At 7:15 the main point "Paul does not contradict the teachings of Jesus - he reinforces them!" Everyone should be able to give a hearty amen to this teaching.
Not sure. There are errors in the teachings of Paul. In one he says it was OK to eat the sacrificed meat. Jesus' teachings are enough. Mennonites may be understanding it correctly, but I am getting black pilled in emphasizing the Bible on the four gospels and the Book of Acts which teaches the doctrines of baptism that Paul neglected (1 Corinthians 1:17). I am not saying he was false, but there were certain things altered for sure. I suggest the video "Why the Bible is not the word of God" by the late finalcall07
Great message! Romans Makes total sense in context. I was once taught that chapters one and two are for those without Christ, and Romans 3 starts the Good News. When reading Romans 2 as a church, I was suddenly scared. Then, the pastor reassured us that this was before we had Christ, but now our works and sins don't count for us or against us.
Hey Chip, I remember arguing with you not long ago about this topic and Matthew Bates/NPP. Funny twist of fate, I have come to agree based on reading Bercot, Norman Shepherd, Greg Bahnsen, Peter Leithart, etc. The missing piece was understanding the nuance of works done through and by Christ. It all fits very well with Bahnsen’s Theonomy, btw.
I am so enjoying this series, it’s truly a blessing to me. Being new in my walk with the Lord, so many things was (and still are I suppose) confusing, but after finding this channel and other Anabatists channels I am staring to get my answers that I have been praying for. Gods blessing to all of you at Sound Faith and beyond.
and to append to what blessed brother David says around the 1:30 minute point, he said, about Chapter 2 and Chapter 3, etc... we must UNDERSCORE the fact, that chapter divisions, i.e the point where we often start our context of what we decided to read and try to understand, these chapter divisions DID NOT exist until this past millennium. In Paul's day, when the church in Rome received this letter, they did not have these ARTIFICIAL divisions and "starting points" to start reading "the context", and therefore did not misunderstand like we do today. Also they read the whole letter in the original language Paul wrote in as well, but most importantly read the whole letter, keeping cognizant what was said in the previous, so-called, chapters (words up to that point). Chapter divisions, in general, are problematic, i.e. they can lead to problems if we "read a chapter per day" forgetting what we read yesterday and the day before, and the day before etc.... i.e. losing context of what Paul had said. Paul, more than any other writer, is quite long winded, and goes off on tangents and branches from the main point, often to give background, remind his listeners or inform them of something new, then returns "chapters later sometimes" to his original point. He does that in Romans, and hence it being a land mine with lots of chances to misunderstand the message without careful attention to all previous points and one continues to read the letter. Spreading the reading out over many many days, is just asking to misunderstand. I guess around the 9 minute point, David briefly mentions about the chapter divisions being added later and the problem that contributes to creating. Also, I so look forward to these installments. Would it not be good to have a Romans immersion marathon?? Good stuff brother David!!!
I don’t know how I only discovered you last night but this is the 2nd video of yours I’ve listened to- thank you so much for your content. I left the witnesses in 2020, everything you say so far resonates with me & makes sense.
David, thank you so much for this sermon. I am not sure if you ever see this message, but I had to comment. The interpretation that you presented it is essentially what the Catholic Church teaches (getting on the vine by God's grace, but then remaining on the vine by obeying God through good works according to which we will be judged). Of course, majority of protestants do not agree with the Catholic doctrine of salvation. I was wondering what your thoughts were on the topic. Another question, if getting on the vine is not-merited and only through God's grace, and also most people would believe newborns and young children are saved, then why wouldn't we want to baptise them to symbolise getting them on the vine, and then through the parent's faith encouraging them to stay on that vine? If baptism is only a symbol, and it is a symbol of God's grace and getting onto the vine (first stage of salvation), then why wouldn't we want to baptise children?
I love your video's David. I have a couple of questions though, when it comes to good works, what can a wife do? As a Christian, I was always taught that our roles are to be in the home raising children, keeping the home, etc. Which I agree with, however is there more that we can do outside the home, or is that enough to Jesus and following him. Raising a family, homeschooling, keeping up with the house, and such, takes a lot of my time and right now I we are not apart of a church. Are there more things that I can do, to do "good works" as Jesus would want me to do?
If you don't mind me chiming in, I think there are so many things you can do without requiring you to overlook your main responsibilities. You can get your yourself and children involved in some kind of compassionate work like sponsoring children overseas and writing letters to them, volunteering at a local food bank, and other opportunities in your community. You can involve the children in having a lemonade stand or bake sale and donating the proceeds. You can commit to hosting guests for meals a few times a month or more, which can really set the stage for good fellowship with believers or blessing those not in the faith and perhaps sharing the path of Jesus with them. If you can get away for a bit, maybe schedule a monthly coffee and prayer time with another sister in Christ or two. There's a lot you can do even while having your main hours devoted to your children and home.
