Comet Tank vs Tiger Tank | April 1945 | Tank Duel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2021
- In April 1945, the 11th Armoured Division established a bridgehead over the River Aller in Northern Germany near the town of Essel. Among the units in the bridgehead were the 4 King's Shropshire Light Infantry and the 3 Royal Tank Regiment, the latter of whom were equipped with Comet tanks. As the British sought to expand the bridgehead, the Comet tanks of the 3 R.T.R. became embroiled in a day-long tank duel with a German Tiger tank, callsign F01. Using Official Histories and archival documents, this video breaks down one of the final engagements involving British and German armour of the campaign.
This video is dedicated to the memory of George Wane, 4 King's Shropshire Light Infantry, 11th Armoured Division.
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Music licensed from Artlist.io
- Reflection by Oliver Michael
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NO PART OF THIS VIDEO MAY BE REPRODUCED IN ANY FORM (REACTIONS OR RE-UPLOADED) WITHOUT THE PRIOR PERMISSION OF THE CREATOR
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What's your favourite tank from any period? For me, its the Sherman Firefly, although the Challenger 2 and Pershing aren't too far behind!
Renault FT 😳
I mean, whomever says something else besides the tiger should get Polaned.
Any of the British cruiser tanks from ww2 like the crusader, Cromwell and comet.
Not going to lie, the Leopard A1A2 has taken the place of my favorite tank othen then the Tiger 1
Also Love your videos!!
M1A2 for sure, best looking at least :D
This is the first first-hand account of the Comet in action I have ever read. There are more photographs of the Comet in this short piece than I have ever seen before. Having restored and driven both Cromwell & Comet, this was an excellent 9 minutes of military history. More power to your elbow! Superb
Check out Tank Commander by Bill Close who commanded B Squadron ( I think ) of 3rd RTR . I have the Kindle edition which I’ve just finished reading.
Good kill for Sgt. Harding and his crew. Can only imagine what that must have done for the moral of 3 Royal. And with the Hawkers neutralizing those 88’s and that halftrack, Brits went to work that day. Well done.
Sometimes I put off watching these videos because often times when they're finished I know I won't find such quality anywhere else. I savor these videos. I really do.
Do you know of Drachinifel?
This plays like a script for a horror movie...
Monster shows up, kills hero's friends, hero's story isn't believed, monster comes back and kills even more, climax of hunting and killing the monster, and the hero is awarded at end
Have you scene movie White Tiger?
The Tiger was a monster, indeed.
I consider myself an Anglo file and so, love hearing about the British contributions to the war. Thank you.
Tiger F01 The last surviving Tiger of Kampfgruppe Fehrmann which was composed of tank school instructors and their training tanks. F01was damaged by a PIAT early on but was sent back for repairs. Now commanded by Unteroffizier Franzen, Tiger F01 went back to the front and slugged it out with the British Comets. Franzen and his crew managed to knock out a couple of Comets before their tank was disabled. All of the Tiger F01 crews were able to escape back to the tank school.
Franzen commented that he was thankfull to the British because they didn't "Besa" down his fleeing crew. British gentlemen - even i 1945. I think all of the knocked-out Comet crews survived, too. The sources seems to vary regarding one or two Comets knocked out.
@@TTTT-oc4eb it says one Comet was lost , an armoured car , and several other vehicles.
This channel deserves to have so much more subscribers!
I nearly commented that again myself before seeing your own. I know Mark Felton does a great job but LFE does it just aswell if not better. Makes no sense why he has such a small subscriber base?..
Ok Ill subscribe! Fair dincum stop twisting my arm!
Some of the older videos have well over a million views, 165k subs - it's growing :-)
The video is put together really well but for me it's the accent that ruins it a bit. "Ferd royal tank regiment" 🤦♂️
Very good video. Nice to see that you sourced contemporary war diaries. Also that you've got good, relevant, pictures. Thank you.
Another brilliant video. Respect.
hear me out, but the life of Cpt Tom Moore,
ok
go on
I thick his troop gave tank support to a commando unit in Burma if I'm not getting mixed up with another story I read
Very well researched buddy! I love seeing M-10 Tank Destroyers
This channel is just awesome. More like this please.
