I like your discussion on Saruman's pettiness. I always remember the line from Gandalf "Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool!" - I always took this as when a Rich man with everything envies and covets the satisfaction of the blue collar man who is grateful for all they have. It's such a telling line and in that moment, his whole character is revealed to us, not by his actions or by his plans, but in his contempt for all the simple pleasures and cares of the world.
I had a BritLit professor in the early 90s who plainly considered Tolkien's fiction to be on the same literary level as Steven King novels, or maybe People magazine.
John, someone once asked me who was the “baddest” elf (most formidable), and I said without hesitation, Fingolfin. I said a case could be made for the reincarnated-and powered up-Glorfindel; however, aside from the fact that Tolkien described Fingolfin as the most valiant, he did put up a good fight against a Vala, wounding Morgoth seven times. Then I was asked how could Fingolfin have been so capable if he spent most of his time in Valinor, and actually only fought in a few battles before he was killed. My answer… and I suppose my question to you, if you agree or disagree, is that Fingolfin was particularly well-liked by the Vala, as opposed to his brother Feanor, who held contempt for almost everyone save his father and his sons. I believe that Fingolfin was given probably the equivalent of hundreds of years of training by both Eonwe and Orome-so much so, that I believe Fingolfin as a student might only be matched in combat by these powers (excluding Tulkas, who was simply the Tolkien equivalent of the Hulk). Do you agree with my premise? I believe Fingolfin became the greatest fighter through the tutelage of Eonwe and probably Orome, while his brother gleaned wisdom and understanding through study under other Vala. Feanor learned some crafting from Aule, but developed his own skills. Likewise, Ingwion and the Vanyar who never ventured to Middle Earth until that final battle with Morgoth, probably received their martial training from Eonwe.
Great points about Bilbo’s bachelor-hood. I don’t know if Tolkien had it in mind, but it’s interesting to connect that to Aldarion/Erendis (or perhaps even the Ents/Entwives) where the external distractions/interests bring about a kind of divorce. Aldarion/Erendis, as you will know, had their mutual attraction but the marriage was very much brought about by custom and social expectations. And eventually their (equally responsible) poor relationship rubs off on their daughter, causing an imbalance of leadership in Numenor. If you keep the situation in mind, you could make an argument that Bag End is the most desirable residence and symbol of status, a bit like a King’s house. In which case Bilbo is in the same position as Aldarion. But Bilbo - and Frodo - by shunning tradition and remaining bachelors to follow their commitment to wherever fate is leading them, act like worthy stewards before passing Bag End on to a family worthy of that status ie the Gamgee-Cotton-Gardeners, with seven times Mayor Samwise being something like a king in his own right. As I said, I don’t know if Tolkien definitely had this parallel/foreshadowing in mind but it’s a hell of a long play and pay off if he did!
Remember also that Frodo is traumatized, he was but a kid when his parent drowned and rumours circulated about his parents having killed each others. Imagine what hearing those rumours as a mourning kid would do to his psyche. He is "a burned child" which "dreads the fire". He has all the rights to shun relationships.
@ Do you think maybe that could also tie in with the Gaffer’s rebuttal of rumours ? “There isn’t no call to go talking of pushing and pulling” That phrase in another context could be applied to the relationship of Aldarion and Erendis, who seem equally responsible for their failed marriage.
@@John-Sierra I could never come to a solid conclusion myself. It felt like maybe it was one of those things that could be very heavily one sided depending on which side you as a reader feel most sympathetic towards. But the text/narrator doesn’t really provide a clutch moment to make it definite. It’s a very interesting part in the legendarium though, not least because of its significance in drawing Numenor into the mainland conflict!
Eat! The Hobbits had a Yule celebration, and like all of their celebrations, it involved a great deal of eating!. Telling stories, singing songs, and dancing as well.
