Personally, I love the decision of going back to that retro-futuristic style. It is almost as synonymous with the Alien as the Xenomorph itself. Alien, Aliens and Alien: Isolation all had that style and are masterpieces on their own rights.
The retro style is fine - but the director should not pretend Prometheus and Covenant never happened. Personally, I like the idea that the reason computers look retro is because society on Earth collapsed at some point. Perhaps the collapse was caused by the fragility of advanced tech and post-collapse they opt to go for a more practical / functional / robust design - easy to repair. This also informs the director what Earth might now look like. I imagine there are 2 or 3 dystopian dictatorships controlling everything. Maybe they didn't find a good replacement for oil and gas - another reason for the collapse and retro tech. There is poverty everywhere, save for a few elites who get the fancy stuff for themselves.
@nicholasgordon4999 no replacement for oil and gas? ...in a setting with interstellar space travel and astroid mining? (Not to mentain all the ships seem to have some kind of goofy anti-gravity tech since they're not "spinning" O'neal Cylinder designs.
@@nicholasgordon4999I think the tech in Prometheus looks nice because its a super rich guys ship, but in Alien the Nostromo is basically a crappy dirty old truck
@@nicholasgordon4999IIRC the "canon" (as canon as anything in this franchise can be anyways...) Explanation for the technological disparity is that computer viruses became so advanced and dangerous, and terrorist organizations started to use them (namely the religious cult shown on Alien 3) that it became easier for big corporations and governments to fit their ships with actual old technology and primitive computers that wouldn't be affected by them like more modern ones would.
I think Noah Hawley has a lot of taste, and when you look at Fargo it’s clear that he prefers tension and gritty realism over flashy aesthetics. I think he just wants to honour those original films, and perhaps he isn’t a fan of the prequels but that’s not how he is selling it. He’s just old school and I love that.
Hawley is actually my biggest hope in this whole tv show thing. He strikes me as the type who likes the original and respects it, instead of just gutting it for fan service and use it as a front to sell his own vision. Or worse, Disneys vision...
@@koppsr Yeah exactly, and he doesn’t strike me as someone who will be pushed around by executive producers or Disney, at least I hope they just leave him alone to create the show he wants to make. He’s such a talented writer… just leave him alone!
I’m sorry to hear that West Ochse passed away. I wrote to him after I read Aliens: Infiltrator telling him how much I enjoyed it. Across all these decades none of the films explored what would happen if WY actually got the chance to experiment with the Xenos, which seemed like the next logical step to me. Weston’s book told that story brilliantly. He not only wrote me back, but he sent me a signed copy. What a great guy :)
@@Valorius Yes, but not in the way anyone wanted to see. If you read Aliens: Infiltrator, you’d know what I mean. And it isn’t WY, the antagonists we’d become invested in as an audience, doing the experimenting in Alien Resurrection. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy AR, but I’m not sure if I consider it canon personally.
@@steviedow1701 It was inevitable that SOMEONE was going to do it, and having the military be responsible made the most sense; the first two films showed how quickly things got out of hand when the Company attempted it at the civilian level. Granted, even in AR things went arse-over-tit, but one can argue that these Ripley-derived Aliens showed more co-operation and ingenuity (in the absence of a Queen) than the originals would have done, and that the protocols in place might have been more capable of dealing with the originals. I consider it quite reasonable to posit that after the loss of the Nostromo, the LV428 colony, the Sulaco and the Fury 161 facility, someone in higher management at W-Y might easily have stepped in and said no, every time we touch this thing it's a disaster of monumental proportions with no profit accruing; we're going to cut our losses and leave it the hell alone. So the Ripley blood samples go to the military with a strong recommendation to do the research on a ship in deep space, and that's when the long haul begins to try to drag each one's DNA apart from the other, with results that we know.
Not really. They should've done Alien: Awakening to finish the prequel technology. Prometheus and Covenant were great. We need more of David and the engineers.
It’s complete nonsense. The aesthetic of Alien and Aliens was not retro-futurism, it was pure futurism in 1979 and 1986. It was not self- consciously “retro” at all. It’s only retro looking back from where we are now, so what Noah Hawley is talking about is straight up nostalgia. And I doubt that it is actually anything to do with aesthetic choices. It’s most likely due to budget restraints. The stuff I’ve seen about the story being centred around trans-humanism and “downloading/uploading” personalities seems to me of absolutely no-use whatsoever to the Alien story. If anything, it’s sounds like a poor, half-a$$ed appropriation of Prometheus and Covenant’s themes of creation and the desire to be Gods.
I think you could say Prometheus' tech was all prototype that were lost in the crash and the company just wrote it off. Thats what I told my self at least.
The lines about retro futurism just made me very optimistic about the show, just like that single set photo from Fede Alvarez showing an Isolation-like corridor made me very optimistic for Romulus. That messy, lived in retro futurism is what made the Alien universe for me, I hope that everyone sticks to it from now on
FX’s Fargo and Legion are both masterpieces . Noah Hawley is the reason why . He took themes/ideas from source material and turned them into something beyond expectations . I can imagine him staying true to the claustrophobic mood and psychological horror of Alien; meanwhile I can’t think of a more perfect fit for someone to take bring the world of Alien to new and unexpected places . Very exited for this project.
Masterpieces with significant examples of excess. Legion got EXTREMELY lost in its own kaleidoscopic nether regions. So did Fargo (season 4). Hawley’s extremely talented and fantastic when he buckles down, but really loses the thread when he isn’t held in check. Hopefully he’s learned from those.
Hmm, loved Legion for several reasons. It's over the top for sure and not for everyone, but it's acceptable since it's a show about mental illness and the supernatural, and it's internally consistent, which is crucial. At any rate, Legion made Hawley's name stick in my head to the point that I'd watch his Fargo despite not loving the original film, so yeah, I'd give him a whack at Alien, especially from how it sounds they're approaching it. Hope it's not marketing BS. I'd certainly bet on him succeeding at it than Scott, who's not made anything noteworthy in about two decades. Even Blomkamp has gradually lost his touch despite the shorter career, though that leaked concept art is admittedly pretty cool. tl;dr: Whatever retconning happens, even if they don't get rid of or ignore the Prometheus arc, I trust Hawley to do a good job.
anyway, COVENANT and its extra materials make it clear that the classic Xenomorph lifecycle was inherently built into the design of the organism all along. David did not create it, he studied it. what David did create was the altered version that allowed a fully formed (but small) Xenomorph to hatch from a host instead of the classic chestburster. so i don't see any contradiction. the series can use the classic lifecycle because that existed long before David's experiments.
He did create it... he experimented many times until he said he finally had made the perfect organism. He used Shaws female DNA to help create the queen hugger embryo also.
If by extra materials you mean behind the scenes and other stuff that wasn't in the theatrical release, then it might as well not exist. Why? because if I have to to go external sources to justify a continuity error that was made intentionally, then that just solidifies the poor writing of the 2 prequels. By their very nature, they contradict ALIEN. Splitting hairs so a movie that was the definition of what NOT to do in a sequel to a prequel that was the definition of movie plot hole ... is not going to do you any favors. I'm not jumping up and down screaming "THEY'RE NOT CANON!!! REEEEEEEE!!!!" like a child like some do because they can't justify their claims or opinions. I'm going off of established canon, standards for good writing, and the small details that make certain things either impossible or simply stupid.
If the audience has to do homework in order for the film to make sense or fit into the established continuity of the universe, it's a poorly written film.
Noah Hawley made the best marvel content with Legion and did amazing work with Fargo... I'm positive that he's going to make the best Alien content since Aliens.
We Legion fans gotta stick together! There are so few of us? Legion could have easily gone off the rails, but to my surprise Hawley wrangled all that insanity into a meaningful ending that didn’t disappoint. 👏👏👏
I see no reason why there can't be both technologies in it. The rich have the top of the line at their disposal, while people like the crew of the nostromo are forced to use dated or recycled technology.
The problem is the difference in the state of the tech is extreme, to the point of being a continuity error. Like when Star Trek Discovery had holograms/decks ... decades/centuries more advanced than when they were discovered during Enterprise. A show that it supposedly immediately follows. Meaning Captain Archer gives the "Address" to create the Federation and BAM ... Discovery starts. INSTANT continuity error and in a big way, too.
You should check out the Alien tabletop roleplaying game by Free League. It does a good job fitting all sources into a coherent narrative, also suggesting David only produced a cheap knock off of the xenomorph. It's written by the story consultant for the Alien franchise who works for 20th century fox and has a great expertise on the matter.
Ridley Scott and Alan Dean Foster intentionally wrote David as having created knock off Xenos, reverse engineering the Engineer's work. So l need to check that game out, it's apparently made by real fans
Maybe the Engineers knew of the Xenos and wanted to develop a bio weapon that made them easier to spread as a disease. Making it a microorganism would make it more difficult to detect before the eggs and adults were suddenly prevalent throughout an ecosystem
@@TheHaddonfieldRegistry Ridley Scott said that David created THE alien. So he definitely changed his mind, and went with David being the original creator. And yes, I think it's super dumb. I'm happy Fox and the new series will ignore that.
Absolutely, Fox media has stated that the Alien RPG by free league was also tasked with bringing together all the different elements of the Alien EU(minus AVP) into a cohesive guide for all future Alien projects. This guide/bible so to speak, is officially licensed by Fox media as canon. The future retro look was explained as being the result of a human sphere wide computer system hack and data wipe that caused the almost collapse of society. The future computer/tech systems were built less vulnerable by using older tech that made a future system wide hack/wipe almost impossible.
What's hilarious is that every film retcons elements of the canonical authenticity of its predecessors, because it's about a creature that isn't really supposed to ever be the same, because every brood can instantly iterate to suit the conditions of its environment. Novels and comics excluded (because audiences couldn't care less) you're not really seeing one common lifecycle from one film to the next, so arguing about what's canon is like emptying the ocean with a teaspoon, but people still continue to argue canon because successive films aren't just lazily copy-pasting what Ridley Scott and Jim Cameron did. It doesn't really matter whether they retcon the prequels or not, because the antagonist can literally be anything the plot needs it to be due to its unique adaptability, and that's exactly what it should be to exhibit the skills of the writer and director. What actually matters is whether they have something new and unique to say, and whether they have an effective and interesting way to present it. At this rate, the best we can hope for is that they don't lazily follow the tired industry norm of the last decade where they just limply regurgitate things that people recognize onto the screen, because it's the "safe approach" to audience acceptance. You can mock Ridley's prequels for not being genre classics, but at least he was aiming for something different, rather than churning out cheap fan service schlock like so many other things these days. I frankly would like to see them not rely on anything from Scott or Cameron as a creative crutch at all. Show me what you can really do to make your own mark on the franchise without falling back on their accomplishments, and maybe then I'll be impressed.
@@supoa9489 People who can't thread sentences together really shouldn't be making comments about how poorly other things are threaded together. Also, it's called reading comprehension, try it sometime...
@@Anamnesis You can get butthurt all you want by trying to insult my grammar, doesn't actually change the movies were failures. But it's not surprising people like who like these movies shouldn't be taken seriously. This partly reason way Ridley Scott ideas were shut down in the first Alien film, it would lend to completely diaster or film with wasted potential
I’ve always assumed that the difference in technology was films was mildly realistic in a strange sense, in Prometheus it was a funded mission from the ceo of the largest company in hopes of not dying, there was no mission more important (he was also secretly on board) so of course the ship and money spent on everything involved was greater then that of those in the originals. Company’s will try cut costs where ever they can- and that’s how I’ve always seen it.
This, it's been a few years since I re-watched either movie, but I don't recall there really being a look at "normal people" scenes that didn't involve the company.
It's also just simply the Era of filmmaking those movies were made. Tools get better. It's like comparing the first Mission Impossible film to the latest one. Art changes...
I can't say for sure, but I feel like he's more focusing on the original Alien & Aliens and ignoring all others, may even include Alien 3, which maybe the smart move as most of the fanbase liked/loved the first two, so bringing them on board could be the best move especially for the old fans.
They're not retconning anything at all either before or after because there's no need to. The TV series just like the upcoming movie is its own thing, set in the same universe, but not directly connected to it.
The Xenomorph needs to feel 'alien' again. The real reason David became the centre of all things is that he was the only good character Ridley managed to come up with. Turning Geiger's elephantine pilot into a race of blue humanoids was another move nobody asked for. The Xenomorph is most impressive as an evolved creature. Perfect.
It was disrespectful of Ridley to retcon giger’s iconic space jockey. Like you, I would have have been happy if the xeno was a naturally occurring species. However, I also would have liked it if they were bio mechanical drones that were made by the space jockey civilisation (their equivalent of androids) that ran amok.
That is not quite true. There were one too many voices that wanted to understand more about the third race that never got the focus it deserved ever since Alien came out way back in 1979. Personally I want to delve much deeper into the lore of the engineers and the fact that they are not just our creators but use humans as a byproduct to grow xenomorphs for their bio weapons industry. They are such a rich addition to the Alien universe. The Alien storyline is not some cheap horror movie repeat like Halloween or Scream. Alien is so much more.
I liked the idea there are things going on in the universe that humanity has no idea of. Space Jockeys and other races, all doing their things. Make the universe an old dark, dangerous place that humans are only a tiny part of. Instead of HFY and a 'You blow, I'll do the fingering' android that has gone bonkers.
It all makes me wonder whether Ridley Scott has accepted any role as the keeper of the mythos. Is he exercising any control over it at all, or just conceding to whatever idea sounds good at the time.
See, the way I view it, there really CAN'T be any "keeper of the mythos" as you put it. Alien isn't a series like Star Wars or Terminator, where it's the result of one man's creative vision (at first, anyway). Alien has always been a culmination of different creative visions coming together as one. Dan O'Bannon, H.R. Giger, Ridley Scott, and several others all contributed to what became the original Alien in their own ways, and the same holds true with Aliens, just with James Cameron. One person can't dictate the way this universe goes like George Lucas with Star Wars or James Cameron with Terminator.
I loved Prometheus and I enjoyed Covenant. However I wish Covenant would have had more engagement and a deeper dive into the Engineers and their planet so it was as good as I was hoping.