Sister, who is well placed to answer to your question if not The Lord Himself ? Why don't you ask Him in prayers and insist like the widow of the parable ? You know, the parable in Luke 18: 1-7
Hey I am trying to be patient but where's last Sunday's teaching? This is a very exciting and helpful channel to access the sermons weekly and listen while I work and drive etc.. thanx for everything you guys do for us folks and most importantly thanx for your intercessory prayers.
What is the source for the quote mentioned in the video “Here Paul awakens those who had drawn back during trials, and he shows that it is not right to trust in faith alone. For that heavenly Tribunal will also inquire into our works.”?
Could you shoot me a time reference as found below? 00:00 Intro 00:14 Romans 2 The Most Skipped Chapter of Romans 03:30 Theology that makes Paul contradict Jesus is Bad Theology 05:18 You can not properly understand Paul without first understanding Jesus 07:32 Romans 2 Begins 08:04 Romans 2:1-3 10:34 Paul Reinforces Jesus Matthew 7:1-3 11:17 Romans 2:4 12:01 John Chrysostom's view on Romans 2:4 14:00 Romans 2:5 Two Storehouses One for Treasure and one for our wrath. 16:20 Paul Reinforces Jesus Matthew 11:24 16:48 Why Paul Call's it the Day of Revelation 18:00 Luke 17:26-30 Son of Man Returns Will be Like Sodom and Gomorrah 20:04 Secrets of the Heart and Hidden Sin will be revealed 21:05 Romans 5-10 Begins - Phase 2 of Salvation 23:21 Depend on your production of fruit, What fruit does he want to see? 26:24 Matthew 7:21-24 Whoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them 28:28 Romans 2:6 According to his works 29:11 Romans 2:7-9 Eternal life for continuance in good work 32:16 Saved by Grace apart from works is true when we are first saved 33:32 Paul Reminds us we are judged by works 34:15 Recorded afterword to make sure there is not a misunderstanding 35:22 The Historic Faith Quotes of the early Christians begin. 35:33 Origen Belief is not enough, Judged according to our works 36:17 John Chrysostom Not right to trust in faith alone 36:35 Ambrosiaster Eternal Life for those who believe and live Correctly 36:46 Theodoret Judge based on our works 37:36 Clement of Rome seek faith and do His will and obey His truth. 38:41 2nd Clement reward everyone according to his works 38:56 Justin Martyr According to the value of our actions 39:04 Hippolytus Judgment according to our works 39:46 Translators play games with the scriptures 43:18 Romans 2:10 Evil is punished, and Good is rewarded 44:22 Response to the message
The exact quote in the below link is "Here also he awakens those who had drawn back during the trials, and shows that it is not right to trust in faith only. For it is deeds also into which that tribunal will enquire."
The quote is from John Chrysostom and is at 36:22 in the video. I think the quote is from Chrysostom's homilies on Romans. The 5th homily has a very similar quote when John Chrysostom is commenting about Romans 2:7. I tried to comment with a link, but youtube rejected it.
David there is a fascinating theology podcast based out of Dallas TX named "The Remnant Radio" that would absolutely be blessed if you went on there and spoke about the early church fathers. They have other men who study in that area and I have offered your name as a possible great source of early church father doctrine.
There are some troubling things in here, because Paul says everyone is shut up in sin and are not able to be saved through their works because their works are filthy rags. It's Christ's perfect works applied to us that makes us justified. We receive this by faith, a faith by which we are counted as being in Christ (you don't touch on the doctrine of our union with Him) and His good works savingly given to us through union with Him. The whole point of Romans 2-3 is that we could never be saved by the criteria of good works, even in a preservationist sense. I'm not seeing you're making this connection. The progressive nature of Romans' argument is that we are literally hopeless apart from Christ's works. He's arguing that we're guilty if we are standing on our own works. We must obey Christ because He is king, but the threat of His judgment is to drive us to cry out, "Lord, have mercy!" Not to make us think we can withstand His judgment through our feeble obedience.
Your message you gave above is absolutely false. Paul never ever says anything about Filthy rags. Davids message makes the Bible so much more clear and it makes so much more sense.
Thing is David. We are not condemned any linger once saved. This is clear Resurrection o judgement IS. The unsaved This is clear in Romans I think youve missed the point “ those in. Christ are NO LONGER UNDER CONDEMNATION” Hello?
What people say about this passage, (which I don't agree with by the way), is that Paul sets up the judgment and talks of people earning it through righteousness, but then proceeds in Romans 3 to say that no one is actually righteous so this is just hypothetical and no one in the end receives eternal life this way. I think it's logical and somewhat flows with the thought of Paul. But I think later in Romans Paul brings works and obedience back into the scheme of salvation. Ephesians 2 is also interesting because it actually speaks of both things. The context in that passage is salvation from wrath and sin resulting in a life of righteousness. It's not talking so much about eternal life. If you take verses 1 through 10 as a single concept of salvation, then salvation includes the good works spoken of in verse 10. Another way to put it, you didn't earn the grace of God to walk pleasingly in His favor in the good works He prepared for you as the salvation from your former deeds.
