So we've learned haha. Currently, we dont study montante officially but playing around with some of them has shown that they will destroy you even with protection on
Nice video guys! When facing a longer weapon with a longsword of your own in this scenario I would say it works better to work more from the bind and work your way past the point. At shorter distances the longer weapon becomes more difficult to manoever and you will be able to land hits in whichever openings present themselves, especially when using the thumb grip more. It's also interesting to see what removing gear does to your fencing. For me personally this lead to a much better understanding of where (not) to keep the hands and the importance of good posture and distance management. Looking forward to seeing more!
Appreciate that insight and that makes sense! Funny enough, Tamarea, the montante guy, was a grappler and body builder before he ever started longsword classes with us. He tends to just pick people up and put them down every time people bind with him so even me as his teacher, I naturally stay away from any space he can grab on to me.
@@ludusferocia8696 Haha I can understand that. I'm a long-time judoka myself, so I can attest that grapplers are more comfortable at close distance. The general point(hehe) of winding is that you find a way to keep your point on your opponent while at the same time getting his off-line. If the point is on him he will have to think twice about stepping in close. If he strikes around regardless you'll be well positioned to counter with an abzetsen or any of the meisterhauen.
I liked the video quite a bit. Y'all are clearly more skilled swordsmen than me. However, I feel the use of the Greatsword was misrepresented. Most of the techniques I have studied stressed the use of more sweeping motions, maintaining momentum, and zone control. You seem to be using it mostly as a larger version of a longsword, which I suppose it is and worked very well against the standard longsword. I think if more greatsword specialized techniques were used, the spear matchup would have been less one-sided. That said, I also understand that. given the heat, you weren't wearing a full kit so had to play it safe. Once again, good video, and you clearly know what you are doing with a blade. I just had to say my peace.
Thank you for the comment and compliment! You are definitely right with how greatswords were meant to be used. After watching more on the topic, (I have not formally trained in greatsword), the style it is used differs from how we used our feder. The size of the PHA montante is definitely smaller than an actual montante. I am sure that is because they wanted the ability for those swords to be used in some tournaments. All great points though! Thanks for contributing!
@@ludusferocia8696 Not entirely. There are two different broad classes of montante, with the earlier versions being approximately armpit to shoulder-height, and later versions being more chin to over-head height. Achilles Marozzo and his contemporaries showcased the former in their texts, and the use of the smaller ones seems to have more overlap with longswords in their techniques than the larger ones did.
Since he was new to Montante, it is understandable that there are a good number of mistakes he is making. Three that most stand out to me is when he half swords (which he really does not need to do against one spear) his hands are too close together negating both the length (by half swording to begin with) and leverage his hands at either side of the handle would be sufficient. Secondly he keeps the weapon in his center line which makes him an easy target. Instead of trasversing the location of his body and the sword, which would better protect him. Also you never start a Montante in a low guard, unless you are actively engaged in a rising Taho or Reves.
Definitely very novice to montante (both me and him). We did a bit more research on it after the fact and the true fighting definitely looks like what you are describing. What a terrifyingly cool weapon
You can't use a greatsword like a longsword. Your attacks should be like in a circular motion trying to cover more area than thrusting with it. Plus, it's ineffective to thrust with a real one due to the weight but that's what an expert said afterall
You are, in my experience, partly right and partly wrong. One of the keys in most of the systems I've studied for Greatsword is building and maintaining momentum is where the "circular motion" comes in. However, Thursting is very much a thing with the greatsword. One of the beginner moves I have been practicing to teach footwork is a combo of Right-shoulder-to-left-hip slash into an about-face thrust into Left-shoulder-to-right-hip slash.
That is very true. The montante feder we are using is not at the same size as historical examples so it can be used like a longsword (as I think it was intended). A true greatsword would be used differently. I was never trained in its use but seeing other demonstrations makes sense. Still, the small reach advantage and difference in guard geometry made fighting this thing HELL. I can't imagine what it would be like fighting a full sized montante
Okay, so with the size difference, the handle of a feder longsword is quite longer than the historical average of real longswords. That two handed sword has a hilt length similar to originals. This decreases the difference in length.
Yeah it's definitely much smaller than a real montante. The way one would fight with a real one would also be different. But man, just the small reach advantage and differences in the guard alone on this one. I can't imagine fighting a true length montante.
@@ludusferocia8696 thanks for that first-hand experience! The two handed sword is one of my favorite weapons, so active testing like this is awesome to see. My original comment was to point out that the feder is longer than a real longsword so it decreased the reach advantage. There is a wide range of lengths for a two handed sword. Not all of them were 6 feet long. Many of them were around 5'6" or so. The mid 15th century ones were between 5' and 5'6". The scottish ones never really got to 6'. You would have one that long if it served a purpose and the same is true for having a shorter one. I guess all I'm saying is that your montante is within historical range and that your data and experience in sparring is more accurate than you think! I hope this helps!😁
KOA has a good selection of battle ready longswords AND Greatswords. Check them out at www.kultofathena.com/?koa=41971
One of the main advantages of the zweihander is the mass and momentum. The problem is that you cannot use it in friendly sparring.
So we've learned haha. Currently, we dont study montante officially but playing around with some of them has shown that they will destroy you even with protection on
Range is key. Looking forward to the next video!
Agreed
My instructor always preached: "Fencing is the daughter of distance"
Nice video guys! When facing a longer weapon with a longsword of your own in this scenario I would say it works better to work more from the bind and work your way past the point. At shorter distances the longer weapon becomes more difficult to manoever and you will be able to land hits in whichever openings present themselves, especially when using the thumb grip more. It's also interesting to see what removing gear does to your fencing. For me personally this lead to a much better understanding of where (not) to keep the hands and the importance of good posture and distance management. Looking forward to seeing more!
