Keith Black 572 Hemi build Ep 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2024
- This series is about building a Keith Black aluminum 572 Hemi. In this episode we try to figure out why the heads won't go on, what the cam bearing bores need and continue checking out the block.
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O man I feel your pain. Plus the hole for the oil pump. No way you should be putting up with all that. He should stand up with his product. If he knows it’s bad-- replace it. For 7-8 thousand bucks. Come on. Makes me mad seeing this. Good video though. Good thing we can fix just about everything everybody else does wrong. Just takes up our time. Can’t wait to see the next video. 👍
I agree. Thanks or watching.
Your 100% right.
I’m afraid this kind of machine work could ruin his business and none of us want that. Thanks for watching.
I was going to order a KB block, but I’m not going to now! Tim has to get his quality control under control first!
Yes, it's time to quit pretending everything is fine and fix the problem. Thanks for watching.
Thanks again for your input, Mr. S. My gut says that you're exactly right. Good luck with your block.
Thanks for watching.
Love your video's
Thank you and thanks for watching.
We pay around $12,000 for one of these here in Australia. They'd want to be perfect for that money.
Yes, it would put you in a bad situation if it wasn't perfect. Thanks for watching.
I'm frustrated just watching, I can only imagine your frustration.
It hurts. I love KB blocks. If one gets shipped out that isn’t perfect it makes one of my heroes (Keith Black) look bad. Nobody wants to see one of their heroes look bad. Thanks for watching.
If I understand correctly you have .246 in the head and .250 in the block. If you have a 4 jaw for your lathe could offset the dowels and make it work ? Thanks for making the video. I should drop my BMP block off with you for a similar inspection.
I’m not that good with a 4 jaw. But I got it usable. Thanks for watching.
Your videos are very informative and I love your explanations. So may I ask, what is the best hemi block to get now a days?
Callies is the only steel block and it will need some attention. I’ve never used a Bill Mitchell aluminum block so I can’t make an experienced statement about those. Maybe I should try one. I love the KB but I can’t hardly recommend one to anyone right now unless they have an experienced Hemi guy that they want to pay $100 an hour for a couple days to get it usable. For most people shops like that are nearly impossible to find. How is a normal guy supposed to put one of these together? We need a block that after you pay your $8,000 you get a usable block in the box.
@@rickseeman5679 Thanks you for the information. I would love to build one but I certainly don't want the headaches that you are experiencing.
I know some prctice some dowel pin play (aluminum heads) to avoid cracking. But instal intake manifold and snugging it up, before tightening any of the head bolts. What is your take on this?
I don't get into the kinky/weird/strange stuff. I'm more into building just ordinary flat tappet 426 Hemis. Thanks for watching.
@@rickseeman5679 well glad your videos are more informative...
@@stefansellin7365 Thank you I’m trying to
Has the supplier (Tim) even offered anything in the way of compensation at this point?
You've done all you can (inform them of the problems). You're not the bad guy, Rick.
- Ed on the Ridge
I didn’t bother to call him. My last one was just as bad. Thanks for watching.
@@rickseeman5679 I see. Did he offer anything last time then?
It was common in our shop to grind the dowels to a diamond shape, worked for me.
@@moparedtn no he wouldn’t even send me oil restricters
This is a new company. They’re ironing out details.
They will get their SPC priorities straightened out.
I’ve been working with one of these blocks over the course of a few months.
Is it perfect? No, but I’ve seen lots worse for much more.
So far anything I’ve encountered has been easily rectified.
Dowel pin locations are often trusted in this industry to be where they’re supposed to be. Only problem is a CMM will often state otherwise. Realistically that is a .006” deviation over nearing two feet. That is .003” per side a literal thickness of an hair. All of this on aluminum. Which will expand and contract as noted. They’re fighting post process priorities and thermal expansion is fighting the situation. Modifying the dowel pins themselves will not amount to anything.
The only perfect Hemi blocks that I have ever worked with were billet dry blocks. The rest require some effort.
Stepping outside of the Mopar world into the Ford and Chevrolet performance aftermarket, these issues are mere formalities. It gets much much worse and what’s worse is those companies are solidified and will not lift a finger to rectify anything.
Sleeves slipping. Never a main bore machined to size. Always undersized. China rails a mile long. Crank cases that won’t fit anything. It goes on and on and these companies will tell your that you’re not competent to build engines if you can’t work with it.
