Narcissistic, Psychopathic, Or Borderline Abuse?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Watch yesterday’s video Narcissistic Abuse: 21 Signs You’ve Recovered, Healed, Moved On • Narcissistic Abuse: 21...
In the 1990s, I coined the phrase “narcissistic abuse” to describe a subtype of abusive behavior that was all-pervasive (across multiple areas of life) and involved a plethora of behaviors and manipulative or coercive techniques. Narcissistic abuse differed from all other types of abuse in its range, sophistication, duration, versatility, and express and premeditated intention to negate and vitiate the victim’s personal autonomy, agency, self-efficacy, and wellbeing.
Sadistic abuse (dark tetrad)
NARCISSISTIC
All-pervasive
Driven by phases of shared fantasy
Aims to negate the victim, convert her into the idealized internal object (coercive snapshotting)
Recovery via separation-individuation
PSYCHOPATHIC
Domain-specific and criminal
Driven by power and control
Aims to accomplish goals
Recovery via the legal system
BORDERLINE
Coercive (external regulation)
Driven by anxieties
Part of the repetition compulsion
Recovery by mirroring (rendering oneself unfit and unsafe to act as external regulator)
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I accidentally did the boderline mirroring. I was always their rock giving neverending reassurance and safe base, until I myself was going through some emotional hardships. All of the sudden the dynamic changed and I was avoided and ghosted, it is painful to be constantly needed only to be discarded when my own need arose, but it ironically set me free from them. Never play the games of disturbed people. It's not your job to save them from themselves, because you will drown with them. You have value and integrity. Stay with those who truly see you as you are. Be your own palace of peace and invite those who are worthy of you and that peace. Geh mit liebe und lass die wahrheit dich leiten
3 Weeks ago i done exactly the same, prior to that after all the arguments and repeated questions to my StBexW of 10 years why she was still with me when she was so unhappy i temporarily made my self cash poor, it then took two weeks for her to block me and send the police to confirm the no contact she had now put in place, I GOT MY ANSWER
@@Kauzi108 currently going through this, with my bf of 4yrs. Only difference is whenever I’m struggling with something (loss, family health), I’m supported for around 24hrs before a fight is started. It’s the last thing I have energy for, but is guaranteed to happen.
Does anyone else go through this?
I had a 10 year relationship that destroyed every semblance of who I was, and I was quite successful. He even convinced me to send him drugs to Iraq where he works with a top secret clearance. Trying to figure out what personality disorder he is and what’s wrong with me, where the cracks were.
When the imperative is to abandon and completely screw someone over suddenly I'd say that's borderline psychotic, the ideal is there, in a transcending phenomenon within their personal psychology, regardless; Products desire, thought disorders, and pathologic release. It can be a close partner, or even a small group of people you never met you grew up with.
YES. UGGH. Exactly @@PsychoPranx
Yeah bpd/npd abuse differs, i had the sadistic borderline, it completely rewires your mind, the 12 yr relationship is over with the diagnosed borderline, in therapy, im so damaged, but the truth is i was damaged before i met the borderline, cause no one with a shred self esteem, self worth, self preservation , would spend 12yrs in the toxic psychotic dance for 12 long , painful, yrs, conclusion , it feels normal to be abused, sexually aroused also, my childhood trauma made me for the borderline,
But no more, enough death! Enough lies!
Being alone forever is better than being with these psychopaths, thank God i finally know that in my deepest soul.
Ahh, i get it now! The last time I looked at the DSM-5 lying wasn't a trait of Narcissistic personality disorder. I never understood why? But, as stated in this video, the Narcissist doesn't gaslight or future fake. Lying is a psychopathic trait, now I understand 👍👍👍👍
Wrong. The narcissist gaslit and future fake to keep his or her sources of supply if needed. Many just do it by instinct.
Having listened attentively for years, which I am very grateful for, I am still unable to reach a conclusion.
The person (self-diagnosed as a psychopath) had clear narcissistic patterns in close relationships. Sadism was present as well (seeking sadistic supply by bullying for hours, to his clear enjoyment). In relation to society, he seemed to meet the criteria for ASPD, with a long history of criminality and violence, no remorse, irresponsibility, chronic boredom, defiance, lying and cheating etc. He mostly rejected human interaction, not seeming to need narcissistic supply.
