I grew up hearing the Proverbs quoted to me and then dug into them more as an adult. This podcast added another layer of meaning to so many of them! No wonder the authors of the proverbs spend so much time talking about fools! Most of our problems come from the foolish, not the outright evil. Thanks so much for sharing. Now I have to look up Henry Cloud.
This was well done!!! Keep these coming. It's a wise way to do the podcast. Your voice is genuinely caring and it comes across in how and what you're communicating. Well done Carey!
Thank you, Carey! I am in the process of being hired as a marketing and communications manager at a new church with almost all of these toxic traits and it's been troubling for me to want this role. I've been in ministry for almost 17 years and this is has been some of the best advice I've heard in a very long time. I look forward to all your podcast episodes!
It's hard to enter into a situation with elements like these but awareness makes a huge difference. I hope this is helpful as you navigate the new role and new relationships. I'm cheering for you!
Marketing and communications manager are not words that ought to be attached to a church. No wonder it's toxic. Can you imagine Jesus hiring a marketing manager?? What's happened to relationships in a group of people that is small enough to deeply know each other?
I’m curious how this fits with the problem of narcissism that Jim Wilder talks about in his book the Pandora Problem. That book addresses ow narcissism is tolerated in the church and he points to the response a healthy church would have to narcissism. Would the narcissistic person fall in the evil or foolish category? What about the divisive person that is talked about in the New Testament? Thanks for the good teaching!
Carey, so good. I discovered all of these things in the course of my ministry. There’s a good book that fits with what you’re saying and deals mostly with the “evil“ contingent, “Antagonist in the church.” The book is very helpful for me in a very difficult time in my ministry. Your content is always excellent. I like this new format. Keep this stuff coming!
There are so many churches in America where there is little to no accountability for staff. We're often the most inefficient organization on earth. Now, it takes 12 staff to do what 2 did 40 years ago! I asked for details of whom was on staff at my church two months ago, and still NO RESPONSE from Exec Pastor. And often, when someone brings needed accountability and questions, they get labeled as "toxic." That is unhealthy as well.
Wow, excellent. I think we also need teaching of this type in school for our everyday life. I have shared this with my adult children so they can learn how to avoid and handle toxic people... not just in a ministry setting, but frankly, in our lives. We each have a mission to fulfill, and by allowing toxic people into our fold, we hinder our own individual ministry. This is fantastic from an organizational perspective and also valuable on a personal level. Excellent message, Carey.
Thanks Carey! I find the podcasts with just you even better than the others. These are much shorter and to the point, which makes them more sharable also. Please keep doing them! (This one was particularly useful to me since as a relatively young leader I have sometimes been naïve about people).
Thank you for this concise over view of a difficult topic. Thanks for including talking about evil people. The truth that most good hearted people think that others are just like them is a very true dynamic. Sometimes it's hard to see evil coming because they are master manipulators and do something called mirroring. I think the best way to spot truly evil people is to listen to your intuition and not shut it off because you don't want to be judgemental. The second is looking for there mask to slip. The third can be hard to spot if you're in top leadership is those who "kiss up and kick down". Basically they are two different people with two faces. I've had misfortune of having evil people people (usually Narcissistic behaviors or out right NPD) destroy me from the inside out before doing "the discard" in a Christian College and in a Christian Ministry. They can sneak in and do so much damage the worst part was not being truly believed not being protected. Their behavior will not be consistent and the way they treat others will not be consistent. Evil people aren't awful to everybody. They play their hand carefully. They are "wise in their evilness"
A side benefit of today is helping me understand why a guy who never wants a negative thing to come out of his mouth and is affirming others at ever chance is often not trusted. I had decided when I chose Christ over suicide to never add to another's pain. I wanted to be a source of hope in the life of others. Just about every time I see something worthy of affirmation I speak to it. I've always wanted to be a force opposite of what I was under for years. I see now that the "nothing but abundant affirmation" person would be feared as a manipulative salesman.
You can't be 'nothing but affirmative' and be real and authentic. Jesus was not 'nothing but affirmative''. He threw chairs down the temple steps, he had strong words for the religious leaders, let alone telling Peter his best friend to' get behind me Satan'.
I am a bit concerned about the lost art of confronting sin. Of course we look at ourselves firstly as mentioned but sometimes getting healthy churches requires the courage to stand up to the unhealthy leaders or parishioners? Right? Throughout scripture we see clearly that these were God's people rejected by the majority for doing so. Jesus too. Of course no church is perfect! Can you speak a bit to that? Jackie
Fantastic pod! I love how you put into words what I have seen also. These keys are subtle but very telling. Really appreciate your content, Carey! I have already sent this to multiple church leaders! 😊
This helps a lot in the midst of me facing organisational frustration.
Thank you for sharing those precious nuggets, sir
You are most welcome
I grew up hearing the Proverbs quoted to me and then dug into them more as an adult. This podcast added another layer of meaning to so many of them! No wonder the authors of the proverbs spend so much time talking about fools! Most of our problems come from the foolish, not the outright evil. Thanks so much for sharing. Now I have to look up Henry Cloud.
Henry Cloud will be a great resource for you - I've interviewed him on the podcast too!
