I bought a used 2012 Leaf to save money while starting a new business ($150 less per month on gas.) I was planning on getting a Maserati or an R8 late next year but, after driving the Leaf for a couple of months, I think I may buy a Tesla.
Got a Leaf, not only for the savings in fuel, not to be "green", because it simply works nice. No noise, no vibration, effortless smooth steering, smooth FAST acceleration. Hard to explain, you need to try one.
i think with all the car magazines putting out similar reviews on the same car...features like this differentiate caranddriver and help it keep subscriptions and gain new ones. i enjoyed it!
You know the thing about electric cars (or anything with a battery at that) is that constant feeling you get by knowing that when it's over, it's really over and you have always a few hours of waiting to do. Cool video! Wouldn't have imagined just different tires could make a Leaf pull a corner like that!
The new Nissan Leaf 2013 is real close. 0-60 in 9 seconds. Base price 28k, but costs ~18.5k after tax incentives. Driving range improved to 84 miles at 100% up from 73 miles in the 2012 version. Nissan introducing L3 chargers at dealerships this year to get to 80% charge (66 miles) in 20 minutes.
Now lower the Leaf and stiffen up the suspension, strip the interior and put in lightweight racing seats. It will be an absolute beast. Also, incidentally, I've been driving a Leaf (almost identical to this one, in stock form) for 3 years and love it.
I have a both a LEAF for my DD and a WRX for fun. The LEAF is a very enjoyable car! It's quick, comfortable and incredibly pragmatic. They are polar opposites in many ways and at the same time compliment each other. Great cars in their own right.
I've driven dozens of cars over my life including several sporty models but driving the Leaf is defnitely the most fun. The smoothness of the acceleration due to no transmission (speed is controlled by how much electricity flows to the engine) and the fast and quiet acceleration from the 480W battery pack is loads of fun. The low center of gravity due to the battery pack located under the floor provides for great handling around corners. You can actually hear all the frequencies of music on the radio while driving instead of the annoying engine sounds. You can also park your car in the garage and keep the engine running without suffocating from any poisonous fumes! Heating the interior doesn't rely on the engine to get hot so in the cold winter days you get instant heat! It costs me around $1.00 in charging costs for every 100 miles of driving so in essence I'm getting 300 miles per gallon! Try that with your combustion car or hybrid. I'm getting really tired of people making the Leaf sound boring and slow. For those who doubt it take it for a test drive and make sure you don't drive in Eco mode. Floor the pedal from a stop sign and feel how you get thrown back in your seat. If you have the cash you can get yourself a Tesla and go from 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds.
Every car has limited range. Some are just more limited than others. Also, the gasoline infrastructure has had 100 years to be built and is everywhere. But you still have to stop and fill up once in a while. The Nissan Leaf doesn't have to go anywhere to charge up because you can do that in your garage. Imagine always waking up to a full tank. The Leaf is not a sports car but this test proves that any electric car can become fun. BTW you're smiling most of the time you are dissing the Leaf.
Car and Driver get that Leaf and throw in a Rinehart PM150 150KW AC Motor controller to replace the Nissan one that slowly limits motor power to 80KW and do a mashup again! keep the motor adequately cooled and you would have a 911 killer! Dont believe me? the Siemens Azure 47kW transit connect motors are being over-driven at 100-150kW by many enthusiasts, proving to be reliable and are being sold as "LS drop in replacements". I can only imagine what you can do with a 80kW rated leaf motor! We are only in the infancy of electric car modding.
even STOCK I get 0-60 in 9 seconds with the ecopia tires. the thing is a BEAST even with the limiters in place. at least compared to anything else I have ever driven. the car is SCARY fun to drive. Scary because I need to be careful when I get into any of my other cars which don't go or stop anywhere REMOTELY as fast as the leaf does.
Torque steer too. I warn folks who drive my 2012 not to floor it from a stop and steer sharply- the bloody thing scared the shite out of me the first time I did that. I’ve also driven Quattros all my life so PerHaps some of it is the newness / limitations of FWD.
I have an LEAF. Actually two of them. And a modified, 600 HP BMW M3 e90. And 72 Cougar, 51 Cadillac, BMW 328i F30 and 88 Fiat 126P. I love to drive every one of them, but around the city LEAF is my number one choice. Small, quick at the traffic lights without the drama and noise of the other cars, cheap to run, easy to "fuel", roomy inside - what's not to like about it? OK, ugly, cheap plastics everywhere and ergonomics from hell, but my 51 Caddy has painted steel for as dashboard and 72 Cougar has even worse ergonomics, so I can live with it.
I really want a leaf now cuz I'm from nyc and I am so fed of spending on gas. When.you mentioned quick off the traffic lights, I guess that is because of the instant torque right. That is probably the best part about the ride.
We have a Leaf, and have had fun with it in an Autocross. Just put Pirelli P7 summer tires on it which gets us the first step there. We also imported a Tein coil over suspension upgrade from Japan and it's lower and stiffer than a stock Leaf. The most fun is at the lights, the car makes no noise if you floor it and steps off quickly with no gear changes (8s or less to 60), so we always scoot away ahead of everyone else. It's no Porsche, but the Leaf is definitely fun to drive.
The fun with the Leaf starts at the fuel pump, when the insurance must get paid, or the car needs to go the garage for maintenance! When all these bills must be paid you will feel the fun towards the porsche!! Don't get me wrong ..I like Posches a lot but the running costs are hugh and not funny at all!!
Thanks CarandDriver! I have S. Drives on my '04 Civic and love them and have been skeptical on how much better extreme performance summer tires could be, this was an excellent demonstration! Also, if I bought an electric car, it would be nice if it had a selection of engine noises in the audio system that are synchronized with the heaviness of my right foot, just to give it that combustion engine sensation! :D
There's no necessary oil input in a LEAF. It takes energy to make it - aluminum production for example takes a lot of electricity - but it can totally come from the sun, or any other renewable. Yes, petroleum currently is "everywhere". And no, it needn't be that way. Which is good, since otherwise a bright future would simply be impossible. That we're running out of oil eventually is after all a mathematical certainty (and we should stop burning the stuff long before we run out of it unless we're suicidal as a species).