Great video - thanks for putting it up and telling the story of this “small action.” It might have been small to most generals or historians, but to the men who were there it must have been terrifying to come face-to-face with a Tiger.
Especially when you see an AP round bounce off of it.
@@lhkraut - that must have put the fear of god into them.
@@28pbtkh23 you know it!
It was pretty scary when that British guy said that seeing the Tiger coming down the road was he most scariest thing in his life.
I mean he was in a Comet, the latest British tank. What about the poor buggers in Churchills and Shermans.
But they got it right, in the end! I'm assuming many knew, the uselessness , of trying to knock out a Tiger,from the front?
@@steve55sogood16 to be fair the comets gun shouldn't have much of a problem penetrating a tiger from the front (in theory a shermans 75mm can do it), but they probably didn't want to stay still and fire again while they have an 88mm pointing at them
@@joelackers5104 Are you sure about that ?
Sherman 75mm couldn' t knock out a Tiger at point blank range ( a hedge between a Sherman and Tiger in Normandy)
The Sherman drawed up to a hedge only to see an 88 cannon peep through the hedge at them.
The Sherman got 4 rounds off before the Tiger got it's first round off.
Tiger undamaged. Sherman turret sliced in half
@@g8ymw with HVAP ammo the us rated the 75mm gun to penetrate 116mm of armour at 30 degrees(front of a tiger is mostly 100mm with some areas of 120mm so would relatively easily penetrate) but there are many many variables, that specific sherman was most likely firing different ammo and if the tiger is at any sort of angle the sherman cannot penetrate. But the point still stands that the comet with the 77mm gun should have no problems going through the front of a tiger 1 considering the 17pdr already had a reputation as a reliable cat killer.
@@joelackers5104 How come that Brit Sherman couldn't?
Also that gun was primarily for lobbing high explosive shells not tin opening
An excellent video, very well put together. thank you
Can you imagine being a Tank crew knowing that you tank is no match with a Tiger or a Panther , yet still going into combat with them !!! . And they did and still won , brave Men :-)
Even worse when you fire and your rounds just bounce off
A British Firefly Sherman with it's 17 pounder gun could knock out a Panther or Tiger from any angle and at virtually any distance tanks typically engaged one another on the western front. Who destroyed who was basically a matter of who saw who first and got off the first well aimed shot. The myth of German tanks being invunerable to all aliied tanks is just that.....A MYTH.
@@toddbradford4700 The 17 pdr was dangerous to any German tanks, but not from any angle, no. A Tiger angled at 45 degrees had an effective front armor of nearly 200mm, too much even for a 17 pdr. British test against a captured also confirmed that the 17 pdr rounds had a tendency to shatter when they hit the Tiger at an acute angle. The turret front was also a tough nut to crack; mantlet + backup armor = 140 - 225mm effective armor. The Panther's glacis with slope was about 180mm effective armor - difficult for the 17 pdr. The turret was much more vulnerable.
@@toddbradford4700 That wont stop wehraboos perpetuating it though lmao.
In this video, a Comet took out a Tiger. I guess you didn't watch
They just had to use tea-making terms for their diaries...
...and I saw to my consternation that the enemy were pouring the tea first before adding milk!"
I wish you'd been there, looking down the barrel of that Tiger - and being smart about those that did.
Thank you for this. I always wondered if Comets ever got to engage Tigers.
Amazing video as always, great to watch and learn about the last tank battle between these 2 countries of ww2. 💖👍
Great work, love it, please continue.
Interesting vid.
Thanks for posting.
Great video thank you 👌
Not one for armored duels, but it's interesting to see a hole punched through the fabled Tiger tank like it's nothing. Keep up the good work.
I don't know whever it was a tiger or a panther but apparently the first time the British faced it there was a 16 pounder on the back of a lorry that took a pot shot at it and it burst into flames.
@@ollyclass It would have been a 17 pounder. The Germans used to call the Sherman "Tommy Cookers" to detract from their own taks brewing up.
@@ollyclass That was a 6 pounder, there was no such gun as a 16 pounder. plus it would have been too large to mount on a lorry, same goes for a 17 pounder.
@@ollyclass That was a 6 pound anti tank gun taking out a Tiger.
