Fair points surrounding limbo in terms of the critisisms though there i feel you are weighting those real hard too where if one looks at it pound for pound hes acthually very similar to harrow with the opportunities his kit offers with headshots and damage amping. Hes got a skill based survival mecanic. (you can take limbo to steel path unmodded and live.) and he has the defensive capability of frost + ability to keep operatives safe. + ability to do spy + ability to prevent even eximus from capturing interception points. He basically does a little bit of everything though lacks the ability to share his buffs with his team like the two others. basically if we are to be fair he would be in A. if you know him. C if you dont know him in depth. The rift mecanic does need some serious tune ups though and bug fixes to get rid of the anti synergy however....
@@JMAssainatorz The way you describe him is perfect. He can keep objectives safe and do spy, however, other Warframes just do this much better. Since more and more Warframes can just nuke enemies, his crowd control is showing its age, just like Loki. He can survive steel path to a decent degree, as soon as 5 minutes pass though and a few eximus start spawning he will end up struggling a lot. I really do hope for a rework or large change with him. He is in my top 3 of favourite designed Warframes and that was the reason he did not go in the lowest tier lol.
I personally dont understand the survivability argument for banshee when we have shield gating literally any warframe with a shield can survive very easy even into lvl cap by just casting regularly and maybe have aegis her dmg and silence alone make her well worth using imo.
Yes that is true, any frame can shield gate. However, most frames in this list have decent to amazing survivability. Banshee has very little. Relying on Silence for survivability is not reliable as Eximus enemies completely ignore this factor, and they will gun you down. Especially in a mission that lasts longer than 5 minutes, and those enemies constantly spawn. You NEED to subsume Eclipse or Gloom onto her for decent survivability. Honestly, she only has 1 good ability, which even then, isn't needed in most content as weapons are so good in this day and age. I do understand what you're saying, but when we compare Banshee to all other Warframes on this list, she cannot really compete to even a decent degree.
@literally_lukey4692 nah i have a video on banshee you can shield gate with her for up too lvl cap i can tag you next time i do a cap run with her if you like gloom or eclipse isn't necessary the only that is necessary on her and i can how that could effect her ranking is she kinda really wants primed sure footed besides that i can shield gate with every single one of her abilities if you build her right
28:48 no thermal sunder does not fall of, run archon vitality on it and use heat multiple times before using cold and this ability can kill any lvl cap enemie without any problems
Sorry this was a mistake on my behalf. I always overlooked this ability, but now I see the potential. I still prefer Gauss as a weapons platform, but a Thermal Sunder build will still do great.
@ thats very fair and he is an excellent weapons platform. Just thermal sunder is also one of the easiest and fastest nukes in the game for high lvl enemies, just its mechanics are really unintuitive
in what reality does mesa outkill dante outsurvive or outsupport dante are you one of those that used him pre nerf and then actually think he isnt top 3 post nerf cause he does everything wisp does better kills as fast or faster than half the frames in the S tier and has the best team wide defensive utility in the game
@@inarosthedad3565 It would’ve been great if you heard what I had to say instead of skipping to the end. I stated Dante was the CLOSEST Warframe to S+ and I do think he definitely can go there. I don’t know why you’re comparing the two? Mesa can out kill Dante considerably. Since Mesa is so exceptional at killing, while also having great survivability, and one of the BEST exalted weapons in the game, Mesa is definitely higher than Dante imo. Then again, we are comparing a support over a DPS. I also find the comparison to Wisp extremely weird, Dante literally only brings overguard as support in higher level missions. Wisp brings great utility such as speed, crowd control, damage, and survivability. Yes he can kill pretty well, but generally I find it better to use Incarnon weapons with him as it preforms better in steel path rather than just spamming Tragedy. Especially in Netracells or Archemedia where Tragedy does not scale as well, and in those situations, he honestly just brings overguard to the table. I understand what you’re saying, but please listen to what I say in the video next time.