I think this is for the best. Scott and Foster are the only two who should be continuing the mythology set up in P/AC, but since the reception wasn't good enough to continue the story, following the original film's lore and production design is a better choice. If and when Scott wants to extend the P/AC story, it should be him that does it
Prometheus and Covenant should be discarded; firstly, they weren't good movies. Canonically, the Alien depicts the space jockey as being fossilized after thousands upon thousands of years; it's not a creature that a human built android is going to figure out after a couple of years with magical goo. Also capturing the zeerust aesthetic of the 1st film would look amazing. Frankly, he should look to the Alien:Isolation game to see how to make a canonical work that hews true to the original. Excellent video by the way!!
I like to think of the aliens universe as a multiverse of possibility. Alien has its own separate universe, Aliens is a continuation in another, Alien 3 the same, and so on. Each tends to deviate from the former in small ways. The AVP films certainly exist in their own separate timeline, with the Predators being there. As for the prequels... they're not really prequels anyway, but more of a reboot that never took off. So they also have their own universe and direction that we never got to see play out. And if you try to combine everything... it's incredibly messy and full of holes. The only way a vast combination works is if the creature has always existed, and is either seeded on alien worlds by the Predators, as like in the comics, or were put there long ago as a sort of mind field. Whatever put those 'mines' in, didn't want humanity or a similar species to wander into another section of the galaxy. Then you have another whole angle, and if the xenomorphs were fencing off the different parts of the galaxy, why? Remnants from an ancient galactic war? Territorial division? Or a means to protect species from an even greater monster past the barrier.... the universe is full of possibility, and it's always been fun to think about. Of course, there are plenty of other theories, but I'm not going to write a book here. I'm more interested to see what the new movie and series brings to the table.
Ridley: It’s f****n great… To the director of it! Ridley is past his prime though and said “the beast was cooked/done” during an interview for Prometheus I believe. He’s still great but I’m skeptical
It's such a shame that we may never get to finish David's story I personally like Prometheus and Alien Covenant and the Engineers are by far my most favorite movie alien. I'd love just a movie with just the Engineers but that'll never happen idk I'm not really excited for the upcoming media we never finished the previous story. Having a movie set in between 1 and 2 feels needless imo.
i'll agree that i would like to see more of David's story. Maybe a book about him that lets you get inside his head and experience his "ruined symphony"
Before you even start reading my comment, I apologise for having written half a book, but if you go ahead you may like what you read🙃 When I first watched Prometheus and Covenant I was unsure what to make of it, but over the years the more I watched them, the more it made sense, and now I do not wish to view the Alien universe without them. I love the fact that the Engineers are basically humanity's gods, having created man in their appearance, but not just because they can. We are basically a byproduct for the production of xenomorphs for their bio weapons industry and me being a huge AVP1 (not 2) fan, I wrote a little backround on how to keep Ridley's vision whilst still allowing the Predator amalgamation to exist despite Ridley Scott's disaproval of that. Two more things I loved about Prometheus were the "invitation" which was basically a fail safe for the Engineers that when the day came that humanity would have the technology to visit the Engineers, these would know that now the time is ripe to cull this world since these humans had become advanced enough to become a possible threat. My storyline also contains the theory that there are many more worlds out there which not only had been terraformed by Engineers, but also used as farmland for other humans, meaning that there might be many worlds out there containing our very same species, only with very different cultures, technologies and various stages of technologies depending on when they were founded. The second factor I loved so much about Prometheus was the Black goo (or Gods juice as I like to call it). This substance is basically the pinnacle of evolution, having the ability to overwrite the genes of any known free moving organism, which is why xenomorphs can vary depending on which creature they infested. Just imagine the potential for the creative department when you take into account what the outcome might be if let's say a Zoo in Cincinnati was run over by Aliens. What would a xenomorph Elephant, Giraffe, Gorilla or Octopus look like. So far we have only seen a few Xenomorph variants and only one based on an animal in Alien 3 which started out as an Ox or Dog, depending on Theatrical release or Directors cut. Theoretically you could even include the movie "The thing", argumenting that the Black goo/God juice was it's seed. In the prequel which came out 2011, the end of the movie offers a possible explanation on how it would fit in. (Not going to say what "spoiler alert" just in case you have not seen this amazing movie). Oh and another great Sci Fi of similar content is called "Life". I can sincerely recommend it. Greedy companies such as Disney buy up what they can and then go on to printing money by pouring out conveyorbelt crap and watering down the once great visions of better men regardless of how the fans will take to it. They ruined Star Wars for me, Marvel for many comic fans, although personally I do like a great number of them, but now that they have dug their greedy money grabbing claws into my favorite universe I am deeply worried of the outcome. Already they have earned my hate for having thrown the final puzzle piece away which would have linked the Prometheus prequels with 1979's Alien (Covenant 2). Now I learn of Noah Hawley's lame excuse and the same vibes come up that once plagued the production and storyline of Alien 3. I plan to write my own version and I believe I can do better than these overrated writers. Just too bad that no one will want to read it.
@@mortanos8938 i did read it all and appreciate your take. something that stands out is your phrase "my storyline." i think that's important to remember, that all of us have our own versions of how all these stories tie together. all valid in their own right. some more plausible than others. i like your thought that the xenomorph retain the "ability" of the goo to incorporate a host's physical characteristics into their own life cycle
I watched Prometheus for the first time in 3D on my projector not long ago, and i thought it was incredible. The 3D was very well done, and i give the movie credit for what it is really.
Covenant was ruined due to NPC audience crying about too little action. Then Covenant flopped because the same NpCs cried about too much action. Then Ridley Scott said okay Fckit Im outta here. It sucks. So many questions more open now and none of those new and all the old questions will be solved and no battle between engineers and davids xeno army
Why did Ridley Scott mix Prometheus with alien is my question. Originally he was going to keep that isolated from the other. The world of Engineers could be their own movies. Better writing ofcourse, but loved the concept.
I love Alien Covenant and I am so bummed we aren't going to get the conclusion of the story. This is the second time a Ridley Scott project I love has ended with out us getting a conclusion :( The other being Raised by Wolves.
@@mortanos8938 The audiences are morons and the franchise flopped because of it. Disney just resurrected it but changes will have to be made and budgets cut (simple horror movie, and retro futuristic tv show) since the franchise is too gory and cannot appeal to a large public.
That's because americans only like things with guns and explosions in it.Prometheus was never meant to be about the Alien creatures to begin with it was always meant to be a prequel that elaborated on the Space Jockey/Engineers dating as far back as 1980.
As it happened I’d listened to his comments on The Business podcast just before watching your video. It didn’t sound like he was throwing shade at the prequels at all; rather, it sounded more like he was trying to answer a question about where his series was drawing inspiration without letting the (ship’s) cat out of the bag. He came across as measured and cagey in his response, not dismissive or arrogant. Given Hawley’s track record with Fargo and Legion, I think we’re in for a treat.
I'm not a fan with where Prometheus and Covenant seemed to be headed, but to not mess with the timeline more, David's version of the xenomorphs could just be him coming to a similar experimental conclusion that the Engineers came to long before. That is, he used the same blue prints to create his xenomorphs and they looked remarkably similar to what we saw in Alien and Aliens, because the design made sense to them. I wouldn't get emotionally attached to the end result. Like with Terminator, there have been so many attempts that it's become absurd. Terminator does have the advantage of Time Travel being a key feature of their plot, and they can write those other movies off easily with that. As far as Alien, I don't know anything about the new show outside of what was said in this video, but it could easily involve the old models of xenomorph that (I assume) we see in Alien, and they could even connect to the event's of AVP 1 & 2. it could also have a secret, and vague, connection to Scott's prequels if they really wanted to. Whatever happens after the events of Covenant could end up concluding in a bubble that the outside universe never learns of. And the events of the tv show could also end in a bubble that the rest of the world never learns of. They could also tie in the end of the show to what causes the events in Alien to happen in the first place. Like the end of it sets up Weyland-Yutani being familiar with the kind of signal the ship from LV-427 would have and having the company hoping to one day find it again, which then the Nostromo does. There are a lot of different ways they could pursue this. I just hate how these franchises being milked so much for profit end up diluting the story to the point that we get unfinishable stories because they were so poorly done, or interfered with by studio heads, that it's pointless to get attached to them in a more meaningful way.
Before you even start reading my comment, I apologise for having written half a book, but if you go ahead you may like what you read🙃 When I first watched Prometheus and Covenant I was unsure what to make of it, but over the years the more I watched them, the more it made sense, and now I do not wish to view the Alien universe without them. I love the fact that the Engineers are basically humanity's gods, having created man in their appearance, but not just because they can. We are basically a byproduct for the production of xenomorphs for their bio weapons industry and me being a huge AVP1 (not 2) fan, I wrote a little backround on how to keep Ridley's vision whilst still allowing the Predator amalgamation to exist despite Ridley Scott's disaproval of that. Two more things I loved about Prometheus were the "invitation" which was basically a fail safe for the Engineers that when the day came that humanity would have the technology to visit the Engineers, these would know that now the time is ripe to cull this world since these humans had become advanced enough to become a possible threat. My storyline also contains the theory that there are many more worlds out there which not only had been terraformed by Engineers, but also used as farmland for other humans, meaning that there might be many worlds out there containing our very same species, only with very different cultures, technologies and various stages of technologies depending on when they were founded. The second factor I loved so much about Prometheus was the Black goo (or Gods juice as I like to call it). This substance is basically the pinnacle of evolution, having the ability to overwrite the genes of any known free moving organism, which is why xenomorphs can vary depending on which creature they infested. Just imagine the potential for the creative department when you take into account what the outcome might be if let's say a Zoo in Cincinnati was run over by Aliens. What would a xenomorph Elephant, Giraffe, Gorilla or Octopus look like. So far we have only seen a few Xenomorph variants and only one based on an animal in Alien 3 which started out as an Ox or Dog, depending on Theatrical release or Directors cut. Theoretically you could even include the movie "The thing", argumenting that the Black goo/God juice was it's seed. In the prequel which came out 2011, the end of the movie offers a possible explanation on how it would fit in. (Not going to say what "spoiler alert" just in case you have not seen this amazing movie). Oh and another great Sci Fi of similar content is called "Life". I can sincerely recommend it. Aside the fact that you dislike Prometheus and Covenant, I cannot but agree with what you said. You spoke from my heart about what you said regarding greedy companies such as Disney who buy up what they can and then go on to printing money by pouring out conveyorbelt crap and watering down the once great visions of better men regardless of how the fans will take to it. They ruined Star Wars for me, Marvel for many comic fans, although personally I do like a great number of them, but now that they have dug their greedy money grabbing claws into my favorite universe I am deeply worried of the outcome. Already they have earned my hate for having thrown the final puzzle piece away which would have linked the Prometheus prequels with 1979's Alien (Covenant 2). Now I learn of Noah Hawley's comment and the same vibes come up that once plagued the production and storyline of Alien 3. I plan to write my own version and I believe I can do better than these overrated writers. Just too bad that no one will want to read it.
I also had Hawley’s problem with the post-millennium tech upgrade in Prometheus when it first came out. In years since I have justified it to myself that Weyland is a billionaire with access to cutting edge and experimental technology - The Nostromo is a 15 year old Interstellar Cruiser repurposed as a Tug, essentially. It’s the difference between a private jet and a big rig. So it doesn’t bother me as much anymore - but that said, I don’t revisit the prequels very often. I don’t mind them, I certainly don’t hate them. But the one two punch of Alien and Aliens just feeds my soul in ways the other films can’t. Fingers crossed for Romulus!
I’ve enjoyed watching your vids about the prequels so much more than actually watching the films, so I’m in that group of fans he’s rearing to. Even though the lore and potential of them fascinates me, the viewing experience blew. I like Hawley’s work in general. Even when he misses the mark you can see his effort to give you something you haven’t seen before. LEGION was crazy over the top visually; FARGO is naturalistic, so it’ll be interesting to see where he lands between the two. I’m really excited about the project.
I liked David's descent into madness in Alien Covenant, his obsessive zoological drawings and experiments leading him to create the perfect organism. I think the prequels had some fun ideas. But I agree with everything Noah Hawley said here. The retro tech feels way more cut off from contact with society, and honestly just more inviting than all the slick smartphone holograms, and the prequels are pretty unsatisfying as an origin for the alien, and even the space jockey. Wherever I've heard Ridley Scott talk about the prequels, it sounds more like he was just trying to jump back into executing a well-made scifi horror movie, rather than feeling invested in the the lore they establish. Might not be attached to his own answers to the questions set up in Alien that he found intriguing enough to make prequels about. It seems considerate/tactful though that Noah Hawley said they weren't "useful" for what he was making. People should still be able to enjoy the prequels if they enjoy them. I can turn a blind eye to the Starwars sequels even if Disney says they replace all the old novelization tie-ins
I wasn't a fan of into charybdis but its predecessor The Cold Forge was my favorite alien book to date. Would love to see it used in some way in the future.
@@jneilson7568 indeed. Though it's sequel had promise, it became very melodramatic and a bit dragged out. Too many characters that I was getting confused. But the Cold Forge was a great read. Its human antagonist was so well done.
You guys have some really strange taste. A bunch of unlikable psychopaths and an Alien as backdrop. Yikes. Into Charybdis was even worse. White is a horrible writer and his only character models seem to be psychopaths, sociopaths and unlikable caricatures of real people. Again, yikes.
You guys have some really strange taste. A bunch of unlikable psychopaths and an Alien as backdrop. Yikes. Into Charybdis was even worse. White is a horrible writer and his only character models seem to be psychopaths, sociopaths and unlikable caricatures of real people. Again, yikes.
I just found this channel. If you aren't already doing it, can you do audiobook style readings of the comic books, etc or at least rundowns on what the stories are? Please and ty!!??
What Ridley did in Prometheus and Covenant I REALLY wanted to work. People shat all over Prometheus when it first came out. I did too. But then I watched it a few more times and . . . I actually kind of like it. The mystery of where that story was headed intrigued me. I liked the idea of Shaw and David going on a grand and mysterious adventure. I also liked Covenant somewhat. Again. I liked where it was headed. David was a suicide bomber and his weapon was the xenomorph. I wanted to see him unleash hell on an unsuspecting colony. I also sort of liked that the creation of the xenomorph was quite poetic. Humans create synthetics, and synthetics inevitably seek revenge by creating the xenomorph to kill their creator. . . . But . . . Ultimately I think the origin of the xenomorph is best left to a mystery. I think about that scene in the first Alien when they see the pilot in his chair with his chest exploded. What happened? How? Who are they? What was he doing? Why? What killed him? Did they create the xenomorph? These were intriguing mysteries and there simply isn't a writer or director skilled enough to give me answers that are better than the ones I created in my own head canon.
