Natasel Sergei (spelling?) was described as more attractive than Strahd, but more than that he was described as kind and empathetic to people of lower class. So like all in all he was hot, nice, and in Tatiana’s age demographic while Strahd was okay looking, ruthless, and old enough to be Tatiana’s father if he started early. Plus Strahd only like Tatiana because she is the concept of youth personified, even more so now that she gets reborn and dies young forever.
Strahd Is like a Green dragon, at first he seems sophisticated and cultured, even charming but sooner or later you Will realise that he Is indeed no more but a monster
Strahd is like this: Paladins will tell you that the Devil is a goat hoofed grotesque monster with bulls horns. But the poor homeless fuckers on the street that met the Devil could tell you the truth. The Devil looks like a human gentleman, wears an immaculate suit with a red tie and the most charming presence possible. He is the classy gentleman with a charming smile as he convinces you to sign your life and firstborn son away. A man of culture indeed!
@@nerdyguygamer In most d and d worlds the more chaotic and beastly aspects of evil are represented by demons whereas the lawful charismatic ones are the devils, Asmodeus current ceo of the nine hells Is literally described as the most handsome devil. The moral Is run for the hills and pray your New home doesnt become a battlefield for the cosmic forces
As John Wick (the game designer) said, "Strahd was a player character. A player character with a really brutal GM. A GM who gave him everything he ever wanted… except one thing. That one thing was the only thing the GM said, “You can’t have this.” And it drove Strahd mad."
Honestly, the fact that Strahd never really got any meaningful thing that he truly wanted was why he turned out that way. He was a man who dedicated himself to duty for forty years, only to find that the rewards he reaped from that duty weren't the satisfying and fulfilling things he'd been promised they would be for all that time. And then he saw his brother about to follow down the same basic path, and couldn't help but relate and sympathize even as he felt helpless to stop Sergei from repeating his mistakes. And then Sergei DIDN'T repeat those mistakes -- he threw away duty for the things that truly mattered to him. At one point, he literally described Sergei as being '[himself] as [he] should have been'. Strahd couldn't handle seeing the way his life could've gone, seeing somebody else make all the right choices he wishes he'd made, particularly since it was 'far too late' (in his mind) to make those same good choices. It was never about 'Tatyana is the one thing I want', it was about 'Tatyana represents everything I ever wanted and of which I feel robbed'.
@@thefairybug40 This is such an accurate observation. I would even go as far as to say that Strahd suffered from a serious PTSD in the aftermath of 30 years of war. He was but 15 year old when he was thrust onto a battlefield. That is not a thing to do to a boy who should still be enjoying his childhood. There was no time for love during his military campaign, and the only friend he had made was Alek Gwylim. Or, more accurately said, Alek kind of adopted the princeling and served as a surrogate elder brother to him. Even if Alek's presence helped, Strahd was shaped primarily by war. His family was practically lost to him. Letters don't make up for a hug or a kiss in the hair, or any other expression of affection between parents and their son, or between siblings for that matter. So yes, his life largely lacked experiences which actually make a life worth living. No wonder that he felt so lost and robbed of time when the decades of conquest ended at last. I also don't see Tatyana as an innocent character. Strahd, having fallen in love for the first time in his life, was doing all that he could to woo her and she would have had to be blind not to recognize that he was trying to court her. She simply chose his younger brother because Sergei was half Strahd's age and also came without any burden of responsibility, which suited her own impulsive nature. The couple didn't have a single duty in Barovia; all the weight of ruling the land and making tough decisions was once again up to Strahd to carry alone. Thus, the Dark Powers found him at his most vulnerable, nearly defenseless. His iron will had been worn thin.
@@ciarandwynvil273 I'm sorry, not to create conflict but how does that make Tatyana "not innocent"? If anything, dating Strahd would be the less innocent choice since the only reason would be the gifts and political power.
@@zoboothemafoo In my view, Tatyana isn't innocent because she didn't openly tell Strahd that she didn't have any tender feelings for him and because she was perfectly happy to receive his gifts and money nonetheless. In other words, she took an advantage of him. It was so painfully obvious that he was courting her. She was already in love with Sergei, so she knew well enough the signs of a man's interest in a woman, which is why she couldn't claim not to know that Strahd's affection for her was of the romantic nature. She was a girl who came to live in his castle and liked the luxury he lavished on her. And at the same time, she didn't want any responsibility to come with it. She strung him along, and it ended up badly for all involved. If anyone was entirely innocent in that fateful triangle, it was Sergei.
Strahd is a great character because he is an inversion of a sympathetic character, a monster who believes himself a tragic hero, but whose situation is in fact purely of his own making. However, he believes he is the hero of his own story, and actually has motivations beyond simply serving as an obstacle to the PCs, which makes him much better than most D&D villains imo.
@Southern Shinobi Now I wanna do a Curse of Strahd campaign where Castle Ravenloft is now Raven Corporation, a megacorperation that controls Barovia and it's people.
Interestingly, the quality you've just described is one of the hallmarks of a Gothic Horror story. A perfect example is Victor Frankenstein, who, after defying the laws of nature and the will of god to create a monster, promptly abandons his creation in a world that knows only how to hate and fear it. The monster goes on to kill everyone he loves, directly as a result of Victor's own actions in each instance, and Victor still dies thinking he was a victim of circumstance and a tragic hero. The PROBLEM with curse of strahd is that the PLAYERS aren't playing through a gothic horror story, STRAHD is.
Can you elaborate? What’s the goal from the dm point of view and what can you expect from players in general? Also why didn’t davy’s players not write they wanted to go home ?
I'm pretty sure they all did write they wanted to leave. Strahd tried to give them hope just to destroy that hope a few minutes later. That scene was brilliantly played.
@@TheJPKaram it's a mind game. He offers you something, and then snatches it away. Giving you just enough hope that you can make it, and then showing you how futile it is to hope. One feature davvvy forgot to mention, but was the true genius in showing how evil Strahd is, is that he told us only one could leave, the others had to stay. So when it came out that some of us would doom our friends for a chance to escape, it started to fracture party trust. This is key in showing how manipulating he is as a villain, and setting up the game to actually be a horror themed adventure. Once you strip away your ability to trust in anything, you start to really fear for your character.
As soon as my players found the Tome of Strahd and learned of his backstory, all of them started calling him an incel, it was hilarious. They fully understand how he got there, but they rightly have no sympathy for him.
Strahd is basically every self-absorbed incel manchild who takes their misery at not gaining everything they feel entitled to out on those around them. He even lives in his own little miniature realm where he tortured people as toys just to feed his power trip.
Strahd story is like a tragic tale but not for strahd for everyone around him for strahd it's a comedy or a drama which only he finds funny or compelling
@@Mgauge no, this is wrong on both accounts. Those people you’re describing don’t scratch what strahd is and the comparison both demonizes people not nearly as bad as strahd and softens an actual sociopath.
It's a tragedy in the truest sense, everyone suffers, ultimately for nor nos reason other than one man not being able to deal with his emotions. He's tragic in the sense that if he could just take two seconds to think "is what I'm doing really the best way to deal with my feelings?" He might realise just how pointless his actions are. But then again, vampires can't see their own reflections can they?
He acts like he is a Sympathetic person many times because he believes he is deserves Sympathy after all he did nothing wrong in his mind all of this is just unjust punishment for his love. He is delusional by choice unwilling to see what he did he believes all the evil he does is justified even if he would cause the death of Tatiana (lightening bolt from the sky she got caught up in9 he will not see it as his fault it was the pcs because they would not bring her to him to deliver both of them into their salvation after Her death he just started attacking the People he deemed to be responsible the PCs luckily they were close to ready to face him
To paraphrase Samara from Mass Effect 2: "That make [him] a tragic character, not a sympathetic one". A sad backstory and nice cheekbones doesn't excuse eating people.
@Natasel I imagine his crying goes along the lines of "why couldn't you just let me have her? You didn't have to die, if only you'd let me have her" Basically he blames Sergei for his own actions
A sympathetic villian is Mr. Freeze from the 90's batman cartoon. Mr. Freeze starts off as a bad guy, however, he dosen't go out of his way to hurt anybody intentionally except Batman and Robin (who just so happen to be in his way), then the next time you see him, he's an edgey anti-hero, the in the made for tv movie he was in, he slowly but surely became an actual hero before retiring. Strahd, however; lacks any redeeming qualities that would humanize him (Mr. Freeze, for example, actually cares about people, he already got the girl, he just wanted to bring her back to life and couldn't cope with her death, he dosen't want to see people he barely knows suffer, etc.) Strahd dosen't have any of those redeeming qualities, hell, he has zero redeeming qualities. If I ever run Ravenloft, I'm going to make Strahd an asshole to them so they don't feel bad for killing him, even as he monologues while bleeding out.
@@Neutral_Tired I imagine it being all crocodile tears, he knows where the players are headed, so he goes there to make a scene, pretending to have redeeming qualities. And when a player tries to comfort him, he stops pretending to be sad and socks whoever tried comforting in him in the face before mocking them.
It’s the twisted assumption that a monstrous villain is somehow redeemable by the “right” person. Just like so many terrible teen romance books designed to make young girls feel like they will get a special, powerful, dark boyfriend “bad boy” who will totally never harm them because they are “special” to him.
@Natasel Would be an interesting twist if as he was crying he started laughing..... and then gloating about his brother looked as he was dying, before walking away laughing maniacally as he declares that he will win this time that Tatiana *Will* be his this time...
Strahd really is the best example to use for a vampire's "Dark desires" where their feelings morph into a more twisted version...just so happens that his desires were already twisted so the twist just got twistier
@Natasel The fear of death and taxes, the one thing that could turn any successful man into Strahd. Party: this is the end strahd, prepare for death monster! Strahd: I don't have time to die, I'm too busy! Now get off my lawn!
Just look at Loki from the MCU. He has LEGIONS of fangirls. Get an handsome guy with charisma and power, add a total sociopath and murderer, and basically half the female population will line up to "fix him"...
@cak01vej Certainly doesnt help that Mercer gave the titular Stahd a voice likeness in a VOD campaign also here on TH-cam somewhere (think it was on D&D Beyond or the official D&D channel or somewhere close) during that introduction scene, so its even *more* powerful as of late.
I remember playing Ravenloft with my online table, and when we read his diary we all had to laugh at how he essentially a "nice guy" writing emo poetry. we read his shitty poems to him as we killed him.
My party ended in a very peculiar relationship with Strahd. You see the dm of my party had actually introduced us to the Strahd very early on but as the traveling performer Rondo. We didn't know anything about who he really was. I particularly held on to this npc as it was one of the few ones who liked the character I was using. So when I had to make a new one I asked if my new character(Valafar) and Rondo could be friends.(again, unknowingly) He said yes. Which then dramatically shifted Strahd's nature. Taking that same sociopathic nature and applying it to the idea of "I must protect my friend" as our party was trying to free the current reincarnation of his love, and he was trying to stop us without harming Valafar or revealing himself to be Rondo.
@@redzgaming6880 an anime. Basically it's a battle royale in modern society where each participant has a diary that can give them hints about the future. One of the characters has a really creepy attraction to the main character which *minor spoiler* leads to her at one point tying him up in a basement so he won't get killed by the other participants and keeping him all for herself, against his will.
Future Diary is kinda a bad example for Strahd considering that Yuki and Yuno's romance completely works out and they both go to insane lengths to be together by the end of it. Really it would support Strahd's insane fascination for his love more than anything else.
My brain read the title as “strad’s not sympathetic, he's just a simp.” I think I’m this case both the actual title of the video and brain fart title read are valid strad’s a simp.
