"A Christian Case Against Donald Trump" by retired evangelical pastor Pat Kahnke. Introduction: Common Questions people ask Question 4: How can I be pro-life and anti-Trump?
I'm almost 75 years old and well remember what life was like for women before Roe. It was not illegal for a husband to rape his wife. A woman could not have a checking account, own real property, take out a loan, have a credit card unless her husband or father was the holder of the account. I was turned down for good jobs because I was of "child-bearing age." I wasn't a Christian when I got pregnant out of "wed-lock" but knew that there was a life in me that I didn't have the right to harm. My beautiful daughter will be 55 next month! So, I guess I'd say that, as far as a secular government is concerned, I'm pro-choice - as uncomfortable as I am with these politicized terms. I do not believe, neither do I find any authority in Scripture, to support Christians' demand that secular law control morality at this level. I love the Lord and pray for all those who are faced with this pain. And for all the woman and girls who are forced by their secular government to carry a dead child, to face hemorrhage, to die because the government said that they must. I don't doubt that these words will draw criticism. So be it.
@@tgriffin3059 rape is forced sex - an act of violence - and a husband absolutely can, and too often does, rape his wife. (I'm a retired attorney - I've seen it!) A wife is not the property of her husband. What's the point? A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her. Ephesians 5:25, not to use her for his pleasure whether or not she is willing.
@@tgriffin3059 Are you serious? So in a husband/wife relationship, you say the women has no right to consent? The point is women should have the same rights inside marrriage as they have outside of it. It simply shocks me that people like you, with medieval moral values still exist today.
@@tgriffin3059 A real man treats his wife with respect and as an equal. When a man considers his wife to be his property, and treats her like a second-class citizen, that's not a marriage, it's a master-slave relationship. Jesus treated women as equals. All men should too.
I would say that I am pro-life. But that does not mean I am anti-abortion for all the same reasons that you state. I am rather dismayed that no matter how thoughtful and sincere Pat is, on so many issues, he quite literally does not seem to grasp what a 100% pro-life stance means to so many people. Overturning Roe is simply pandering to a bunch of holier than thou religious thugs so that they can smugly say how morally upstanding they are over the rest of us. This doesn't apply to all pro life Christians of course, but I believe it applies to a lot of the far right Trump loving ones.
Just like you, Pat Kahnke, I could not vote for Trump or Clinton in 2016 for the same reasons. If I could go back, I would vote for Clinton. I have been (and am) a Christian most of my life. I have been (and am) pro-life all my life. I am no longer anti-abortion. That ended when Roe vs. Wade was overturned. Why? Because dead pregnant mothers do not give birth to live babies. 10 year old girls are not physically mature enough to have babies. Women who have miscarriages should never face interrogation about their loss. Women should never have to carry an unviable pregnancy that risks their fertility and/or life. Tubal pregnancies need to be terminated immediately, not wait for a court to decide. No rape or incest victim should have to prove they were victimized. Doctors shouldn't have to risk prosecution in order to save the life of their patient.
i agree. this is strictly a woman's issue that does not affect men in any way. All we hear is ban abortions, but we don't hear let's ban men that do not use birth control, men that refuse to have a vasectomy, men who sexually abuse women and teen girls, men that buy pornography, men that are buying and selling in the sex trafficking industry that brings in more money than heroin sales in the USA.
back in 1987, I woke up one morning hemorrhaging and in labor pain. I had a 4 month old baby prior to this incident. I called my mother who drove me to the ER. My doctor met us there. He said I was having a miscarriage and I needed an immediate emergency therapeutic abortion. Fortunately I was competent and could sign my own consent papers. My husband was brainwashed by a fundamentalist religion that believed all abortions were a sin. It's a good thing he didn't make it to the hospital until i was already in the OR. If he had heard my dr. using the word therapeutic abortion, he would have showed himself at the hospital for everybody to see. I really believe my husband would have let me bleed to death before he'd get off his high horse he's been riding all his life. I've heard my own minister say that "if you are riding a high judgmental horse, you better be riding the saddle of impeccable righteousness."
I am in my early 40s and am staunchly pro-choice (and vehemently anti-Trump), but I find it interesting to listen to some of your videos. I grew up in a Christian household where it was taken for granted that being Christian means being Republican. To the point where my mother voted for Trump even though she couldn’t stand him. I remember as a kid the first time I really started doubting some of what I was raised to believe. I was in a car with my older sister driving, so I am guessing I was around 10 years old. Rush Limbaugh came on the radio and said some pretty ugly stuff. I told my sister I didn’t like that man at all, he seemed like a bad guy. She was shocked and told me “but he’s a Christian. He’s on our side!” That stunned me. I was so shocked to hear this man was a Christian. And that planted some seeds of doubt that stayed with me into adulthood. They matured during the Obama years when the people around me said terrible things about Obama, but when I asked what made him such an evil guy, they couldn’t answer me. I began to understand exactly how Christian beliefs were being used to manipulate them into voting for people with bad intentions and hating people who weren’t perfect, but certainly not evil. I realized being a single issue or Christian issues voter was a fatal flaw, because that leaves us all sitting ducks for the worst of humanity. All they had to do was say the right things, claim to support select issues that required them to actually do nothing good, and Christians would line up behind them like good little sheep and vote for them no matter what else they did. It was a horrifying realization. Ever since, my beliefs have continued to evolve. I have had to take my hard looks at myself and what I believed, and it was uncomfortable to say the least. You don’t want to see yourself as foolish as ignorant, but if you can’t see yourself as you actually are, then you have no hope of improving and being the person you want to be.
The absolute best explanation of being raised with certain reliefs, realizing the lack of substance for those beliefs, and having the awareness and insightfulness to make corrections that are appropriate to who you are and not fall under someone else’s blindness.
Well said! Why is it so difficult for people to see the difference between living your faith as a Christian and just claiming you are for your own selfish lust for power and riches? Jesus told us we would be able to tell who they were and what they stood for by the fruit they would bear. How are they able to ignore all the evil and stay focused on the one issue they have no right to decide for everyone? They are trying to play God. Its arrogance and great folly, and will cause much more evil than they are trying to prevent.
Can’t tell you how much I LOVE to hear you speak and explain this very difficult subject. I became a believer when I was 18 years old, right in the middle of deciding whether to have an abortion after finding out I was pregnant. I was 18, just graduated high school, unmarried and had been experimenting with recreational drugs and alcohol. I couldn’t imagine that it was right timing for me to bear a child, so I decided to have an abortion. I struggled to feel a sense of forgiveness for years afterwards, but one day way down the road, I was holding and rocking my newborn baby and it hit me that God wasn’t punishing me, he was rewarding me with new life. If he could forgive and bless, then I needed to forgive myself and move I to a healthy mental space about the abortion I had. I was part of a very pro life church but I never felt safe to talk about my abortion. It wasn’t until after my last baby was born and we were attending a different church that I heard a friend talk about her abortion, and I was able to share my story. Through tears, I felt a sense of healing. I am still pro life, but I’m also pro woman, and because I believe Donald Trump is a wicked man, I will not vote for him, even though it’s who most pro life people will vote for. It may be their defining issue but it’s not mine anymore. By the way, I e been married to the same man for 42 years and successfully birthed and raised 9 beautiful children to adulthood. God is good, better than we will ever know in this life.
It is so good to hear a conservative talk about being against capital punishment and in favor of gun control. You show great wisdom and humility in your approach to these very difficult issues.
You are a wise man and I love how carefully thought out your positions are AND that you’re willing to change your mind as your grow and more of the nuances come to light. I voted for Trump in 2016 for the very same reasons you pointed out. Never again!! That was a huge mistake we Christian’s made based on that one issue. Thank you for explaining your perspective because it helps me to vote against Trump no matter what until this MAGA movement is defeated and goes away.
There is a difference between an anti-abortionist and a pro-life person. An anti-abortionist wants to make abortion illegal, period. A pro-life person seeks to better the lives of all people. A pro-life person tends to support a universal healthcare system, unemployment insurance and welfare. A pro-life person also tends to support paid sick days, paid maternity leave, affordable daycare services, affordable long-term care, old age security pensions....A pro-life person is against any form of abuse and the death penalty. As far as I'm concerned, if a society establishes healthy and robust social safety nets, it will reduce the need for abortions; it would not eliminate the need completely since medical emergencies are not always preventable. I truly believe that legally banning abortions is an irresponsible way of dealing with a complex issue that is pregnancy.
I'm Catholic, pro-life, anti-trump and a retired OB/maternal/child health RN of 50+ years. I agree wholeheartedly with you. During my working years in a Catholic hospital OB department, I cared for women in varying trimesters of pregnancy. I recall a mother at 20 weeks gestation whose bag of waters ruptured. Her OB admitted her to labor and delivery. A 20 week old unborn baby was and is unable to survive if birthed. Premature ruptured bag of waters is a maternal life threatening complication. There was no question about what had to happen: mom had symptoms of infection, blood test results confirmed infection. Her OB first spoke with his patient, her husband and other family members, explaining her infection, and need to induce labor to prevent worsening infection despite antibiotics, an infection leading to probable hysterectomy, and a risk of her death. Of course, he acknowledged the sadness that her baby couldn't survive at 20 weeks of pregnancy if born. Patient gave her consent to proceed with labor induction after risks and benefits of that process were explained. Her doctor spoke about 30 minutes on the phone, consulting with the OB chief, chief of all medical staff, administrator, and spiritual services director, explaining the case and plan for labor induction and delivery of the baby. I was her nurse during labor and delivery. I cared for her, following the protocols for induction. I did my very best to do so in a caring, compassionate, and respectful way. When her tiny baby was born, he lived for only a few minutes, during which time he was held by his mama, and for quite some time after. This was not an abortion. This was not murdering a baby. This was a necessary medical decision made to save a mother's life with her informed consent. Had she not given her consent, she would've still been given all necessary medications, had many blood tests to monitor the infection, and continuously monitored for worsening symptoms. At some point, labor would've started on it's own, and her baby born. However, in all likelihood, by that time, she would've been very ill, with infection throughout her body, possibly close to death. The restrictive abortion laws in red states will cause mor maternal and infant deaths. My anger at so-called "pro-life" politicians in red states passing horribly restrictive abortion laws is greatest each time I read a story of a pregnant woman suffering with a miscarriage, tubal pregnancy or other complication, living in those states. Apologies for the long comment.
One should also note that one of the biggest differences between the current front runners is this: Democrats tend to vote for policy issues, not a person; on the other hand, one does not vote anymore for conservative values, but for one single individual, Donald Trump. This is because Trump has no moral center, much less policy positions (one person who worked for him says he generally goes with the decision of the last person he talked to!). He is for whatever he believes will benefit him personally, and at the moment, evangelicals provide him with the support he needs to stay ahead; but make no mistake, my evangelical friends: You are simply _useful tools._ He will turn on you in a heartbeat if you stray from the path. Choose Christ (for once) over him, and you will find yourself in the proverbial arena facing some very hungry lions.
A strange conclusion considering the topic of this video. Many vote for Trump while holding their noses, e.g. not the person, because his policies were supportive of a Pro-Life position. You can try to dismiss that by saying that Trump holds that position for political expediency, but that doesn't change the fact that the voter who voted on policy not the person achieved their policy goal. As far as the rest, I agree Trump isn't to be trusted, but it doesn't follow that the alternative is to be trusted. They've already turned against Christian values, and have proven they are no friends to Christians or Christian values.
Does anyone at all seriously think Donald Trump has ever given so much as a passing thought any deeper than what will serve his immediate needs on this issue? If so, I have a bridge to sell.
You have a lot to learn friend. First, if you are a Christian, you would know things will get much , much worse. It doesn’t matter who is elected. What is meant to happen, will happen. Until it does , do your best to make the world a better place. Over half your country men see great things in Trump. Witnessed kindness and sincerity. Love everyone both conservative and liberals.
@@deepashtray5605 good morning. Yes there are many instances where Trump was kind, generous, and thoughtful. But if your mind is made up about him, and you if you only listen to msmn . It won’t help if I share the stories. You can start by looking into the homeless lady he let stay in one of his hotels for free for years, or he recently paid off the mortgage of a widow who’s husband dies in the line of duty
I was born in 1955, and I remember the world before Roe V Wade, and why I oppose abortion but don't see laws against it as preventing a dang thing. I'm going to talk about that world, how Roe V. Wade changed it, and how the pro-life movement made a liberal out of me. People will tell you that Roe V. Wade doubled abortion, but it didn't. It doubled LEGAL abortion, but not how many were actually happening--it exposed the truth. Abortion was actually more common before Roe V. Wade than it is today. Doctors just wrote it down as a polyp removal, or women took a bus to a different state where it was legal, or they mail-ordered "menstrual regulators"--concoctions that would cause them to miscarry. The only reason coat-hanger abortions happened was because teenage girls were so terrified of anyone finding out that they were even pregnant in the first place--because the consequences were horrific! If you got pregnant out of wedlock, your life was over. In some cases literally, because most parents felt socially obliged to kick you out of their home, and some girls died of hypothermia. It was just expected, something they "had to" do. Similarly all schools and colleges had a policy of expelling any girl or woman who got pregnant--so your education ended. If you had a job and turned up pregnant out of wedlock, you'd likely get fired. Sometimes you were even fired for getting pregnant in wedlock, but at least you'd have a husband to support you and the child. But only the sleaziest employers would hire somebody known to have gotten pregnant without a wedding ring; if you were lucky that meant earning a poverty-level wage at a dive bar or a strip joint. If you were unlucky that meant prostitution. And even some soup kitchens wouldn't serve food to someone visibly pregnant without a spouse. Similarly, unwed mothers couldn't rent from anybody except those who didn't care about their establishment's reputation. So even if you didn't become a prostitute, yourself, your child would still grow up in an atmosphere of crime and degradation. What Roe V. Wade did was wake up the Christian community to the problem. We saw how our own judgmentalness was driving this horror. We started fighting for the right for girls and women to stay in school, we started charities to help impoverished mothers, and instead of shaming parents for keeping their pregnant daughters at home, we started praising them. Gradually the numbers of abortion per capita started to shrink. And frankly, they shrank faster under Democrats than under Republicans. Because it wasn't hidden any longer. In the 1990's the UN made a survey of abortions all over the world. I used to have the number of that survey so people could look it up, but a computer crash years ago obliterated it. They found that whether or not abortion was legal did not impact abortions per capita--but what did impact it was how that society treated women, children, and families. Did they have safety nets for impoverished families? Did girls get an adequate education? Did jobs offer maternity leave? Did they have safe maternity hospitals? Was it more important to feed a pregnant woman than to punish her? A whole matrix of policies springing from liberal attitudes to give concrete support for childbirth and child-rearing made the difference between life and death. So I vote Liberal. I don't care what a politician gives lip-service to, I vote for those who actually save lives. And you save more babies with food stamps than with pieces of paper proclaiming laws that have always been easy to circumvent. Abortion has increased since the overturning of Roe V. Wade. Too many people think that changing the law has "solved" abortion, so now they don't have to worry about the effects of cutting mothers off from hope in ways that save themselves money or feeds their sense of moral superiority. But I don't want to go back to the days when every so often the highway patrol would find a dead pregnant girl in the snow.
