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Europe vs. USA: Off-Piste Terrain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มี.ค. 2024
- You can't just go off the trails at Europe's ski resorts 😳
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if the “off-piste” areas are managed and marked and whatnot then that’s clearly just a piste
there are some resorts that "off piste" slopes. meaning that they are safe and marked, but the snow is left untouched.
By managed, they mean that you aren't going to get cliffed out and they'll set off explosions on it if they think it's an avalanche risk. This assurance means that it will be a high traffic slope and the terrain will be greatly influenced by the skier pathing (huge moguls will form).
aren't many places in the alps considered nature preserves and therefore protected???
Lol tell that the ppl from verbier
Lots of piste off people here
Here a European speaking: generally you got three types of runs:
groomed slopes
backcountry/off piste (no security)
ski-routes (ungroomed but avalanche controlled)
Basically the exact same here. The only difference is to get to backcountry you have to enter through an access gate (maybe that’s also the case in Europe idk tho).
@@jpsatriano some places may have a popular drop point with a trail to it but no gate. Mainly just go over the edge of the pist
@@jpsatrianohere you can just send it off the run and you’ll be off piste fairly quickly
@jpsatriano the places I've been here in Norway it's typically only the slopes marked on the map that's prepared. Anywhere else you are free to go at your own risk. The only times I've seen any sort of barrier is when they have to close a slope, in which case they usually put up some stakes combined with a piece of redish twine or tape and a piece of paper saying it's closed and any skiing is done at your own risk.
@@Octanitrocubane-enjoyersounds way more fun ngl
You should've explained how it is in the US. Doesn't work as a comparison video or 'vs' when you leave half of it out.
We call it "Nature" in Europe
I'ma be real there's no wilderness left in Europe
@@combatarcher3101 yeah no true wilderness but it's still got some places you can go where you won't find a person or evidence of
@combatarcher3101 well, you're wrong
@@combatarcher3101Northern Norway?
@@combatarcher3101when you say europe, which european countries are you refering to?
So american ”off-piste” is not really off-piste?
Erm... Welll nope... Maybe do your research properly! Austrian patrol here. We do avalanche control everywhere people can ski (mostly). It depends on the ski resort and how their slopes are set up..
Sure, we don't secure the entire mountain. Unless it is really hazardous.
But the videos you have shown of backcountry ride. Erm yeah.... You didn't mention ski routes. There are backcountry routes having poles. And those are also secure, plus most surrounding areas.
We can't secure every couloir and whatever. But especially more visited places we do.
Cause obviously we don't want people to die on our mountain. So it would be negligent not to....
Why are Australians such kunts
I swear no one does research anymore. Plus, how do you expect to mitigate the danger of avalanches from higher up the mountain sweeping over the trail without dealing with those areas too.
I'm confused if it's outside the ski place it obviously won't be taken care of no?
I’ve been twice, but my dad always skis in the alps and he says it’s crazy how different it is. You can be skiing on a nice open powder spot and next thing you now be on top of an 80 foot cliff. If you know what you’re doing and where you are, it’s truly unlike anything else back here.
Not entirely true, many resorts (at least in CH and AT) will do avalanche control for surrounding areas as well. Furthermore, some will have "freeride markers" which indicate that an area isn't being actively maintained but is (free)rideable as well as help guide you in the general direction of a lift or a station. Would be interested to know what NA is like...
A lot of european sking regions specificly ask you not to go of track to not annoy the animals
Never seen that
@@Yerdadada Maybe look better?
@@fire7787 where have you seen this?
@@Yerdadada Switzerland Arosa
@@fire7787 so I've never seen this at any resort in Austria Germany or Italy.
That isn't correct most European resorts do manage avalanche risk and don't open upper lifts if theres high off piste avalanche risk. Also theres generally levels of off pisteyness. Most resorts have orange 'free ride' areas or symbols marked somwhere on the map as an off piste area close to the piste that is avalanche controlled (especially with tree skiing). Its great thetes no restrictions on going off the back of the hill into completely unmanaged terrain but i think its also due to a much more safety ski at your own risk vibe with also more state level rescue teams and free national healthcare service
Yeah, exactly, there's offpiste and then there's offpiste. Technically, cutting a serpentine corner through non-piste terrain on the way down is "offpiste" too, but clearly it isn't the same kind of risk as being airlifted on to an untouched slope via helicopter, just to name the most extreme ends of the spectrum.
