Is A Modern XC Bike Faster Than A 10 Year Old Downhill Bike?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- In recent times, cross country courses have adapted and evolved - gnarly descents, big drops, and much more technical trails have pushed both bikes and riders to new levels. Modern XC bikes are more capable than they've ever been, especially when it comes to going downhill.
This got Rich Payne thinking - could a modern day XC bike beat a 10-year-old downhill bike? He pitted his latest Canyon Lux Trail XC steed against a 2014 Nukeproof Scalp to see what could make it down a black downhill run at BikePark Wales fastest!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:00 - Welcome To Another GMBN Test!
0:15 - The Downhill Bike | Nukeproof Scalp
2:16 - The Modern XC Bike | Canyon Lux Trail
4:50 - Let’s Look At The Results
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What bike would you rather ride downhill? A Downhill Bike or an XC Bike?
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please ride fort william and report back. this is not a downhill track.
It’s amazing how far bikes have come in such a short time. I have a Transition Spur built pretty light but it amazes me how capable it is for it’s 120mm. Not only that I’m out doing some epic rides on it with almost the speed of a XC rig but the added comfort of something that feels like it has much more travel. The so called down country bike for me is where it’s at, they do everything extremely well without the burden of all that extra weight.
It would be interesting to do a comparison with a modern Enduro Hardtail versus an old full suspension downhill bike
Please do test on a proper downhill track. BPW is simply not steep enough, with too many flat sections.
Ideally a trail similar to what was being raced at the same time period?
Older American mtb events like Downieville Classic would be almost made for modern XC bikes. You have to ride the XC and DH races on the same bike
not a dh track
Its mainly the wheel size that gave the xc bike its advantage...geometry will not play a big part unless its on a proper dh track
As you said in the end: the DH bike still outperforms a xc bike when it gets rough.
Makes sense. 67.5 degree head angle can do quite a bit geo wise but the lack of suspension will hammer you. There would be many more "oh shi--" incidents as well. Luckily old DH bikes can be picked up for under 1k usd, and with a modern derailleur can go 1x10 with a 30-12/42. Which in my experience gives good range for uphill climbs.
A 1x10 is what I put on my 2009 V10 and a dropper, mainly coz it's my only bike now 🤘🏻
Until now im still riding my old 2008 specialized bighit 26"...
🤣🤣🤣... 😎🤙🚴
Is this like the, when you're a kid and you get a new pair of "I can run loads faster now" trainers?
My initial thoughts at the start we're hopeful for the XC and wondering what the track was. Would like to see it on a proper DH track. We all know DH bikes are terrible on any other track, but like the main testing principle of this video, always wonder what bike you could get away with for DH. Especially for those of us with only one bike. I got a 2012 demo8 giving up any want to ride normal trails, but would love the idea of having old school DH performance on a newer bike that is better all around. Which also leads to could you also do this against a modern enduro? I got a chance to use a Bronson down a 14k meter mountain and almost made me want to "upgrade".
Another thing that affects the results is Rich doesn't ride 26" anymore so is used to the modern bike.
So you're telling me that the 10yr old bike didn't explode killing you? That's not what I've read online
#GMBN You are show casing how far XC bikes have come, cool. As I have asked before, give us a current DH vs Super Enduro/Free Ride on a real downhill track. Be specialized with the DH or can the SE/FR be just as capable while giving you flexibility for other things? That will actually be beneficial to viewers and sure to spark debate.
When this video was put together, you could have just done this at Red Bull Hardline
I ride down street in the city and wouldn’t trade it for anything.. my Intense 951 custom build is insane even though I broke the rear triangle at the bottom at the cnc part of the triangle but that’s nothing a little piece of 5/16 thick 6061 to fix by welding it completely filled in were it was machined out and now it’s stronger than ever and I fixed it myself so it’s done right..
I like the Syerra tires.
A better test would be: Rich on a modern d/h bike vs Dunne or BK on a vintage d/h bike, on the Hardline course.
Dunne will win by 20 seconds..
It would be interesting to try and maximize the performance of the XC bike with some minor changes. Enduro or DH tires make a huge difference on that type of bike vs. XC tires. It is possible it could make it slower due to reducing its advantage on flat, smoother sections, but would be interesting to see. Shorter stem, higher bars. I've raced several enduros on a 110/120mm Devinci with similar changes and it was pretty damn capable. Comparatively fast as hell on XC tires, but as you noted, quite scary and you are more likely to grab a ton of brake when things get serious.
