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Is Bowers & Wilkins' 801 D4 Signature the World's Best All Round High End Loudspeaker?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- In this episode, David debriefs Mike on a recent visit to B&W's HQ, where he compared the company's seminal 801 D4 with the new 801 D4 Signature version. It was a very interesting experience to hear this brute of a high end speaker, and hints at the shape of the forthcoming 801 D5. And it raises the question about what constitutes "the best speaker in the world", as the new Signature is certainly a candidate for the job!
Each episode of Hi-Fi Riff features Mike and David's unedited, unexpurgated views about all manner of weird and wonderful hi-fi designs. Business executive Mike has a wealth of knowledge from previous hi-fi retail experience, and David has written about hi-fi for thirty years. Now Editor-in-Chief of StereoNET, he's picked up a few things along the way.
So relax and enjoy some one-take hi-fi riffing - and please leave your comments below. And don’t forget to hit the Subscribe button, this one goes up to eleven!
The eighties-tastic title tune is called ‘UFO/Mike’s Jumper’, and used with the express permission of our old pal and rights holder Simon Lythe.
To read David's in-depth StereoNET review of the B&W 801 D4 Signature, click here: www.stereonet.com/uk/reviews/...
Follow Hi-Fi Riff on Instagram: hifiriff
Anyone who hasn't watched Detectorist series, you must do. One of the best gentle comedy series ever produced.
I'm running my pair of B&W 705 s2 Signatures off an Exposure 3510 and you're right about it being a fine match indeed (a bit more terrestial price wise). I'm drooling over those 801 Sigs though.....
I have the 706 s2 which I like matched with my cheap rotel a10...wondering how much better the exposure 2510 might be?
@@cosbro5389 The exposure 2510 will knock spots off the Rotel A10. You'll pay a pretty penny for that difference though.
After all that build up, when Mike asked "What were they like?" and David paused, I so so wanted him to say "They were shit!"
Sadly not to be.
True all round speakers are rare. So many of us end up listening to the stuff our speakers like, rather than what we like.
That would have been Price Less. (see what I did there).
Mike
They are not shit, but at least they are strangley tuned to my ears - please see my short impresions on D4's above.
I have head the 802D4 in private demos in a good room at my local dealer. The frequency response is far too rough. Male vocals sound thin and they have a spike at 5k-ish followed by tipped up highs. They are very well built and detailed but they are far from “all rounders).
@@JamesWilliams-gf8gm I do not know about the vocals, because I listened to jazz trio - EST - but sound stage for sure did not sound coherent... and especially grand piano sounded strange, with ironish zings - I could go for it was dry and rough somehow, trying to be over detailed and unnatural magnifier of frequencies (is this a Michi's ot Tidal's fault - lack of sinergy??) - - I've never before heard such grandpiano's sound live or from any recording or hifi system. Very strange experience in total.
I would exchange them -D4's for oldtimer car in great condition Citroen DS :))
Does checking for this upload repeatedly since Saturday morning make me a sad bastard? Or a RIFFER
Makes you a legend (well, to me anyway).
Mike
Start the petition for Mike to get a pair of these
Signature added.
Mike
The double decal on the TR7!!? No wonder it only went for £35!!!! 😂😂
At the Toronto Audiofest last year ..one of the best rooms was the B&W with Classe’ source chain…it was a great experience….and a great price tag.
"Reassuringly expensive", as someone once said!
Tricky to get a good sound in some of these rooms too.
Toronto show on my bucket list... especially as a Rush fanboy.
Mike
I must admit I find the numbering of the B&W 800 series loudspeakers somewhat confusing. I’m old enough to remember the introduction of the original 801 and followed its evolution up to the 801 Nautilus (the latter being great looking speaker in my humble opinion).
The 800 series to appear to be an evolution of the original 802 model with the narrower cabinet and the smaller twin bass drivers but is now designated 800 D4 as the flagship model!
Yes very confusing. Especially for someone who is not following b&w. They should copy Mercedes or bmw modeling numbers.
@@Kodiak727 BMW numbering used to be simple, a 325 was a three series with a 2.5 engine. Now that’s all gone, the numbers no longer correlate!
I'm so glad it's not just me.
Mike
The question is: how often would you upgrade a $40k pair of loudspeakers? (I can't afford a single pair, much less think about upgrading it regularly.). But it is definitely an object of desire...
They are absolutely beautiful speakers but the way they boost the high-end as part of their signature sound is too fatiguing for me. I had a few pairs of 700s both the towers and stand-mounts both the older and newer models and they sounded great at first but the high-end boost and lack of life with live music had me returning all 3 pairs. The 800 series are better but still with their signature sound from my listening tests. They still look beautiful but they have to sound great and look great to be keepers. Thanks for the video. Keep on riffing!
