In which Amanda discusses her first Murakami and asks for your advice! Norwegian Wood: www.goodreads.com/book/show/1... / amandacenterintrovertx / amandacenterintrovertx
With the Midori thing, I get your complaint entirely, but I see that event as the collision of Toru and Midori's worst qualities. She is selfless at times, but if you remember on the day of the fire when Toru and Midori were hanging out at her house, she said to him that her dream is to have a relationship with a man who will do anything she wants and always consider himself in the wrong even if she is being ridiculous. He makes fun of her vision of love, yet as their relationship continues to form he more and more falls into that mold which she had described. His lack of care on that day broke that contract and thus Midori freaks out. There could also be something to the fact that her name means green; (which is mentioned in the book) it seems to me that one of her defining character traits is her envy and her stubborn resistance to relinquish her desires. Just some thoughts. P.S. I agree with you about the end. When Reiko and Toru slept together I started to loudly growl with anger and threw the book on the floor. I was ready to mostly forgive the gratuitous and pulpy sex scenes until that happened. Now I want to punish this book for its shallow and indulgent representation of sex and relationships between men and women.
Murukami treatment of women characters is something I find more and more troubling every book of his I read. My first one I read was Norwegian wood and I had the exact same problems with it, all of his protagonists are as exciting as wallpaper paste and while Murakami seems aware of this the amount of female characters that end up doing emotional labour for them is so excessive. He's someone that I do enjoy but I just completely turn off my brain for and let the words wash over me.
+Jems Bookshelf Yep, I think that's just how it's going to be with Murakami. That being said, I'm listening to the audiobook of The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles at the moment and am finding the women a little less ridiculous than in Norwegian Wood. Perhaps he has grown as an author? Perhaps the narrator has portrayed them better? Don't know, but I'm glad I'm enjoying it all the same!!
I loved how you described this book. I've read many novels by Murakami and I'm glad to say that there are some powerful female characters in other works by him. It's true what you said about the women in this one, though I disagree about Midori. I feel like she just pretends to be ''selfish'' because she wants to help Toru (in some way), like she knows his relationship with Naoko is unhealthy. I don't know, when I read this one, I really liked Midori as a character. I recommend reading After Dark, 1Q84 and Dance, Dance, Dance. Those are my favourite works by Murakami and they have female characters that I really enjoyed reading.
+Vivi (Reading Wanderlust) Thanks very much for the recommendations! Only 1Q84 was on my radar, but now I'll add the other two in, as well. If I ever reread Norwegian Wood, I'll have to take a look at Midori from your perspective. I could have missed something, definitely, as there was a lot of subtle things happening in this novel. Thanks for watching!!
I think you'd really enjoy A Pale View of Hills by Kazuo Ishiguro. His book, The Buried Giant, was my favourite read of last year, though it's very different from the rest of his work.
I really need to read some Murakami, and you made this sound really good! I have to say, I love the fez haha-- I never understand the whole spoilers issue personally, but it's a very stylish solution to accomadate people who are sensitive them! I have read a lot of books by writers who are known for being bad at writing female characters, and it hasn't bothered me all that much in the past, though it is something to be aware of, and it was definitely interesting to hear your thoughts about this issue in relation to Norwegian Wood. Really enjoyed this review/discussion, and I'm excited to see the spoiler fez in action in future videos!
+A Hermit's Progress The spoiler fez is definitely going to be seen again. I need to talk about The Secret History, and you can't really do that without dropping some major spoilers in. I really love Murakami's writing style and the overall tones of his books, even though I have problems with his characters. You'll read some Murakami one day, I'm sure!!
Okay, I really need to read this book now! I've read a few Murakami books, but still haven't managed this one yet. I enjoyed your discussion about the depiction of women. The manic pixie dream girl is definitely something that crops up quite a bit in Murakami's books. I kinda want to read it more, though, to see what I make of the female characters. Thanks for another great video, Amanda, I always love your reviews xx
+Claire Quigley (ClaireQuip Reads) Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked the video. Which Murakami books have you read so far? Norwegian Wood is the only one I've completed, though I'm close-ish to finishing The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles audiobook. Murakami seems like the sort of author I characteristically avoid, but for some reason he seems to have a pull on me!
(This comment wears a spoiler hat) I agree with a lot of what you said. I also loved Norwegian Wood, and found it beautiful and engaging as a book - but some of the presentation of the female characters did bother me. Especially of Reiko and what happened with her and Toru at the end. It just felt like Muakami went, oh well she's a woman, they'd better have sex... In terms of Japanese literature recommendations, I recommend Banana Yoshimoto forever, but I think you already know that :P I also very much enjoyed Yasushi Inoue's The Hunting Gun.