Tim answers his phone calls and is all too happy to help.
With the dowel pins off .006" you saw 2 brands of heads that won't go on. They need to be in the right place.
There's not many things easier than drilling a .875" hole for the oil pump to go in.
Cast aluminum expands and contracts much more than we realize. Throw in multiple machining steps and the difference between oversized and undersized is a fine line.
What’s worse is aluminum is extreme abrasive to machine tooling.
Aluminum will seize up to cubic boron nitride. It takes polycrystalline diamond to get any kind of suitable finish. Getting both cbn and pcd bonded to custom tooling can be a struggle for custom machining applications.
Not to say these items are a direct fit in this situation. They’re just examples of the struggles this material brings to the table that will tangle both fit and finish.
I’ve been in the automotive machining trade for 30 plus years. Near 5 years in the NC side of machining.
With conventional automotive machine shop purpose build machines, most every machine can be tram verified with relative ease. Most often these conventional machines are a single process with one reference to go off of that hopefully has been verified then backed up with another reference in some cases.
These expensive CNC machining centers have more complexities built into them than we can realize initially.
Tramming a CNC? Sure, but a coordinate measuring machine would be optimal.
The person operating the machine can be competent and take their time single blocking through each program line. Taking days if not weeks in this case.
So the operator proves each step of the way then turns the machine lose only to figure out that the coolant capacity of the machining center isn’t up to the task over the duration of constant operation. The part gets warm and here we are.
The CNC world can make mountains of work reduced into ant mounds. It can also do the exact opposite before it can be realized.
I watched that oil pump shaft bore situation you encountered and ran out into my shop to check my project. The block I’m machining is fine in that area. I can only imagine that they’re single point machining that bore and the boring bar took they’re using us deflecting when the insert is wearing out.
Point being this is a new company that is trying very hard.
They will get waylaid with unforeseen circumstances like this.
The details I’m encountering are smaller than yours so far.
The points I’m bringing up are only a few mid point in the scheme of details. The worm hole gets much deeper.
Let’s exercise some patience with our on shore manufacturing efforts. They’re subject to many more struggles outside of what we can realize.
@@hughobrien4139 I have patience. But the #1 cam bore and #1 main bore is staring you right in the face. It would be easy to check. If it's wrong, you have to ask yourself why, and fix the problem. It would be easy to miss the dowel pins, but if you found out they were wrong, you should investigate and make the fix. If the crank won't go in, and the cam won't go in, and the heads won't go on, that might make the customer buy something else. And if that happens it won't be good for anybody involved. Carl Benz and John Deere (very successful men) had roughly the same motto. "I want to make it as good as I can."
I find all of this very strange.
The one item I found with the project I’m working on was to be corrected by my specifications.
I simply emailed them and informed them what I had found and that it was no big deal just figured they would appreciate the feedback and possibly correct it.
They offered to replace it instantly. I deferred. I was to be machining that part in any event.
I’m am a nobody machinist with a small home based shop that may never build another one of these engines.
Still yet Mr. Banning has treated me and my inquiries with the utmost respect and patience.
There is something amiss with this situation.
@@hughobrien4139 Yes, there is something amiss. And you saw the issues. Remember, I only bought this block because the other new one I got, I didn't want to fix all the problems with it. Now I'm out $16,000 and what I have is more problems. I have Bill Mitchell's phone number and a VISA card, but I'm trying not to use it. Keith Black was one of my heros and that's what I want to buy.
What is the product you are going to apply to the engine cam bearings? Green locktite?
No. Permatex 24163 cleaner and 64040 sleeve retainer
@rickseeman5679 awesome, thank you for the reply.
I have a Bill Mitchell block, and the heads just dropped right on with no drama...I was a little disappointed with some of the things they did on my block, but I didn't have that problem, and mine came with oil restrictors so maybe I shouldnt be so bummed.
@@duanedahl8856 maybe I should try one
Tim’s suppose to be making them better but seems to me ther not if I was you I’d go strait to Tim I’m sure he would listen to you ther suppose to be making them better than KB DID SO ID TALK TO HIM ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS MY BUDDY TOOK ONE BACK HE WASNT HAPPY WITH IT HE WENT RIGHT TO FLORIDA WITH THE BLOCK HE HAS TWO OR THREE OF THEM