1970s British Schools | British education in the 70s | Comprehensive schools | Could do better |1977
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2021
- Tony Bastable takes a look at the differences between the new comprehensive schools and the traditional grammar and secondary modern schools. And asks the question - do you get as good an education at a Comprehensive. Opinions are divided
First shown: 26/05/1977
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As a shy child lacking in confidence my education 78-83 at a comp was a disaster. Teaching was poor. Support was poor. Standards were poor. Classes were disrupted. The teachers just focussed on the O level pupils who were likely to go to Uni. The rest of us? The teachers couldn't care less. Left at 16 with poor CSE's. Took me years to get back on track and get qualified. Ridiculous education ideology. Pity teachers weren't accountable back then.
Real journalism on display here! No qualms discussing the drawbacks of the egalitarian system, or admitting that some students are more able than others. Most nowadays dismiss out of hand the possibility that gifted working class students did better under the grammars. We ought to return to a form of debate like the one shown in this video if we are to address the ills of the present system.
Good point
Grammar schools always favoured middle class society.
people did at the time; there were many studies 1950-64 that showed that grammar schools damaged the chances of most pupils.
I went to a comprehensive school I just feel I only got the support needed in my last year sadly the school I attended they tried to cater for everybody this was very upsetting especially when you had students with behaviour issues who clearly needed specialist teaching who would disrupt the classes diverting the teachers attention from those of us wanting to learn and go far .
I went to a very poor school too in Bedford, that was similar to your one. Very disorganised, loads of kids misbehaving, loads of kids with mental issues, loads of kids who had problems of some sort going on at home, not enough learning in lessons and not enough homework. I should've had a teaching assistant sitting with me in every lesson, because of my autism and learning difficulties, but half of those lessons I didn't. Every time I was bullied for having learning difficulties or if something else unfortunate happened to me the school didn't bother to do anything about it. There were also a number of teachers who were very strict or unpleasant or pure lazy.
Luckily I did make some friends and felt more and more happier the four years that I was there.
I came across this video by chance and was struck by the brutal honesty and candor of some of the people interviewed, especially the Headmaster from Spurley High school in Mancester. It was refreshing. These people would be vilified today.
I found him awful. He has thinly veiled contempt for his pupils and their families.
I went to a similar school in the north west in the 80's . My working class parents sent me and my siblings there, because it was local, not because they didn't care about us. Leagues tables and the idea of consumer choice wouldn't have been a concept my parents were too familiar with, so his comments are offensive.
There was a mix of abilities in my school, we weren't all thick with a few bright ones. I was one of the brighter kids that was completely failed by that school, presumably because the head teachers attitude rubbed of on the staff .
Its funny how a kid caught in that system can see the range of abilities and different kinds of families that make up the school, but for someone with power to change it, he chooses to focus on the negative and dismiss everyone as a waste of space.
@@tanamo4632 That was the system back then. I grew up in the 80s too, in the North West. I went to a comprehensive school, where two thirds, if not more of the children, couldn't care less about getting an education and their parents were the same. I was bright, along with about 4 other kids, and even though we were in the top class, of about 32, only 10 had any interest in learning. I remember returning to school after Easter break, we were in the 5th year, so due to take our O Levels, half the class didn't return. Sure some came back to sit their exams. They wrote their names on the scripts then left within 30mins. I heard that was because they wanted to avoid an unclassified grade ie U, but an F was ok. It was hard for teachers back then, so yes I like the honesty of the Head at Spurley High, he and his staff most like were insulted if not assaulted every day by pupils, and sometimes by their parents. This was my experience so just saying.
@@Coco-uk9tv He's honest in his contempt for his working class pupils and their families.
I went into my comprehensive a bright kid and came out with zero GCES and you would have probably dismissed me as couldn't care less kid, left school and retook them and went on to university, the first in my family and probably the only one in my school peer group. Why had school failed to motivate me, but a local community college did ?
I wasn't a couldn't care less kid, I was stuck in system that couldn't care less about me.
Working class passivity comes from poverty, lack of hope and a billion years of being oppressed by the system, it's not because the parents don't give a shit about their kids. That head teacher is just reinforcing it.
@@tanamo4632 So how come immigrant non white families/communities, who came to the UK in the 50s onwards and who also experienced oppression, abject poverty and disdain from certain members of society, raise some of the most highly educated successful people in the UK? Explain why a South Asian man from a poor rural community in India or a West African man from a rural village in Nigeria or Ghana, or a Carribean man from rural Jamaica, can come to England live in poverty, do the jobs that the indigenous people looked down upon yet still raise highly educated and successful children, who went to the same schools as the one featured in the video?
@@Coco-uk9tv as the Head Teacher says in the video, white working class families see schools the same as the Police and rent collectors. White parents do not view the school as a place where their kids learn and improve their circumstances.
Hilariously honest headmaster: “Our kids are dull, their parents don’t give a shit and any decent caring parent would send their kids elsewhere.”
He was a dull Headmaster the school was awful I couldn’t wait to leave and this year the demolished 🥳🎉🍷👍👏
Resign then rather than make an ego trip out of it.
I went to a Comprehensive school, apparently one of the best in the area. But I was an immature, shy, bullied and lost child, and I had few friends. I 'only' got 2 O Levels. The rest of it was a disaster. Even CSE exams I messed up. I just couldn't study, and it was the disruption in class, the large class sizes, the class clowns and there was no time for a dedicated teacher to reach all the pupils. I only grew up after I'd joined the military and at 29, I went to University and got a 2:1. I'm pretty sure that if I'd been educated privately, and in smaller classes, and I'd been encouraged more, I think I would have come out of my shell and believed in myself. At a Comprehensive school, I was a useless, thick, small fish, in a very big pond. For example, I simply couldn't do Maths at all. When I tried Maths again at the age of 34, with a great teacher at evening classes at the local college, I sailed through my GCSE and got a B. It was easy, and I actually enjoyed it. I appreciate however, that some say GCSE exams are a piece of cake compared to O Levels in the mid-1980s. I wonder if anyone would agree with my last comment.