Thank you , im English 50 , and I find it surprising that people don't realize that fantasy and science fiction where not really considered serious or respectable here until relatively recently , the golden age of science fiction (60s to 80s) was more of an American phenomenon ,
i think i have an explanation for the sauron reaching for isildur instead of hitting him with his mace? there’s a deleted scene, if you can call it a scene, really a storyboard or two, depicting gil-galad being picked up by sauron and crushed/burned to death in his flaming hands. i remember seeing it in a deleted scene compilation on youtube. (this one, i’m pretty sure th-cam.com/video/4CxqTBTAeBQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=n9_bgBKAHdK9hMYm). but i think it was cut bc it would mean there would need to be extra time spent, not just on that moment, but also extra time spent on setting up gil-galad, i.e showing and mentioning him on screen. perhaps it might have taken away from the real meat and potatoes, the emotion of the king and the kings son narrative in that moment, and also be an unnecessary extravagance considering gil-galad is never really mentioned again after this, kind of also the reason in for cutting glorfindel’s role. i do think that the inclusion of that scene would have helped explain to audiences why he chose that, and add to characterisation-sauron would prefer to prolong the suffering of his enemies/people he believes have wronged him over efficiency and logic. (and if that character is a númenorean, like isildur is, even more so) i never really thought about it as a child until someone mentioned it as an adult; i kind of just presumed that with being evil, along follows other attributes like short-sightedness, stupidity and again, choosing to long out suffering over the logical thing to do; a bit like how villains give monologues to the captured hero long enough for the deus ex machina to take place rather than just killing them there and then, it’s a type of arrogance, entitlement and cruelty.
I have not created such a thing, but the idea is intriguing. I hadn't bothered because I don't want to get bogged down in "I've already answered that" sort of stuff - I just answer what is interesting each week without worrying about repeating it. I might create one if people are interested, but I want people to not have to worry about searching for a question, they could always just ask.
The description in the Silmarillion of the Easterlings of the First Age certainly doesn't make them sound like ancestors of the Rohirrim: Swarthy Men, short, broad, swart skinned.
No, but it is believed that mortals who sustain themselves off of Lembas for a long while may wish to become elves - which is nonsense, of course. It didn't happen to Frodo and Sam, for example. Tuor is a bit of a different circumstance, as he is so very unique, but in this case, he had a special destiny plotted out for him.
Reminds me of how Johann Sebastian Bach, constantly by everyone, I'm talking music professors, musicians and just about every composer is referred to a by an objective standard the greatest composer of all time yet he wasn't very well regarded during his time and only became popular thanks to Felix Mendelssohn in the 1800s a number of decades after his death. And more on the Nobel prize, I find it a rather flawed selective process as Einstein never won a Nobel prize himself for neither special or general relativity and then he and Bose never won a prize for the Bose-Einstein condensate so in my option he was worthy of 4 Nobel Prizes including the photo-electric effect which he did win it in. Then there's Alexander Friedman responsible for correcting Einstein and coming up with the Friedman equations which predicted that and how the universe was expanding, the discovery of dark matter was not given a Nobel prize for, there's Emmy Noether who came up with Noether's theorem which is integral for modern physics and then, just this year, the Nobel prize in physics was given to some people working on AI when there was a perfectly good discovery, you know... related to physics. So Tolkien not winning a Nobel prize really isn't the biggest thing in the world and doesn't make him any worse. Edit: I would also like to add that it takes time to be nominated, Einstein discovered the photoelectric effect in 1905 and only received the Nobel Prize for it in 1921, for Tolkien, the Lord of the Rings, as you say only became popular in the 1960s which is pretty late in his lifetime so maybe he didn't live long enough for his impact to truely have found its way to the Nobel comity and also there is no such thing as a posthumous Nobel Prize nomination, though I certainly wish that to be the case
Nice! Thanks, you’re a great Tolkienologist.
I like your discussion on Saruman's pettiness. I always remember the line from Gandalf "Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool!" - I always took this as when a Rich man with everything envies and covets the satisfaction of the blue collar man who is grateful for all they have. It's such a telling line and in that moment, his whole character is revealed to us, not by his actions or by his plans, but in his contempt for all the simple pleasures and cares of the world.