+Books and Things Is there a specific book to start with Yoshimoto? She's definitely on my radar because of you!! The Hunting Gun looks quite interesting, as well, so thank you for that recommendation! (And I totally agree with you in regards to Reiko and Toru. Oh, Murakami.....)
I love how you said this is book is a journey - such a perfect way to describe it. Also, love the hat device! I do completely agree with the otherworldliness/no depth - and when I read it I wasn't sure if this was just because we were viewing her through HIS eyes and he never really understood her or what was going on, so that stopped us as readers from understanding. Great review!
+The Garden of Readin' Toru's p.o.v. definitely complicates matters. Does Murakami have a hard time writing female characters or does his male characters have hard times understanding female characters??? Who knows? Thanks for watching!!
+acacia ives HUZZAH! I just watched one of your hauls with Norwegian Wood in it and thought of leading you to this video, but I should have known better; of course, you'd find it! I hope you enjoy it when you finish it!!
i have to say, the book is extraordinarily well-written and has quite a few moving moments, BUT-after reading several of HM's surreal, magical realism masterpieces, which left me transformed and were absolutely revelatory, i was fairly disappointed. it was as if kurt vonnegut had been hired to write a high-end, atypically sad and morbid hallmark movie screenplay.
Norwegian Wood was my first Murakami read as well and I, too, gave it a 4/5. I feel that in order to understand the direction of this novel, you really need an understanding of Toru. I felt he was a character that possessed a great deal of flaws and how he was torn between Naoko and Midori is crucial in understanding his efforts between each of them and how each of them responded to him. Reiko was simply a representative of the option for the thoughtless (as in one that was not worrying about whether or not a decision was going to help or hurt them). I wish I could recommend some more Japanese fiction, but am looking to dabble in it myself. Are you looking at participating in Japanese June? Thank you for sharing your thoughts! :) -Josh
+Literary Gladiators I hadn't thought of participating in Japanese June before, but I'll certainly consider it now! I definitely struggled to understand Toru, but fortunately that didn't hamper my overall enjoyment, right? Thanks for watching!!
+Amanda Center (IntrovertX) It will be an interesting experience! I am not sure if I will be able to complete every challenge, but I am sure I will have fun either way! It sounds like this was a light, but enjoyable read, which is what many of us got out of the experience!
Complete agree with your thoughts on Reiko and Toru relationship at the end... Wtf ? The whole time he presents unusual amount of self control and self righteousness? And at the end giving that up..
Hey I really liked your review. You explained almost everything I felt after reading the book. I felt exactly the same way about the way he wrote about the female characters. But yes, some sections of his writing was gold. To add a couple of more things, I never completely understood why Kizuki died and was hoping to get to know about it from either Toru or Naoko but never found a satisfactory answer. I was also not hoping being halfway through the book to realise that Naoko's sister too had committed suicide. How is it that in a year's time that Naoko and Toru had spent, this never came up? Or even before? That also seemed a bit off. And lastly, I did not like his representation of the one lesbian character in the book, not to say that lesbians, like any other human being, cannot be manipulative liars but it just conveniently plays on that stereotype! Why can't there be a positive representation of them? I know maybe I'm expecting too much for the time this was written but these are also some of the thoughts I had.
I like books based around mental health..but sadly I think these character names would seriously confuse me hahaha brilliant spoiler hat! Great idea though.
+Boho Bookworm It's much easier when you're reading weird names. The first couple of times you come across their name, it's slow, but after a while your brain just sees N-------- or M--------- and you know who's being written about. This is a wonderful book about mental illness, so I encourage you to try it sometime!!
Jamie Dianne The Hellboy comics are some of my favourite. It takes a while to get into the simple illustrations and laconic storytelling, but there's so much myth and legend thrown in. I also really liked the movies - Hellboy is hysterical in them; and in the second one the baddie is super hot. I watched the movies first, but that's because I wasn't into comics at that point. I think if you're at all interested, you should check out one or the other!!
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With the Midori thing, I get your complaint entirely, but I see that event as the collision of Toru and Midori's worst qualities. She is selfless at times, but if you remember on the day of the fire when Toru and Midori were hanging out at her house, she said to him that her dream is to have a relationship with a man who will do anything she wants and always consider himself in the wrong even if she is being ridiculous. He makes fun of her vision of love, yet as their relationship continues to form he more and more falls into that mold which she had described. His lack of care on that day broke that contract and thus Midori freaks out. There could also be something to the fact that her name means green; (which is mentioned in the book) it seems to me that one of her defining character traits is her envy and her stubborn resistance to relinquish her desires. Just some thoughts.
P.S. I agree with you about the end. When Reiko and Toru slept together I started to loudly growl with anger and threw the book on the floor. I was ready to mostly forgive the gratuitous and pulpy sex scenes until that happened. Now I want to punish this book for its shallow and indulgent representation of sex and relationships between men and women.
