idiot while watching this since you explained things that I almost never even considered. Thanks for turning ignorance into knowledge. 👍
A spread sheet, organized by faction, saying which size a unit is and how big its splash attacks are might be nice. But I doubt it's utility would be worth the hassle. Mixing fragile 'damage dealers' with high priority or larger units is a fun trick, so thanks for that!
Good stuff but I would've also touched on collision damage.
I'm actually the one who pointed out to CA that the mammoth was broken in TWW2 and got them to give it back its collision damage and fix its charge animation.
Does the sword of khaine do anything to this? I know this channel is more multiplayer but I'm just curious if this makes the weapon bad in campaign play because it's pretty overkill