Completely agree with you and you make a cogent argument. In addition, when Roe legalized abortion, that put and end to the horrors of "back room abortions" where many young women lost their lives and their ability to have children in the future. Overturning Roe will just bring that back. Making abortions illegal won't stop them, it will just make them much less safe for pregnant women. And the whole idea of prosecuting women for a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy is sheer lunacy. My mother had a miscarriage; my mother-in-law had an ectopic pregnancy. Both my mother and my mother-in-law had an "abortion" and they weren't called "murderers". They weren't charged with murder, they weren't sent to jail for life (if that had happened neither my husband or I would even be here--and some of you may thing my not being here would be a good thing). And to punish doctors with threats of prosecution for murder and taking away their right to practice medicine? Well, that has effects. I live in a red state with a very strict abortion ban (and no, it won't be on the ballot because our legislature and Supreme Court won't allow it be). OB/GYN physicians are leaving my state in droves. It's difficult to find an OB/GYN now and it's next to impossible to get an appointment even for things like a yearly pap smear--and the quality of the doctor, well, let's just say the "good" doctors aren't ones staying in the state to practice medicine. As one doctor put it, she said something to the effect that she didn't decide to practice medicine and go to medical school so she could stand idly by and watch her patient die when she had the skills and ability to prevent that death.
@@citoante An excellent point! And do you know what happens to countries that legalize heroin? Addiction drops. Seriously, it does. Portugal had a horrible addiction problem, until they stopped treating it like a legal problem and started treating it like a medical problem. Here's how that worked: 1. Addicts stopped having to go to criminals for their fixes, and went to doctors instead. The doctors were committed to helping them stop--they had dedicated their lives to making people well. In contrast, pushers didn't care about their customer's health and did everything to keep them addicted. More and more addicts got clean and sober. 2. Crime dropped dramatically. The addicts no longer had to pay enormous hazard pay costs for what they could get at slightly above cost of manufacture at a clinic. So they no longer had to steal. They could settle into simple jobs that anyone with half a functioning brain could do, and their lives stabilized. From that position, still more addicts got healthy and got off drugs. 3. Crime also dropped dramatically because pushers went out of business. When you're a businessman, and you can't call the police if a rival steals your inventory, you have to compete to be the meanest, scariest pusher in the neighborhood to fend them off. You have incentive to torture, rape and murder. (This was even true of 18h century tea smugglers!) 4. Addiction to legal drugs, like oxycontin and Xanax, also went down. Because now doctors had options to treat addicted patients besides abruptly cutting them off and turning them out on streets to look for some replacement. 5. New addicts became fewer and fewer. First because, before legalization, pushers would pressure their victims to introduce new people to heroin so they could expand their customer base. In fact, many addicts became pushers themselves to finance their own habits. Second, because pushers wanted to start people on drugs as young as possible, but nobody in the medical profession wants anyone to start on heroin. The addict population in Portugal--what remains of it--is aging out. Portugal is a much, much happier, safer, healthier place because they stopped jailing heroin addicts and started treating them instead. Thank you for bringing this up!
@@DoloresJNurss nice fairy tale. Maybe you should update your data. “Overdose rates have hit 12-year highs and almost doubled in Lisbon from 2019 to 2023. Sewage samples in Lisbon show cocaine and ketamine detection is now among the highest in Europe, with elevated weekend rates suggesting party-heavy usage. In Porto, the collection of drug-related debris from city streets surged 24 percent between 2021 and 2022, with this year on track to far outpace the last. Crime - including robbery in public spaces - spiked 14 percent from 2021 to 2022, a rise police blame partly on increased drug use.” You should read a Washington post article about it. Abortion, drugs, it’s all dirty business.
Pastor, thank you for telling your story and for being so candid. I just wish that pro-life folks would realize that being being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion.
BTW, why can't/didn't Repubs nominate a different pro life candidate than Rump? Someone who didn't share US political docs and info with foreign dictators and unfriendly leaders. Who doesn't have a myriad of sexual assault charges. A history of non payment to contractors for work. Can't Republicans nominate such an individual? It cannot be that difficult.
Unfortunately, though, it kind of does. Imagine if I told you that I personally don't believe that drunk driving is OK, but I believe that it should be legal because I'm "pro-choice" about drinking and driving. How is that any different than being pro-drunk-driving?
@@deantodd8103not really inappropriate comparison laws have gone too far. Doctors can't help a woman at risk of losing her life. In Texas they are considering saying if you travel out of Texas to get an abortion elsewhere you will be held on criminal charges even if it is to save your life. Has the anti-abortion movement become the pro mother death movement? Has it become the pro violence against women and children movement? Now victims of violent crime who become pregnant cannot obtain an abortion? Even children? I protested abortion with a Catholic group. But I never intended for these Draconian efforts to be made. The pro-life movement has become an anti-woman movement. Just NO!
God Made Government to be a denture in the world. With Governor s an rulers to protect people from evil people that's in the world also. People who won't listen or won't do the right thing in love an living as a Good citizen. Laws are passed by government s to protect Evil people from destroying the World from around everyone else.
I am a Christian. I am an American. Spiritually, I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe we should win over the hearts and minds of other people to be anti-abortion except when it is medically necessary. You can't be pro-life and ignore the health/medical needs of the mother. She is also a life. This is how I feel as a Christian. As an American, I believe in the separation of Church and State. The State cannot criminalize a medical procedure and say vaguely, except sometimes we may not prosecute woman, the doctor, the family / friends, but then again we might prosecute them and strip doctors of their license with fines and jail time and any friends or family who knew or suspected it. And most absurdly, seek the death penalty against a woman or doctor. Eye for an eye anybody? Plus when is ensoulment? By which religious standard if there is to be no establishment of a state( government) religion. Without codifying with guarantees of some personal saftey , in the law, what exactly is or is not when an abortion is warranted as a medical procedure, then radical rightwing legislatures have only opened a new can of worms . And they have. Because they cannot win all the hearts and minds, so instead they try to force their religion on others in a most unchristian, heartless, manipulative way. I just have a problem with mixing religion and politics. Especially, bad policy.
There has been studies that show abortions go down when we do things to help prevent problems to begin with. Ie help someone that cannot afford take care of a child. Assist with those with special needs instead of new model you can't have an abortion even in the case of rape ect but we are not going to help you either. In fact some states are even threatening to put people in jail. How does that solve anything?
My story is the mirror of yours, Pat. I was born at the end of 1963. I have a very strong memory of driving home with my mom (a public schoolteacher and a pastor's wife) from school. On the radio, we heard a news report that Roe had been decided. This was in 1973. My mom said "good," which caused me to ask what it was about. She told me about abortion, and I remember this as clearly as if she said it moments ago; she said: "I don't want a man telling me what to do with my body." Mom was a compassionate, caring Christian till the day she died, and I know she never needed nor had an abortion. But she was a strong woman, who always stood up for herself. I took her words to heart, and have always been pro-choice. We men need to step back from this one issue, and let women decide it. I know that's impossible, but I will defer to women to decide what to do with their bodies. The majority of women are pro-choice.
@@janedoe6704 According to Gallup, Pew, Forbes, and Vox polls (the first ones that came up in a Google search), more U.S. women are pro-choice by about 10 percentage points. This has been true for decades. Men bring those numbers down when added to the overall polling percentages. Most women want to be in control of their bodies.
@janedoe - According to all the polls I can see from a quick Google search (Pew, Gallup, Vox, etc) Women are pro choice by 10 percentage points. That number narrows when you add men to the mix. That's why I say men should stay out of this debate. Men never bear children, and always have the option to ignore their responsibilities as caregivers.
@@janedoe6704that is false. With a quick perusal of Gallup, the majority of Americans are pro-choice and if you look at a breakdown by gender, that's because the majority of women are pro-choice. The majority of MEN are pro-life.
Whenever I run into a single issue voter (anti abortion), I refer them to Proverbs 6:16-19, these scriptures include murder but list 6 other issues the Lord hates which single issue voters ignore. I make a chart listing the 7 abominations giving a line for each, then columns for each candidate and check off each (based on what I know or believe about the candidates). Last presidential election one candidate got all 7 and the other got one….so I voted for the person who got one check mark…Biden.
Thanks so much for the Bible passage in this context. Ultimately we can’t legislate morality. We live in a democracy. I don’t see how voting for the most immoral person on the ticket is helpful. He spews hatred. When he and the MAGAs are voted out, then we can be pickier with people who are more in line with Biblical values. None of what I hear from Trump or MAGA followers is remotely Christian-like. None of them will get my vote. I’ll be praying for the eyes of freedom loving Christians to see that voting for anyone on the other side of the ticket trumps voting for DJT.
I was a pro-life Republican until the pandemic. So I held my nose and voted for Trump but that’s when it ended. First I had to overcome the brainwashing that the pro-life police inflicted on me and that was catastrophic. And I struggled with this leading into the 2020 election. I realized that to be pro-life meant all life born and unborn. So when Trump ordered that all the poor mostly immigrant works go back into the meat packing factories with little or no protection that was it. And then the scales came off my eyes. I had been voting for the unborn and neglecting the born. We reject the democrats stance on health care because of the unborn and because it’s socialized medicine. But that’s not pro-life. Jesus speaks about the healthcare of the poor in two parables.1. Lazarus and the Rich-man. Lazarus has no healthcare except dogs licking his sores. While the rich-man has the essential oils and whatever helps the priest could offer. He’s steps over the sick and leaves him to his devises. Where did the rich man end up? Looking up from hell begging Christ to let him go warn his brothers. Then read Matthew 28. Christians denied this as socialized Christianity. It’s not! It’s Christ warning to how we will be judged when we vote against the poor. Finally, I came to realize that the unborn die either born dead or aborted end up in one place with Jesus. So I will continue to vote for the least of these until we figure out a way to care for the born.
Oh my God, its NOT socialism to demand healthcare for all! We pay taxes so the government can pay for services for our benefit. That is democracy. They are taxing us more and more, but where is all that money going? Its not going to anything that would help us to have a better quality of life. The services that help us get cut and we end up with next to nothing for being taxed, and THAT is taxation with NO representation and is what started the revolutionary war. They call it socialism so that people will not fight for a better life for themselves. It is mind control and manipulation, so we won't put up a fight while we are getting screwed over. That's fascism. This country is corrupt to the core and they have us fighting against each other and our own best interests with words like "woke" and "socialism" so we won't wake up and realise they are robbing us blind.
F. Scott Fitzgerald famously wrote: “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless yet be determined to make them otherwise.”
Crying really blessed by this! Thank you for caring and sharing. I’m a solo mom who is disabled with connective tissue disorder and TBI . This topic has really bothered me. Everyone who loves me wanted me to get an abortion so I’d survive. I survived and have life altering injuries . I know first hand if I didn’t have Jesus and support from real Christian’s I would have taken my life in pregnancy or postpartum. It is not easy, it is not safe it is not good for every woman to go through. God created free will, I believe He is pro choice. So did Billy Graham. Jesus wants us to educate the world not force it. Thank you and your wife for all you have done ❤️
You are so completely correct - God, or whatever Spiritual Leader you believe in, is definitely Pro Choice - that's probably why we use the term "free will". It is very disturbing to hear comments about Pro Life from folks and then you realize that they NEVER once use the word "Jesus". As you said, we are not hear to be "punished" for any wrong doings - we are hear to learn - forgiveness and tolerance and self-sacrifice are the things Jesus spoke of - the current Christian teachings have lost their way - completely.
Thanks for putting into words so much of what I believe too. Thanks for speaking truth in a loving way. Thanks for representing evangelical Christians so well.
As a Christian myself, and 2020 Trump supporter, I can relate to this message. I mistakenly viewed Trump as the lesser evil in part due to abortion, but I've come to realize that there's a scale of virtues and vices that we need to look at holistically. After the events of the 2020 election, I too consider Trump to be unacceptable, and believe that there may be enough swing voters out there who do fit this description. Hoping that there are more 'on the fence' people who finally realize that we can't only look at a single issue and throw our support behind an otherwise reprehensible person. I'm also fortunate to be in a church that doesn't view Trump as this 'chosen one', but I am saddened for those who attend MAGA churches.
Amen my brother, again you are explained your case very well. Unfortunately, some Christians love to say that “Christians shouldn’t vote Democrat” or “an individual is not a Christian if they vote Democrat.” As an American you have the right to vote for anyone you choose to and your faith is not dependent on who you vote for. May God continue to bless you!!