Any offpiste zone which represents an avalanche risk for skiers on piste would be secured. These offpiste zones are the most used by skiers as it allows you more difficult rundown while still being able to back on post pretty easily in lost cases.
Sometimes, offpiste zones which are known to be used a lot will be secured, there aren't a lot.
Generally speaking, if you go to the Alpes, especially in areas like Les 3 Vallées or Les 2 Alpes (both in France), the network of pistes is so wide that pretty much all the mountain is avalanche proof as there would always be a piste which would need to be secured.
So even though off-piste isn't really avalanche proofed, most of the off-piste zones in big resorts are avalanche proof.
I would also say it’s pretty common to have guide runs that are just completely un bashed. So it’s essentially marked off piste. Pretty common blacks and some reds in Europe.
Why is this weird? Of piste means it is not a piste? So of course its not managed and marked? How does this work in the us then? Is the whole mountain just a piste XD
Its pretty much the same, I dont understand this video. If you ski backcountry there is obviously no markings, avalanche control, etc.
How is it a comparison video if you only show one side, as if the other was obvious? (r/USDefaultism lol)
Did you have the audio turned off?
@@joost00555 No, the only time he mentions the US is when he says "This makes for much more dangerous conditions than one might expect while skiing off-trail in the US"
@@wojwesolyfirst off all this video is clearly made in English for an American audience, second, the fact that its a comparison video and one side is mentioned makes it easy for any halfway intelligent human to understand, that the side which is not mentioned has the opposite conditions of the mentioned side.
@@billysmudda4009This is clearly not a situation where you'd just have the exact opposite on the other side...
@@billysmudda4009 English is not necessarily for an American audience. There are many countries that speak English plus all the other countries where people learn English so they have a universal language to communicate with other countries.
Unless his English is very specially made just for Americans I don't see how this video is obviously made for Americans besides what op wrote
This is false. Worked as patrol for years in Europe and the majority of off piste (in and around the resorts) are avalanche controlled. Very different to backcountry riding.
Thank you 💯
Seems logical since people will always go off-slope.
@@cascadecontroller plus an avalanche could start off slope and then sweep over the trail.
I think there is a difference in "offpiste" and "offpiste". For example in the Swiss Alps you have avalanche control for nearly all areas along ski ressorts. (Most ressorts even inform their riders whether there is a low or high risk of avalanche when leaving the prepared pists.)
We have yellow routes, basically unprepared pistes which are technically offpiste but there are yellow poles indicating roughly where you can ride along more or less safely - but there is no ski patrol and no guarantees. Then there are Ski routes which you can look at on maps to see where it is "safe" to ride completely independant of any ski ressorts.
And then there is the true offpiste which is just nature. No markings, no patrol, no routes, no guarantees of safety. Just like you also have in forests. You don't get a danger sign when walking near a cliff somewhere in the woods, so why should you get a warning on snowy areas?
I think it's wild to not mention how much bigger the managed pist areas are compared to NA.
EU basis is that a private company can run pist and lifts but the mountain is public. So whatever you do off pist is not private company's business. Police can restrict/punish offpist if the conditions are not safe, usually for avalanche reasons. IDK how it is regulated in usa.
my local mountain is a national forest and is leased by the resort. Off piste is all managed by the mountain and included in maps. Definitely my favorite part about skiing in the USA.
@@yaush_ nice. Thanks for the point of view
How does it work in the US? Do you prepare the whole mountain? I’m confused.
East coast, pretty much whole mountain accept for woods. West coast off piste is usually marked as off limits.
Just depends where you are, id assume it's similar to Europe. I ski in Utah and there are groomed runs, ungroomed but in-bounds areas, and out of bounds sections that are obviously uncontrolled. Some resorts will pull your pass if you go out of bounds/duck the ropes, but much of the western US has backcountry.
@@rogerrinkavage in Europe only the Pisten (Prepared runs) are controlled. Everything else is personal risk and not insured by the ski pass.
They also do avalanche control in high risk areas by intentionally setting them off so that skiers or borders don’t set them off later
@@rogerrinkavageisnt the mountain like public land, so why cant you ski wjere you want?
