Oh Mercedes, I need this book I think. My adult son was murdered about a year ago. He was missing for 9 months before we learned through DNA of some found human remains that he had also been dismembered. It’s been less than two months since that news. It’s been just unbearable pain that I can’t even describe. He had some terrible mental health and addiction issues that only occurred in recent years, in his thirties. Before that he was a family man and a successful stockbroker with many close friends & family. What you read from Sarah Perry’s book was so spot on. That tiny moment of relief that we don’t have to watch his pain anymore is immediately swallowed up with guilt. What mother would feel that?? I must be a monster! What makes it even more terrible is that a friend of his was also killed and a young woman he knew well is also missing, also presumed dead. It all happened it just over one month last Spring. 😭💔 We (all three families) are convinced they are all related cases. Interestingly enough, we felt we had to reach out to the media, including local news and a national tv program to force law enforcement’s hand. We just were getting no real investigation when he was “just missing” until a reporter helped us tell their stories. It’s a sad day when families feel no other recourse than “true crime” news and shows to make law enforcement care enough to do their job. Fortunately, it helped. We also wanted families in our community to realize this is happening everywhere-not just the “bad” parts of town, like the stereotype. We’ve also tried to use it to help fix a broken local Secret Witness program, which was nearly defunct & out of money & no one knew about it. We tried, and I think we were successful, in having a celebration of his life rather than a funeral for him two weeks ago. We asked everyone to focus on his life and tell us stories about him in their lives. (We still have nothing to bury anyway. His hand & forearm that were found are still being held indefinitely as evidence 😭) Anyway, we invited the public and the press, who were all very respectful, btw. One channel even live streamed it, which feels weird but I think it helped make him a “real” person to the public. It’s a complicated case and still no one has been arrested in any of our children’s murders. If it wasn’t for a wonderful local news reporter, I fear they would just become a set of cold cases. It’s a bit like dancing with the devil, but it feels like keeping them in the news is our only hope of legal justice. You can follow our story with #Bakersfield3 on FB, IG, & Twitter. Which is just sad, isn’t it. 💔 But we felt if social media was going to chat about it, we might as well try to control the flow of information ourselves. All that to say, I’ve watched your channel for years and you & several other Booktubers and reading in general have gotten me through some terrible days. Thank you! 💞💐
Nicole Reed Thank you so much. 💐I guess I just wanted people to know, there are usually underlying reasons for families “going public”. Usually it’s to try and push an unresponsive justice system; no one does it for a few minutes of so-called fame. So, if media is trying to help solve a case, I think it’s great. If, however, a show’s focus is on the perpetrator and giving him/her the limelight, I’d personally be devastated.
Oh, Cheryl, my heart goes out to you, your family, and the other families. My 26 year old son died unexpectedly almost 12 years ago and my life continues to be heavy with sorrow. I loved the passage she read from the book about pretending all day, every day, that things are fine when they’re not. Yes, we are surrounded by many who suffer silently. I wish you peace. Big virtual hug.
Wow Cheryl, that was really brave of you to share... Big hugs to you and your family from mine. I really hope BookTube is giving you one small place in the world that gives you some joy right now. Books really can help us in so many ways. At the very least, they can bring us to another world, where we can get a break from our realities. Much love XO
This was such an important discussion, and one I’ve never heard spoken about until now. Thank you for introducing this book to me, and for making such a powerful video!
Everything you said I completely agree with. I don’t like true crime TV, but I love true crime podcasts. I used to listen to them all the time and I haven’t been able to bring myself to listen to one since reading After The Eclipse. It just made me realize how deeply disturbing and dehumanizing so many of the programs I loved really were. For example, one podcast I loved did a three part series on the Moors murders. And at the time I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever listened to. And now, looking back on it I realize how it was just a shallow glorification of two very sick and disturbed people that didn’t do anything other than shock and horrify me. So I’ve really started trying to be more critical about what I listen to. But it’s hard to find good ones, because outside of the first season of serial, most true crime podcasts are just blood and guts and detective work. I also loved the way the book handled class. There’s a part towards the end when she is talking about the duke lacrosse rape controversy, and how the media painted the accuser, whose name was also Crystal, as trash and that’s how Sarah learned that for the rest of the world a name like Crystal meant disposable when her whole life it meant beautiful. Balled my eyes out when I read that. Great discussion! Happy reading 😊😊
I cannot imagine the fear, frustration and heartbreak Perry must have relived with each page. It could so easily have tripped into bathos but never does. The narrative is so controlled. My favorite book of last year.