The shot hit the base of the turret jamming the turret from moving. The crew bailed out. The Tiger was taken back to the UK and studied in detail. This Tiger is the reason the British modified the Sherman to take the 17pdr, creating the Firefly, as they realised a 6pdr couldn't really cut it anymore.
This is the only working Tiger in existance and is at Bovington Tank museum.
th-cam.com/video/kFQd8TYt6Ew/w-d-xo.html
It is a round that went through the side of the Tiger. Armour was thinner there and on the rear. That's where you attacked them if you could. If you had a 17 pounder you could go for the front armour but it would be whoever shot first that carried the day.
Michael Wittmann's 007 Tiger was doubtless killed by a regular old Sherman with a 75mm cannon, as the round went through the rear engine deck/vent area on its left rear quarter. Only one in four or five Shermans in Normandy were Fireflies. Wittmann's Tiger was only about 450 ft from the Shermans when he died.
Great research on small unit action. New to channel
Great video
Just happened to be watching some of your other videos
Good stuff!
Can you do a video on the GSG9 rescuing hostages from Lufthansa flight 181 please, I would really love that. Keep up the good work mate, I really love this channel and all your amazing content.
Yep 👍 from Perth Australia & New subscriber 🙃
I soon as I was able, I would’ve looked up the chap at Regimental HQ that had casually dismissed my initial radio report of Tiger F01 and “educated” him on the reality of things....
I have such good memories of playing with the Cromwell, just like the Stug it provides perfect cover being so low, while being faster and smaller than most heavier opponents.
A good video and great use of the maps.
It shows what a good crew of the Tiger would achieve and why they were so feared.
Even from the side ( the Hollywood weak point to kill all Tigers) you can see this first round went through but didn't disable it. That must have been a very stressful few seconds before they got the second and final shot in the Tiger.
They were lucky the Germans hadn't placed support infantry down that side road. All these men from both side have my deepest respect. I can only imagine how it was for them and are pleased and thankful I have never had to experience it myself.
it is somewhat of a myth that you would have to shoot a tiger in the side for instance the QF 77mm HV gun on the comet could easily pierce the upper front plate and lower front plate on the tiger
If you watch and read the memories of Lieutenant LANGDON HE CLEARLY SAYS HE SHOT AT THE TIGER WITH HIS 77 MM COMET GUN AT 600 YARDS WITH NO EFFECT AT ALL AND HE USED ARMOR PIERCING SHEL'S .DID YOU GET THAT PART OF A VETERAN TANK COMMANDER SAYING IT CLEAR ? THOSE ARE HIS MEMORIES ,COULD YOU PROOF HIM WRONG ?@@SvensHistoryLab
@@SvensHistoryLab absolutely .
Hi, superb video! How do you animate the graphic parts of your vids?
For the graphics I use Adobe After Effects, sometimes Photoshop 👍
Can I make a request? I'd like to see you talk about the Marine Raiders and their operations on Makin Atoll and Tulagi.
Great stuff.
I think the crew of that Tiuger were lucky the AP round from the Comet didn't ignite anything on its trajectory. If it had ignited ammunition, the temperature would have gone from 25 degrees to 2500 degrees pretty darn quick....as it was the 5 crewmen escaped, and with luck are either still living or died of old age.
This is very strange as at those ranges the Comets 17lbr short main gun is more than capable of penetrating the Tigers frontal Armour even firing standard APCR ammunition.
The Comet did not have a 17 pdr. It looks like one because the 76.2 gun uses a shortened 17 pdr barrel. It’s rounds are shorter than 17 pdr rounds, have less propellant and lower penetration.
And still being able to take out this beast.
Yeah I'm a little puzzled, maybe put it down to reputation or embellishment.
@@Spaced92 deployed to more tactical advantageous position is my guess.
@@Dalesmanable still enough to deal with front armor of Tiger 1 .
Good story that
Cheers
Interesting and w. Excellent photography job enabling viewers to better understand what the orator was describing. Class A research project!!! Special thanks to veteran tankers/civilians resistance groups. Sharing personal information/combat experiences making this documentary more authentic and possible. Fighting/perishing/surviving knowing certain death/debilitating wounds were often possible. Yet still advanced forward regardless of the consequences. That's true grit style determination to succeed!!! By 1945 any chance for Germany to push back the advancing allies. Shortages of supplies slowly crippled the armed forces on both fronts.
