0:25 > Project Base Point 0:35 > Survey Point 0:45 > Internal Origin 2:34 > Setting Levels Elevation Base 2:58 > Using Spot Elevation 3:37 > Using Spot Coordinates 4:24 > Moving the Coordinate Points (IMPORTANT) 5:05 > How to move Survey Point > Never move it unclipped as it will cause confusion. Survey point is set to an invisible point called "shared site origin" by default. This point is used to create a shared coordinate system 6:05 > Setting True North 6:46 > Exporting to CAD (NOTE: Revit will never use the "Project Base Point" when exporting. You can either export referring to the the "Internal Origin", so 0-0-0, or the "Survey Point", which is used for shared coordinates) 8:11 > Linking CAD files 9:32 > Linking Revit files
Now that's a video every architect using Revit should watch over and over again, like in a clockwork orange, with the eyelids opener and the eye drops ! I'm sick of those people importing a scan, selecting it and moving it around to please their needs, and start modelling... like if the whole universe should move around their project.
You guys are awesome! Clear consistent and concise..! Now if we can get Autodesk to just use the origin to define the orientation and XYZ in the civil coordinate systems we will bet set.
3:13 > How do you get the spot elevation that shows the internal origin value? I can't get my head round it. Do I need to use the type that shows the "relative" height?
So far you are one of the pro. ! Thanks a lot!! Do all your videos in your website are fast like this one? English is my 3rd language. I want to be sure that I can learn from them before i pay.
This is brilliant! Explaining the irrational implementation of the age old coordinate systems by Revit. Conclusion, don't use such a engineer flaw to coordinate between DWG and Revit model. Use an intermediate DWG that acts as interface between real world information and the flawed system. The intermediate DWG should XRef the real world information and translate the coordinate system by placing the "shared coordinates" at drawing origin (0,0,0). Thereby the rotaion of true north can be accommodated by rotating the survey XRef'd drawing on the one hand and on the other, the architectural drawing (obviously in DWG format) can be positioned correctly to interact in a logical way. The intermediate DWG point of origin should be 0,0,0. 1 Thus, the survey XRef level needs to be adjusted by setting the "XRef Properties", rotation, height and position of the DWG to present in the manner you need eventually in Revit (remember to have contours of the surface in this drawing). The XRef properties' "insertion point Z" should be manipulated to indicate the value which needs to be applied to the contours in order to be on the "building reference level". One can order the survey XRef at a position in the intermediate DWG such that the "Z" of the 0,0,0 origin of the intermediate coincides with the lowest contour value. This would be the level at which Revit would place the "link cad file" in height. 2 Same with the architectural building DWG. The XRef should be positioned in the intermediate drawing relative to the XRef'd survey drawing as intended. Most often the parcel boundary would be the reference building layout positionally. In terms of building level, there needs to be an initial method of determining the building level, it can be as simple (on a flattish surface) as placing it on the preferred contour, or as elaborate by determing optimum cut to fill in another terrain type programme. 3 Set up Revit only in terms of a level which would be used for "link cad file", and if as suggested above, this level is the relative height of the lowest contour from the building reference level. (Say the lowest contour value is 1250 and the building level is at 1260, this Revit level should be set at "-10") 4 Link this intermediate drawing with the XRef'd information into a Revit model with both survey and orgin at the same position, thus, in the link window, using the option "auto- origin to internal origin" for positional and for "place at" "a level in the Revit model that represents the reference height" (For the above example, the level set at -10). In this manner, the Revit modeller is not confronted by an irrational positioning method and can use any DWG information that is correctly orientated in the intermediate drawing. And the bonus is, any DGW generated by Revit would also seemlessly XRef to the original DWG information. Hope this helps those that think rationally about space and a building's position in the real world.
Ok, so heres the thing I can't figure out. How do I set my project survey point to be at an actual shared coordinate? If I am trying to bring a handful of point clouds, all tied to their actual position on the earthly coordinate system, the point clouds are imported as some absurd distance away, never to be found. How do we set the internal origin's 0,0,0 to be at an actual coordinate?