I definitely agree with what you’re saying. A note on I’ll Be Gone in the Dark- the Book isn’t directly about the victims but the story overall and the authors interest in it, but the way it talks about the victims in the most compassionate of any true crime that I’ve read/ watched
I'll be honest, true crime and even fiction about violent crime and sexual assault make me really anxious so it's not something I've ever explored. However, I do agree with you. The victims, and the victims' families, are so often disregarded and dehumanised where the perpetrators are so often glamorised. They are glorified and cartoonised to the point of being a big baddie in a film rather than someone who committed a horrific crime. My colleague listens to a lot of true crime podcasts and told me all about the crimes involved in the Golden State Killer case and it was terrifying! I don't understand the fascination personally but writing this, I am now realising that the criminals tend to get dehumanised with these names - "The Golden State Killer", "Jack the Ripper" - to the point where people can distance themselves from the fact that a human being did that horrific thing. This is a really interesting discussion and something I've been pondering for a while. Sorry if my comment is a bit of a mess but I'm thinking as I'm typing!
This sounds like a wonderful book and one I intend to buy. I think the obsession with true crime and forensics is the deep drive for many folks to try to understand what is it that makes someone kill, why do they murder, especially serial killers. Also, the science of forensics is so new to us now, we've had so many advancements that again I think this is what drives many of these documentaries and books. It is sad because, yes, it does put the murderer in the spotlight and in some ways glorify them, but those are just my thoughts on why there is such a resurgence of these types of documentaries and books.
Great video! It seems to me that more so than ever before (due to the ease of the internet etc) seeking information is considered simply a form of entertainment for people. We risk forgetting that knowledge is sacred & we look at it simply as something meant to be consumed. In my opinion the True Crime genre is the underbelly of that perspective because it has turned human depravity into thrill-seeking entertainment. When we open ourselves to growth & empathetic change (like what this book seemed to offer you & other readers), we can give information the respect it deserves.
Thank you for making this video and editing it. It is a video that matters. Your discussion reminded me of a nonfiction book that came out quite a while ago, Over Her Dead Body by Elisabeth Bronfen where she looks the many female bodies we come across in theatre, literature, opera etc. and puts them into a broader cultural context.
This was an excellent video and you raised issues that I often think about myself. I have read I'll Be Gone in the Dark and the best thing about the book is that Michelle personalized the stories with such detail, that you couldn't ignore that these were real people. Which makes it harder to read, but also makes you understand the real impacts the crimes had. I listened to parts of the book on audio too. Gillian Flynn reads it and also wrote the introduction. This book was haunting and because Michelle didn't get to finish it herself, it wasn't a perfect book, but I recommend it if you ever feel ready to take on another emotional journey. I watch a lot of true crime, and I often struggle with how it is presented too. I always focus on the victims myself, but I know that the more we learn about the people that commit these crimes, the more information we have to recognize a potential threat or a warning sign too. The families of the victims need the media to help them find their children and or catch their murderer, but I imagine it's a double edge sword, because their stories then no longer belong to them. Their stories are hijacked. I don't really have any idea how families are affected, but I will forever strive to because I care.
Loved this video. Very reflective. I am not a true crime reader myself but I think I understand the appeal. Some people are genuinely interested in the forensics and the way the police piece together the crime. Other people are fascinated by the criminal mind, especially that of a murderer. You are very right in pointing out that true crime really isn't about the people at all. I have never thought of this before. I think I would like to read this book. It obviously had an impact on you and that is the best kind of recommendation. Thanks for the thought provoking video.