I bought 2 of these this weekend. Love them. This is the best $/G-force ratio so far. I smoke a e36 m3 of the light until about his 3rd gear, when it's time to slow down (over speed limit)
I would like to see more of this where you try to make a leaf feel/respond like a Porsche within reason. For instance change out the rims, what can be done to the motor for more performance, what about lowering the car, etc, etc.
I have had my 2011 LEAF for over a year. It is lowered and modified with imported Tein coilovers, Enkei wheels and performance tires. The mods made a huge difference, like you said, and it is super fun to drive. It is smooth and sporty, but more than that when I spin the tires and leave the other cars at the stoplight like they're standing still you tend to attract gawkers. Which is OK because when they see that it's an EV, it changes their perceptions just a bit... Slowly but surely.
I believe Ballbeam because I have a Nissan Leaf and it's a monster against most all gasoline cars if not all of them, the electric torque is what kills the gas cars at the light.. Even if your not trying to race anyone.. It's just a big surprise for a lot of people that the Nissan Leaf is a speedy car but we leaf owners don't like to show off.. We're conservatives.. Smooth and classy, our leafs save us money time and makes our world a lot different then the one who that haven't experienced a smooth drive in a leaf. Just wait until I post a video of mine all in black rims and looking sporty, just to let you know that we made such a good choice of buying one of the best cars in the market! Just watch !
It is also the case that EV drivers tend to use more of the available torque - because you *can* go full power and still look like a civilized driver! Unlike with an ICE it doesn't make you wonder if you're "hurting" the car and it isn't a noisy and vibrating experience. It's just as smooth as any lower-power accelleration. I almost always floor my LEAF at the lights - the exception being if I need to look after my range. Here in Norway people aren't often surprised anymore (EV adoption having come quite far) but it's still fun to pull away from folks who spent two to three times as much on their wheels (EVs are cheap in Norway compared to ICE).
Just bought the 2012 LEAF SL. Car is awesome! It responds well and takes off like a rocket ship. Why this guy is shitting all over the Leaf is beyond me. Car is great, fun and has a lot to offer.
it takes off like a rocket and handles great "compared" to the crap we normally drive. Consider. I have well over 2 million miles under my belt and I have NEVER in my life driven a car as fast to go and as fast to stop as my leaf. it PALES in comparison to "real" sports cars which is what guys like this are used to driving and comparing it too. I thought his review was pretty darned fair and good overall. Positive overall too. Good job car and driver. I REALLY want to take the doors off my leaf now. it looks pretty damned neat like that I have to say!
I just bought a 2014 LEAF...it's charging for free in my newly designated work parking spot with a charge point. I will drive it home later today and plug it into my 10kwh solar system, again charging for free. First impressions: It's very fun to drive, smooth, quiet and can pass everything including a petrol station. When weighing up the economics, I was formerly spending $500 per month in petrol. Add to that $1800 in annual maintenance for a total monthly running cost of approximately $650/month (if I simply calculate the commute to work) Even if I financed the vehicle the monthly cost would drop to $400/month. It represents massive savings, while providing a very economical, comfortable and enthusiastic commuter that loves it when the traffic gets a bit 'stop and go' for that regenerative braking gift that keeps on giving. Can't wipe the smile off my face right now. Oh yeah...and saving the planet and all the greenie stuff.
You are correct if looking at a standpoint of vehicle production. But if you are already in the market for a new car, then there are obvious differences in which one will be better for the environment.
very educational, it was nice seeing the difference in tire behavior. It would of been nice to see the results of the leaf after more tuning but this was enough to prove the point.
My car "LADA Kalina 2" has ordinary tyres "Kama-217" ($30), and it can reach 1.0G too. It can reach speed 35 km/h moving along the circle R=10m. The cars like Porsche-911 are not so maneuverable as fast.
"What would it take for YOU to buy an electric car?" ...and one month after this video was posted, the Tesla Model S started delivering to customers, and the rest was history.
I'm go glad they did a segment like this. When Nissan introduced the Leaf, little did they know it would become the best selling electric car in America 7 or 8 years later. The Leaf is a perfect candidate for this segment because of the instant torque on takeoff.........as with all electric cars. But why should the fun just stop at the instant torque factor?? This segment really help show the performance potential for all electric cars.
I have lowered my Nissan LEAF with TEIN coilovers from Japan, replaced the wheels and tires with larger, wider versions. I assure you it could do 1 g on the skidpad. LEAFs can also beat many "muscle cars" at the Autocross. You have heard that EVs have 100% torque at 0 RPM, but you won't know what that FEELS like until you drive one. I highly recommend it.
Years ago I thought owning a 240sx would put the joy back in driving for me. It turns out getting stuck in traffic (particularly in a car with a heavy clutch) is just not fun no matter what you are driving. However, in my Leaf, I get to drive in the car pool lane, pass gas stations, and save money, that's a different kind of fun! I'll pass that savings on to a Miata for weekends.
Electricity costs vary from state to state, but a typical full charge in a leaf ranges from about $2 to $4. If you triple the Leaf's range to about 300 miles so its more comparable to a gas powered vehicle that comes out to $6-$12 for a full charge. You can also gauge by comparing the leafs MPGe to a normal cars MPG. 115MPGe in the leaf is about triple that of a gas powered car so you only use 1/3 the energy. The cost to make up for gas depends on how much you drive, but it's all worth it.
A. LEAF stands for Leading Environmentaly Affordable Family car. B. its not a sports car. How about you take that Porsche and compare it to the Nissan GTR which is a sports car. and the LEAF costs about as much as a third of a porsche. The benefit of the LEAF A. no gas B. it has 100% torque all the time.