It's interesting because they're essentially saying our black and brown brothers and sisters are not Christians because they disagree with how they vote.
Tim Alberta touched on this subject and I respect him for it. With our religious convictions comes a blind spot for mankind to exploit for power or monetary gains . God gives us doctors, but some use faith to avoid it…
I deeply respect your viewpoints. Deeply. I just want to toss in my experience. I was 💯 pro-life until I had an ectopic pregnancy. The baby was alive in my tube, but unable to be saved. My tube burst at about 9 weeks pregnant. I almost bled to death. Fast forward to 2020 when my 15 week old fetus died in my womb, because of a hematoma. Without the DNC, I possibly could have had life long consequences or death. I have seen so many Republicans want to criminalize both of these procedures. Since the abortion restrictions went into place, more women have been in danger, have had life long complications, and even have died. So my views have changed from experience. Thank you for speaking up and speaking out. You restore faith in Christianity. I have a deep respect for you.
Love your talks. I agree with you about so much. Thank you so much for tackling this subject. It gives me such peace to know there are others out there not drinking the Koolaid.
The "right-to-life" movement has frequently seemed hypocritical to me in that the life of the unborn appears to be more important than the life of those who have already been born. Once a child has been born, they need food, clothing and care. All of which tend to not be supported by the very people who wanted the child to be born in the first place. Now, I'm not a fan of abortions, I think they should be rare, and reserved for saving the life of the mother. As such, I think all men should use protection to prevent unwanted pregnancies. But like any medical procedure, they should be safe and legal. Does life "begin" at conception? Aside from being an irrelevant question, no, at conception, life "continues." Is it sacred? Not yet. Does a fetus have a soul? Not yet. It is an animal. Does it even have a personality? Not so far as we can tell. And miscarriages are a fact of nature. We do know abortions are messy and a distasteful business, (not counting those caused by drugs). It would be very nice if most doctors didn't need to do any. Does "pro-choice" mean "anti-life"? Of course not! It means that fetuses are not individuals until they individuate - are born. Prior to that, they are a part of the mother. (Even after birth, according to psychologists, babies think they are still part of the mother. It takes a while for them to function on their own.) And mothers are people. They are given freewill by God, and no one should have the power to take that away from anybody. Women must be allowed to make their own choices regarding their own bodies. There are things we can do to make the choice of keeping the baby more attractive, e.g., great prenatal care etc. But ultimately, the decision rests with them. The Bible is not anti-abortion. It even proscribes how to do one. It was the Vatican, in 1975 that decided to make abortion a political wedge issue, in part, to undermine the separation of church (them) and state. And they recruited the GOP and the Evangelicals to champion their cause. From a book titled Confronting Church and State: Memoirs of an Activist, by Rev John M. Swomley, we get this: In order to put Vatican directives into U.S. law, the Catholic bishops on November 20, 1975, issued their Pastoral Plan for Pro-Life Activities. It was clearly a political document. The Plan stated, “It is absolutely necessary to encourage the development in each congressional district of an identifiable, tightly knit and well-organized pro-life unit.” The Bishops also decided to “urge appointment of judges” who would take the Vatican position on abortion. The Plan listed specific directives for dealing with members of Congress and for the legislative committees, such as “Contact members of the House Judiciary Subcommittee and get a commitment from each member.” It also had a plan for Catholic high school seniors, for initiating contact with non-Catholic churches and scholars. In short, The Catholic bishops have had a strategy since 1975 to persuade everyone to accept Papal decrees.
Bible is anti abortion. Sacrificing children to moloch is OT abortion. It’s just that modern technology enables you to philosophize about life. Before abortions, unwanted children were just killed. The point when this human being becomes a “person” is completely arbitrary and if you didn’t have abortion technology you would argue for baby murder. Other than that, it’s not like Trump will stop abortions, although I am convinced that in the future you won’t be able to find a doctor that will do it.
Which is a long-winded way of saying, all the folks actively involved with the “pro-life” camp, are all unwitting shills for Vatican Rule. They’re ‘the man behind the curtain’.
Totally agree with you. Trying to figure out if he is the Anti Christ in revelation, but what ever he is, he is evil. And it does surprise me how people don't see this.
Very helpful for me as someone who voted 3rd party the last to two Presidential elections. Trying to decide if Biden's aggressive pro-choice and pro-LGBT policies can be stomached. But if Trump is the threat to democracy he seems to be ... Thanks for your story.
This is how a politician ought to be thinking, with some power in political issues yet giving back the same power to the individual at the end of the day.
I'm an 80 year old woman and one who has spent 20 years living and working in 30 traditional cultures. 1. the 'sanctity of life' is one of the most hypocritical phrase. Have Humans taken care of the Waters, Airs, Soils, Species that give us 'life'? No! In fact, the christian bible says that 'man has dominion over life' ... The christian bible does not say: 'man has a caring responsibility to all the Waters, Airs, Soils, Species and One Another'. 2. Now, let's get to Women, pregnancy, birth, babies, and Life. Every Woman gives up her Life to carry, birth, and raise a child! Every Woman gives up her Life to do that whether she wants a child or not. Deeply understand this. Every Woman gives up her Life to bring forward another Life ... whether she likes doing that or not. 3. In every culture in the World over Time and Place, Women have been desperate to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, terminate one, and even abandon or kill their newborn. Every culture! 4. Every culture around the world, until Immunization and antibiotic, expected to lose 20-30% of children under the age of 5. Childrens' lives were fragile. In many cultures children are not named until they thrive. Do you understand what that means to the Women who give up their lives to carry, birth, and then lose 20-30% of their children? 5. Every Woman who gives up her Life to carry, birth, and raise a child wants her child to outlive her. Women know they are preventing a pregnancy or killing a baby via termination. Women DO NOT distinguish how our babies are killed ... by ourselves or by circumstances/other: drugs, abuse, poverty, wars, suicides, guns, natural disasters, disease, accidents and others. There is ZERO 'sanctity of Life' if you do not understand this. Life is not an unborn child. Life is everything on this Planet! And Life and Death are part of Everything. 6. When Women can have reproductive and sexual 'choice', they have Reproductive and Sexual Equality. 7. There is zero effort to require every male to have a vasectomy after the age of 14/16! 8. There is ZERO effort to stop the wars, and clean up our Airs, Waters, And Soils and protect the Oceans, Sky, Land, and ALL Species. 9. The Pro-Life Movement is a sham. It's Anti-Earth and Anti-Woman and Anti-Child. It is a conservative, radical religious oppression of those 3 things while giving 'man dominion over ...'
I started a discussion about abortion on X, formerly known as Twitter, but the only participant had only one stock answer which was about killing babies. There was no way to have a conversation with him because all he would reply was, « you want to kill babies, » so I put an end to it. I felt as though he was trying to manipulate me and lay a guilt trip on me for saying that the issue is a lot more complex than he thought, and that’s abhorrent to me.
I find it interesting that the response to your discussion seems to be a "he". 77% of "pro-lifers" are men and most of that is white, no doubt, but I do not have a statistic on that. I want abortion to be rare, preventable and safe. I had been, 2 decades ago, under the impression that most people who got abortions did so as a form of birth control. Those abortions are preventable thru education and contraception, but the Repubes want to ban contraception, so they are really about controlling women. My mom was a pediatrician and is a Christian. My mom obviously wants to protect life. And she is the one who changed my mind about abortion. Yes, some abortions are "birth control," but there is soooooooooo much more to the subject! There's of course rape and incest. And young women, like a teenager, is actually more likely to have complications, so that is something to consider. Then, what solidified my feelings about being pro-choice is when something goes wrong in the pregnancy and the baby isn't viable and the life of the mother is at risk. But mostly, it's about choice. A lot of women, if not most, will choose to have the baby. It's the fact that she has the choice to get the health care she needs is important. Because Repubes also want to take away our health care. Taking away choices makes people more desperate. Also, let's consider just some of the consequences of abortion bans: 1. Women will complete suicide. 2. The foster care/adoption system will be overwhelmed. On top of the fact they are already overwhelmed. 3. Women will feel they need to stay in abusive relationships 4. Abuse of children will increase 5. Infanticide will increase 6. Women will die during pregnancy because they won't be able to get the necessary care they need. Examples: ectopic pregnancy, something goes horribly wrong in the pregnancy etc 7. Infant death that is not Infanticide will increase. For example, since Texas put in their almost complete abortion ban, infant deaths have increased 11%. And there are other consequences I prolly haven't considered. These are just consequences I came up with off the top of my head. One could argue rape could increase. If women are seen as "less than" or "man's property", more violence will be aimed toward them. I don't think the anti-choicers consider these bigger consequences. And we're seeing them trying to take away other choices. They want to take away the right for parents to make decisions for their transchild. They want to take away our choices in what we read. Some states are trying to take away our choice to travel! It's in an attempt to prevent pregnant women from getting an abortion, but the consequence is that women in Texas, for example, aren't able to get an Uber to go to a doctor's appointment. I truly don't think pro-choice is about wanting to "kill babies". It's truly about choice. I also don't think "pro-lifers" are about life because there's so much they ignore that would sustain life.
Again, thank you for your thoughtfulness. I had a long discussion, some years back, with friends from our congregation who were surprised to learn I was voting for a "pro-choice" candidate. They really wanted to understand, which is unusual. I basically said I was not going to decide on that one issue. I appreciate your articulating why that is sensible to you.
Hello Pat, I'm sorry that I can't send this to you individually. I'm sorry if you receive resistance as a result.. I am so encouraged by your thoughtful, balanced approach to the topics you are addressing. THANK YOU!!! I am an evangelical PCUSA pastor, and I have have wrestled with the same, that you faithfully articulate so well. One thing that has helped me in the issues you present in # 4 was the realization that in the much older and in some ways important to recognize Jewish faith; a child's life is real when the first BREATH occurs! ( i know you recognize the similarities. It's worth meditating on this) That insight was so helpful for me even as I am not offering it to you in any effort to convince you. I guess what I want to underline, is that I appreciate what you are doing , in such a gracious, truthful , faithful, and necessary way. The peace of Christ, and the grace of the Holy Spirit be with you!
I heard Bart Ehrman answering the question about what would Jesus say about abortion. He said the Jewish perspective was life began at birth and as a devout Jew, he would have believed the same.
You do such a great job explaining your thought process in arriving where you are today and these videos really are great for setting up where you are heading!
(Pro-choice here.) OF COURSE life is important but OTHER THINGS are too! A woman's life and health and her doctor's advice. Religious ideas have too often put women as second class citizens. More than one half of human beings! We have a right to decide what our bodies do.
Don't let DT off the hook by using the term "pro-life." He could care less about morality. He is "anti-abortion." Even then, he is cunning enough to know that a ban on abortion is bad for his chances in 2024.
I appreciate hearing your story, Pat. I am pro-choice, in part because my religion (Judaism) is much less absolute about the status of a fetus than much of Christianity is. Essentially, the full human right to life begins at birth, and the genuine needs of a woman take precedence over the needs of the fetus. Many Christians don't realize that prohibiting abortion across the board can also be a violation of freedom of religion. But I have great respect for the thoughtful way you approach this issue.
What an incredibly nuanced and helpful look at an issue that seems dominated by hot takes and power grabs. Wherever someone lands on the spectrum, there's a lot of food for thought here. Deeply needed and much appreciated.
Thank you - I felt it was important to share it in this series, just so people know where I'm coming from. I'm guessing there are aspects to it that everyone might disagree with, and aspects that a lot of people might agree with. But in the end, I think it's important for people to hear other people talk through their process of deciding some of these hard things.
Thank you for opening up about your journey, Pat. I hope your willingness to explain your views, and the reasoning behind them, will help to further some positive conversation on this issue.
Early input (only 2 minutes in, but I got to write this while I remember the wording): Voting for Donald Trump using the argument hat he's pro life, is like setting your house on fire because you like beautiful red fire trucks. People need to consider the entire package, not just that "pro life thing"
The world started being slowly turned upside down in 2016, and any true Christian has to stop and think instead of just going along because they agree with a policy, or what they hear at a surface level. It can be easy to miss the big picture, like not seeing the forest for the trees. If you follow Jesus, he was an extremely wise man with deep thinking, not someone who would go along with anything that sounds good (if Trump even sounds good these days after everything we know). We must follow our deeper wisdom and deeper thinking within us, it is different from the surface of the mind.
When they passed the anti abortion laws I discovered that some states do not even allow a procedure done - I forgot the medical term but I had a co worker that had to have this done basically they discover the fetus is dead and have to remove it. 1 it poses a threat to the mother because they can become infected and it is very difficult and dangerous to deliver it. I was astounded when I heard that he was not allowed to do those procedures because it was considered "abortion" That is is extreme.
Mr. You speak for me and you make a lot of sense! When it comes to moral n ethical laws, the Lord will be the One to punish those He calls sins and disobedience.
Thank you for making these videos. Especially this one. I am similar to you in that I've always been pro-life and I used to vote primarily Republican. But no more. I'm glad that you're making your case from the faith basis that Christians can relate to. I've shared a couple of these on social media. I think it fills a very much needed bridge in this crazy political atmosphere.
Thank you for this. I am pro-choice, but I'm willing to say life begins at conception. The truth of the matter is, however, that the pregnant woman is also alive and that what the pro-life legal position is doing reduces the pregnant woman legally to being a life support machine even though doing so is risking her own life and health. Rates of death for women are increased when they are pregnant for a wide variety of reasons, some of them not strictly medical (for example, pregnant women are more likely to be murdered by their partner). In no other situation are we required to allow our bodies to be used this way. And once you are pregnant, so much of what you do affects the life within that you're going to be legally responsible for how well you dedicate yourself to being the life support machine. What medicines we take, what jobs we can do, what we eat and drink, and a wide variety of other things are all things we become liable for as abuse in a situation where we cannot put the life within into someone else's care. I had easy, wanted, pregnancies, and I cannot see forcing someone to continue a pregnancy as anything other than a violation of their bodily autonomy -- it affects everything. Pregnancy, even good, easy pregnancy and birth, affects your body for the rest of your life. I can't force you to give up your kidney to protect someone who would die without it. I can't even force you to donate blood, which is far less invasive, to save someone's life. I see pregnancy in a similar light.