My European resort definitely does have avalanche control off piste, at least on those off piste areas that are theoretically easily accessible via lift.
I have been going skiing to the Austrian Italian and Swiss alps yearly for twenty years. The off-piste areas are avalanche controlled and as safe as possible.
I was in Switzerland this year, they mark “off-piste” (unprepared) runs with single yellow poles, you stay 15m to either side. I’m sure other countries have this also.
That's usually called a 'ski-route'. It's an unprepared track, but controlled for avalanche risk. If there is a risk, the route is closed (check before you enter one).
Everything else outside of the groomed pistes is considered offpiste and unsecured, even venturing 1 meter outside of the piste-markers.
But that's also a legal disctinction, if you are outside the piste, they are not responsible. But they are also not stupid, nobody wants buried visitors 1 meter outside a piste (although that has happened in the past), and when it's possible to secure more (by setting off potential avalanches) the authorities usually will.
That's still a track
Thats just completely wrong. There is not the one style in Europe. You can have a ski area like la grave, this ski resort has one slope going from 3,6km to 3,4km rest is untouched, but ofc different routes are marked.
Or compare it to innsbruck, the nordkette also doesnt have a slope going to the city, you can find your own route or follow one of the offical routes. But still the ski resort cares about the conditions and make sure there are no avalanches.
It seems your misconception is more based on terrain. The alps are just steeper and that explains most of that.
There are a few exceptions, but generally speaking, the information is accurate. Of course you sometimes have terrain right next to the official slopes that is "controlled" in the way that the resort expects people to ski there so they don't want to have the hassle in case someone falls and just make sure it's safe (remove larger boulders, ...). But there is no guarantee for that. In most resorts, as soon as you go off a marked run (blue, red, black, yellow), you are in "untouched" territory.
@jali5367 that was 20 years ago.
@@dimitrizloterek9149 no. That's simply the case.
Don't confuse it with general avalanche control. Of course some off piste terrain is "indirectly" secured because avalanche control simply needs to secure the whole mountain so avalanches don't crash into infrastructure or all the way down into the valley.
But that still doesn't mean that generally speaking off piste terrain is secured American style
@@jali5367 wtf that's bc alps are steeper not bc one ski resort is doing special work nobody else knows from
This is nonsense. I love how you think the only avalanche mitigation is on the thin runs of piste and not the bits inbetween.... avalanche mitigation is done where nessessary, and the pistes are treat like pistes and off piste is not.... people have been skiing in europe before the USA was even a country
There is avalanche mitigation in Europe and markings for things like cliffs (that are not jumpable) we have nets on the edges of some cliffs and also avalanche nets, they also use controlled explosions to reduce the powder build up when needed.
Don't fk around in the Alpes if you're not a veteran.
The situation can flip to consequences you can't even realise not only for you but for everyone around.
Yea I fell down a six meter cliff once doing this
Sounds like every resort to me. If you go out of bounds, you don't have any trail markings, avi mitigation and you are on your own for finding your way back. The difference in Europe is that a lot of the off piste terrain is massive!
Canadian Snowboarder hear what are you on about its the exact same hear. they have nothing to warn you after you leave the ski trail isn't that normal?
Damn who could've guessed that when you go off the trail and into nature you... *checks notes* go off the trail and into nature
Many people that go off-piste know a lot about avalanche safety, they might even carry a shovel and a gps emitter.
Because these areas can always have you land under an avalanche.
So when do you talk about how it is in the US? Ore do I need to assume everything you say about Europe and then the opposite is the US?
In many countries you get a big fine for going off grid without avalanche equipment.
Thats what makes it fun in Europe
And further more the European Ski resorts are in best conditions when it comes to lifts and preparation. US resorts are still in the 90s compared to the Lift Technology and preparations of the slopes.
I disagree. Europe has no organization for lift lines, so it is a free for all for getting on a lift.
@@Vegas3662sure that’s why you have RFID cards not someone checking your ski ticket or you have even conveyor belts moving the skiers in right order and separating to the lift. Also the lifts have a so called comfort bar, you can put your skis on a bar while riding and more and more lifts have heated seats and a wind shield.