B&W, Bright&Wooly.
@@jimfarrell4635 I would certainly agree that was an accurate characterisation of the 801, 25 years ago. Not now though.
In my view the 801 has been seriously good since the D3, and it's still improving at quite a pace. It's hard not to like now, even if you're no fan of the brand.
@@MrVinylista Sorry. Came into my head and I couldn't resist. Leaning into the stereotype. To my shame I have never heard a pair of B&Ws, never mind the 801s.
IMO panels & subs are magical 😊
i just checked as i only saw one nautilus 801 matrix or whatever that resembles a lot but they are more modern , i thought the nautilus were one that as to be ordered as it was cool in the 80´s ,i almost bought a set of those but instead a i bought a 65 mercedes 280S coupé from the U.S. as it has those two round lights with a chromed frame in each side and with money to spare i bought a house by the sea, another song but i´m talking serious
I had the opportunity to listen to these and the normal 801’s and I couldn’t hear a difference 🤷🏽♂️I eventually ordered a pair of more budget friendly used 802 D4’ss with my Michi electronics.
How come they don't make the prestige finish anymore?? This was really really nice
Thanks, that was all very interesting.
Probably my stupidity but I'm very confused about how much the TR went for.
Keep up the good work chaps.
35K. Guess it helps that it was in the show!
@@titntin5178 i bought a cerebra in late 80´s and WHAT A CAR!!!
If your views go up MASSIVELY please don’t blame me for posting this video on Andrew Robison’s channel covering the same loudspeaker. You too are far more polished and professional 🤣
Always here for your riffs!
Not particularly interested in these speakers - B&W speakers all have a lifted top end that makes them very fatiguing for my ears (their 'signature sound') and I would not lust after these. Probably good for a smaller demo but not my idea of a speaker to listen to all day :)
Always glad to hear you chew the fat though...
Thanks. We knew this would be a Marmite Riff but I wanted to share my experiences of this monster speaker.
You can read my full review on StereoNET, of course.
It's certainly a bit too big for background music!
@@MrVinylista Cheers dave - I'll pop along to stereoNET, as I often do, and learn a little more! It's all relative of course and I'm sure that I'd enjoy the sound regardless :) Not the same scale of course but I run Wharfedale elysians in my little front room, so I'm used to large heavy units!
Edit - nice write up, anyone would swear you were a successful journalist and reviewer :) It did make me want to be there with you listening to those tracks..
@@titntin5178 Thanks. Despite appearances to the contrary, I do try hard to get on top of my subject! StereoNET is full of excellent hi-fi reviews edited by yours truly, so enjoy!
David could we have a riff on robin marshall speaker what happen to him
Did you use exposure 4dr or the 4 single or dual power supply ?
Your right there brilliant speakers the 800 series
I had a mate who worked in the Speke factory.
It's a miracle that anything actually came out of the factory gates. The whole plant and project was a shitshow from top to bottom.
Meanwhile, over the road, Ford were pumping out relativity reliable cars such as the Escort with minimal fuss and making a profit.
Don't tell David
most of the people who know about hi-fi devices i know all have this speakers, this till 86 years old ,but they have a lot of high_end amplification systems and turntables also cd players but no matter how expensive is the cd player when you have all good the records seem to give a almost in your room playing music feeling, but i remenber one set of B&W(written Bowers & wilkins in the bottom of the cylinder) that had only a big woofer and round box cylinder type and the pigeont drop tweeter above the mid´s, he the man with 86 years old showed me his hidden room that if he doesn´t take you there it doesn´t seem to exist there a room, he as all turntables considered good known to men ,i only have 32 now i had 28 some years ago but he ofered me one i bought two others in second hand also the P10 bought last december and had bought the Linn sondek Lp 12 new looking old turntable but i had already a Linn with superior quality so it was a flash bought, but i think i closed the buying hi-fi componentsb department as i already have more than i can assemble and listen with till i ,puff , out of work sign ,also made a playlist and drinks and drugs to my closest family and still alive friends and girlfriends ,this from 10.00p.m. to the next day at 10.00 in the morning all is prepared unless i´m one of those that as 110 years old and when the tv reporter asks me if i´m happy and what was the secret of living so many years, i would reply " smoked and drinked a lot passed my adult life consuming hard drugs and please kill me ,now but before you look like you can seat in my lap to know what a granddaddy feels like and yes i am a pervert!!!" like other song "pure pleasure seeker"
John 11:35
Guinness, straight from the can? 😮
Glass was offered.
Mike
What's the difference between the D3 and the D4???