I think you should try it with an older DH bike. Something that has similar suspension travel and head angle. And maybe use a modern trail bike with a shorter travel suspension around 120- 130 mm. I think that would be a really good comparison. Plus, I would hate to see you break your XC bike on something really ruff.
Which one is faster down red bull hardline 👍🏼🌶
That is a "black downhill track"? UK is soft, lol. Looks like a north shore green/blue. No wonder the DH bike felt slow.
Were both having same type of bearings? Think that Lux Trail would have high end ones maybe ceramic? That alone makes a difference accelerating or just going down.
The difference in speed between metal and ceramic bearings is fuck all.
I'd like to see modern "Trail" bike verse old school DH, Enduro and XC bikes on their native trails. Is a modern "Trail" a better all-arounder bike? I have a Trail bike and feel it could tackle just about any trail, it a more flexible bike than any of the older more focused bike, but is just as good as the others at their focus or have edge on the "trail" bike.
And this is why I’ll be sitting in the middle on my new bike. 135mm rear, 150 front.
GMBN, bringing back a classic vid like death grip challenge would be soooo rad!!🤟 who wants to see death grip challenge 3!!?👇
great video guys
I still find 29" wheels look so weird on a bike compared to 26" or 27.5". They just look so big.
depends on the size of the bike. If you have a huge enduro sled with 480mm reach, full 27,5 looks a bit small proportionally. Shorter, smaller bikes tend to look better with smaller wheels.
The Lux Trail is "down country", the Lux (without the "Trail") is an XC bike
Semantic shift
XC wheelbase isn't even that long really, probably standard for XC though? If you had a slammed saddle angled back on the DH in flat pedal sections, you'd loose tons of time. Regardless the obserations are relevant, Q on an eudro bike of the same vintage VS DH bike, what would the times be?
Should have also done it on a modern DH bike
They always say it's the rider not the bike! I think Rich could take pretty much any suspension MTB down that hill and be within a similar time especially as it's his go-to line and knows it like the back of his hand! What about doing the same test but on a line you don't know (are there any?😂).
He is such a good rider so he will probably get almost the same score on a kids bike 😊
"Steeper HA doesn't put the front wheel as far out front of you," "however, longer reach and wheelbase"... confusing line. What if you kept the front wheel as far from the crank, but slackened out the HTA? Doesn't that mean a shorter reach and maybe a lower stack height? What are the trade-offs in ride, then?
Why not make it a fair test and also do a run on a course the XC bike is designed for? lol. Id love to see anybody pedal the DH bike up a steep climb 😂
Not a fair test there.. not steep enough.. not dh bike worthy.. rode dh 1st... so got eye in for the trail..
Isnt this boxer more like 15-20 years?
Yes it is. To the extent that an xc racer can show up to an enduro and win on an epic Evo, because it's all pedaling and uphill.
29 sec ago is crazy
Depends on the track. Come on.
Yes, depends on the also
C'mon Rich, 10mm is less than 1/2 inch! How do you feel all that difference in .380 of an inch???
10mm is 1cm, not 10cm 😉
@@b.hofmann6271 Hey genius .....10mm EQUALS .3937008 of an inch....Ya know LESS THAN HALF AN INCH!!! Better get a new calculator...
#askgmbn what’s the most accurate way to stopwatch a run?
Welcome to Biking in genreal , road, gravel, MTB all getting faster , higher further, lighter.
IIRC Early DH bikes had tracks made exclusively of sections that equaled the sections that were fun on the DH bike. Tight forests, large drops and gnarly stuff.
The track test was a mix of all, which is normally XC territory: A little of everything
Racing someone else's DH bike which may also be the wrong size for you vs riding your own personal well fitting XC bike you use a lot and are familiar with would of also made a difference. Not going to mention all the other scewed factors as the chat section has mentioned many of the issues in this video and test. Also if you are going to try to explain stack height, wheel length, chain stays and any other measurement maybe add arrows pointing to the areas you are talking about on the stills for the people who have no clue what you are on about
test it on a proper dh track man ,,,...like wtf is this
and a proper xc bike. Instead they took a version of an xc bike that has +20mm travel and 1.5 deg slacker ha. Hell we had bikes like this in the past. Hell one can probably find a Niner 29 ich trailbike with similar stats to the look. So it's not "modern vs old" but "we picked bikes and tracks specifically for this result"
What about an uphill though? Not even a proper one...