At the same time, he mostly lived a life of drunken fantasy and glorification of a rather sordid past. He was rarely invested in the present, having grandiose plans but doing little or nothing to achieve them, year after year. He would engage in a "moving far away" scenario almost weekly, planning to leave but never leaving, like a teenager. It was all about him going through the process. He would repeat the phases of the shared fantasy like an automaton, for no obvious reason. He was extremely chaotic and self-sabotaging, as opposed to goal-oriented. In relation to the abuse, I would therefore say it was narcissistic. What gives me pause was the one lie that he was dying, in order to end the relationship; it was cold and calculated.
Because that's more like a psychopath.
Read Le Psycopath.
Watch videos from forensic psychologists who work with diagnosed Psychopaths.
They aren't super humans. Even if they have an high iq they lack self regulation in behaviour or emotional control almost entirely. They are blank slates out of the womb permanently almost.
Psychopaths were originally claimed to be "insanity without delirium or Psychosis" and so they are outwardly, sane and self aware, but extremely impulsive to their behaviours.. the definition of lost souls.
They also are extremely grandiose, but not needing it bolstered by others opinions of them, they are entirely a self contained Grandiosity and dreaming machine.
Goal Oriented behaviour isn't constant. Imagine emotional, drives like sexual or hunger, as slow building tension that needs a release, this causes a slow build up of tension that is lashed out on whoever is close by or whatever they can get their hands on. Without any empathy, and if they never practiced or had to learn high cognitive empathy/theory of mind, they are unable to control anything.
Narcissism is not the same. It's so much more self pushing forward due to how they need supply, it's so much more pro social...
Yes, yes, yes this is true about going back in time and it's intoxication. ONLY NO Contact is the way for myself to grow. Period.
No wonder you call it a deficit, they all want something they don't have from everyone else. That was a good video and so good because of the content, i know its important and there are pro's and con's to everything in this but it was hard to listen to as well. Thanks again Dr Vaknin
I am watching this on July 5th, 2024 and Sam just said "yesterday was July 4th" and I had to double check that it was from a year ago. So weird and ironic. Lol
So, "he" is either a psychopathic narcassist or narcissistic psychopath. Clear episodes of gaslighting, future faking, and coercive control, but is a loner and early during the love bombing phase, he created a shared fantasy. The abuse was in all areas of the relationship.
Sounds like we were dating the same person ☹️
Hello Dr. Vaknin! You are saving my life with my videos. I have BPD, I have to get to my job in 2 hours, and sometimes I just need to hear your voice in order to break out of my mind. Thank you for talking to us. xo
Me too
Me too
And me...
If you haven't already, watch "Borderline's Life is Worth Living." It's like he has been inside the Borderline's mind, and mapped it out. 😉
@@breemorrison901 Okay thank you so much!!
I love the bits of humor mixed in with your content it makes learning from you so approachable
Gollum! 😂
What is it when someone laughs at you when you are scared/shocked? Like my ex was hiding in the wardrobe after i asked him to leave, i went to the bathroom two hours later and i saw him in the mirror, hiding in the fkn wardrobe! He laughed when he saw my reaction.
This is sadism. Get a protection order
@@natashafordyce925 runnin for my life!
I'm still confused 😢 He definitely love bombed me, did so much of the narc stuff but now it sounds like a psycho path cuz of the quick discard. He said there would be no hoovering- I had brief one 2 wks after but I've been no contact (everything blocked) for 6.6 months. Maybe he's narcissist/ psychopath 😂
What happens if the abuser is both a psychopath and a narcissist?
All psychopaths are narssitic, not all narcissts are psychopathic .
No darling. Stop repeating this. Narcs are egomanical. Ppaths are egocentric. Ppaths have objective physical signs that can be measured on examination.
Easier said than done to escape a narcissist or psychopath when you have BPD. How does someone with BPD heal both themselves, and from being with another abuser?
I’m in the same boat.. I have BPD and just can’t seem to REALLY leave a (male) with malignant BPD (BPD w/aspd). The relationship has been absolutely insane…
Very informative as always. Still struggling to quite understand which pd my previous bf had though I think psychopath doesn’t fit as he was very social and believed (or so he said) in teamwork. It’s still the hyper focus on a goal (and using victims to reach that goal) that still makes me question although I suppose the npd facet would mean that goal was an important part of the fantasy. Always makes me think deeply, thanks.