My dad actually owns a Tesla s and it is possibly the coolest car ever. He constantly tells me he could never go back to internal combustion engine cars. Part of that is the fact that there's no turbo lag or anything like that its just press and go .i feel like electric cars are really the future and the right one can get you going just like a normal ICE car.
You guys should do a leaf project car. Change the tires (like in this episode), change the shocks (is possible), brakes, roll cage, stripped out back seats and maybe an old Honda F1 spoiler. Then pit it against something like a Mustang or BMW.
Yes, a Leaf can be fast in the right hands and the right setup...... I took my wife's 2011 Leak to an Event held with the SCCA at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on a custom SCCA Road Ciruit. I now hold the track record for the Hybrid and Electric Class...2 Years the record has held....... :)
I am a EV Sales Manager for Nissan North America and this car has 100% torque at 0 RPM's compared to sports cars which have to be at 4900 RPM's to get a 90% torque. I am currently driving one as a demo and this car is by far the best car I've ever owned. Nissan has done a great job at designing and keeping everything in line to make this the World Car Of The Year(Once Again) REAL NUMBERS 95% of people drive less than 70 miles a day 70% of those people drive less than 40 a day. Do the Math!!!
The Leaf(2013) will have 103 mile range, and given that you have access to quick chargers, it charges from emty to full in 3-4 hours. Without, its around 7 hours. It sounds like alot, but thats from 0 to 100% charge. And keep in mind you wake up to a full charge every day, virtually free, and in a few years there will be charging stations everywere. Which means you can top off your battery basically everywere you stop, at work, at the gym, at the diner. Its mostly just range anxiety.
I have a lead and I was messing around with it and turned a 90 degree corner at "a" speed (too fast) I heard a lot of tyre squeal and understeer and I have a dashcam that records G's and I got 0.86G with stock tyres....
It's a tire comparison. Not a 911 vs leaf. The 911 simply benchmarks a sports cars skid pad figures. Having the 911 in the video just adds entertainment value
what the hell? if you want to pit an electric vs a porsche get a tesla, a leaf is the family car of electrics, I'm surprised it did that well with just a tire upgrade. If you want to mod for a true "sports car" version of a leaf it needs: performance suspension, larger higher Kw performance motor with slightly different gearing, and new tires. If you did that you'd probably outperform a porsche with it. would love to see an updated version of this with a truly modded "sport" version of a nissan leaf.
I guess the point was to show how much the car's characteristics could change "simply" by running racing-style tires on it (something you'd be incredibly stupid to do in real life, since thoes tires would be outright dangerous in conditions where you most need grippy tires - on very wet roads or in snow and ice conditions).
which makes sense, I just did not like the comparison of tan orange to a steak, the tire change to get sportier performance makes sense, the vehicle comparison does not.
I read what you wrote, but all my mind heard was: "I would never be caught dead buying a gas car. I've driven one, it's relaxing, but I couldn't own one as a daily driver. It's far too quiet and boring for me. I need to hear the snorting horse, the creaking saddle, and feel the bucking from the gallop of the horse! (etc . . . )" Given enough time, the complaints of those resisting change all start to seem silly with hindsight.
Just ordered a Leaf. Got sick of paying for gas. Leaf monthly payment is actually less what my gas bill used to be. So in effect I get a brand new car for what I used to pay for gas in my old car! Now I will have two EVs and only 1 gas car! YEAH!
Agreed, this is a tire comparison, not a car comparison. To answer your question, I have already bought an electric. A Leaf in fact. I wish it were a Tesla S, but I can't justify the price yet. The Tesla DOES show you what an electric can do. Perhaps you could compare a Tesla S to the Porsche. For now I am satisfied with using an all electric Leaf for my mundane commute to work. As Tecnam Twin comments, electric cars are refreshingly new and that really appeals to me too.....wait a few years.
Nice comparison. I'm guessing the next in the series will be "Hammer vs. socket wrench". . . "Sure, this boring old hammer does it's job just fine, but it just doesn't turn bolts as well as this shiny sexy socket wrench. Let's see if we can get it turn bolts better by duct-taping these sockets to the hammer head. Because hammers don't deserve respect unless they can turn bolts."
We have a Nissan Leaf in Scotland, UK. apart from the lack of feel from the electric steering it's quite fun to drive and is a lot faster then my Renault Clio in a 1/4 mile drag or on a twisty mountain road.
Possibly the best thing about the Tesla is that it wears its batteries under the floorboard, flat. Not only does it free up a huge amount of space, but it puts the center of gravity of the car right about axle level, and gives the car a smooth bottom for major aerodynamic efficiency. Other e-car makers would do well to emulate. Tesla licenses its battery tech...
I agree with foxrace below, the Leaf needed suspension changes too. I am very interested in energy efficiency, and a nice quiet ride, so I would definitely buy an electric car. The Leaf is a good size, relatively low weight, and a very practical hatchback. However, it needs to be a sports car: more fun and engaging at any speed. Having numb steering, poor handling and fading brakes is not a requirement to be energy efficient. Perhaps a NISMO package with Brembos, Konis, and forged wheels.
I think Sport Compact Magazine has already done something along these lines with a Yaris S Sedan. Changed the suspension and tires so it hit 1.2g or so. But I could care less about skidpad numbers. That's not what the best handlers are about. Changing the tires is all well and good, but is only a small part of the equation for a proper handling car. That doesn't mean the car should be one of the Integra's that bounces more then PamAn's chest just driving down the interstate, though.
Also, very low running costs, tires are about the only thing that wears out or needs any regular maintenance (brakes get almost no wear due to regenerative engine braking) and we have solar panels so are running on the sun.