@@user-qy8ph8tf3d why uphil? Do you purposefully have the weirdest arguments ever? It's a dh bike. It was not designed to go up
@@NotADuncon because a DH bike is a one trick pony and it deserves to be mentioned. Espescially when compared to trail bike ("downcountry bike"), which is not. Not that this comparison is really needed, but if you're going to do it - do it properly.
@@user-qy8ph8tf3d So you argue with me at first and then literally come to the same conclusion as my initial comment? That this isn't a proper comparison because it tests the bikes outside of their intended use.
Jesus people who argue for the point of arguing are so annoying
Not gonna argue that modern geometries are (sometimes) better than old ones but this test is a joke.
Of course a DH bike will fall behind on this kind of track, I bet you even a modern DH rig will not be significantly faster here than an XC bike. However, if you were doing a fair comparison of how capable a modern XC bike is, compared to an old DH bike, you would have ridden not only 1 track but progressively made the terrain more challenging to ride to see when the XC bike eventually falls behind. And I bet you that old Nukeproof can still handle terrain this Canyon will barely be able to ride down in a straight line. I mean I could also compare a modern DH bike to a modern XC bike, pick a random single track and call it a day. But that’s just biased. Your test was just biased, otherwise you would have picked a different trail.
I think your channel has become more of a Canyon sales pitch than an honest biking channel. Pretty sure deep down you know that this test was everything but fair.
The worst part is that it's not an an XC bike. It's a downcountry bike. A downhill oriented version of Canyons true XC bike.
I unsubscribed after this vid as GMBN is basically a channel that feeds clickbait to Joeys
This! It was all about Nukeproof last year , now they have Canyon as their main paymasters , it's " look how much better this canyon is " this used to be my go to channel for bike tips and content, until I realised how quickly they will flip flop on their own content when the sponsors say so!!! Such a shame , but it's clear to see
I used my 200 quid rim braked Carrera Vulcan on rockier UK tracks 13 years ago. And a worse (bought new) 2005 Mongoose Amasa Comp in Rotorua for 3 years. POS bikes but easily doable.
Gee, 2 seconds difference on not a true downhill course...didn't mention tire choices either.
6runs 3 o each bike. Then take the average
Good idea this! Why people are moaning in the comments i don't know. Just gotta face facts, a modern xc bike is a weapon compared to the old dh bike. We should be embracing the modern bikes and appreciating the old ones.
This is a 10 year old dh bike not a 20 year old dh bike. The difference in tech is small. Modern dh bikes simply have bigger wheels and longer reach.
So no lets not face anything. You don't know what makes a difference here which is wheelsize but probably very much tires too (lighter, less tacky tires will roll better). It's a flat track. On easy trails trailbikes were faster than dh bikes even in 2010. This isn't a new vs old test really. There were trails where a Specialized Pitch was faster than a DH bikes in the past.
I agree, I'm not sure why this triggered so many egos. At the end of the day it doesn't even matter, it's just content.
Moaning because it was a pointless comparison. It's like comparing a WRC car vs an F1 car in a parking lot.
@@KP-ol3tc That's the problem. That GMBN is pretending to be selling advice while they are a content farm.
Also using "triggered" to dissmiss people being critical of shit is childish.
Yes DH bike is slower on XC track like XC bike...
that rear tyre on the DH bike looks worn out....what cassette has the DH got 7 speed? did you use the same amount of gear on the xc bike?..........give the DH a full service and freshen up put the DON on it and re-run the race
That era of saint is either 9 or 10 speed and would be fast enough for pedalling on flats. Main issue is the tire for rolling resistance on the smoother sections.
@@impaledface7694 so much this. Heavy, tacky tires will roll like SHIIIIIT on smooth sections. I had a DH bike setup for max grip and fun on steep tracks and on mellow trails I would probably overtake it on a tricycle it rolled so bad.
you always do this, change the tyres so they are on the same rubber outherwise theses tests are pointless. And while you are at it put short stem on the xc bike
Considering in 2014 that nukeproof rode like crap anyway compared to the gt fury or v10 of the same year this video was a joke start to finish
GTs didn't ride good, stop kidding yourself.