Now I am confused, because from all you lectures here on TH-cam. I had come to the conclusion that my estranged husband was a vulnerable sadistic narcissist but you said narcissists do not use gaslighting or future faking. He used these amongst others through out our 21 year relationship. So this would be mean is a psychopath. But he is seeking to destroy me not take something specific from me since our relationship ended. Also he after 22 months and a lot of work his Narrative still dominates my perception of myself and my actions. I am still working incredibly hard to rewrite this, alongside other repairing other aspects of myself, but am struggling. I was also manipulated to met his needs over the years and abandon my own and others. When I did try to met other needs even the childrens he was incredibly jealous and would fake illness or create some immediate need. If this was not met he would then employ the abuse tactics again. Silent treatment, belittling, gaslighting, the list goes on. The only time I was physically abused is when he needed his sexual needs met or I had asked him to meet the childrens needs the one time I directly asked him to meet my needs and I held the boundary he nearly ended my life. He was a shell acting out, no emotion. Until he had ended his assault and had a grin on his face. I would see this grin repeatedly over our relationship when he inflicted and emotional or physical damage to me or the children.
He could be a psychopathic (malignant) narcissist.
@@samvakninmy ex was also future faking: telling me she wants kids and get married.
Using this and lot of sex to get from me what she wants. Basically I was her servant.
She lives in a fantasy world and is convinced she is a genius
@@samvaknin Thankyou for your reply. That makes sense a lot more. The big question is there a likelihood he will even stop in his pursuit to try and destroy me and control me. He is nearly 2 years on with limited legal contact trying his best, under the guise he is the victim and I am the narcissist. He has been denied direct contact with our children, I know he has no real interest in them from past experience, but is still trying to seek contact but constantly demanding we as parents need to communicate healthily to ‘work things out’. He still threatens, harasses us routinely but more so when we are going through court hearings etc. he has no regard for the law, non-molestation orders, bail conditions etc but is getting clever about it as time goes on. He blames police and other agencies that have been involved into manipulating me into having no contact etc and it is everyone’s fault except his that our relationship is over. In fact I don’t think he perceives it as over at all.
Thankyou again, you have helped so much to help me understand and come to terms with my past relationships including my parents, to enable me to start moving forward. I have a better understanding of what I need to work on within myself.
I would like to know more about recovering from BPD abuse, I feel like you described being discarded. it’s seems like I’m stuck with the pain of being discarded, How do we regain ourselves?
Why not all of the above🤷♂️...hang on, why did my mind start flashing images of Feminism.
I've always been fascinated by human behavior I love the way you articulate all the different types I also must admit that I kind of have a crush on you I find you very attractive there's nothing sexier than intelligent man but I'm also very aesthetically attracted you're very handsome I'm sure you know that but unlucky woman tickets to be with you thank you for turning my brain on to have my brain feed makes my heart smile peace love and light to you from San Antonio Texas ☮️☯️💟✌🏻🙏💋💯
Hi Mishell, since Professor Vaknin hasn't replied yet, I just wanted to say I've always believed that ontology recapitulates phylogeny.
Do narcissists raise borderlines?
Search the From Child to Narcissist playlist.
John Donne
Nothing but men of all and venom things doth work upon ITSELF with inborn sting.
Oh, self traitor I do bring the spider love
Thanks for explaining these three types. Think I am beginning to understand the difference between these people. Still a way to go but getting there.
Thanks you ! I Tany from Russia boter....
That was an excellent informative and precise breakdown between characteristics thank you for this. :);)
Its amazing how exactly presice this is
Thank you so much Dear Professor Sam Vaknin. ❤
I looked at the ability of my partner to be able to transition so easily as a plus. In actuality I have seen many traits as a bonus until they get turned on me. I've been in this rodeo many times and it was time to get off for a true benefit of myself. Maybe another day I'll ride Professor and I'll have that bottle of wine and jar of hair gel for you.
Can someone be all 3? Psychopath npd and bpd?
Yes.
Thank you for the statement of choosing .Each knows their own situation .Jusice always brings peace. One . Must believe the system works .Thank you.
thanks for the video Prof Vaknin, can someone be narc and border at same time?