There has to be some kind of misunderstanding because if works are required for salvation then Romans 3,4, and 5 are false doctrine along with Ephesians--not by works so that no one can boast.
That’s based on a confusion. Initial salvation is without works but final salvation works play in because they are works of faith/obedience and without them you believed in vain. The main confusion is that you have to choose between faith or works and that they are diametrically opposed. This false dichotomy was introduced by the Reformers because they were monergists. Monergism has no scriptural basis and was introduced by Augustine and picked up by the Reformers. Once you understand that it all falls into place. If you say faith alone in a strict sense you are tossing a lot of Scripture aside to do that...it’s not actually sola scriptura. That’s the scandal of it all. Sola fide was code for Monergism and the Protestants bought into it and we’ve been bamboozled. Time to go back to the teachings of Christ and recover true Christianity.
Yes, you are correct that no one can boast since salvation is by grace through faith/faithfulness. Living by faith, and loving God means imitating Jesus by doing the will of God, turning from the works of the flesh and being transformed day by day to show the fruit of the spirit. It is the power of God combined with a willing and obedient servant of God/Christian.
You must realize Paul was a Pharisee, trained his entire life in the works-based laws of the Pharisees for righteousness. After Paul’s conversion he denounced those laws and uphold the laws that require faith instead - God’s commandments! “ Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. *Keeping God’s commands is what counts.* “ It’s common today to twist Paul’s repudiation of the laws of the Pharisees into repudiation of *all* laws including God’s commandments, leading to the OSAS (once-saved, always saved) and “saved by Grace alone” doctrines. But Christ says we must forgive others to be forgiven ... that if we do not forgive others, our own sins will not be forgiven. So much for osas and “saved by grace alone”! By faith we are saved from our past sins, but only those who practice righteousness, beginning with repentance, are counted as children of God.
Respectfully we all need to be able explain salvation clearly in about 5-10mins. It seems like this would just be so much better if you just topically stayed w/ the subject at hand, had the the teaching direct and too the point as possible, and if you explained things in a justification vs sanctification context. That would correlate directly to the calvinist/lurtheran vs the arminian models and have others better understand what you're saying. So you essentially saying we're justified by faith but we are sanctified in part by faith and in part by works.. would that be correct? 24:45 Emphasizes Jn 5:28-29 30:01 Breaks down eph2:8,9 41:00 Breaks down "ergon" in a very important way! 42:38 "1phase vs 2phase of salvation" which would be better to just use the more biblical/theolpgocal terms of justification/sanctification.
Good point, Justin. Maybe in time we can start posting some shorter videos for questions like that. Right now, we're mostly posting sermons. For your question, I believe that David would say that we are justified when we respond to God in faith and obedience. See for example James 2:20-26. James tells us that Abraham and Rahab were justified by their works. The two phases of salvation that David is teaching are these: 1) Being cleansed so that we can become a Christian and 2) Staying faithful and living obediently. So they don't exactly correspond to justification and sanctification. Phase 1 would be one form of justification, in which God forgives us and accepts us as children, and Phase 2 would be another form, in which we demonstrate by our lives that we are his children and thus continue to be accepted. During Phase 2, sanctification would also be happening. Does that make sense to you, Justin? -Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel I think your definition of phase 2 could still be described as sanctification maybe idk. The challenge w/ any of these terms, like justification & sanctification, is that you need a catalog of verses to just make sure that you're defining the terms biblically. I just really want to have a sound cohesive doctrine to respond to the calvinist view on & I believe the anabaptists really have a majority of the sound doctrine put in practice but I feel like it's not concise enough in general; myself included of course. Bercots view would be similar to wesley but even wesley didn't define really clearly the terms of sanctification and our role play i.e. 2Cor7:1,Ph2:12,13. •I think even wesley as dogmatically apposed he was to calvinism/Lutheranism still seemed to succumbed to the pressure of having to describe salvation in the eph2:8,9 paradigm "by grace thru faith and not of works" and I'm struggling to come up as concise and all encompassing biblical response to that misconception in my view. God bless you guys!
@Justin Chamberlain I just ran across this comment again. You might want to check out an article I wrote lately. I hope it helps: anabaptistfaith.org/salvation-includes-faith-and-works/
Ok, well now i know there r two phases in salvation. Something new. Never heard this before. Our churches better adjust what they r teaching. I always believed that my works were a product of my free salvation through faith in Christ ( God incarnated). James 2:24 says man is Justified by works and not faith alone. It doesn't say saved. I will have to look up that Greek word.