If you are truly pro life you would vote for: sex ed, snap benefits, Medicare for all, higher minimum wage, etc. Those are policies that make life better for people, you know, feed the poor, etc. What Jesus taught.
Dr's and hospitals have become fearful of dealing with pregnant women who have any difficulty and either turn them away until near death or quit offering obstetrical care at all. Why would a young woman here want to get pregnant when they will risk being abandoned medically? In my entire 70 years in the US has it been so dangerous for women and the unborn, even before Roe there were safety measures allowed. Now most drs won't take those safety measures.
I have a parent that has severe BPD with tendencies for anti-social and sadistic behavior. And very low conscienceness and empathy, and no remorse. Or a sociopath with the same tendencies. I see all that in Trump. She also uses superficial charm like Trump to con. His language is the same template they all with similar personalities use to cause harm and intimidation. To him speaking his language is important to getting his way. It dawned on me that he only hears those who use the same tactics. During my own healing of extreme parental abuse, my own pain and anger and having a mother who only ever cares about money, power and absolute control of everyone in her family to the point of extreme abuse just as Trump does. She never has taken any accountability just as Trump. Maybe you can imagine how I have been formally diagnosed with COMPLEX -PTSD three times in 14 years. A popular diagnosis for those who has had to endure severe mental cruelty by the very hands God made to nurture and build up.I missed out on my own childhood. If a human can consume another that's how I describe what my mom does to me. It was almost easier for me to use my trauma response by freely letting go in words on Trump. Knowing his ways. As he too has the same abusive criminal mind. Only he's doing it to those who do not agree with him and see through him. Listening to you in these videos. You articulated our nations polartity with compassion and illustrated a realistic way going forward in this crazy time in our nation. You a true lover of Christ Jesus. Elequently. Thank you.
I’m a Christian and also pro-choice, for many reasons. I could never choose to have an abortion, but I have also never been poor, pregnant, alone and afraid, or the victim of rape or incest, or carrying a pregnancy that put my life at risk. How can I judge these women? I also base my belief about life on my faith, but many people in America don’t share that faith. They have a right to their beliefs also. Don’t we all have freedom of religion? I’m also a social worker, and due to my professional experience I don’t believe outlawing abortion will decrease abortions. Women choose abortion because they feel they have no other choice. Why aren’t pro-lifers spending time & money increasing services and resources for pregnant women? I also find pro-lifers to be inconsistent. Why are they also pro-gun and anti universal healthcare ? Wouldn’t gun control laws increase life? Wouldn’t universal healthcare increase life? You can’t just be pro-unborn life. I feel the Republican party has just used this issue to work up the emotions of their followers and get them out to vote, not because they actually care about life.
I’m going to put this question to you, one that I never hear anyone address on this subject. Why doesn’t anyone speak about birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies? Even abstinence is an option, and I’m not Catholic. I know in other countries they use abortion as their main method or only method of birth control. It would sure stop a lot of unwanted pregnancies if men and women were more mindful about prevention, I believe.
I agree with you. But, Pat did briefly mention birth control. I can't remember how he put it, but he said some methods don't prevent pregnancy. I think he meant that some birth-control methods are actually abortion done at a very early stage. For example, a drug that prevents the zygote from attaching to the wall of the uterus.
As a perinatal nurse, I can tell you that birth control fails, even when used correctly. There are also situations where the pregnancy was wanted and planned for, but something went wrong and now the pregnancy must be terminated for the mother's life and health. A lack of timely abortions causes infections, scarring in the uterus and fallopian tubes, including Asherman's syndrome, and suddenly a woman who wanted to be a mom has lost both her child and her fertility. That's not pro-life, that's cruelty.
@@carmelcameron1889Most birth control prevents ovulation altogether. That's why it can take time to get pregnant when coming off of it, the body needs time to regulate the natural cycle. Preventing a fertilized egg from implanting isn't abortion, and this happens naturally all the time (chemical pregnancy).
@@LulaMae21 I understand there are rare cases that can save a mother’s life. And I know birth control doesn’t always work. But when you speak of cruelty I remember the documentary I watch that shows the most commonly used methods of abortion, now that’s cruelty!! It absolutely brutal torture for the unborn. have you watched it? It’s on TH-cam, The Silent Scream. From what I understand there are actually few doctors willing to perform an abortion because they know what is involved. Being a prenatal nurse you should know how very early a fetus developed the ability to feel pain. It’s a horrific process for both the unborn and for the mother. I know many women who’ve regretted having an abortion when they were teenagers, now that they’ve grown up to have children and even grandchildren of their own to love with everything in them. If they could go back they would have never made that choice.
@@LulaMae21 I hope you haven't concluded that Pat (or even I) came out against birth control. I'm just saying that he mentioned it and said Pro-life people have to consider the issues around IVF and "certain forms of birth control" which I assumed meant the kind that destroys a zygote. My assumption. I didn't mean to put words in Pat's mouth.
I appreciate that you are clear about you thoughts and feelings surrounding abortion. And I respect that you do consider the rights of a woman as being highly important. I hope to be as clear and thoughtful. For me, the single thought that leads to my conclusion to be pro-choice is this: Some women will die due to being pregnant. That is an unavoidable truth. The statistics on maternal mortality have been trending the wrong direction in the United States and some other Western countries in recent decades. Also, the maternal mortality rates show large disparities based on race, ethnicity, and income level. I have then failed to find any situation where a man can be held legally liable for refusing to risk his own life to aid another person. In fact, my understanding is that a person is never legally required to risk significant injury to assist a person in distress. I then can't justify legally requiring women to risk their health, let alone their lives, to try to carry a pregnancy to term. I would come to the same conclusion whether or not I viewed the human life developing in the womb to be a person in the same way that I consider all of us to be persons. That I do not view an embryo, fetus, or other stage of development to grant full personhood, only makes it more clear to me that placing that requirement on women is a violation of their equal rights as human beings, relative to any man. I think it is also instructive to consider the inevitable result if abortion was removed as an safe and legal option for all women in the U.S. With approximately 1,000,000 abortions being performed annually, it would mean 1 million women carrying pregnancies to term if none of them could choose to terminate their pregnancies. The maternal mortality rate is around 20 deaths per 100,000 live births in this country. All of those 1 million women not having abortions would mean up to 200 would be expected to die that would not have had they been able to choose abortion. (It would be very likely to be less than that, as some pregnancies result in miscarriage and would not factor in to the maternal mortality statistics, plus some women would find ways to obtain abortions illegally or by traveling to another country.) Thus, it isn't an abstract idea that a woman's rights are being subjugated to those of the unborn child (to use the term preferred by pro-life advocates). Nor is it that they have to face physical burdens that they otherwise could avoid. It is that their very lives are being put at risk, and that women would die that would have lived if abortion was not an option. I hope I have been clear, and I hope that this adds positively to our understanding of each other's positions. Thank you.
I am a Bernie's girl, and I do not believe in abortions for me. Then again, Who am I, nor anyone, to tell women and my daughters what their faith should be, at their most painful, heart breaking and confidential time of their lives!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your history with the movement. I wish I had seen this video before I saw your other one, because you do actually hold a lot of opinions that I find admirable in someone that is pro-life in their personal life. Well I'm not a believer, but I have people that I love and care for who are very faithful. And they try to live their faith, and I admire that. I see how much it hurts them that the maga movement has so severely damaged the witness. They don't deserve that. Jesus doesn't deserve that.
I was sceptical are you talking on this subject. I will say that I am Canadian and abortion is legal across Canada and is protected under the Health Act. Abortion is off the table politically speaking. In Canada it is up to the individual to decide what is their moral compass on this subject. I understand that you and so many more believe a human life begins at conception. This is your right. I don’t believe that, I believe when a baby is born they become an individual, this is my right. When we live in a democracy where the majority believe abortion should be legal it would be difficult to accept for many. Woman shouldn’t be forced to carry to full term. I personally feel for women who are shamed for making a choice to end a pregnancy. I know several women who have had abortion who did not make that decision lightly. I can now see how this issue has become so political in the states and hope it does trickle up here. I respect your point of view and your own convictions.
27 "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. RED LETTERS (John 14:27 ESV) Grace and peace to you! PR JESUS 2024
Off topic. On August 11, 2020 Trump says if re-elected he will terminate Social Security. In the 2024 Time magazine interview Trump said if he’s re-elected he will make permanent stopping the payroll tax . The payroll tax is the FICA tax that funds Social Security and Medicare. In 2020 a Social Security actuary said if the FICA tax is no longer collected Social Security would end within 3 years. Not to mention what would happen to Medicare.
I grew up in a Democratic household and became politically aware during the Clinton years. There were a plenty of bad things that could be said about Clinton but I could see that his policies were more closely aligned with my beliefs in equality and equity than the Republicans who were clearly more focused on denying people rights to vote, to have a social safety net, to believe in anything other than their flavor of Christianity, and anything else to control the levers of power. But one of the biggest things I learned was the hypocrisy of their anti-abortion stance. If they had truly been about the sanctity of life, they would've been for easier access to birth control, age-appropriate sex education, and social programs to lift people out of poverty, as Democrats are, which has been shown to decrease the abortion rate. Abortion rates have always gone up under supposedly pro-life Republicans. They only reduce SAFE abortions with their policies.
It is ironic that Republicans don't want women to have a choice regarding abortion, but the Democrats didn't want all of America to have a choice to refuse the Covid19 vaccines that never did prevent infection or transmission. I am a retired nurse. I am a Christian. I am not anti-science, but I will always defend the right to privacy and the right to choose or refuse medical intervention based on informed consent.
You touched on what bothers me most. I'm agnostic, but the damage he has caused to close, loving relationships over politics is what gets me over and over. The anger and rhetoric is the furthest things from Christian that I can imagine. As a Dem w so many Trump supporter BFF's, I have made it my mission not to allow him to cause that kind of strife. I've only lost 1 person thru these last years + he was being very nasty. I also hate that so many dems think that Trump supporters are racist, xenophobes, anti-LGBTQ+, etc etc etc. I know they're not which makes this all so sad + frustrating!
My question would be how can people be Christian and believe that being Christian is the ONLY religion and that you have to push those beliefs on everyone in our country? I’m a Christian, I’ve been Catholic, and now non- denominational. I don’t believe it’s healthy for me or others to push my beliefs, or them their beliefs or convictions on anyone else. We all have free will and if you truly believe God is the judge of our behaviors/actions then you don’t have to worry about judging anyone else for their actions. God will do it someday. My decision what to do with my body has no direct affect on you. None whatsoever. You don’t want an abortion? Then don’t have one. And then you’ve stuck to your beliefs. But don’t turn back time and put women’s health at risk to push your agenda thinking you’re God. Not your job.
I am an apprentice statistician, who is baffled by Christians who believe that the souls of the innocent aborted-unborn go directly to heaven, and who also believe that relatively few, if allowed to be born, will ultimately be saved and go to heaven. I asked a Christian friend, recently, how many of the general population will be saved and go to heaven. He held up his thumb and forefinger, showing a tiny gap, and said “the bible says, very few!”. To me, it is an obvious and practical set of numbers questions: if there’s something that I can do to ensure 100% of a population goes to heaven, why wouldn’t I do that? If I interfere and force children to be born, many of them into difficult life situations and a low likelihood of going into heaven… why WOULD I do that? That’s not a trick question! As I said, I’m baffled and wondering why I haven’t seen this concept more openly discussed.
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I'm almost 75 years old and well remember what life was like for women before Roe. It was not illegal for a husband to rape his wife. A woman could not have a checking account, own real property, take out a loan, have a credit card unless her husband or father was the holder of the account. I was turned down for good jobs because I was of "child-bearing age." I wasn't a Christian when I got pregnant out of "wed-lock" but knew that there was a life in me that I didn't have the right to harm. My beautiful daughter will be 55 next month! So, I guess I'd say that, as far as a secular government is concerned, I'm pro-choice - as uncomfortable as I am with these politicized terms. I do not believe, neither do I find any authority in Scripture, to support Christians' demand that secular law control morality at this level. I love the Lord and pray for all those who are faced with this pain. And for all the woman and girls who are forced by their secular government to carry a dead child, to face hemorrhage, to die because the government said that they must. I don't doubt that these words will draw criticism. So be it.
I'm an older Christian woman too and I agree with everything you said! C
@@tgriffin3059 rape is forced sex - an act of violence - and a husband absolutely can, and too often does, rape his wife. (I'm a retired attorney - I've seen it!) A wife is not the property of her husband. What's the point? A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her. Ephesians 5:25, not to use her for his pleasure whether or not she is willing.
@@tgriffin3059 Are you serious? So in a husband/wife relationship, you say the women has no right to consent? The point is women should have the same rights inside marrriage as they have outside of it. It simply shocks me that people like you, with medieval moral values still exist today.
@@tgriffin3059 A real man treats his wife with respect and as an equal.
When a man considers his wife to be his property, and treats her like a second-class citizen, that's not a marriage, it's a master-slave relationship. Jesus treated women as equals. All men should too.
I would say that I am pro-life. But that does not mean I am anti-abortion for all the same reasons that you state. I am rather dismayed that no matter how thoughtful and sincere Pat is, on so many issues, he quite literally does not seem to grasp what a 100% pro-life stance means to so many people. Overturning Roe is simply pandering to a bunch of holier than thou religious thugs so that they can smugly say how morally upstanding they are over the rest of us. This doesn't apply to all pro life Christians of course, but I believe it applies to a lot of the far right Trump loving ones.