I don't know about you, but the whine of a BIG electric motor stands my hair on end. Take the Tesla Model S Performance which has already beat the BMW M5 and the Mercedes E63 AMG in 0-100 mph sprints. It is shockingly fast and exciting! Even the sound of a Nissan Leaf, Ford Focus EV, or Chevy Volt gets me excited, not because of the speed, or lack thereof, but because it represents a refreshingly new experience. Quick, quiet, smooth, serene, effortless, and efficiency are very desirable traits.
They should have tried tuning the suspension. The leafs battery pack gives it a very low center of gravity. I bet some performance shocks could have given it much better road handling.
There are days that I don't drive, but when I do, I average out about 400 miles a day; now, if I could do that in a fun, entertaining way in an electric car (the ampera is a good try although I don't get tingles when I drive it) I would get one. I want my car to be able to drive from Brussels to Oslo in one day, stop over, have a nap, drive back.
According to the outdated European test cycle, VW makes some cars that get 70+ on the HWY, however very hard to get in real life, and these have 1.2L 3 cylinder diesel engines.
Something not mentioned is how no matter how kany upgrades ev fail to do consecutive laps. Loses half the horsepower by the time 1 lap is finished in laguna seca for example. And is really heavy so it takes corners really slow.
I would buy an electric car if I had a real sports car for the weekend... And on top of that my wife would need to have a gas-powered family size car for family road trips, of which I am fond. In principle alone I love the idea of an electric car - torquey, smooth, quiet, not reliant on OPEC... I also enjoyed the part about tires in general. It's true - tires change the spirit of any car.
What this test proves is that lower speeds a LEAF is a fun car to drive and can hang with the best!! I can beat just about anything off a light in my LEAF. The low end torque is what makes the difference.
Wish I could buy a leaf but I need the infrastructure to catch up schools to include university and high school need to have the chargers. Then lots need to be created for electric cars in order for them to re charge. Then ill buy a leaf.
The energy isn't green, no doubt about that. However the lithium batteries have no toxic chemicals. Lithium is a natural mineral. It's mining is simple; remove several feet of surface from a former lake bed in brazil, that's it. The water polluted by hydrofracking is much worse. You're right, practicality versus cost is still not quite there. It's incredibly close, however. Sony has developed a lithium battery 10% the weight of lead acid. 10k cycles before landfill. Toxco recycles them.
Just test drove this week end Wow what a ride the Ac was great it was 106' out side and 70 in the car but at $38000 out of my game $17000 and I'm in You got to go try one
Cool video! It ruins every track time comparison on the lightning lap contest. It proves that to realy check if one car is better than the other we have to do hot laps with the same tires on all cars
The Nissan Leaf is built in Tennessee bro. Do your research. As our grid gradually shifts to solar/nuclear/wind/geothermal/hydro and eventually fusion electric cars will be the obvious choice. As battery energy density continues to improve we'll get cheap electric cars with hundreds of miles of range & fast DC charging. We've got nearly 200k EVs on the road worldwide after 2-3 years not so bad.
I think the question is, "what would it take to get me to buy a gas-powered car?" I've driven gas, and I've driven electric (no hybrids, though), and I definitely prefer electric. They drive so much better. The LEAF is a nice car, but I prefer the Mitsubishi i instead. It's easier to see out of, drives much better, is smaller, about $5,000 cheaper, and arguably performs better than the LEAF.
answer: when EV's start out performing normal cars....perception will change. You just proved it with skidpad testing, improve the performance simularly at good value and they'll fly off the lots
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I can't wait for the 2012 NL I just baught. It's not just the gas or the saving as such. I want to see it's affect on my driving, and I want to be a part of the progress I hope it will bring. I am hoping it will lead us to a new future of the individual automobile. The conventional motor is litle over 100 years old invention, and it's time might be up in few years to come. I want to be ahead of my surrounding and change to EVs this year!
I bought a used 2012 Leaf to save money while starting a new business ($150 less per month on gas.) I was planning on getting a Maserati or an R8 late next year but, after driving the Leaf for a couple of months, I think I may buy a Tesla.
up next: Ford Fusion vs Lamborghini Aventador
Followed up by push-bike versus fighter jet... XD
ZeHoSmusician stay tuned for lawn mower vs bloodhound ssc
Nissan Altima vs Ferrari Enzo.
Got a Leaf, not only for the savings in fuel, not to be "green", because it simply works nice. No noise, no vibration, effortless smooth steering, smooth FAST acceleration. Hard to explain, you need to try one.
i think with all the car magazines putting out similar reviews on the same car...features like this differentiate caranddriver and help it keep subscriptions and gain new ones. i enjoyed it!
I have a leaf and a 1995 dodge viper
the leaf is very fun to drive in many ways. is it the viper? no. but that's why i have both.
You know the thing about electric cars (or anything with a battery at that) is that constant feeling you get by knowing that when it's over, it's really over and you have always a few hours of waiting to do.
Cool video! Wouldn't have imagined just different tires could make a Leaf pull a corner like that!
The new Nissan Leaf 2013 is real close. 0-60 in 9 seconds. Base price 28k, but costs ~18.5k after tax incentives. Driving range improved to 84 miles at 100% up from 73 miles in the 2012 version. Nissan introducing L3 chargers at dealerships this year to get to 80% charge (66 miles) in 20 minutes.
Bought a 2013 N. Leaf, and I love it. Nuff said!
I'd take the Leaf!
Or the Porsche.
@@SaleenRaptor The Leaf
Now lower the Leaf and stiffen up the suspension, strip the interior and put in lightweight racing seats. It will be an absolute beast. Also, incidentally, I've been driving a Leaf (almost identical to this one, in stock form) for 3 years and love it.
Bought a LEAF last fall. Love it. It makes me smile every time I get into it - even with the stock tires. Great video!
I have a both a LEAF for my DD and a WRX for fun. The LEAF is a very enjoyable car! It's quick, comfortable and incredibly pragmatic. They are polar opposites in many ways and at the same time compliment each other. Great cars in their own right.