I can't comment about GCSE vs O Level but recently I tried some "A" level maths problems. I was quite proud of myself for getting a correct answer only to find on the marking scheme it was worth one mark. And they tell me exams are getting easier.....
I love this comment Steve. You should be so proud of yourself👍😀
I went to a comp in the North Midlands, which was an excellent school. It was large, around 2,000 pupils. We were streamed into sets for Maths, English and languages. This helped a lot with achieving best results for all. I'm surprised to read other comments which seem to indicate that there was no streaming in various other comprehensives. 🤔 Being such a big school, it had great facilities, especially for music. For period of some 4 or 5 years I had a very worthwhile experience! Of course there were the usual bullies, both staff and pupils! All part of life's rich tapestry. It was very good that I walked home and enjoyed the company of children who perhaps were not as academically gifted as I was, but nevertheless were funny and engaging. As an adult I have very few prejudices and I don't judge books by their covers!
I have always felt that the comprehensive I went to failed me in many ways I was never happy and settled so less academically inclined
What makes you think you would have been happier elsewhere?
@Richard Smith. You and me both. I went to a Comprehensive School 3 years after this documentary. It was violent, with a myriad of social problems (teenage pregnancies, child abuse in the home from the parents and occasionally a teacher at school, and one poor sod had his mum kill herself while he was at school and he found the body) . It damaged my prospects because I got a substandard education because lessons were just the teacher trying to keep control. I managed to drag myself into a Polytechnic, the only one from my class. Comprehensive schools were an obscene experiment that ruined many lives.
I totally agree Richard, I had the same experience. If you were bright and wanted to succeed academically then you were bullied and ostracized at our comprehensive school. It was hard to actually learn anything anyway because of the idiots who were hell bent on disrupting the lesson. I left school at 16 and went to college to do my A-levels. In the college environment I was among pupils of the same ability and so I had a great time and got good grades. It could and should have been like that at school!
@@MrBmd123 Well said, couldn't agree more. It was like that for me also.
@@silverbullet2008bb Totally agree with these comments. I still have an axe to grind all these years later with the system that was in place then. Teachers would regularly leave the class, often for a cigarette or other reason and any kind of anarchy, intimidation or worse would ensue within the room. It doesn't take a brilliant mind to deduce that there is every possibility this would happen. Therefore these teachers were either stupid or didn't give a shit. The state school system is utterly broken - I got my PhD in spite of the state school system and not because of it. They need to broken down into much smaller schools, not the huge comprehensives that turn out too many delinquents and or nervous pedants, neither are good for a functioning society.
Teachers were the difference. Mine, I went to a Comp, went the extra mile to ensure I had the chance to get to Uni. I think only 3 of us got there. All the lads were streamed anyway from the age of 12. There was a 3 tier system within the school. This came out very well in the report. We never mixed. Streamed from the start.
Sounds like selection by ability with extra steps...
In my - huge- year, same, only 3 got into further education, only 2 made it.
@@sirhumphreyappleby8399 crikey, you again! Streaming children works very well, the harder they work the further they go up the ladder. And rest assured the thickest and least able boy at Eton will always earn more in their life than the brightest and most able working class child.
@@tomthomassony8607 Well I would expect him to, but in order for my family to pass on any inheritance I have to let the boy at Eton prosper. Secondly, the argument you make about ability not being linear and therefore it being unfair to test children of age 10/11 could be made at any other age. It would be cruel to test a man of 40, for he might have become a genius by 65? Of course the benefit of selection at such an early age is that you still have something to work with, whereas after a few years of comprehensive school any talent has either become too misanthropic, too apathetic or too dead to be of any use to anyone.
Trouble now is too many are pushed in to university when it really isn't the best course to take . I was always manufacturing skilled inclined and did mechanical jobs and woodworking. When the credit crunch hit I we t into social care and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Went to comprehensive school in the 1970s for a short time.
Standards were awful. There were kids in the class who just didn't want to learn and continually disrupted the class for everyone else.
Then changed to a grammar school and the change was like night and day. People actually wanted to learn and there was much more discipline.
I went to a comp in the 70s. Truancy, violence and bullying were rife. If you were lucky enough to get in the top stream then you could do well and go on to uni. I managed this. If you were in any other stream, teaching was poor, kids had no interest in learning and you stood no chance. I mostly hated the experience. My kids went to private school and that was a lot better. I have to say I don't think private education should be necessary. State schools should be brought up to the same standard as private.
Yes, much I recognise there
Too bad that's not possible due to the very nature of state schools.
I agree wholeheartedly. I had an absolutely abysmal Comprehensive School education - leaving with a single ‘O’ Level. Interestingly, I went on to retake exams, completed a PhD and became a Professor of Medical Education. My daughter went to a private school and had an exponentially better experience.
@@Randgalf Well said.
@@DrUmtombo Well stated.
I think personally a lot of people of my age I went to a comprehensive from 78 to 83 were failed by comprehensives if you weren't that academically bright u were basically left to your own devices while the teacher concentrated on the so called more academically inclined pupils.
Very true
@@deborahjaneapperley1004 hi thanks for your reply. Yes it always amazes me how a lot of academically inclined university students know very little of the basics in life such as how to change a flat tyre as an example I once said to one I knew that he reminded me of samuel pepys he looked at me and said who's samuel pepys. I rest my case. Lol
77-82 your spot on 🇬🇧🍀👍🏼
My 9ld school Spurley Hey. And my old headteacher Mr Jack Schofield. I went here between 1974 and 1979. The lower school which is now a housing estate was on Old Hall Drive and the upper school was on Mount Road. I had a good time here.