Thanks for the answer and another amazing video with lots of deep knowledge 🙏🏽
I had a BritLit professor in the early 90s who plainly considered Tolkien's fiction to be on the same literary level as Steven King novels, or maybe People magazine.
You have my sword... and you have my bow... AND MY MOUNTAIN DEW!!
John, someone once asked me who was the “baddest” elf (most formidable), and I said without hesitation, Fingolfin. I said a case could be made for the reincarnated-and powered up-Glorfindel; however, aside from the fact that Tolkien described Fingolfin as the most valiant, he did put up a good fight against a Vala, wounding Morgoth seven times. Then I was asked how could Fingolfin have been so capable if he spent most of his time in Valinor, and actually only fought in a few battles before he was killed. My answer… and I suppose my question to you, if you agree or disagree, is that Fingolfin was particularly well-liked by the Vala, as opposed to his brother Feanor, who held contempt for almost everyone save his father and his sons. I believe that Fingolfin was given probably the equivalent of hundreds of years of training by both Eonwe and Orome-so much so, that I believe Fingolfin as a student might only be matched in combat by these powers (excluding Tulkas, who was simply the Tolkien equivalent of the Hulk).
Do you agree with my premise? I believe Fingolfin became the greatest fighter through the tutelage of Eonwe and probably Orome, while his brother gleaned wisdom and understanding through study under other Vala. Feanor learned some crafting from Aule, but developed his own skills. Likewise, Ingwion and the Vanyar who never ventured to Middle Earth until that final battle with Morgoth, probably received their martial training from Eonwe.
Great points about Bilbo’s bachelor-hood.
I don’t know if Tolkien had it in mind, but it’s interesting to connect that to Aldarion/Erendis (or perhaps even the Ents/Entwives) where the external distractions/interests bring about a kind of divorce.
Aldarion/Erendis, as you will know, had their mutual attraction but the marriage was very much brought about by custom and social expectations. And eventually their (equally responsible) poor relationship rubs off on their daughter, causing an imbalance of leadership in Numenor.
If you keep the situation in mind, you could make an argument that Bag End is the most desirable residence and symbol of status, a bit like a King’s house. In which case Bilbo is in the same position as Aldarion.
But Bilbo - and Frodo - by shunning tradition and remaining bachelors to follow their commitment to wherever fate is leading them, act like worthy stewards before passing Bag End on to a family worthy of that status ie the Gamgee-Cotton-Gardeners, with seven times Mayor Samwise being something like a king in his own right.
As I said, I don’t know if Tolkien definitely had this parallel/foreshadowing in mind but it’s a hell of a long play and pay off if he did!
Remember also that Frodo is traumatized, he was but a kid when his parent drowned and rumours circulated about his parents having killed each others. Imagine what hearing those rumours as a mourning kid would do to his psyche. He is "a burned child" which "dreads the fire". He has all the rights to shun relationships.
@ Do you think maybe that could also tie in with the Gaffer’s rebuttal of rumours ?
“There isn’t no call to go talking of pushing and pulling”
That phrase in another context could be applied to the relationship of Aldarion and Erendis, who seem equally responsible for their failed marriage.
I would place the blame more squarely on Aldarion, to be honest.
@@John-Sierra I could never come to a solid conclusion myself. It felt like maybe it was one of those things that could be very heavily one sided depending on which side you as a reader feel most sympathetic towards. But the text/narrator doesn’t really provide a clutch moment to make it definite. It’s a very interesting part in the legendarium though, not least because of its significance in drawing Numenor into the mainland conflict!
Happy Holidays John! What would Bilbo or Frodo do for the holidays?
Eat! The Hobbits had a Yule celebration, and like all of their celebrations, it involved a great deal of eating!. Telling stories, singing songs, and dancing as well.