Europe has no single line for lifts and often, especially in France, you'll see half full lifts being sent up when queues can be as long as 20-30 mins. Sorry, but as someone's who's skied both Europe and America in depth, I'd have to give this one to the Americans.
Let’s not also forget that the USA developed the first chairlift, at Sun Valley Idaho.
@@Vegas3662wasn't it at bertherd pass ski resort?
In Norway we don't try to safeguard everything. We just teach people from a young age not to be a dumbass. Works most of the time.
It's not the same everywhere in Europe. What is allowed in France could get you arrested in Austria.
Stop generalizing europe
we all know you never went past Germany and Austria and like France
Come to Slovakia, we have Mountains aswell
Exactly in jasna they mark the freeride zone
look bro i know what you mean and i dont care for generalization when specifics matter but you just named like some of the most popular places for that particular activity across a minimum of 3 nations that among a select few that even have the proper terrain for good skiing.
In this case even if you are correct, YOU are the exception they are the rule.
I actually think the piece is reasonably accurate, having done plenty of of piste and having skied in both continents.
But what is not explained is why the differences exist. It’s nothing to do with culture, and it’s nothing to do with terrain. The reason is completely different. It’s because in North America, the ski area is literally owned (or leased from the state)) by the resort. This has a huge impact on the approach taken. Obviously if people are paying for a ticket to Ski in your area then they are going to expect that the place is safe and that they won’t get killed or injured by natural hazards or rain traps as long as obey signage. I suspect that might also be a reason why US left prices are higher than European lift prices. Basically the resort must ensure that everywhere is safe because it’s their land and people are paying them to ski on it.
In Europe, the Lift Co does not own the land and basically has no jurisdiction over anything, except the marked runs. So in Europe, what you are paying for is Lyft access and prepared runs and some limited avalanche mitigation within the vicinity of the runs but that’s basically it.
So, of course in North America, everything within the resort has to be made safe, because it’s owned and controlled by the resort themselves. This doesn’t apply in Europe, although there might be some ad hoc arrangements here and there.
It’s also explains why there is such a drastic difference in North America between inbound and outbound . And also, why in North America you can’t just slip under ropes and generally do what you want. You’re skiing on someone else’s land and it’s their rules that apply.
Where is in Europe, it’s a bit like taking a train to a dodgy area . You can’t sue the railway just because you take the train to somewhere that’s not safe. But on the other hand, the train company is holding going to stop you if you want to go to the pickpocket area. Even if they wanted to, they don’t have the power.
Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages . The American system means that within the resort you are almost guaranteed safety at least in terms of terrain. So the off-piste experience in North America is actually really good. You can pretty much go anywhere within the resort (as long as you don’t cross ropes) and be confident that you will end up somewhere that doesn’t kill you. It’s a really nice feeling of safety.
But on the other hand, as soon as you leave the Ski area in North America, you really are in the middle of nowhere and completely on your own . Things are much more graduated in Europe.
For the same reason, that’s pretty much why Ski and mounting guiding, is not really a thing in North American resorts . You just don’t need it.
I think at the end of the day, if you are just beginning to get into off P, the North America is probably preferable. It both fields and is safer and you don’t need a guide.. but once you get serious about it then Europe is a better choice, because, although you might not be completely safe, the resorts at least make some effort to secure terrain and much more of European of piste is liift accessible, where is the course in North America the resort has no interest whatever in providing Lyft access to areas outside of the resort.
Apologies for various typographical errors . Dictated on my iPhone and we know how well that works. 🥴
The price difference for ski lifts has nothing to do with the preparation of the slopes.
It’s a very democratized sport in Switzerland for example whereas in the US, it’s business first (Vail resorts has just acquired Crans-Montana and I fear the worst).
The approach and mindset is completely different.
You have to be more responsible as well. You have unprepared slopes (often yellow marked areas, kind of off-pist) and then you have the rest of the mountain that just can’t be covered by the domaine.
You are free to go wherever you want if you assume the dangers and the risks.
Off piste skiing is a hidden gem. Been doing that in Italy since I was a lil kid. Big adrenaline moments.
In general it can be fatal to go off road and not have a gps to track you in case of an avalanche. If you can do that you will be safer. And keep in mind there could be a cliff everywhere, so check the territory beforehand
There are some off-piste routes in a resort we go to. (KitzSki, Austria)
Nothing more fun than an unplanned hike, because you went down too far to get back to a lift from backcountry.