Great video! I just have 1 question, what does the "F" stands for in the overall numeration of the tank?
Its not of standard numeration (which would be 3 digits for company / platoon / vehicle). Instead this Tiger belonged to Kampfgruppe Fehrmann (Name of the leader of the Kampfgruppe) and all Tigers attached to this unit started by the letter F - the following digits were just the number of the vehicle. As a side note, all Fehrmann Tigers were basically Frankentigers, put together using parts from multiple different Tanks. So you have e.g. F01 was a late model hull with an early model Turret.
@@RoBlackW thank you very much for the explanation, really appreciated
@@joaquingarciameschio9582 you're welcome... :)
@@RoBlackW very good mate, good explanation.
A great account...
No mention of range of engagement but it seems odd that he thought that he couldn't penetrate the armour of a Tiger 1, since the 77mm could in theory penetrate 110mm at 1000m with normal APCBC.
Favorite tank? Well I don't every tank ever made but I do have a fondness to the Sherman Firefly.
I remember downloading World of Tanks cause they had put it brand new into the game.
Yeah the British Sherman was the only good Sherman. Obviously the Americans were very restricted but the British made the Sherman in to a proper tank.
Yeah! That 17 pounder long gun was wicked.
I play WOT. The issue i see is that in game, you are vs tanks that never battled each other in real life. Tiger vs Tiger, Sherman vs Sherman, Cavalier vs KV-I S, T-28 vs KV-I, etc. Although, the Tiger I and Comet are both tier VII.
The Comet main gun, which was comparable or slightly better than the Firefly gun, was quite capable of defeating the Tiger frontal armour.
That's interesting, I'm from there around & know the place near Essel.
Hi, I think this video is great! If you dont mind, I would like to ask for your permission to share this video to the other website in China. For the embarrassing reason that TH-cam is blocked from accessing in China. I will give sources of the original website. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Nice tactics to outflank the tiger. Lest we forget
My favourite tank is the Centurion. Although there are many other I like too.
There are many other tanks like it,, but this one is mine. Sorry, for some reason, reading your comment brought that line from Full Metal Jacket to mind. Not being a c$%#. I like the Centurion,too.
it's very easy to look back at this and think they should have just stuck it out when the tiger first appeared, since we know that really a 17 pounder can penetrate the front of a tiger 1, but things are different on the ground.
This kinda reminds me of then the first tigers in north africa lost to some Churchill's. People at the time arn't going to know in depth the effectiveness of their and the enemies vehicles, and especially not when they're new. The tiger crew in north africa may have been told their tank was great, but they're fighting an enemy they know has very thick armour and they know has a very good anti tank gun, they're not going to really realise what advantage they have.
It's the same thing here. The crews may have been told they have a good gun, but they're fighting the infamous tiger, and they just watched their first shot do nothing. Of cause they're gonna bug out.
Comets gun wasnt as good as a 17pdr from what iv just read but i was still surprised to hear it bounced off the front of the tiger, maybe they hit it at an angle.
@@eraldorh yeh its not quite as good but it should be plenty for just a tiger 1.
But yeh theres plenty of things that can mess up a shot irl. Plenty of places you can hit where the armour happens to be angled, and lots of small areas where overlapping components makes thick armour
Very good narrative on a small encounter which must have happened hundreds of times on the advance to Berlin . Not many men got to tell the tale of meeting a Tiger in the woods ! K
Does anyone knows which comet was Sergeant Harding's ride?"cobra", "celerity" or the "crusader"? Thanks!
Amazing how one tank can cause three brigades to go around it and for an experienced tank commander to say it was the scariest experience of his life.
I would love to see a video about the last stand of a KV-1 crew at the battle of Raseiniai
At the range Lt. Harding fired his AP round at the front of the Tiger, it should have had penetrated the armor. Tests on the 77mm gun proved that its penetrative ability was in excess of the 110mm Tigers front plates.
My theory is that most likely the gun was loaded with an HE round as the troop was supporting infantry and had encountered large parties of enemy troops and were expecting to encounter more of them, hence the HE round up the spout.