Thanks for sharing! I don't understand why the survey point coord values have allways be 0. unless you don't care the geolocation of the project. Should the survey point repesent the geolocation of the project site? It is very unlikly to have a survey point with 0 value from any survey data or after acquire coordinate from civil DWG.
@@bimpure Thank you I was wondering what happened... Another problem I have transferred Project Standards from another project to the current one and I messed up the Reduce Levels... it's picking up the older file RLs... I am stuck? Can I use Relocate Project to move the building to the right position?
How do I create a spot elevation type to pick "internal origin" My options are "Project Base Point / Survey Point / Relative" when I create a new type. I'm using Revit 2022.
Relative would typically refer to the internal origin, but only in 3D views and elevations. Have a look at the "Relative Base" value in the options bar.
You have a good knowledge of how thing work. But, the fear of moving the unclipped Survey Point is unjustified. It's actually part of the recommended workflow for sharing coordinates within a site and using Specify Coordinates at at Point. If you really need to go back to square one at its origin you can just unclip it and type in 0, 0, 0 for the position. If you need it back to startup position just set the PBP back to its startup position and then move the Survey Point there. No reason to be scared to move it unclipped. It actually is considered safer by most professionals to move it unclipped than clipped.
@@yasminmrazif9282 th-cam.com/video/Y6WML5Za13k/w-d-xo.html I think this one, not sure if it'll help you. I barely remember why I wrote this comment jaja cheers!
It actually doesnt work like this and I learned that the hard way today. Project base point does not move in relation to the internal origin and putting it at 0, 0, 0 doesnt move the project at all, it actually moves the survey point.
That's because you didn't unclip the project base point before moving it. Explained at 4:24. Since the Revit 2020.2 release, the clip feature has been removed for the PBP and you are forced to move it in the "unclipped state", which has no effect on the survey point or shared site origin.
@@bimpure moving the project basepoint using the relocate project tool in manage does not move the project relevant to the internal origin point. what I learned in troubleshooting this is that using relocate project ACTUALLY moves the survey point. The only way to move the project in relation to the internal origin point is to physically move the geometry. If you dont believe me try it out, it doesnt work the way we thought it did. draw a wall at a project base point that is 1' away from the internal origin and then try to move it to the internal origin using relocate project. its not possible. took me a few hours to puzzle this out. I demostrate that here: th-cam.com/video/jUzb2_MG8vY/w-d-xo.html
unfortunately this explanation is no longer valid with Revit 2023, or newer. The internal origin point can be turned on or off (in the same way you can with the other site points like project and survey points). There is no longer the option to clip or unclip the project or survey points either.
Sorry to say but the system is just normal andd logical in pratical building terms... 1. your survey point reflects your sites (project site) survey point in real life ( it the one point u use to set out all te rest of your buildingsite) so the survey point puts your model in relation to the world. 2; your project base point, is as it says the base point of the project u put ont he your project site logicaly the project base pointputs your model in relation to you site ( the survey point) 3. and the most logical of all... if u build multiple projects on the same site they share the same survey point.... 4. the base point of your site is alvays in the same polace as its survey point. (since in your site model its base point is the survey point...) 5. the internal is just a reference for revit to work in the first place and shoudl therefore be ignored at all times... I DONT GET THE CONFUSION IN THIS ....
Hard disagree on this! The system is confusing. Most users don't even know the internal origin exists. Importing and exporting files always refer to this point by default. Why would you ignore such an important point? Another reason the system is weird: the Survey Point can be very confusing to use. If you unclip and move it, it doesn't represent the origin of the shared site anymore. The spot coordinates and spot elevation using the Survey Point won't actually use the Survey Point but the Shared Site origin. The blog post I wrote about coordinates is the most popular ever on my website. I feel comfortable saying it is confusing for most users :) Thanks for your message!
@@bimpure hard agree with you Nicholas, a great breakdown of the 'weirdness'! On average I find users struggle to comprehend the system for these reasons amongst others as well. Coordinates are an inherently complex aspect.
Absolutely agree. Sorry to say, but RP does not have the concepts clear and it’s a shame, because before you try to teach something you should understand it!. Other videos are good and they create useful content, but I bit amateur.