@@literally_lukey4692 in a way, both dante and mesa should belong in high S tier regardless, but its still unfair to compare the warframes (and wisp is just wisp, haste alone is good but the rest of her kit kinda just doesnt work with the AoE meta we're in rn) Mesa is a relatively straightforward 'shoot everything' frame which understandably is great up until you have to deal with high level content (lvl>2k) where getting oneshotted is common, standing still is a death sentence and Vazarin spamming is required. Yes, she's great for general content. Does she scale well? kinda. Nourish is a great subsume, but you gotta have some sort of defense on Mesa as well (90% DR against 1million damage is still taking 100k dmg). Whenever I use her, I feel forced to use Vazarin and either rolling guard or Catalyzing Shields just to keep up with others in surviving. What Dante has to offer is being a caster frame with good AoE and tanking with overguard. He provides the team with overguard, paragrimm taking aggro and spreading damage vulnerability which takes MORE damage than you'd think although not as great as mirage's clones, and a copy of noctua not only to yourself but also to the team. Tragedy alone scales good but with a Roar subsume you add faction damage to abilities making the slash DoT and status expedite hit harder than usual. What's interesting is Noctua is STILL usable if you subsume over his one since Dante's 4 summons a copy of it anyways, allowing full use of his kit (4+1 abilities). Not to mention being able to use Dante as a weapons platform is already just stupid. His main downside is requiring some casting speed to keep up with how spammy his kit is. (natural talent + 2 tforged cast speed shards is helpful, madurai cast speed buff is a bonus ontop of sling strength) While overguard is weak (0.3-0.5 overguard gate) its still overguard, its nice to have anyways and people appreciate the free status and knockback immune. 1 overguard is better than no overguard. Overall, Mesa's great for general SP content but Dante's flexibility as a support is highly valued if youre planning to take it further up to lvlcap with or without a team. I'd say this is a well balanced tierlist and although I do disagree with some takes, its good enough as a general overview on what frames are strong in High SP, considering most frames are lvlcap viable.
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Fair points surrounding limbo in terms of the critisisms though there i feel you are weighting those real hard too where if one looks at it pound for pound hes acthually very similar to harrow with the opportunities his kit offers with headshots and damage amping. Hes got a skill based survival mecanic. (you can take limbo to steel path unmodded and live.) and he has the defensive capability of frost + ability to keep operatives safe. + ability to do spy + ability to prevent even eximus from capturing interception points. He basically does a little bit of everything though lacks the ability to share his buffs with his team like the two others.
basically if we are to be fair he would be in A. if you know him. C if you dont know him in depth. The rift mecanic does need some serious tune ups though and bug fixes to get rid of the anti synergy however....
@@JMAssainatorz The way you describe him is perfect. He can keep objectives safe and do spy, however, other Warframes just do this much better. Since more and more Warframes can just nuke enemies, his crowd control is showing its age, just like Loki.
He can survive steel path to a decent degree, as soon as 5 minutes pass though and a few eximus start spawning he will end up struggling a lot.
I really do hope for a rework or large change with him. He is in my top 3 of favourite designed Warframes and that was the reason he did not go in the lowest tier lol.
This is flipping awesome
I personally dont understand the survivability argument for banshee when we have shield gating literally any warframe with a shield can survive very easy even into lvl cap by just casting regularly and maybe have aegis her dmg and silence alone make her well worth using imo.
Yes that is true, any frame can shield gate. However, most frames in this list have decent to amazing survivability. Banshee has very little. Relying on Silence for survivability is not reliable as Eximus enemies completely ignore this factor, and they will gun you down. Especially in a mission that lasts longer than 5 minutes, and those enemies constantly spawn. You NEED to subsume Eclipse or Gloom onto her for decent survivability.
Honestly, she only has 1 good ability, which even then, isn't needed in most content as weapons are so good in this day and age. I do understand what you're saying, but when we compare Banshee to all other Warframes on this list, she cannot really compete to even a decent degree.