I made a video discussing my qualms about enjoying consuming true crime podcasts and documentaries and books a while ago. It's hard. I do like consuming stories where justice happens but agree we need to hear more about victims and their personalities/their being. Have you read Lost Girls by Robert Kolker?? He details the victims of a serial killer attacking sex workers. Esp because they are a marginalized group, it was very humanizing and well done. Their families tell us about the women. Another series that really does this is The Keepers on Netflix, I felt like I truly knew the victims and the women standing up for Sister Cathy. Definitely put this book on my TBR! Thanks for talking about it.
Wow. Sounds like a very interesting book and you did a great discussion. Excellent talking points. Yes true crime only really looks at the crime not the person. Love books that make me think. I stay away from true crime and even grisly fiction thrillers.
This video just flawed me a wee bit. It made me think about the things I watch and how we are fascinated about it etc. Thank you for filming such a eye opening video xx
A cousin I was very close to was killed in a terrorist attack in N.Ireland , 15/8/98. 33 people died that day but no one has ever been convicted. Over 3 thousand people died in N.Ireland from 1969-1998. Each one was a person . Each one had family and friends who loved them. We can't turn people into numbers/ statistics and nothing more.
Thanks for this very in-depth review. I have had this book on my TBR for a while. I agree people are very fascinated with the aspects of crime and violence especially here in the US. I lament that we have become immune to the plight of victims. I wish all media, lawyers, police, and judges were required to read a book like this. Maybe they would become more empathetic to the lives of the victims and the people surrounding them. I do know people are allowed to give impact statements in US courts. Hopefully they help the families of the victims at least. Because of your review I will move this book to the top of my TBR list. I am sure it will impact me similarly.
I've loved true crime for a very long time and I've been wanting to make a discussion video about it for a long time but I have such a difficulty putting into words the complex feelings I have toward it? Because what you said is totally true and that's difficult to face and be honest about in yourself. I am so incredibly curious about this book and cannot wait to get it and read it
Thank you for this wonderful discussion. I will be picking up After The Eclipse. Historian Judith Walkowitz wrote a great cultural history that analyzes the Jack the Ripper murders and made me reflect on my own interests in true crime and the meaning of our cultural obsession with violence against women. The book is called City of Dreadful Delight: Narratives of Sexual Danger in Late Victorian London. There is also one coming out this year by Hallie Rubenhold that focuses on the victims of Jack the Ripper and looks very good. These kinds of works help me understand true crime in a more self aware context rather than in the exploitative way it is often handled.
This is such a profound discussion that you started, Mercedes. A few years ago, I read something (can't remember what) that also made me think about how our media use can glorify criminals when we make them and their actions the focus of true crime stories. The crime is furthered by us reducing the victims and survivors by the horrific acts committed against them. But it's also historic, isn't it, that our present society has evolved from where regular citizens assembled to witness executions so I suppose it's not a new fascination for people to seek out footage on the internet, etc. Personally, I wish we could move into a crime-free zone or at least where I could pretend it was so, but we have a responsibility as well, to (1) not support with our attention what we think is wrong, but more importantly, (2) to support those who try to make a difference. Sorry for the long comment but I will seek out this book and I loved Rebecca Soljnit's Mother Of All Questions too so thanks for sharing it.
Also, excellent discussion. The normalising of such horrific crimes is, well, horrific. About ten years ago I did six months jury service on a murder trial and had to watch footage of that murder pretty much every day for those six months. The first day it made me physically ill... by the end of the six months? Well. I suppose my brain had to normalise it to some extent otherwise I would have lost the plot. And once I got distance from it when the trial was over it, once again, became horrific.It's a very strange thing. xx
I think you should definitely skip I'll be Gone in the Dark. I hated it, but wasn't really sure why, but the reasons are clear now. It mainly focused on the writers obsession with who the killer was and the people who she met on her quest that were just as enthralled in catching the perpetrator as her. After listening to the audiobook I couldn't recall one of the victims names, and their stories all merged together, which is awful. I know there were many, but it felt like she was just name dropping names, some were the real names and some where pseudonyms.
Such an interesting video,I've ordered a copy of After the Eclipse.I think you'd find the Red Parts by Maggie Nelson a worthwhile read as it's also compassionate and from the perspective of a family affected by trauma.
