ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2022
- These are probably the top two premium scope manufacturers on the market today. But is one better than the other?
Time stamps
01:26 - Quantitative comparison
11:23 - Qualitative comparison
19:13 - Wrap up
Links:
(OLD) Scope test • A Schmidt & Bender Sco...
LPVO comparison • LPVO: Comparing Schmid... - กีฬา
Great review. Thanks for taking the time.
Thank you Mr Serrano
Fantastic channel!
Thank you very much Svein.
Great video
Thank you Seymour.
Got an old Schmidt and bender 8x56 man I love that thing not the most effective hunting scope but I worked around it’s limitation and very successfully I might add, excellent review…..maybe do one of the klassik series please
I would very much like to test other Schmidt & Bender scopes but don't have the money to buy more of these. It would be nice to compare their Klassic series to PMII and see how they differ. Thanks for watching.
I picked up a 5 by 45 high power! Very nice
It's not just U.S. and Japanese scope firms who are having the lenses in their products made in China, some European firms are getting their lenses from China too. I'm looking at you Zeiss and Meopta.
I have wondered about Zeiss. I had a Zeiss some years ago and it was a pretty good scope but nothing like a Schmidt & Bender. Zeiss has different lines and I suspect their more affordable Conquest line is definitely made in China. I hope their Hensoldt scopes are still made of top of the line glass (Zeiss owns Hensoldt). Thanks for watching and posting this info!
Good reviews. Thank you.
You are welcome. And thank you for watching and posting.
The light transmission of the kahles 318 is 95.2. Also my kahles out performs my nightforce atacr 416 especially in low light and wooded areas. The kahles has a brighter sight picture and a good eye box. My nightforce sight picture makes colors look more vibrant = reds look reder, yellows look more yellow, greens look greener and browns look browner. That being said my nightforce is still my baby but kahles edges out nightforce by 2 hairs.
Thank you very much for posting this. I have not had a chance to actually use a Nightforce scope and only looked at them in sporting goods shops. I recently purchased another Schmidt and Bender PMII 3-20X for my Barrett rifle. SB has continued to advance their technology it is even better than the PMII on my Ruger Precision Rifle. Incredible scopes (all these). Thanks again for posting your observations on Kahles and Nightforce. Good stuff.
Hi the S&B 5-25x56 PMII in Mils has 26 Mils of total adjustment about 104 moa. I guess compared to the Kahles (in milrads) it’s about the same internal adjustment.
Yes, that is about right. The Kahles uses MIL also and has max 30 MIL elevation and max 20 MIL windage. In MOA that is 102 / 69 MOA.
I am very curious about the S&B PMII 3-20. That looks like a really excellent scope. Have you seen it?
no. Internal adjustment on the 26 Mil 5-25 PMIIs is 34 Mils. Thats why they need 45 MOA bases
I want to get my hands on a march, but you can't get to see one
That is pretty much the case with all premium scopes. I have never seen a March either but have heard so many good things about them. I would not hesitate to purchase one if I were looking for a new scope. Thanks for watching and posting.
I’m wanting to compete in long range shooting competitions in my state. One of my friend recommended the Kahles 3181i scope what is your opinion on that?
Hello Jimmy, The Kahles 318i is a scope I own and the one used in this video. It is an excellent scope. I would also recommend the S&B PMII 3-20. That will likely come in with a higher price tag though.
@@sdkweber My price point is about $3000 so I probably should stick with Kahles. How much for the S&B PMII 3-20?
@@JIMMY-sz6vo Your not really compromising with a Kahles. Excellent scope. S&B PMII 3-20 starts at $4,800 and goes up to over $6K based on reticle and finish. Yes, I think the S&B is truly top of the line, but is it that much better in terms of price paid? I am not sure I can justify that to you. Stick with your price point and choice of Kahles scope. You will not be disappointed.
@@sdkweber thanks for your input on the subject.
@@JIMMY-sz6vo You are welcome.
Do the ultra brite have the illumination on the parallax adjustment dial
Hello George, The illumination for the Schmidt & Bender PMII is on the left side of the ocular lens.
On my newer short dot, it is on the left side turret. In neither case is the illumination built into another dial.
I hope this helps.
@@sdkweber I own a high power 5 by 45! That boil near the ocular lens is a pain for mounting positions
S&B and American optics are #1 Sir
I agree. S&B is top of the line. Thank you for watching and posting.
What would your advice be on choosing the right reticle when you buy a premium scope like the S&B?
Hello Dutch Diver,
Good question. I insist on a 1st focal plane scope and that then gets you into a certain subset of reticles in S&B. Second, I think an illuminated reticle is important. You would use it all the time, but when you need it, it will be there for you. My PMII 4-16 has a P3L reticle. Not much going on in that reticle but clear holds for both elevation and windage in MIL or MOA. The P4 reticle looks pretty appealing too but you know, in practice it is really difficult to range a target with a P4 reticle. I rely on my previous drawn/identified range card or my laser range finder. My Kahles has an MSR reticle. Very cool looking reticle but in reality very rarely used "stuff". The horus reticles are far too busy and cluttered.
So, I like a nice clean reticle with clear subtensions in either MIL or MOA so I can do a quick hold rather than dialing.
My application is not for F-class or benchrest competition but to be able to quickly place a precision shot onto a target in the field. If your application is more for competition then something like a horus reticle could serve you very well.
Thanks for the post. I hope this helps you and thank you for watching.
BTW, most companies offer reticles very similar to the S&B reticles I mentioned above.
@@sdkweber thank you for the explanation!
@@dutchdiver5323 You are welcome. Good luck on your search. You won't regret getting one of the top shelf scopes.