Just like you, Pat Kahnke, I could not vote for Trump or Clinton in 2016 for the same reasons. If I could go back, I would vote for Clinton. I have been (and am) a Christian most of my life. I have been (and am) pro-life all my life. I am no longer anti-abortion. That ended when Roe vs. Wade was overturned. Why? Because dead pregnant mothers do not give birth to live babies. 10 year old girls are not physically mature enough to have babies. Women who have miscarriages should never face interrogation about their loss. Women should never have to carry an unviable pregnancy that risks their fertility and/or life. Tubal pregnancies need to be terminated immediately, not wait for a court to decide. No rape or incest victim should have to prove they were victimized. Doctors shouldn't have to risk prosecution in order to save the life of their patient.
i agree. this is strictly a woman's issue that does not affect men in any way. All we hear is ban abortions, but we don't hear let's ban men that do not use birth control, men that refuse to have a vasectomy, men who sexually abuse women and teen girls, men that buy pornography, men that are buying and selling in the sex trafficking industry that brings in more money than heroin sales in the USA.
back in 1987, I woke up one morning hemorrhaging and in labor pain. I had a 4 month old baby prior to this incident. I called my mother who drove me to the ER. My doctor met us there. He said I was having a miscarriage and I needed an immediate emergency therapeutic abortion. Fortunately I was competent and could sign my own consent papers. My husband was brainwashed by a fundamentalist religion that believed all abortions were a sin. It's a good thing he didn't make it to the hospital until i was already in the OR. If he had heard my dr. using the word therapeutic abortion, he would have showed himself at the hospital for everybody to see. I really believe my husband would have let me bleed to death before he'd get off his high horse he's been riding all his life. I've heard my own minister say that "if you are riding a high judgmental horse, you better be riding the saddle of impeccable righteousness."
I am in my early 40s and am staunchly pro-choice (and vehemently anti-Trump), but I find it interesting to listen to some of your videos.
I grew up in a Christian household where it was taken for granted that being Christian means being Republican. To the point where my mother voted for Trump even though she couldn’t stand him.
I remember as a kid the first time I really started doubting some of what I was raised to believe. I was in a car with my older sister driving, so I am guessing I was around 10 years old. Rush Limbaugh came on the radio and said some pretty ugly stuff. I told my sister I didn’t like that man at all, he seemed like a bad guy. She was shocked and told me “but he’s a Christian. He’s on our side!” That stunned me. I was so shocked to hear this man was a Christian. And that planted some seeds of doubt that stayed with me into adulthood.
They matured during the Obama years when the people around me said terrible things about Obama, but when I asked what made him such an evil guy, they couldn’t answer me. I began to understand exactly how Christian beliefs were being used to manipulate them into voting for people with bad intentions and hating people who weren’t perfect, but certainly not evil. I realized being a single issue or Christian issues voter was a fatal flaw, because that leaves us all sitting ducks for the worst of humanity. All they had to do was say the right things, claim to support select issues that required them to actually do nothing good, and Christians would line up behind them like good little sheep and vote for them no matter what else they did. It was a horrifying realization.
Ever since, my beliefs have continued to evolve. I have had to take my hard looks at myself and what I believed, and it was uncomfortable to say the least. You don’t want to see yourself as foolish as ignorant, but if you can’t see yourself as you actually are, then you have no hope of improving and being the person you want to be.
Eyes, heart and mind open to the truth.
The absolute best explanation of being raised with certain reliefs, realizing the lack of substance for those beliefs, and having the awareness and insightfulness to make corrections that are appropriate to who you are and not fall under someone else’s blindness.
I'm right there with you! Amen!
Well said! Why is it so difficult for people to see the difference between living your faith as a Christian and just claiming you are for your own selfish lust for power and riches? Jesus told us we would be able to tell who they were and what they stood for by the fruit they would bear. How are they able to ignore all the evil and stay focused on the one issue they have no right to decide for everyone? They are trying to play God. Its arrogance and great folly, and will cause much more evil than they are trying to prevent.
Can’t tell you how much I LOVE to hear you speak and explain this very difficult subject. I became a believer when I was 18 years old, right in the middle of deciding whether to have an abortion after finding out I was pregnant. I was 18, just graduated high school, unmarried and had been experimenting with recreational drugs and alcohol. I couldn’t imagine that it was right timing for me to bear a child, so I decided to have an abortion. I struggled to feel a sense of forgiveness for years afterwards, but one day way down the road, I was holding and rocking my newborn baby and it hit me that God wasn’t punishing me, he was rewarding me with new life. If he could forgive and bless, then I needed to forgive myself and move I to a healthy mental space about the abortion I had. I was part of a very pro life church but I never felt safe to talk about my abortion. It wasn’t until after my last baby was born and we were attending a different church that I heard a friend talk about her abortion, and I was able to share my story. Through tears, I felt a sense of healing. I am still pro life, but I’m also pro woman, and because I believe Donald Trump is a wicked man, I will not vote for him, even though it’s who most pro life people will vote for. It may be their defining issue but it’s not mine anymore. By the way, I e been married to the same man for 42 years and successfully birthed and raised 9 beautiful children to adulthood. God is good, better than we will ever know in this life.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
It is so good to hear a conservative talk about being against capital punishment and in favor of gun control. You show great wisdom and humility in your approach to these very difficult issues.
You are a wise man and I love how carefully thought out your positions are AND that you’re willing to change your mind as your grow and more of the nuances come to light. I voted for Trump in 2016 for the very same reasons you pointed out. Never again!! That was a huge mistake we Christian’s made based on that one issue. Thank you for explaining your perspective because it helps me to vote against Trump no matter what until this MAGA movement is defeated and goes away.
There is a difference between an anti-abortionist and a pro-life person. An anti-abortionist wants to make abortion illegal, period. A pro-life person seeks to better the lives of all people. A pro-life person tends to support a universal healthcare system, unemployment insurance and welfare. A pro-life person also tends to support paid sick days, paid maternity leave, affordable daycare services, affordable long-term care, old age security pensions....A pro-life person is against any form of abuse and the death penalty. As far as I'm concerned, if a society establishes healthy and robust social safety nets, it will reduce the need for abortions; it would not eliminate the need completely since medical emergencies are not always preventable. I truly believe that legally banning abortions is an irresponsible way of dealing with a complex issue that is pregnancy.
I'm Catholic, pro-life, anti-trump and a retired OB/maternal/child health RN of 50+ years. I agree wholeheartedly with you. During my working years in a Catholic hospital OB department, I cared for women in varying trimesters of pregnancy. I recall a mother at 20 weeks gestation whose bag of waters ruptured. Her OB admitted her to labor and delivery. A 20 week old unborn baby was and is unable to survive if birthed. Premature ruptured bag of waters is a maternal life threatening complication. There was no question about what had to happen: mom had symptoms of infection, blood test results confirmed infection. Her OB first spoke with his patient, her husband and other family members, explaining her infection, and need to induce labor to prevent worsening infection despite antibiotics, an infection leading to probable hysterectomy, and a risk of her death. Of course, he acknowledged the sadness that her baby couldn't survive at 20 weeks of pregnancy if born. Patient gave her consent to proceed with labor induction after risks and benefits of that process were explained. Her doctor spoke about 30 minutes on the phone, consulting with the OB chief, chief of all medical staff, administrator, and spiritual services director, explaining the case and plan for labor induction and delivery of the baby. I was her nurse during labor and delivery. I cared for her, following the protocols for induction. I did my very best to do so in a caring, compassionate, and respectful way. When her tiny baby was born, he lived for only a few minutes, during which time he was held by his mama, and for quite some time after. This was not an abortion. This was not murdering a baby. This was a necessary medical decision made to save a mother's life with her informed consent. Had she not given her consent, she would've still been given all necessary medications, had many blood tests to monitor the infection, and continuously monitored for worsening symptoms. At some point, labor would've started on it's own, and her baby born. However, in all likelihood, by that time, she would've been very ill, with infection throughout her body, possibly close to death. The restrictive abortion laws in red states will cause mor maternal and infant deaths. My anger at so-called "pro-life" politicians in red states passing horribly restrictive abortion laws is greatest each time I read a story of a pregnant woman suffering with a miscarriage, tubal pregnancy or other complication, living in those states. Apologies for the long comment.
One should also note that one of the biggest differences between the current front runners is this: Democrats tend to vote for policy issues, not a person; on the other hand, one does not vote anymore for conservative values, but for one single individual, Donald Trump. This is because Trump has no moral center, much less policy positions (one person who worked for him says he generally goes with the decision of the last person he talked to!). He is for whatever he believes will benefit him personally, and at the moment, evangelicals provide him with the support he needs to stay ahead; but make no mistake, my evangelical friends: You are simply _useful tools._ He will turn on you in a heartbeat if you stray from the path. Choose Christ (for once) over him, and you will find yourself in the proverbial arena facing some very hungry lions.
Very well said!
I agree.
A strange conclusion considering the topic of this video. Many vote for Trump while holding their noses, e.g. not the person, because his policies were supportive of a Pro-Life position. You can try to dismiss that by saying that Trump holds that position for political expediency, but that doesn't change the fact that the voter who voted on policy not the person achieved their policy goal. As far as the rest, I agree Trump isn't to be trusted, but it doesn't follow that the alternative is to be trusted. They've already turned against Christian values, and have proven they are no friends to Christians or Christian values.
Does anyone at all seriously think Donald Trump has ever given so much as a passing thought any deeper than what will serve his immediate needs on this issue? If so, I have a bridge to sell.
You have a lot to learn friend. First, if you are a Christian, you would know things will get much , much worse. It doesn’t matter who is elected. What is meant to happen, will happen. Until it does , do your best to make the world a better place. Over half your country men see great things in Trump. Witnessed kindness and sincerity. Love everyone both conservative and liberals.
And I have some ocean-front property on Mars. I'm willing to let it go real cheap--it's a sacrifice, but for the gullible, I'll make the sacrifice.
@@boardtodeath46 Could you cite any of this kindness and sincerity?
@@janhankins911 How much money have you given Trump?
The bridge is still available.
@@deepashtray5605 good morning. Yes there are many instances where Trump was kind, generous, and thoughtful. But if your mind is made up about him, and you if you only listen to msmn . It won’t help if I share the stories. You can start by looking into the homeless lady he let stay in one of his hotels for free for years, or he recently paid off the mortgage of a widow who’s husband dies in the line of duty
I was born in 1955, and I remember the world before Roe V Wade, and why I oppose abortion but don't see laws against it as preventing a dang thing. I'm going to talk about that world, how Roe V. Wade changed it, and how the pro-life movement made a liberal out of me.
People will tell you that Roe V. Wade doubled abortion, but it didn't. It doubled LEGAL abortion, but not how many were actually happening--it exposed the truth. Abortion was actually more common before Roe V. Wade than it is today. Doctors just wrote it down as a polyp removal, or women took a bus to a different state where it was legal, or they mail-ordered "menstrual regulators"--concoctions that would cause them to miscarry. The only reason coat-hanger abortions happened was because teenage girls were so terrified of anyone finding out that they were even pregnant in the first place--because the consequences were horrific!
If you got pregnant out of wedlock, your life was over. In some cases literally, because most parents felt socially obliged to kick you out of their home, and some girls died of hypothermia. It was just expected, something they "had to" do. Similarly all schools and colleges had a policy of expelling any girl or woman who got pregnant--so your education ended. If you had a job and turned up pregnant out of wedlock, you'd likely get fired. Sometimes you were even fired for getting pregnant in wedlock, but at least you'd have a husband to support you and the child. But only the sleaziest employers would hire somebody known to have gotten pregnant without a wedding ring; if you were lucky that meant earning a poverty-level wage at a dive bar or a strip joint. If you were unlucky that meant prostitution. And even some soup kitchens wouldn't serve food to someone visibly pregnant without a spouse. Similarly, unwed mothers couldn't rent from anybody except those who didn't care about their establishment's reputation. So even if you didn't become a prostitute, yourself, your child would still grow up in an atmosphere of crime and degradation.
What Roe V. Wade did was wake up the Christian community to the problem. We saw how our own judgmentalness was driving this horror. We started fighting for the right for girls and women to stay in school, we started charities to help impoverished mothers, and instead of shaming parents for keeping their pregnant daughters at home, we started praising them.
Gradually the numbers of abortion per capita started to shrink. And frankly, they shrank faster under Democrats than under Republicans. Because it wasn't hidden any longer.
In the 1990's the UN made a survey of abortions all over the world. I used to have the number of that survey so people could look it up, but a computer crash years ago obliterated it. They found that whether or not abortion was legal did not impact abortions per capita--but what did impact it was how that society treated women, children, and families. Did they have safety nets for impoverished families? Did girls get an adequate education? Did jobs offer maternity leave? Did they have safe maternity hospitals? Was it more important to feed a pregnant woman than to punish her? A whole matrix of policies springing from liberal attitudes to give concrete support for childbirth and child-rearing made the difference between life and death.
So I vote Liberal. I don't care what a politician gives lip-service to, I vote for those who actually save lives. And you save more babies with food stamps than with pieces of paper proclaiming laws that have always been easy to circumvent.
Abortion has increased since the overturning of Roe V. Wade. Too many people think that changing the law has "solved" abortion, so now they don't have to worry about the effects of cutting mothers off from hope in ways that save themselves money or feeds their sense of moral superiority. But I don't want to go back to the days when every so often the highway patrol would find a dead pregnant girl in the snow.