Congratulations. Few people really appreciate the significance of being first for a video that thousands of people will see.
I've driven dozens of cars over my life including several sporty models but driving the Leaf is defnitely the most fun. The smoothness of the acceleration due to no transmission (speed is controlled by how much electricity flows to the engine) and the fast and quiet acceleration from the 480W battery pack is loads of fun. The low center of gravity due to the battery pack located under the floor provides for great handling around corners. You can actually hear all the frequencies of music on the radio while driving instead of the annoying engine sounds. You can also park your car in the garage and keep the engine running without suffocating from any poisonous fumes! Heating the interior doesn't rely on the engine to get hot so in the cold winter days you get instant heat! It costs me around $1.00 in charging costs for every 100 miles of driving so in essence I'm getting 300 miles per gallon! Try that with your combustion car or hybrid. I'm getting really tired of people making the Leaf sound boring and slow. For those who doubt it take it for a test drive and make sure you don't drive in Eco mode. Floor the pedal from a stop sign and feel how you get thrown back in your seat. If you have the cash you can get yourself a Tesla and go from 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds.
I've got a Leaf and it's far from boring. It's way zippier than than any of its gasoline equivalents. I even outran a Porsche 911 at a red light.
+ballbeam I thought were were serious...until I read the part about you outrunning a Porsche 911 at a Red.
buddybestor I am.
buddybestor Apparently you don't know what 100% torque from standstill feels like.
Yes, the electric motor produces max torque from 0 rpm blah blah blah....but do you really expect me to believe you outran a Porsche? Don't be a DORK!
Well, the speed limit was 40km/h. If the limit was a lot more than that, yeah, obviously the Porsche would have won.
Every car has limited range. Some are just more limited than others. Also, the gasoline infrastructure has had 100 years to be built and is everywhere. But you still have to stop and fill up once in a while. The Nissan Leaf doesn't have to go anywhere to charge up because you can do that in your garage. Imagine always waking up to a full tank. The Leaf is not a sports car but this test proves that any electric car can become fun.
BTW you're smiling most of the time you are dissing the Leaf.
Car and Driver get that Leaf and throw in a Rinehart PM150 150KW AC Motor controller to replace the Nissan one that slowly limits motor power to 80KW and do a mashup again! keep the motor adequately cooled and you would have a 911 killer! Dont believe me? the Siemens Azure 47kW transit connect motors are being over-driven at 100-150kW by many enthusiasts, proving to be reliable and are being sold as "LS drop in replacements". I can only imagine what you can do with a 80kW rated leaf motor! We are only in the infancy of electric car modding.
even STOCK I get 0-60 in 9 seconds with the ecopia tires. the thing is a BEAST even with the limiters in place. at least compared to anything else I have ever driven. the car is SCARY fun to drive. Scary because I need to be careful when I get into any of my other cars which don't go or stop anywhere REMOTELY as fast as the leaf does.
Nicholas Bauer Why? I wont. Bea able to do 2 laps in a proper circuit track something even a kia accent can do.
Torque steer too. I warn folks who drive my 2012 not to floor it from a stop and steer sharply- the bloody thing scared the shite out of me the first time I did that. I’ve also driven Quattros all my life so PerHaps some of it is the newness / limitations of FWD.
A family car vs a German sports car? Why not compare the Telsa Roadster? Hmmmm?
I have an LEAF. Actually two of them. And a modified, 600 HP BMW M3 e90. And 72 Cougar, 51 Cadillac, BMW 328i F30 and 88 Fiat 126P. I love to drive every one of them, but around the city LEAF is my number one choice. Small, quick at the traffic lights without the drama and noise of the other cars, cheap to run, easy to "fuel", roomy inside - what's not to like about it? OK, ugly, cheap plastics everywhere and ergonomics from hell, but my 51 Caddy has painted steel for as dashboard and 72 Cougar has even worse ergonomics, so I can live with it.
Absolutely spot on!!!
I really want a leaf now cuz I'm from nyc and I am so fed of spending on gas. When.you mentioned quick off the traffic lights, I guess that is because of the instant torque right. That is probably the best part about the ride.
Good stuff Sam, enjoyed the video. Great question at the end too.
We have a Leaf, and have had fun with it in an Autocross. Just put Pirelli P7 summer tires on it which gets us the first step there. We also imported a Tein coil over suspension upgrade from Japan and it's lower and stiffer than a stock Leaf. The most fun is at the lights, the car makes no noise if you floor it and steps off quickly with no gear changes (8s or less to 60), so we always scoot away ahead of everyone else. It's no Porsche, but the Leaf is definitely fun to drive.
Good looking, not patronizing, fast, legitimately useful range, quick to fill up, good handling, tunable.
The fun with the Leaf starts at the fuel pump, when the insurance must get paid, or the car needs to go the garage for maintenance! When all these bills must be paid you will feel the fun towards the porsche!! Don't get me wrong ..I like Posches a lot but the running costs are hugh and not funny at all!!
pol1250 Just dont be poor. 500 bucks for a used cayman is not bad.
Thanks CarandDriver! I have S. Drives on my '04 Civic and love them and have been skeptical on how much better extreme performance summer tires could be, this was an excellent demonstration!
Also, if I bought an electric car, it would be nice if it had a selection of engine noises in the audio system that are synchronized with the heaviness of my right foot, just to give it that combustion engine sensation! :D
Im buying one today. A brand new 2015 one with the middle trim level.
When the oil on the planet disappears, or runs dry, the Porsche will be completely useless, but the Nissan Leaf will keep going on and on.
Tunghoi Lam When you need to go on a long trip, the Leaf will die but the Porsche will keep going on and on.
+joedogg9836 It won't if there's no oil... or half the world is under water because the glaciers are melting.
+joedogg9836 I've done a 1600 mile trip in mine, so like any car, it just needs juice.
You forgot about all the petroleum products it took to make that Nissan. Let me put it this way if we ran out of oil you wouldn't have that Leaf.