I think one of the worthwhile true crime podcasts is the series BBC Radio 4 iPM did about the murder of Elsie Frost. PM was approached by Elsie's brother and sister asking PM for help in trying to get answers about the investigation into her murder. The family featured heavily in the podcast and it seemed to put Elsie and her family front and centre in terms of what was covered in the podcast. One of my reasons I liked Becoming Unbecoming by Una so much was because she deliberately had the victims of Peter Sutcliffe as the focus on her novel and she offered a female perspective on the murders, which I find so lacking when you see books written about Peter Sutcliffe. Her point of view about the murders and how they could have been prevented is one I've always believed in and so I was glad to see that theory presented in a written form.
I have so many thoughts! The one I'll focus on is this: like any "sinister" or "perverse" or "dark" behaviours that humans indulge, I think the fascination with killers comes from the fact that it's a taboo subject. Not only is crime a taboo in Western society--which, let's be fair, you could make the case that crime should be taboo--but more generally, simply having violent thoughts or thoughts perceived as perverted is highly taboo, even if you don't share them with anyone. As a result I think people thrive on watching crime documentaries and war documentaries, and like you said, execution footage, because it makes them relate to someone (the perpetrator of the crime) who has done something that they sense within themselves is wrong. Whether the thing itself--a tendency towards violence, for example--is wrong *if never acted upon* is a separate debate. Despite that, people want to feel that their "deep, dark desires" are normal. And watching true crime is one way to get that feeling. Personally, I'm not interested in the genre because I don't have any curiosity about killers' lives, and the stories of death and violence make me feel physically sick. But I think a lot of other people are curious about "Would I ever be able to kill someone? Could I ever be a murderer?"
You articulated my feelings about true crime perfectly. I love "true crime" that looks at the failures of the justice system, like Making a Murderer and The Staircase. I think the latter also does a good job of sadly celebrating the life of the victim. But actual true crime turns my stomach because of the twisted, salacious voyeurism. I've had people recommend the podcast My Favorite Murder. Nope, won't even try it. Why would you ever attach the word "favorite" to something so horrible?
Thank you for making this video! Have you seen Splitreads youtube video on true crime? I think you might like it. I will pick up After the Eclipse, so intriguing.
I do consume a lot of true crime content and I agree with you that it is so important not to make the victims of these crimes into statistics. I try to only watch those who talk about the subject’s life before the crime and who they were and don’t sensationalize or exploit the criminal act.
I don’t know if you want to dive into the depiction of violence in media and it’s affect on those consuming it any further, but if you I recommend Regarding the Pain of Others by Susan Sontag
I'll Be Gone in the Dark is all about the killer and the author's obsession with him. The victims are completely glossed over. Hated that book. You are so right. The glorification and sensationalism of crime makes us numb to the reality of it. We become completely desensitized.
I think the obsession with brutality isn’t a new thing as a result of our society but something natural that has always been a part of humanity. It makes me think of the public lynchings, stoning and beheadings that would attract such an audience. Nevertheless it’s incredibly important to focus on the victims as people and the growing trend that seems to glorify the murderers makes me feel very uncomfortable.
Well, in the Middle Ages, people went voluntarily and for fun to public executions that were held in the town square because everyone enjoyed seeing the people dying, and screamed at them and got a thrill off of it. That "interest" has always been there, it's inherent to our animal side, just like we all have a seed for violence inside of us, even if we try to keep it minimized, unless we are psychopaths to some degree. What you've said about this interest in the killers (someone sick enough to end a human life with his/her own hands) and that fascination with the psychopaths, forgetting that more often than not their "victims" were someone with parents or brothers or sisters or sons or daughters or husbands or wives who loved them and lost them and miss them... That is one of the main reasons why I never consume anything related to true crime, along with the fact that I don't care about psychopaths or their minds or motivations or how they are caught or anything related to that. :/
Oh Mercedes, I need this book I think. My adult son was murdered about a year ago. He was missing for 9 months before we learned through DNA of some found human remains that he had also been dismembered. It’s been less than two months since that news. It’s been just unbearable pain that I can’t even describe.