Where is assurance in biblical salvation teaching????? Because they’re so many teachings on Salvation, and I feel like I’m at a casino thriving to win Salvation and if go with the wrong misunderstood teacher, than I’m off to torment. Salvation should be easy to comprehend and taught yet so many teachers make so difficult that even highly educated individual couldn’t understand it:( Please pray that we find true lessons on salvation and what one should do to attain it. tTt
oh really? The context says in Chapter 2 he is talking to his listeners. His listeners are identified in Chapter 1 first few verses to be the whole assembly of christians in Rome. Let's revisit that below: Romans 1: 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name (sake), 6 AMONG WHOM YOU (plural pronoun) ARE ALL CALLED of Jesus Christ; 7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be HOLY ONES: verses 18-32 of CH 1 --> describes how the judgment that Jesus spoke of in John 5:28-29, Matt 25:31-46 is coming upon the whole world because of their wicked deeds. CH 2 vs 1 begins where that left off, ... notice Paul DOES NOT SAY ... THEY... no, he says YOU (plural which English does not have unless you use Y'ALL... as in YOU ROMAN CHRISTIANS. Self deception will be the source of much weeping of gnashing of teeth... it was RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE, but because we cannot accept the TRUTH, SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY AND VARIANTS COME TO THE RESCUE so we can live a comfy life now, foregoing the next life of eternal value... hence, the weeping and gnashing). Letter to Romans Christians, Chapter 2 1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. (JESUS WARNS HIS HEARERS (and us) "THE MEASURE OF JUDGMENT WE GIVE TO OTHERS WILL BE BOOMERANGED BACK ON US ON JUDGMENT DAY) 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. -->3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? (** YES, YOU OH CHRISTIAN IN ROME, DO YOU THINK YOU WILL ESCAPE THE FAIR, RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD) 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. PAUL in ACTS 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has established. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (JESUS will judge just like he described in Matthew 25:31-46 and matches Romans 2:6-10) John 5 JESUS SPEAKS about JUDGMENT DAY CONDUCTED BY HIMSELF 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (MATCHES EXACTLY ROMANS 2:6-10 and MATTHEW 25:31-46)
2 Corinthians 5 Paul tells the Corinthians Christians 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good deeds or evil deeds. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we try to persuade men
Paul tells the christians in Corinth, in 1 Corinthians, chapter 5 to put the sinning man out of the church... then now in Chapter 6, we read: ****> 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Not sure about the 2 phases of salvation as presented here - nor biblicaly, neither from those early christians citations. Faith and works are like the two facets of the same coin. Faith without works is dead. If we say that we have faith, but godly works don't follow then we actually don't have faith and we just lie to God (and ourselves). We are not saved in the first place. In the same way if we don't remain in faith - it will be reflected in our works, respectively lack of godly works. This can eventually lead to losing our salvation, if we ultimately refuse to put our faith in God. But this is actually my understanding for faith alone and grace alone. Redemptive faith includes repentance and good works.
Total heresy. The kingdom of God is at hand. When we are righteous, we gain spiritual gifts, which are our vestments. The kingdom of God is something we attain while we live, and it is a place we go when we die. You read all the quotes as if they were only about the 2nd definition.
@Kill Metatron We also believe that the kingdom of God is something that is present here as well as present in the future when Jesus returns. I'm not seeing what point we differ on. -Lynn
I have no reason to believe a word that the self proclaimed apostle paul said. Paul is the reason billions think that they are not under the law! he totally taught the opposite of Yeshua.
At 7:15 the main point "Paul does not contradict the teachings of Jesus - he reinforces them!" Everyone should be able to give a hearty amen to this teaching.
dude. stop lying. I totally reject Paul. he is why billions of christians are lawless and going to hell
Watch Mike Desario teaching on U - Tube, a great Bible teacher
Not sure. There are errors in the teachings of Paul. In one he says it was OK to eat the sacrificed meat. Jesus' teachings are enough. Mennonites may be understanding it correctly, but I am getting black pilled in emphasizing the Bible on the four gospels and the Book of Acts which teaches the doctrines of baptism that Paul neglected (1 Corinthians 1:17). I am not saying he was false, but there were certain things altered for sure. I suggest the video "Why the Bible is not the word of God" by the late finalcall07
@@narcissistinjurygiver2932 Good luck with the way of thinking. You deny a God who preserves his word (Jeremiah 32:27). Repent.
@@dh1335 A great teacher to lead many false believers to hell
Great message! Romans Makes total sense in context. I was once taught that chapters one and two are for those without Christ, and Romans 3 starts the Good News. When reading Romans 2 as a church, I was suddenly scared. Then, the pastor reassured us that this was before we had Christ, but now our works and sins don't count for us or against us.
It’s been a really rewarding series so far - looking forward to the next installment!