Reasonable. though I think the mystery of the original Space Jockey still stands as it looked to me like the Engineers came along centuries later to exploit and refine their technology.
Honestly, if a sequel to covenant ever gets made it would have been great if the engineers that seed the galaxy returned (the engineer society on the planet were a seeded species, like humans) and kill David due to his blasphemy of bringing back to life the perfect organism they outlawed from the universe millions of years ago. That's what I thought was being set up - hence why the space jockey in the original alien was fossilised. Engineers became warlike and stopped seeding the universe due to creating the Xeno which almost wiped them all out. Millions of years later man creates Android who also creates a Xeno (if it is the perfect organism, all societies will come to the same design. Just like an alien species would create jet fighters or weapons like ours) It's all cyclical. David sees himself as a divine creator but he's just trapped in the same cyclical chain of events. The entire thing mirrors the rise and fall of human societies, art and knowledge is created, lost, then found again
It would also parallel the idea of the Xeno being a summoned demon if you look at it as a religious allegory. Engineers, humans, androids...when they commit the sin of anger or pride they always 'conjure' the same creature from hell
I always imagined a sequel in which a ship full of scientists and archeologists picked up the trail from the Prometheus and discovered worlds and civilisations all wiped out by the Xenomorph across multiple star systems. They eventually get to a planet ruled over by megalomaniac David in control of an alien hive and a subservient human population (descendants of the colonist population at the end of Covenant). Stuff happens, blah blah. Eventually the last remaining engineers land in the planet and wipe out david and his Xeno population (in the nick of time of course) and warn him they will return to deal with earth if they ever try to revive the Xeno either by creating it or discovering egg populations across the galaxy. Ties right back to the evils of the company and its desire to capture a Xeno. It's all very convoluted at this point but I don't know how else you would tie up the story in a way that makes sense Could have the chick from covenant in it too, not sure how however. You wouldn't want to kill 2 female characters off screen in this franchise
That’s pretty insane news. I think we are already deep into a choose your own Alien motif, (which feels to me like the different DH runs) so if they just decide to make another “main timeline” film ie a follow up to 1 -2, it could still fit.
I dont need producers to tell me what's Canon. Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Isolation seem pretty coherent. The books Out of the Shadows, Sea of Sorrows and River of Pain were pretty good too. At a stretch I'd include Resurrection, but it's a bit too comic book in execution. Definitely support the retro futuristic look though. In my head I had tried to make the chunky retro tech work as some way of accounting for the time required to travel vast distances and keeping tech compatible, with the fancy Prometheus/Covenant tech being saved for the mega wealthy. But after Ridley made such a shocking job of the stories in those films, I prefer to see them as entertaining side shows inspired by the original 3. And that's the point in at with the franchise, keep making them and I'll decide whats Canon for me. Just don't let Ridley anywhere near anything but the cinematography and fx. He's a technician not a storyteller!
@@JuanDiegoPinillostry the assembly cut. Makes complete sense. It's just crybabies who think the characters should be immortal but at least all 3 of the first 3 movies paint tragedy and more darkness with the mystery of the Xenomorph. Isolation along with the trilogy have a nice consistent tone of motherhood. I agree with OP too, it's a shame Resurrection is a comedy basically as it has some visual themes and ideas that could've carried the story forward. But yeah it ended with Ripleys sacrifice and anyone wanting or counting more is just like a kid who doesn't know how to stop eating sugar
As someone who loves the Fargo series to death, and hearing his remarks about his Alien series lately... I'm really excited to see what he's going to do. It could be the best piece of Alien content since the 80's.
Agreed about the aesthetic. The Prometheus and The Covenant were science vessels. Making them look the part shouldn't be seen as a problem. The Nostromo was a space truck, and the Sulaco was a military craft. They aren't going to be as high tech looking. Either way, that was far from the problem of the prequels. As for movie retconning, even a film in a series I don't like shouldn't be ousted. For better or worse, it's there once it's released. To me, even the AVP movies are canon. They are so far apart in years that it doesn't hurt much of anything, and it also gives a major out that, no, David did not create the xenomorph. That's just my head-canon though.
Cost of the Nostromo (minus payload), $42,000,000. Cost of the Prometheus expedition, $1,000,000,000,000. The apple store versus old tech argument to me is settled by Prometheus being bespoke hardware and the Nostromo being a 'tug'. Self-driving cybertruck versus a 1960s stock Hummer. Everything fits in the narrative hole if the plot hammer is big enough. I just hope both series and movie are good.
My idea for an alien tv-series is as follows: It takes places just before the events in the first alien movie and happens on a planet near where the nostromo spaceship is shipping ore.Weyland-Yutani is on the planet and have terraformed it for years,when they discovers a cave with lots of xenomorph eggs. One of them get's infected and a xenomorph is born. It turns out to be a queen,and a lot of the Weyland-Yutani humans are infected and then a war breaks out.All the humans on the planet are wiped out and only a few manage to escape in a spaceship.Then they nuke the planet from orbit. Then Weyland-Yutani regrets the decision and a hunt for the xenomorph begins.They get a tip that there's a crashed spaceship on lv426 and sends the robot Ash on the Nostromo spaceship.But they are informed that the mission has failed and that Nostromo has gone missing.Then Weyland-Yutani get's a tip about an xenomorph on Fiorina161 and sends a team of researchers there.They finds a surviving prisoner that is impreagnated and a queen is born. Weyland-Yutani then wants to use the xenomorphs on the planets where the engineers are located because they want the technology to seed planets with life. They also want the elixir that provides humans with prolongued life.After they have managed to give birth to a flock of xenomorphs,they drops them on an engineer planet and causes everyone of them to die.Then they get hold of the blue elixir that gives prolongued life.But several ships with engineers that where away from their planet when Weyland-Yutani wiped the population out,pursue them and manages to get the elixir back,but gets trapped on the planet where both parties crash.Then a battle takes place and the crew from Weyland-Yutani gets the elixir that gives them prolongued life for thousands of years,but they are now trapped on the planet,with no means to get anywhere.But then they see a light aproaching,but is the spaceship friends or foes ?
I say this as someone who likes Prometheus and Alien Covenant, I don't care if they ignore it. I want Alien films and the shows to ignore the "continuity" and just focus on telling new, good, scary horror stories.
If Covenant and Prometheus are not cannon, where does that leave Blade Runner? Can we still see Harrison Ford and Sean Young take on a xenomorph? This is my dream sequel.
Hasn't it always been the case that fans have been left to bridge the plot holes that careless directors and script writers in our favourite movies? The Parsecs in the Kessel run, the Egg in Alien 3, How did they get Alien DNA from Ripley's blood in Resurrection etc. Fans always come up with way better explanations than Hollywood!
I love what he said about the prequels but the problem with a TV series is that each episode might try and have a "suspenseful" ending. Will that mean that someone is deaded by an alien? Or will it mean that they just keep escaping, like in Scooby Doo?
It would be interesting to see how it tackles the Xenomorph.... as the only way to keep David as the Creator (which was the intention after Prometheus) would be some kind of Time Travel... as in some Event Destroyed LV-223 causing a Temporary Tear in Space Time that sucked in the Space Jockey and Derelict as it was leaving LV-223 crashing down on LV-426. Why it could be implied that the Engineers had obtained Davids Eggs from Planet 4 and Perfected and Mass Produced them on LV-223 prior to its Destruction/Space Jockey event But I don't think this is what we will get, it seems that Noah will be indicating that the Xenomorph is NOT any Creation or Bio-Weapon but a Ancient Species.
Scott made three of the Alien movies. And I like all of them (Chaos Editions of the prequels, obviously). I'm all for the retro-tech and taking the story in new directions, but not keen on dismissing the Prometheus and Covenant. Then again, nothing in the prequels rules out use of Engineers, the classic Xenomorph, etc.
David's experiments are his own, the Engineers' creations were their own, not stated as definitive and exclusive efforts in bio-engineering. The role-playing game's scenarios and campaigns (which need to be discussed more here) are set elsewhere to the movies, and other factions of Engineers, their legacy and deadly creations. So I think there's plenty of room, so long as the series doesn't immediately state itself as the new, total and absolutele truth!
@@tulinfirenze1990 Dont be stvpid. They should've done Alien: Awakening to finish the prequel technology. Prometheus and Covenant were great. We need more of David and the engineers.
He directed the first film he did not create the mythos or design or write anything. He does not get to decide where it goes and retcon lore that's been around for decades. prometheus and Covenant got slapped into the Alien franchise to get them more attention.
The "ultra tech" could be done away with relatively easily. Blade Runner / Alien are supposed to be the same world. In Blade Runner's world there was an EMP event when electronics got destroyed. They could either: say that only robust "industrial" tech can be safely used or the very least these are the ones to be used for certain tasks. If there is a timeline issue, you could always have a similar repeat event when this decision is made etc. It would make sense: electronics are susceptible to radiation. So it would make sense to use robust systems, especially in space.
It's good that they're following the retro-tech style of the original as that's what Alien Isolation did and actually made the whole damn game even freakier. There's something incredibly surreal being stuck with 1970's aesthetics in space, complete with CRT monitors that makes flat screens and holograms very uninteresting and generic.
It's not good. They try to appeal to a loud minority of prometheus haters. The general public will still avoid it and the prequels fans will be the new haters.
I like both aesthetics aspects of the technologies employed in those movies but for sure, an Alien movie should have a retrofituristic look. One thing that could link Prometheus movies to Alien could be what they used in Dune and its prequels or even the Cycle of Robots with Foundation : humanity went too far with AI/robots and decided (or was forced) to regress.
Why? Are floating visual scanners so unrealistic when the original 2 movies had BIOSCANNERS who detected living being through walls? Especially since weylsnd yutani develops all the tech so its expected their most important project has the most cutting edge tech Youre just stuck in nostalgia
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti I get that the ship in Alien, and the terraforming styation in Aliens were low tech, but why were the US Military using low grade tech in Aliens, as did Bishop II in alien 3 - weyland marines were using a VHS recorder. In Aliens, Ripley was in Gateway Station, a medical facility orbiting earth. Is everything in the Aiens universe used by all the top militaries and agencies low tech except Weyland.
I’m comfortable with whatever happens, I just don’t want to retcon Alien 3, 4, Prometheus or Covenant. I hate that “some movies are canon, I’m ignoring others” mentality. I actually really love the prequels but understand their issues. To retcon them makes me feel like I’ve wasted time as a fan loving this material. I think it’s possible to do what he’s trying without retconning anything. So I think it should be fine unless they straight up deny those movies from existence.
As someone who actually loves the Alien Prequels I hope not. But either way, I don't care. I love them and have these movies anyway. So they can't take them away even if they're retconned.
The only defense I would have about the technology being more advanced in the prequels is that after Weyland dies the company probably downgrades with no creative visionary and later merges with Yutani just to survive
this is sad news indeed, the problem with the prequels is that the story was too grand to fit into a 2hr movie & ridley has yet to release a special extended edition with all the promo & deleted footage, but if they were going to sweep that story under the rug then at lease finish it first, what if fans don't like the first few eps of this series, are they going to cancel the rest?
I've often heard the argument around Prometheus that the technology looked to new compared to the Nostromo. I've never understood this as it makes perfect sense to me. The Nostromo was a small industrial haulage ship, hauling a large payload through space, a mining type vessel, much like a large haulage ship. Been in service for decades and will continue to be as it's built for to be just this. The Prometheus ship, was a brand new privately funded multi billion dollar exploration vessel. Funded by Mr Weyland himself, of course its going to look like an i-phone ship, its going to be top of the line, that was the point. Its seems to me this director has missed the point of the prequels and I hope it doesn't affect his judgement on the series, as over the years I've grown to love the films as much as the main ones. (well not as much as Aliens, but I do really rate them now).
I love Prometheus and Covenant.. I don't understand why people dig at it so much. It's a nice storyline in a part of the whole history of it all... how these storylines evolve in each film can be shown in different ways and in different lights, and I think every director who takes this on now has the right to show his own internal artistic image of it all. And as for dulling down the tech, that was already done with Alien 3 and I loved that too... As long as it's all well made, well acted, not too messy, bring it all on.
I enjoyed both Prometheus and Covenant but I'm still happy about these news. The design, technology, outfits etc are amazing but they don't really feel like they belong in the ALIEN universe. Those movies would have been much better off as a seperate franchise.
I liken the disparity in technology from Prometheus to the Nostromo as the difference between a Russian Oligarch's Mega-yacht and a 50 year old container ship doing the Miami - Caribbean Island runs. There is simply no comparison. According to the history given of the Nostromo it was in service long before the Prometheus mission was launched.
I really wish we had a complete trilogy for Prometheus. Seeing an engineer world for the first time would have been something special. The beast is boring at this point as most stories are all about the same thing - creature running around killing everyone one by one. Boring. Everyone dies - protagonist lives. Next film. Repeat. Change scenery. Prometheus and Covenant with all their flaws were very philosophical and deep films with hidden and open symbolism, religion, AI and genesis etc. I wish the third film would end up somewhere on the engineer planet with a massive war between species or David, leading to original Alien film.
Hello AT! Told you id see you in the next comment section, video is goose approved, and I'm so excited for the movie and show! Im hopping the movie will show the creation of the current earth world powers.
They should let Rodley Scott finish his story as a TV series ten Episodes. Like Monarch Legacy of Monsters then go from there, because Marvel Comics gave them a new origin too
I love the fact that he’s going back to the low-fi sci-fi aesthetic of the originals. Also, yes, take the Alien creation/cycle back to it’s mysterious origin. I’m not bashing the prequels in any way, but I love this direction and I’m really looking forward to this series.
I'm in 100% agreement with the creator of this video: You can't just disregard the work of other people that came before you. There are fans of the other movies; and disregarding those movies breaks verisimilitude. It breaks immersion and the hardcore fans become less invested. It is the responsibility of writers and directors to respect the material that came before and strengthen it with their own contribution to the universe. This is something the new Star Wars movies did not do - in fact, they couldn't even maintain continuity within their own trilogy. Please listen and don't make this mistake with Alien.