He had some terrible mental health and addiction issues that only occurred in recent years, in his thirties. Before that he was a family man and a successful stockbroker with many close friends & family. What you read from Sarah Perry’s book was so spot on. That tiny moment of relief that we don’t have to watch his pain anymore is immediately swallowed up with guilt. What mother would feel that?? I must be a monster!
What makes it even more terrible is that a friend of his was also killed and a young woman he knew well is also missing, also presumed dead. It all happened it just over one month last Spring. 😭💔 We (all three families) are convinced they are all related cases.
Interestingly enough, we felt we had to reach out to the media, including local news and a national tv program to force law enforcement’s hand. We just were getting no real investigation when he was “just missing” until a reporter helped us tell their stories. It’s a sad day when families feel no other recourse than “true crime” news and shows to make law enforcement care enough to do their job. Fortunately, it helped. We also wanted families in our community to realize this is happening everywhere-not just the “bad” parts of town, like the stereotype. We’ve also tried to use it to help fix a broken local Secret Witness program, which was nearly defunct & out of money & no one knew about it.
We tried, and I think we were successful, in having a celebration of his life rather than a funeral for him two weeks ago. We asked everyone to focus on his life and tell us stories about him in their lives. (We still have nothing to bury anyway. His hand & forearm that were found are still being held indefinitely as evidence 😭) Anyway, we invited the public and the press, who were all very respectful, btw. One channel even live streamed it, which feels weird but I think it helped make him a “real” person to the public.
It’s a complicated case and still no one has been arrested in any of our children’s murders. If it wasn’t for a wonderful local news reporter, I fear they would just become a set of cold cases. It’s a bit like dancing with the devil, but it feels like keeping them in the news is our only hope of legal justice.
You can follow our story with #Bakersfield3 on FB, IG, & Twitter. Which is just sad, isn’t it. 💔 But we felt if social media was going to chat about it, we might as well try to control the flow of information ourselves.
All that to say, I’ve watched your channel for years and you & several other Booktubers and reading in general have gotten me through some terrible days. Thank you! 💞💐
I am so sorry for your terrible loss. Your pain must be tremendous. May your memories of your son be a comfort to you.
Nicole Reed Thank you so much. 💐I guess I just wanted people to know, there are usually underlying reasons for families “going public”. Usually it’s to try and push an unresponsive justice system; no one does it for a few minutes of so-called fame. So, if media is trying to help solve a case, I think it’s great. If, however, a show’s focus is on the perpetrator and giving him/her the limelight, I’d personally be devastated.
Oh, Cheryl, my heart goes out to you, your family, and the other families. My 26 year old son died unexpectedly almost 12 years ago and my life continues to be heavy with sorrow. I loved the passage she read from the book about pretending all day, every day, that things are fine when they’re not. Yes, we are surrounded by many who suffer silently. I wish you peace. Big virtual hug.
Leslie H Thank you Leslie! I’ll hug you right back. It’s a terrible thing losing your child. 💐
Wow Cheryl, that was really brave of you to share... Big hugs to you and your family from mine. I really hope BookTube is giving you one small place in the world that gives you some joy right now. Books really can help us in so many ways. At the very least, they can bring us to another world, where we can get a break from our realities. Much love XO
This was such an important discussion, and one I’ve never heard spoken about until now. Thank you for introducing this book to me, and for making such a powerful video!
Everything you said I completely agree with. I don’t like true crime TV, but I love true crime podcasts. I used to listen to them all the time and I haven’t been able to bring myself to listen to one since reading After The Eclipse. It just made me realize how deeply disturbing and dehumanizing so many of the programs I loved really were. For example, one podcast I loved did a three part series on the Moors murders. And at the time I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever listened to. And now, looking back on it I realize how it was just a shallow glorification of two very sick and disturbed people that didn’t do anything other than shock and horrify me. So I’ve really started trying to be more critical about what I listen to. But it’s hard to find good ones, because outside of the first season of serial, most true crime podcasts are just blood and guts and detective work.
I also loved the way the book handled class. There’s a part towards the end when she is talking about the duke lacrosse rape controversy, and how the media painted the accuser, whose name was also Crystal, as trash and that’s how Sarah learned that for the rest of the world a name like Crystal meant disposable when her whole life it meant beautiful. Balled my eyes out when I read that.