I wasted my time in Comprehensive schools - I really tried to work hard, but, there were too many disruptive kids that did not want to be in school and as such made life hell for us kids trying to concentrate at school.
Some kids fought the teachers in class LOL that was fun to watch. Good ole Maggie Thatcher's 1980s schools. What a laugh, but, sadly no serious education was gained unless your parents were filthy rich that they could afford to take you to private school back then, otherwise, suffer like the rest of us.
I respect the headmaster who was in the end of the Video. He was saying the right things and was being honest. Unlike today's headteachers who are politically motivated and act and speak like a politician. say no more.
i had the same problem. i went to technical college after school. I learned more in 3 years than the 5 years i had wasted in a comprehensive. This was because everyone in the college class was there because they wanted to be and wanted to learn. No kids at the back of the class taking the pee out of the teacher and disrupting the other students.
@@insertnamehere5146 Ditto. Very similar experience.
And no school bullies.
I still remember my mate rolling around the floor with the history teacher...they were the days :)
I was one of those disruptive kids and I’m a self-made millionaire now hahaha!!!!!
You also have to consider that teachers are not good enough either.
I went to Spurley Hey in the 80s, it was Gorton! Not the best area in the world, I've not done too bad from growing up around there, Mr Schofield was a cracking headmaster, I always respected him.
I went to a very mediocre primary school in the 1970s. We had no science lab nor science education. I can say that I learned almost nothing except how to read and write. There were no after school clubs, no homework set, no help for the educationally "challenged" nor for the brighter students. My abiding memory is of one class teacher so terrifying one student that he wet himself.
I had the misfortune of attending a large comprehensive in Wales in 1975. I spent 5 unhappy and disastrous years there. I’d have received a better education alone in an igloo.
Thanks Shirley Williams, for giving us comprehensives, never attended one and made damn sure her daughter didn't too. The true hypocrisy of some Socialists.
Damn lib Democrats creating problems before they even existed as a party
Before comprehensives, middle class kids went to grammar schools and the bulk of working class kids dropped out at 14 years old without any educational qualifications. Having reduced grammar schools, middle class families demanded better comprehensive schools. Had they also got rid of private education, the wealthy would have demanded the best education for all children. A good example is what happened in Finland where they outlawed private education. Subsequently, Finland offered world class education to their children.
@@am4793 Soooo politicians who are elected by the people into government are not capable of improving the education system unless wealthier people first sacrifice their children to a bad system - and only then the system can improve? Sounds like the problem is not the schools but the politicians.
@@firelunamoon nope. National wealth is a finite resource. The wealthy want to pay less tax and opt out of society. They use their wealth and influence to lobby and manipulate our elected politicians. If society manages to rope the wealthy together with the citizenry, they will be compelled to act in everyone's interests.
She is not a socialist
I passed my 11+ and automatically went to the local grammar. For the exam, I remember having to learn the difference between grammar and grammer (the latter is a proper noun) along with principle and principal, and the one I always found difficult: practice and practise (verb v noun).
Anyway, it meant I received an education that was superior to that of my two siblings. I then went to university, which was considered a natural progression. In contrast, my siblings went to the local Secondary Modern. My brother and sister still bring this up, as something that was unfair.
And now, I break the rules of grammar, innit. All the time!
Why were you the only child to go to a grammar school ? Was it because the Comprehensive system went into place at a certain year ?
What I like about this vid is the teachers honest views on the Comprehensive system, just think how teachers today would lie when asked the same questions. There's a honesty about the answers given it an adult take when making the vid. Today this vid would be dumbed down and repeat what was said before the break making it twice as long to get the same points across
@Public Enquiry Quite impressive to do that when they haven't been in government for 11 years
David Cameron is definitely to blame for this.
I enjoyed comprehensive school in the 1980s. I got 9 GCSE and 3 a-levels and later did a great degree and got a load of good jobs.
Yes that's most people's experience. Most comps provided a reasonable education.
@@robertstorey7476 I've managed to work in 5 different countries, pick up languages and live fine thanks to it. Many of my mates at school also got on. From Cornwall we all had to move to London then on.
Quality teaching is everything. I should have excelled in English, French, and German (the subjects I enjoyed), but an unruly class made concentration very difficult. In subjects Maths, Geography, and History where expected to struggle, turned out highly successful due to strong, disciplined teaching.
I took an instant like to Headmaster Jack Schofield. Great analysis, no bullshit and he clearly has a warm place in his heart for the community he serves.
As a boy I learnt to sew at Secondary school, a great skill to have. A year later Grange Hill would air on the BBC, portraying Secondary School life that was relatable to my school years😊😊
True, sewing and homemaking are a skill all students {regardless of gender} need to learn as life skills.
Happy days. although the teaching was sketchy. if you did not want to learn you were left to mess around
Which I did. ...
Though I have often regretted. not reaching my potential and getting a career.
Career could be word misleading people from slavery
Yes, I was at a comprehensive from 1987-1992 in the North West and my husband went from 1995-2000 in the South West of the UK; both in urban areas. Both of us were academically bright but weren't 'high fliers across the board' but just below; in both cases they were well catered for as were the disruptive/not bright with incentives. I noticed in English though I was considered a 'high flier'and got free theatre trips to Shakespeare for example, also, an amazing teacher. The teacher makes a huge difference as does the ability to notice and appreciate every child; both the good and bad aspects of their personality. Bullying happens, it happened to both of us and the school(s) chose to blame it on me in my case and brush it under the carpet. Disgusting. I left with one grade A-C (English) but retook all my GCSE's, did A-Levels and I'm currently training as a Speech and Language Therapist. I'm a Teaching Assistant by trade and I vow never to overlook a child in the 'middle'.