"The late, great Weston Ochse". Ah, man, I had no idea he had passed away! I was actually just thinking about him, and Alien: Infiltrator the other day, and thought to myself I needed to see what he'd published lately. I really liked that book, and felt it was only hampered by it's end needing to tie to Fireteam Elite. I think if Weston had been allowed to write his own ending without the need to tie into the game, it might be considered one of the better novels, it had some seriously creepy moments. On the Noah Hawley show, I recently listened to an interview with John Spaihts about his Alien: Engineers script on the Script Apart podcast. On the podcast, Spaihts talked about how he felt the Xenomorphs were intentionally designed by the Engineers for the specific purpose of wiping out humanity. I felt this idea really lessened the mystery and cosmic horror aspects of the Xenomorph, and while not directly adopted in the actual movies, the DNA of the idea still permeated Prometheus and Covenant. I think the origins and purpose of the Xenomorph should never be fully known. Through some clues, some red herrings, some hints, but I like the idea of it being an ancient, mysterious malevolent force that's been with the galaxy "all the way". And cassette futurism for the win!
The jockey being an engineer suit is the only serious issue I have with the prequel movies. The mysterious pilot of the derelict was always my biggest fascination from the whole series and it was clearly a creature in it's original iteration. When alien 3 came out I was hoping they would satisfy my burning need to know more about them, and I was bummed that it was never touched on until prometheus. When prometheus finally answered the mystery with a dud it felt super disappointing. But if I can ignore that aspect, the prequel movies are incredible but far short of perfect.
The aesthetics of the first two films have always been special to me. There's something about the harsh, industrial feel of the mechanisms that reflects the dark, horrific nature of the world. This isn't a gilded age define by sleek ships and laser beams. It's a world where all of the harships that humans face on Earth have been taken to the stars. I'm overjoyed to hear that aesthetic will be returning.
As much as I dislike Covenant, I feel like bits of the new lore should stay in canon as they can still be utilized better, such as in Aliens Fireteam Elite, with the use of the Pathogen enemies. And if we ever get new AvP media outside of comics and books, the engineers could be a fun way to add some extra threats to add to the story/experience. Also, as for how the technology looked in Prometheus and Covenant, I feel like we could maybe see a mixture of the more clean, futuristic look and the retro-futuristic style, seeing some classic Aliens looking technology given a little update.
The problem with cherry picking lore is you end up digging yourself into a bottomless pit of contradictions and what amounts to as excuses. We either accept the prequels (Prometheus and Covenant) or we don't.
Bro Ridley Scott invented the Alien universe in his mind. He can do with it what he wants and it is by defacto Canon. Period. Also prometheus and covenant were supposed to finally answer how the first alien movie and the xenomorphs came into being and who the engineers were and what happened to them. The third movie wouldve answered that in a final big War which people like you stuck in nostalgia have ruined
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti You can't have contradictory information be canon. And if David invented the xenos, why are there murals of them on the walls of the goop room? That's like someone in the 1890's having a picture of a Mustang before Ford invented the Model T in 1908.
so many people misunderstood the prequels. David was never supposed to be the creator of the Xenos on LV-426. David's story is not a direct prequel to ALIEN. the Derelict in ALIEN had been there on LV-426 for a long time, long before PROMETHEUS. the eggs in the Derelict were not created by David, they were created by the Engineers. the ship was on its way to (presumably) drop those eggs on some planet that had been seeded by the Engineers. something went wrong, the pilot/navigator was impregnated, and the ship crashed on LV-426. none of that had anything to do with David's experiments to modify the organism. people need to pay closer attention when they're watching movies.
@@supoa9489 the screenwriters wrote movies that contain all the information you need in order to correctly understand the story. it's not their fault if people don't pay attention and consequently make false assumptions that contradict what the movies tell us.
@@ElevenEvilExes Prometheus film that was released, vastly different that was originally intended. It was only meant to be one film clear and descisive leading to Alien. After rewrites and wanting to do more sequels but with no long time plan we got was released including covenant
@@supoa9489 none of what you say disproves my point. nothing in the movies says that David created the Xenos. on the contrary, several points of information in the movies clearly prove that the Xenos existed long before PROMETHEUS.
Long time fan here. Have you ever considered playing through and giving your insights on some of the often brilliant and sometimes atrocious, Alien Videos games that we have been blessed with over the decades?
Both story lines can exist at the same time. Xenomorphs are a naturally occurring creature that evolved on a distant planet but they are hard to manage if your're trying to spread them around to other planets. So engineers or alphas broke down their DNA to transport in containers then generate them from the goo to infect a new planet. Like a shake and bake, instant xenomorph. Maybe David was trying to recreate the recipe.
Its funny how you do fanfic just straight up denying what the guy who came up with the entire Alien universe: ridley scott, thinks and says how things are canon. Even if you dont like it, prometheus and covenant is canon. The black goo created creatures as bioweapons. Mutations. And the real established xenomorph species was created by AI david after experimenting with the black goo and his creations for a decade on the homeplanet of the engineers. I think its genius. Man playing God creating something that tries playing God creating something that is the destruction of humanity because they tried to play God. Which is the same reason the Engineers went extinct by a artificial creation, just like it seemed implied that they created humans They went extinct by a creation of their own creation, because their creation tried to be like then Scary how many people dont understand the story. Thats why we will never get movie 3 about the War of davids xeno army killing the last surviving engineers battling him and then crash landing in the end leading to the first ever Alien movie
I love these developments. I'm a life long Alien fan and recently having re-watched Prometheus, I found it awful. I am all for a fundamental reboot on the entire idea. I'm actually finding myself somewhat excited for Romulus. I am one of the fans "that hates the prequels" you refer to. Hahah Unabashedly. I think they are silly, meaningless, ugly, nonsensical, stupid, and having the story be about large white men that look just like humans and have the same genetic material as humans is profound in only how boring the idea is. Here's to a new direction for the franchise. Liked and shared. Good work. Godspeed.
It's what Ridley gave us. MAYBE the prequels aren't perfect, but i think they're highly entertaining for diehards like myself!! ....I believe that you said it perfectly....the prequels CANNOT be ignored!!
I'm confused and really can't understand why people don't like, even hate, Prometheus... It's my absolute favorite movie of all times!!! But I also liked (my all time favorite TV show) Star Gate Universe, which got canceled and left me hanging... I just don't understand. Closest I got to answering this question is that I like movies tackling the really big questions, which Prometheus and SGU did so good.
People are stoopid. They want another colonial marines action film from Cameron. Whenever you try to tackle philosophical plotlines, they're completely lost. Why do you think Marvel movies were profitable for more than a decade? Why is Trump winning? People are stoopid, that's why.
I suppose it depends when this is set, but the Prometheus mission from the POV of earth would be classed as lost, so not really much to say about it. The later Covenant mission , I believe Earth (assuming it got the last transmission from David) would think it is still on it's way Origae-6 with no knowledge of the Alien.
The problem is that it doesn't make sense for the xenomorph to have evolved on its own. Why would it have evolved a facehugger that's perfectly shaped for the human head, has a tube that matches the location of the human mouth, and assumes its prey breathes oxygen? How could it incorporate characteristics of its host's DNA when DNA is something that evolved on Earth? It just doesn't make sense for it not to have been bioengineered.
You could argue; the original AvP/Alien/Aliens/Alien 3 Creature are the Natural Form of the Xenomorph. And every other Prometheus/Covenant is the Engineers and David mixing in the Black Goo with the Creature.
Watch the movie again. He invented „the“ xenomorph we know now. Thats what movie 3 was all about as setup to the original from the 1970s But NPC idiots made ridley quit and FOX be unsure so we will never get the final movie that wouldve answered age old and new questions And not long until Ridley whose mind the alien universe came out of, will be too old or maybe dead to finish his final aliens franchise movie. Instead we are stuck with covenant and now new prequel fanfic by directors who are not the guy who invented the universe. A film between movie 1 and 2? Who caaares. Its just a cashgrab profiting from 1 and 2s success
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti I am just on about how to view the Alien Creatures if you want to make all the films work together. But to set the films between the first two Films is good thinking. Because as you yourself said it is where they made money. Even as much as I hate the idea of a bunch of kids taking on an Alien (which should be the shortest film known to mankind, lol) I will still go see it. Only if it oozes Woke will I walk out the Cinema.
i don't hate the prequels but i am very glad to hear the show is going in this different direction. i agree with the director on the aesthetic. i also have accepted that David didn't invent the xenomorph but arrived at a natural end of the black goo, or that, since Scott said he was on the actual engineer's home world, he could have come across their "scientific notes"(?) on how they made them, or found them. notes on their biology? i'm reading the new Bishop book, and am going to make a video review of it. i saw that you interviewed the author, and i'm going to watch that video before making my final script to incorporate his vision and not retread too much of what you may have covered. i do have to say im 200 pages in, and while it's interesting, there's not much in it about Aliens or Bishop yet.
According to the novelization, he found more than notes, he found actual examples of the Engineer-made xenos, presumably the same species from the first three films. In the film and the related shorts it kinda seems like he was just dicking around and trying random stuff, not really sure what his end goal was, in a kind of "I'll know it when I see it" kinda way. So take of that what you will. Personally I really wish they were more explicit about how they got to the neomorphs and praetomorphs from the black goo, particularly the praetomorph because I just have so many questions. I feel like it must have involved Shaw's eggs? But there's gotta be more steps than that, right? Either way, while everything the goo touches turns into a *kind* of xenomorph, it definitely seems like the species we met in the first film has some sort of significance or direct connection to the goo in some sort of causal form. Maybe the xeno came first and the goo came from them? If not, are those xenos an inevitable result after enough mutations? Or... what? I simultaneously want and don't want an answer. I would love to know the exact relationship between the presumably "original" xenos and the black goo, but leaving that as a big unknown makes them all seem a little more mysterious and... y'know, alien. We definitely won't be getting any answers from this series, though, the director doesn't seem interested in giving out any of those.
@@princessmaly thank you for sharing, i'll have to pick up the novel. i didn't think to look for one, which i should have, because i honestly like Covenant quite a bit. i watch it from a Blade Runner perspective, as though it's more about the psychology of synthetics than an origin story for xenomorphs. I agree that there is almost an analogy between how the goo re-configures the infected's DNA, and how the xeno-embreo takes on characteristics of its host. it does make me ask if the black goo is the spark in the primordial soup, like a virus or parasite that has no will of its own but merely performs a function of reorganizing a design to better fit its environment. in a way the xenomorph are the perfect organism- mindless, without will, without moral judgements, single minded and efficient, and so an evolutionary eventuality- but it doesn't account for the other side of life: the experience of existing. the things that get us out of bed in the morning. the things David wrestles with. Touching on other things i too think Shaw's eggs/reproductive organs were an important component in David's experiments. i love thinking about all these things but yeah at the same time i don't want answers because too many writers sort of phone it in and give off-handed answers that become canon.
I appreciate that you give your opinions on this, a lot of channels try to be impartial and only report on developments in the franchise. I loved Prometheus although it would’ve worked well as being its own thing and not tied into the Alien franchise. Covenant was horrendous though; not a lot actually happens and then it’s over. Going down to a new planet without helmets or suits where native flora/fauna/pathogens/hazards can easily kill you - which then actually happens!! - is INSANE. Plus you’re introducing Earth pathogens into an alien ecosystem and could doom all life on the planet. It’s the only film I’ve ever wanted to walk out of in the cinema. And James Franco as “the crispy captain” with no real screen time? What a waste!! Someone needs to call Batman to come sort out Riddler Scott before he makes an even bigger mess.
Personally, I love the decision of going back to that retro-futuristic style. It is almost as synonymous with the Alien as the Xenomorph itself.
Alien, Aliens and Alien: Isolation all had that style and are masterpieces on their own rights.
The retro style is fine - but the director should not pretend Prometheus and Covenant never happened. Personally, I like the idea that the reason computers look retro is because society on Earth collapsed at some point. Perhaps the collapse was caused by the fragility of advanced tech and post-collapse they opt to go for a more practical / functional / robust design - easy to repair. This also informs the director what Earth might now look like. I imagine there are 2 or 3 dystopian dictatorships controlling everything. Maybe they didn't find a good replacement for oil and gas - another reason for the collapse and retro tech. There is poverty everywhere, save for a few elites who get the fancy stuff for themselves.
@nicholasgordon4999 no replacement for oil and gas? ...in a setting with interstellar space travel and astroid mining? (Not to mentain all the ships seem to have some kind of goofy anti-gravity tech since they're not "spinning" O'neal Cylinder designs.
@@nicholasgordon4999I think the tech in Prometheus looks nice because its a super rich guys ship, but in Alien the Nostromo is basically a crappy dirty old truck
@@nicholasgordon4999IIRC the "canon" (as canon as anything in this franchise can be anyways...) Explanation for the technological disparity is that computer viruses became so advanced and dangerous, and terrorist organizations started to use them (namely the religious cult shown on Alien 3) that it became easier for big corporations and governments to fit their ships with actual old technology and primitive computers that wouldn't be affected by them like more modern ones would.
Alien Isolation was the true sequel we all wanted ,it blended the two movies into a new media .
I think Noah Hawley has a lot of taste, and when you look at Fargo it’s clear that he prefers tension and gritty realism over flashy aesthetics. I think he just wants to honour those original films, and perhaps he isn’t a fan of the prequels but that’s not how he is selling it. He’s just old school and I love that.
I like to think that visual razzle-dazzle in cinema has to some degree run it's course and a new trend will begin of vaguely decent story telling.
Wait, did this guy do the Fargo series? Aw, man. This is gonna be good. At very least, hopefully it doesn't suck.
Hawley is actually my biggest hope in this whole tv show thing. He strikes me as the type who likes the original and respects it, instead of just gutting it for fan service and use it as a front to sell his own vision. Or worse, Disneys vision...
@@koppsr Yeah exactly, and he doesn’t strike me as someone who will be pushed around by executive producers or Disney, at least I hope they just leave him alone to create the show he wants to make. He’s such a talented writer… just leave him alone!
Between Fargo and Legion, we are in for a treat.
I’m sorry to hear that West Ochse passed away. I wrote to him after I read Aliens: Infiltrator telling him how much I enjoyed it. Across all these decades none of the films explored what would happen if WY actually got the chance to experiment with the Xenos, which seemed like the next logical step to me. Weston’s book told that story brilliantly. He not only wrote me back, but he sent me a signed copy. What a great guy :)
Humans experimenting with Aliens is literally the plot of the film Alien Resurrection.