@@uriel7395 I do not thing he has issues like being celibate, he just cannot accept he is a bad match for the one he really likes/obsesses over. He did occasionally take other lovers
When I was playing this campaign the DM made strahd obsessed with every one of the female party members only to leave and move to the next one once they showed they can fight back to show that hes obsessed with obsession rather then Tatiana or anyone else
@Natasel in order Vivianna the paladin of the love goddess wanted to help him with romance but because she assumed she was strahd's equal he through her out a window and off the cliff Benoch had to high wisdom to be charmed so again came to strahd as an equal and told him he could be happy if he left this castle behind and joined her in the wilds, struhd killed her And finally Maria the vampiric blood hunter struhd tried to use a "we are both monsters only I understand you" argument but Maria hates her vampirism so immediately attacked him with her silver chain whip
This feels entirely too biographical. Not autobiographical, but definitely like "I've had this unending conversation with the same insufferable person for the past 6 years, please help me!"
Reading the prequel novel, I Strahd: Memoirs of a Vampire, really does tie together what kind of character Strahd is and why he doesn't deserve sympathy. Before the whole Tatyana/Serge diabolical, Strahd was a stern military commander who became Lord overnight, he killed multiple Burgermeisters across Barovia in front of their villages for the sake of sending the message that he won't be nearly as lenient as the prior Lord. As far as we are concerned with Strahd's backstory, this is him at his moral peak and it's all downhill from there. Fifty years after becoming a Vampire, he spared a Monk only because one of his comrades in his life was a Cleric. That's the last time he does something "kind" without being manipulative, and the events of Curse of Strahd takes place 300-400 years after that. He's a great villain, but an awful person. Interesting villains don't have to be sympathetic.
@@markcarpenter6020 I agree. Strahd is still a very interesting character. After posting the original comment, I ended up reading "War with Azalin", which pitches Strahd as a lesser of two evils in a conflict. It was very interesting to see Strahd having to properly fill the shoes of a leader and cobble up an army out of inexperienced Barovian guards and mercenaries.
My DM made him so deliciously and emotionally evil, which just made us have so much fun with him as a villain while having NO compassion for him. It was fantastic!
I have decided that Strahd is flat out evil during one of my first d&d playthroughs. My character was a Wood elf who due to personal experiences with racism has decided to take every chance to defend his elven brethren and has become that which he seeks to destroy (a racist, especially against humans). Part way through we actually learned about the dusk elves of berovia. They had once been a complete people until Strahds "love" had been reborn as a Dusk elf and for some reason was actually on board with hooking up with the creeper. Her brother was not down with that and killed her so that she wouldn't marry Strahd. In response, Strahd killed every single dusk elf female so that they would eventually die off with the passage of time. He did that instead of just killing the brother.
That's not quite right. Patrina was stoned to death by the dusk elves, instigated by her brother Kasimir. Strahd had Rahadin kill all the female dusk elves as punishment. Still despicable.
Strand is less supposed to be good and supposed to be tragic. He did do it too himself but his story like many stories in the whole Ravenloft book is tragic, most of the stories are tragic or horrific or heartbreaking. An inventor fell/became friends with a body snatcher and did everything to save them only to go mad in the end and want to take back what they used to save them. A Cinderella esque character was lied too so much and betrayed by those lies that she took over a land making it so any false people or liars die. A woman wanted to save her people and village but when her dragon mentor said no she accidentally killed him when only trying to steal from him and caused herself to be trapped forever when the thing that was supposed to save her and her people betrayed her. They are all very tragic but in the end they aren’t meant to be seen as good or redeemable. These people are cruel, evil, and dangerous. They’ve lived long lives causing pain and suffering hoping to make themselves feel better or reach a goal. That’s also what makes them tragic, they want something so bad it drives them to destroy what they already had. Strahd was a lord, basically a king kinda, he was powerful, strong, and great. But he let his own insecurities, lust, and his own hubris destroy him. Strahd is tragic. He is an interesting villain. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to die. He’s lived too long and hurt too many people. He needs to die.
One of my favorite scenes involving Strahd comes from "I, Strahd" the novel leading up to our titular antagonist explaining what led up to him being in Castle Ravenloft. When he took over a group of nearby villages, he and his treasurer went over the previous lord's documents of their taxes, and rode into town with some soldiers to check on things. The local tax man greeted him and congratulated Strahd on it being his birthday, which did nothing to butter the guy up since he was starting to hate his age. Tax man was trying to butter him up because he was embezzling money. He tried to reason that it was just because business was slow this year, but the treasurer already had accounted for that, and so he begged for mercy. Strahd told him to take off his shirt and kneel down in front of the crowd that had gathered for his arrival. The tax collector was actually pretty relived at this. The previous lord would've removed fingers from him, but it seemed he was only about to get a whipping. As he was kneeled down, he was starting to wonder when the whipping would start. And then the crowd got a nice spray as Strahd had a soldier decapitate the man, with the only reason he had him take the shirt off first being that it was actually somewhat valuable and strahd didn't want to ruin it in the execution.
Reason With Strahd: "Why would I leave? I have everything I desire here, in fact my utmost desire is right before me! I need to but take it!" Reason with Zariel: "Would the powers that be forgive, even a creature such as myself..." T_T Moral of the story, be more like Zariel. Kill Demons, always works out in the end.
I hate people insisting bad guys aren't that bad. It seems to be a trend recently and it's really frustrating me. Sometimes it's just a bad person doing a bad thing in a story and that's all it's not that deep these aren't real people! That you for coming to my TED Talk 😅
I'm currently playing through with a gnomish bard who has the quirk that a minor version of her College of Whispers trait goes off constantly when she's interested in someone, causing them to think she's the kind of 'nice girl' who will chain them in her basement as a pet the second thier guard is down. So basically anyone she'd like to befriend or romance ends up running off screaming, and the party only stands her because they're her employees. Strahd saw this and tried to use it to get to her. Poor Ella just wants someone, anyone to love her but her intensity drives people off, surely she could sympathize with his situation. The answer is no actually. She does understand the bitter pain of someone you love running from you screaming, and yes she has had the dark urge to just tie someone up so they can't run away from her anymore, she has actually never done that because she realizes that NO MEANS NO, no matter how much it hurts. And besides, he's a bad ruler. Counts are sworn to protect thier people, he has not done that, and as a merchant I have a particular vendetta against people who break contracts.
*This.* This is almost exactly how Strahd should be, and that campfire story idea has given me inspiration to tweak how I plan to introduce Strahd for real to my party. I always planned on using the Gertuda minor side quest to demonstrate to the party how cruel he really is. By, instead of the party meeting an illusion of Strahd, Strahd actually sits down to dinner with them and has a conversation, complete with entertainment. During the dinner, Strahd would call upon Gertruda, who has been learning dancing lessons from some of the castle staff, to perform for the guests. Only. Gertruda would be *exhausted,* stumbling more and more often, and every step she took would be on feet made bloody by popped blisters and bruised, raw skin. The important thing to note is that she's not charmed. She genuinely believes that Strahd wants her to become a good dancer and that this is the only way to do it - to suffer agonizing pain for her art. Any chance that the players would interrupt the performance, Strahd would start emotionally manipulating *her,* watching their reactions and *relishing.* Make it clear to them that any protestations they give to him are only going to be used to hurt Gertruda. Even if they succeed in convincing Strahd to allow her to/convince her to rest, she refuses to leave the castle willingly and is just going to be taken away further into the castle. I can't wait. >:D
The players are the IRS, and Strahd is an Anarco-Capitalist who sees all taxation as theft, except the taxes he forces everyone in Barovia to pay him. After all, he's providing them a valuable service of not making their lives miserable. Well, more so than they already are, anyway. I'd recommend not showing that he taxes the nearby people until after he has met with the players and given them a "taxation is theft" speech. Even if your players agree with his arguments, no one like a hypocrite so they'll still try to collect. For an even better twist, have the players learn shortly after they've defeated Strahd that his taxes on the common people were a lot lower than what they're about to be, now that the IRS has run the numbers of what they REALLY make.
Player Characters: "Strahd! It's time to pay your overdue taxes! DM as Strahd: NO! You bloodsucking unholy abominations of the shadows will get nothing from me! Also DM: *Running out of the room and locking the door behind them (or just turning down the volume these days) before the players can finish processing what just happened.*
Except who would be the hegemon to make him beholden to tax collectors. Being an alternate dimensions, and even feudal nobles-especially if they are local tax collectors-have to beholden to central authority, including taxes collected from peasantry in his lands.
@Natasel Depends on character. Also, other stuff happens Descent Into Avernus. I don't want to spoil much, but things go down and there's more than one way to deal with things.
Completely different game and completely different character flaws: In Vampire: The Masquerade, in the first and second edition of Chicago by Night, there is a particular vampire that reminds me very much of Strahd in the way that he believes himself to be a tragic figure (his name is Khalid and he is fucking terrifying but also hilarious in his self sabotage). Khalid is an elder vampire that has been trying to achieve Golconda (vampire zen plus actual repentance for one’s wrongdoings). He has a Humanity rating of 2 (if you reach zero, you are a monster that baths in guts and gore and runs around killing people) and regularly loses his shit. He thinks he’s a swell guy and will even act that way towards those he meets, but he never realizes that he is actually a really terrible person. This is a guy, mind you, that watched two children get abused by their parents, watched it with all of his power that he had to prevent it, and only when they retaliated and killed his parents did he introduce himself (and turned them into vampires and left them to live in the house with the ghosts of their dead parents). All in all, I love this character trope to death, if you can’t tell. There’s a scary amount of people in real life who behave like Strahd and Khalid.
I actually used a combination of calm emotions, suggestion, and a stupidly persuasion check to force Strahd into a situation where he sees the error of his ways then the DM completely flipped the script, and had us working with Strahd to defeat the dark powers. It was an amazing campaign that ran for almost a year, and by the end of it Berovia was returned to the prime material plane.
I play Sergei and part of his motivation (aside from saving all the people and the land) is to put Strahd out of his misery. He loves his brother (despite being murdered by him) but recognises that he’s completely beyond redemption and that giving him more of a chance than he’s owed isn’t worth risking the lives of others
I see Strahd as similar to a figure in the greek underworld (i.e. Tantalus, Sisyphus, etc.). His prison is technically self-made, with his personality being used to trap him in an eternal punishment. Getting away is simple if you're looking at it clinically, but because the prison was designed for him by dark powers who know him better than he knows himself, he's never going to willingly end his own curse. But, as Vladimir Horngaard might say, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it.
@Natasel Honestly that's sort of the best part of the Amber Temple though. It's designed as a trap for the PCs in order for the bigger bad to get a new hamster.
There’s a sort of psychosis that often goes with immortal characters in fiction where their character development is essentially paused, either their personality doesn’t change because they are unchanging or their character develops so slowly that no one can really notice it. Personally I feel like Strahd fits into this pretty well.
It kinda makes sense, the ability to eventually die is something that some believe is what furthers behavior change in humans, thus, an individual without the certainty of death will be unable to advance.
@@kenneth_mata That's a good point. Part of charge is developmental progress, too. I bet you wouldn't start feeling like a grandpa after 100 years, if you still looked and felt like you were 25.
My preferred way to play Strahd is a warlord groomed from birth to lead armies, and was never taught to just be a person. So when he won, he didn't know what to do with himself. When he fell in love, he approached it the same way he does war, trying to find the correct strategy to win. During the actual game, he's been playing with the party sure, but he treats it like a war, he constantlt strategises on how to undermine the party and believes these strategies will win him the war and thus Ireena. He's calculating, cruel and is a monster. He doesn't know how to be a person, and he's never even bothered to learn. In m game, he wouldn't have fell if not for the dark powers. Heck, he may have even learned to be good. But once he fell, it's his fault he fell as far as he has and hasn't tried to rise back up again. I like more complicated villains, so I spread the blame of Strahd's fall across his friends, parents and the dark powers. Everything after that is on Strahd's head.