Murukami treatment of women characters is something I find more and more troubling every book of his I read. My first one I read was Norwegian wood and I had the exact same problems with it, all of his protagonists are as exciting as wallpaper paste and while Murakami seems aware of this the amount of female characters that end up doing emotional labour for them is so excessive.
He's someone that I do enjoy but I just completely turn off my brain for and let the words wash over me.
+Jems Bookshelf Yep, I think that's just how it's going to be with Murakami. That being said, I'm listening to the audiobook of The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles at the moment and am finding the women a little less ridiculous than in Norwegian Wood. Perhaps he has grown as an author? Perhaps the narrator has portrayed them better? Don't know, but I'm glad I'm enjoying it all the same!!
Love,depression, anxiety, suicide, sex...great book to read. This book reminds me of what real life is about.
I love Toru because of his mannerisms and his kindness. Compared to other murakami protagonists he is already really active lol
I loved how you described this book. I've read many novels by Murakami and I'm glad to say that there are some powerful female characters in other works by him. It's true what you said about the women in this one, though I disagree about Midori. I feel like she just pretends to be ''selfish'' because she wants to help Toru (in some way), like she knows his relationship with Naoko is unhealthy. I don't know, when I read this one, I really liked Midori as a character. I recommend reading After Dark, 1Q84 and Dance, Dance, Dance. Those are my favourite works by Murakami and they have female characters that I really enjoyed reading.
+Vivi (Reading Wanderlust) Thanks very much for the recommendations! Only 1Q84 was on my radar, but now I'll add the other two in, as well. If I ever reread Norwegian Wood, I'll have to take a look at Midori from your perspective. I could have missed something, definitely, as there was a lot of subtle things happening in this novel. Thanks for watching!!
Your welcome! I really like your channel, and I look forward to hearing your opinions on those books!
I think you'd really enjoy A Pale View of Hills by Kazuo Ishiguro. His book, The Buried Giant, was my favourite read of last year, though it's very different from the rest of his work.
+Fee de Carabas I'll definitely check APVOH out! I want to read Ishiguro, but I just haven't gotten to him yet. Thanks for watching!!
I really need to read some Murakami, and you made this sound really good! I have to say, I love the fez haha-- I never understand the whole spoilers issue personally, but it's a very stylish solution to accomadate people who are sensitive them! I have read a lot of books by writers who are known for being bad at writing female characters, and it hasn't bothered me all that much in the past, though it is something to be aware of, and it was definitely interesting to hear your thoughts about this issue in relation to Norwegian Wood. Really enjoyed this review/discussion, and I'm excited to see the spoiler fez in action in future videos!
+A Hermit's Progress The spoiler fez is definitely going to be seen again. I need to talk about The Secret History, and you can't really do that without dropping some major spoilers in. I really love Murakami's writing style and the overall tones of his books, even though I have problems with his characters. You'll read some Murakami one day, I'm sure!!
Okay, I really need to read this book now! I've read a few Murakami books, but still haven't managed this one yet. I enjoyed your discussion about the depiction of women. The manic pixie dream girl is definitely something that crops up quite a bit in Murakami's books. I kinda want to read it more, though, to see what I make of the female characters. Thanks for another great video, Amanda, I always love your reviews xx
+Claire Quigley (ClaireQuip Reads) Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked the video. Which Murakami books have you read so far? Norwegian Wood is the only one I've completed, though I'm close-ish to finishing The Wind-Up Bird Chronicles audiobook. Murakami seems like the sort of author I characteristically avoid, but for some reason he seems to have a pull on me!
(This comment wears a spoiler hat)
I agree with a lot of what you said. I also loved Norwegian Wood, and found it beautiful and engaging as a book - but some of the presentation of the female characters did bother me. Especially of Reiko and what happened with her and Toru at the end. It just felt like Muakami went, oh well she's a woman, they'd better have sex...
In terms of Japanese literature recommendations, I recommend Banana Yoshimoto forever, but I think you already know that :P I also very much enjoyed Yasushi Inoue's The Hunting Gun.
+Books and Things Is there a specific book to start with Yoshimoto? She's definitely on my radar because of you!! The Hunting Gun looks quite interesting, as well, so thank you for that recommendation! (And I totally agree with you in regards to Reiko and Toru. Oh, Murakami.....)
Hmm my favourite is Kitchen, which is also where I started, so I'd probably recommend there, or maybe The Lake or Goodbye Tsugumi :)
Books and Things Thanks ever so!!
I love how you said this is book is a journey - such a perfect way to describe it. Also, love the hat device!