There's no necessary oil input in a LEAF. It takes energy to make it - aluminum production for example takes a lot of electricity - but it can totally come from the sun, or any other renewable.
Yes, petroleum currently is "everywhere". And no, it needn't be that way. Which is good, since otherwise a bright future would simply be impossible. That we're running out of oil eventually is after all a mathematical certainty (and we should stop burning the stuff long before we run out of it unless we're suicidal as a species).
I bought 2 of these this weekend. Love them.
This is the best $/G-force ratio so far.
I smoke a e36 m3 of the light until about his 3rd gear, when it's time to slow down (over speed limit)
I would like to see more of this where you try to make a leaf feel/respond like a Porsche within reason. For instance change out the rims, what can be done to the motor for more performance, what about lowering the car, etc, etc.
I have had my 2011 LEAF for over a year. It is lowered and modified with imported Tein coilovers, Enkei wheels and performance tires. The mods made a huge difference, like you said, and it is super fun to drive. It is smooth and sporty, but more than that when I spin the tires and leave the other cars at the stoplight like they're standing still you tend to attract gawkers. Which is OK because when they see that it's an EV, it changes their perceptions just a bit... Slowly but surely.
I believe Ballbeam because I have a Nissan Leaf and it's a monster against most all gasoline cars if not all of them, the electric torque is what kills the gas cars at the light.. Even if your not trying to race anyone.. It's just a big surprise for a lot of people that the Nissan Leaf is a speedy car but we leaf owners don't like to show off.. We're conservatives.. Smooth and classy, our leafs save us money time and makes our world a lot different then the one who that haven't experienced a smooth drive in a leaf. Just wait until I post a video of mine all in black rims and looking sporty, just to let you know that we made such a good choice of buying one of the best cars in the market! Just watch !
It is also the case that EV drivers tend to use more of the available torque - because you *can* go full power and still look like a civilized driver! Unlike with an ICE it doesn't make you wonder if you're "hurting" the car and it isn't a noisy and vibrating experience. It's just as smooth as any lower-power accelleration.
I almost always floor my LEAF at the lights - the exception being if I need to look after my range. Here in Norway people aren't often surprised anymore (EV adoption having come quite far) but it's still fun to pull away from folks who spent two to three times as much on their wheels (EVs are cheap in Norway compared to ICE).
Loved the prospect of real-life, really attainable, really believable customizing! Do more stuff like this!
Just bought the 2012 LEAF SL. Car is awesome! It responds well and takes off like a rocket ship. Why this guy is shitting all over the Leaf is beyond me. Car is great, fun and has a lot to offer.
it takes off like a rocket and handles great "compared" to the crap we normally drive.
Consider. I have well over 2 million miles under my belt and I have NEVER in my life driven a car as fast to go and as fast to stop as my leaf.
it PALES in comparison to "real" sports cars which is what guys like this are used to driving and comparing it too. I thought his review was pretty darned fair and good overall. Positive overall too.
Good job car and driver. I REALLY want to take the doors off my leaf now. it looks pretty damned neat like that I have to say!
I just bought a 2014 LEAF...it's charging for free in my newly designated work parking spot with a charge point. I will drive it home later today and plug it into my 10kwh solar system, again charging for free. First impressions: It's very fun to drive, smooth, quiet and can pass everything including a petrol station. When weighing up the economics, I was formerly spending $500 per month in petrol. Add to that $1800 in annual maintenance for a total monthly running cost of approximately $650/month (if I simply calculate the commute to work) Even if I financed the vehicle the monthly cost would drop to $400/month. It represents massive savings, while providing a very economical, comfortable and enthusiastic commuter that loves it when the traffic gets a bit 'stop and go' for that regenerative braking gift that keeps on giving. Can't wipe the smile off my face right now. Oh yeah...and saving the planet and all the greenie stuff.
You are correct if looking at a standpoint of vehicle production. But if you are already in the market for a new car, then there are obvious differences in which one will be better for the environment.
very educational, it was nice seeing the difference in tire behavior. It would of been nice to see the results of the leaf after more tuning but this was enough to prove the point.
My car "LADA Kalina 2" has ordinary tyres "Kama-217" ($30), and it can reach 1.0G too. It can reach speed 35 km/h moving along the circle R=10m.
The cars like Porsche-911 are not so maneuverable as fast.
"What would it take for YOU to buy an electric car?"
...and one month after this video was posted, the Tesla Model S started delivering to customers, and the rest was history.
This definitely helps when making tire selections for my autocross car.
I like the guy with the ray bans, he's much more fun to watch than some of the other guys on your channel, no offense to them.
I died listening to this.
I'm go glad they did a segment like this. When Nissan introduced the Leaf, little did they know it would become the best selling electric car in America 7 or 8 years later.
The Leaf is a perfect candidate for this segment because of the instant torque on takeoff.........as with all electric cars.
But why should the fun just stop at the instant torque factor?? This segment really help show the performance potential for all electric cars.
I have lowered my Nissan LEAF with TEIN coilovers from Japan, replaced the wheels and tires with larger, wider versions. I assure you it could do 1 g on the skidpad. LEAFs can also beat many "muscle cars" at the Autocross. You have heard that EVs have 100% torque at 0 RPM, but you won't know what that FEELS like until you drive one. I highly recommend it.
Years ago I thought owning a 240sx would put the joy back in driving for me. It turns out getting stuck in traffic (particularly in a car with a heavy clutch) is just not fun no matter what you are driving. However, in my Leaf, I get to drive in the car pool lane, pass gas stations, and save money, that's a different kind of fun! I'll pass that savings on to a Miata for weekends.