@@Diego-ue1dd Thanks for your comment Diego! Do you have any questions regarding the video? I might do another video based on questions users have on this topic. You can have a look at the blog post we wrote on this topic, maybe it clarifies some of the ideas in this video: revitpure.com/blog/13-tips-to-understand-revit-base-points-and-coordinate-system
I must agree that users can struggle with it. Once i talked to them in the practicld terms they get it :). Bit thats wasn’t really the point of my post. In its essence to me the system is ‘pure’ ( ;) ) logic if u look at it in real life coordinates systems we use to build.
Please help . I have followed the instruction as you have said. when I link cad filefrom 0,0,0 it dosent stay at internal origin marked at revit. Please send your email Id. Ill send a snap and explain my query.Please.
0:25 > Project Base Point
0:35 > Survey Point
0:45 > Internal Origin
2:34 > Setting Levels Elevation Base
2:58 > Using Spot Elevation
3:37 > Using Spot Coordinates
4:24 > Moving the Coordinate Points (IMPORTANT)
5:05 > How to move Survey Point > Never move it unclipped as it will cause confusion. Survey point is set to an invisible point called "shared site origin" by default. This point is used to create a shared coordinate system
6:05 > Setting True North
6:46 > Exporting to CAD (NOTE: Revit will never use the "Project Base Point" when exporting. You can either export referring to the the "Internal Origin", so 0-0-0, or the "Survey Point", which is used for shared coordinates)
8:11 > Linking CAD files
9:32 > Linking Revit files
This is so helpful, I understand everything now with the simplest demonstration and quickest way.
Thank you
Brilliant and clear summary, nice work!
They can be weird indeed. As a BIM manager they even do my head in sometimes...
lol as a junior BIM coordinator i concur
I also found this to be a very clear explination of the differnet base and survey points in REVIT. Great work, keep it up and thank you.
Thanks :)
Now that's a video every architect using Revit should watch over and over again, like in a clockwork orange, with the eyelids opener and the eye drops !
I'm sick of those people importing a scan, selecting it and moving it around to please their needs, and start modelling... like if the whole universe should move around their project.
i haven't even finish watching and i learn alot. thanks for this!
You guys are awesome! Clear consistent and concise..!
Now if we can get Autodesk to just use the origin to define the orientation and XYZ in the civil coordinate systems we will bet set.
3:13 > How do you get the spot elevation that shows the internal origin value? I can't get my head round it. Do I need to use the type that shows the "relative" height?
That's right! Relative refers to the internal origin. Sorry for the late reply :)
So far you are one of the pro. !
Thanks a lot!!
Do all your videos in your website are fast like this one?
English is my 3rd language. I want to be sure that I can learn from them before i pay.
Videos are made to be fast paced. One of the reason this channel was started is that I found most videos to be too slow :)
Revit Pure is more systematic is producing clean video, blogs, information in website... 1000 thumbsup and likes...
Thank you for creating this, it was incredibly helpful
Incredible video! is there a way to show both numbers, sea level, and project elevation? in the elevation views?
This is brilliant! Explaining the irrational implementation of the age old coordinate systems by Revit.
Conclusion, don't use such a engineer flaw to coordinate between DWG and Revit model. Use an intermediate DWG that acts as interface between real world information and the flawed system.
The intermediate DWG should XRef the real world information and translate the coordinate system by placing the "shared coordinates" at drawing origin (0,0,0). Thereby the rotaion of true north can be accommodated by rotating the survey XRef'd drawing on the one hand and on the other, the architectural drawing (obviously in DWG format) can be positioned correctly to interact in a logical way. The intermediate DWG point of origin should be 0,0,0.
1 Thus, the survey XRef level needs to be adjusted by setting the "XRef Properties", rotation, height and position of the DWG to present in the manner you need eventually in Revit (remember to have contours of the surface in this drawing). The XRef properties' "insertion point Z" should be manipulated to indicate the value which needs to be applied to the contours in order to be on the "building reference level". One can order the survey XRef at a position in the intermediate DWG such that the "Z" of the 0,0,0 origin of the intermediate coincides with the lowest contour value. This would be the level at which Revit would place the "link cad file" in height.