@@Metal-Possum an xl gt fury vs a small nukeproof dh bike would of made him a lot faster. On that test
Geometry plays a big part in it! You're so squashed on that downhill bike. Your confidence goes down.
your confidence goes down on a dh bike?
The XC bike will be fast downhill once 😈
Apples to oranges…Pretty sure a modern DH would test the same.
Moot point👎
My guess was the XC bike would edge out the old DHer. 29" wheels are faster than 26".
Answer is no, if it's in good order a DH from 10 yrs ago will still be more capable and durable than a modern trail bike.
Any opposite result is Rich's personal issues 😂
Lmaoo bro your a xc rider of course your xc is gunna do better
First 😂
that looks like a green/blue trail in most of the world. embarrassing, no wonder you have 2mil subs and no higher than 50k views on most of your recent videos.
This is just content for the sake of content. The nukey was built for fort bill, dyfi, antur stiniog etc. Take that xc bike there & you'll die trying to match times.
Take a bikepark/freeride bike to bpw & it will annihilate both of these.
This is just a BS test unfortunately.
Slack over chonk for the win
mtboomer channel strikes again
This video is crap. Bad comparison. Dh has different wheel and tire sizes. And more weight.
So a too small downhill bike is slower on a flat connecting track than a DOWNCOUNTRY bike? GMBN needs to stop posting dumb clickbaity "controversial" content. The only thing that changed with downhill bikes in 10 years is reach and wheel size. Only now we are getting 6 bar suspension and high pivots but those are marginal gains and would not be felt here. So a modern downhill bike on the same track would not be that much faster. Go to a proper DH track, preferably you don't know by hard so you need extra comfort.
You seriously did everything to make this result end up like this. Track choice and not a full on XC bike (canyons XC racing bike has a 1.5 deg steeper HA for example). FFs this is why I watch less and less of your content. It's like a tabloid but for bikes.
And what kind of DH tracks do you have at your doorstep? I don't have anything that resembles a redbull hardline anywhere around. If you need to travel 5 hours to get to those tracks you can probably rent DH bike there and save yourself a lot of trouble. Those 5 hour travels to ride your bike won't happen more than a couple times per season
You’re not making the argument you think you are making. What you are basically saying is that you don’t have dh tracks at your doorstep and you never needed a dh bike
@@NotADuncon Kind of, but not only. I don't think that anyone thinks and roots for buying an XC bike if the only focus of riding is DH. It is quite obvious that you are better off with a DH bike if you ride bikeparks with uplifts all the time.
I think that this video focuses more on guys like me, who don't do DH 90%+ time, but consider DH bikes for ~20% of our riding. And those 20% are more than doable with a modern XC bike. At least that was my takeaway from it
@@user-qy8ph8tf3d If those are doable on a modern XC bike (and THIS ISN"T AN XC BIKE!!! so the video is doubly misleading) then you don't need a DH bike. Again proving the point this is a dumb video. It's like taking 2 cars to a gravel road and racing them when 1 of them is a full on, off road jeep and then going "off road jeep is slower" when it wasn't made for gravel roads but for serious off road.
This test doesn't measure a DH bike on a track it was made for. Simple as that. So it's not a valid comp.
The video doesn't really focus on anyone. Comparison vids with shocking assumptions are just good for views. The point of the video isn't to help anyone but to get as many views as possible.
A good comparison would be talking what bike people need for most trails. Which for most people is probably a 150mm trailbike that's burly enough to survive riding bikeparks (a downcountry bike might be faster but probably won't last long enough).
Hell this is a reason why I don't have a DH bike anymore. Not because it's "slower" but because the trails near me don't warrant a DH bike.
Ps. It's more that trailbikes will be faster on mellow trails and it not just the wheelsize. I had a 2001 trailbike that was faster on mellower trails than some 2008 dh bikes.
I don’t race and don’t care
seriously running out of subjects
The result does not surprise me. As long as "rolling" and maintaining or regaining speed is the main issue, the XC bike will be faster. It's when grip and control come into play, the DH bike will excell. I have blue trails here where I will always be faster on my 10 year old Lux than on my Enduro bike. But once the surface gets more unpredictable, rougher and steeper the reserves of the Enduro take over and I stand noh chance with the XC bike. Your trail let's both bikes meet on the "middle ground" thus the close result.