I also used the interactive tome of Strahd to actually affecr and change Strahd if they wanted to. I treated it as a magical imprint of his memories, so anything they did in there he remembered. So while they couldn't have changed the past they *could* have used it to teach present day Strahd how to be better, and with immense difficulty redeem him. Because if that's the story they wanted to play through, I am more than happy to facilitate. Luckily for me, they *didn't* do that.
You’re right about him and it makes me kind of sad because there’s a chance the players can find him weeping on his brother’s coffin and I always liked the idea that this was the one thing he truly regretted
Strahd isn't sympathetic, but with his whole backstory at your fingertips, he is pitiable. And not the "aww, poor you" sympathetic pity, but the "wow, you're so pathetic its sad" kind. On the topic of the Demiplanes of Dread, only one person that was ever trapped in one ever became self-aware enough to actually escape it, and that was Soth. Admittedly, his crestors had never intended him to end up in one and kinda hated that he got put there, so that feels more like a victory for them. I would also say Soth is probably closer to being a sympathetic character than Strahd ever was.
While I agree about Soth you forget one other being that was for a time a resident of the Domains of Dread. That being the God Vecna. Before he gained full god status the then Demigod failed an attempt at becoming a full god and ended up in the demiplane with the one guy he hated the most domainlord of the neighboring domain, Kas the betrayer. HE of course escaped and eventually became a full god but still for a time he was trapped there. Oh and Kas ended up as an entity called a vestige and stuck between planes so I am not sure that could be considered escaping fully. You could make an argument that Azailen also escaped for a time but he ended up back ruling Darkon and plotting the destruction his creation stuck in the former capital of Darkon when it became the domain Necroplis.
I have loved turning Strahd into a true evil tricking people that he is apathetic. I played him as this tragic lover who was mis understood. Tricking players into think he could be reasoned with. He played the perfect nice guy, even invited them to diner and they accepted at the end of dinner he finally told them what or should I say who they were eating, the children the players saved earlier on in the campaign. That's how evil Strahd is, the players tried to kill him there but just weren't powerful enough. Strahd allowed them to leave the castle after beating them just so he could watch them suffer after consuming what they ate. Sometimes there are just pure evil people in the world there is no negotiating with them. My players always tried be sympathetic try to see why a bad guy was bad. This was the game that showed them that there is nothing complex, he is just pure evil and enjoys watching others suffer. That assured
In older editions, the Ravenloft books specifically stated that admitting fault and atoning for them will get a darklord out of their domain no sweat, but none of them are willing to do that.
I know that Strahd isn't sympathetic, I've read "I, Strahd". He forces a guy to strip naked before decapitating him in front of an audience over TAX FRAUD, all of the villagers live in fear of him, hell, some commit suicide to try to enter death's arms and escape but they just get reincarnated instead. Ravenloft is a world where the children are too afraid to play on the streets because Strahd dosen't protect them from the big evil monsters that live in the woods, and he frankly dosen't give a damn if someone's child gets eaten by one of the horrors that live in the woods. He's a lot like The Computer from "Paranoia", exept not comedic at all.
My TH-cam recommendations brought this video just to call me out, I _swear._ Good video, man! Strahd is _very much_ a vampire's vampire, not a subversion. As another comment said, the guy's a tragic character, not a sympathetic one. After watching/reading an old Greek tragedy, one probably feels bad for the main tragic character's sucky situation, but it's still very clearly the character's own fault and not just a minor whoopsie that was 100% out of their control. There's a difference between "broken" and "evil", and when a character voluntarily traps an entire town in an eternal cycle of pain and despair just because Becky wouldn't let him smash, I'd say they under basically all situations qualify as "evil" now. My character in the currently on-indefinite-hold Curse of Strahd game I'm playing in is still definitely going to try and get our favorite shitty vampire pretty-boy to stop being terrible and try to be middlingly decent, but honestly since he's an all-loving hero type and also a 12-year-old ghost child raised on the kinds of stories where such a tactic 9 times out of 10 _works,_ it's hopefully clear that he'd do this for _any_ adversary and not just Strahd.
Natasel It’s because of the reincarnation cycle. Some souls are just worn too thin being reborn and having the spirit beaten out of them by the despair of Barovia again and again, to the point that they practically don’t exist. There’s a reason the Main NPCs™ don’t suffer this effect considering they have near constant interaction with would-be heroes to pump them full of hope (even if/when they ultimately fail) every reincarnation.
Was not aware that Strahd could actually leave. I was under the impression he had to find a replacement for that. Really puts an addition degree to his evilness. Thank you.
Do people feel bad for Strahd? Like the people who originally created Strahd said he was a fantasy version of a serial abuser. I'm of the mind that everyone can be redeemed, but the dude killed and ate people because his crush didn't like him? Come on.
I imagine some of them are people who dont know much about Strahd out of game or ingame. (Only know the name, is vampire lord of darkness, bare bones info) Ingame that can be forgiven if your character trys to help or redem people, but i have issues believing their own and their character's opinion of Strahd would remain the same once they found out the truth. If they somehow still feel pity for the guy, id be somewhat worried for them.
Some people have seen too many stories where deeply unhealthy relationships were glorified. When they see what looks like the same set up in a story that doesn’t glorify the toxic relationship, they don’t understand what makes it so bad.
@@peterwhite6415 Here's the thing. You don't have to approve of everything a person has done in order to empathize with them. I pity Strahd. His parents basically used him as a soldier/military commander, they sent him against foes that he didn't have any real chance of winning against in a fair fight, so he had to do horrible things to survive and carve out territory for himself. Then, after he spent his youth going through hell to claw himself into relevance, he invites his parents to come to his domain, they bring along a pampered younger brother, who has never known hardship; Who has never had to go to war, or kill to survive. I can understand why he has a complicated relationship with his family. He loves Sergei, but he also resents him. He loves his parents, but feels like they used him. Does that justify what he eventually did? No, obviously not. At the end of the day, Strahd is a monster, but I can understand why he did what he did, even if I don't condone it.
Probably because people are playing the fifth edition Curse of Strahd module not playing the fucking 37 year old campaign. Chris Perkins, the literal project lead *of the actual adventure people play* said " He's meant to be a tragic character and you're supposed to feel for the guy but he's also lived too long and needs to die". This is how he was written for the fifth edition Curse of Strahd that people play, how he was originally created 37 years ago is less relevant.
Strahd leads with a very powerful argument that his punishment doesn't match his crime, and thus his fate is not worth the effort - a very powerful and common feeling most people have likely encountered or considered. It is what he has done after, and how its defined him, that gets revealed through the module which makes it so damning. That said, it would be interesting to play with the idea that Sergei was the vile and controlling brother, mislead Tatiana, and Strahd was the cordial and nice one but in the end committed an evil deed to try and subvert his brother's petty actions.
I tried playing curse of Strahd once, the DM (who is a friend of mine) didn’t read ahead in the module and had no idea how to play Strahd. What ended up happening is we only really did one thing and that was head straight for the tome as that was our only real objective, somehow on the way there we encounter Strahd not once but twice and never even saw a trace of his brides or henchmen. Once we got the book and headed elsewhere Strahd shows up again and blows up our carriage with a fireball. We all know that there isn’t anything we can do to fight him (were level 4) so we pretty much just stood by and watched what him, when we realize he can’t be reasoned with I toss the book into the burning wreckage. He proceeds to cast blight on me (I’m a sorcerer so I don’t exactly have a lot of hp) so I fail the save and am about 11 damage away from just instantly dying. He then snatched up the book that apparently didn’t burn from the wreckage and flies off. We knew we weren’t supposed to say his name so we didn’t, not even once, he just kinda knew where we were for some reason. There was no session after that.
This breaks my heart a little. Curse of Strahd is a very good module with the right DM. If it gives you any peace, he does have a way to track where the party is
@@CombatSportsNerd just his obsession with Tatiana, his hatred of his brother and hiw he's liable to murder both. Plus how he contacted the dark powers that be
@@CombatSportsNerd that is a pure understatement right there. Hell the abbot and Rahadin are the closest he gets to one. Especially with Rahadin being his Alfred to Strahd's batman
To be fair to Strahd, before he died and was rez’d as a vampire by the dark gods of ravenloft that he had anger issues and was actually working to manage them in life. As well as him being obsessive. But when he became undead he became completely unable to acknowledge these flaws and is unable to let the perceived slight his brother did to him by having Tatiana love him more go. But that was AFTER he defenestrated her and killed his brother (not particularly in that order) and was then killed by his Castle guard on order of his I think father I don’t really remember. Edit To remove a second comment: To be clear about a points you make at 4:09 the way it’s written at least in the new edition version of curse of strahd is that dude has vampirism he is completely unable to acknowledge any of this. Vampirism apparently affects you in such a way that you cannot experience positive emotional growth or emotion in general love becomes lust or obsession in the case of the titular vampire. Positive emotions become their negative counterparts. To be fair I do agree with the fact that he could leave whenever the hell he wants it’s just that he doesn’t want to
One of the most intriguing ways to use a vampire is to have them be both tragic and irredeemable. The anime Demon Slayer does a really good job of this (shut up they're basically vampires). This seems like an interesting way to play Strahd; he had his faults, certainly, but he wasn't planning to become the monster he became, he was just playing with powers he didn't understand. That said, he cannot now be saved and is a being of pure evil.
I always found The Devil Strahd[spits] to be a facinating character study. He went from a midly Bloodthirsty Middle-aged man going through a Midlife crisis(a certain sign of which is lusting after a MUCH younger "Partner") to a Highly functioning Sociapath who likes to play mind games. By the time Curse of Strahd starts, i don't think he even CARES about Tatyanna anymore, he's just after her reincarnations cause she's the one think he can never get(no matter WHAT he does)...
I’m DMing CoS soon and when I read the book, Strahd gave me no sign of being sympathetic. Especially because it’s lined out in “how to play him” that he is not one to be reasoned with. He’s Lawful Evil...
There's a big difference between a sympathetic character and having sympathy for a character. A sympathetic character has traits we can relate to, while having sympathy means we feel like we've been in their situation. Strahd was once a man, who was rejected by the person he loved (whether that love was healthy or reciprocal isn't the point). We've all felt rejected at some point. But we don't sympathize with killing your brother, attempting to force his girlfriend to marry you, or keeping a bunch of people locked in eternal torment because of your dumbassery.
I've always like this idea of strahd being "You'd be a fine dude. Not particularly good but maybe a fun npc to see every so often IF YOU COULD JUST TAKE NO FOR A FUCKING ANSWER"
This is something that I try teach my players when I run Vampire the masquerade games. "You are the bad guy, no mater how you justify it to yourself, if you play this game with this character, you need to be willing and ready to see all your plans be twisted by your own horrible nature."
Man, I’m so glad someone else shares my views on Strahd. Nobody else in my dnd group did. They got SUPER pissed when I refused to try and redeem strahd in our game. I wasn’t sure why they got so mad irl but now I can see why. They simps.
I remember back in the 90s, my GM (who was of the Gygax-style "GM vs Players" type) throwing a bunch of low level (like... 4th? I think) characters into Ravenloft. Strahd never came across as having any redeeming qualities. And after I got old, got away from the toxic group, and studied the lore... there still weren't any redeeming qualities. The entire setting is a bunch of emo assholes that are so evil that they dragged a shitton of innocents into their own personal hells.