@@Valorius Yes, but not in the way anyone wanted to see. If you read Aliens: Infiltrator, you’d know what I mean. And it isn’t WY, the antagonists we’d become invested in as an audience, doing the experimenting in Alien Resurrection. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy AR, but I’m not sure if I consider it canon personally.
@@steviedow1701 I liked alien resurrection way more than i liked Alien 3. I thought it was solid, but by no means great.
@@Valorius I think AR is fun. I really like the Assembly Cut of Alien 3 too
@@steviedow1701 It was inevitable that SOMEONE was going to do it, and having the military be responsible made the most sense; the first two films showed how quickly things got out of hand when the Company attempted it at the civilian level. Granted, even in AR things went arse-over-tit, but one can argue that these Ripley-derived Aliens showed more co-operation and ingenuity (in the absence of a Queen) than the originals would have done, and that the protocols in place might have been more capable of dealing with the originals.
I consider it quite reasonable to posit that after the loss of the Nostromo, the LV428 colony, the Sulaco and the Fury 161 facility, someone in higher management at W-Y might easily have stepped in and said no, every time we touch this thing it's a disaster of monumental proportions with no profit accruing; we're going to cut our losses and leave it the hell alone. So the Ripley blood samples go to the military with a strong recommendation to do the research on a ship in deep space, and that's when the long haul begins to try to drag each one's DNA apart from the other, with results that we know.
THANK YOU. Retro-futurism is what MAKES the universe. Alien: Isolation gets that.
Not really. They should've done Alien: Awakening to finish the prequel technology. Prometheus and Covenant were great. We need more of David and the engineers.
Great game that 'got' the first two films.
I love isolation so much. Im very thankful that we got that.
It’s complete nonsense. The aesthetic of Alien and Aliens was not retro-futurism, it was pure futurism in 1979 and 1986. It was not self- consciously “retro” at all. It’s only retro looking back from where we are now, so what Noah Hawley is talking about is straight up nostalgia. And I doubt that it is actually anything to do with aesthetic choices. It’s most likely due to budget restraints. The stuff I’ve seen about the story being centred around trans-humanism and “downloading/uploading” personalities seems to me of absolutely no-use whatsoever to the Alien story. If anything, it’s sounds like a poor, half-a$$ed appropriation of Prometheus and Covenant’s themes of creation and the desire to be Gods.
What an awesome game
I think you could say Prometheus' tech was all prototype that were lost in the crash and the company just wrote it off. Thats what I told my self at least.
I feel like the tech is something I could easily look past considering the limitations of tech at the time. Just doing my own head cannon really lol
The lines about retro futurism just made me very optimistic about the show, just like that single set photo from Fede Alvarez showing an Isolation-like corridor made me very optimistic for Romulus. That messy, lived in retro futurism is what made the Alien universe for me, I hope that everyone sticks to it from now on
FX’s Fargo and Legion are both masterpieces . Noah Hawley is the reason why . He took themes/ideas from source material and turned them into something beyond expectations . I can imagine him staying true to the claustrophobic mood and psychological horror of Alien; meanwhile I can’t think of a more perfect fit for someone to take bring the world of Alien to new and unexpected places . Very exited for this project.
Masterpieces with significant examples of excess. Legion got EXTREMELY lost in its own kaleidoscopic nether regions. So did Fargo (season 4). Hawley’s extremely talented and fantastic when he buckles down, but really loses the thread when he isn’t held in check. Hopefully he’s learned from those.
Legion was not a masterpiece. It’s gonna be terrible since the guy clearly has no idea what he’s talking about
Hmm, loved Legion for several reasons. It's over the top for sure and not for everyone, but it's acceptable since it's a show about mental illness and the supernatural, and it's internally consistent, which is crucial.
At any rate, Legion made Hawley's name stick in my head to the point that I'd watch his Fargo despite not loving the original film, so yeah, I'd give him a whack at Alien, especially from how it sounds they're approaching it. Hope it's not marketing BS.
I'd certainly bet on him succeeding at it than Scott, who's not made anything noteworthy in about two decades. Even Blomkamp has gradually lost his touch despite the shorter career, though that leaked concept art is admittedly pretty cool.
tl;dr: Whatever retconning happens, even if they don't get rid of or ignore the Prometheus arc, I trust Hawley to do a good job.
anyway, COVENANT and its extra materials make it clear that the classic Xenomorph lifecycle was inherently built into the design of the organism all along. David did not create it, he studied it. what David did create was the altered version that allowed a fully formed (but small) Xenomorph to hatch from a host instead of the classic chestburster. so i don't see any contradiction. the series can use the classic lifecycle because that existed long before David's experiments.
Humans changed the factors
He did create it... he experimented many times until he said he finally had made the perfect organism. He used Shaws female DNA to help create the queen hugger embryo also.
If by extra materials you mean behind the scenes and other stuff that wasn't in the theatrical release, then it might as well not exist. Why? because if I have to to go external sources to justify a continuity error that was made intentionally, then that just solidifies the poor writing of the 2 prequels.
By their very nature, they contradict ALIEN. Splitting hairs so a movie that was the definition of what NOT to do in a sequel to a prequel that was the definition of movie plot hole ... is not going to do you any favors.
I'm not jumping up and down screaming "THEY'RE NOT CANON!!! REEEEEEEE!!!!" like a child like some do because they can't justify their claims or opinions. I'm going off of established canon, standards for good writing, and the small details that make certain things either impossible or simply stupid.
None of that was in the actual movie...
If you ONLY saw the actual movie in theaters, there's no indication that David didn't create the xenomorph
If the audience has to do homework in order for the film to make sense or fit into the established continuity of the universe, it's a poorly written film.
Noah Hawley made the best marvel content with Legion and did amazing work with Fargo... I'm positive that he's going to make the best Alien content since Aliens.
The show will be better than the new movie. Hawley is a way better storyteller than Alvarez.
I couldn't get into the Legion TV show but it looked beautiful in a run down, remnants of society, way.
We Legion fans gotta stick together! There are so few of us? Legion could have easily gone off the rails, but to my surprise Hawley wrangled all that insanity into a meaningful ending that didn’t disappoint. 👏👏👏
Not content my man, a story.
He also made Lucy in the Sky.
I see no reason why there can't be both technologies in it. The rich have the top of the line at their disposal, while people like the crew of the nostromo are forced to use dated or recycled technology.
The problem is the difference in the state of the tech is extreme, to the point of being a continuity error. Like when Star Trek Discovery had holograms/decks ... decades/centuries more advanced than when they were discovered during Enterprise. A show that it supposedly immediately follows. Meaning Captain Archer gives the "Address" to create the Federation and BAM ... Discovery starts. INSTANT continuity error and in a big way, too.
That's how I've always seen it as well, @jedisaiyajin2112
You should check out the Alien tabletop roleplaying game by Free League. It does a good job fitting all sources into a coherent narrative, also suggesting David only produced a cheap knock off of the xenomorph. It's written by the story consultant for the Alien franchise who works for 20th century fox and has a great expertise on the matter.
Ridley Scott and Alan Dean Foster intentionally wrote David as having created knock off Xenos, reverse engineering the Engineer's work. So l need to check that game out, it's apparently made by real fans
@@TheHaddonfieldRegistry It is. And it also draws inspiration from abandoned scripts that didn't make it into production.
Maybe the Engineers knew of the Xenos and wanted to develop a bio weapon that made them easier to spread as a disease. Making it a microorganism would make it more difficult to detect before the eggs and adults were suddenly prevalent throughout an ecosystem
@@TheHaddonfieldRegistry Ridley Scott said that David created THE alien. So he definitely changed his mind, and went with David being the original creator. And yes, I think it's super dumb. I'm happy Fox and the new series will ignore that.
Absolutely, Fox media has stated that the Alien RPG by free league was also tasked with bringing together all the different elements of the Alien EU(minus AVP) into a cohesive guide for all future Alien projects. This guide/bible so to speak, is officially licensed by Fox media as canon. The future retro look was explained as being the result of a human sphere wide computer system hack and data wipe that caused the almost collapse of society. The future computer/tech systems were built less vulnerable by using older tech that made a future system wide hack/wipe almost impossible.
What's hilarious is that every film retcons elements of the canonical authenticity of its predecessors, because it's about a creature that isn't really supposed to ever be the same, because every brood can instantly iterate to suit the conditions of its environment. Novels and comics excluded (because audiences couldn't care less) you're not really seeing one common lifecycle from one film to the next, so arguing about what's canon is like emptying the ocean with a teaspoon, but people still continue to argue canon because successive films aren't just lazily copy-pasting what Ridley Scott and Jim Cameron did.
It doesn't really matter whether they retcon the prequels or not, because the antagonist can literally be anything the plot needs it to be due to its unique adaptability, and that's exactly what it should be to exhibit the skills of the writer and director. What actually matters is whether they have something new and unique to say, and whether they have an effective and interesting way to present it.
At this rate, the best we can hope for is that they don't lazily follow the tired industry norm of the last decade where they just limply regurgitate things that people recognize onto the screen, because it's the "safe approach" to audience acceptance. You can mock Ridley's prequels for not being genre classics, but at least he was aiming for something different, rather than churning out cheap fan service schlock like so many other things these days.
I frankly would like to see them not rely on anything from Scott or Cameron as a creative crutch at all. Show me what you can really do to make your own mark on the franchise without falling back on their accomplishments, and maybe then I'll be impressed.
Just because it was different doesn't make it good, at the end of the day it was failure, as it was a poorly threaded story with no real plan.
@@supoa9489 People who can't thread sentences together really shouldn't be making comments about how poorly other things are threaded together. Also, it's called reading comprehension, try it sometime...
@@Anamnesis You can get butthurt all you want by trying to insult my grammar, doesn't actually change the movies were failures. But it's not surprising people like who like these movies shouldn't be taken seriously.
This partly reason way Ridley Scott ideas were shut down in the first Alien film, it would lend to completely diaster or film with wasted potential
@@supoa9489 probably time to call mom to come pick you up, lil guy
@@Anamnesis Whatever you say
His description of the leap in technology shown in Prometheus vs Alien reminds me of fans comparing Star Wars original trilogy to the prequels
I’ve always assumed that the difference in technology was films was mildly realistic in a strange sense, in Prometheus it was a funded mission from the ceo of the largest company in hopes of not dying, there was no mission more important (he was also secretly on board) so of course the ship and money spent on everything involved was greater then that of those in the originals. Company’s will try cut costs where ever they can- and that’s how I’ve always seen it.
This, it's been a few years since I re-watched either movie, but I don't recall there really being a look at "normal people" scenes that didn't involve the company.
It's also just simply the Era of filmmaking those movies were made. Tools get better. It's like comparing the first Mission Impossible film to the latest one. Art changes...
The difference is that Prometheus was a luxury prototype ship and was as fancy as it was because it secretly was designed to be for weyland
@@Gooch_cruiser practically what I said no?
I can't say for sure, but I feel like he's more focusing on the original Alien & Aliens and ignoring all others, may even include Alien 3, which maybe the smart move as most of the fanbase liked/loved the first two, so bringing them on board could be the best move especially for the old fans.
I’m hoping we get some kind of Isolation story. Expand more on Amanda Ripley.
They're not retconning anything at all either before or after because there's no need to. The TV series just like the upcoming movie is its own thing, set in the same universe, but not directly connected to it.
The idea you post about technology discrepancies is spot on
The Xenomorph needs to feel 'alien' again. The real reason David became the centre of all things is that he was the only good character Ridley managed to come up with. Turning Geiger's elephantine pilot into a race of blue humanoids was another move nobody asked for. The Xenomorph is most impressive as an evolved creature. Perfect.
It was disrespectful of Ridley to retcon giger’s iconic space jockey. Like you, I would have have been happy if the xeno was a naturally occurring species. However, I also would have liked it if they were bio mechanical drones that were made by the space jockey civilisation (their equivalent of androids) that ran amok.
That is not quite true. There were one too many voices that wanted to understand more about the third race that never got the focus it deserved ever since Alien came out way back in 1979. Personally I want to delve much deeper into the lore of the engineers and the fact that they are not just our creators but use humans as a byproduct to grow xenomorphs for their bio weapons industry. They are such a rich addition to the Alien universe. The Alien storyline is not some cheap horror movie repeat like Halloween or Scream. Alien is so much more.
@@mortanos8938 I'm not sure what's really left for the alien after 'aliens'. More guns and aliens?
I liked the idea there are things going on in the universe that humanity has no idea of. Space Jockeys and other races, all doing their things. Make the universe an old dark, dangerous place that humans are only a tiny part of. Instead of HFY and a 'You blow, I'll do the fingering' android that has gone bonkers.
Then you lack imagination.@@jedahn
It was Alien and then Aliens and that was pretty much it for me so there is some interesting news there. Thanks for the heads up.
great video as ever :)
I really really hope the Alien becomes unknowable and scary again. A truly unexplained violence from the void.
Happy you do this for us you are appreciated. Thanks for the videos Duder.
It all makes me wonder whether Ridley Scott has accepted any role as the keeper of the mythos. Is he exercising any control over it at all, or just conceding to whatever idea sounds good at the time.
See, the way I view it, there really CAN'T be any "keeper of the mythos" as you put it. Alien isn't a series like Star Wars or Terminator, where it's the result of one man's creative vision (at first, anyway). Alien has always been a culmination of different creative visions coming together as one. Dan O'Bannon, H.R. Giger, Ridley Scott, and several others all contributed to what became the original Alien in their own ways, and the same holds true with Aliens, just with James Cameron. One person can't dictate the way this universe goes like George Lucas with Star Wars or James Cameron with Terminator.
I loved Prometheus and I enjoyed Covenant. However I wish Covenant would have had more engagement and a deeper dive into the Engineers and their planet so it was as good as I was hoping.
I think this is for the best. Scott and Foster are the only two who should be continuing the mythology set up in P/AC, but since the reception wasn't good enough to continue the story, following the original film's lore and production design is a better choice. If and when Scott wants to extend the P/AC story, it should be him that does it
Prometheus and Covenant should be discarded; firstly, they weren't good movies. Canonically, the Alien depicts the space jockey as being fossilized after thousands upon thousands of years; it's not a creature that a human built android is going to figure out after a couple of years with magical goo. Also capturing the zeerust aesthetic of the 1st film would look amazing. Frankly, he should look to the Alien:Isolation game to see how to make a canonical work that hews true to the original. Excellent video by the way!!