He says the Michi m5…Michi has the m8 mono block and the s5 stereo amps. Which is it?
C'mon, David. Watch Detectorists! No more excuses.
Exactly!
Mike
Hi David, How does Exposure 5010 series compare to Mitchi integrated/ separates?
Any experience with the new Franco Serblin Accordo Goldberg?
A different sound. Exposure is warmer, creamier, arguably more rhythmically capable. The Michi series is clean and clinical, super powerful, detailed and forensic. Coffee to the Exposure's tea, maybe? So it depends what you like. Both are really strong ranges, though
Is 5010 significantly better than 3510 series considering the price difference?
Evening gents👍👍
Evening kjbb
Hmmm… so by late 2021 B&W were working on the Signature model which surely makes mugs out of the owners of the original models, considering that they must have thought this was the best speaker they could have bought? Do B&W offer an upgrade for the originals?
That's marketing, folks.
To be fair, pretty much every manufacturer is working on the replacement to the new model by the time the new model is released. It's an ongoing process.
It's just that B&W are being frank and open about it.
The willy on the top puts me off B&W for some odd reason
😂
Really need you guys to start reviewing some hi-end speakers, please? 🥸🍻
Midway he attempts to compare the signature d4 to the regular D4, and I could not understand why the signature is better than the regular. There must be some reason why it's better because he did say it clearly sounded better but why. This is probably the sweet spot of the video for delivering a message and I don't think he succeeded at all.
Sounds about right for Hi Fi Riff 😂
Mike
Sleep aid. Not the speakers, David’s review. I’m surprised Mike was able to remain awake.
The best in the world? Ever been to the show in Munich?
Yes, almost every year since it started. And before that, the Frankfurt Show.
Please note my use of the phrase "all round", Alexander. The 801 D4 Sig does a lot of things very well - but there are various very high end designs that surpass it in some individual respects.
Hope that makes more sense now.
@@MrVinylista Thank you for your response. I did notice the ,,All Round,, phrase but still I did find
best in the world such a bold statement. I wish you and your very friendly companion a fine day.
(next time,perhaps something more affordable?)
@@alexandervaneijken7741 It's a bit 'clickbait' but for many audiophiles, these are the ones to beat in the high end. I hope you think the discussion was more nuanced than the headline! Thanks for viewing and commenting, and we do lots more affordable stuff - click on the 'Hi-Fi Riff' channel title to see them.
David might have to purchase another car to fit them in.😊
Anyone want to buy a Volvo C70? That might just buy me a pair of fifteen year old 801 Ds!
@@MrVinylista Not to mention some spare change for some Detectoriists DVDs.Rumor has it that Elvis Costello was quite a fan and enjoyed watching that show so much that he wrote a song about it.🙂
Come on guys ,this is becoming advertising lol do stuff we can afford!
We have a £40 pair of classic Sansui speakers coming soon for you!
Money in this market has got utterly ridiculous cost of speakers,electronics,transmission lines no sound is worth these prices
I had a chance to listen to B&W speakers in 2021. The bookshelves 6 series with Marantz gear were a iritating sound nest mess with lots of ringing and zinging. I was really disappointed. They sounded like a wanna be a great hi-fi but instead comes out a crappy sound, unlistenable to my ears.
And then 802 or 803/D4's with top Michi gear... interesting in some ways (magnifying details, exaggerated popping out some details) but also somehow unnatural presentation... the live music... instruments simply do not sound so and also had some strange zings... maybe this is modern hi-endish sound, but to my ears is not even a hi-fi = high fidelity sound. My impression was, they are great hi-end for home theatre and video games - they are capable speakers, no doubt.
But I will go there - to a local dealer's studio - and listen to them again with some different music - not just acoustic jazz trio.
Some audiophiles say that Michi gear is not an appropriate match for such D4 B&W's.... Thomas Tan said that the only time he heard D4 speakers to sound really good was with some hi-end class D amp (nearly 100k USD gear), but I do not remember the brand... and no one of my much more expeienced audiophile friends than I am, likes them.
Here is the proof that we (people) have veeery very different registers about what is a good, natural sound, because specialists there at B&W must have a total different taste and register to put up such speakers, than I/we have. Soo... Where is Laurence Dickie?
Great comment. If you're spending this much money you have a right to get precisely the sort of sound you crave - and at the high end, loudspeakers sound very different to one another. Contrast the 801 D4 to the MartinLogan Renaissance ESL 15a, for example - a massively diverging end result. Ditto the Vivid Audio Giya G1 Spirit, as per your reference.