Hey Chip, I remember arguing with you not long ago about this topic and Matthew Bates/NPP. Funny twist of fate, I have come to agree based on reading Bercot, Norman Shepherd, Greg Bahnsen, Peter Leithart, etc.
The missing piece was understanding the nuance of works done through and by Christ. It all fits very well with Bahnsen’s Theonomy, btw.
Hit the thumbs up and leave a comment. It will get this message out to many more people. Thanks
I am so enjoying this series, it’s truly a blessing to me. Being new in my walk with the Lord, so many things was (and still are I suppose) confusing, but after finding this channel and other Anabatists channels I am staring to get my answers that I have been praying for. Gods blessing to all of you at Sound Faith and beyond.
Very challenging and uplifting. Definitely the best in the series yet! Thanks David!
Bring it on home David. Bring it on home.
and to append to what blessed brother David says around the 1:30 minute point, he said, about Chapter 2 and Chapter 3, etc... we must UNDERSCORE the fact, that chapter divisions, i.e the point where we often start our context of what we decided to read and try to understand, these chapter divisions DID NOT exist until this past millennium. In Paul's day, when the church in Rome received this letter, they did not have these ARTIFICIAL divisions and "starting points" to start reading "the context", and therefore did not misunderstand like we do today. Also they read the whole letter in the original language Paul wrote in as well, but most importantly read the whole letter, keeping cognizant what was said in the previous, so-called, chapters (words up to that point).
Chapter divisions, in general, are problematic, i.e. they can lead to problems if we "read a chapter per day" forgetting what we read yesterday and the day before, and the day before etc.... i.e. losing context of what Paul had said. Paul, more than any other writer, is quite long winded, and goes off on tangents and branches from the main point, often to give background, remind his listeners or inform them of something new, then returns "chapters later sometimes" to his original point. He does that in Romans, and hence it being a land mine with lots of chances to misunderstand the message without careful attention to all previous points and one continues to read the letter. Spreading the reading out over many many days, is just asking to misunderstand.
I guess around the 9 minute point, David briefly mentions about the chapter divisions being added later and the problem that contributes to creating.
Also, I so look forward to these installments. Would it not be good to have a Romans immersion marathon??
Good stuff brother David!!!
Great teaching! Blessings from New Zealand
I don’t know how I only discovered you last night but this is the 2nd video of yours I’ve listened to- thank you so much for your content. I left the witnesses in 2020, everything you say so far resonates with me & makes sense.
David, thank you so much for this sermon. I am not sure if you ever see this message, but I had to comment. The interpretation that you presented it is essentially what the Catholic Church teaches (getting on the vine by God's grace, but then remaining on the vine by obeying God through good works according to which we will be judged). Of course, majority of protestants do not agree with the Catholic doctrine of salvation. I was wondering what your thoughts were on the topic. Another question, if getting on the vine is not-merited and only through God's grace, and also most people would believe newborns and young children are saved, then why wouldn't we want to baptise them to symbolise getting them on the vine, and then through the parent's faith encouraging them to stay on that vine? If baptism is only a symbol, and it is a symbol of God's grace and getting onto the vine (first stage of salvation), then why wouldn't we want to baptise children?
Thank you sooooooo much for what you do. It is SO needed.
This sermon turns the the thousands of self-care churches to ashes. 💯
Thank you for this solid teaching!
I have so many trouble of my modern theology because of this.
I love your video's David. I have a couple of questions though, when it comes to good works, what can a wife do? As a Christian, I was always taught that our roles are to be in the home raising children, keeping the home, etc. Which I agree with, however is there more that we can do outside the home, or is that enough to Jesus and following him. Raising a family, homeschooling, keeping up with the house, and such, takes a lot of my time and right now I we are not apart of a church. Are there more things that I can do, to do "good works" as Jesus would want me to do?
Raising children to love the Lord Jesus is a tremendous good work and a calling for all mothers.
If you don't mind me chiming in, I think there are so many things you can do without requiring you to overlook your main responsibilities. You can get your yourself and children involved in some kind of compassionate work like sponsoring children overseas and writing letters to them, volunteering at a local food bank, and other opportunities in your community. You can involve the children in having a lemonade stand or bake sale and donating the proceeds. You can commit to hosting guests for meals a few times a month or more, which can really set the stage for good fellowship with believers or blessing those not in the faith and perhaps sharing the path of Jesus with them. If you can get away for a bit, maybe schedule a monthly coffee and prayer time with another sister in Christ or two. There's a lot you can do even while having your main hours devoted to your children and home.
Sister, who is well placed to answer to your question if not The Lord Himself ? Why don't you ask Him in prayers and insist like the widow of the parable ? You know, the parable in Luke 18: 1-7
Hey I am trying to be patient but where's last Sunday's teaching? This is a very exciting and helpful channel to access the sermons weekly and listen while I work and drive etc.. thanx for everything you guys do for us folks and most importantly thanx for your intercessory prayers.