I went to three different secondary moderns due to moving house, in the sixties/seventies. The clue is in the name Secondary. The difference in teaching between the secondary schools and the grammar schools was immense. Our teachers were purely 9 to 5 and didn’t care. I had friends in Grammar schools. Their experiences were so much better than ours. The girls were far more attractive, not always in looks but in terms of manners, deportment, social skills. It was obvious we were factory fodder and the grammar school produced managers. It is the old and established double standards. It was apparent that in the main, the grammar school students had more support and encouragement from parents than perhaps we did. I made out ok in the end, I only have myself to blame for not optimising my education, I accept that. Aspects of bullying, abuse was horrendous. The grammar schools had it too but it was less severe and was dealt with. In many cases, particularly in the inner city school I attended, the teachers were sychopaths and were absolutely brutal. Like most of the secondary educated , I grew up hoping I would meet up with those bastards again and deal out some punishment of my own. Luckily I matured enough to control these emotions.
The streaming system in Grammar schools ensured that the children of lesser ability were given fewer opportunities compared to the children in the top stream. The Eleven Plus exam was merely the first of a selection process in education at the time.
I went to a comprehensive in the 70’s... we were all heavily streamed, so all the idealistic mixed ability ethos meant didly squat.
Same here
Yes but at least you would be moved between stream.
I went to one too: the social mix was most evident in non-curriculum activities like school productions or sport. I was moved between streams for maths quite freely which worked well for me. Several of my friends from that comprehensive have gone on to have high-flying academic careers, and it didn’t stop me getting into Oxbridge. I think it’s easy to make the comprehensive system a scapegoat for unrelated problems such as the creation of ghettoes of social housing. We had mostly decent teachers, and usually enough of them. I’m grateful for my comprehensive experience even though it had problems and I got bullied. (Vicarage kid with a lisp, at the time).
I think the 11-plus is a brutal and unfair thing.
@@voiceandbody The 11 plus is brutal and unfair, but life is my nature brutal and unfair - and people need to accustom themselves to this. Sounds like you were basically in the middle class sets at the top of the school, not in a dive comprehensive in a working class district, as most comprehensives have become. Also, the rot had only just set in then, whereas now most people are so poorly educated that even the education given by the secondary moderns looks good.
@@sirhumphreyappleby8399 to determine a child’s academic ability by taking an exam at 10 years old is plain daft. Children develop at different rates and ability is not linear. And today the 11 plus is all about tutoring.
If you’re working class and can’t afford a tutor, your child will simply not pass the 11 plus. Google areas which still have 11 plus and you will see tutoring is an industry. Try “Sutton Surrey Grammar School 11 plus tutors”
All children deserve a good education, the best way to achieve that is to have grammar schools where poor working class kids get a real chance to reach their full potential
Well most of the population disagrees with you, so because we're foolish enough to believe in democracy we won't get that. It's nice to know that all the people who put the policy in place knew exactly what they were doing though.
'the best way to achieve that is to have grammar schools where poor working class kids get a real chance to reach their full potential
'. Except that did not happen when we had the selective system at UK-wide level and in the areas where that system is still in place (NI and Kent), that doesn't happen.
@@MARAK709 Yes it did, and no the example of a handful of heavily besieged grammar schools do not represent what a national system would be entail. Stop lying!
@@sirhumphreyappleby8399 'Yes it did' Evidence?
@@MARAK709 Guerney-Dixon report. A very high percentage of working class children made up the grammar school population. Where is your evidence that the system discriminated against them?
Attended a comprehensive school 2000-2005 DESPISED every minute of it.
Attended comprehensive school's in the 80's I also despised every minute of it. Couldn't wait to leave at 16. Left with no GCSE's to my name!
Part of my school was burnt down coming up to my final year. We had to 3 or 4 days a week before our exams. I don't remember anyone at the time crying out that this would effect our final results.
It's not as though the pupils were going to worry about it at the time.
What I do find strange is that I don't remember any parents taking up the issue ,it seems to have been just accepted.
I went to a comprehensive school in the north east and loved it. The classes where split into 6 groups A-F for English and other subjects,A being the top set and 1-6 for maths. Each year the top /bottom 3 pupils were promoted or relegated depending on percentages of their end of year exams
The comps were brought in by Labour, and the trendy lefty teachers were to blame for the shambolic standards of learning. I went to a secondary modern and was in top set for all subjects and came out with good O levels because I wanted to prove the teachers wrong. . The majority of teachers, male and female, were vicious psychos who thrashed us for nowt and viewed us all as just factory fodder. I got an apprenticeship as a draughtsman in an engineering company and loved it. Today's standard of education in the UK has been dumbed down so much that qualifications are virtually worthless
Good point, but it could be argued that you are someone who was ill-served by the 11+ system (which still exists in certain parts of the country).
Brick in the wall by Pink Floyd must have been written for these places.
Education has not been dumbed down at all. I am sure that the successful A level candidates of today would have done just as well back in the 1970s. The only reason people assume standards have dropped is because of the sheer increase in the percentage of children passing the exams of today. Back in the 1970s only about 10 per cent of teenagers, including myself, passed A levels compared to 50 per cent now. The exams are not easier, it is simply that more people choose to take them now.
@@christophermartin7927 in the 90s at comp we had to take gcses or faced a fine for every one not sat.
@@markcromwell1975 in my day back in the 1970s we had O levels. I sat 8 and passed them prior to doing A levels. Only a few per cent of people at my comp were allowed to sit so many of them as they only entered you for the exams if you were considered suitable to take them.
I started comp in 79. Expelled in 82 and started reform school. That's where my education started.