Electricity costs vary from state to state, but a typical full charge in a leaf ranges from about $2 to $4. If you triple the Leaf's range to about 300 miles so its more comparable to a gas powered vehicle that comes out to $6-$12 for a full charge. You can also gauge by comparing the leafs MPGe to a normal cars MPG. 115MPGe in the leaf is about triple that of a gas powered car so you only use 1/3 the energy. The cost to make up for gas depends on how much you drive, but it's all worth it.
A. LEAF stands for Leading Environmentaly Affordable Family car. B. its not a sports car. How about you take that Porsche and compare it to the Nissan GTR which is a sports car. and the LEAF costs about as much as a third of a porsche. The benefit of the LEAF A. no gas B. it has 100% torque all the time.
My dad actually owns a Tesla s and it is possibly the coolest car ever. He constantly tells me he could never go back to internal combustion engine cars. Part of that is the fact that there's no turbo lag or anything like that its just press and go .i feel like electric cars are really the future and the right one can get you going just like a normal ICE car.
You guys should do a leaf project car. Change the tires (like in this episode), change the shocks (is possible), brakes, roll cage, stripped out back seats and maybe an old Honda F1 spoiler. Then pit it against something like a Mustang or BMW.
Yes, a Leaf can be fast in the right hands and the right setup...... I took my wife's 2011 Leak to an Event held with the SCCA at Las Vegas Motor Speedway on a custom SCCA Road Ciruit. I now hold the track record for the Hybrid and Electric Class...2 Years the record has held....... :)
I am a EV Sales Manager for Nissan North America and this car has 100% torque at 0 RPM's compared to sports cars which have to be at 4900 RPM's to get a 90% torque. I am currently driving one as a demo and this car is by far the best car I've ever owned. Nissan has done a great job at designing and keeping everything in line to make this the World Car Of The Year(Once Again) REAL NUMBERS 95% of people drive less than 70 miles a day 70% of those people drive less than 40 a day. Do the Math!!!
The Leaf(2013) will have 103 mile range, and given that you have access to quick chargers, it charges from emty to full in 3-4 hours. Without, its around 7 hours.
It sounds like alot, but thats from 0 to 100% charge. And keep in mind you wake up to a full charge every day, virtually free, and in a few years there will be charging stations everywere. Which means you can top off your battery basically everywere you stop, at work, at the gym, at the diner.
Its mostly just range anxiety.
I have a lead and I was messing around with it and turned a 90 degree corner at "a" speed (too fast) I heard a lot of tyre squeal and understeer and I have a dashcam that records G's and I got 0.86G with stock tyres....
It's a tire comparison. Not a 911 vs leaf. The 911 simply benchmarks a sports cars skid pad figures. Having the 911 in the video just adds entertainment value
what the hell? if you want to pit an electric vs a porsche get a tesla, a leaf is the family car of electrics, I'm surprised it did that well with just a tire upgrade.
If you want to mod for a true "sports car" version of a leaf it needs: performance suspension, larger higher Kw performance motor with slightly different gearing, and new tires.
If you did that you'd probably outperform a porsche with it. would love to see an updated version of this with a truly modded "sport" version of a nissan leaf.
I guess the point was to show how much the car's characteristics could change "simply" by running racing-style tires on it (something you'd be incredibly stupid to do in real life, since thoes tires would be outright dangerous in conditions where you most need grippy tires - on very wet roads or in snow and ice conditions).
which makes sense, I just did not like the comparison of tan orange to a steak, the tire change to get sportier performance makes sense, the vehicle comparison does not.
Lol a tesla cant even do 3 laps at laguna seca or most tracks.
each to his/her own, but v8's and manuals and rear wheel drive... that's what makes me happy and want to drive
I read what you wrote, but all my mind heard was:
"I would never be caught dead buying a gas car. I've driven one, it's relaxing, but I couldn't own one as a daily driver. It's far too quiet and boring for me. I need to hear the snorting horse, the creaking saddle, and feel the bucking from the gallop of the horse! (etc . . . )"
Given enough time, the complaints of those resisting change all start to seem silly with hindsight.
did the 911 have stock tyres?
Just ordered a Leaf. Got sick of paying for gas. Leaf monthly payment is actually less what my gas bill used to be. So in effect I get a brand new car for what I used to pay for gas in my old car! Now I will have two EVs and only 1 gas car! YEAH!
I totally did a *facepalm* watching this... but in a good way lol ;)
I would be curious to know the 1/4 mile times with the different tires.
Next we compare a Minivan vs. Motorcycles: which one has better cup holders?
This video is the definition of superfluous
How many Leafs did you have on hand? I would imagine you guys drained its battery fairly quickly
Agreed, this is a tire comparison, not a car comparison. To answer your question, I have already bought an electric. A Leaf in fact. I wish it were a Tesla S, but I can't justify the price yet. The Tesla DOES show you what an electric can do. Perhaps you could compare a Tesla S to the Porsche. For now I am satisfied with using an all electric Leaf for my mundane commute to work. As Tecnam Twin comments, electric cars are refreshingly new and that really appeals to me too.....wait a few years.
I know this is un-related, but do you think its possible to put an eco-boost V6 in a V6 Mustang?
Nice comparison. I'm guessing the next in the series will be "Hammer vs. socket wrench". . . "Sure, this boring old hammer does it's job just fine, but it just doesn't turn bolts as well as this shiny sexy socket wrench. Let's see if we can get it turn bolts better by duct-taping these sockets to the hammer head. Because hammers don't deserve respect unless they can turn bolts."
We have a Nissan Leaf in Scotland, UK. apart from the lack of feel from the electric steering it's quite fun to drive and is a lot faster then my Renault Clio in a 1/4 mile drag or on a twisty mountain road.
Possibly the best thing about the Tesla is that it wears its batteries under the floorboard, flat. Not only does it free up a huge amount of space, but it puts the center of gravity of the car right about axle level, and gives the car a smooth bottom for major aerodynamic efficiency.
Other e-car makers would do well to emulate. Tesla licenses its battery tech...