My thoughts exactly. They ruined the Xenomorph and Space Jockey.
I like to think of the aliens universe as a multiverse of possibility. Alien has its own separate universe, Aliens is a continuation in another, Alien 3 the same, and so on. Each tends to deviate from the former in small ways. The AVP films certainly exist in their own separate timeline, with the Predators being there. As for the prequels... they're not really prequels anyway, but more of a reboot that never took off. So they also have their own universe and direction that we never got to see play out. And if you try to combine everything... it's incredibly messy and full of holes.
The only way a vast combination works is if the creature has always existed, and is either seeded on alien worlds by the Predators, as like in the comics, or were put there long ago as a sort of mind field. Whatever put those 'mines' in, didn't want humanity or a similar species to wander into another section of the galaxy. Then you have another whole angle, and if the xenomorphs were fencing off the different parts of the galaxy, why? Remnants from an ancient galactic war? Territorial division? Or a means to protect species from an even greater monster past the barrier.... the universe is full of possibility, and it's always been fun to think about.
Of course, there are plenty of other theories, but I'm not going to write a book here. I'm more interested to see what the new movie and series brings to the table.
Ridley: It’s f****n great… To the director of it! Ridley is past his prime though and said “the beast was cooked/done” during an interview for Prometheus I believe. He’s still great but I’m skeptical
It's such a shame that we may never get to finish David's story I personally like Prometheus and Alien Covenant and the Engineers are by far my most favorite movie alien. I'd love just a movie with just the Engineers but that'll never happen idk I'm not really excited for the upcoming media we never finished the previous story. Having a movie set in between 1 and 2 feels needless imo.
Prequels were useless we didn't need it
i'll agree that i would like to see more of David's story. Maybe a book about him that lets you get inside his head and experience his "ruined symphony"
David's story sucked.
Before you even start reading my comment, I apologise for having written half a book, but if you go ahead you may like what you read🙃
When I first watched Prometheus and Covenant I was unsure what to make of it, but over the years the more I watched them, the more it made sense, and now I do not wish to view the Alien universe without them. I love the fact that the Engineers are basically humanity's gods, having created man in their appearance, but not just because they can. We are basically a byproduct for the production of xenomorphs for their bio weapons industry and me being a huge AVP1 (not 2) fan, I wrote a little backround on how to keep Ridley's vision whilst still allowing the Predator amalgamation to exist despite Ridley Scott's disaproval of that.
Two more things I loved about Prometheus were the "invitation" which was basically a fail safe for the Engineers that when the day came that humanity would have the technology to visit the Engineers, these would know that now the time is ripe to cull this world since these humans had become advanced enough to become a possible threat. My storyline also contains the theory that there are many more worlds out there which not only had been terraformed by Engineers, but also used as farmland for other humans, meaning that there might be many worlds out there containing our very same species, only with very different cultures, technologies and various stages of technologies depending on when they were founded.
The second factor I loved so much about Prometheus was the Black goo (or Gods juice as I like to call it). This substance is basically the pinnacle of evolution, having the ability to overwrite the genes of any known free moving organism, which is why xenomorphs can vary depending on which creature they infested. Just imagine the potential for the creative department when you take into account what the outcome might be if let's say a Zoo in Cincinnati was run over by Aliens. What would a xenomorph Elephant, Giraffe, Gorilla or Octopus look like. So far we have only seen a few Xenomorph variants and only one based on an animal in Alien 3 which started out as an Ox or Dog, depending on Theatrical release or Directors cut. Theoretically you could even include the movie "The thing", argumenting that the Black goo/God juice was it's seed. In the prequel which came out 2011, the end of the movie offers a possible explanation on how it would fit in. (Not going to say what "spoiler alert" just in case you have not seen this amazing movie).
Oh and another great Sci Fi of similar content is called "Life". I can sincerely recommend it.
Greedy companies such as Disney buy up what they can and then go on to printing money by pouring out conveyorbelt crap and watering down the once great visions of better men regardless of how the fans will take to it. They ruined Star Wars for me, Marvel for many comic fans, although personally I do like a great number of them, but now that they have dug their greedy money grabbing claws into my favorite universe I am deeply worried of the outcome. Already they have earned my hate for having thrown the final puzzle piece away which would have linked the Prometheus prequels with 1979's Alien (Covenant 2).
Now I learn of Noah Hawley's lame excuse and the same vibes come up that once plagued the production and storyline of Alien 3.
I plan to write my own version and I believe I can do better than these overrated writers. Just too bad that no one will want to read it.
@@mortanos8938 i did read it all and appreciate your take. something that stands out is your phrase "my storyline." i think that's important to remember, that all of us have our own versions of how all these stories tie together. all valid in their own right. some more plausible than others. i like your thought that the xenomorph retain the "ability" of the goo to incorporate a host's physical characteristics into their own life cycle
I watched Prometheus for the first time in 3D on my projector not long ago, and i thought it was incredible. The 3D was very well done, and i give the movie credit for what it is really.
Covenant was ruined due to NPC audience crying about too little action. Then Covenant flopped because the same NpCs cried about too much action. Then Ridley Scott said okay Fckit Im outta here. It sucks. So many questions more open now and none of those new and all the old questions will be solved and no battle between engineers and davids xeno army
Also look up the cut scenes from prometheus. They basically cut the best part out. The engineer talked way more
Why did Ridley Scott mix Prometheus with alien is my question. Originally he was going to keep that isolated from the other. The world of Engineers could be their own movies. Better writing ofcourse, but loved the concept.
You just made my day by sharing this. Thank you
It's a mess, and there's going to be more mess. No matter what happens, the first two movies were absolute genius.
Agree.
The first 3 movies are absolute genius.
I think 3 gets a bad rep when in reality it's the end we would want from any other franchise these days. Know when it's done. Stop milking it.
I prefer Jockeys (Alien, Dark Horse Comics, Dark Descent) over the Engineers (Prometheus, Covenant, post 2012 marvel era).
Someone needs to say it. Otherwise Alien just becomes like Marv...too late.
I love Alien Covenant and I am so bummed we aren't going to get the conclusion of the story. This is the second time a Ridley Scott project I love has ended with out us getting a conclusion :( The other being Raised by Wolves.
All thanks to Disney
Me too. I loved the Prequels.
@@mortanos8938 The audiences are morons and the franchise flopped because of it. Disney just resurrected it but changes will have to be made and budgets cut (simple horror movie, and retro futuristic tv show) since the franchise is too gory and cannot appeal to a large public.
Same here, for me its the only good part of Aliens(lore)
That's because americans only like things with guns and explosions in it.Prometheus was never meant to be about the Alien creatures to begin with it was always meant to be a prequel that elaborated on the Space Jockey/Engineers dating as far back as 1980.
I was just thinking about how they need to bring back the retro tech look. I'm glad Hawley feels the same way about that and the prequels.
As it happened I’d listened to his comments on The Business podcast just before watching your video. It didn’t sound like he was throwing shade at the prequels at all; rather, it sounded more like he was trying to answer a question about where his series was drawing inspiration without letting the (ship’s) cat out of the bag. He came across as measured and cagey in his response, not dismissive or arrogant.
Given Hawley’s track record with Fargo and Legion, I think we’re in for a treat.
I'm not a fan with where Prometheus and Covenant seemed to be headed, but to not mess with the timeline more, David's version of the xenomorphs could just be him coming to a similar experimental conclusion that the Engineers came to long before. That is, he used the same blue prints to create his xenomorphs and they looked remarkably similar to what we saw in Alien and Aliens, because the design made sense to them.
I wouldn't get emotionally attached to the end result. Like with Terminator, there have been so many attempts that it's become absurd. Terminator does have the advantage of Time Travel being a key feature of their plot, and they can write those other movies off easily with that. As far as Alien, I don't know anything about the new show outside of what was said in this video, but it could easily involve the old models of xenomorph that (I assume) we see in Alien, and they could even connect to the event's of AVP 1 & 2. it could also have a secret, and vague, connection to Scott's prequels if they really wanted to.
Whatever happens after the events of Covenant could end up concluding in a bubble that the outside universe never learns of. And the events of the tv show could also end in a bubble that the rest of the world never learns of. They could also tie in the end of the show to what causes the events in Alien to happen in the first place. Like the end of it sets up Weyland-Yutani being familiar with the kind of signal the ship from LV-427 would have and having the company hoping to one day find it again, which then the Nostromo does. There are a lot of different ways they could pursue this.
I just hate how these franchises being milked so much for profit end up diluting the story to the point that we get unfinishable stories because they were so poorly done, or interfered with by studio heads, that it's pointless to get attached to them in a more meaningful way.
Before you even start reading my comment, I apologise for having written half a book, but if you go ahead you may like what you read🙃
When I first watched Prometheus and Covenant I was unsure what to make of it, but over the years the more I watched them, the more it made sense, and now I do not wish to view the Alien universe without them. I love the fact that the Engineers are basically humanity's gods, having created man in their appearance, but not just because they can. We are basically a byproduct for the production of xenomorphs for their bio weapons industry and me being a huge AVP1 (not 2) fan, I wrote a little backround on how to keep Ridley's vision whilst still allowing the Predator amalgamation to exist despite Ridley Scott's disaproval of that.
Two more things I loved about Prometheus were the "invitation" which was basically a fail safe for the Engineers that when the day came that humanity would have the technology to visit the Engineers, these would know that now the time is ripe to cull this world since these humans had become advanced enough to become a possible threat. My storyline also contains the theory that there are many more worlds out there which not only had been terraformed by Engineers, but also used as farmland for other humans, meaning that there might be many worlds out there containing our very same species, only with very different cultures, technologies and various stages of technologies depending on when they were founded.
The second factor I loved so much about Prometheus was the Black goo (or Gods juice as I like to call it). This substance is basically the pinnacle of evolution, having the ability to overwrite the genes of any known free moving organism, which is why xenomorphs can vary depending on which creature they infested. Just imagine the potential for the creative department when you take into account what the outcome might be if let's say a Zoo in Cincinnati was run over by Aliens. What would a xenomorph Elephant, Giraffe, Gorilla or Octopus look like. So far we have only seen a few Xenomorph variants and only one based on an animal in Alien 3 which started out as an Ox or Dog, depending on Theatrical release or Directors cut. Theoretically you could even include the movie "The thing", argumenting that the Black goo/God juice was it's seed. In the prequel which came out 2011, the end of the movie offers a possible explanation on how it would fit in. (Not going to say what "spoiler alert" just in case you have not seen this amazing movie).
Oh and another great Sci Fi of similar content is called "Life". I can sincerely recommend it.
Aside the fact that you dislike Prometheus and Covenant, I cannot but agree with what you said. You spoke from my heart about what you said regarding greedy companies such as Disney who buy up what they can and then go on to printing money by pouring out conveyorbelt crap and watering down the once great visions of better men regardless of how the fans will take to it. They ruined Star Wars for me, Marvel for many comic fans, although personally I do like a great number of them, but now that they have dug their greedy money grabbing claws into my favorite universe I am deeply worried of the outcome. Already they have earned my hate for having thrown the final puzzle piece away which would have linked the Prometheus prequels with 1979's Alien (Covenant 2).
Now I learn of Noah Hawley's comment and the same vibes come up that once plagued the production and storyline of Alien 3.
I plan to write my own version and I believe I can do better than these overrated writers. Just too bad that no one will want to read it.
Well said. Greed and ego ruining another good story.
I also had Hawley’s problem with the post-millennium tech upgrade in Prometheus when it first came out. In years since I have justified it to myself that Weyland is a billionaire with access to cutting edge and experimental technology - The Nostromo is a 15 year old Interstellar Cruiser repurposed as a Tug, essentially.
It’s the difference between a private jet and a big rig. So it doesn’t bother me as much anymore - but that said, I don’t revisit the prequels very often. I don’t mind them, I certainly don’t hate them. But the one two punch of Alien and Aliens just feeds my soul in ways the other films can’t.
Fingers crossed for Romulus!
I’ve enjoyed watching your vids about the prequels so much more than actually watching the films, so I’m in that group of fans he’s rearing to. Even though the lore and potential of them fascinates me, the viewing experience blew.
I like Hawley’s work in general. Even when he misses the mark you can see his effort to give you something you haven’t seen before. LEGION was crazy over the top visually; FARGO is naturalistic, so it’ll be interesting to see where he lands between the two. I’m really excited about the project.
I liked David's descent into madness in Alien Covenant, his obsessive zoological drawings and experiments leading him to create the perfect organism. I think the prequels had some fun ideas. But I agree with everything Noah Hawley said here. The retro tech feels way more cut off from contact with society, and honestly just more inviting than all the slick smartphone holograms, and the prequels are pretty unsatisfying as an origin for the alien, and even the space jockey. Wherever I've heard Ridley Scott talk about the prequels, it sounds more like he was just trying to jump back into executing a well-made scifi horror movie, rather than feeling invested in the the lore they establish. Might not be attached to his own answers to the questions set up in Alien that he found intriguing enough to make prequels about. It seems considerate/tactful though that Noah Hawley said they weren't "useful" for what he was making. People should still be able to enjoy the prequels if they enjoy them. I can turn a blind eye to the Starwars sequels even if Disney says they replace all the old novelization tie-ins
They should've done Alien: Awakening to finish the prequel technology. Prometheus and Covenant were great. We need more of David and the engineers.
I wasn't a fan of into charybdis but its predecessor The Cold Forge was my favorite alien book to date. Would love to see it used in some way in the future.
Cold Forge was brilliant, still need to read the sequel but Cold Forge had the most interesting characters since the movies.
@@jneilson7568 indeed. Though it's sequel had promise, it became very melodramatic and a bit dragged out. Too many characters that I was getting confused. But the Cold Forge was a great read. Its human antagonist was so well done.
You mean the one that beat you over the head with man bad? Yikes
You guys have some really strange taste. A bunch of unlikable psychopaths and an Alien as backdrop. Yikes. Into Charybdis was even worse. White is a horrible writer and his only character models seem to be psychopaths, sociopaths and unlikable caricatures of real people. Again, yikes.
You guys have some really strange taste. A bunch of unlikable psychopaths and an Alien as backdrop. Yikes. Into Charybdis was even worse. White is a horrible writer and his only character models seem to be psychopaths, sociopaths and unlikable caricatures of real people. Again, yikes.
Didn't Ridley Scott say that the Predator is not part of the Alien Franchise ?
Prequels never existed. They're just movies.