Also, any true high end speaker is extremely revealing of the source, and the amplifier driving it. It's basically a complex jigsaw puzzle of equipment matching, room matching and personal preference that you have to solve, to get the sound you want. Which is of course why hi-fi magazines and TH-cam channels should only be used as introductory guides to the subject - you simply must audition at a dealer before you buy.
@@MrVinylista Thank you. Well yes... that's why I would like to listen to D4's with some other music and also some other amplification, I hope.
This is a part of text I just wrote on RealWorldAudio channel:
"Cayin tube amp in ultralinear or triode mode had very different impacts on both speakers. VP's (Voigt pipes) in ultralinear mode sounded like they got a fair dose of morphine. Very veiled presentation, Not good at all. But in triode mode everything comes more alive and the soundstage was a big bath of pure sound of joy... so pleasant and so engaging, vocals become fuller, with true body, 3D... ok it was warm, coloured sound, but who cares... very different from my JLH1969 class A amp where the sound is very alive, energetic and dynamic, a bit thinner, but also engaging but in different way (my friend also started to sing along - which combination of this amp and speakers also evokes singing with me :-)).
But Pluvia's (drivers) in VP with tube amp in triode mode sounds really enjoyable for long listening sessions. Interestingly I liked Spendors more in ultralinear mode than in triode (this is opposite than with Pluvia VP's, which does not count for my friend).
Another surprise: My little 2x10W class A amp at first did not work well with more power hungry Spendors, listening to pop mix CD - Pauly Young, Adel, Paul Simon. But then i put in CdPlayer (Marantz mk17II KI with Philips 1547 DAC chip) Magic Voices compilation by DECCA, and... wooow... then Spendors sung with this amp amazingly good.
@@MrVinylista And yes... I can imagine, by my realtive modest experiences by so far, that I would end up in 2-3 years period with 2-3 different speakers, and 2-3 different amps and preamps... which is a magic of this hobby :))
@@majtextwriter1794 That's precisely where I've landed, after over 40 years of upgrading. It's either the magic, or the curse, depending on your point of view!
@@MrVinylista Yeess...you can be a specialist -athlet or do a triathlon or decathlon... :))
I did stop with audiophilia like 18 years ago, because it seemed to me a way into course. But now, with my DIY experiments and YT and intenet communities is more fun and you can do a lot with less money and I've evolved as a person too :))
What is it about B&W? They produce all this shouty crap in their lower ranges and then absurdly OTT objects of desire for massively wealthy show-offs with their higher lines? They are in the business of envy creation, not a company with much integrity imho.
Which high end brand doesn't make 'show-off' speakers?
@@MrVinylista Of course a lot of them do but I don't think their lower ranges are so universally criticised for being harsh in the higher frequencies. I have Triangle speakers and I think, as a company, all of their speakers are carefully designed to give you bang for buck from top to bottom. Mind you, they are a much smaller firm than B&W, who I believe blow quite a lot of dough in the marketing department.
why does one of you have still hair and the other not?one isn´t married or does not live with his wife and other lives with wife, and has a lot of children mainly girls or women is it? as i am in my fifth wife and the last, as i always liked beautifull women, is like art as music also is and good old cars and everything else that relaxes the human mind or the litle pea inside, not to ofend but only curiosity and don´t tell me that "curiosity kill the cat" as i don´t even liked the band
That sounds like the lyrics to a Leonard Cohen song.
Not at all is it the best all round speaker . Why audition a £45k speaker with midfi amplifiers ?
The amps are excellent, and Bowers & Wilkins use them in their own reference system. Suggest you check them out if you can.
@@MrVinylista Mixed reviews from what im readfing . Offshored to Malaysia at which point the quality took a nose dive . As for checking them out ? I'll stick to what I'm using and I cant really see that changing anytime soon . I'm not a fan of the newer B&W . I lost interest when they aborted the 801 Nautilus and 15 inch low end .
@@inonothing09 Well it always helps to hear something before pronouncing on its sound quality. I'd never slag off a car without driving it...
It's always a personal thing, though. The Rotels have quite an 'etched', solid-state sound which isn't everyone's cup of tea. But they're hugely detailed and powerful, and that's hard to argue with.
Not my favourite amps, but very capable all the same. Different strokes for different folks, of course...
@@MrVinylista In the days of 6 figure amplifiers 4 figure ampliers are going to be found lacking .When compared to Pilium or CH Precision can Exposure be held in the regard ?
Its a darlek. No its not.its a speaker.are you shore mr reviewer.
If it's a Dalek, it's a very loud one!
Average speakers
As soon as you said GBP 45k I stopped watching. Detectorists is a joy.
Swap you a pair for an old TR7
there's no such thing as the world's best speaker and B&W is definitely not it. Remember everybody's hearing is different.
It’s all opinion and personal preference
Not even close.