Any idea where swarovski glass is made?
Swarovski ownes Kahles. From what I have read, Swarovski scopes are produced entirely in Europe also. You will find Swarovski scopes fairly commonly in sporting goods stores like Cabela's. I have looked at these several times and while they are a good optic, they are not of the same high quality as Kahles or S&B.
@@sdkweber Thank you for the quick reply i was thinking of picking up a spotting scope from Swarovski
@@spotbotgamingchannel Yeah, Swarovski spotting scopes are excellent and certainly some of the best out there. Perhaps the best.
Ummm interesting observations…. I was under the impression there were two glass factory most scopes were using, one in Japan and one in Europe.
Thought that Chinese glass was reserved for low end lines… scopes under 2K
I think it’s funny that you’re referencing these scope as the type used for extreme precision and long range, then use a scope like the Kahles 3-18 which is know for its extremely compact size. Not something that would be the best performer if those were your goals. 😂
Also, if you really think American companies can produce a scope with glass that can rival those European brands you just might want to look through the 6-36 Gen 3 Razor…. That glass is better than some of those European companies.
I have looked at the Vortex Razer and it is a pretty good scope. It is far too heavy however and the glass is not as good as S&B or Kahles. I realize some of this comes down to personal preferences but I am trying to provide quantitative results to help others chose a premium rifle scope.
Regarding compact or short rifle scope lengths there is very little effect when you are dealing with premium scopes. All other things being equal, a shorter scope will have shorter eye relief and a generally smaller eye box. But shooting long range is certainly not hindered.
How is zeiss compared to them?
I had a Zeiss a while back and sold it. It really cannot compare to S&B or Kahles as Zeiss has unfortunately cheapened up their quality in the past decade or so. I believe they were bought out by a conglomerate. The Zeiss/Hensholdt scopes are still excellent though.
@@sdkweber oh damn how about Swarovski?
@@kristijanmedved6066 Swarovski makes a good scope but not the level of what I consider a premium scope. Swarovski is a large company and a number of years ago they purchased Kahles. Kahles remains their top of the line rifle scope. Both Swarovski and Zeiss are good scopes and better than the scopes you are going to find on the shelves at sporting goods stores.
I’m sorry but wouldn’t a more sterile test be for an assistant to hang a target whose information is unknown to you?
That would have been a very nice blind test and a good idea. I will tuck that away for future videos. Thanks for watching and posting.
@@sdkweber if you want any more ideas there are some videos by Max Ordnance Academy from ~7 years ago. They built a completely sterile testing rig that allowed the to test for recoil tolerance and magnification adjustment affect on point of aim. They had a photo cell set up that would measure the power required to pass x number of lumens through the scope there by giving a value for clarity and then they’d do a box test. I’ve been trying to build my own setup but have 3 grammar school aged children and not enough money. I actually did ask the guys if I could buy their set up but the builder/owner of the equipment was not interested. The scope industry especially needs some quantifying and normalizing there’s too much subjectivity. I’m looking at an $8000 (a PM2) scope and having to wonder why; if I can hit out to a mile with my presumably POS Bushnell (that I bought when I was a poor (I’m 45 and my eyes ain’t perfect)) where’s the other $7000 going? is it really that much better?
@@charleshetrick3152 I still own some old Redfield scopes and newer Leupold, Nikon, and Vortex (and other) scopes. The quality of the Schmidt and Bender (and Kahles) is real. That does not mean you will not be able to shoot well with a Leupold or Bushnell but instead you will likely find the premium scope optics are brighter, clearer, and track true for long range shooting. I am sold on Schmidt & Bender and currently own two with another on the way.
I don't do many videos on scopes but instead focus on precision reloading but thanks for the link. I will check it out.
@@sdkweber I’d have linked the videos properly but TH-cam deletes those straight away. For my 50 BMG I did pony up for a hensoldt, they don’t make it anymore, it’s a 72mm objective and ~18” long and was well worth the money. They make a “tactical” scope in the same price range as S&B which is rumored to be pretty awesome. Hensoldt is apparently a subsidiary of Zeiss optics whereas zeiss is more hunting/target scopes hensoldt has all the MRAD reticles etc.
@@charleshetrick3152 The Hensholdt scope remain very good scopes. I bet it does well on your 50 BMG.
Doing a tracking test with both of these scopes would be interesting to see
That is a good idea Marshall. I know Snipers Hide has done a lot of tracking tests of premium optics like these and you might find some data there also. Thanks for watching and for the idea.
@@sdkweber a tracking test would bring you a lot of traffic since you are a credible source... please consider it
@@MaineOutdoorsChannel I am considering it... plus waiting for spring to arrive! :)
Lol....the most expensive scope in the cheapest rings 😆
The Vortex Match rings are not cheap rings. Quite good in face.
looking at the back of your head while you talk isn't helpful.... a through the scope camera is a worthy investment.
I believe they’re made in Japan not China, big difference when you’re talking quality and worksmanship
Which scopes are you referring to that are made in Japan? Nightforce?
@@sdkweberI believe some of the nightforce, primary arms, vortex higher end scopes, specifically the lpvo’s I was reading about are all made in the same factory in Japan.
@@user-mw9yh4cu2i That could be. I have been told the glass for many scopes is made in China to specifications set by the company. The parts are then shipped to the US for assembly. I am not certain though. Other companies may be sourcing from Japan. I agree the quality from Japan will be much better.
My 5.5-22x50mm Nightforce was made in Japan.
@@Jarheads4Yeshua Thanks for confirming that. As you saw, there was some discussion about where Nightforce is made. I am glad you responded.
March Optics are a Japanese brand and quite good also.