This was well done!!! Keep these coming. It's a wise way to do the podcast. Your voice is genuinely caring and it comes across in how and what you're communicating. Well done Carey!
Thanks for the great encouragement!
Thank you, Carey! I am in the process of being hired as a marketing and communications manager at a new church with almost all of these toxic traits and it's been troubling for me to want this role. I've been in ministry for almost 17 years and this is has been some of the best advice I've heard in a very long time. I look forward to all your podcast episodes!
It's hard to enter into a situation with elements like these but awareness makes a huge difference. I hope this is helpful as you navigate the new role and new relationships. I'm cheering for you!
Marketing and communications manager are not words that ought to be attached to a church. No wonder it's toxic. Can you imagine Jesus hiring a marketing manager?? What's happened to relationships in a group of people that is small enough to deeply know each other?
Outstanding! Thank you for this valuable episode.
Glad it was helpful!
I’m curious how this fits with the problem of narcissism that Jim Wilder talks about in his book the Pandora Problem. That book addresses ow narcissism is tolerated in the church and he points to the response a healthy church would have to narcissism. Would the narcissistic person fall in the evil or foolish category? What about the divisive person that is talked about in the New Testament?
Thanks for the good teaching!
So true Janice! Thank you for Jim Wilder. Never knew about him and love reading:)
Carey, so good. I discovered all of these things in the course of my ministry. There’s a good book that fits with what you’re saying and deals mostly with the “evil“ contingent, “Antagonist in the church.” The book is very helpful for me in a very difficult time in my ministry. Your content is always excellent. I like this new format. Keep this stuff coming!
Thanks, Bill!
There are so many churches in America where there is little to no accountability for staff. We're often the most inefficient organization on earth. Now, it takes 12 staff to do what 2 did 40 years ago! I asked for details of whom was on staff at my church two months ago, and still NO RESPONSE from Exec Pastor. And often, when someone brings needed accountability and questions, they get labeled as "toxic." That is unhealthy as well.
Great point!
Wow, excellent. I think we also need teaching of this type in school for our everyday life. I have shared this with my adult children so they can learn how to avoid and handle toxic people... not just in a ministry setting, but frankly, in our lives. We each have a mission to fulfill, and by allowing toxic people into our fold, we hinder our own individual ministry. This is fantastic from an organizational perspective and also valuable on a personal level. Excellent message, Carey.
So glad you found it helpful Nicole. I agree, it applies to all orgs, not just churches.
This is so helpful! I'm really loving this new format!
I'm so glad! Thanks for watching
Thanks Carey! I find the podcasts with just you even better than the others. These are much shorter and to the point, which makes them more sharable also. Please keep doing them!
(This one was particularly useful to me since as a relatively young leader I have sometimes been naïve about people).
Wow, thank you!
Thank you for this concise over view of a difficult topic. Thanks for including talking about evil people. The truth that most good hearted people think that others are just like them is a very true dynamic. Sometimes it's hard to see evil coming because they are master manipulators and do something called mirroring. I think the best way to spot truly evil people is to listen to your intuition and not shut it off because you don't want to be judgemental. The second is looking for there mask to slip. The third can be hard to spot if you're in top leadership is those who "kiss up and kick down". Basically they are two different people with two faces. I've had misfortune of having evil people people (usually Narcissistic behaviors or out right NPD) destroy me from the inside out before doing "the discard" in a Christian College and in a Christian Ministry. They can sneak in and do so much damage the worst part was not being truly believed not being protected. Their behavior will not be consistent and the way they treat others will not be consistent. Evil people aren't awful to everybody. They play their hand carefully. They are "wise in their evilness"
Ugh, so sorry you've had to deal with that Michelle
Amazing!!!!!!!!!! Keep’em coming!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the encouragement!
A side benefit of today is helping me understand why a guy who never wants a negative thing to come out of his mouth and is affirming others at ever chance is often not trusted. I had decided when I chose Christ over suicide to never add to another's pain. I wanted to be a source of hope in the life of others. Just about every time I see something worthy of affirmation I speak to it. I've always wanted to be a force opposite of what I was under for years. I see now that the "nothing but abundant affirmation" person would be feared as a manipulative salesman.
You can't be 'nothing but affirmative' and be real and authentic. Jesus was not 'nothing but affirmative''. He threw chairs down the temple steps, he had strong words for the religious leaders, let alone telling Peter his best friend to' get behind me Satan'.
Thank you.
You're welcome!
I am a bit concerned about the lost art of confronting sin. Of course we look at ourselves firstly as mentioned but sometimes getting healthy churches requires the courage to stand up to the unhealthy leaders or parishioners? Right? Throughout scripture we see clearly that these were God's people rejected by the majority for doing so. Jesus too. Of course no church is perfect!
Can you speak a bit to that?
Jackie
So helpful!!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching Rebecca.
Fantastic pod! I love how you put into words what I have seen also. These keys are subtle but very telling. Really appreciate your content, Carey! I have already sent this to multiple church leaders! 😊
Thanks for sharing Victoria!
Thank you so much, Carey. This was incredibly helpful. Especially as we are in the hiring process.
Glad it was helpful!
Super helpful. Thank you sir!
Trevor, so glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
This is really helpful. Thanks!
Glad to hear it!
Thank you so very much
You are so welcome