Sorry brother. I have them filmed but have been away filming a Confrence for All nations Bible translators. I will try to have one up this week.
What is the source for the quote mentioned in the video “Here Paul awakens those who had drawn back during trials, and he shows that it is not right to trust in faith alone. For that heavenly Tribunal will also inquire into our works.”?
Could you shoot me a time reference as found below?
00:00 Intro
00:14 Romans 2 The Most Skipped Chapter of Romans
03:30 Theology that makes Paul contradict Jesus is Bad Theology
05:18 You can not properly understand Paul without first understanding Jesus
07:32 Romans 2 Begins
08:04 Romans 2:1-3
10:34 Paul Reinforces Jesus Matthew 7:1-3
11:17 Romans 2:4
12:01 John Chrysostom's view on Romans 2:4
14:00 Romans 2:5 Two Storehouses One for Treasure and one for our wrath.
16:20 Paul Reinforces Jesus Matthew 11:24
16:48 Why Paul Call's it the Day of Revelation
18:00 Luke 17:26-30 Son of Man Returns Will be Like Sodom and Gomorrah
20:04 Secrets of the Heart and Hidden Sin will be revealed
21:05 Romans 5-10 Begins - Phase 2 of Salvation
23:21 Depend on your production of fruit, What fruit does he want to see?
26:24 Matthew 7:21-24 Whoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them
28:28 Romans 2:6 According to his works
29:11 Romans 2:7-9 Eternal life for continuance in good work
32:16 Saved by Grace apart from works is true when we are first saved
33:32 Paul Reminds us we are judged by works
34:15 Recorded afterword to make sure there is not a misunderstanding
35:22 The Historic Faith Quotes of the early Christians begin.
35:33 Origen Belief is not enough, Judged according to our works
36:17 John Chrysostom Not right to trust in faith alone
36:35 Ambrosiaster Eternal Life for those who believe and live Correctly
36:46 Theodoret Judge based on our works
37:36 Clement of Rome seek faith and do His will and obey His truth.
38:41 2nd Clement reward everyone according to his works
38:56 Justin Martyr According to the value of our actions
39:04 Hippolytus Judgment according to our works
39:46 Translators play games with the scriptures
43:18 Romans 2:10 Evil is punished, and Good is rewarded
44:22 Response to the message
I mean you type the time stamp of the particular quote then I can go see what you are referring to.
The exact quote in the below link is "Here also he awakens those who had drawn back during the trials,
and shows that it is not right to trust in faith only. For it is deeds also into which that tribunal will enquire."
The quote is from John Chrysostom and is at 36:22 in the video. I think the quote is from Chrysostom's homilies on Romans. The 5th homily has a very similar quote when John Chrysostom is commenting about Romans 2:7. I tried to comment with a link, but youtube rejected it.
Maybe youtube will allow a link to the quote: www.newadvent.org/fathers/210205.htm
David there is a fascinating theology podcast based out of Dallas TX named "The Remnant Radio" that would absolutely be blessed if you went on there and spoke about the early church fathers.
They have other men who study in that area and I have offered your name as a possible great source of early church father doctrine.
There are some troubling things in here, because Paul says everyone is shut up in sin and are not able to be saved through their works because their works are filthy rags. It's Christ's perfect works applied to us that makes us justified. We receive this by faith, a faith by which we are counted as being in Christ (you don't touch on the doctrine of our union with Him) and His good works savingly given to us through union with Him. The whole point of Romans 2-3 is that we could never be saved by the criteria of good works, even in a preservationist sense. I'm not seeing you're making this connection. The progressive nature of Romans' argument is that we are literally hopeless apart from Christ's works. He's arguing that we're guilty if we are standing on our own works. We must obey Christ because He is king, but the threat of His judgment is to drive us to cry out, "Lord, have mercy!" Not to make us think we can withstand His judgment through our feeble obedience.
Your message you gave above is absolutely false. Paul never ever says anything about Filthy rags. Davids message makes the Bible so much more clear and it makes so much more sense.
The cross is made of none effect by those who add or take away from the cross.
Thing is David. We are not condemned any linger once saved.
This is clear
Resurrection o judgement IS. The unsaved
This is clear in Romans
I think youve missed the point
“ those in. Christ are NO LONGER UNDER CONDEMNATION”
Hello?
Don’t return to the Roman stuff
What people say about this passage, (which I don't agree with by the way), is that Paul sets up the judgment and talks of people earning it through righteousness, but then proceeds in Romans 3 to say that no one is actually righteous so this is just hypothetical and no one in the end receives eternal life this way. I think it's logical and somewhat flows with the thought of Paul. But I think later in Romans Paul brings works and obedience back into the scheme of salvation.