I just found this channel. If you aren't already doing it, can you do audiobook style readings of the comic books, etc or at least rundowns on what the stories are? Please and ty!!??
What Ridley did in Prometheus and Covenant I REALLY wanted to work. People shat all over Prometheus when it first came out. I did too. But then I watched it a few more times and . . . I actually kind of like it. The mystery of where that story was headed intrigued me. I liked the idea of Shaw and David going on a grand and mysterious adventure. I also liked Covenant somewhat. Again. I liked where it was headed. David was a suicide bomber and his weapon was the xenomorph. I wanted to see him unleash hell on an unsuspecting colony. I also sort of liked that the creation of the xenomorph was quite poetic. Humans create synthetics, and synthetics inevitably seek revenge by creating the xenomorph to kill their creator.
. . . But . . .
Ultimately I think the origin of the xenomorph is best left to a mystery. I think about that scene in the first Alien when they see the pilot in his chair with his chest exploded. What happened? How? Who are they? What was he doing? Why? What killed him? Did they create the xenomorph?
These were intriguing mysteries and there simply isn't a writer or director skilled enough to give me answers that are better than the ones I created in my own head canon.
Reasonable. though I think the mystery of the original Space Jockey still stands as it looked to me like the Engineers came along centuries later to exploit and refine their technology.
Great comment.
Honestly, if a sequel to covenant ever gets made it would have been great if the engineers that seed the galaxy returned (the engineer society on the planet were a seeded species, like humans) and kill David due to his blasphemy of bringing back to life the perfect organism they outlawed from the universe millions of years ago. That's what I thought was being set up - hence why the space jockey in the original alien was fossilised.
Engineers became warlike and stopped seeding the universe due to creating the Xeno which almost wiped them all out. Millions of years later man creates Android who also creates a Xeno (if it is the perfect organism, all societies will come to the same design. Just like an alien species would create jet fighters or weapons like ours)
It's all cyclical. David sees himself as a divine creator but he's just trapped in the same cyclical chain of events. The entire thing mirrors the rise and fall of human societies, art and knowledge is created, lost, then found again
It would also parallel the idea of the Xeno being a summoned demon if you look at it as a religious allegory. Engineers, humans, androids...when they commit the sin of anger or pride they always 'conjure' the same creature from hell
I always imagined a sequel in which a ship full of scientists and archeologists picked up the trail from the Prometheus and discovered worlds and civilisations all wiped out by the Xenomorph across multiple star systems. They eventually get to a planet ruled over by megalomaniac David in control of an alien hive and a subservient human population (descendants of the colonist population at the end of Covenant). Stuff happens, blah blah. Eventually the last remaining engineers land in the planet and wipe out david and his Xeno population (in the nick of time of course) and warn him they will return to deal with earth if they ever try to revive the Xeno either by creating it or discovering egg populations across the galaxy. Ties right back to the evils of the company and its desire to capture a Xeno. It's all very convoluted at this point but I don't know how else you would tie up the story in a way that makes sense
Could have the chick from covenant in it too, not sure how however. You wouldn't want to kill 2 female characters off screen in this franchise
That’s pretty insane news. I think we are already deep into a choose your own Alien motif, (which feels to me like the different DH runs) so if they just decide to make another “main timeline” film ie a follow up to 1 -2, it could still fit.
I dont need producers to tell me what's Canon. Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 and Alien Isolation seem pretty coherent. The books Out of the Shadows, Sea of Sorrows and River of Pain were pretty good too. At a stretch I'd include Resurrection, but it's a bit too comic book in execution. Definitely support the retro futuristic look though. In my head I had tried to make the chunky retro tech work as some way of accounting for the time required to travel vast distances and keeping tech compatible, with the fancy Prometheus/Covenant tech being saved for the mega wealthy. But after Ridley made such a shocking job of the stories in those films, I prefer to see them as entertaining side shows inspired by the original 3. And that's the point in at with the franchise, keep making them and I'll decide whats Canon for me. Just don't let Ridley anywhere near anything but the cinematography and fx. He's a technician not a storyteller!
Alien 3 was everything but coherent.
What was up with it?
@@JuanDiegoPinillostry the assembly cut. Makes complete sense. It's just crybabies who think the characters should be immortal but at least all 3 of the first 3 movies paint tragedy and more darkness with the mystery of the Xenomorph.
Isolation along with the trilogy have a nice consistent tone of motherhood. I agree with OP too, it's a shame Resurrection is a comedy basically as it has some visual themes and ideas that could've carried the story forward. But yeah it ended with Ripleys sacrifice and anyone wanting or counting more is just like a kid who doesn't know how to stop eating sugar
The question is -- will there ever be large-scale support for anything new again? (i.e. not based on or derivative of existing IP)
As someone who loves the Fargo series to death, and hearing his remarks about his Alien series lately... I'm really excited to see what he's going to do. It could be the best piece of Alien content since the 80's.
That is an incredibly low bar to hurdle (Alien Isolation and Audible radio plays aside).
maybe the tv show is set in the alien universe, but focuses on an alien that is not a xenomorph?
Agreed about the aesthetic. The Prometheus and The Covenant were science vessels. Making them look the part shouldn't be seen as a problem. The Nostromo was a space truck, and the Sulaco was a military craft. They aren't going to be as high tech looking. Either way, that was far from the problem of the prequels.
As for movie retconning, even a film in a series I don't like shouldn't be ousted. For better or worse, it's there once it's released. To me, even the AVP movies are canon. They are so far apart in years that it doesn't hurt much of anything, and it also gives a major out that, no, David did not create the xenomorph. That's just my head-canon though.
Great questions, I'll remain hopeful
Cost of the Nostromo (minus payload), $42,000,000.
Cost of the Prometheus expedition, $1,000,000,000,000.
The apple store versus old tech argument to me is settled by Prometheus being bespoke hardware and the Nostromo being a 'tug'.
Self-driving cybertruck versus a 1960s stock Hummer.
Everything fits in the narrative hole if the plot hammer is big enough.
I just hope both series and movie are good.
My idea for an alien tv-series is as follows: It takes places just before the events in the first alien movie and happens on a planet near where the nostromo spaceship
is shipping ore.Weyland-Yutani is on the planet and have terraformed it for years,when they discovers a cave with lots of xenomorph eggs.
One of them get's infected and a xenomorph is born. It turns out to be a queen,and a lot of the Weyland-Yutani humans are infected and then
a war breaks out.All the humans on the planet are wiped out and only a few manage to escape in a spaceship.Then they nuke the planet from orbit.
Then Weyland-Yutani regrets the decision and a hunt for the xenomorph begins.They get a tip that there's a crashed spaceship on lv426 and sends
the robot Ash on the Nostromo spaceship.But they are informed that the mission has failed and that Nostromo has gone missing.Then Weyland-Yutani get's
a tip about an xenomorph on Fiorina161 and sends a team of researchers there.They finds a surviving prisoner that is impreagnated and a queen is born.
Weyland-Yutani then wants to use the xenomorphs on the planets where the engineers are located because they want the technology to seed planets with life.
They also want the elixir that provides humans with prolongued life.After they have managed to give birth to a flock of xenomorphs,they drops them
on an engineer planet and causes everyone of them to die.Then they get hold of the blue elixir that gives
prolongued life.But several ships with engineers that where away from their planet when Weyland-Yutani wiped the
population out,pursue them and manages to get the elixir back,but gets trapped on the planet where both parties
crash.Then a battle takes place and the crew from Weyland-Yutani gets the elixir that gives them prolongued life
for thousands of years,but they are now trapped on the planet,with no means to get anywhere.But then
they see a light aproaching,but is the spaceship friends or foes ?
I say this as someone who likes Prometheus and Alien Covenant, I don't care if they ignore it. I want Alien films and the shows to ignore the "continuity" and just focus on telling new, good, scary horror stories.
If Covenant and Prometheus are not cannon, where does that leave Blade Runner? Can we still see Harrison Ford and Sean Young take on a xenomorph? This is my dream sequel.
Hasn't it always been the case that fans have been left to bridge the plot holes that careless directors and script writers in our favourite movies? The Parsecs in the Kessel run, the Egg in Alien 3, How did they get Alien DNA from Ripley's blood in Resurrection etc. Fans always come up with way better explanations than Hollywood!
All these interview statments seem like a dream come true!
I love what he said about the prequels but the problem with a TV series is that each episode might try and have a "suspenseful" ending. Will that mean that someone is deaded by an alien? Or will it mean that they just keep escaping, like in Scooby Doo?
It would be interesting to see how it tackles the Xenomorph.... as the only way to keep David as the Creator (which was the intention after Prometheus) would be some kind of Time Travel... as in some Event Destroyed LV-223 causing a Temporary Tear in Space Time that sucked in the Space Jockey and Derelict as it was leaving LV-223 crashing down on LV-426.
Why it could be implied that the Engineers had obtained Davids Eggs from Planet 4 and Perfected and Mass Produced them on LV-223 prior to its Destruction/Space Jockey event
But I don't think this is what we will get, it seems that Noah will be indicating that the Xenomorph is NOT any Creation or Bio-Weapon but a Ancient Species.
Scott made three of the Alien movies. And I like all of them (Chaos Editions of the prequels, obviously).
I'm all for the retro-tech and taking the story in new directions, but not keen on dismissing the Prometheus and Covenant. Then again, nothing in the prequels rules out use of Engineers, the classic Xenomorph, etc.
David's experiments are his own, the Engineers' creations were their own, not stated as definitive and exclusive efforts in bio-engineering.
The role-playing game's scenarios and campaigns (which need to be discussed more here) are set elsewhere to the movies, and other factions of Engineers, their legacy and deadly creations. So I think there's plenty of room, so long as the series doesn't immediately state itself as the new, total and absolutele truth!
Ridley Scott made ONE Alien movie.
@@tulinfirenze1990 Dont be stvpid. They should've done Alien: Awakening to finish the prequel technology. Prometheus and Covenant were great. We need more of David and the engineers.
He directed the first film he did not create the mythos or design or write anything. He does not get to decide where it goes and retcon lore that's been around for decades.
prometheus and Covenant got slapped into the Alien franchise to get them more attention.
The "ultra tech" could be done away with relatively easily. Blade Runner / Alien are supposed to be the same world. In Blade Runner's world there was an EMP event when electronics got destroyed. They could either: say that only robust "industrial" tech can be safely used or the very least these are the ones to be used for certain tasks. If there is a timeline issue, you could always have a similar repeat event when this decision is made etc. It would make sense: electronics are susceptible to radiation. So it would make sense to use robust systems, especially in space.
It's good that they're following the retro-tech style of the original as that's what Alien Isolation did and actually made the whole damn game even freakier. There's something incredibly surreal being stuck with 1970's aesthetics in space, complete with CRT monitors that makes flat screens and holograms very uninteresting and generic.
It's not good. They try to appeal to a loud minority of prometheus haters. The general public will still avoid it and the prequels fans will be the new haters.
I like both aesthetics aspects of the technologies employed in those movies but for sure, an Alien movie should have a retrofituristic look.
One thing that could link Prometheus movies to Alien could be what they used in Dune and its prequels or even the Cycle of Robots with Foundation : humanity went too far with AI/robots and decided (or was forced) to regress.
What he said about the tech in promethus was brilliant becuase it was something that really annoyed me personally.
Why? Are floating visual scanners so unrealistic when the original 2 movies had BIOSCANNERS who detected living being through walls?
Especially since weylsnd yutani develops all the tech so its expected their most important project has the most cutting edge tech
Youre just stuck in nostalgia
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti I get that the ship in Alien, and the terraforming styation in Aliens were low tech, but why were the US Military using low grade tech in Aliens, as did Bishop II in alien 3 - weyland marines were using a VHS recorder. In Aliens, Ripley was in Gateway Station, a medical facility orbiting earth. Is everything in the Aiens universe used by all the top militaries and agencies low tech except Weyland.
I’m comfortable with whatever happens, I just don’t want to retcon Alien 3, 4, Prometheus or Covenant. I hate that “some movies are canon, I’m ignoring others” mentality. I actually really love the prequels but understand their issues. To retcon them makes me feel like I’ve wasted time as a fan loving this material. I think it’s possible to do what he’s trying without retconning anything. So I think it should be fine unless they straight up deny those movies from existence.
As someone who actually loves the Alien Prequels I hope not. But either way, I don't care. I love them and have these movies anyway. So they can't take them away even if they're retconned.
The only defense I would have about the technology being more advanced in the prequels is that after Weyland dies the company probably downgrades with no creative visionary and later merges with Yutani just to survive
this is sad news indeed, the problem with the prequels is that the story was too grand to fit into a 2hr movie & ridley has yet to release a special extended edition with all the promo & deleted footage, but if they were going to sweep that story under the rug then at lease finish it first, what if fans don't like the first few eps of this series, are they going to cancel the rest?
I've often heard the argument around Prometheus that the technology looked to new compared to the Nostromo. I've never understood this as it makes perfect sense to me. The Nostromo was a small industrial haulage ship, hauling a large payload through space, a mining type vessel, much like a large haulage ship. Been in service for decades and will continue to be as it's built for to be just this. The Prometheus ship, was a brand new privately funded multi billion dollar exploration vessel. Funded by Mr Weyland himself, of course its going to look like an i-phone ship, its going to be top of the line, that was the point. Its seems to me this director has missed the point of the prequels and I hope it doesn't affect his judgement on the series, as over the years I've grown to love the films as much as the main ones. (well not as much as Aliens, but I do really rate them now).
I love Prometheus and Covenant.. I don't understand why people dig at it so much. It's a nice storyline in a part of the whole history of it all... how these storylines evolve in each film can be shown in different ways and in different lights, and I think every director who takes this on now has the right to show his own internal artistic image of it all. And as for dulling down the tech, that was already done with Alien 3 and I loved that too... As long as it's all well made, well acted, not too messy, bring it all on.
If you ask me, which no one did, the complete and utter disregard for the prequels sounds sensational. Gives me hope!
I enjoyed both Prometheus and Covenant but I'm still happy about these news. The design, technology, outfits etc are amazing but they don't really feel like they belong in the ALIEN universe. Those movies would have been much better off as a seperate franchise.