In the heat of battle would anyone have thought to check and see ?? Probably not.
Brave men. Clever manoeuvre to destroy the Tiger.
Thanks that was a great telling! I can only imagine what it would have been like to see a tiger coming over the hill! And the awe if it were accompanied with other tigers!!
That would be a brown pants day for sure!
I'm a little sceptical as to the validity of this account. An AP round from a 17-pounder could theoretically penetrate the frontal armour of a Tiger 2 at short range , so should go through a Tiger 1 frontal armour like a knife through butter.
Could have been that the shot missed instead of bouncing off, or that they fired the wrong type of round. Memory being what it is they wouldn't necessarily put it together correctly after the fact.
Please do a story on Captain Sir Tom Moore
I can not imagine the fear of seeing a Tiger head on and bouncing an AP round off of it. Then the anger felt when RHQ tells you they do not believe you. I am betting the person who said that rarely, if ever, rode into the unknown at the tip of the spear.
RHQ would very much be in the thick of the fighting. And having an AP round bounce off a Tiger, when fired from a Comet, would very much be unlikely. The Comet had more than enough performance to trounce a Tiger 1.
@@iatsd of course it could beat the Tiger, except from head on. Or did this officer lie?
@@lhkraut You've never looked at the performance figures for the 77mm, have you?
It could defeat the Tiger frontally. Several instances of it doing so within 11th Armd, as it happens. With APDS it would go through the front of a Tiger at 2000 metres.
The officer wold have been trained on the round: he *knew* it *could* go through. It may well not have in that instance due to angle, etc, but it certainly *could* pen if it hit properly. His saying it *couldn't* is either a lie or a simple untruth to cover/explain his withdrawal.
@@iatsd damn, you believe he lied. It was not a round that had a 100% success rate. I am not going to go back and watch the video, but I believe they said that they had to be within a certain distance for the round to be effective. There is no reason for this to continue. I believe his story, and apparently you do not. That should be the end of it.
@@lhkraut Yes, I believe he wasn't talking the truth. He was factually incorrect in his statement (He said couldn't, not unlikely or simply didn't), he would have have been trained otherwise, and the 11th Armd had encountered Tigers before with the Comet and dealt with them (granted, not his regt). I choose to believe the simpler explanation.
This is detailed in Tank Commander by Bill Close , which I finished reading yesterday.
My grandfather was in the KSLI in WW1. They described themselves as the Kings Silly Little Idiots.
British humour at it's best. Others are RASC - Run away, somebody's comming; RAMC - Rob all my comrades and REME - Royal engineers, minus education. On the rum jars, it stated SRD - Service rum, diluted.....
Surprising that an AP from the 77mm "bounced" off the frontal armour. At 500m the AP should have gone right through the 100m front plate or even the 110m turret. One can only guess that either it wasn't a clean strike or perhaps it wasn't an actual AP round. Considering they were supporting infantry in a heavily wooded area, it is more likely they were loaded with HE, coupled with the fact the crew were dismounted at the time, the Commander would have slid into the gunners seat, lined up the sights and fired whatever round the gun had been loaded with prior to the crew dismounting for tea.....
Wow scary days and heroes all!
Please do a vid on the SBS and SFSG hostage rescue of Stephen Farrell from the Taliban
The 77 mm of The Comet APBC round if a clean hit should pierce the front of a Tiger 1 but I guess his at an oblique angle which did happen..However it made plenty of sense to back off and re-deploy to a more tactically advantageous position as engaging a Tiger front on unless you had to was rarely a good move.
"Yes headquarters? We've been engaged by Tigers."
"Ah yes, we've gotten reports of Tigers in the area. We consider them unfounded."
"Tell that to the one in front of me."
Great content! Thank you for this excellent Podcast.
SEMPER FI!! 🇬🇧GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!🇬🇧 GOD BLESS AMERICA!🇺🇸😎👊🏻
Tigers were part of Kampfgruppe Schulze, the CO of the 5 tanks strong Tiger detachment was 1st Lt. Fehrmann
army-sgt-joe-ronnie-hooper Would be nice to see this on your channel
I have never understood why we made such little use, relatively, of the British 17 pounder gun which was every bit as good as the German 88mm
The Tank Museum staff and Chieftain walk around series go over it if you're interested. It's a bit dispiriting, or was to me anyhow.