@literally_lukey4692 nah i have a video on banshee you can shield gate with her for up too lvl cap i can tag you next time i do a cap run with her if you like gloom or eclipse isn't necessary the only that is necessary on her and i can how that could effect her ranking is she kinda really wants primed sure footed besides that i can shield gate with every single one of her abilities if you build her right
28:48 no thermal sunder does not fall of, run archon vitality on it and use heat multiple times before using cold and this ability can kill any lvl cap enemie without any problems
Sorry this was a mistake on my behalf. I always overlooked this ability, but now I see the potential. I still prefer Gauss as a weapons platform, but a Thermal Sunder build will still do great.
@ thats very fair and he is an excellent weapons platform. Just thermal sunder is also one of the easiest and fastest nukes in the game for high lvl enemies, just its mechanics are really unintuitive
in what reality does mesa outkill dante outsurvive or outsupport dante are you one of those that used him pre nerf and then actually think he isnt top 3 post nerf cause he does everything wisp does better kills as fast or faster than half the frames in the S tier and has the best team wide defensive utility in the game
@@inarosthedad3565 It would’ve been great if you heard what I had to say instead of skipping to the end.
I stated Dante was the CLOSEST Warframe to S+ and I do think he definitely can go there. I don’t know why you’re comparing the two? Mesa can out kill Dante considerably. Since Mesa is so exceptional at killing, while also having great survivability, and one of the BEST exalted weapons in the game, Mesa is definitely higher than Dante imo. Then again, we are comparing a support over a DPS.
I also find the comparison to Wisp extremely weird, Dante literally only brings overguard as support in higher level missions. Wisp brings great utility such as speed, crowd control, damage, and survivability.
Yes he can kill pretty well, but generally I find it better to use Incarnon weapons with him as it preforms better in steel path rather than just spamming Tragedy. Especially in Netracells or Archemedia where Tragedy does not scale as well, and in those situations, he honestly just brings overguard to the table. I understand what you’re saying, but please listen to what I say in the video next time.
Dante does NOT outkill/out survive mesa, i believe its around lvl 6/700 where it feels like 60k overguard js doesn't matter
i developed 13 aneurysms trying to read this comment
@@literally_lukey4692 in a way, both dante and mesa should belong in high S tier regardless, but its still unfair to compare the warframes (and wisp is just wisp, haste alone is good but the rest of her kit kinda just doesnt work with the AoE meta we're in rn)
Mesa is a relatively straightforward 'shoot everything' frame which understandably is great up until you have to deal with high level content (lvl>2k) where getting oneshotted is common, standing still is a death sentence and Vazarin spamming is required. Yes, she's great for general content. Does she scale well? kinda. Nourish is a great subsume, but you gotta have some sort of defense on Mesa as well (90% DR against 1million damage is still taking 100k dmg). Whenever I use her, I feel forced to use Vazarin and either rolling guard or Catalyzing Shields just to keep up with others in surviving.
What Dante has to offer is being a caster frame with good AoE and tanking with overguard. He provides the team with overguard, paragrimm taking aggro and spreading damage vulnerability which takes MORE damage than you'd think although not as great as mirage's clones, and a copy of noctua not only to yourself but also to the team. Tragedy alone scales good but with a Roar subsume you add faction damage to abilities making the slash DoT and status expedite hit harder than usual. What's interesting is Noctua is STILL usable if you subsume over his one since Dante's 4 summons a copy of it anyways, allowing full use of his kit (4+1 abilities). Not to mention being able to use Dante as a weapons platform is already just stupid. His main downside is requiring some casting speed to keep up with how spammy his kit is. (natural talent + 2 tforged cast speed shards is helpful, madurai cast speed buff is a bonus ontop of sling strength)
While overguard is weak (0.3-0.5 overguard gate) its still overguard, its nice to have anyways and people appreciate the free status and knockback immune. 1 overguard is better than no overguard.
Overall, Mesa's great for general SP content but Dante's flexibility as a support is highly valued if youre planning to take it further up to lvlcap with or without a team. I'd say this is a well balanced tierlist and although I do disagree with some takes, its good enough as a general overview on what frames are strong in High SP, considering most frames are lvlcap viable.