Thank you , im English 50 , and I find it surprising that people don't realize that fantasy and science fiction where not really considered serious or respectable here until relatively recently , the golden age of science fiction (60s to 80s) was more of an American phenomenon ,
i think i have an explanation for the sauron reaching for isildur instead of hitting him with his mace?
there’s a deleted scene, if you can call it a scene, really a storyboard or two, depicting gil-galad being picked up by sauron and crushed/burned to death in his flaming hands. i remember seeing it in a deleted scene compilation on youtube. (this one, i’m pretty sure th-cam.com/video/4CxqTBTAeBQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=n9_bgBKAHdK9hMYm). but i think it was cut bc it would mean there would need to be extra time spent, not just on that moment, but also extra time spent on setting up gil-galad, i.e showing and mentioning him on screen. perhaps it might have taken away from the real meat and potatoes, the emotion of the king and the kings son narrative in that moment, and also be an unnecessary extravagance considering gil-galad is never really mentioned again after this, kind of also the reason in for cutting glorfindel’s role.
i do think that the inclusion of that scene would have helped explain to audiences why he chose that, and add to characterisation-sauron would prefer to prolong the suffering of his enemies/people he believes have wronged him over efficiency and logic. (and if that character is a númenorean, like isildur is, even more so) i never really thought about it as a child until someone mentioned it as an adult; i kind of just presumed that with being evil, along follows other attributes like short-sightedness, stupidity and again, choosing to long out suffering over the logical thing to do; a bit like how villains give monologues to the captured hero long enough for the deus ex machina to take place rather than just killing them there and then, it’s a type of arrogance, entitlement and cruelty.
Thank you!
You have my algorithm comment
And my axe!
Is there an index anywhere where we could find a list of all questions answered in previous 86 episodes?
I have not created such a thing, but the idea is intriguing. I hadn't bothered because I don't want to get bogged down in "I've already answered that" sort of stuff - I just answer what is interesting each week without worrying about repeating it. I might create one if people are interested, but I want people to not have to worry about searching for a question, they could always just ask.
The description in the Silmarillion of the Easterlings of the First Age certainly doesn't make them sound like ancestors of the Rohirrim: Swarthy Men, short, broad, swart skinned.
That's why I said they had more in common, not that they were literally the same people.
@John-Sierra makes sense. Thanks for the reply, as always!
Is it possible that by eating exclusively Lembas, mortals temporarily take on the physical and spiritual capabilities of elves?
No, but it is believed that mortals who sustain themselves off of Lembas for a long while may wish to become elves - which is nonsense, of course. It didn't happen to Frodo and Sam, for example. Tuor is a bit of a different circumstance, as he is so very unique, but in this case, he had a special destiny plotted out for him.
Reminds me of how Johann Sebastian Bach, constantly by everyone, I'm talking music professors, musicians and just about every composer is referred to a by an objective standard the greatest composer of all time yet he wasn't very well regarded during his time and only became popular thanks to Felix Mendelssohn in the 1800s a number of decades after his death. And more on the Nobel prize, I find it a rather flawed selective process as Einstein never won a Nobel prize himself for neither special or general relativity and then he and Bose never won a prize for the Bose-Einstein condensate so in my option he was worthy of 4 Nobel Prizes including the photo-electric effect which he did win it in. Then there's Alexander Friedman responsible for correcting Einstein and coming up with the Friedman equations which predicted that and how the universe was expanding, the discovery of dark matter was not given a Nobel prize for, there's Emmy Noether who came up with Noether's theorem which is integral for modern physics and then, just this year, the Nobel prize in physics was given to some people working on AI when there was a perfectly good discovery, you know... related to physics.
So Tolkien not winning a Nobel prize really isn't the biggest thing in the world and doesn't make him any worse.
Edit: I would also like to add that it takes time to be nominated, Einstein discovered the photoelectric effect in 1905 and only received the Nobel Prize for it in 1921, for Tolkien, the Lord of the Rings, as you say only became popular in the 1960s which is pretty late in his lifetime so maybe he didn't live long enough for his impact to truely have found its way to the Nobel comity and also there is no such thing as a posthumous Nobel Prize nomination, though I certainly wish that to be the case