No British tank could take the big 17 pdr apart from the limited-production Challenger and Archer tank destroyer. It could (just) fit into the US Sherman (Firefly) and M10 (Achilles). Although quite many Fireflies (more than 2000) and Achilles were produced during the war, few were avalable at the opening stages of Normandy campaign, only 64 as of June 11th. It took the Centurion to find a proper British tank to put the 17n pdr in.
Its interesting how in many reports of contact with German vehicles, their turret movements are described as "slowly" swinging their guns around at a target. I know many late war German vehicles did without any assisted turret traverse mechanisms, but I didn't know of any of the "big cats" having such budget cuts. Was there a reason for this?
I know in the Tiger the speed of the turret is dependent on how much power the engine is running so my guess when they described the turret as slowly moving is that the crew didn't put too much power on the engine or didn't use the engine for ambush purposes
Late reply, but the German tanks generally have longer turret rotation times than their British counterparts. A Churchill with its electric rotation active could turn its turret 360 degrees in 15 seconds.
It seems that 77HV gun was far inferior to the 17pdr, because as far as I know, 17pdr had no problems to penetrate frontal armour of Tiger at 1000 metres.
My father was a tanker 3 rd armored division 33 battalion,got shot out of 3 Sherman's and got in the 4th.
These brave men are from my neck of the woods
Shropshire
4:40 The guy reporting numerous tanks being misreported as Tigers was not wrong. There were TEN TIMES as many Panzer IV's, which resembled Tigers but smaller, produced as Tigers, and yet there were more reported encounters with Tigers than with P IV's. No doubt MANY of those reports were just wrong.
so, Tiger F01 was alone, without infantry support? how did they get there?
Drove?
@@woodybenjam boy that answers my question and then some. You see, I’ve always been under the impression tanks were crew-served weapons, and were carried into battle and assembled as needed. But they can drive? Who would’ve thunk?
Gods grace made the first 88mm missed and clouded the judgement of the commander for not taking the comet out first.
Wittman and his crew would not have missed with the AP shell ! The Allied Tank Commander needed new underpants and to wash his bum after the surprise of seeing the Tiger coming towards him.
A pity the speaker does'nt speak a bit slower and clearer, it's hard on foreign listeners
If you notice, there are actually subtexts.....
I thought the Comet had a 17pdr gun? Though it could penetrate Tiger armor
Just goes to show that, whilst the Tiger was no joke, it wasn't undefeatable either.
I agree but a 1v1 frontal attack against a Tiger is a death sentence for any allied tank crew
The Tiger needed to be watching it flanks.
5.22. ant eye tank guns..... ant eye, what are they ?
Centurion set the mark for tanks after 1945, for me
My question is, if the tiger was front on how did the 17 pounder AP shell (76.2mm) not penetrate?
Hit at bad angle deflections did occur . May have been an HE round.
I thought comets were supposed to have a gun that was similar to the 17pdr which is able to cut through a tigers front armor like butter.
Shorter barrel on the comet, so it has a lower muzzle velocity. Have a look at the barrel length on a firefly and then compare it to the comet
The 77mm should get through the Tiger's frontal armour, in theory. But at 500m the penetration is about 110mm vs the Tiger's frontal armour of 100mm, so it's going to be a hit hit-and-miss depending on the location hit, angle, etc.
It's about the same the other way round - the Comet's frontal armour was up to 100mm thick and the 88mm gun's penetration was about 110mm at 500 yards (there are many different sources for armour penetration which vary significantly so it's hard to compare with confidence). APDS ammunition for the 77mm pushed up the penetration a lot but I'm not sure how much was available, or how often it was used, and there were issues with accuracy.
@@jrd33 APDS from the 77mm HV on the comet had 256mm of penetration at 500m.
That'll usually go through most parts of a Tiger 1 even at high angles.
The comet in this video most likely could've shot the armor above the vision port or around the MG port which is marginally thicker. Also the Mantlets pretty thick on the Tiger aswell.