2 Same with the architectural building DWG. The XRef should be positioned in the intermediate drawing relative to the XRef'd survey drawing as intended. Most often the parcel boundary would be the reference building layout positionally. In terms of building level, there needs to be an initial method of determining the building level, it can be as simple (on a flattish surface) as placing it on the preferred contour, or as elaborate by determing optimum cut to fill in another terrain type programme.
3 Set up Revit only in terms of a level which would be used for "link cad file", and if as suggested above, this level is the relative height of the lowest contour from the building reference level. (Say the lowest contour value is 1250 and the building level is at 1260, this Revit level should be set at "-10")
4 Link this intermediate drawing with the XRef'd information into a Revit model with both survey and orgin at the same position, thus, in the link window, using the option "auto- origin to internal origin" for positional and for "place at" "a level in the Revit model that represents the reference height" (For the above example, the level set at -10).
In this manner, the Revit modeller is not confronted by an irrational positioning method and can use any DWG information that is correctly orientated in the intermediate drawing. And the bonus is, any DGW generated by Revit would also seemlessly XRef to the original DWG information.
Hope this helps those that think rationally about space and a building's position in the real world.
Thankyou very much. Very useful explanetion.
Ok, so heres the thing I can't figure out. How do I set my project survey point to be at an actual shared coordinate? If I am trying to bring a handful of point clouds, all tied to their actual position on the earthly coordinate system, the point clouds are imported as some absurd distance away, never to be found. How do we set the internal origin's 0,0,0 to be at an actual coordinate?
what about to insert points cloud of a site? How to deal with coordinates and elevations?
Thanks for sharing! I don't understand why the survey point coord values have allways be 0. unless you don't care the geolocation of the project. Should the survey point repesent the geolocation of the project site? It is very unlikly to have a survey point with 0 value from any survey data or after acquire coordinate from civil DWG.
Check out this post: revitpure.com/blog/understanding-revits-mysterious-survey-point
How do you see the "clip" in the project base point? Please help
The clip of the PBP has been removed from the most recent version of Revit. This point is now always unclipped.
@@bimpure Thank you I was wondering what happened... Another problem I have transferred Project Standards from another project to the current one and I messed up the Reduce Levels... it's picking up the older file RLs... I am stuck? Can I use Relocate Project to move the building to the right position?
excuse me, what is that font u use in your texts? thanks
brandon grotesque
When exporting share coordinate to CAD as you shown in the video, does it always come out base on the survey point as shared coordinate?
It uses the shared site origin, usually represented by the survey point, unless you unclipped the survey point and moved it.
How do I create a spot elevation type to pick "internal origin" My options are "Project Base Point / Survey Point / Relative" when I create a new type. I'm using Revit 2022.
Relative would typically refer to the internal origin, but only in 3D views and elevations. Have a look at the "Relative Base" value in the options bar.
when i edit the topo surface the points have not changed .. how do i make it so the survey points in edit mode are relating to a point of reference?
Topo surface are always relative to internal origin, that's why it's a good idea to use linked model for site
If you're never suppose to move the survey point without unclipping it, then why is there the option to do so?
You have a good knowledge of how thing work. But, the fear of moving the unclipped Survey Point is unjustified. It's actually part of the recommended workflow for sharing coordinates within a site and using Specify Coordinates at at Point. If you really need to go back to square one at its origin you can just unclip it and type in 0, 0, 0 for the position. If you need it back to startup position just set the PBP back to its startup position and then move the Survey Point there. No reason to be scared to move it unclipped. It actually is considered safer by most professionals to move it unclipped than clipped.
sir i have project Coordinate how i start in revit drawing with i have Coordinate?
I LOST THAT PROJECT ORIGIN SYMBOL WHEN I TYPE IN ELEVATION VALUES, HOW TO GET IT BACK
very good sir
The information regarding the survey point seems to be outdated here.
hi, can you share which video is the latest?