I keep telling my players that strahd is pitiable, in the sense that you kinda feel sorry for his suffering and that maybe things could've been better, but over all he's an evil sack of garbage and he mostly deserves everything he gets including the suffering. All he wants is to drag others down into his miserable level. In a lot of ways he's a lot like DIO from Jojo, just a vile brute pretending to be a man of sophistication. Heck I based my strahd around DIO including the voice and memes lol
Your take on Strahd is spot on, but I note a number of what would seem to be glaring inaccuracies when compared with my understanding of the character, which was built from pretty much every Ravenloft product from 1st edition through 3rd edition, and having watched a couple of playthroughs of the 5th edition module, which can likely be chalked up to the changes they've made for the 5e module. The Shadowfell is a Forgotten Realms thing, only part of the default cosmology because with 5e they made Forgotten Realms the default setting. Everywhere else, it's the Demiplane of Shadow - yes, it's not even a proper plane. Ravenloft, or more accurately, the Realm of Borovia, exists as part of the Demiplane of Dread, strongly influenced by the Demiplane of Shadow, perhaps, but not part of it. Also Strahd absolutely can NOT leave, the Dark Powers will never be done with him, they keep him prisoner here, much as they do Lord Soth. Other than these differences there doesn't seem to be much difference between the metaphysics and Strahd's circumstances between editions. CoS greatly expands upon the old module I6, of course. Also, that's a great scene with Strahd you came up with this there, think I'll steal it like all good DMs.
Additional note: the change to whether he can actually leave may have been an intentional move to make sure ppl didn't find him sympathetic. Sadly this failed, but...
You know what would be a big middle finger to Strahd? Making Tatyana fall in love for your character and to add salt to injury, even more if your playing a monk.
I never knew anyone considered Strahd sympathetic. Since 2nd Edition, I thought they'd done a good job writing a back story that killed any sense that he might be redeemed.
I always thought that the sympathetic reading on strahd was an intentional part of the module so that the vampire king could manipulate and corrupt the part.(if a DM wanted to go that way)
Considering there’s that one dungeon where a steamroller instantly kills the party if you’re unlucky (no save given) Dio would probably win, but in a completely fair fight it sort of depends on if Dio has the world and or his vampire abilities; with both Strahd is most certainly dead, with just one it can vary but as long as Dio can stop time there isn’t much that Strahd can do.
I left my friend's curse of Strahd game when he started this. It began when he said that he was going to rewrite sections of the module (mostly the stuff that was hard limits for the players such as an obnoxious about of dead children and the subtle racism with the Vistani). I knew something was off when he mentioned that the Brides of Strahd were good; that Baba Yaga wanted to help the party; and that even Strahd wanted the Death House eliminated. All of these strange small things that just didn't feel right. It turns out, in his Curse of Strahd, Strahd is just a tool of the Dark Powers. He also kept throwing in Azalin Rex from Darkon as well and things just became so confusing and over the top graphic I just had to walk away. Its refreshing to know that Strahd was intended to be an evil character and I'm glad you made this argument. I have no idea why some people -want- to make him into this complex character...
So I’m totally stealing that first Strahd encounter, absolutely amazing breakdown of why Strahd is not a poor heartbroken soul, he is the one who breaks the souls of anyone foolish enough to fall for his self-pity
The tragedy of Strahd is laid out in his diary. He says "the war years and the killing years wore down my soul as the wind wears stone into sand" and "my youth had left me" and "she could see death in me". The tragedy is that he was destroyed by the military life he inherited from his father. Losing any faith in his ability to come back from this, he instead leaned further in and made the pact, from then on being truly evil. The tragedy is one of a broken soldier who was once good. If you cant find any reason to be sympathetic towards him it's because you're not looking far enough back
Virgin Strahd- Became a vampire because he wanted immortality to solve his mid-life crisis. Simps over a woman who threw herself off a cliff (Strahd was being a creep). Wants to marry a "reincarnation" of that woman (obsessive). Stuck in Barovia. Has to shift his face to be presentable. Chad Vlad von Carstein- Founder of the von Carstein bloodline because he impressed best queen Neferata. Married and power-coupled with Isabella von Carstein. Almost conquered Altdorf (pretty impressive for the capitol of the Empire). Better ruler than most Sylvanian lords. Looks like a rotting corpse, still acts polite
Im well aware of this. One of my fav jokes with describing strahd is to tell my friends "AND THEN STRAHD PULLS OUT HIS BEST FEDORA..." And I love him 😆
This is also why I really hate the 'female Strahd' thing that's been thrown around so much these days. I just cannot view it as anything but "I simp for Strahd but can't squint past all the rapey, homicidal, sociopathic stuff, so I'll make him a woman because women are inherently sympathetic and can't do REALLY bad things." It's extremely sexist in both directions AND completely misses the point of the character. At least the simps who keep him male are merely missing the point without being massive bigots to boot.
But there are also I, Strahd novels, in which he is quite a hero. I actually think that all in all, he is the best available ruler for Barovia. He protects the land, upholds the law, punishes criminals, and law abiding citizens have no cause to fear him. Barovians should actually be glad that they have him :)
The way I always rationalized why Strahd or any vampire is incapable of personal growth or finding peace is that once they become undead, their personality is frozen in time. Who they were, the choices they made that led them to damnation - those flavors are locked in, as if they were sold a Tupperware coffin. That's part of the curse of seeking immortality that way: they wanted to live forever, and so they become snapshot of who they were in that moment of weakness, forever. This is they are almost always incapable of changing their attitude and repeat echoes of the same actions - Strahd, for instance, sought after Tatyana, and so he's forever seeking new brides. But notice that the term is always "brides" and never "wives" - for them to be a 'wife' and not a 'bride' would suggest that he was capable of moving forward.
The way I see it is. -Yeah have pity for the guy. - Yes he is a Tyrant, Maniac, sociopath, Dangerous, the worst, etc. - No his punishment are not outmatch. - there's no redemption for him. Only punishment. You can feel pity for someone like that while at the same time feel that there should be some Justice that should happen. I think you see too much as black and white.
I think you missed one of his more sympathetic elements. He inherited his father's war from a younge age, was forced to fight and by the time he had finished, his youth was long gone. Strahd has an intelligence of 20, hes a genius. In another life, he could have been a brilliant poet, scholar or artist, but his life was wasted on a war that wasn't his.
Dumb and random fact: I'm currently playing a game of curse of strahd and my character is a vistani worlock who made a deal with the morning lord to never leave berovia until he has helped the party kill strahd, because of this, he can't drink wine in is forced to eat apples as a substitute.even having withdrawal symptoms. Also he can't use visani curses
I still remember the only time I ever ran Curse of Strahd. From the moment I started planning how to portray the big dumb vampire, I knew how I was gonna spin it. In short order, Strahd as I depict him is more of a Joffrey than he is a Tywin. He's arrogant, pompous, vain, petulant, and really just a huge spoiled brat with a god complex. I've never had more fun portraying a villain.
The closest point Strahd ever gets to realizing what he is becoming is before he even becomes a vampire all the way back when he wrote the Tome of Strahd. And after he acknowledges that he changed from the war he just goes on and learns nothing from that realization.
Strahd is honestly the pinnacle of vampirism, becoming a vampire costs you your soul and twists all positive emotions into negative Love becomes obsession Admiration becomes jealousy Fear becomes paranoia Self loathing is redirected outwards Guilt becomes blame Dislike becomes murderous hate Thats how I think of Strahd, I believe he was a creepy guy, he made the deal to make her love him, became a vampire, his admittedly twisted emotions were corrupted further which made him murderous and unstable He was a bad man who was driven further into depravity by poor decisions and desperation
My friend did an *amazing* job making strahd seem like a tragic hero giving us tidbits of his story throughout the campaign, then we found out what his whole story was, then we found out he was actually just a jealous dick It was such a great moment when he did the reveal
I brought him in in person far too late in the story, he flew over Yester Hill to go stare off into the mists, and he came to watch the battle for a bit after he heard the wizard break the gulthias staff. He amusedly said they seem to have everything taken well care of, and reminded them of the dinner invite. The warlock was the first to pipe up in response saying they would accept the invite, so I charmed him to make sure he meant it. I realized Strahd has a good hook into each PC; the warlock is a noble, the vengeance paladin is a great warrior, the ranger is a native of Barovia (and he died and got a Dark Gift), the wizard seeks knowledge and wants to leave (maybe Strahd just lets him leave!), the bard is ambitious and pervy like all bards, and the grave cleric is a bit too interested in necromantic spells.
Strahd: “What does my brother have that I don’t!?”
Tatiana: “Redeeming qualities.”
Natasel Sergei (spelling?) was described as more attractive than Strahd, but more than that he was described as kind and empathetic to people of lower class. So like all in all he was hot, nice, and in Tatiana’s age demographic while Strahd was okay looking, ruthless, and old enough to be Tatiana’s father if he started early. Plus Strahd only like Tatiana because she is the concept of youth personified, even more so now that she gets reborn and dies young forever.
Natasel Don’t bring real world religion discrimination into this man lol, you look like a fool
"I have grown close to your brother. I only vaguely remember passing you on the street once."
@Natasel
A miracle uwu
A sentient sword of sunlight that doesn't know it's a sentient sword of sunlight. Yet.
Strahd Is like a Green dragon, at first he seems sophisticated and cultured, even charming but sooner or later you Will realise that he Is indeed no more but a monster
at first he seem like a sophisticated and cultured man but in truth he his a sophisticated and cultured monster
Strahd is like this: Paladins will tell you that the Devil is a goat hoofed grotesque monster with bulls horns. But the poor homeless fuckers on the street that met the Devil could tell you the truth. The Devil looks like a human gentleman, wears an immaculate suit with a red tie and the most charming presence possible. He is the classy gentleman with a charming smile as he convinces you to sign your life and firstborn son away. A man of culture indeed!
@@nerdyguygamer In most d and d worlds the more chaotic and beastly aspects of evil are represented by demons whereas the lawful charismatic ones are the devils, Asmodeus current ceo of the nine hells Is literally described as the most handsome devil. The moral Is run for the hills and pray your New home doesnt become a battlefield for the cosmic forces
@@nerdyguygamer Well obviously, The paladin was thinking of a Demon, not a devil. Simple mistake. People mix up the two all the time.
To be fair he was nurtured and groomed to be self serving since birth not to condone his actions
As John Wick (the game designer) said, "Strahd was a player character. A player character with a really brutal GM. A GM who gave him everything he ever wanted… except one thing. That one thing was the only thing the GM said, “You can’t have this.” And it drove Strahd mad."
Honestly, the fact that Strahd never really got any meaningful thing that he truly wanted was why he turned out that way. He was a man who dedicated himself to duty for forty years, only to find that the rewards he reaped from that duty weren't the satisfying and fulfilling things he'd been promised they would be for all that time. And then he saw his brother about to follow down the same basic path, and couldn't help but relate and sympathize even as he felt helpless to stop Sergei from repeating his mistakes. And then Sergei DIDN'T repeat those mistakes -- he threw away duty for the things that truly mattered to him. At one point, he literally described Sergei as being '[himself] as [he] should have been'. Strahd couldn't handle seeing the way his life could've gone, seeing somebody else make all the right choices he wishes he'd made, particularly since it was 'far too late' (in his mind) to make those same good choices. It was never about 'Tatyana is the one thing I want', it was about 'Tatyana represents everything I ever wanted and of which I feel robbed'.
@@thefairybug40 This is such an accurate observation. I would even go as far as to say that Strahd suffered from a serious PTSD in the aftermath of 30 years of war. He was but 15 year old when he was thrust onto a battlefield. That is not a thing to do to a boy who should still be enjoying his childhood. There was no time for love during his military campaign, and the only friend he had made was Alek Gwylim. Or, more accurately said, Alek kind of adopted the princeling and served as a surrogate elder brother to him. Even if Alek's presence helped, Strahd was shaped primarily by war. His family was practically lost to him. Letters don't make up for a hug or a kiss in the hair, or any other expression of affection between parents and their son, or between siblings for that matter. So yes, his life largely lacked experiences which actually make a life worth living. No wonder that he felt so lost and robbed of time when the decades of conquest ended at last.