Great discussion! Happy reading 😊😊
I cannot imagine the fear, frustration and heartbreak Perry must have relived with each page. It could so easily have tripped into bathos but never does. The narrative is so controlled. My favorite book of last year.
I definitely agree with what you’re saying. A note on I’ll Be Gone in the Dark- the Book isn’t directly about the victims but the story overall and the authors interest in it, but the way it talks about the victims in the most compassionate of any true crime that I’ve read/ watched
I'll be honest, true crime and even fiction about violent crime and sexual assault make me really anxious so it's not something I've ever explored. However, I do agree with you. The victims, and the victims' families, are so often disregarded and dehumanised where the perpetrators are so often glamorised. They are glorified and cartoonised to the point of being a big baddie in a film rather than someone who committed a horrific crime. My colleague listens to a lot of true crime podcasts and told me all about the crimes involved in the Golden State Killer case and it was terrifying! I don't understand the fascination personally but writing this, I am now realising that the criminals tend to get dehumanised with these names - "The Golden State Killer", "Jack the Ripper" - to the point where people can distance themselves from the fact that a human being did that horrific thing. This is a really interesting discussion and something I've been pondering for a while. Sorry if my comment is a bit of a mess but I'm thinking as I'm typing!
This sounds like a wonderful book and one I intend to buy. I think the obsession with true crime and forensics is the deep drive for many folks to try to understand what is it that makes someone kill, why do they murder, especially serial killers. Also, the science of forensics is so new to us now, we've had so many advancements that again I think this is what drives many of these documentaries and books. It is sad because, yes, it does put the murderer in the spotlight and in some ways glorify them, but those are just my thoughts on why there is such a resurgence of these types of documentaries and books.
Great video! It seems to me that more so than ever before (due to the ease of the internet etc) seeking information is considered simply a form of entertainment for people. We risk forgetting that knowledge is sacred & we look at it simply as something meant to be consumed. In my opinion the True Crime genre is the underbelly of that perspective because it has turned human depravity into thrill-seeking entertainment. When we open ourselves to growth & empathetic change (like what this book seemed to offer you & other readers), we can give information the respect it deserves.
You so made me want to read this book so I ordered it on my kindle, Thankyou Mercedes❤️
Thank you for making this video and editing it. It is a video that matters.
Your discussion reminded me of a nonfiction book that came out quite a while ago, Over Her Dead Body by Elisabeth Bronfen where she looks the many female bodies we come across in theatre, literature, opera etc. and puts them into a broader cultural context.
This was an excellent video and you raised issues that I often think about myself. I have read I'll Be Gone in the Dark and the best thing about the book is that Michelle personalized the stories with such detail, that you couldn't ignore that these were real people. Which makes it harder to read, but also makes you understand the real impacts the crimes had. I listened to parts of the book on audio too. Gillian Flynn reads it and also wrote the introduction. This book was haunting and because Michelle didn't get to finish it herself, it wasn't a perfect book, but I recommend it if you ever feel ready to take on another emotional journey. I watch a lot of true crime, and I often struggle with how it is presented too. I always focus on the victims myself, but I know that the more we learn about the people that commit these crimes, the more information we have to recognize a potential threat or a warning sign too. The families of the victims need the media to help them find their children and or catch their murderer, but I imagine it's a double edge sword, because their stories then no longer belong to them. Their stories are hijacked. I don't really have any idea how families are affected, but I will forever strive to because I care.
Loved this video. Very reflective. I am not a true crime reader myself but I think I understand the appeal. Some people are genuinely interested in the forensics and the way the police piece together the crime. Other people are fascinated by the criminal mind, especially that of a murderer. You are very right in pointing out that true crime really isn't about the people at all. I have never thought of this before. I think I would like to read this book. It obviously had an impact on you and that is the best kind of recommendation. Thanks for the thought provoking video.
Thank you for this. I've not yet read it, but I will.