@@yasminmrazif9282 th-cam.com/video/Y6WML5Za13k/w-d-xo.html I think this one, not sure if it'll help you. I barely remember why I wrote this comment jaja cheers!
@@eririvec The video is not in english tho :( but thank you!
@@yasminmrazif9282 yeah and it's a complex topic. Hope you find one soon enough
thanks
It actually doesnt work like this and I learned that the hard way today. Project base point does not move in relation to the internal origin and putting it at 0, 0, 0 doesnt move the project at all, it actually moves the survey point.
That's because you didn't unclip the project base point before moving it. Explained at 4:24. Since the Revit 2020.2 release, the clip feature has been removed for the PBP and you are forced to move it in the "unclipped state", which has no effect on the survey point or shared site origin.
@@bimpure moving the project basepoint using the relocate project tool in manage does not move the project relevant to the internal origin point. what I learned in troubleshooting this is that using relocate project ACTUALLY moves the survey point. The only way to move the project in relation to the internal origin point is to physically move the geometry. If you dont believe me try it out, it doesnt work the way we thought it did. draw a wall at a project base point that is 1' away from the internal origin and then try to move it to the internal origin using relocate project. its not possible. took me a few hours to puzzle this out. I demostrate that here: th-cam.com/video/jUzb2_MG8vY/w-d-xo.html
@@jedsanford5065 yeah all you just said is right, we don't disagree
Finally
unfortunately this explanation is no longer valid with Revit 2023, or newer. The internal origin point can be turned on or off (in the same way you can with the other site points like project and survey points). There is no longer the option to clip or unclip the project or survey points either.
Thank you so much, this has been destroying me
Are you a robot?
Probably not.
Sorry to say but the system is just normal andd logical in pratical building terms...
1. your survey point reflects your sites (project site) survey point in real life ( it the one point u use to set out all te rest of your buildingsite)
so the survey point puts your model in relation to the world.
2; your project base point, is as it says the base point of the project u put ont he your project site
logicaly the project base pointputs your model in relation to you site ( the survey point)
3. and the most logical of all... if u build multiple projects on the same site they share the same survey point....
4. the base point of your site is alvays in the same polace as its survey point. (since in your site model its base point is the survey point...)
5. the internal is just a reference for revit to work in the first place and shoudl therefore be ignored at all times...
I DONT GET THE CONFUSION IN THIS ....
Hard disagree on this! The system is confusing.
Most users don't even know the internal origin exists. Importing and exporting files always refer to this point by default. Why would you ignore such an important point?
Another reason the system is weird: the Survey Point can be very confusing to use. If you unclip and move it, it doesn't represent the origin of the shared site anymore. The spot coordinates and spot elevation using the Survey Point won't actually use the Survey Point but the Shared Site origin.
The blog post I wrote about coordinates is the most popular ever on my website. I feel comfortable saying it is confusing for most users :)
Thanks for your message!
@@bimpure hard agree with you Nicholas, a great breakdown of the 'weirdness'!
On average I find users struggle to comprehend the system for these reasons amongst others as well. Coordinates are an inherently complex aspect.
Absolutely agree. Sorry to say, but RP does not have the concepts clear and it’s a shame, because before you try to teach something you should understand it!. Other videos are good and they create useful content, but I bit amateur.
@@Diego-ue1dd Thanks for your comment Diego! Do you have any questions regarding the video? I might do another video based on questions users have on this topic. You can have a look at the blog post we wrote on this topic, maybe it clarifies some of the ideas in this video: revitpure.com/blog/13-tips-to-understand-revit-base-points-and-coordinate-system
I must agree that users can struggle with it. Once i talked to them in the practicld terms they get it :). Bit thats wasn’t really the point of my post. In its essence to me the system is ‘pure’ ( ;) ) logic if u look at it in real life coordinates systems we use to build.
talks too fast.... have to watch 10 times...
Weird...hahaha, OMG I hate Revit...
Please help . I have followed the instruction as you have said. when I link cad filefrom 0,0,0 it dosent stay at internal origin marked at revit. Please send your email Id. Ill send a snap and explain my query.Please.