I also don't see Tatyana as an innocent character. Strahd, having fallen in love for the first time in his life, was doing all that he could to woo her and she would have had to be blind not to recognize that he was trying to court her. She simply chose his younger brother because Sergei was half Strahd's age and also came without any burden of responsibility, which suited her own impulsive nature. The couple didn't have a single duty in Barovia; all the weight of ruling the land and making tough decisions was once again up to Strahd to carry alone.
Thus, the Dark Powers found him at his most vulnerable, nearly defenseless. His iron will had been worn thin.
@@ciarandwynvil273 I'm sorry, not to create conflict but how does that make Tatyana "not innocent"? If anything, dating Strahd would be the less innocent choice since the only reason would be the gifts and political power.
@@zoboothemafoo In my view, Tatyana isn't innocent because she didn't openly tell Strahd that she didn't have any tender feelings for him and because she was perfectly happy to receive his gifts and money nonetheless. In other words, she took an advantage of him. It was so painfully obvious that he was courting her. She was already in love with Sergei, so she knew well enough the signs of a man's interest in a woman, which is why she couldn't claim not to know that Strahd's affection for her was of the romantic nature.
She was a girl who came to live in his castle and liked the luxury he lavished on her. And at the same time, she didn't want any responsibility to come with it. She strung him along, and it ended up badly for all involved.
If anyone was entirely innocent in that fateful triangle, it was Sergei.
@@thefairybug40 Oh no. It's me.
Strahd is a great character because he is an inversion of a sympathetic character, a monster who believes himself a tragic hero, but whose situation is in fact purely of his own making. However, he believes he is the hero of his own story, and actually has motivations beyond simply serving as an obstacle to the PCs, which makes him much better than most D&D villains imo.
So he's a less comedic version of Handsome Jack?
@Southern Shinobi Now I wanna do a Curse of Strahd campaign where Castle Ravenloft is now Raven Corporation, a megacorperation that controls Barovia and it's people.
@@redzgaming6880 That's amazing. Borderlands in the shadow fell. I would LOVE to be a part of that campaign.
Oh wonderfull! He's "that guy".
Interestingly, the quality you've just described is one of the hallmarks of a Gothic Horror story. A perfect example is Victor Frankenstein, who, after defying the laws of nature and the will of god to create a monster, promptly abandons his creation in a world that knows only how to hate and fear it. The monster goes on to kill everyone he loves, directly as a result of Victor's own actions in each instance, and Victor still dies thinking he was a victim of circumstance and a tragic hero. The PROBLEM with curse of strahd is that the PLAYERS aren't playing through a gothic horror story, STRAHD is.
That fireside chat with Strahd really set up that whole module to be great.
Can you elaborate? What’s the goal from the dm point of view and what can you expect from players in general? Also why didn’t davy’s players not write they wanted to go home ?
@@TheJPKaram You see, _they did._
At least some of them did. Strahd just ignored that because he can and because he's a dick.
I'm pretty sure they all did write they wanted to leave. Strahd tried to give them hope just to destroy that hope a few minutes later. That scene was brilliantly played.
@@TheJPKaram it's a mind game. He offers you something, and then snatches it away. Giving you just enough hope that you can make it, and then showing you how futile it is to hope. One feature davvvy forgot to mention, but was the true genius in showing how evil Strahd is, is that he told us only one could leave, the others had to stay. So when it came out that some of us would doom our friends for a chance to escape, it started to fracture party trust. This is key in showing how manipulating he is as a villain, and setting up the game to actually be a horror themed adventure. Once you strip away your ability to trust in anything, you start to really fear for your character.
Its such a dick move and establishs that will indeed straight up lie to you
As soon as my players found the Tome of Strahd and learned of his backstory, all of them started calling him an incel, it was hilarious.
They fully understand how he got there, but they rightly have no sympathy for him.
My group did the same
he IS an incel
ditto
You people are idiots
@@NicoleKisa i know what you are but what am i
Strahd's story isn't sympathetic, it's just plain tragic. Not for him, he's a monster, but for everybody he hurt
Strahd is basically every self-absorbed incel manchild who takes their misery at not gaining everything they feel entitled to out on those around them. He even lives in his own little miniature realm where he tortured people as toys just to feed his power trip.
@@Mgauge THANK YOU
Strahd story is like a tragic tale but not for strahd for everyone around him for strahd it's a comedy or a drama which only he finds funny or compelling
@@Mgauge no, this is wrong on both accounts. Those people you’re describing don’t scratch what strahd is and the comparison both demonizes people not nearly as bad as strahd and softens an actual sociopath.
It's a tragedy in the truest sense, everyone suffers, ultimately for nor nos reason other than one man not being able to deal with his emotions. He's tragic in the sense that if he could just take two seconds to think "is what I'm doing really the best way to deal with my feelings?" He might realise just how pointless his actions are. But then again, vampires can't see their own reflections can they?
He acts like he is a Sympathetic person many times because he believes he is deserves Sympathy after all he did nothing wrong in his mind all of this is just unjust punishment for his love. He is delusional by choice unwilling to see what he did he believes all the evil he does is justified even if he would cause the death of Tatiana (lightening bolt from the sky she got caught up in9 he will not see it as his fault it was the pcs because they would not bring her to him to deliver both of them into their salvation after Her death he just started attacking the People he deemed to be responsible the PCs luckily they were close to ready to face him
This character is too real
Punctuation? Overall, good summary.
every villain is the hero of there own story
To paraphrase Samara from Mass Effect 2: "That make [him] a tragic character, not a sympathetic one". A sad backstory and nice cheekbones doesn't excuse eating people.
@Natasel I imagine his crying goes along the lines of "why couldn't you just let me have her? You didn't have to die, if only you'd let me have her"
Basically he blames Sergei for his own actions
A sympathetic villian is Mr. Freeze from the 90's batman cartoon. Mr. Freeze starts off as a bad guy, however, he dosen't go out of his way to hurt anybody intentionally except Batman and Robin (who just so happen to be in his way), then the next time you see him, he's an edgey anti-hero, the in the made for tv movie he was in, he slowly but surely became an actual hero before retiring. Strahd, however; lacks any redeeming qualities that would humanize him (Mr. Freeze, for example, actually cares about people, he already got the girl, he just wanted to bring her back to life and couldn't cope with her death, he dosen't want to see people he barely knows suffer, etc.) Strahd dosen't have any of those redeeming qualities, hell, he has zero redeeming qualities. If I ever run Ravenloft, I'm going to make Strahd an asshole to them so they don't feel bad for killing him, even as he monologues while bleeding out.
@@Neutral_Tired I imagine it being all crocodile tears, he knows where the players are headed, so he goes there to make a scene, pretending to have redeeming qualities. And when a player tries to comfort him, he stops pretending to be sad and socks whoever tried comforting in him in the face before mocking them.
It’s the twisted assumption that a monstrous villain is somehow redeemable by the “right” person. Just like so many terrible teen romance books designed to make young girls feel like they will get a special, powerful, dark boyfriend “bad boy” who will totally never harm them because they are “special” to him.
@Natasel Would be an interesting twist if as he was crying he started laughing..... and then gloating about his brother looked as he was dying, before walking away laughing maniacally as he declares that he will win this time that Tatiana *Will* be his this time...
Strahd really is the best example to use for a vampire's "Dark desires" where their feelings morph into a more twisted version...just so happens that his desires were already twisted so the twist just got twistier
@Natasel lots of mind control and handcuffs I imagine, basically asserting complete, unhealthy levels of control over their partner
@@Neutral_Tired What if they are Subs? Would they want their partner to somehow take complete control over them?....
Never go full shyamalan
I was today years old when i found out there were people who thought Strahd was sympathetic and not an obvious psychopath.
@Natasel The fear of death and taxes, the one thing that could turn any successful man into Strahd.
Party: this is the end strahd, prepare for death monster!
Strahd: I don't have time to die, I'm too busy! Now get off my lawn!
Same here
Joshua Thomas Strahd’s not really a psychopath. He’s just a really horrible, terrible person.
Just look at Loki from the MCU. He has LEGIONS of fangirls. Get an handsome guy with charisma and power, add a total sociopath and murderer, and basically half the female population will line up to "fix him"...
@Natasel Because Strahd is a sociopath who wants whatever he can't have.
why does everyone cosplaying as him still somehow look like Matthew Mercer
What if Taliesin is the patron wich is some eldritch being whos bored.
I think its because of the hair
@cak01vej Certainly doesnt help that Mercer gave the titular Stahd a voice likeness in a VOD campaign also here on TH-cam somewhere (think it was on D&D Beyond or the official D&D channel or somewhere close) during that introduction scene, so its even *more* powerful as of late.
I love your videos! I don’t know why people cosplaying him look like Matt but I still wanted to post!
Haven't you figured it out, yet? Matt Mercer is a vampire.
I remember playing Ravenloft with my online table, and when we read his diary we all had to laugh at how he essentially a "nice guy" writing emo poetry. we read his shitty poems to him as we killed him.
God you need to write this story it's sounds like a real gut buster.
And you probably thought you were the good guys while doing so.
@@Gevaudan1471 simp
@@hugejackedman7423 sounds like my kind of game
@@Gevaudan1471 they are? Did you not watch the video
My party ended in a very peculiar relationship with Strahd. You see the dm of my party had actually introduced us to the Strahd very early on but as the traveling performer Rondo. We didn't know anything about who he really was. I particularly held on to this npc as it was one of the few ones who liked the character I was using. So when I had to make a new one I asked if my new character(Valafar) and Rondo could be friends.(again, unknowingly) He said yes. Which then dramatically shifted Strahd's nature. Taking that same sociopathic nature and applying it to the idea of "I must protect my friend" as our party was trying to free the current reincarnation of his love, and he was trying to stop us without harming Valafar or revealing himself to be Rondo.
The long, overly-attached romance in Future Diary wasn't cute, and it's still not cute when Strahd does it -- ESPECIALLY since it's unrequited.
"Future diary"? Is that some sort of vampire time travel show?
@@redzgaming6880 an anime. Basically it's a battle royale in modern society where each participant has a diary that can give them hints about the future.
One of the characters has a really creepy attraction to the main character which
*minor spoiler*
leads to her at one point tying him up in a basement so he won't get killed by the other participants and keeping him all for herself, against his will.
Yuno is best girl. Fight me!
Future Diary is kinda a bad example for Strahd considering that Yuki and Yuno's romance completely works out and they both go to insane lengths to be together by the end of it. Really it would support Strahd's insane fascination for his love more than anything else.
@@Ithyldr Well, kind of the point of Future Diary is that most people in it are kinda bad people. Including, _especially_ including, the protagonists.
My brain read the title as “strad’s not sympathetic, he's just a simp.” I think I’m this case both the actual title of the video and brain fart title read are valid strad’s a simp.
I don’t think he’s a simp, instead of sucking up to his love interest he’s tormenting her
He's an incel
@@uriel7395 I do not thing he has issues like being celibate, he just cannot accept he is a bad match for the one he really likes/obsesses over. He did occasionally take other lovers
@@stripedpolkadots8692
He's kind of doing both.
When I was playing this campaign the DM made strahd obsessed with every one of the female party members only to leave and move to the next one once they showed they can fight back to show that hes obsessed with obsession rather then Tatiana or anyone else
@Natasel in order
Vivianna the paladin of the love goddess wanted to help him with romance but because she assumed she was strahd's equal he through her out a window and off the cliff
Benoch had to high wisdom to be charmed so again came to strahd as an equal and told him he could be happy if he left this castle behind and joined her in the wilds, struhd killed her
And finally Maria the vampiric blood hunter struhd tried to use a "we are both monsters only I understand you" argument but Maria hates her vampirism so immediately attacked him with her silver chain whip
@@troperhghar9898 I fuckin love this
@@Drekromancer my apartment complex full of dnd players thanks you
"From the makers of Griffith Did Nothing Wrong..."
This feels entirely too biographical. Not autobiographical, but definitely like "I've had this unending conversation with the same insufferable person for the past 6 years, please help me!"