I do completely agree with the otherworldliness/no depth - and when I read it I wasn't sure if this was just because we were viewing her through HIS eyes and he never really understood her or what was going on, so that stopped us as readers from understanding.
Great review!
+The Garden of Readin' Toru's p.o.v. definitely complicates matters. Does Murakami have a hard time writing female characters or does his male characters have hard times understanding female characters??? Who knows? Thanks for watching!!
Probably a little bit of both! :)
Ok so I'll be picking this up again! Now I'm happy
+acacia ives HUZZAH! I just watched one of your hauls with Norwegian Wood in it and thought of leading you to this video, but I should have known better; of course, you'd find it! I hope you enjoy it when you finish it!!
I feel like I have to explain Midoko , this was her differentiation of love and she shared with him " to control " and that she did
I don't quite understand what you mean; would you mind telling me more of your thoughts?
i have to say, the book is extraordinarily well-written and has quite a few moving moments, BUT-after reading several of HM's surreal, magical realism masterpieces, which left me transformed and were absolutely revelatory, i was fairly disappointed. it was as if kurt vonnegut had been hired to write a high-end, atypically sad and morbid hallmark movie screenplay.
Norwegian Wood was my first Murakami read as well and I, too, gave it a 4/5. I feel that in order to understand the direction of this novel, you really need an understanding of Toru. I felt he was a character that possessed a great deal of flaws and how he was torn between Naoko and Midori is crucial in understanding his efforts between each of them and how each of them responded to him. Reiko was simply a representative of the option for the thoughtless (as in one that was not worrying about whether or not a decision was going to help or hurt them). I wish I could recommend some more Japanese fiction, but am looking to dabble in it myself. Are you looking at participating in Japanese June? Thank you for sharing your thoughts! :) -Josh
+Literary Gladiators I hadn't thought of participating in Japanese June before, but I'll certainly consider it now! I definitely struggled to understand Toru, but fortunately that didn't hamper my overall enjoyment, right? Thanks for watching!!
+Amanda Center (IntrovertX) It will be an interesting experience! I am not sure if I will be able to complete every challenge, but I am sure I will have fun either way! It sounds like this was a light, but enjoyable read, which is what many of us got out of the experience!
The spoilers fez is such a great idea! :)
+Jamie Dianne Thanks very much! I needed to make some use out of that Hellboy fez I "had to have!!"
Complete agree with your thoughts on Reiko and Toru relationship at the end... Wtf ? The whole time he presents unusual amount of self control and self righteousness? And at the end giving that up..
Hey I really liked your review. You explained almost everything I felt after reading the book. I felt exactly the same way about the way he wrote about the female characters. But yes, some sections of his writing was gold.
To add a couple of more things, I never completely understood why Kizuki died and was hoping to get to know about it from either Toru or Naoko but never found a satisfactory answer. I was also not hoping being halfway through the book to realise that Naoko's sister too had committed suicide. How is it that in a year's time that Naoko and Toru had spent, this never came up? Or even before? That also seemed a bit off. And lastly, I did not like his representation of the one lesbian character in the book, not to say that lesbians, like any other human being, cannot be manipulative liars but it just conveniently plays on that stereotype! Why can't there be a positive representation of them? I know maybe I'm expecting too much for the time this was written but these are also some of the thoughts I had.
Very valid thoughts!
I like books based around mental health..but sadly I think these character names would seriously confuse me hahaha brilliant spoiler hat! Great idea though.
+Boho Bookworm It's much easier when you're reading weird names. The first couple of times you come across their name, it's slow, but after a while your brain just sees N-------- or M--------- and you know who's being written about. This is a wonderful book about mental illness, so I encourage you to try it sometime!!
So...where's the connection between Norway and this Japanese story? (Yes, I'm that shallow.) :) ("Heckadoodles")
+Jay Center Norwegian Wood is a Beatles song that's important to the story :)
+Amanda Center (IntrovertX) Oh...THAT "Norwegian Wood." :)
Beatles and rockabilly was huge in Japan, the way I see it Japan is a sponge of western things and converts to their taste.
Lol, I thought that was Hellboy! :D
+Jamie Dianne Well, spotted! That's totally him. Have you read the comic or seen the movies?
Neither one. Are they good?
Jamie Dianne The Hellboy comics are some of my favourite. It takes a while to get into the simple illustrations and laconic storytelling, but there's so much myth and legend thrown in. I also really liked the movies - Hellboy is hysterical in them; and in the second one the baddie is super hot. I watched the movies first, but that's because I wasn't into comics at that point. I think if you're at all interested, you should check out one or the other!!
thankyou...but you hold that book like that for 14 minutes....what!!!!!!
I find that your review of the characters comes across as judgemental, and you do it reasserting sexual taboos in a very twisted manner.