Completely agree with you and you make a cogent argument. In addition, when Roe legalized abortion, that put and end to the horrors of "back room abortions" where many young women lost their lives and their ability to have children in the future. Overturning Roe will just bring that back. Making abortions illegal won't stop them, it will just make them much less safe for pregnant women. And the whole idea of prosecuting women for a miscarriage or an ectopic pregnancy is sheer lunacy. My mother had a miscarriage; my mother-in-law had an ectopic pregnancy. Both my mother and my mother-in-law had an "abortion" and they weren't called "murderers". They weren't charged with murder, they weren't sent to jail for life (if that had happened neither my husband or I would even be here--and some of you may thing my not being here would be a good thing). And to punish doctors with threats of prosecution for murder and taking away their right to practice medicine? Well, that has effects. I live in a red state with a very strict abortion ban (and no, it won't be on the ballot because our legislature and Supreme Court won't allow it be). OB/GYN physicians are leaving my state in droves. It's difficult to find an OB/GYN now and it's next to impossible to get an appointment even for things like a yearly pap smear--and the quality of the doctor, well, let's just say the "good" doctors aren't ones staying in the state to practice medicine. As one doctor put it, she said something to the effect that she didn't decide to practice medicine and go to medical school so she could stand idly by and watch her patient die when she had the skills and ability to prevent that death.
I always found this kind of argumentation weak. The same arguments can be used to legalize heroin.
@@citoante An excellent point! And do you know what happens to countries that legalize heroin? Addiction drops. Seriously, it does. Portugal had a horrible addiction problem, until they stopped treating it like a legal problem and started treating it like a medical problem. Here's how that worked:
1. Addicts stopped having to go to criminals for their fixes, and went to doctors instead. The doctors were committed to helping them stop--they had dedicated their lives to making people well. In contrast, pushers didn't care about their customer's health and did everything to keep them addicted. More and more addicts got clean and sober.
2. Crime dropped dramatically. The addicts no longer had to pay enormous hazard pay costs for what they could get at slightly above cost of manufacture at a clinic. So they no longer had to steal. They could settle into simple jobs that anyone with half a functioning brain could do, and their lives stabilized. From that position, still more addicts got healthy and got off drugs.
3. Crime also dropped dramatically because pushers went out of business. When you're a businessman, and you can't call the police if a rival steals your inventory, you have to compete to be the meanest, scariest pusher in the neighborhood to fend them off. You have incentive to torture, rape and murder. (This was even true of 18h century tea smugglers!)
4. Addiction to legal drugs, like oxycontin and Xanax, also went down. Because now doctors had options to treat addicted patients besides abruptly cutting them off and turning them out on streets to look for some replacement.
5. New addicts became fewer and fewer. First because, before legalization, pushers would pressure their victims to introduce new people to heroin so they could expand their customer base. In fact, many addicts became pushers themselves to finance their own habits.
Second, because pushers wanted to start people on drugs as young as possible, but nobody in the medical profession wants anyone to start on heroin. The addict population in Portugal--what remains of it--is aging out.
Portugal is a much, much happier, safer, healthier place because they stopped jailing heroin addicts and started treating them instead.
Thank you for bringing this up!
@@DoloresJNurss nice fairy tale. Maybe you should update your data. “Overdose rates have hit 12-year highs and almost doubled in Lisbon from 2019 to 2023. Sewage samples in Lisbon show cocaine and ketamine detection is now among the highest in Europe, with elevated weekend rates suggesting party-heavy usage. In Porto, the collection of drug-related debris from city streets surged 24 percent between 2021 and 2022, with this year on track to far outpace the last. Crime - including robbery in public spaces - spiked 14 percent from 2021 to 2022, a rise police blame partly on increased drug use.” You should read a Washington post article about it. Abortion, drugs, it’s all dirty business.
@@citoante unfair and wrong analogy. False equivalency.
Pastor, thank you for telling your story and for being so candid. I just wish that pro-life folks would realize that being being pro-choice does not mean being pro-abortion.
BTW, why can't/didn't Repubs nominate a different pro life candidate than Rump? Someone who didn't share US political docs and info with foreign dictators and unfriendly leaders. Who doesn't have a myriad of sexual assault charges. A history of non payment to contractors for work.
Can't Republicans nominate such an individual? It cannot be that difficult.
Unfortunately, though, it kind of does. Imagine if I told you that I personally don't believe that drunk driving is OK, but I believe that it should be legal because I'm "pro-choice" about drinking and driving. How is that any different than being pro-drunk-driving?
@@deantodd8103not really inappropriate comparison laws have gone too far. Doctors can't help a woman at risk of losing her life. In Texas they are considering saying if you travel out of Texas to get an abortion elsewhere you will be held on criminal charges even if it is to save your life. Has the anti-abortion movement become the pro mother death movement? Has it become the pro violence against women and children movement? Now victims of violent crime who become pregnant cannot obtain an abortion? Even children? I protested abortion with a Catholic group. But I never intended for these Draconian efforts to be made. The pro-life movement has become an anti-woman movement. Just NO!
Kind of a strange analogy. Drunk driving deals with a safety law. I don't see the equivalency.
@@dianedavidson3533
Abortion negatively impacts the safety of the unborn.
Your analysis is desperately needed. Thank you for all you do. You are principled and amazingly strong. Please keep up the good fight
100%
I can be pro-life and still feel that passing govt laws to keep people from "sinning" is wrong!
God Made Government to be a denture in the world. With Governor s an rulers to protect people from evil people that's in the world also. People who won't listen or won't do the right thing in love an living as a Good citizen. Laws are passed by government s to protect Evil people from destroying the World from around everyone else.
I am tired of politicians who profess with their mouth Jesus and their lives reflect nothing of Him.
I am a Christian.
I am an American.
Spiritually, I believe in the sanctity of life. I believe we should win over the hearts and minds of other people to be anti-abortion except when it is medically necessary. You can't be pro-life and ignore the health/medical needs of the mother. She is also a life. This is how I feel as a Christian.
As an American, I believe in the separation of Church and State.
The State cannot criminalize a medical procedure and say vaguely, except sometimes we may not prosecute woman, the doctor, the family / friends, but then again we might prosecute them and strip doctors of their license with fines and jail time and any friends or family who knew or suspected it.
And most absurdly, seek the death penalty against a woman or doctor.
Eye for an eye anybody?
Plus when is ensoulment?
By which religious standard if there is to be no establishment of a state( government) religion.
Without codifying with guarantees of some personal saftey , in the law, what exactly is or is not when an abortion is warranted as a medical procedure, then radical rightwing legislatures have only opened a new can of worms .
And they have.
Because they cannot win all the hearts and minds, so instead they try to force their religion on others in a most unchristian, heartless, manipulative way.
I just have a problem with mixing religion and politics.
Especially, bad policy.
Thank you for speaking out. You are deeply rooted in common sense and that is so refreshing.
If I were the devil, I would run for president on the Republican ticket, say I was prolife, and laugh all the way to the Whitehouse.
I'm a Christian who is pro choice. We need to be less judgemental about other people's choices to protect our own.
There has been studies that show abortions go down when we do things to help prevent problems to begin with. Ie help someone that cannot afford take care of a child. Assist with those with special needs instead of new model you can't have an abortion even in the case of rape ect but we are not going to help you either. In fact some states are even threatening to put people in jail. How does that solve anything?
Thank you Pastor.
My story is the mirror of yours, Pat. I was born at the end of 1963. I have a very strong memory of driving home with my mom (a public schoolteacher and a pastor's wife) from school. On the radio, we heard a news report that Roe had been decided. This was in 1973. My mom said "good," which caused me to ask what it was about. She told me about abortion, and I remember this as clearly as if she said it moments ago; she said: "I don't want a man telling me what to do with my body." Mom was a compassionate, caring Christian till the day she died, and I know she never needed nor had an abortion. But she was a strong woman, who always stood up for herself. I took her words to heart, and have always been pro-choice. We men need to step back from this one issue, and let women decide it. I know that's impossible, but I will defer to women to decide what to do with their bodies. The majority of women are pro-choice.
The majority of women are not pro choice.
@@janedoe6704 According to Gallup, Pew, Forbes, and Vox polls (the first ones that came up in a Google search), more U.S. women are pro-choice by about 10 percentage points. This has been true for decades. Men bring those numbers down when added to the overall polling percentages. Most women want to be in control of their bodies.
@janedoe - According to all the polls I can see from a quick Google search (Pew, Gallup, Vox, etc) Women are pro choice by 10 percentage points. That number narrows when you add men to the mix. That's why I say men should stay out of this debate. Men never bear children, and always have the option to ignore their responsibilities as caregivers.
@@janedoe6704that is false. With a quick perusal of Gallup, the majority of Americans are pro-choice and if you look at a breakdown by gender, that's because the majority of women are pro-choice. The majority of MEN are pro-life.
Whenever I run into a single issue voter (anti abortion), I refer them to Proverbs 6:16-19, these scriptures include murder but list 6 other issues the Lord hates which single issue voters ignore.
I make a chart listing the 7 abominations giving a line for each, then columns for each candidate and check off each (based on what I know or believe about the candidates).
Last presidential election one candidate got all 7 and the other got one….so I voted for the person who got one check mark…Biden.
Thanks so much for the Bible passage in this context. Ultimately we can’t legislate morality. We live in a democracy. I don’t see how voting for the most immoral person on the ticket is helpful. He spews hatred. When he and the MAGAs are voted out, then we can be pickier with people who are more in line with Biblical values. None of what I hear from Trump or MAGA followers is remotely Christian-like. None of them will get my vote. I’ll be praying for the eyes of freedom loving Christians to see that voting for anyone on the other side of the ticket trumps voting for DJT.
Spotted the cult member.@@tgriffin3059
Your math is lacking accuracy
Me too! Also o used James 1:8,26
I was a pro-life Republican until the pandemic. So I held my nose and voted for Trump but that’s when it ended. First I had to overcome the brainwashing that the pro-life police inflicted on me and that was catastrophic. And I struggled with this leading into the 2020 election. I realized that to be pro-life meant all life born and unborn. So when Trump ordered that all the poor mostly immigrant works go back into the meat packing factories with little or no protection that was it. And then the scales came off my eyes. I had been voting for the unborn and neglecting the born. We reject the democrats stance on health care because of the unborn and because it’s socialized medicine. But that’s not pro-life. Jesus speaks about the healthcare of the poor in two parables.1. Lazarus and the Rich-man. Lazarus has no healthcare except dogs licking his sores. While the rich-man has the essential oils and whatever helps the priest could offer. He’s steps over the sick and leaves him to his devises. Where did the rich man end up? Looking up from hell begging Christ to let him go warn his brothers. Then read Matthew 28. Christians denied this as socialized Christianity. It’s not! It’s Christ warning to how we will be judged when we vote against the poor. Finally, I came to realize that the unborn die either born dead or aborted end up in one place with Jesus. So I will continue to vote for the least of these until we figure out a way to care for the born.
So heartwarming to see growth! Thanks for your testimony!
Oh my God, its NOT socialism to demand healthcare for all! We pay taxes so the government can pay for services for our benefit. That is democracy. They are taxing us more and more, but where is all that money going? Its not going to anything that would help us to have a better quality of life. The services that help us get cut and we end up with next to nothing for being taxed, and THAT is taxation with NO representation and is what started the revolutionary war. They call it socialism so that people will not fight for a better life for themselves. It is mind control and manipulation, so we won't put up a fight while we are getting screwed over. That's fascism. This country is corrupt to the core and they have us fighting against each other and our own best interests with words like "woke" and "socialism" so we won't wake up and realise they are robbing us blind.
F. Scott Fitzgerald famously wrote: “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless yet be determined to make them otherwise.”
You have met God Sir. I will keep praying for you for God to keep inspiring, empowering and encouraging you. May you be blessed.
Crying really blessed by this!
Thank you for caring and sharing.
I’m a solo mom who is disabled with connective tissue disorder and TBI .
This topic has really bothered me. Everyone who loves me wanted me to get an abortion so I’d survive.
I survived and have life altering injuries .
I know first hand if I didn’t have Jesus and support from real Christian’s I would have taken my life in pregnancy or postpartum.
It is not easy, it is not safe it is not good for every woman to go through. God created free will, I believe He is pro choice.
So did Billy Graham.
Jesus wants us to educate the world not force it. Thank you and your wife for all you have done ❤️
You are so completely correct - God, or whatever Spiritual Leader you believe in, is definitely Pro Choice - that's probably why we use the term "free will". It is very disturbing to hear comments about Pro Life from folks and then you realize that they NEVER once use the word "Jesus". As you said, we are not hear to be "punished" for any wrong doings - we are hear to learn - forgiveness and tolerance and self-sacrifice are the things Jesus spoke of - the current Christian teachings have lost their way - completely.
Thanks for putting into words so much of what I believe too. Thanks for speaking truth in a loving way. Thanks for representing evangelical Christians so well.
As a Christian myself, and 2020 Trump supporter, I can relate to this message. I mistakenly viewed Trump as the lesser evil in part due to abortion, but I've come to realize that there's a scale of virtues and vices that we need to look at holistically. After the events of the 2020 election, I too consider Trump to be unacceptable, and believe that there may be enough swing voters out there who do fit this description. Hoping that there are more 'on the fence' people who finally realize that we can't only look at a single issue and throw our support behind an otherwise reprehensible person. I'm also fortunate to be in a church that doesn't view Trump as this 'chosen one', but I am saddened for those who attend MAGA churches.
Amen my brother, again you are explained your case very well. Unfortunately, some Christians love to say that “Christians shouldn’t vote Democrat” or “an individual is not a Christian if they vote Democrat.” As an American you have the right to vote for anyone you choose to and your faith is not dependent on who you vote for. May God continue to bless you!!
I fail to see which Christian values Republicans actually have...
It's interesting because they're essentially saying our black and brown brothers and sisters are not Christians because they disagree with how they vote.
I’m fairly new to your program, and I really appreciate your program, and the thoughtful and careful way you express your views.