Have you tried shooting them with an arrow?
And that person will most likely turn a blind eye and a deaf ear again
@@Jza_Dragon Last time I heard of someone doing that, they hit them in the knee and they were forced out of their live as an adventurer.
Reading the prequel novel, I Strahd: Memoirs of a Vampire, really does tie together what kind of character Strahd is and why he doesn't deserve sympathy.
Before the whole Tatyana/Serge diabolical, Strahd was a stern military commander who became Lord overnight, he killed multiple Burgermeisters across Barovia in front of their villages for the sake of sending the message that he won't be nearly as lenient as the prior Lord. As far as we are concerned with Strahd's backstory, this is him at his moral peak and it's all downhill from there. Fifty years after becoming a Vampire, he spared a Monk only because one of his comrades in his life was a Cleric. That's the last time he does something "kind" without being manipulative, and the events of Curse of Strahd takes place 300-400 years after that.
He's a great villain, but an awful person. Interesting villains don't have to be sympathetic.
But they do need to be understandable and those old novels did a great job of making a character deeper than "he is evil cause the manual says so"
@@markcarpenter6020 I agree. Strahd is still a very interesting character.
After posting the original comment, I ended up reading "War with Azalin", which pitches Strahd as a lesser of two evils in a conflict. It was very interesting to see Strahd having to properly fill the shoes of a leader and cobble up an army out of inexperienced Barovian guards and mercenaries.
My DM made him so deliciously and emotionally evil, which just made us have so much fun with him as a villain while having NO compassion for him. It was fantastic!
I would just RP him as Dio and give him *Za Warudo!* as a Legendary Action
Make sure to class him as an Astral Self Monk, first.
@@TimeLord675 This is a cultured thread.
I have decided that Strahd is flat out evil during one of my first d&d playthroughs. My character was a Wood elf who due to personal experiences with racism has decided to take every chance to defend his elven brethren and has become that which he seeks to destroy (a racist, especially against humans). Part way through we actually learned about the dusk elves of berovia. They had once been a complete people until Strahds "love" had been reborn as a Dusk elf and for some reason was actually on board with hooking up with the creeper. Her brother was not down with that and killed her so that she wouldn't marry Strahd. In response, Strahd killed every single dusk elf female so that they would eventually die off with the passage of time. He did that instead of just killing the brother.
Wait that's the story? My DM made this *WAY* worse
That's not quite right. Patrina was stoned to death by the dusk elves, instigated by her brother Kasimir. Strahd had Rahadin kill all the female dusk elves as punishment. Still despicable.
Strand is less supposed to be good and supposed to be tragic. He did do it too himself but his story like many stories in the whole Ravenloft book is tragic, most of the stories are tragic or horrific or heartbreaking. An inventor fell/became friends with a body snatcher and did everything to save them only to go mad in the end and want to take back what they used to save them. A Cinderella esque character was lied too so much and betrayed by those lies that she took over a land making it so any false people or liars die. A woman wanted to save her people and village but when her dragon mentor said no she accidentally killed him when only trying to steal from him and caused herself to be trapped forever when the thing that was supposed to save her and her people betrayed her.
They are all very tragic but in the end they aren’t meant to be seen as good or redeemable. These people are cruel, evil, and dangerous. They’ve lived long lives causing pain and suffering hoping to make themselves feel better or reach a goal. That’s also what makes them tragic, they want something so bad it drives them to destroy what they already had. Strahd was a lord, basically a king kinda, he was powerful, strong, and great. But he let his own insecurities, lust, and his own hubris destroy him.
Strahd is tragic. He is an interesting villain. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t need to die. He’s lived too long and hurt too many people. He needs to die.
One of my favorite scenes involving Strahd comes from "I, Strahd" the novel leading up to our titular antagonist explaining what led up to him being in Castle Ravenloft.
When he took over a group of nearby villages, he and his treasurer went over the previous lord's documents of their taxes, and rode into town with some soldiers to check on things. The local tax man greeted him and congratulated Strahd on it being his birthday, which did nothing to butter the guy up since he was starting to hate his age.
Tax man was trying to butter him up because he was embezzling money. He tried to reason that it was just because business was slow this year, but the treasurer already had accounted for that, and so he begged for mercy. Strahd told him to take off his shirt and kneel down in front of the crowd that had gathered for his arrival.
The tax collector was actually pretty relived at this. The previous lord would've removed fingers from him, but it seemed he was only about to get a whipping. As he was kneeled down, he was starting to wonder when the whipping would start.
And then the crowd got a nice spray as Strahd had a soldier decapitate the man, with the only reason he had him take the shirt off first being that it was actually somewhat valuable and strahd didn't want to ruin it in the execution.
Reason With Strahd: "Why would I leave? I have everything I desire here, in fact my utmost desire is right before me! I need to but take it!"
Reason with Zariel: "Would the powers that be forgive, even a creature such as myself..." T_T
Moral of the story, be more like Zariel. Kill Demons, always works out in the end.
I hate people insisting bad guys aren't that bad. It seems to be a trend recently and it's really frustrating me. Sometimes it's just a bad person doing a bad thing in a story and that's all it's not that deep these aren't real people! That you for coming to my TED Talk 😅
I'm currently playing through with a gnomish bard who has the quirk that a minor version of her College of Whispers trait goes off constantly when she's interested in someone, causing them to think she's the kind of 'nice girl' who will chain them in her basement as a pet the second thier guard is down. So basically anyone she'd like to befriend or romance ends up running off screaming, and the party only stands her because they're her employees. Strahd saw this and tried to use it to get to her. Poor Ella just wants someone, anyone to love her but her intensity drives people off, surely she could sympathize with his situation.
The answer is no actually. She does understand the bitter pain of someone you love running from you screaming, and yes she has had the dark urge to just tie someone up so they can't run away from her anymore, she has actually never done that because she realizes that NO MEANS NO, no matter how much it hurts. And besides, he's a bad ruler. Counts are sworn to protect thier people, he has not done that, and as a merchant I have a particular vendetta against people who break contracts.
Did you make a foil character for strahd?
*This.* This is almost exactly how Strahd should be, and that campfire story idea has given me inspiration to tweak how I plan to introduce Strahd for real to my party. I always planned on using the Gertuda minor side quest to demonstrate to the party how cruel he really is. By, instead of the party meeting an illusion of Strahd, Strahd actually sits down to dinner with them and has a conversation, complete with entertainment. During the dinner, Strahd would call upon Gertruda, who has been learning dancing lessons from some of the castle staff, to perform for the guests.
Only. Gertruda would be *exhausted,* stumbling more and more often, and every step she took would be on feet made bloody by popped blisters and bruised, raw skin. The important thing to note is that she's not charmed. She genuinely believes that Strahd wants her to become a good dancer and that this is the only way to do it - to suffer agonizing pain for her art. Any chance that the players would interrupt the performance, Strahd would start emotionally manipulating *her,* watching their reactions and *relishing.* Make it clear to them that any protestations they give to him are only going to be used to hurt Gertruda. Even if they succeed in convincing Strahd to allow her to/convince her to rest, she refuses to leave the castle willingly and is just going to be taken away further into the castle.
I can't wait. >:D
I need a way to turn this into "the party are just members of the IRS, going to check on straud because of all the taxes he forgot to pay"
Please help
That's hilarious good luck with that.
I have no clue but I just want you to know that's a great idea.
The players are the IRS, and Strahd is an Anarco-Capitalist who sees all taxation as theft, except the taxes he forces everyone in Barovia to pay him. After all, he's providing them a valuable service of not making their lives miserable. Well, more so than they already are, anyway.
I'd recommend not showing that he taxes the nearby people until after he has met with the players and given them a "taxation is theft" speech. Even if your players agree with his arguments, no one like a hypocrite so they'll still try to collect.
For an even better twist, have the players learn shortly after they've defeated Strahd that his taxes on the common people were a lot lower than what they're about to be, now that the IRS has run the numbers of what they REALLY make.
Player Characters: "Strahd! It's time to pay your overdue taxes!
DM as Strahd: NO! You bloodsucking unholy abominations of the shadows will get nothing from me!
Also DM: *Running out of the room and locking the door behind them (or just turning down the volume these days) before the players can finish processing what just happened.*
Except who would be the hegemon to make him beholden to tax collectors.
Being an alternate dimensions, and even feudal nobles-especially if they are local tax collectors-have to beholden to central authority, including taxes collected from peasantry in his lands.
Also, he's a vampire an undead and vampires are just soulless twisted husks of their former self so...it may not be possible to redeem them
Well, there's Zariel who's a DEMON so, eh, might be possible, but the odds are REALLY against you.
@Natasel LE. Also a leader of a Layer of 9 Hells so...
@Natasel Depends on character. Also, other stuff happens Descent Into Avernus. I don't want to spoil much, but things go down and there's more than one way to deal with things.
Completely different game and completely different character flaws:
In Vampire: The Masquerade, in the first and second edition of Chicago by Night, there is a particular vampire that reminds me very much of Strahd in the way that he believes himself to be a tragic figure (his name is Khalid and he is fucking terrifying but also hilarious in his self sabotage). Khalid is an elder vampire that has been trying to achieve Golconda (vampire zen plus actual repentance for one’s wrongdoings). He has a Humanity rating of 2 (if you reach zero, you are a monster that baths in guts and gore and runs around killing people) and regularly loses his shit. He thinks he’s a swell guy and will even act that way towards those he meets, but he never realizes that he is actually a really terrible person. This is a guy, mind you, that watched two children get abused by their parents, watched it with all of his power that he had to prevent it, and only when they retaliated and killed his parents did he introduce himself (and turned them into vampires and left them to live in the house with the ghosts of their dead parents). All in all, I love this character trope to death, if you can’t tell. There’s a scary amount of people in real life who behave like Strahd and Khalid.
When do we start simping for Tasha?
You're already late to the party
three more months when her book comes out we start
Always, hideous laughter is an amazing spell.
One of my friends has already started proclaiming that she wants Tasha to step on her
what's tasha's deal?
I actually used a combination of calm emotions, suggestion, and a stupidly persuasion check to force Strahd into a situation where he sees the error of his ways then the DM completely flipped the script, and had us working with Strahd to defeat the dark powers. It was an amazing campaign that ran for almost a year, and by the end of it Berovia was returned to the prime material plane.
I play Sergei and part of his motivation (aside from saving all the people and the land) is to put Strahd out of his misery. He loves his brother (despite being murdered by him) but recognises that he’s completely beyond redemption and that giving him more of a chance than he’s owed isn’t worth risking the lives of others
I see Strahd as similar to a figure in the greek underworld (i.e. Tantalus, Sisyphus, etc.). His prison is technically self-made, with his personality being used to trap him in an eternal punishment. Getting away is simple if you're looking at it clinically, but because the prison was designed for him by dark powers who know him better than he knows himself, he's never going to willingly end his own curse.
But, as Vladimir Horngaard might say, that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it.
@Natasel Well, one who simply won't let it happen, despite all your best efforts.
@Natasel Honestly that's sort of the best part of the Amber Temple though. It's designed as a trap for the PCs in order for the bigger bad to get a new hamster.
That's basically what ALL of the Darklords of Ravenloft are dealing with. Trapped in a Hell of their own making.
There’s a sort of psychosis that often goes with immortal characters in fiction where their character development is essentially paused, either their personality doesn’t change because they are unchanging or their character develops so slowly that no one can really notice it. Personally I feel like Strahd fits into this pretty well.
It kinda makes sense, the ability to eventually die is something that some believe is what furthers behavior change in humans, thus, an individual without the certainty of death will be unable to advance.
@@kenneth_mata That's a good point. Part of charge is developmental progress, too. I bet you wouldn't start feeling like a grandpa after 100 years, if you still looked and felt like you were 25.