Appreciate that insight and that makes sense! Funny enough, Tamarea, the montante guy, was a grappler and body builder before he ever started longsword classes with us. He tends to just pick people up and put them down every time people bind with him so even me as his teacher, I naturally stay away from any space he can grab on to me.
@@ludusferocia8696 Haha I can understand that. I'm a long-time judoka myself, so I can attest that grapplers are more comfortable at close distance. The general point(hehe) of winding is that you find a way to keep your point on your opponent while at the same time getting his off-line. If the point is on him he will have to think twice about stepping in close. If he strikes around regardless you'll be well positioned to counter with an abzetsen or any of the meisterhauen.
Great video on the advantage of the montante. What a dangerous weapon
100%. This was more a Montante style feder as it was no where as long as a real one. I can only imagine a full sized one
I liked the video quite a bit. Y'all are clearly more skilled swordsmen than me. However, I feel the use of the Greatsword was misrepresented. Most of the techniques I have studied stressed the use of more sweeping motions, maintaining momentum, and zone control. You seem to be using it mostly as a larger version of a longsword, which I suppose it is and worked very well against the standard longsword. I think if more greatsword specialized techniques were used, the spear matchup would have been less one-sided.
That said, I also understand that. given the heat, you weren't wearing a full kit so had to play it safe. Once again, good video, and you clearly know what you are doing with a blade. I just had to say my peace.
Thank you for the comment and compliment! You are definitely right with how greatswords were meant to be used. After watching more on the topic, (I have not formally trained in greatsword), the style it is used differs from how we used our feder. The size of the PHA montante is definitely smaller than an actual montante. I am sure that is because they wanted the ability for those swords to be used in some tournaments. All great points though! Thanks for contributing!
@@ludusferocia8696 Not entirely. There are two different broad classes of montante, with the earlier versions being approximately armpit to shoulder-height, and later versions being more chin to over-head height. Achilles Marozzo and his contemporaries showcased the former in their texts, and the use of the smaller ones seems to have more overlap with longswords in their techniques than the larger ones did.
Since he was new to Montante, it is understandable that there are a good number of mistakes he is making. Three that most stand out to me is when he half swords (which he really does not need to do against one spear) his hands are too close together negating both the length (by half swording to begin with) and leverage his hands at either side of the handle would be sufficient. Secondly he keeps the weapon in his center line which makes him an easy target. Instead of trasversing the location of his body and the sword, which would better protect him. Also you never start a Montante in a low guard, unless you are actively engaged in a rising Taho or Reves.
Definitely very novice to montante (both me and him). We did a bit more research on it after the fact and the true fighting definitely looks like what you are describing. What a terrifyingly cool weapon
Next time against the spear try holding the greatsword blade down, kinda like ox stance. I've noticed it's very easy to parry spears from that stance
Actually, just have a look at this video series. It's excellent in showing the technique against spears: th-cam.com/video/GpNl7Coicsk/w-d-xo.html
Ill haveto give that a try!
Is that the Purpleheart Armory Marozzo Two-Hander? I been thinking of getting a montante style sword and that one has had my eye for a while now.
After watching this and the Purple Heart pentti review video I'm hoping this channel is going to do a longsword vs katana video
Oh, It's Coming! I'm looking forward to adding that video in soon.
How are y'all not worried about flesh wounds?
The swords are dull and rounded off, and we are using a lot of control.
You can't use a greatsword like a longsword. Your attacks should be like in a circular motion trying to cover more area than thrusting with it. Plus, it's ineffective to thrust with a real one due to the weight but that's what an expert said afterall
You are, in my experience, partly right and partly wrong. One of the keys in most of the systems I've studied for Greatsword is building and maintaining momentum is where the "circular motion" comes in. However, Thursting is very much a thing with the greatsword. One of the beginner moves I have been practicing to teach footwork is a combo of Right-shoulder-to-left-hip slash into an about-face thrust into Left-shoulder-to-right-hip slash.
That is very true. The montante feder we are using is not at the same size as historical examples so it can be used like a longsword (as I think it was intended). A true greatsword would be used differently. I was never trained in its use but seeing other demonstrations makes sense. Still, the small reach advantage and difference in guard geometry made fighting this thing HELL. I can't imagine what it would be like fighting a full sized montante
The area denial is more useful against multiple enemies, and longsword techniques can be used to a certain extent
Huh... This kinda reminds me of Kendo.
Hey would you mind telling me how long it takes for purple heart penti swords to arrive?
It depends on where you live. Here in VA, it takes about a week on average.
Where are you guys located?
Norfolk, VA
@@ludusferocia8696 yes it gets pretty hot over here in Houston too.
Okay, so with the size difference, the handle of a feder longsword is quite longer than the historical average of real longswords. That two handed sword has a hilt length similar to originals. This decreases the difference in length.
Yeah it's definitely much smaller than a real montante. The way one would fight with a real one would also be different. But man, just the small reach advantage and differences in the guard alone on this one. I can't imagine fighting a true length montante.
@@ludusferocia8696 thanks for that first-hand experience! The two handed sword is one of my favorite weapons, so active testing like this is awesome to see.
My original comment was to point out that the feder is longer than a real longsword so it decreased the reach advantage. There is a wide range of lengths for a two handed sword. Not all of them were 6 feet long. Many of them were around 5'6" or so. The mid 15th century ones were between 5' and 5'6". The scottish ones never really got to 6'. You would have one that long if it served a purpose and the same is true for having a shorter one. I guess all I'm saying is that your montante is within historical range and that your data and experience in sparring is more accurate than you think! I hope this helps!😁