Yes. It is called comorbidity.
hi i've b😢watching your videos and i also have therapist first im 54 my mom abused my childhood life then i reunited with my adult daughter 35 ive discovered that sharing her image of what she didn't have of me my daughter and mother both would outburst of anger its left me truly family less i've restored my soul in the vision of videos that are made by you i want to know if i should get grandparents rights or what i should do my daughter bpd my son in law narcissistic 5 children 9 years together and sadly i feel that i have to leave everyone i can if its the best thank you
מאוד אהבתי את הסרטון 💓תודה מכל הלב
Thank you for educating me understand ever word you sre saying.
Do Borderlines gaslight? My wife's mother or rather my ex mother-in-law has insinuated that my ex-wife has deep psychological issues, but never really told me what they were, only that she has tried repeatedly to get her to go to a therapist to no avail. When I divorced her after hiring a private investigator to catch her in her infidelities, she - the mother- in-law that is - told me to "choose happiness," essentially informing me with a hug and understanding that happiness would never be found with my wife. Towards the end of our relationship, I had a serious surgery that compromised me. Although better know, that's when things really got out of hand with her. I had so many personal problems that I was clearly not the so-called Rock she needed. However, upon checking some of her history in the search engine, I happened upon evidence that she was actually reading up on "how to gaslight." Literally an instruction manual of how to do this. She was also going to hotels using an alias, which her mother said she had used before. So it all fits - the borderline diagnoses. However, one thing was not addressed was whether or not Borderlines would actually research and engage in intention gaslighting???? This makes me think more along the lines of psycopathy or narcissism, but I'm not certain. What do you think?
Borderlines lie and gaslight.
Your wife’s mother sounds like a nut bag.
The more i hear you the better my understanding.Thank you Sir.
I have a suggestion for you. I haven't seen any talks given on a covert/vulnerable narcissist dating a malignant narcissist. Personally, one played the role of my best friend and the other played the roll of my woman. The covert was the woman/ child.
I have a suggestion for you, too: search this channel.
@@samvaknin Im following your suggestion Professor, could you further explain the dynamics of cover Narc and BPD? why their are drawn to each other? I remember you saying their are kinda a perfect match, Would be possible to educate us more about that, thank you in advance for your help.
I don't understand the concept of punative justice. Or how mirroring can be part of recovery, given it makes recovery dependant on the abuser.
I would love to avoid my borderline ex but she has some of my things at her house. She said she would return it soon but has not done anything at all to return the stuff. I cannot understand why she would want to keep my things
Early 40s and its the first time I hear someone describe how I feel, an utter child that has been treated like one for too long. No more.
Which one of these do you believe are curable and which do you believe are not?
I believe I used to have BPD and after a lot of nervous system regulation, inner child and attachment healing no longer identify with those behaviors.
Watch the videos in the therapies playlist.
What if my abuser has aspects of all three of these?
Excellent lecture!thank you!
Only Vaknin has been convincing in explaining the differences and common misconceptions attributed to the cluster b personality traits. It can be incredibly confusing from other sources to the point where someone who was subject to abuse might actually think because they developed a few traits to survive that they were the only source of the problem.
My girlfriend of 3 years, wife of 4 months, has i think bpd, when we started going out, she actually sat me down and showed me a video of bpd. Told me about her childhood all of the traumas etc. I shouldve broken it off right there and then. I really liked her for being so honest and genuine.