My preferred way to play Strahd is a warlord groomed from birth to lead armies, and was never taught to just be a person. So when he won, he didn't know what to do with himself. When he fell in love, he approached it the same way he does war, trying to find the correct strategy to win. During the actual game, he's been playing with the party sure, but he treats it like a war, he constantlt strategises on how to undermine the party and believes these strategies will win him the war and thus Ireena.
He's calculating, cruel and is a monster. He doesn't know how to be a person, and he's never even bothered to learn. In m game, he wouldn't have fell if not for the dark powers. Heck, he may have even learned to be good. But once he fell, it's his fault he fell as far as he has and hasn't tried to rise back up again.
I like more complicated villains, so I spread the blame of Strahd's fall across his friends, parents and the dark powers. Everything after that is on Strahd's head.
I also used the interactive tome of Strahd to actually affecr and change Strahd if they wanted to. I treated it as a magical imprint of his memories, so anything they did in there he remembered. So while they couldn't have changed the past they *could* have used it to teach present day Strahd how to be better, and with immense difficulty redeem him.
Because if that's the story they wanted to play through, I am more than happy to facilitate. Luckily for me, they *didn't* do that.
You’re right about him and it makes me kind of sad because there’s a chance the players can find him weeping on his brother’s coffin and I always liked the idea that this was the one thing he truly regretted
Strahd isn't sympathetic, but with his whole backstory at your fingertips, he is pitiable. And not the "aww, poor you" sympathetic pity, but the "wow, you're so pathetic its sad" kind.
On the topic of the Demiplanes of Dread, only one person that was ever trapped in one ever became self-aware enough to actually escape it, and that was Soth. Admittedly, his crestors had never intended him to end up in one and kinda hated that he got put there, so that feels more like a victory for them. I would also say Soth is probably closer to being a sympathetic character than Strahd ever was.
While I agree about Soth you forget one other being that was for a time a resident of the Domains of Dread. That being the God Vecna. Before he gained full god status the then Demigod failed an attempt at becoming a full god and ended up in the demiplane with the one guy he hated the most domainlord of the neighboring domain, Kas the betrayer. HE of course escaped and eventually became a full god but still for a time he was trapped there. Oh and Kas ended up as an entity called a vestige and stuck between planes so I am not sure that could be considered escaping fully. You could make an argument that Azailen also escaped for a time but he ended up back ruling Darkon and plotting the destruction his creation stuck in the former capital of Darkon when it became the domain Necroplis.
I have loved turning Strahd into a true evil tricking people that he is apathetic. I played him as this tragic lover who was mis understood. Tricking players into think he could be reasoned with. He played the perfect nice guy, even invited them to diner and they accepted at the end of dinner he finally told them what or should I say who they were eating, the children the players saved earlier on in the campaign. That's how evil Strahd is, the players tried to kill him there but just weren't powerful enough. Strahd allowed them to leave the castle after beating them just so he could watch them suffer after consuming what they ate. Sometimes there are just pure evil people in the world there is no negotiating with them. My players always tried be sympathetic try to see why a bad guy was bad. This was the game that showed them that there is nothing complex, he is just pure evil and enjoys watching others suffer.
That assured
Strahd: “Everybody betrayed me! I’m fed up with this world. you’re tearing me apart, tatyana!"
So Strahd is Tommy Wiseau? You magnificent bastard.
@@TimeLord675 that's how i would DM him
In older editions, the Ravenloft books specifically stated that admitting fault and atoning for them will get a darklord out of their domain no sweat, but none of them are willing to do that.
I know that Strahd isn't sympathetic, I've read "I, Strahd". He forces a guy to strip naked before decapitating him in front of an audience over TAX FRAUD, all of the villagers live in fear of him, hell, some commit suicide to try to enter death's arms and escape but they just get reincarnated instead. Ravenloft is a world where the children are too afraid to play on the streets because Strahd dosen't protect them from the big evil monsters that live in the woods, and he frankly dosen't give a damn if someone's child gets eaten by one of the horrors that live in the woods. He's a lot like The Computer from "Paranoia", exept not comedic at all.
My TH-cam recommendations brought this video just to call me out, I _swear._ Good video, man! Strahd is _very much_ a vampire's vampire, not a subversion. As another comment said, the guy's a tragic character, not a sympathetic one. After watching/reading an old Greek tragedy, one probably feels bad for the main tragic character's sucky situation, but it's still very clearly the character's own fault and not just a minor whoopsie that was 100% out of their control. There's a difference between "broken" and "evil", and when a character voluntarily traps an entire town in an eternal cycle of pain and despair just because Becky wouldn't let him smash, I'd say they under basically all situations qualify as "evil" now.
My character in the currently on-indefinite-hold Curse of Strahd game I'm playing in is still definitely going to try and get our favorite shitty vampire pretty-boy to stop being terrible and try to be middlingly decent, but honestly since he's an all-loving hero type and also a 12-year-old ghost child raised on the kinds of stories where such a tactic 9 times out of 10 _works,_ it's hopefully clear that he'd do this for _any_ adversary and not just Strahd.
Natasel It’s because of the reincarnation cycle. Some souls are just worn too thin being reborn and having the spirit beaten out of them by the despair of Barovia again and again, to the point that they practically don’t exist. There’s a reason the Main NPCs™ don’t suffer this effect considering they have near constant interaction with would-be heroes to pump them full of hope (even if/when they ultimately fail) every reincarnation.
Was not aware that Strahd could actually leave. I was under the impression he had to find a replacement for that. Really puts an addition degree to his evilness. Thank you.
He can't leave, chappy is just wrong. Not the only thing in this video that's blatantly off base or just false though, to be fair
Do people feel bad for Strahd? Like the people who originally created Strahd said he was a fantasy version of a serial abuser. I'm of the mind that everyone can be redeemed, but the dude killed and ate people because his crush didn't like him? Come on.
I imagine some of them are people who dont know much about Strahd out of game or ingame. (Only know the name, is vampire lord of darkness, bare bones info)
Ingame that can be forgiven if your character trys to help or redem people, but i have issues believing their own and their character's opinion of Strahd would remain the same once they found out the truth.
If they somehow still feel pity for the guy, id be somewhat worried for them.
Some people have seen too many stories where deeply unhealthy relationships were glorified. When they see what looks like the same set up in a story that doesn’t glorify the toxic relationship, they don’t understand what makes it so bad.
@@peterwhite6415 Here's the thing. You don't have to approve of everything a person has done in order to empathize with them. I pity Strahd. His parents basically used him as a soldier/military commander, they sent him against foes that he didn't have any real chance of winning against in a fair fight, so he had to do horrible things to survive and carve out territory for himself. Then, after he spent his youth going through hell to claw himself into relevance, he invites his parents to come to his domain, they bring along a pampered younger brother, who has never known hardship; Who has never had to go to war, or kill to survive.
I can understand why he has a complicated relationship with his family. He loves Sergei, but he also resents him. He loves his parents, but feels like they used him.
Does that justify what he eventually did? No, obviously not. At the end of the day, Strahd is a monster, but I can understand why he did what he did, even if I don't condone it.
Probably because people are playing the fifth edition Curse of Strahd module not playing the fucking 37 year old campaign. Chris Perkins, the literal project lead *of the actual adventure people play* said " He's meant to be a tragic character and you're supposed to feel for the guy but he's also lived too long and needs to die". This is how he was written for the fifth edition Curse of Strahd that people play, how he was originally created 37 years ago is less relevant.
@@CatacombD Well said!
Strahd is a creepy dude and I too would throw myself from a tower before giving him the time of day
Strahd leads with a very powerful argument that his punishment doesn't match his crime, and thus his fate is not worth the effort - a very powerful and common feeling most people have likely encountered or considered. It is what he has done after, and how its defined him, that gets revealed through the module which makes it so damning. That said, it would be interesting to play with the idea that Sergei was the vile and controlling brother, mislead Tatiana, and Strahd was the cordial and nice one but in the end committed an evil deed to try and subvert his brother's petty actions.
I tried playing curse of Strahd once, the DM (who is a friend of mine) didn’t read ahead in the module and had no idea how to play Strahd. What ended up happening is we only really did one thing and that was head straight for the tome as that was our only real objective, somehow on the way there we encounter Strahd not once but twice and never even saw a trace of his brides or henchmen. Once we got the book and headed elsewhere Strahd shows up again and blows up our carriage with a fireball. We all know that there isn’t anything we can do to fight him (were level 4) so we pretty much just stood by and watched what him, when we realize he can’t be reasoned with I toss the book into the burning wreckage. He proceeds to cast blight on me (I’m a sorcerer so I don’t exactly have a lot of hp) so I fail the save and am about 11 damage away from just instantly dying. He then snatched up the book that apparently didn’t burn from the wreckage and flies off. We knew we weren’t supposed to say his name so we didn’t, not even once, he just kinda knew where we were for some reason.
There was no session after that.
wow, that's really stupid.
Try again with a better DM sometime.
This breaks my heart a little. Curse of Strahd is a very good module with the right DM.
If it gives you any peace, he does have a way to track where the party is
So Strahd is an immortal vampire incel... got it.
Simpathetic: Simping interpreted as sympathy by Simps.
I mean, did no one read the journal he had and realize how batshit crazy he is
I’m still new to dungeons and dragons so this entire video is just a big meme for me. What’s in his diary?
@@CombatSportsNerd just his obsession with Tatiana, his hatred of his brother and hiw he's liable to murder both. Plus how he contacted the dark powers that be
Natasel
Oh god that’s all kinds of fucked up lmfao
Wing ZX1103
That dude Needs a therapist
@@CombatSportsNerd that is a pure understatement right there. Hell the abbot and Rahadin are the closest he gets to one. Especially with Rahadin being his Alfred to Strahd's batman
To be fair to Strahd, before he died and was rez’d as a vampire by the dark gods of ravenloft that he had anger issues and was actually working to manage them in life. As well as him being obsessive. But when he became undead he became completely unable to acknowledge these flaws and is unable to let the perceived slight his brother did to him by having Tatiana love him more go. But that was AFTER he defenestrated her and killed his brother (not particularly in that order) and was then killed by his Castle guard on order of his I think father I don’t really remember.
Edit To remove a second comment: To be clear about a points you make at 4:09 the way it’s written at least in the new edition version of curse of strahd is that dude has vampirism he is completely unable to acknowledge any of this. Vampirism apparently affects you in such a way that you cannot experience positive emotional growth or emotion in general love becomes lust or obsession in the case of the titular vampire. Positive emotions become their negative counterparts. To be fair I do agree with the fact that he could leave whenever the hell he wants it’s just that he doesn’t want to
Natasel e5 curse of strahd I may be miss remembering things of the events of his death
One of the most intriguing ways to use a vampire is to have them be both tragic and irredeemable. The anime Demon Slayer does a really good job of this (shut up they're basically vampires). This seems like an interesting way to play Strahd; he had his faults, certainly, but he wasn't planning to become the monster he became, he was just playing with powers he didn't understand. That said, he cannot now be saved and is a being of pure evil.
But Davvy, we only Simp for you?
Well if he breathes he's a simp and we all breathe. So might as well simp for DnD daddy.
I always found The Devil Strahd[spits] to be a facinating character study. He went from a midly Bloodthirsty Middle-aged man going through a Midlife crisis(a certain sign of which is lusting after a MUCH younger "Partner") to a Highly functioning Sociapath who likes to play mind games. By the time Curse of Strahd starts, i don't think he even CARES about Tatyanna anymore, he's just after her reincarnations cause she's the one think he can never get(no matter WHAT he does)...
But does he shop at Hot Topic and listen to Linkin Park.
I love the Devil May Cry avatar here. It shows a lifetime of experience.
I've unironically done that. Still do, actually. I haven't actually gotten any vampiric powers yet, though.
“A martyr for his own misdeeds” isn’t that antithetical to the idea of a martyr?