Tim Alberta touched on this subject and I respect him for it. With our religious convictions comes a blind spot for mankind to exploit for power or monetary gains . God gives us doctors, but some use faith to avoid it…
You’re the first Christian I’ve seen that is actually thinking rationally instead of emotionally…I can respect that 👍
I deeply respect your viewpoints. Deeply. I just want to toss in my experience.
I was 💯 pro-life until I had an ectopic pregnancy. The baby was alive in my tube, but unable to be saved. My tube burst at about 9 weeks pregnant. I almost bled to death. Fast forward to 2020 when my 15 week old fetus died in my womb, because of a hematoma. Without the DNC, I possibly could have had life long consequences or death. I have seen so many Republicans want to criminalize both of these procedures. Since the abortion restrictions went into place, more women have been in danger, have had life long complications, and even have died. So my views have changed from experience.
Thank you for speaking up and speaking out. You restore faith in Christianity. I have a deep respect for you.
Thank you! Finally, someone who speaks truth to power.
Love your talks. I agree with you about so much. Thank you so much for tackling this subject. It gives me such peace to know there are others out there not drinking the Koolaid.
The "right-to-life" movement has frequently seemed hypocritical to me in that the life of the unborn appears to be more important than the life of those who have already been born. Once a child has been born, they need food, clothing and care. All of which tend to not be supported by the very people who wanted the child to be born in the first place.
Now, I'm not a fan of abortions, I think they should be rare, and reserved for saving the life of the mother. As such, I think all men should use protection to prevent unwanted pregnancies. But like any medical procedure, they should be safe and legal.
Does life "begin" at conception? Aside from being an irrelevant question, no, at conception, life "continues." Is it sacred? Not yet. Does a fetus have a soul? Not yet. It is an animal. Does it even have a personality? Not so far as we can tell. And miscarriages are a fact of nature. We do know abortions are messy and a distasteful business, (not counting those caused by drugs). It would be very nice if most doctors didn't need to do any.
Does "pro-choice" mean "anti-life"? Of course not! It means that fetuses are not individuals until they individuate - are born. Prior to that, they are a part of the mother. (Even after birth, according to psychologists, babies think they are still part of the mother. It takes a while for them to function on their own.) And mothers are people. They are given freewill by God, and no one should have the power to take that away from anybody. Women must be allowed to make their own choices regarding their own bodies. There are things we can do to make the choice of keeping the baby more attractive, e.g., great prenatal care etc. But ultimately, the decision rests with them.
The Bible is not anti-abortion. It even proscribes how to do one. It was the Vatican, in 1975 that decided to make abortion a political wedge issue, in part, to undermine the separation of church (them) and state. And they recruited the GOP and the Evangelicals to champion their cause. From a book titled Confronting Church and State: Memoirs of an Activist, by Rev John M. Swomley, we get this:
In order to put Vatican directives into U.S. law, the Catholic bishops on November 20, 1975, issued their Pastoral Plan for Pro-Life Activities. It was clearly a political document. The Plan stated, “It is absolutely necessary to encourage the development in each congressional district of an identifiable, tightly knit and well-organized pro-life unit.” The Bishops also decided to “urge appointment of judges” who would take the Vatican position on abortion. The Plan listed specific directives for dealing with members of Congress and for the legislative committees, such as “Contact members of the House Judiciary Subcommittee and get a commitment from each member.” It also had a plan for Catholic high school seniors, for initiating contact with non-Catholic churches and scholars. In short, The Catholic bishops have had a strategy since 1975 to persuade everyone to accept Papal decrees.
Bible is anti abortion. Sacrificing children to moloch is OT abortion. It’s just that modern technology enables you to philosophize about life. Before abortions, unwanted children were just killed. The point when this human being becomes a “person” is completely arbitrary and if you didn’t have abortion technology you would argue for baby murder. Other than that, it’s not like Trump will stop abortions, although I am convinced that in the future you won’t be able to find a doctor that will do it.
Which is a long-winded way of saying, all the folks actively involved with the “pro-life” camp, are all unwitting shills for Vatican Rule. They’re ‘the man behind the curtain’.
Thanks for your answer
I am sending your message to family members out of my reach. Bless you my brother, stay focused on Him. His will WILL be done.
Thank you, Father Kahnke.
Pastor you are so eloquent and so enlightening. You are a God send. Thank you for your You Tube videos. Thank you and God Bless you.
Totally agree with you. Trying to figure out if he is the Anti Christ in revelation, but what ever he is, he is evil. And it does surprise me how people don't see this.
Thank you for sharing your story. I needed that because I feel the same way! Thank You
Very helpful for me as someone who voted 3rd party the last to two Presidential elections. Trying to decide if Biden's aggressive pro-choice and pro-LGBT policies can be stomached. But if Trump is the threat to democracy he seems to be ... Thanks for your story.
This is how a politician ought to be thinking, with some power in political issues yet giving back the same power to the individual at the end of the day.
I'm an 80 year old woman and one who has spent 20 years living and working in 30 traditional cultures.
1. the 'sanctity of life' is one of the most hypocritical phrase. Have Humans taken care of the Waters, Airs, Soils, Species that give us 'life'? No! In fact, the christian bible says that 'man has dominion over life' ... The christian bible does not say: 'man has a caring responsibility to all the Waters, Airs, Soils, Species and One Another'.
2. Now, let's get to Women, pregnancy, birth, babies, and Life. Every Woman gives up her Life to carry, birth, and raise a child! Every Woman gives up her Life to do that whether she wants a child or not. Deeply understand this. Every Woman gives up her Life to bring forward another Life ... whether she likes doing that or not.
3. In every culture in the World over Time and Place, Women have been desperate to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, terminate one, and even abandon or kill their newborn. Every culture!
4. Every culture around the world, until Immunization and antibiotic, expected to lose 20-30% of children under the age of 5. Childrens' lives were fragile. In many cultures children are not named until they thrive. Do you understand what that means to the Women who give up their lives to carry, birth, and then lose 20-30% of their children?
5. Every Woman who gives up her Life to carry, birth, and raise a child wants her child to outlive her. Women know they are preventing a pregnancy or killing a baby via termination. Women DO NOT distinguish how our babies are killed ... by ourselves or by circumstances/other: drugs, abuse, poverty, wars, suicides, guns, natural disasters, disease, accidents and others.
There is ZERO 'sanctity of Life' if you do not understand this. Life is not an unborn child. Life is everything on this Planet! And Life and Death are part of Everything.
6. When Women can have reproductive and sexual 'choice', they have Reproductive and Sexual Equality.
7. There is zero effort to require every male to have a vasectomy after the age of 14/16!
8. There is ZERO effort to stop the wars, and clean up our Airs, Waters, And Soils and protect the Oceans, Sky, Land, and ALL Species.
9. The Pro-Life Movement is a sham. It's Anti-Earth and Anti-Woman and Anti-Child. It is a conservative, radical religious oppression of those 3 things while giving 'man dominion over ...'
You are showing a soft and tender heart and adding intelligence on top. Thank you.
Excellent video -- I admire how you have thought through all this and can express it in an orderly way.
Yes! But he is still not a woman.
@@bthomson , I don't see what difference that makes at all. Men love their babies too, and care about the future of the country too.
I am finding your observations very valuable. Thank you.
I started a discussion about abortion on X, formerly known as Twitter, but the only participant had only one stock answer which was about killing babies. There was no way to have a conversation with him because all he would reply was, « you want to kill babies, » so I put an end to it. I felt as though he was trying to manipulate me and lay a guilt trip on me for saying that the issue is a lot more complex than he thought, and that’s abhorrent to me.
I find it interesting that the response to your discussion seems to be a "he". 77% of "pro-lifers" are men and most of that is white, no doubt, but I do not have a statistic on that. I want abortion to be rare, preventable and safe. I had been, 2 decades ago, under the impression that most people who got abortions did so as a form of birth control. Those abortions are preventable thru education and contraception, but the Repubes want to ban contraception, so they are really about controlling women. My mom was a pediatrician and is a Christian. My mom obviously wants to protect life. And she is the one who changed my mind about abortion. Yes, some abortions are "birth control," but there is soooooooooo much more to the subject! There's of course rape and incest. And young women, like a teenager, is actually more likely to have complications, so that is something to consider. Then, what solidified my feelings about being pro-choice is when something goes wrong in the pregnancy and the baby isn't viable and the life of the mother is at risk. But mostly, it's about choice. A lot of women, if not most, will choose to have the baby. It's the fact that she has the choice to get the health care she needs is important. Because Repubes also want to take away our health care. Taking away choices makes people more desperate.
Also, let's consider just some of the consequences of abortion bans:
1. Women will complete suicide.
2. The foster care/adoption system will be overwhelmed. On top of the fact they are already overwhelmed.
3. Women will feel they need to stay in abusive relationships
4. Abuse of children will increase
5. Infanticide will increase
6. Women will die during pregnancy because they won't be able to get the necessary care they need. Examples: ectopic pregnancy, something goes horribly wrong in the pregnancy etc
7. Infant death that is not Infanticide will increase. For example, since Texas put in their almost complete abortion ban, infant deaths have increased 11%.
And there are other consequences I prolly haven't considered. These are just consequences I came up with off the top of my head. One could argue rape could increase. If women are seen as "less than" or "man's property", more violence will be aimed toward them.
I don't think the anti-choicers consider these bigger consequences.
And we're seeing them trying to take away other choices. They want to take away the right for parents to make decisions for their transchild. They want to take away our choices in what we read. Some states are trying to take away our choice to travel! It's in an attempt to prevent pregnant women from getting an abortion, but the consequence is that women in Texas, for example, aren't able to get an Uber to go to a doctor's appointment.
I truly don't think pro-choice is about wanting to "kill babies". It's truly about choice. I also don't think "pro-lifers" are about life because there's so much they ignore that would sustain life.
The best explanation of the issue I’ve ever heard!
There are certainly people on either side of the question who reason and act in good faith. Excellent topic.
Thank you for being fair
@@tgriffin3059 Textbook bad-faith participation.
Again, thank you for your thoughtfulness. I had a long discussion, some years back, with friends from our congregation who were surprised to learn I was voting for a "pro-choice" candidate. They really wanted to understand, which is unusual. I basically said I was not going to decide on that one issue. I appreciate your articulating why that is sensible to you.
Hello Pat, I'm sorry that I can't send this to you individually. I'm sorry if you receive resistance as a result.. I am so encouraged by your thoughtful, balanced approach to the topics you are addressing. THANK YOU!!! I am an evangelical PCUSA pastor, and I have have wrestled with the same, that you faithfully articulate so well. One thing that has helped me in the issues you present in # 4 was the realization that in the much older and in some ways important to recognize Jewish faith; a child's life is real when the first BREATH occurs! ( i know you recognize the similarities. It's worth meditating on this) That insight was so helpful for me even as I am not offering it to you in any effort to convince you. I guess what I want to underline, is that I appreciate what you are doing , in such a gracious, truthful , faithful, and necessary way. The peace of Christ, and the grace of the Holy Spirit be with you!
I heard Bart Ehrman answering the question about what would Jesus say about abortion. He said the Jewish perspective was life began at birth and as a devout Jew, he would have believed the same.
Thank you for your honesty. Please keep your message going.
You do such a great job explaining your thought process in arriving where you are today and these videos really are great for setting up where you are heading!
Ooooh! I’ve been looking forward to this episode! I know it’s going to be good.
This series is needed and indeed helpful.
Refusing to listen to others, to lived experiences, is the recipe for disaster and annihilation
(Pro-choice here.) OF COURSE life is important but OTHER THINGS are too! A woman's life and health and her doctor's advice. Religious ideas have too often put women as second class citizens. More than one half of human beings! We have a right to decide what our bodies do.
I do however appreciated your nuanced position.
Don't let DT off the hook by using the term "pro-life." He could care less about morality. He is "anti-abortion." Even then, he is cunning enough to know that a ban on abortion is bad for his chances in 2024.
Mr. Kahnke uses a reasoned argument for his points of view that most Trump supporters either can't or won't follow.
Another great video!!
THANK YOU!!!!
I appreciate hearing your story, Pat. I am pro-choice, in part because my religion (Judaism) is much less absolute about the status of a fetus than much of Christianity is. Essentially, the full human right to life begins at birth, and the genuine needs of a woman take precedence over the needs of the fetus. Many Christians don't realize that prohibiting abortion across the board can also be a violation of freedom of religion. But I have great respect for the thoughtful way you approach this issue.
Wow. So grateful for what you have expressed here!
Thank you Pat!
Thank You, as always. Sorry for coming out swinging earlier. I should listen to your entire message before I comment. Lol. I'll work on that.
This is so very helpful. Thank you.
Brilliant presentation!
What an incredibly nuanced and helpful look at an issue that seems dominated by hot takes and power grabs. Wherever someone lands on the spectrum, there's a lot of food for thought here. Deeply needed and much appreciated.
Love your story.❤
Thank you - I felt it was important to share it in this series, just so people know where I'm coming from. I'm guessing there are aspects to it that everyone might disagree with, and aspects that a lot of people might agree with. But in the end, I think it's important for people to hear other people talk through their process of deciding some of these hard things.
The most succint argument I’ve ever heard.
Thank you for opening up about your journey, Pat. I hope your willingness to explain your views, and the reasoning behind them, will help to further some positive conversation on this issue.
Great video!
I respect the idea of a culture of life.
Early input (only 2 minutes in, but I got to write this while I remember the wording): Voting for Donald Trump using the argument hat he's pro life, is like setting your house on fire because you like beautiful red fire trucks.
People need to consider the entire package, not just that "pro life thing"
Wow! You have nailed it!
Thanks for speaking the truth.
The world started being slowly turned upside down in 2016, and any true Christian has to stop and think instead of just going along because they agree with a policy, or what they hear at a surface level. It can be easy to miss the big picture, like not seeing the forest for the trees. If you follow Jesus, he was an extremely wise man with deep thinking, not someone who would go along with anything that sounds good (if Trump even sounds good these days after everything we know). We must follow our deeper wisdom and deeper thinking within us, it is different from the surface of the mind.