We dont mark the of pist because its litterally IF THE PIST and also we can ski
So in the US the whole mountain is managed or how does that work?
In the US they typically have an area of the mountain that they consider the ski boundary where all the lifts and pistes are inside of. Everything that is inbounds is generally patrolled and checked for safety. Unsafe areas will be roped off. Once you go out of bounds you are on your own for the most part.
So you are telling me that in the USA the whole mountain is maintained and avalanche protected and all connected with lifts?
A day pass also costs 3 times as much. No thx. At least with ungrounded resorts people can afford to go ski every now and then. There it’s only for the wealthy
It's a rocky mountain covered in various layers of snow.
If you want safe, sunbathe... indoors 😁
You should definitely try off-piste skiing. It’s really fun
As someone who only really rides cotton woods, it surprised me that this isn’t more common at all resorts
The way he says "crevice"😂
Don’t be so smug. You are just uneducated. 🤡
crevasse
noun
a deep open crack, especially one in a glacier.
crevice
noun
a narrow opening or fissure, especially in a rock or wall.
And its all at your own risk.
On one hand you need to know what you’re doing, on the other hand you can go and do anything on the mountain, no one will stop you.
Also there’s a lot of good off piste that’s just off the pisted slopes and is visible from the lifts (thanks to the lack of trees), you’re not going to get lost on the basic stuff.
@@Starach All i was saying is, its own risk.
Lets say you injure yourself or get in an avalanche off piste in lets say austria youre fucked.
@@Starach thats the big difference. Here in europe youre allowed to do whatever the fuck you like, because its at your own risk. No insurance will cover.
In France the resorts are huge I don't think it's possible to secure all the backcountry. But whatever the place if you're trapped on a cliff or under an avalanche you will be rescued anyway if you're still able to call them. Just the bill will be VERY different.
I have insurance that covers all research and rescue costs in mountains whatever the sport practice and whatever the slopes. Only 30€ a year
@@jeanmichel2642 thats literally what im trying to say. Costs will be major, "own risk"
It’s the same as just hiking a random mountain in the us. Even one in Maine we have to bring full avi gear
If you are waking up in the hotel when skiing in the Alps and it has snowed during the night you think you're in a war zone due to all the avalanche bombs being set off to make it safe to ski
The resorts do have protection against avalanches, because avalanches could also destroy villages or hurt people on the actual slopes.
I remember skiing in tignes and saw an avalanche caused by off piste skiiers. They were from my country so everyone at my school thought I died when It was on the news lmao.
Immer Runter!!!! Irgendwo kommt man immer an
Any offpiste you can get to with just using the Lifts are going to be avalanche safe.
That’s like Canada too except there is avalanche warnings and prevention
In most of europe it is 2 idk where he was
Sounds to me like its the same in both. We also have off piste courses that are open to the public, thus they make sure no avalances are there. However theyre not always controlled at the end of the day.
It is true that not everything is marked though, i almost took a nice and easy 1m jump, decided against it. That was a good decision, there was a huge garage door below it so i would have fell like 8m onto concrete and that was like 10-15m next to the piste lol
European here, be careful off piste riding is allowed, many resorts in italy ban off slop riding all togather and if caught fine you.
I'm gonna focus on climbing out of BED1 then direct my focus towards K2
Same with USA “off piste”……that’s why resorts will specify “side country” when referring to terrain that is out of bounds but still has some rescue/avi control. Then there’s true “back country” which is completely out of bounds and you’re on your own.
Wouldnt this apply to any ski field if you leave the boundary of the ski field?
I know in Italy if you go even just off the marked trail without a beacon, probe, and shovel you can get a fine
Literally just over easter a bunch of american teens died in Switzerland because they decided to go back country and got got by an avalanche. Europe is no joke dont come to the alps off piste with no experiance and expect a good outcome.
Rock warnings. pls look up my local, Mt Ruapehu
Not only like that in Europe, but mostly
I don't understand how this would be any different in the US.
do you think there’s no backcountry in the US and Canada? or that there are no resorts you can access backcountry from? if so you need to go outside and get off the computer bro
The younger brother of the king of the Netherlands prince friso died after going off-pisté in Austria and was buried by a avalanche
And in the US if you stray from the marked trails you get yelled at and have your pass taken.