Ephesians 2 is also interesting because it actually speaks of both things. The context in that passage is salvation from wrath and sin resulting in a life of righteousness. It's not talking so much about eternal life. If you take verses 1 through 10 as a single concept of salvation, then salvation includes the good works spoken of in verse 10. Another way to put it, you didn't earn the grace of God to walk pleasingly in His favor in the good works He prepared for you as the salvation from your former deeds.
Matthew 25:31--- Jesus said the fruit on judgment day that our salvation is dependent on.
Feels very JW
There has to be some kind of misunderstanding because if works are required for salvation then Romans 3,4, and 5 are false doctrine along with Ephesians--not by works so that no one can boast.
That’s based on a confusion. Initial salvation is without works but final salvation works play in because they are works of faith/obedience and without them you believed in vain. The main confusion is that you have to choose between faith or works and that they are diametrically opposed. This false dichotomy was introduced by the Reformers because they were monergists. Monergism has no scriptural basis and was introduced by Augustine and picked up by the Reformers. Once you understand that it all falls into place. If you say faith alone in a strict sense you are tossing a lot of Scripture aside to do that...it’s not actually sola scriptura. That’s the scandal of it all. Sola fide was code for Monergism and the Protestants bought into it and we’ve been bamboozled. Time to go back to the teachings of Christ and recover true Christianity.
Grace is required all throughout our working toward final salvation. Our choice to do good works is evidence of this grace.
Yes, you are correct that no one can boast since salvation is by grace through faith/faithfulness. Living by faith, and loving God means imitating Jesus by doing the will of God, turning from the works of the flesh and being transformed day by day to show the fruit of the spirit. It is the power of God combined with a willing and obedient servant of God/Christian.
You must realize Paul was a Pharisee, trained his entire life in the works-based laws of the Pharisees for righteousness. After Paul’s conversion he denounced those laws and uphold the laws that require faith instead - God’s commandments!
“ Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. *Keeping God’s commands is what counts.* “
It’s common today to twist Paul’s repudiation of the laws of the Pharisees into repudiation of *all* laws including God’s commandments, leading to the OSAS (once-saved, always saved) and “saved by Grace alone” doctrines.
But Christ says we must forgive others to be forgiven ... that if we do not forgive others, our own sins will not be forgiven. So much for osas and “saved by grace alone”!
By faith we are saved from our past sins, but only those who practice righteousness, beginning with repentance, are counted as children of God.
look up false apostle paul
Respectfully we all need to be able explain salvation clearly in about 5-10mins. It seems like this would just be so much better if you just topically stayed w/ the subject at hand, had the the teaching direct and too the point as possible, and if you explained things in a justification vs sanctification context. That would correlate directly to the calvinist/lurtheran vs the arminian models and have others better understand what you're saying. So you essentially saying we're justified by faith but we are sanctified in part by faith and in part by works.. would that be correct?
24:45 Emphasizes Jn 5:28-29
30:01 Breaks down eph2:8,9
41:00 Breaks down "ergon" in a very important way!
42:38 "1phase vs 2phase of salvation" which would be better to just use the more biblical/theolpgocal terms of justification/sanctification.
Good point, Justin. Maybe in time we can start posting some shorter videos for questions like that. Right now, we're mostly posting sermons.
For your question, I believe that David would say that we are justified when we respond to God in faith and obedience. See for example James 2:20-26. James tells us that Abraham and Rahab were justified by their works.
The two phases of salvation that David is teaching are these: 1) Being cleansed so that we can become a Christian and 2) Staying faithful and living obediently. So they don't exactly correspond to justification and sanctification. Phase 1 would be one form of justification, in which God forgives us and accepts us as children, and Phase 2 would be another form, in which we demonstrate by our lives that we are his children and thus continue to be accepted. During Phase 2, sanctification would also be happening.
Does that make sense to you, Justin?
-Lynn
@@SoundFaithChannel I think your definition of phase 2 could still be described as sanctification maybe idk. The challenge w/ any of these terms, like justification & sanctification, is that you need a catalog of verses to just make sure that you're defining the terms biblically. I just really want to have a sound cohesive doctrine to respond to the calvinist view on & I believe the anabaptists really have a majority of the sound doctrine put in practice but I feel like it's not concise enough in general; myself included of course. Bercots view would be similar to wesley but even wesley didn't define really clearly the terms of sanctification and our role play i.e. 2Cor7:1,Ph2:12,13.
•I think even wesley as dogmatically apposed he was to calvinism/Lutheranism still seemed to succumbed to the pressure of having to describe salvation in the eph2:8,9 paradigm "by grace thru faith and not of works" and I'm struggling to come up as concise and all encompassing biblical response to that misconception in my view. God bless you guys!