When they passed the anti abortion laws I discovered that some states do not even allow a procedure done - I forgot the medical term but I had a co worker that had to have this done basically they discover the fetus is dead and have to remove it. 1 it poses a threat to the mother because they can become infected and it is very difficult and dangerous to deliver it. I was astounded when I heard that he was not allowed to do those procedures because it was considered "abortion" That is is extreme.
May the Holy Spirit send you power and strength to keep doing what you’re doing.
Mr. You speak for me and you make a lot of sense! When it comes to moral n ethical laws, the Lord will be the One to punish those He calls sins and disobedience.
Thank you for making these videos. Especially this one. I am similar to you in that I've always been pro-life and I used to vote primarily Republican. But no more. I'm glad that you're making your case from the faith basis that Christians can relate to. I've shared a couple of these on social media. I think it fills a very much needed bridge in this crazy political atmosphere.
Thank you - I appreciate it!
Thank you for this. I am pro-choice, but I'm willing to say life begins at conception.
The truth of the matter is, however, that the pregnant woman is also alive and that what the pro-life legal position is doing reduces the pregnant woman legally to being a life support machine even though doing so is risking her own life and health. Rates of death for women are increased when they are pregnant for a wide variety of reasons, some of them not strictly medical (for example, pregnant women are more likely to be murdered by their partner). In no other situation are we required to allow our bodies to be used this way. And once you are pregnant, so much of what you do affects the life within that you're going to be legally responsible for how well you dedicate yourself to being the life support machine. What medicines we take, what jobs we can do, what we eat and drink, and a wide variety of other things are all things we become liable for as abuse in a situation where we cannot put the life within into someone else's care. I had easy, wanted, pregnancies, and I cannot see forcing someone to continue a pregnancy as anything other than a violation of their bodily autonomy -- it affects everything. Pregnancy, even good, easy pregnancy and birth, affects your body for the rest of your life.
I can't force you to give up your kidney to protect someone who would die without it. I can't even force you to donate blood, which is far less invasive, to save someone's life. I see pregnancy in a similar light.
If you are truly pro life you would vote for: sex ed, snap benefits, Medicare for all, higher minimum wage, etc. Those are policies that make life better for people, you know, feed the poor, etc. What Jesus taught.
Dr's and hospitals have become fearful of dealing with pregnant women who have any difficulty and either turn them away until near death or quit offering obstetrical care at all. Why would a young woman here want to get pregnant when they will risk being abandoned medically? In my entire 70 years in the US has it been so dangerous for women and the unborn, even before Roe there were safety measures allowed. Now most drs won't take those safety measures.
Completely agree with you.
I have a parent that has severe BPD with tendencies for anti-social and sadistic behavior. And very low conscienceness and empathy, and no remorse. Or a sociopath with the same tendencies. I see all that in Trump. She also uses superficial charm like Trump to con. His language is the same template they all with similar personalities use to cause harm and intimidation. To him speaking his language is important to getting his way. It dawned on me that he only hears those who use the same tactics. During my own healing of extreme parental abuse, my own pain and anger and having a mother who only ever cares about money, power and absolute control of everyone in her family to the point of extreme abuse just as Trump does. She never has taken any accountability just as Trump. Maybe you can imagine how I have been formally diagnosed with COMPLEX -PTSD three times in 14 years. A popular diagnosis for those who has had to endure severe mental cruelty by the very hands God made to nurture and build up.I missed out on my own childhood. If a human can consume another that's how I describe what my mom does to me.
It was almost easier for me to use my trauma response by freely letting go in words on Trump. Knowing his ways. As he too has the same abusive criminal mind. Only he's doing it to those who do not agree with him and see through him.
Listening to you in these videos. You articulated our nations polartity with compassion and illustrated a realistic way going forward in this crazy time in our nation. You a true lover of Christ Jesus.
Elequently. Thank you.
I’m a Christian and also pro-choice, for many reasons. I could never choose to have an abortion, but I have also never been poor, pregnant, alone and afraid, or the victim of rape or incest, or carrying a pregnancy that put my life at risk. How can I judge these women? I also base my belief about life on my faith, but many people in America don’t share that faith. They have a right to their beliefs also. Don’t we all have freedom of religion? I’m also a social worker, and due to my professional experience I don’t believe outlawing abortion will decrease abortions. Women choose abortion because they feel they have no other choice. Why aren’t pro-lifers spending time & money increasing services and resources for pregnant women? I also find pro-lifers to be inconsistent. Why are they also pro-gun and anti universal healthcare ? Wouldn’t gun control laws increase life? Wouldn’t universal healthcare increase life? You can’t just be pro-unborn life. I feel the Republican party has just used this issue to work up the emotions of their followers and get them out to vote, not because they actually care about life.
I’m going to put this question to you, one that I never hear anyone address on this subject. Why doesn’t anyone speak about birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies? Even abstinence is an option, and I’m not Catholic. I know in other countries they use abortion as their main method or only method of birth control. It would sure stop a lot of unwanted pregnancies if men and women were more mindful about prevention, I believe.
I agree with you. But, Pat did briefly mention birth control. I can't remember how he put it, but he said some methods don't prevent pregnancy. I think he meant that some birth-control methods are actually abortion done at a very early stage. For example, a drug that prevents the zygote from attaching to the wall of the uterus.
As a perinatal nurse, I can tell you that birth control fails, even when used correctly. There are also situations where the pregnancy was wanted and planned for, but something went wrong and now the pregnancy must be terminated for the mother's life and health. A lack of timely abortions causes infections, scarring in the uterus and fallopian tubes, including Asherman's syndrome, and suddenly a woman who wanted to be a mom has lost both her child and her fertility. That's not pro-life, that's cruelty.
@@carmelcameron1889Most birth control prevents ovulation altogether. That's why it can take time to get pregnant when coming off of it, the body needs time to regulate the natural cycle. Preventing a fertilized egg from implanting isn't abortion, and this happens naturally all the time (chemical pregnancy).
@@LulaMae21 I understand there are rare cases that can save a mother’s life. And I know birth control doesn’t always work. But when you speak of cruelty I remember the documentary I watch that shows the most commonly used methods of abortion, now that’s cruelty!! It absolutely brutal torture for the unborn. have you watched it? It’s on TH-cam, The Silent Scream. From what I understand there are actually few doctors willing to perform an abortion because they know what is involved. Being a prenatal nurse you should know how very early a fetus developed the ability to feel pain. It’s a horrific process for both the unborn and for the mother. I know many women who’ve regretted having an abortion when they were teenagers, now that they’ve grown up to have children and even grandchildren of their own to love with everything in them. If they could go back they would have never made that choice.
@@LulaMae21 I hope you haven't concluded that Pat (or even I) came out against birth control. I'm just saying that he mentioned it and said Pro-life people have to consider the issues around IVF and "certain forms of birth control" which I assumed meant the kind that destroys a zygote. My assumption. I didn't mean to put words in Pat's mouth.
I appreciate that you are clear about you thoughts and feelings surrounding abortion. And I respect that you do consider the rights of a woman as being highly important. I hope to be as clear and thoughtful.
For me, the single thought that leads to my conclusion to be pro-choice is this: Some women will die due to being pregnant. That is an unavoidable truth. The statistics on maternal mortality have been trending the wrong direction in the United States and some other Western countries in recent decades. Also, the maternal mortality rates show large disparities based on race, ethnicity, and income level. I have then failed to find any situation where a man can be held legally liable for refusing to risk his own life to aid another person. In fact, my understanding is that a person is never legally required to risk significant injury to assist a person in distress. I then can't justify legally requiring women to risk their health, let alone their lives, to try to carry a pregnancy to term. I would come to the same conclusion whether or not I viewed the human life developing in the womb to be a person in the same way that I consider all of us to be persons.
That I do not view an embryo, fetus, or other stage of development to grant full personhood, only makes it more clear to me that placing that requirement on women is a violation of their equal rights as human beings, relative to any man.
I think it is also instructive to consider the inevitable result if abortion was removed as an safe and legal option for all women in the U.S. With approximately 1,000,000 abortions being performed annually, it would mean 1 million women carrying pregnancies to term if none of them could choose to terminate their pregnancies. The maternal mortality rate is around 20 deaths per 100,000 live births in this country. All of those 1 million women not having abortions would mean up to 200 would be expected to die that would not have had they been able to choose abortion. (It would be very likely to be less than that, as some pregnancies result in miscarriage and would not factor in to the maternal mortality statistics, plus some women would find ways to obtain abortions illegally or by traveling to another country.)
Thus, it isn't an abstract idea that a woman's rights are being subjugated to those of the unborn child (to use the term preferred by pro-life advocates). Nor is it that they have to face physical burdens that they otherwise could avoid. It is that their very lives are being put at risk, and that women would die that would have lived if abortion was not an option.
I hope I have been clear, and I hope that this adds positively to our understanding of each other's positions. Thank you.
You were very clear, and I appreciate what you said. Thank you!
I am a Bernie's girl, and I do not believe in abortions for me. Then again, Who am I, nor anyone, to tell women and my daughters what their faith should be, at their most painful, heart breaking and confidential time of their lives!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your history with the movement. I wish I had seen this video before I saw your other one, because you do actually hold a lot of opinions that I find admirable in someone that is pro-life in their personal life.
Well I'm not a believer, but I have people that I love and care for who are very faithful. And they try to live their faith, and I admire that. I see how much it hurts them that the maga movement has so severely damaged the witness. They don't deserve that. Jesus doesn't deserve that.
I was sceptical are you talking on this subject. I will say that I am Canadian and abortion is legal across Canada and is protected under the Health Act. Abortion is off the table politically speaking. In Canada it is up to the individual to decide what is their moral compass on this subject. I understand that you and so many more believe a human life begins at conception. This is your right. I don’t believe that, I believe when a baby is born they become an individual, this is my right. When we live in a democracy where the majority believe abortion should be legal it would be difficult to accept for many. Woman shouldn’t be forced to carry to full term. I personally feel for women who are shamed for making a choice to end a pregnancy. I know several women who have had abortion who did not make that decision lightly.
I can now see how this issue has become so political in the states and hope it does trickle up here. I respect your point of view and your own convictions.
Hope.
27 "Peace I leave with you;
my peace I give to you. Not
as the world gives do I give
to you. Let not your hearts
be troubled, neither let them
be afraid.
RED LETTERS (John 14:27 ESV)
Grace and peace to you!
PR
JESUS 2024
Off topic. On August 11, 2020 Trump says if re-elected he will terminate Social Security. In the 2024 Time magazine interview Trump said if he’s re-elected he will make permanent stopping the payroll tax . The payroll tax is the FICA tax that funds Social Security and Medicare. In 2020 a Social Security actuary said if the FICA tax is no longer collected Social Security would end within 3 years. Not to mention what would happen to Medicare.
This person makes a lot of sense ...
I grew up in a Democratic household and became politically aware during the Clinton years. There were a plenty of bad things that could be said about Clinton but I could see that his policies were more closely aligned with my beliefs in equality and equity than the Republicans who were clearly more focused on denying people rights to vote, to have a social safety net, to believe in anything other than their flavor of Christianity, and anything else to control the levers of power. But one of the biggest things I learned was the hypocrisy of their anti-abortion stance. If they had truly been about the sanctity of life, they would've been for easier access to birth control, age-appropriate sex education, and social programs to lift people out of poverty, as Democrats are, which has been shown to decrease the abortion rate. Abortion rates have always gone up under supposedly pro-life Republicans. They only reduce SAFE abortions with their policies.
It is ironic that Republicans don't want women to have a choice regarding abortion, but the Democrats didn't want all of America to have a choice to refuse the Covid19 vaccines that never did prevent infection or transmission. I am a retired nurse. I am a Christian. I am not anti-science, but I will always defend the right to privacy and the right to choose or refuse medical intervention based on informed consent.
You touched on what bothers me most. I'm agnostic, but the damage he has caused to close, loving relationships over politics is what gets me over and over. The anger and rhetoric is the furthest things from Christian that I can imagine. As a Dem w so many Trump supporter BFF's, I have made it my mission not to allow him to cause that kind of strife. I've only lost 1 person thru these last years + he was being very nasty. I also hate that so many dems think that Trump supporters are racist, xenophobes, anti-LGBTQ+, etc etc etc. I know they're not which makes this all so sad + frustrating!
My question would be how can people be Christian and believe that being Christian is the ONLY religion and that you have to push those beliefs on everyone in our country? I’m a Christian, I’ve been Catholic, and now non- denominational. I don’t believe it’s healthy for me or others to push my beliefs, or them their beliefs or convictions on anyone else. We all have free will and if you truly believe God is the judge of our behaviors/actions then you don’t have to worry about judging anyone else for their actions. God will do it someday. My decision what to do with my body has no direct affect on you. None whatsoever. You don’t want an abortion? Then don’t have one. And then you’ve stuck to your beliefs. But don’t turn back time and put women’s health at risk to push your agenda thinking you’re God. Not your job.
I am an apprentice statistician, who is baffled by Christians who believe that the souls of the innocent aborted-unborn go directly to heaven, and who also believe that relatively few, if allowed to be born, will ultimately be saved and go to heaven. I asked a Christian friend, recently, how many of the general population will be saved and go to heaven. He held up his thumb and forefinger, showing a tiny gap, and said “the bible says, very few!”. To me, it is an obvious and practical set of numbers questions: if there’s something that I can do to ensure 100% of a population goes to heaven, why wouldn’t I do that? If I interfere and force children to be born, many of them into difficult life situations and a low likelihood of going into heaven… why WOULD I do that? That’s not a trick question! As I said, I’m baffled and wondering why I haven’t seen this concept more openly discussed.