So gradually she started consuming my inside, small mistakes were always seen as my major character flaws, she got pregnant, was supposed to be on birth control, got it removed but didnt let me know (i know it’s her body but still…i’ve always said it was too late for me to become a father, maybe she did it on purpose to keep me tied down, is that possible?) anyways her pregnancy was a nightmare, im sure i’ve played my part in making her miserable, but she always isolated herself by saying smt negative about the potential friends or my relatives, so she can stay alone eventually isolate me too, it was really hard for me too comfort her because she’d so many times said she wants to leave me because im not good enough for her…actually way before she got pregnant, one day she kept calling at work to argue i said “ok im actually tired of your behaviour im breaking up with you” over the phone. She tried to commit suicide because of that, didnt answer her phone when i called so i got scared, on the way home i’d called 911, i got there 1,2 mins before the first responders showed up at my house, found her crying loud and hysterically in the closed with her robe belt wrapped around her neck “attempting”. They took her away for a few days treated her, i picked her up, this incident then became one of her weapons to attack me on daily basis. Fast forward, we become parents to our beautiful son (im very happy and love my son so much). Her negative, constant accusations, blaming me and others for her shortcomings or bad lucks in life never ended in fact gotten more and more frequent (although, i didnt think her life was that bad at all, seemed like all was going in right direction, loving boyfriend, still studying, became a mother to a beautiful son, financially we’re good, live in a nice house, after birth we’ve continued our bedroom life uninterrupted, my business was making big sales, didnt really have much to worry about anything but our own drive to move forward and achieve more (meaning all was within our especially her life was within her control!). My mother came from overseas moved in with us, that’s when her behavour started becoming more physical and more aggressive towards me. From crying, throwing things, yelling randomly at me to throwing hard objects at me such as her phone, shove me, kick me while in bed etc. a lot of biting, some days better than others but the frequency is definitely closer and closer. Ultimately, she full on beat me up in my garage, i cant escape her behavour, she would block me from leaving the bedroom, block my car, if i manage to leave she would look for me with my infant son in the dark, disturbing scenes, her accusations started to become so real as if i actually i did those, called police on me saying im emotionally abusing her etc, so just 2 weeks ago she tortured me for 1.5 hour while our son was sleeping in the same room, pulled on my ears, sunk in her nails into arms, bit my upper eye lid, hit my heart while i was laying down, bent my neck until it really hurts, and threw a phone at me etc…the phone hit my son, that was the last thing i needed, so i’ve had to get her arrested for domestic violence, she fought me for my phone, but i managed to ran downstairs and locked myself in the guest restroom to call 911. She was screaming while holding our 1 year old son, again extremely disturbing and haunting.
Anyways this is what i am dealing with in the past 10 days. My son, my mom my 2 dogs are all with me. I cant be with her, im keeping my son for his safety, last thing i want is to see him gets damaged and have a horrible painful life with her mother. I’ve tried to help her, get her to see a therapist all the time but she completely forgot or disconnected her from past, childhood traumas, now all her blame is on me, im the monster that made her with my amotional abuse…i broke down and in tears countless of times especially in the past 10 days. She tried to get me arresred for kidnapping, she called everyone we know telling them i have a girlfriend etc. my son is really cheerful and hasnt been moody at all lately, one of dogs had lost 4 lbs in the last 1 month and both of my dogs are currently staying at a boarding place, they looked really stressed but i had no choice but to send them away for now. I havent had a full night’s sleep in a very long time,but im getting better by the day now. Blocked her number, shes been emailing me all sorts of things, saying im inhumane for doing this etc. She never genuinely asked for my forgiveness. She thinks her behavour is justified. Anyways she now might have a criminal record, divorce is on the way, im fighting with all my might to keep my son away from her, also she needs to move out of my house. Hopefully she gets the help she needs and move on with her life but not make someone else go thru this horror movie type of experience. i have a lot to do in the next however many days and months. She’s constantly trying to me feel like im the evil, im the evil for separating mother and son. Wish me luck and pray for her!
i think im doing the right by my son and for myself. It’s been painful but deep down i know it’s the right thing to do and im not going stay in this relationship and destroy my son’s life, if im not around she’ll abuse my son.
is this a clear case of bpd?
Men... what a story. This sounds like a classic BPD story... I didn't have a kid with my ex, but overall, it's I had a similar experience. Hope you are doing well
@@markhendriks9050 things are better, dealing with the consequences such as lawyer fees which has surpassed 20k. my son is with me, mom sees him 1 night a week. thank you
Dr. Vaknim please make a video analyzing witch craft Irecntly came across a book by Jacob Grinberg on this Mexican witch Pachuca ya and claimed to perform miracles and all seemed a shared fantasy please your wisdom on the subject is necessary
Vaknin. Search the channel for the keyword gurus.
@@samvaknin I feel special Dr. Vaknim koans I exist
@@JoseCastro-f7xit’s “Vaknin”
Thank you Dr Vaknin for your video. I love when you do a topic and cover NPD and BPD to allow for a compare and contrast.
Question: i had a relationship with a BPD. You said you heal from a BPD by mirroring them. This will allow the BPD to leave you as you will appear to lack the stability needed to carry out the ego function a BPD want to pass onto their significant other. I don't how this will allow me to recover though. It will simply allow the BPD to move on and certainly hive me the firat step to recovery but the trauma is still there. Thank you