I made a video discussing my qualms about enjoying consuming true crime podcasts and documentaries and books a while ago. It's hard. I do like consuming stories where justice happens but agree we need to hear more about victims and their personalities/their being. Have you read Lost Girls by Robert Kolker?? He details the victims of a serial killer attacking sex workers. Esp because they are a marginalized group, it was very humanizing and well done. Their families tell us about the women. Another series that really does this is The Keepers on Netflix, I felt like I truly knew the victims and the women standing up for Sister Cathy.
Definitely put this book on my TBR! Thanks for talking about it.
Wow. Sounds like a very interesting book and you did a great discussion. Excellent talking points. Yes true crime only really looks at the crime not the person. Love books that make me think. I stay away from true crime and even grisly fiction thrillers.
This video just flawed me a wee bit. It made me think about the things I watch and how we are fascinated about it etc. Thank you for filming such a eye opening video xx
This was a fantastic discussion
A cousin I was very close to was killed in a terrorist attack in N.Ireland , 15/8/98. 33 people died that day but no one has ever been convicted. Over 3 thousand people died in N.Ireland from 1969-1998. Each one was a person . Each one had family and friends who loved them. We can't turn people into numbers/ statistics and nothing more.
Thanks for this very in-depth review. I have had this book on my TBR for a while. I agree people are very fascinated with the aspects of crime and violence especially here in the US. I lament that we have become immune to the plight of victims. I wish all media, lawyers, police, and judges were required to read a book like this. Maybe they would become more empathetic to the lives of the victims and the people surrounding them. I do know people are allowed to give impact statements in US courts. Hopefully they help the families of the victims at least. Because of your review I will move this book to the top of my TBR list. I am sure it will impact me similarly.
I've loved true crime for a very long time and I've been wanting to make a discussion video about it for a long time but I have such a difficulty putting into words the complex feelings I have toward it? Because what you said is totally true and that's difficult to face and be honest about in yourself. I am so incredibly curious about this book and cannot wait to get it and read it
Thank you for this wonderful discussion. I will be picking up After The Eclipse. Historian Judith Walkowitz wrote a great cultural history that analyzes the Jack the Ripper murders and made me reflect on my own interests in true crime and the meaning of our cultural obsession with violence against women. The book is called City of Dreadful Delight: Narratives of Sexual Danger in Late Victorian London. There is also one coming out this year by Hallie Rubenhold that focuses on the victims of Jack the Ripper and looks very good. These kinds of works help me understand true crime in a more self aware context rather than in the exploitative way it is often handled.
This is such a profound discussion that you started, Mercedes. A few years ago, I read something (can't remember what) that also made me think about how our media use can glorify criminals when we make them and their actions the focus of true crime stories. The crime is furthered by us reducing the victims and survivors by the horrific acts committed against them. But it's also historic, isn't it, that our present society has evolved from where regular citizens assembled to witness executions so I suppose it's not a new fascination for people to seek out footage on the internet, etc. Personally, I wish we could move into a crime-free zone or at least where I could pretend it was so, but we have a responsibility as well, to (1) not support with our attention what we think is wrong, but more importantly, (2) to support those who try to make a difference. Sorry for the long comment but I will seek out this book and I loved Rebecca Soljnit's Mother Of All Questions too so thanks for sharing it.
I'm so glad you loved it so much
Also, excellent discussion. The normalising of such horrific crimes is, well, horrific. About ten years ago I did six months jury service on a murder trial and had to watch footage of that murder pretty much every day for those six months. The first day it made me physically ill... by the end of the six months? Well. I suppose my brain had to normalise it to some extent otherwise I would have lost the plot. And once I got distance from it when the trial was over it, once again, became horrific.It's a very strange thing. xx
Sounds amazing
I think you should definitely skip I'll be Gone in the Dark. I hated it, but wasn't really sure why, but the reasons are clear now. It mainly focused on the writers obsession with who the killer was and the people who she met on her quest that were just as enthralled in catching the perpetrator as her. After listening to the audiobook I couldn't recall one of the victims names, and their stories all merged together, which is awful. I know there were many, but it felt like she was just name dropping names, some were the real names and some where pseudonyms.
Interesting video.
Such an interesting video,I've ordered a copy of After the Eclipse.I think you'd find the Red Parts by Maggie Nelson a worthwhile read as it's also compassionate and from the perspective of a family affected by trauma.