Comprehensives were heavily "banded" (streamed). Usually 5 or so bands per year. We had a "north" band - 2 classes (usually set 1 or 2 maths/English) and three "south bands" (usually sets 2 to 5). In short - streaming. The top 2 bands effectively grammar in all but name. The bottom 3 bands - effectively a secondary modern. No one from the south band stayed on at 6th form except to re-sit GCSE Maths and/or English. The system was a fudge. With little movement from south band upwards (maybe 2 to 3 pupils). Comprehensives seemed to foster existing differences rather than any real social mobility.
At 8:19 on the video that's my old headmaster Mr Schofield from Spurley Hey High School Gorton Manchester.
I went to Comprehensive school in SE London , and hated every minute , the classes were too big so Teachers had less time to spend with kids who were not as bright as others , myself included . Having to Homework was a burden that should not have been put on kids at such a early stage in our lives . Also there were also kids that were always disruptive in the classes
I'm from SE London, which school did you attend?
@@cableguy786 Crown Woods Comp Eltham
I agree, Chichester High School Boys was a riot. A total disaster.
Shower of Bastards at my Grammar Shool in the 70's failed me completely , used to take me out of assembly because i didnt have the correct uniform on was informed that in my final year they werent allowing me to take any exams because my attendance wasnt up to scratch, still proved them wrong and run my own succesful business, but aged 58 still bitter...
Our comp in northern England was opened by Wilson no less. If you were a visitor you would be shown all the facilities and the classes where the children were working. I wasted 7 yrs of my life there often bored, bullied and definitely not being educated as many of the teachers could not keep us inspired/working. My wife attended the same school then she went to a grammar school to live with her dad. The same school Laurel from Laurel and Hardy attended. She had been the bright child in our school, she was now struggling with the high level of education her new school provided as standard. For many years I assumed those who ran the country didn't know how bad some comps were now I believe they want the lower orders kept in their place. PS Several yrs later the grammar school became a comp and the standards collapsed. I hear a pupil burnt down one of the main school buildings. Our comp, built in the '60s was demolished and left for several yrs as piles of bricks!
As a early generation x'er who went to a comprehensive school from 78 to 83 they were basically still the same comprehensive schools as the boomers went to back in the 60s and 70s
i had cane 37 times because i woudnt snitch. i never once read a book at school. teaching in the 70s was a complete joke.
And the 80s as well
Your comment has a whiff of 嘘 about it.
37 times! I'm surprised you managed to live!
Not sure where you lived or school you went to, but my school education was fine. Ordinary comprehensive too, glad You wasn’t at my school, you sound terrible.
Sounds like it wasn’t the teachers but your behaviour that was a joke. I’ll bet they were all glad to see the back of you when you left!
I was forced to go to a comprehensive school despite passing the exam for grammar school. The school I had to go was a disaster for teaching, size and goals. Hated every minute of the day there. They pulled it down eventually because it was cheap nasty building. My biology book was from 1963, that was the year I was born and went there in 1974. The teachers at my school were the worst of the worst, except for my history teacher.
i failed because i did not like the school system. I moved to Sweden in the 80s, speak four languages now and have a doctorate in medieval history. so Britain failed me in the worst way possible and I have never forgiven the government in the UK for that.
1:53. makes a very interesting point
Hah! I went to a Comprehensive and was mentally abused by the teachers, even so I got a 99% result in a math exam and was told "the only reason I didn't get 100% was that nobody got 100%" I wasn't congratulated or told "well done", 30 years later I was diagnosed with Aspergers, Comprehensive totally failed me
same here
Having grown up in Scotland during the 1980’s-1990’s I can’t say I experienced much of this. However, I now live in England and my child goes to school here. I find the English system very odd…they seems to be constantly fiddling with it to no avail, and that’s the kind way of saying it. It’s actually more like the education system are throwing ideas at the wall randomly and seeing what sticks.
I was 13 in 1977, so this film is very familiar to me. The bit that struck me the most is at 4:15 - This poor girl would be expelled nowadays for lack of PPE, not to mention using a sharp chisel without supervision!
Jesus, what a HSE nightmare those labs were. No labcoats, no safety specs, bottles of what appears to be acid on the table. Asbestos mats, children climbing on chairs to pour solvents into tall funnels etc etc. Those were the days Lol..I started secondary school in 1980 and even we had to wear lab coats and specs.
Our science lesson's in the mid/late 70's were a blast. Quite literally! I hated school, but boy did i look forwards to my 2 science lesson's. Looking back our science teacher was a bloody lunatic. And i loved him for it. He used to mix chemicals and make gas cloud's so thick you couldn't see the ceiling. Exploding test tubes. He even let us play with mercury. In our bare hands LOL! And if you were naughty (like opening the gas taps and lighting them to make a horizontal 4' long flame!) he would throw a lump of chalk and hit you right it in the middle of your forehead! He was awesome!
Busyboy 42 😂😂😂😂😂😂 that's brought back some blinding memories! Almost literally 😂😂
When British education was still victorian in many ways but it was amongst the best. Produced very intelligent and educated people unlike now.
I disagree. My experience was it was pretty brutal. You were labelled from year one. I despised every moment of my secondary education. I just equate it with violence and misery. I remember I only had one ‘O’Level left to take & two months left. My teacher said ‘Why don’t you just leave now?’ I ran out & never looked back! Can you imagine that happening now! Where was my f*cking prom!
No way. It was always awful. The point was that with the empire everyone knew their place, choice and options were limited. The men who dispatched the countless millions to unmarked graves in WWI weren't in my opinion intelligent men.
Wrong,, I went to a comprehensive in the late 70s and it was utter shite
@@donnafartface3905 Even bright men are capable of incredible folly.
Quite, but the socialists couldn't have that though could they, not equalitarian enough for them. No matter the results, they can only see their high bloody principles.
3:17 "Rock on Tommy!!"