I liken the disparity in technology from Prometheus to the Nostromo as the difference between a Russian Oligarch's Mega-yacht and a 50 year old container ship doing the Miami - Caribbean Island runs. There is simply no comparison. According to the history given of the Nostromo it was in service long before the Prometheus mission was launched.
would be really good to see him try a retro take to this series...but it has to be done right
I really wish we had a complete trilogy for Prometheus. Seeing an engineer world for the first time would have been something special. The beast is boring at this point as most stories are all about the same thing - creature running around killing everyone one by one. Boring. Everyone dies - protagonist lives. Next film. Repeat. Change scenery. Prometheus and Covenant with all their flaws were very philosophical and deep films with hidden and open symbolism, religion, AI and genesis etc. I wish the third film would end up somewhere on the engineer planet with a massive war between species or David, leading to original Alien film.
yep
Noah Hawley is definitely taking digs at Prometheus and Covenant. And I give him a standing ovation for every single statement.
Hello AT! Told you id see you in the next comment section, video is goose approved, and I'm so excited for the movie and show! Im hopping the movie will show the creation of the current earth world powers.
They should let Rodley Scott finish his story as a TV series ten Episodes. Like Monarch Legacy of Monsters then go from there, because Marvel Comics gave them a new origin too
I love the fact that he’s going back to the low-fi sci-fi aesthetic of the originals. Also, yes, take the Alien creation/cycle back to it’s mysterious origin. I’m not bashing the prequels in any way, but I love this direction and I’m really looking forward to this series.
The prequals were ridiculous in so many ways... you should be bashing them!
I'm in 100% agreement with the creator of this video: You can't just disregard the work of other people that came before you. There are fans of the other movies; and disregarding those movies breaks verisimilitude. It breaks immersion and the hardcore fans become less invested. It is the responsibility of writers and directors to respect the material that came before and strengthen it with their own contribution to the universe. This is something the new Star Wars movies did not do - in fact, they couldn't even maintain continuity within their own trilogy. Please listen and don't make this mistake with Alien.
"The late, great Weston Ochse". Ah, man, I had no idea he had passed away! I was actually just thinking about him, and Alien: Infiltrator the other day, and thought to myself I needed to see what he'd published lately. I really liked that book, and felt it was only hampered by it's end needing to tie to Fireteam Elite. I think if Weston had been allowed to write his own ending without the need to tie into the game, it might be considered one of the better novels, it had some seriously creepy moments.
On the Noah Hawley show, I recently listened to an interview with John Spaihts about his Alien: Engineers script on the Script Apart podcast. On the podcast, Spaihts talked about how he felt the Xenomorphs were intentionally designed by the Engineers for the specific purpose of wiping out humanity. I felt this idea really lessened the mystery and cosmic horror aspects of the Xenomorph, and while not directly adopted in the actual movies, the DNA of the idea still permeated Prometheus and Covenant. I think the origins and purpose of the Xenomorph should never be fully known. Through some clues, some red herrings, some hints, but I like the idea of it being an ancient, mysterious malevolent force that's been with the galaxy "all the way".
And cassette futurism for the win!
Good, how they retconned the Jockey was stupid AF
The jockey being an engineer suit is the only serious issue I have with the prequel movies. The mysterious pilot of the derelict was always my biggest fascination from the whole series and it was clearly a creature in it's original iteration. When alien 3 came out I was hoping they would satisfy my burning need to know more about them, and I was bummed that it was never touched on until prometheus. When prometheus finally answered the mystery with a dud it felt super disappointing. But if I can ignore that aspect, the prequel movies are incredible but far short of perfect.
Bro that's the only good thing they did in those movies. An alien with an elephants trunk is goofy af. Would have been laughed out at the cinema.
The aesthetics of the first two films have always been special to me. There's something about the harsh, industrial feel of the mechanisms that reflects the dark, horrific nature of the world. This isn't a gilded age define by sleek ships and laser beams. It's a world where all of the harships that humans face on Earth have been taken to the stars. I'm overjoyed to hear that aesthetic will be returning.
As much as I dislike Covenant, I feel like bits of the new lore should stay in canon as they can still be utilized better, such as in Aliens Fireteam Elite, with the use of the Pathogen enemies. And if we ever get new AvP media outside of comics and books, the engineers could be a fun way to add some extra threats to add to the story/experience. Also, as for how the technology looked in Prometheus and Covenant, I feel like we could maybe see a mixture of the more clean, futuristic look and the retro-futuristic style, seeing some classic Aliens looking technology given a little update.
The problem with cherry picking lore is you end up digging yourself into a bottomless pit of contradictions and what amounts to as excuses. We either accept the prequels (Prometheus and Covenant) or we don't.
Bro Ridley Scott invented the Alien universe in his mind. He can do with it what he wants and it is by defacto Canon. Period.
Also prometheus and covenant were supposed to finally answer how the first alien movie and the xenomorphs came into being and who the engineers were and what happened to them. The third movie wouldve answered that in a final big War which people like you stuck in nostalgia have ruined
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti You can't have contradictory information be canon.
And if David invented the xenos, why are there murals of them on the walls of the goop room?
That's like someone in the 1890's having a picture of a Mustang before Ford invented the Model T in 1908.
@@Soldier4USA2005 read my comment again. He invented that particular species. Just watch the movie and the lab scene again man
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti It implies he invented the xenos all together. You should be the one to rewatch the movies.
Love your take on this news, Im glad, still apprehensive, Why, How the Alien is on Earth is a puzzler
so many people misunderstood the prequels. David was never supposed to be the creator of the Xenos on LV-426. David's story is not a direct prequel to ALIEN. the Derelict in ALIEN had been there on LV-426 for a long time, long before PROMETHEUS. the eggs in the Derelict were not created by David, they were created by the Engineers. the ship was on its way to (presumably) drop those eggs on some planet that had been seeded by the Engineers. something went wrong, the pilot/navigator was impregnated, and the ship crashed on LV-426. none of that had anything to do with David's experiments to modify the organism. people need to pay closer attention when they're watching movies.
YES!! Exactly.
That's the screenwriter fault they barely answered questions and wanted to milk the prequels
@@supoa9489 the screenwriters wrote movies that contain all the information you need in order to correctly understand the story. it's not their fault if people don't pay attention and consequently make false assumptions that contradict what the movies tell us.
@@ElevenEvilExes Prometheus film that was released, vastly different that was originally intended. It was only meant to be one film clear and descisive leading to Alien. After rewrites and wanting to do more sequels but with no long time plan we got was released including covenant
@@supoa9489 none of what you say disproves my point. nothing in the movies says that David created the Xenos. on the contrary, several points of information in the movies clearly prove that the Xenos existed long before PROMETHEUS.
Long time fan here. Have you ever considered playing through and giving your insights on some of the often brilliant and sometimes atrocious, Alien Videos games that we have been blessed with over the decades?
Both story lines can exist at the same time.
Xenomorphs are a naturally occurring creature that evolved on a distant planet but they are hard to manage if your're trying to spread them around to other planets.
So engineers or alphas broke down their DNA to transport in containers then generate them from the goo to infect a new planet.
Like a shake and bake, instant xenomorph.
Maybe David was trying to recreate the recipe.
Its funny how you do fanfic just straight up denying what the guy who came up with the entire Alien universe: ridley scott, thinks and says how things are canon.
Even if you dont like it, prometheus and covenant is canon. The black goo created creatures as bioweapons. Mutations. And the real established xenomorph species was created by AI david after experimenting with the black goo and his creations for a decade on the homeplanet of the engineers. I think its genius. Man playing God creating something that tries playing God creating something that is the destruction of humanity because they tried to play God. Which is the same reason the Engineers went extinct by a artificial creation, just like it seemed implied that they created humans
They went extinct by a creation of their own creation, because their creation tried to be like then
Scary how many people dont understand the story. Thats why we will never get movie 3 about the War of davids xeno army killing the last surviving engineers battling him and then crash landing in the end leading to the first ever Alien movie
Alien: River of Pain was a breath of fresh air. Highly suggest it if anyone wants more Colonial Marine action.
I love these developments. I'm a life long Alien fan and recently having re-watched Prometheus, I found it awful. I am all for a fundamental reboot on the entire idea. I'm actually finding myself somewhat excited for Romulus. I am one of the fans "that hates the prequels" you refer to. Hahah Unabashedly. I think they are silly, meaningless, ugly, nonsensical, stupid, and having the story be about large white men that look just like humans and have the same genetic material as humans is profound in only how boring the idea is.
Here's to a new direction for the franchise.
Liked and shared.
Good work. Godspeed.
Music to my ears.
If it means the albino bodybuilders are put out to pasture and the mystery of the space jockey is reinstated Im all for it!
It's what Ridley gave us. MAYBE the prequels aren't perfect, but i think they're highly entertaining for diehards like myself!! ....I believe that you said it perfectly....the prequels CANNOT be ignored!!
I'm confused and really can't understand why people don't like, even hate, Prometheus... It's my absolute favorite movie of all times!!!
But I also liked (my all time favorite TV show) Star Gate Universe, which got canceled and left me hanging...
I just don't understand. Closest I got to answering this question is that I like movies tackling the really big questions, which Prometheus and SGU did so good.
People are stoopid. They want another colonial marines action film from Cameron. Whenever you try to tackle philosophical plotlines, they're completely lost. Why do you think Marvel movies were profitable for more than a decade? Why is Trump winning? People are stoopid, that's why.
I suppose it depends when this is set, but the Prometheus mission from the POV of earth would be classed as lost, so not really much to say about it. The later Covenant mission , I believe Earth (assuming it got the last transmission from David) would think it is still on it's way Origae-6 with no knowledge of the Alien.
The problem is that it doesn't make sense for the xenomorph to have evolved on its own. Why would it have evolved a facehugger that's perfectly shaped for the human head, has a tube that matches the location of the human mouth, and assumes its prey breathes oxygen? How could it incorporate characteristics of its host's DNA when DNA is something that evolved on Earth? It just doesn't make sense for it not to have been bioengineered.
Good argument.
You could argue; the original AvP/Alien/Aliens/Alien 3 Creature are the Natural Form of the Xenomorph. And every other Prometheus/Covenant is the Engineers and David mixing in the Black Goo with the Creature.
Watch the movie again. He invented „the“ xenomorph we know now. Thats what movie 3 was all about as setup to the original from the 1970s
But NPC idiots made ridley quit and FOX be unsure so we will never get the final movie that wouldve answered age old and new questions
And not long until Ridley whose mind the alien universe came out of, will be too old or maybe dead to finish his final aliens franchise movie. Instead we are stuck with covenant and now new prequel fanfic by directors who are not the guy who invented the universe. A film between movie 1 and 2? Who caaares. Its just a cashgrab profiting from 1 and 2s success
@@AbuHajarAlBugatti I am just on about how to view the Alien Creatures if you want to make all the films work together.
But to set the films between the first two Films is good thinking. Because as you yourself said it is where they made money.
Even as much as I hate the idea of a bunch of kids taking on an Alien (which should be the shortest film known to mankind, lol) I will still go see it. Only if it oozes Woke will I walk out the Cinema.
@@nevermindmyname9153
Yeah I also prefer cheap B movies aimed at a broad modern audience to the conclusion of a 50 year’s franchise by its Maker
i don't hate the prequels but i am very glad to hear the show is going in this different direction. i agree with the director on the aesthetic. i also have accepted that David didn't invent the xenomorph but arrived at a natural end of the black goo, or that, since Scott said he was on the actual engineer's home world, he could have come across their "scientific notes"(?) on how they made them, or found them. notes on their biology?
i'm reading the new Bishop book, and am going to make a video review of it. i saw that you interviewed the author, and i'm going to watch that video before making my final script to incorporate his vision and not retread too much of what you may have covered. i do have to say im 200 pages in, and while it's interesting, there's not much in it about Aliens or Bishop yet.
According to the novelization, he found more than notes, he found actual examples of the Engineer-made xenos, presumably the same species from the first three films. In the film and the related shorts it kinda seems like he was just dicking around and trying random stuff, not really sure what his end goal was, in a kind of "I'll know it when I see it" kinda way.
So take of that what you will. Personally I really wish they were more explicit about how they got to the neomorphs and praetomorphs from the black goo, particularly the praetomorph because I just have so many questions. I feel like it must have involved Shaw's eggs? But there's gotta be more steps than that, right? Either way, while everything the goo touches turns into a *kind* of xenomorph, it definitely seems like the species we met in the first film has some sort of significance or direct connection to the goo in some sort of causal form. Maybe the xeno came first and the goo came from them? If not, are those xenos an inevitable result after enough mutations? Or... what?
I simultaneously want and don't want an answer. I would love to know the exact relationship between the presumably "original" xenos and the black goo, but leaving that as a big unknown makes them all seem a little more mysterious and... y'know, alien. We definitely won't be getting any answers from this series, though, the director doesn't seem interested in giving out any of those.
@@princessmaly thank you for sharing, i'll have to pick up the novel. i didn't think to look for one, which i should have, because i honestly like Covenant quite a bit. i watch it from a Blade Runner perspective, as though it's more about the psychology of synthetics than an origin story for xenomorphs.
I agree that there is almost an analogy between how the goo re-configures the infected's DNA, and how the xeno-embreo takes on characteristics of its host. it does make me ask if the black goo is the spark in the primordial soup, like a virus or parasite that has no will of its own but merely performs a function of reorganizing a design to better fit its environment. in a way the xenomorph are the perfect organism- mindless, without will, without moral judgements, single minded and efficient, and so an evolutionary eventuality- but it doesn't account for the other side of life: the experience of existing. the things that get us out of bed in the morning. the things David wrestles with.
Touching on other things i too think Shaw's eggs/reproductive organs were an important component in David's experiments. i love thinking about all these things but yeah at the same time i don't want answers because too many writers sort of phone it in and give off-handed answers that become canon.
I appreciate that you give your opinions on this, a lot of channels try to be impartial and only report on developments in the franchise.
I loved Prometheus although it would’ve worked well as being its own thing and not tied into the Alien franchise.
Covenant was horrendous though; not a lot actually happens and then it’s over. Going down to a new planet without helmets or suits where native flora/fauna/pathogens/hazards can easily kill you - which then actually happens!! - is INSANE. Plus you’re introducing Earth pathogens into an alien ecosystem and could doom all life on the planet. It’s the only film I’ve ever wanted to walk out of in the cinema. And James Franco as “the crispy captain” with no real screen time? What a waste!!
Someone needs to call Batman to come sort out Riddler Scott before he makes an even bigger mess.
i want more of the Engineer