@@SoundFaithChannel Same
@Justin Chamberlain I just ran across this comment again. You might want to check out an article I wrote lately. I hope it helps: anabaptistfaith.org/salvation-includes-faith-and-works/
Watch Mike Desario teaching on U- Tube, another great Bible teacher
Watch Robert Breaker teaching on rightly divide and dispensationalism please then let’s have a discussion please
Maybe the cross in the urine was supposed to represent the state of the church. Or Christianity according to the way it has become.
Ok, well now i know there r two phases in salvation. Something new. Never heard this before. Our churches better adjust what they r teaching. I always believed that my works were a product of my free salvation through faith in Christ ( God incarnated).
James 2:24 says man is Justified by works and not faith alone. It doesn't say saved. I will have to look up that Greek word.
Where is assurance in biblical salvation teaching????? Because they’re so many teachings on Salvation, and I feel like I’m at a casino thriving to win Salvation and if go with the wrong misunderstood teacher, than I’m off to torment. Salvation should be easy to comprehend and taught yet so many teachers make so difficult that even highly educated individual couldn’t understand it:(
Please pray that we find true lessons on salvation and what one should do to attain it. tTt
Yup.
I heard Paul is not talking about how Christians are judged in these verses, How Christains are judged is laid out in Corithians
oh really? The context says in Chapter 2 he is talking to his listeners. His listeners are identified in Chapter 1 first few verses to be the whole assembly of christians in Rome. Let's revisit that below:
Romans 1: 5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name (sake), 6 AMONG WHOM YOU (plural pronoun) ARE ALL CALLED of Jesus Christ; 7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be HOLY ONES:
verses 18-32 of CH 1 --> describes how the judgment that Jesus spoke of in John 5:28-29, Matt 25:31-46 is coming upon the whole world because of their wicked deeds.
CH 2 vs 1 begins where that left off, ... notice Paul DOES NOT SAY ... THEY... no, he says YOU (plural which English does not have unless you use Y'ALL... as in YOU ROMAN CHRISTIANS. Self deception will be the source of much weeping of gnashing of teeth... it was RIGHT THERE IN THE BIBLE, but because we cannot accept the TRUTH, SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY AND VARIANTS COME TO THE RESCUE so we can live a comfy life now, foregoing the next life of eternal value... hence, the weeping and gnashing).
Letter to Romans Christians, Chapter 2
1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. (JESUS WARNS HIS HEARERS (and us) "THE MEASURE OF JUDGMENT WE GIVE TO OTHERS WILL BE BOOMERANGED BACK ON US ON JUDGMENT DAY)
2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
-->3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? (** YES, YOU OH CHRISTIAN IN ROME, DO YOU THINK YOU WILL ESCAPE THE FAIR, RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD)
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
PAUL in ACTS 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has established. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (JESUS will judge just like he described in Matthew 25:31-46 and matches Romans 2:6-10)
John 5 JESUS SPEAKS about JUDGMENT DAY CONDUCTED BY HIMSELF
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. (MATCHES EXACTLY ROMANS 2:6-10 and MATTHEW 25:31-46)
2 Corinthians 5 Paul tells the Corinthians Christians
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good deeds or evil deeds. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we try to persuade men
Paul tells the christians in Corinth, in 1 Corinthians, chapter 5 to put the sinning man out of the church... then now in Chapter 6, we read:
****> 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Not sure about the 2 phases of salvation as presented here - nor biblicaly, neither from those early christians citations.
Faith and works are like the two facets of the same coin. Faith without works is dead. If we say that we have faith, but godly works don't follow then we actually don't have faith and we just lie to God (and ourselves). We are not saved in the first place.
In the same way if we don't remain in faith - it will be reflected in our works, respectively lack of godly works. This can eventually lead to losing our salvation, if we ultimately refuse to put our faith in God.
But this is actually my understanding for faith alone and grace alone. Redemptive faith includes repentance and good works.
You need to update yourself with the "New Perspective on Paul" from Theologians like James Dunn..
Total heresy. The kingdom of God is at hand. When we are righteous, we gain spiritual gifts, which are our vestments. The kingdom of God is something we attain while we live, and it is a place we go when we die. You read all the quotes as if they were only about the 2nd definition.
@Kill Metatron We also believe that the kingdom of God is something that is present here as well as present in the future when Jesus returns. I'm not seeing what point we differ on. -Lynn
Sureproof way to know someone does NOT undersstand the salvation message of the Bible.and he's on part 6? all lies then
I would like to hear your perspective on the subject.
Sounds like you read the title and made a reactive reply.
Since you don't know the CORRECT teaching of the bible, but instead have been taught by men you say such.
Ya. Let's hear you surmise the salvation message? Ask jesus in your heart then your good?
I guess Jesus was a liar then because he told us to not believe anyone making the very claims of seeing him like Paul did.
Incorrect dispensation!
I have no reason to believe a word that the self proclaimed apostle paul said. Paul is the reason billions think that they are not under the law! he totally taught the opposite of Yeshua.
Works verses the Blood 🩸 tTt