Or they could've been using APC or APCBC which had little over 150mm at 500m. Still can go through a Tiger 1, just less likely of course.
are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?. in the photos with the commentary it is definitely a first generation tiger tank , first encounter in 1942 in Tunisia and 1 was knocked out by a British 6 pounder anti tank gun and that tank is the tiger tank in the film fury
Tiger F01 was a strange, "impossible" hybrid, a late production Tiger with some old features, like the commander cupola. Possible the only Tiger with this combination?
The Chieftain for me.
just find a good hill to breakdown on, and then defend it
So lets's just park our tanks here on a road and have brew up, nothing's going to happen so we won't bother covering any approaches. Villiers Bocage, rinse and repeat.
Hmmm well Villers Bocage would still likely have happened even without a brew up. Even the British tanks that fired and hit WittmannsTiger, at least two Cromwells and a Firefly, all failed to penetrate it. They weren't all caught napping, and the half tracks and Stuarts on the road outside, that Wittmann engaged first, wouldn't have been able to do anything against his Tiger anyway even if they were ready.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Tiger's were vulnerable to side and rear hits from most of those tanks mentioned, that they were virtually indestructible is a myth. All a couple of tanks had to do was take up ambush positions to the approaches, that was standard practice in most armies.
Dead on to the side yes (though still 90mm effective side armour due to its Brinell Hardness). Even if you are on the flank yet still angled you will have problems because the side plates will be angled. The Stuarts outside Villers were to its front. They still wouldn't have taken the Tiger out even if they were ready. Nor would the half tracks and Loyd carriers, so the damage outside villers would still have been done. A road block mass of wreckage and a halt to the advance.
Then when Wittmann went into the town itself. The two Cromwells Wittmann met were alert and ready but again Wittmann was frontal to them and his Tiger quickly knocked them out. The second Cromwell actually hit WittmannsTiger twice supposedly but the shots bounced off.
So really, nothing would have changed. Only the lead elements were drinking tea. Those in the town were not. They still didn't knock Wittmann out. Only after he already did what he needed to do was his Tiger immobilised, supposedly by an anti tank gun.
@@lyndoncmp5751 That's may have what happened but it all comes down to the correct tactical use and disposition of your AFV's. Stringing them out along a road does not qualify, particularly not when there has been no recce and enemy assets and locations are unknown.
True, but don't forget, the Tigers were already there and waiting. They bivouacked the night in the lane parallel to the road out of Villers and could see and hear it all.
The main road, going by the pictures of the destruction, was lined with trees and bushes etc so for most of it the British vehicles couldn't get off the road. I believe there was a recon done before but it didn't spot anything. Wittmann's 6 Tigers were camouflaged out of sight. They wouldn't have been seen.
They couldn't have ambushed Wittmann as he was aware of what they were doing outside the town, though obviously he couldn't see what they were doing inside the town.
The British thought they had gone around the outside of Panzer Lehr and that there was nothing at Villers. With a huge slice of bad luck, Wittmann's company only arrived there the evening before. Had the British advanced through Villers only one day earlier there would have been nothing there.
i have thought the 17 pounder from a comet tank would have killed the tiger tank mk 1 with a frontal hit, surprised it did not. perhaps the German tank was lucky, because the 17 pounder was probably a better anti tank gun than the 88mm on the mk1 tiger ( well in the pictures it was a mk 1 tiger ) a king tiger I could understand having a problem penetrating frontal armour
I thought the 77mm, a shortened shell version of the 17pdr, but with similar KE would have pierced the 102mm flat plate of a Tiger 1. Also, the Tiger 1 production ended in mid 1944 in favor of the Konigs Tiger which first appeared in the Normandy campaign with the initial round mantle turret.
@@tonymanero5544 yes , precisely, that is what I am saying, it should have stopped the tiger 1 pictured in the video
You are both assuming that the round hit the armour perfectly straight on.
no, I did say the tiger might have been lucky ,in my first comment@@woodybenjam
We invented the Tank but by 1939 ours were hopelessly outgunned, by 1945 this was more or less the same case,
we forget how many Comet, Crusader, Valentine and Churchill crews bravely battled against all odds.........We must
never forget these all but forgotten men...............