I think one of the worthwhile true crime podcasts is the series BBC Radio 4 iPM did about the murder of Elsie Frost. PM was approached by Elsie's brother and sister asking PM for help in trying to get answers about the investigation into her murder. The family featured heavily in the podcast and it seemed to put Elsie and her family front and centre in terms of what was covered in the podcast.
One of my reasons I liked Becoming Unbecoming by Una so much was because she deliberately had the victims of Peter Sutcliffe as the focus on her novel and she offered a female perspective on the murders, which I find so lacking when you see books written about Peter Sutcliffe. Her point of view about the murders and how they could have been prevented is one I've always believed in and so I was glad to see that theory presented in a written form.
I have so many thoughts! The one I'll focus on is this: like any "sinister" or "perverse" or "dark" behaviours that humans indulge, I think the fascination with killers comes from the fact that it's a taboo subject. Not only is crime a taboo in Western society--which, let's be fair, you could make the case that crime should be taboo--but more generally, simply having violent thoughts or thoughts perceived as perverted is highly taboo, even if you don't share them with anyone. As a result I think people thrive on watching crime documentaries and war documentaries, and like you said, execution footage, because it makes them relate to someone (the perpetrator of the crime) who has done something that they sense within themselves is wrong. Whether the thing itself--a tendency towards violence, for example--is wrong *if never acted upon* is a separate debate. Despite that, people want to feel that their "deep, dark desires" are normal. And watching true crime is one way to get that feeling.
Personally, I'm not interested in the genre because I don't have any curiosity about killers' lives, and the stories of death and violence make me feel physically sick. But I think a lot of other people are curious about "Would I ever be able to kill someone? Could I ever be a murderer?"
You articulated my feelings about true crime perfectly. I love "true crime" that looks at the failures of the justice system, like Making a Murderer and The Staircase. I think the latter also does a good job of sadly celebrating the life of the victim. But actual true crime turns my stomach because of the twisted, salacious voyeurism. I've had people recommend the podcast My Favorite Murder. Nope, won't even try it. Why would you ever attach the word "favorite" to something so horrible?
Thank you for making this video! Have you seen Splitreads youtube video on true crime? I think you might like it. I will pick up After the Eclipse, so intriguing.
I do consume a lot of true crime content and I agree with you that it is so important not to make the victims of these crimes into statistics. I try to only watch those who talk about the subject’s life before the crime and who they were and don’t sensationalize or exploit the criminal act.
I don’t know if you want to dive into the depiction of violence in media and it’s affect on those consuming it any further, but if you I recommend Regarding the Pain of Others by Susan Sontag
This video made me not want to listen true crime podcast anymore, can't wait to read the book, sounds beautiful
Did you read Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil? If you did what did you think?
I'll Be Gone in the Dark is all about the killer and the author's obsession with him. The victims are completely glossed over. Hated that book. You are so right. The glorification and sensationalism of crime makes us numb to the reality of it. We become completely desensitized.
First i feel your described the books story.are good.. u look different others..
Coming back to say good morning Britain are talking about this topic right now in regards to Ted Bundy
I think the obsession with brutality isn’t a new thing as a result of our society but something natural that has always been a part of humanity. It makes me think of the public lynchings, stoning and beheadings that would attract such an audience. Nevertheless it’s incredibly important to focus on the victims as people and the growing trend that seems to glorify the murderers makes me feel very uncomfortable.
Well, in the Middle Ages, people went voluntarily and for fun to public executions that were held in the town square because everyone enjoyed seeing the people dying, and screamed at them and got a thrill off of it. That "interest" has always been there, it's inherent to our animal side, just like we all have a seed for violence inside of us, even if we try to keep it minimized, unless we are psychopaths to some degree.
What you've said about this interest in the killers (someone sick enough to end a human life with his/her own hands) and that fascination with the psychopaths, forgetting that more often than not their "victims" were someone with parents or brothers or sisters or sons or daughters or husbands or wives who loved them and lost them and miss them... That is one of the main reasons why I never consume anything related to true crime, along with the fact that I don't care about psychopaths or their minds or motivations or how they are caught or anything related to that. :/