"Crev-ah-sis"
Google it before you embarrass yourself.
crevasse
noun
a deep open crack, especially one in a glacier.
Usa: Buuuuhuuuu i wasnt warned, where's my settlement and here's my insurance money
Europe: go ahead and have fun but be careful. If you damage yourself, no probz, everything Is free, well come get you and that's also free unless you were VERY irresponsible going there
Thanks for explaining how It's in the US
Because of people who dont know nothing about the Alps we have every year more and more deaths on our Mountains. Sucks because it also endangers local rescue personel…
This is US and Canada are the only 2 countries that don't embrace system carving skis.
Here in the French Alps, it's la vraie aventure my fellas
dat's not true the avalanche management is not done ONLY on the marcked tracks .... THAT said ! if you are in back country area (off-pistes as most european say) YOU are responsible for your safety and YOU are liable not the resort.
Ahhhhhhhh…. It’s the same in US.
My brother in Christ off piste is just nature obviously nobody is maintaining it why the hell would you
Basically it's more vaulted!
This 100% if you're going to Europe. I went off-piste, it was fun... one time I was on some totally normal looking terrain and just fell into a small hole. It is best to go with a guide, especially your first time off-piste in a park.
I’m not gonna lie, I thought the first clip was the moon 😭
Saying European countries do no avalanche control is the biggest ski slander I ever heard
This is nonsense. In Europe they do a lot of control within the ski area to minimise risk to those on marked piste and the surroundings.
In a US resort if you buy a ticket, ski patrol service is included. This service includes getting you off the mountain if you are injured within the resort boundary. My understanding is in Europe you need to buy rescue insurance in advance or pay out of pocket after the rescue. This includes “in bounds” rescues.
Very much depends on the country. E.g., In France, you can buy a 'carte neige' for about €3 with your lift ticket which will cover your rescue so you don't need to pay out of pocket and then get your travel insurance to reimburse you.
In Norway, they'll put you on the back of a skidoo no questions asked if you get injured on the mountain.
The fuck do you mean, its not off piste when you have a marked and managed place to ski.... that's the whole point of it.
"If you go outside the marked piste of the resort, there will be no markings or infrastructure". Oh really, you dont say
As somebody who's been to multiple mountains all over the globe this is nonsense
I liked the part where he explained how it worked in the US
I think that to e need for avalanche training and all that is a bit exaggerated. I have been skiing for 14 years and going of piste is never a problem is you watch out for the signals. They are usually on lifts and tell you the risk of avalanche as long as those are in green then following tracks is 99% safe.
This is for im Avoriaz France and also places like Austria and Switzerland
Just 2 weeks ago an american and 3 others lost their life to an avalanche in Zermatt, Switzerland.
Yeah better dont do that in europe if you are not a local!
You didn't say a word about the American one
This is not true at all, there is something called a ski route that is avalanche secured and usually also has markings for hazards. Except there is no difficulty grading system for ski routes
Ski routes are marked. If you leave the marked terrain you are in the backcountry/wilderness on your own responsibility.
You’re talking about what we call “yellow runs” in Switzerland. Not sure what it’s called in other European countries but they off piste routes marked and controlled for avalanche. They are not groomed and are often great powder fields, but it’s still a controlled area.
That's not just Europe! That's a common sense from everywhere. Maybe not USA 😅
If you go off the trails, where does the private property start? Could you be trespassing? No one seems to care about that.
Mountains are owned by the state, aka the people. Only in America that people can own mountains and rivers.
Tf do you mean private property? 😂 It’s a mountain. No one owns a fucking mountain
@fullfungo4476 Come to Australia then dude. I know plenty of people who do.
It’s called freedom
No fun when there is no real risk
"those who choose to visit Europe" bro thinks Europe is a place no one lives, and is there just for americans to visit 💀
Americans are children. Need constant supervision, carefully safe, bordered playgrounds.
100% BEST ADVICE --> from someone who officially fucked up in North America. Rescue, ticket, court, fine. Total embarrassment and near death experience. Trust me when I say... I would have happily walked my ass out and avoided the nightmare!