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤙🤙👌👍
Ey up there he is 😁
I was in the first comprehensive intake in 1970 for what was previously a secondary modern(Lower scholl). After 3 years we moved up to what was the old Grammar school (Upper School and 6th form). The lower school didnt know how to teach clever kids and by the time we got to the upper school the clever kids couldn't or wouldn't put in the same effort as previous Grammer school kids had done in earlier years.
Brian could make a documentary about how paint dries and it would be entertaining 😊
Many who support mixing of students of all standards of the behaviour have an axe to grind with successful people and are dedicated to making life more difficult for those successful people
Truth
School was terrible for me freezing 🥶 in winter in some portacabin, I think it was New Labour that invested heavily in Schools but I had finished by then, the Schools are so much better today.
You were freezing while you were there, but I bet you learnt something, whereas classrooms these days are over-heated and the children learn nothing.
@@sirhumphreyappleby8399 Yes I learned to get a good winter thermal Coat. 🧥
Alan Watts,
Yes, New Labour were all about Education, Education, Education. And, so they invested in education. The Tories before them under the leadership of Maggie Thatcher, cut back heavily in state education.
@@spidyman8853 Yes I remember her snatching my milk away just like Boris is now snatching away school dinners. 😉
@@spidyman8853 Oh dear, it's the old it doesn't matter what kind of pipe you're using so long as you put loads of water through it argument. You could have as much funding as you liked in the current education system and it would still be woeful, because it's doing the wrong thing.
I was just about to sit my 11+ when it changed to the comprehesive system, I have two older brothers, One went to grammar school the other to secondary modern, So between us we had all three educational systems between us, I was the unlucky one, The grammar school educated brother got a good education that set him up for white collar work and he did very well joining the Inland Revenue at the highest grade after college and his A levels, The other brother who went to secondary modern got an education that set him up for blue collar work and he did well as an electrician earing good wages all his life, His school had a machine shop with metal turning lathes, milling machines, horizontal boring machines, the stuff you would find in a ship yard or a fabrication works, Also welding equipment and a fully equipped woodwork room along with expert painting and decorating courses, So you could wallpaper and paint to city & guilds standards at 14. My education was a joke in comparison and it did nothing to prepare me for the workplace, The comprehensive system gave me the worst of the two previous systems and removed all the benefits that they provided, The comprehensive system might have improved since 1972 but I doubt it, The comprehensive system set the bar so low I did not attend school for the last two years and did no revising at all for my GCE/CSE exams and I passed them all easily.
On a personnel note some of my teachers were so sick of the job they actually to told me they hated teaching me "this useless information" and wished the old system was still in place, Take history, at the time the British were at war in northern Ireland, Not one word of Irish history and politics was I taught, Nothing at all, It was like Northern Ireland did not exist, Instead I got a glossed over history of the Romans in Britain, They had flushing toilets and underfloor heating, yawn-yawn. There was a world map on the wall and the British Empire was coloured pink but it was never explained to how it became pink (mixing Red & White would have been the answer) It was pink and that's all I needed to know, The class sizes were roughly 40 and the teachers seemed to be constantly filling in forms and doing quarterly assessments and the clerical work that was needed to access your progression through the rigidly applied curriculum and not actually teaching. I only spoke to the careers teacher one time and you do not want to hear what he said to me, He was retiring from teaching soon after 40 years as a Grammar school teacher and never got the hang of the comprehensive system, He used to teach Latin and was kept on so he could get a full pension, He would wander around the corridores mumbling insults in Latin to pupils, he was lost and confused, So we did have something in common. . . On a positive note the school I went to now has 570 instead of the 1000 pupils when I attended, 5 schools fed in to it and it was crowded, Bussing kids in from miles away. It was chaotic at best often violent and apathy on both sides (staff & pupils) was the norm, Some of the violence teachers used was extreme. Using brass tipped canes, Leather belts, Wood lats, they all had their own object of torture, At one morning assembly I was lashed for wearing red socks and I had to take them off and walk around all day with no socks on wearing stiff leather brogues (OK that's a stupid thing to mention but I think its a good example as to what was important to these Teachers) On another occasion a teacher punched me in face about 10 times as he held me by my hair from behind, kicking me as I lay on the floor, He dragged me along a 100 yard corridor by my hair to his office for more beatings in private, Some girls I knew started to kick and bang on the door as they looked through the small window in the door, When the teacher went to tell them to go away I opened the window and jumped out of it, That was me and school finished, I was just after my 14th birthday and I weighed 6 stone, The teacher was 40 and 12 stone. ( I later found out that the beating was pre-arranged by 2 teachers and a classmate, G.O.)
I hated that school and when I drive past it now I laugh at the picture of me climbing out that window and running off across the school field and jumping the fence to freedom at the cricket nets as I stuck up two fingers and shouted "F***k off" as the teacher screamed "come back here boy at take your punishment like a man" After a few weeks the wag-wife came to my house pleading with me to go back, (The Teacher sends his apologies I was told, NOT ACCEPTED especially from someone else) I told her "no chance, its over, go away and don't come back" she left saying something about my parents might have to go to court (I nearly lost it at that point) She never came back, so passing my exams was a great feeling. . .They tried everything to de-educate me, One thing that happened to me and possibly no other person ever, Teachers beat and lashed me for what I did when not at school, evening times and weekends and during the summer break, I lived 4 miles from school and thought what I did on my time had nothing to do with them, But they said it did. .Sorry for the long comment but your education is so important it can't be a one-line comment
The 'wag-wife' ? Sounds like the title of a book, you must write it
I never had a problem with my school in NW London. Yes they were large but a lot depends on the teachers and kids.
Quality of staff plus the support and aspirations of parents will always govern the success of any pupil or school more than any system. Fortunately went to an excellent Comp. which seemed to work well across ability streams . The head of the Manchester Comp. featured compares very favourably with the Rt. Hon. Gavin Williamson.