Here is a suggestion for your next test drive video: F350 vs 911. please include the "picking up a refrigerator from Lowe's test" and report back...
Where in the engine is the speed stored and how do I tell if it's good or bad speed?
How difficult is it to build the self-charging electric car?
I agree with foxrace below, the Leaf needed suspension changes too. I am very interested in energy efficiency, and a nice quiet ride, so I would definitely buy an electric car. The Leaf is a good size, relatively low weight, and a very practical hatchback. However, it needs to be a sports car: more fun and engaging at any speed. Having numb steering, poor handling and fading brakes is not a requirement to be energy efficient. Perhaps a NISMO package with Brembos, Konis, and forged wheels.
Do this with a tesla or karma!
Please tell me you used jack stands and didn't leave the Leaf on the hydraulic jacks shown in the video.
The soundtrack for this car would have to be "It's Raining Men"
I think Sport Compact Magazine has already done something along these lines with a Yaris S Sedan. Changed the suspension and tires so it hit 1.2g or so. But I could care less about skidpad numbers. That's not what the best handlers are about. Changing the tires is all well and good, but is only a small part of the equation for a proper handling car. That doesn't mean the car should be one of the Integra's that bounces more then PamAn's chest just driving down the interstate, though.
He's a great editor
I'd drive it... As long as a can drive it straight to the Chevy dealership and trade it in for a ZL-1 :)
What would we get with the R1 tires on the 911? 458 performance?
tires are everything! I learned the hard way during an autocross
Both great cars for different purposes. Porsche fun = fast, Leaf fun = no oil changes and gas
lol that looked a little silly, but i think it was a fun experiment and i enjoyed watching it
Also, very low running costs, tires are about the only thing that wears out or needs any regular maintenance (brakes get almost no wear due to regenerative engine braking) and we have solar panels so are running on the sun.
I don't know about you, but the whine of a BIG electric motor stands my hair on end. Take the Tesla Model S Performance which has already beat the BMW M5 and the Mercedes E63 AMG in 0-100 mph sprints. It is shockingly fast and exciting!
Even the sound of a Nissan Leaf, Ford Focus EV, or Chevy Volt gets me excited, not because of the speed, or lack thereof, but because it represents a refreshingly new experience. Quick, quiet, smooth, serene, effortless, and efficiency are very desirable traits.
I really liked this video. It proves a lot.
How many times did this car require charging during the filming of this??
They should have tried tuning the suspension. The leafs battery pack gives it a very low center of gravity. I bet some performance shocks could have given it much better road handling.
There are days that I don't drive, but when I do, I average out about 400 miles a day; now, if I could do that in a fun, entertaining way in an electric car (the ampera is a good try although I don't get tingles when I drive it) I would get one. I want my car to be able to drive from Brussels to Oslo in one day, stop over, have a nap, drive back.
i think their point is that any car can be made as fun as a sports car.it all depends in the perception of the person driving it.
According to the outdated European test cycle, VW makes some cars that get 70+ on the HWY, however very hard to get in real life, and these have 1.2L 3 cylinder diesel engines.
Something not mentioned is how no matter how kany upgrades ev fail to do consecutive laps. Loses half the horsepower by the time 1 lap is finished in laguna seca for example. And is really heavy so it takes corners really slow.
I would buy an electric car if I had a real sports car for the weekend... And on top of that my wife would need to have a gas-powered family size car for family road trips, of which I am fond.
In principle alone I love the idea of an electric car - torquey, smooth, quiet, not reliant on OPEC...
I also enjoyed the part about tires in general. It's true - tires change the spirit of any car.
What this test proves is that lower speeds a LEAF is a fun car to drive and can hang with the best!! I can beat just about anything off a light in my LEAF. The low end torque is what makes the difference.
Wish I could buy a leaf but I need the infrastructure to catch up schools to include university and high school need to have the chargers. Then lots need to be created for electric cars in order for them to re charge. Then ill buy a leaf.
The energy isn't green, no doubt about that. However the lithium batteries have no toxic chemicals. Lithium is a natural mineral. It's mining is simple; remove several feet of surface from a former lake bed in brazil, that's it. The water polluted by hydrofracking is much worse. You're right, practicality versus cost is still not quite there. It's incredibly close, however. Sony has developed a lithium battery 10% the weight of lead acid. 10k cycles before landfill. Toxco recycles them.
Just test drove this week end Wow what a ride the Ac was great it was 106' out side and 70 in the car but at $38000 out of my game $17000 and I'm in
You got to go try one
Cool video! It ruins every track time comparison on the lightning lap contest. It proves that to realy check if one car is better than the other we have to do hot laps with the same tires on all cars
The Nissan Leaf is built in Tennessee bro. Do your research. As our grid gradually shifts to solar/nuclear/wind/geothermal/hydro and eventually fusion electric cars will be the obvious choice. As battery energy density continues to improve we'll get cheap electric cars with hundreds of miles of range & fast DC charging. We've got nearly 200k EVs on the road worldwide after 2-3 years not so bad.
I think the question is, "what would it take to get me to buy a gas-powered car?" I've driven gas, and I've driven electric (no hybrids, though), and I definitely prefer electric. They drive so much better. The LEAF is a nice car, but I prefer the Mitsubishi i instead. It's easier to see out of, drives much better, is smaller, about $5,000 cheaper, and arguably performs better than the LEAF.
answer: when EV's start out performing normal cars....perception will change. You just proved it with skidpad testing, improve the performance simularly at good value and they'll fly off the lots
I can't wait for the 2012 NL I just baught. It's not just the gas or the saving as such. I want to see it's affect on my driving, and I want to be a part of the progress I hope it will bring. I am hoping it will lead us to a new future of the individual automobile. The conventional motor is litle over 100 years old invention, and it's time might be up in few years to come. I want to be ahead of my surrounding and change to EVs this year!
the absolute definition of terminal understeer @ 1:25! Smoking the front tires on a rear drive car, impressive?