It plays with the idea that Strahd thinks he is a tragic character.
I’m DMing CoS soon and when I read the book, Strahd gave me no sign of being sympathetic. Especially because it’s lined out in “how to play him” that he is not one to be reasoned with. He’s Lawful Evil...
There's a big difference between a sympathetic character and having sympathy for a character.
A sympathetic character has traits we can relate to, while having sympathy means we feel like we've been in their situation.
Strahd was once a man, who was rejected by the person he loved (whether that love was healthy or reciprocal isn't the point). We've all felt rejected at some point.
But we don't sympathize with killing your brother, attempting to force his girlfriend to marry you, or keeping a bunch of people locked in eternal torment because of your dumbassery.
I've always like this idea of strahd being "You'd be a fine dude. Not particularly good but maybe a fun npc to see every so often IF YOU COULD JUST TAKE NO FOR A FUCKING ANSWER"
This is something that I try teach my players when I run Vampire the masquerade games.
"You are the bad guy, no mater how you justify it to yourself, if you play this game with this character, you need to be willing and ready to see all your plans be twisted by your own horrible nature."
My favorite thing about Strahd is he Midlife Crisised himself into vampirism.
Man, I’m so glad someone else shares my views on Strahd. Nobody else in my dnd group did. They got SUPER pissed when I refused to try and redeem strahd in our game. I wasn’t sure why they got so mad irl but now I can see why. They simps.
I remember back in the 90s, my GM (who was of the Gygax-style "GM vs Players" type) throwing a bunch of low level (like... 4th? I think) characters into Ravenloft. Strahd never came across as having any redeeming qualities.
And after I got old, got away from the toxic group, and studied the lore... there still weren't any redeeming qualities. The entire setting is a bunch of emo assholes that are so evil that they dragged a shitton of innocents into their own personal hells.
I keep telling my players that strahd is pitiable, in the sense that you kinda feel sorry for his suffering and that maybe things could've been better, but over all he's an evil sack of garbage and he mostly deserves everything he gets including the suffering. All he wants is to drag others down into his miserable level. In a lot of ways he's a lot like DIO from Jojo, just a vile brute pretending to be a man of sophistication. Heck I based my strahd around DIO including the voice and memes lol
Time Stop powers included?!
Your take on Strahd is spot on, but I note a number of what would seem to be glaring inaccuracies when compared with my understanding of the character, which was built from pretty much every Ravenloft product from 1st edition through 3rd edition, and having watched a couple of playthroughs of the 5th edition module, which can likely be chalked up to the changes they've made for the 5e module. The Shadowfell is a Forgotten Realms thing, only part of the default cosmology because with 5e they made Forgotten Realms the default setting. Everywhere else, it's the Demiplane of Shadow - yes, it's not even a proper plane. Ravenloft, or more accurately, the Realm of Borovia, exists as part of the Demiplane of Dread, strongly influenced by the Demiplane of Shadow, perhaps, but not part of it. Also Strahd absolutely can NOT leave, the Dark Powers will never be done with him, they keep him prisoner here, much as they do Lord Soth. Other than these differences there doesn't seem to be much difference between the metaphysics and Strahd's circumstances between editions. CoS greatly expands upon the old module I6, of course. Also, that's a great scene with Strahd you came up with this there, think I'll steal it like all good DMs.
Additional note: the change to whether he can actually leave may have been an intentional move to make sure ppl didn't find him sympathetic. Sadly this failed, but...
You know what would be a big middle finger to Strahd? Making Tatyana fall in love for your character and to add salt to injury, even more if your playing a monk.
I never knew anyone considered Strahd sympathetic. Since 2nd Edition, I thought they'd done a good job writing a back story that killed any sense that he might be redeemed.
I always thought that the sympathetic reading on strahd was an intentional part of the module so that the vampire king could manipulate and corrupt the part.(if a DM wanted to go that way)
Strahd Meets Dio I wonder how that will go
i know thats not what you mean, but when you said "Dio" i automatically though about the singer
Considering there’s that one dungeon where a steamroller instantly kills the party if you’re unlucky (no save given) Dio would probably win, but in a completely fair fight it sort of depends on if Dio has the world and or his vampire abilities; with both Strahd is most certainly dead, with just one it can vary but as long as Dio can stop time there isn’t much that Strahd can do.
I left my friend's curse of Strahd game when he started this. It began when he said that he was going to rewrite sections of the module (mostly the stuff that was hard limits for the players such as an obnoxious about of dead children and the subtle racism with the Vistani).
I knew something was off when he mentioned that the Brides of Strahd were good; that Baba Yaga wanted to help the party; and that even Strahd wanted the Death House eliminated. All of these strange small things that just didn't feel right. It turns out, in his Curse of Strahd, Strahd is just a tool of the Dark Powers. He also kept throwing in Azalin Rex from Darkon as well and things just became so confusing and over the top graphic I just had to walk away.
Its refreshing to know that Strahd was intended to be an evil character and I'm glad you made this argument. I have no idea why some people -want- to make him into this complex character...
So I’m totally stealing that first Strahd encounter, absolutely amazing breakdown of why Strahd is not a poor heartbroken soul, he is the one who breaks the souls of anyone foolish enough to fall for his self-pity
Strahd: "Bleh, vould you like to go home? Bleh, write down your answers on these slips of paper, bleh..."
Me, a 6 INT barbarian: "What is writing?"
My group keeps calling the module “Curse of Simp” because of his incel-type behaviour towards Tatyana.
I mean I genuinely sympathize with him even though he doesn’t deserve it
The tragedy of Strahd is laid out in his diary. He says "the war years and the killing years wore down my soul as the wind wears stone into sand" and "my youth had left me" and "she could see death in me". The tragedy is that he was destroyed by the military life he inherited from his father. Losing any faith in his ability to come back from this, he instead leaned further in and made the pact, from then on being truly evil. The tragedy is one of a broken soldier who was once good. If you cant find any reason to be sympathetic towards him it's because you're not looking far enough back
Question why doesn’t he just brainwash her with magic vampires pretty much explicitly have that ability
Virgin Strahd-
Became a vampire because he wanted immortality to solve his mid-life crisis.
Simps over a woman who threw herself off a cliff (Strahd was being a creep).
Wants to marry a "reincarnation" of that woman (obsessive).
Stuck in Barovia.
Has to shift his face to be presentable.
Chad Vlad von Carstein-
Founder of the von Carstein bloodline because he impressed best queen Neferata.
Married and power-coupled with Isabella von Carstein.
Almost conquered Altdorf (pretty impressive for the capitol of the Empire).
Better ruler than most Sylvanian lords.
Looks like a rotting corpse, still acts polite
Im well aware of this. One of my fav jokes with describing strahd is to tell my friends "AND THEN STRAHD PULLS OUT HIS BEST FEDORA..."
And I love him 😆
The writers of Strahd said in the book he is an allegory for spousal abuse and to be a spousal killer. Pretty self explanatory
This is also why I really hate the 'female Strahd' thing that's been thrown around so much these days. I just cannot view it as anything but "I simp for Strahd but can't squint past all the rapey, homicidal, sociopathic stuff, so I'll make him a woman because women are inherently sympathetic and can't do REALLY bad things." It's extremely sexist in both directions AND completely misses the point of the character. At least the simps who keep him male are merely missing the point without being massive bigots to boot.
There's a book, Vampire in the Mists, twas an interesting read...
...by the end you are 100% sure Strahds an unreddeemable person.
But there are also I, Strahd novels, in which he is quite a hero. I actually think that all in all, he is the best available ruler for Barovia. He protects the land, upholds the law, punishes criminals, and law abiding citizens have no cause to fear him. Barovians should actually be glad that they have him :)
The way I always rationalized why Strahd or any vampire is incapable of personal growth or finding peace is that once they become undead, their personality is frozen in time. Who they were, the choices they made that led them to damnation - those flavors are locked in, as if they were sold a Tupperware coffin. That's part of the curse of seeking immortality that way: they wanted to live forever, and so they become snapshot of who they were in that moment of weakness, forever. This is they are almost always incapable of changing their attitude and repeat echoes of the same actions - Strahd, for instance, sought after Tatyana, and so he's forever seeking new brides. But notice that the term is always "brides" and never "wives" - for them to be a 'wife' and not a 'bride' would suggest that he was capable of moving forward.
The way I see it is.
-Yeah have pity for the guy.
- Yes he is a Tyrant, Maniac, sociopath, Dangerous, the worst, etc.
- No his punishment are not outmatch.
- there's no redemption for him. Only punishment.
You can feel pity for someone like that while at the same time feel that there should be some Justice that should happen. I think you see too much as black and white.
A fearless vampire killer you say?
*Total Eclipse Of The Heart Intensifies*
I think you missed one of his more sympathetic elements. He inherited his father's war from a younge age, was forced to fight and by the time he had finished, his youth was long gone. Strahd has an intelligence of 20, hes a genius. In another life, he could have been a brilliant poet, scholar or artist, but his life was wasted on a war that wasn't his.
I feel like "You have my sympathy- because you are so blind towards what you have done." might sum it up, from what I can tell
Dumb and random fact:
I'm currently playing a game of curse of strahd and my character is a vistani worlock who made a deal with the morning lord to never leave berovia until he has helped the party kill strahd, because of this, he can't drink wine in is forced to eat apples as a substitute.even having withdrawal symptoms.
Also he can't use visani curses
Ah, so he’s not sympathetic....
He’s SIMP-athetic
honestly i always wanted him to find out he is a character in a D&D module.
So he basically DIO but without a stand, a cool voice or a muscular body that he stole from his adopted brother.
I still remember the only time I ever ran Curse of Strahd. From the moment I started planning how to portray the big dumb vampire, I knew how I was gonna spin it. In short order, Strahd as I depict him is more of a Joffrey than he is a Tywin. He's arrogant, pompous, vain, petulant, and really just a huge spoiled brat with a god complex. I've never had more fun portraying a villain.
We just dunked on him with incel jokes.
The closest point Strahd ever gets to realizing what he is becoming is before he even becomes a vampire all the way back when he wrote the Tome of Strahd. And after he acknowledges that he changed from the war he just goes on and learns nothing from that realization.
Strahd is a monster. He is a toxic relationship blown up into a CR 15 BBEG.
Strahd is honestly the pinnacle of vampirism, becoming a vampire costs you your soul and twists all positive emotions into negative
Love becomes obsession
Admiration becomes jealousy
Fear becomes paranoia
Self loathing is redirected outwards
Guilt becomes blame
Dislike becomes murderous hate
Thats how I think of Strahd, I believe he was a creepy guy, he made the deal to make her love him, became a vampire, his admittedly twisted emotions were corrupted further which made him murderous and unstable
He was a bad man who was driven further into depravity by poor decisions and desperation
I'm an Elder Scrolls Legends veteran, I know that this is 2:25 baron of tears, and he is a dark elf not a vampire. Still, fits the visual.
My friend did an *amazing* job making strahd seem like a tragic hero giving us tidbits of his story throughout the campaign, then we found out what his whole story was, then we found out he was actually just a jealous dick
It was such a great moment when he did the reveal
I brought him in in person far too late in the story, he flew over Yester Hill to go stare off into the mists, and he came to watch the battle for a bit after he heard the wizard break the gulthias staff. He amusedly said they seem to have everything taken well care of, and reminded them of the dinner invite. The warlock was the first to pipe up in response saying they would accept the invite, so I charmed him to make sure he meant it.
I realized Strahd has a good hook into each PC; the warlock is a noble, the vengeance paladin is a great warrior, the ranger is a native of Barovia (and he died and got a Dark Gift), the wizard seeks knowledge and wants to leave (maybe Strahd just lets him leave!), the bard is ambitious and pervy like all bards, and the grave cleric is a bit too interested in necromantic spells.