But you need comparable abilities to make progress. I don't believe that plonking the bottom 20% in with the top 20% raises progress. It's misguided. The bottom 20% won't keep up with the top 20% unless you slow down or hinder the top 20%? So where is the 'progress' going to be found?
Mind-blowing to think the young woman at the beginning of the video must now be around 70!
The oddest part of my Comprehensive School Education is i can never remember mine or anybody else`s name being called out at morning or afternoon registration. Other incident`s yes involving choice of options in my 3rd year,School trips and new friends but the necessary everyday mark of my excellent attendance still evaded`s my logic.
well the reason for that cud be everyone in my class was given a number and you shouted out the number not your name
Much simpler times.
Not really.
For whom?
I think it depended very much where the comprehensive schools were geographically.
If they were in already rundown inner city areas where there was already and atmosphere of decay, hopelessness and a feeling that you “couldn’t escape the lot that life had dealt you and that was where you’d stay forever”….then the schools were terrible too.
I grew up in such an area in South London in the 70s and all my close friends ended up going to those Comprehensive Schools….and never got much from them.
I was fortunate enough to be bright enough to win a place, under the old Direct Grant system, to a much better school (now fully private) in South London. In the end, I didn’t do that well in my A-levels. But, the school taught me a self-discipline and self-expectation to try again and again and never give up.
I ended up qualifying as a Dentist and then later as a Medical Doctor and having a career as a Surgeon in the NHS. I was the first person from my street to even go to University.
My kids grew up in rural Shropshire and went to the local state Comprehensive which was very good and all three of them did very well and went to University. Two of them got Masters degrees in Engineering and Economics respectively.
So, the concept of Comprehensive Schools isn’t flawed; it was the reality of how they were actioned in the wider social context that caused many to fail their pupils.
Note how they describe the levels of ability. The bright ones, the dull ones and those in between.
The Headmaster at Spurley has a brilliant accent. Although the school is in Manchester he is probably from one of the central Lancashire cotton towns.
Mr Schofield he's my old headteacher still alive and kicking and now in his 90s. He is from Derbyshire.
@@deborahwhitney9427
That is excellent news, Deborah.
Mr. Schofield impacts me in this programme as a 👨 whom is warm, caring, softly-spoken, with a very ❤-rooted concern for the development of the pupils.
Maurice Peston is father of Robert Peston.
Maurice s ideologies led to the holding back of many decent students, culminating in them having their education diluted and spending time with teachers and students with bad habits which is always a negative thing
@@jerryuk93 True. Comprehensive schools and selling off nationally owned industries. Not everything Thatcher did was good.
Robert Peston went to a new comprehensive in London and then to Oxford. Dad Maurice was a Labour party member and was made a life peer. So I suspect Peston junior did have a bit of a leg up.
Prof Maurice Peston at 1:02 is Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery. Where is Felicity Shagwell?
He is a man of mystery as he was educated at two grammar schools, that got him to where he was. One turned into a mediocre comprehensive in the west of Bradford, the other in Hackney turned comprehensive and had to close in 1989 due to terrible results and chaotic classrooms.
11:47 girl wearing a 'Barbarella' jacket! But the pleated front one. We all used to wear them (around here, anyway) 😁 Haven't seen any on vintage sites, but they were ubiquitous. Our school changed from 2ndry mod to comp in 'my year'. Disaster. Teachers tried to teach 2 syllabuses to cover their own backs, both GCSE and 'o' level...results abysmal. Only half a doz stayed for the new 6th form. What used to happen was after the 2nd year kids were picked to go to the grammar. There was always a reserve list. In my case, me, and a mate missed out, as although quite a few opted to stay, there was no reserve list.
Going to a quite appauling comprehensive school in the 1970s (where a young female teacher was expected to put up with young hands wandering up her mini skirt) I remember parents of a boy refused to send him there any longer, the council and police raided their home and the boy was arrested in the bath and slung in an approved school full of criminals.
in the 1960's i went to a secondry modern and it was great for boys ,then in my 4th year it went comprehensive and the standards fell
“Hey, teacher! Leave those kids alone!”
I went to Grammer,secondary and comprehensive schools from 1971 to 1977, bloody awful! Bullying, theft, absence, lefty teachers(corduroy jackets,jeans,flares,sometimes sandals). I detested school, having spoken to many of my old classmates over the years, they felt the same. I was often in trouble for fighting, in the 1960s-70s the authorities were implementing a policy of integrating disabled kids into mainstream education. Downs syndrome, autism,kids with thalidomide and others were picked on remorselessly, beaten up by packs,sucker punched,kicked by moronic bullies. I always ended up standing up for them or fighting the bullies. I was always the protaganist when teachers were complained to.
Why didn't you go to a right wing school then
Any one who calls themselves a socialist should send their children to a comprehensive not a grammar or public school. Corbyn and Chakrabati spring to mind. The teachers from the 1970s were open and frank about education. Nowadays they all talk “political correctness “ and moan about funding. I went to a mixed comprehensive and then at 14 ended up at a secondary modern boys school - the differences in teachers and resources were evident. Our Education system is still rubbish today unless you have money.
2021 and the same issues still prevail in the main.
My story is a bit different. I started drinking when I was 13 I haven't stopped since. Cheers
Having attended Grange Hill, I thoroughly enjoyed myself. You had to avoid Gripper and say 'No' to Zammo but other than that.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The good ole days
Some thoughts:
1) The public disagreed and house prices now allow people to buy the 'quality' of their school
2) We are so lucky these days to internet home-school. It is a genuine and practical solution if you have bright kids
3) The biggest lesson schools have to teach is valuing aspiration and work ethic. It's why so many places fail kids. Comprehensives were like a cancer, introducing the idea to smart kids that you too could be the part-timer popular kid without suffering repercussions in life prospects.