Not even slightly true. In 1939 the Germans were using 37mm guns at best and invaded Poland with mainly Panzer 1 and Panzer 2 which had machine guns and 20mm cannon respectively. The Panzer 3 only has a 37mm at that time and the panzer 4 a howitzer. The Matilda had heavier armour than any of them and a 40mm gun. That's why it was so effective in North Africa. The problem was 1 quantity 2 communication as at the beginning of WWII many British tanks still did not have radios and all German tanks did and 3 tactics. Also we were using 57mm (6 pounders) by 1940 in the Valentine.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Really, well all that heavy armour we had as you point out was so effective we had to leave it in the fields around Dunkirk and in North Africa, well how many Shermans did Monty have and how many M3 Le Grants did he have along with the Shermans......What did the Nazi's call British Tanks.......ummhh I think History proves one right and one wrong or perhaps it was just our brave crews who were not up to it.........really....??
@@simonsouthgate8374 How many tanks did we have in France? Do you even know? As for Shermans in North Africa just how many do you think we had? Or are you only going from Wiki? Cite your sources. Also read my post again I said NOTHING about tank crews.
You don't need great tanks when you have air supremacy, plus the logistics of the allies effectively increased the number of tanks as many knocked out tanks where back in action within 24hrs, furthermore tanks where rarely used against tanks and where primarily used as infantry support, not to mention the amount of AT guns the allied forces had.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Yes I am going from Wiki......we were so superior as all the old archive footage shows, as all the testament proves.............oh and what was the numerical advantage in Shermans and others that Monty had to have...umhh..
Anyways nice talking to an Expert !
Well the Tiger I did bloody well.
"Tae a Yorkie like ye, a 'ero is some kind of weird sarnie, nay a nutter who takes on a Tiger tank!"
Comet is my 2nd Favourite tank after the Centurion...Pretty much every other Brit Tank was average or awful, but those two were excellent - although Comet didn't serve long 1943 - 1958
How many did you serve on?? or how would you know they were awful
The motto of this is don't fuck with the black mafia even if you're in a tiger tank ;)
You should do a video on the American contractors in Benghazi
Wait, how was comet not able to penetrate Tiger? 77HV round should gon straight thru
I don't understand why the crews weren't informed that their weapons on the comet could defeat the tiger frontally at combat ranges. Not saying I wouldn't have withdrawn aswell.
@John Cornell history would disagree with you. Besides, playing top trump with any military vehicle is banal and pointless.
@John Cornell thats combat for you, that isn't crew specifically angling their armour. Most encounters were also below 600yds anyway. And in combat it's not just tank on tank.
Which is why comparison in this case isn't worth it. One vehicle may be at an oblique angle to another but for the other assets deployed the angle won't matter.
Generally tank top trumps is utterly useless.
@@figmo4227 The Tiger drivers were trained to angle their vehicle at 45 degrees against threats. This would boost the front hull to 180+ mm and side armor to 140+ mm. The turret front (mantlet + backup armor) was effectively 140-225mm. The mantlet itself was 150-90 mm, but all thicknesses 125 mm or less were backed up by heavy bars of 100 mm armor. The Tiger 1 also had very good armor quality, much better than the Panther. British tests found that the armor performed 13-20+% better than expected from the sheer thickness. In this scenario (first encounter) the Tiger knew where the Comets were, so it could make most of angling the hull.
@@TTTT-oc4eb Indeed, I have just read through Tigerfebel and there is the section about cutting the sausage. Fair enough I was wrong.
Pop took on a tiger ,took 3 shoots at it hit it didn't stop it!!!! Asked what he did next lol he said got the he'll out of there!!!!
I often wonder what the men on both sides of the War would think if they could see what has become of Europe post War.
The Allies would've become demoralized and the Axis would have fought harder.
I have spoken to some of them and "bloody shambolic" was the reply of one of them. "A disgrace" was another and "we didnt risk our lives in a Fu(*ing war for this stupidity" was quite common.
@@USN1985dos imagine you could bring them back, imagine they saw London or Birmingham nowadays for example. I think they’d have dropped their weapons and gone home!
@@schuletrip never would that generation imagine us giving away everything they fought for to the enemy without a shot fired. Pathetic self destructive generation too scared to have an identity or an opinion happily handing it all over to those that will slaughter us once in sufficient numbers.
@@schuletrip GTF with your racist BS pal.