I think these schools mostly did the best job possible, remember a lot of these pupils had a lot hidden problems at home with Mum and Dad, there not really in the best frame of mind for an education, but least most of em got the basics , reading , writing, and maths!
i went to Grammar school and left in the mid 90s, it went nursery, little school, middle school then Grammar and some stayed for Sixth form but i went to collage...it was just a normal school and not like alot of people used to thing Grammar schools were....for the brainy lol or that they were POSH
We had prefect's in our middle school, everyone was either blue, yellow or red and each TEAM i will call it would get its own Prefect's which was usually the few toffee nose's that were in school, when sports day came we all played for our own team/colours and then the team/colour with the most wins...won
What absolute crap. You are not fooling anyone.
Grammar schools were all but abolished in London by 1977. You must have gone to school in one of the counties that kept them.
Learned absolutely nothing at secondary school in the 70s
Me, an American, seeing the comments about where they go and how they work
Not knowing anything at all:")
We marked our own maths books
Painful viewing, I was totally failed by the education system, thankfully my saviour was the military and the finest.
The finest what?
Tesco finest
@@julytien Must be mate. 🤣
Richard Branson, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were failed by the education too! But they still made it really big!
Likewise.
9:53 no goggles and hair not tied back - breaking the golden rules of using a bunsen burner.
I went to a secondary modern in the 70s it was nothing more than a dumping ground for those that failed the 11 plus. Some teachers were very good and really cared but most 95% had no interest in teaching.
Grammar schools and the selective system should be abolished !!!!
Every child should have the same opportunity!
I went to a Secondary Modern and liked it there... Apart from Maths!! - (plus, I wasn't bullied there as I was in Primary School) - but if I knew then, what I know now, that I have dyscalculia (inability to work with numerals, like trouble with words in dyslexia,) it might have been easier to work with... As it is, I "rebelled" at 14, _refusing_ to do either class _or_ homework for the entire 4th year, making my horrid Maths teacher's life a misery - and definitely vice versa!
I also missed every Housecraft lesson (a whole morning's worth of missed work) during that 4th year...but attended every other class - even P.E!!
I stayed at school into the Lower Sixth, then left and eventually (after a lazy summer) got a job aged between 16.5 - 17. Then I started working with horses, which I always wanted... Teaching horseriding, caring for the horses, being active outdoors come rain, shine, and snow,, not paid much, but loving the work...so much that I worked in three other stables too... Learning, learning, learning all the time about all things equestrian, with different horses and ponies, different people etc.
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Was it ever sunny in the 70s in England?
3:19 Crikey, it’s Captain Darling! I have often wondered what happened to the poor chap after he left General Melchett’s staff at the end of the Great War
He went over the top...
I went to a comprehensive school from 71 to 76. Hated every single minute i was there! Id have been better off staying at home and learning through books! Terrible place!
So much now as then is up to the parents, not the local authority and the children.
Robert Peston's father here at 01:03 (Maurice Peston).
Robert looks so much like his Dad, that when I saw Prof. Peston I couldn't resist checking it out to see if the two were related.
My mum is in this and she has only seen it today :D
Look out for Robert Peston's Dad in this video, he has similar mannerisms.
Pros and cons for both systems.
People talking properly without putting on a stupid ‘ look at me I’m suffering from metal health ‘ street gangsta accent.
Bemoans the Jamaican ganster accent, but has an "anti-facist" - i.e leftist - banner so supports the mass immigration and cultural vandalism that leads to it, along with the destruction of a proper educatipn system.
@@sirhumphreyappleby8399 "... dear lady" mind your spelling :-)
10:10 A lad stood on a rickety stool, pouring chemicals? Health and safety would have a seizure if they saw that now. What was the teacher thinking?
He seems to be getting on with it. There was a time when capable children were given more freedom to do their work.
They had to get rid of grammar schools. The children from grammars schools competed with the privately educated for good jobs. This was unacceptable as the lower classes had to be kept in their place
Yes, you may be on to something there.
Oh look its Maurice Peston on there, Robert Peston's father
How interesting. I assumed this Guy was a typical middle-class Jewish educator but until you mentioned it the penny did not drop. His Father became a Life Peer but to be fair he DID send Robert to the local Comp. which is more than many left-wing ideologists do :)
2:17 That's the point. All these people went to the same school. They all think alike. Is it any wonder the decisions they make are uniformly awful?
More people stayed on to sixth form in comprehensive schools coinciding with a lowering of the goal post and eventual scrapping of O-level standards. Go to Germany, Switzerland or Singapore, to see examples of selective and successful educational institutions for children.
Frank Sidebottom - headmaster
I went to a comprehensive school from 1990-1996 and it was great. We were all sorted into different sets which put the more intelligent kids in the top and worked its way down. It was fine, I enjoyed my time there.
So if I’ve got this right, kids at “secondary modern” schools left school at 16? 😳
Or was there a way to still get into sixth form/further education?
KIds could transfer to a grammar (unusual) or they could go to further education college either in the day time or night school.
@@routeman680 thanks for the info 👍
The percentage of state educated kids getting into Oxbridge has dropped massively since the 1960s. Now kids from the state system are put off the idea of applying because of the higher proportion of privately educated getting in. I'm struck by the decency and honesty of the interviewees - with possible exception of Peston who seems ideologically committed to the comp system.
This is probably even worse than the statistics suggest, as exclusive catchment area price "comprehensives" make up much of the admissions from state schools. Oxbridge is finish anyway, they're living on a reputation that has long outlived the reality it was based in. Thankfully their humanities departments don't seem to realise this position, and are intent on making damned fools of themselves whenever possible!