As far as I know (from reading BannedLagiacrus tweets), the Great Desert map is confirmed to have been an ocean long ago that since dried up, and it's implied that a lot of the deserts of monster hunter likely have this origin, which creates the connection of many desert species being uncannily similar to aquatic species (piscine wyverns, nibelsnarf, the great mountain dragons resembling whales, hermitaurs, etc.). So I could see plesioth being relict populations from this time maybe, if they don't also walk. Could be both I guess.
That's pretty interesting to think about re: some piscine wyverns and nibelsnarf especially, and may well make them some of the most ancient lineages of extant monsters in the game. (If we consider the blos wyverns and some other desert monsters don't really have an aquatic lineage and yet have evolved to desert life, that could be inferred said ocean drying happened at least tens of millions of years ago.) Plesioth specifically though I think is more like the desert crocodiles as if they'd been stranded from other populations for millions of years over a few thousand I'd expect to see at least some aspects of speciation.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Drying of oceans in monster hunter might actually not have taken that long. After all we have monsters like Dire Moralis who are literally said to exert so much heat that they literally boil everything around them and are known to dry up massive amounts of water just by existing. You may be wondering how there's even any water left in the monster hunter world then. Well Moralis is a black elder dragon which are EXTREMELY rare monsters. They're also extremely long lived and have never been recorded breeding but even then it's not really something that is implied they do often in general. As well as the fact the world monster hunter takes place in is actually a planet that is A LOT larger then our own earth. It's how there exist creatures like Dalamadur which are massive to say say least with sizes that even in a young individuals like the one we fight in game are actually recorded being even larger then the new modern Godzilla. Are still a species that don't out compete literally all life on the planet. Because that planet is just that massive. The reason they can reach these ridiculous sizes as well is due to the kind of sun the monster hunter planet rotates around a blue star... Which if you know anything about space you know that blue stars can get fucking massive. But they would make a perfect star for a planet predominantly ruled by massive reptiles and lizards.
@@pigsmacker213 that's, actualy awsome to know, just wish it was a bit more explisently stated in game, I'd love a mosnter hunter game that focuses more one the world and the many secrets and hidden lore. seeing that I've played these games since MH4 I feel like I've missed most of this stuff. or it's just so hidden I've not found it.
If plesioth returns, I kind of want them to run with the meme by making a water-manipulating variant that moves water through its hip checks and tail swipes. It would also make it easier to predict.
It would be quite cool if water combat ever returned with a good physics engine that let the monsters manipulate currents to knock the little hunters off kilter.
@@Krescentwolf It was originally dubbed Subspace Tackle in Japan. It was replaced by Hyperspace because it's more well known among westerners. The spirit is the same (Plesioth delivering a tail slap beyond physical dimension) but the name no longer reference the Japanese meme.
Abyssal Lagiacrus is supposed to be a really rare mutation (or natural life stage) where the Lagiacrus grew to big for land and so lives primarily in the depths. When you think about it there's many "subspecies" in MH that should really be changed to variants. Silverwind Nargacuga and Elderfrost Gammoth are Deviants but they too are just natural life stages for their normal versions. Although other than different specific naming Deviants are just "uber" variants. About Nakarkos. Ceadeus and Nakarkos exist in a sperm whale and giant squid like relationship with Nakarkos predating on Ceadeus calves and adult Ceadeus predating on Nakarkos. With Gobul it should be noted that the ones we fight in game are apparently not adults. It's hinted that the adults might look completely different and might be only in the sea.
Yeah, drafting various thoughts for various monsters a lot of subspecies are better explained as being variants (often just old males like my suggestion for abyssal lagi).
I have heard of fan theories that the Gobul could be the larval form of Namielle, that will hunt and eat things throughout its life until eventually maturing into the elder dragon as they travel to the new world as part of a life cycle.
There's no material suggesting that Ceadeus preys on Nakarkos; this is a widespread piece of fanon misinformation. There is an excerpt in a book with a concept sketch of a Nakarkos preying on a "juvenile Ceadeus", with the term "juvenile" as used most likely as reference to its horns being asymmetrical, and the idea that Goldbeard is a mature Ceadeus. The relative sizes of the Nakarkos and the Ceadeus shown in the picture do not suggest it was an undersized Ceadeus at all; the Narkarkos we see in Generations is *LARGER* than the Ceadeus and Goldbeards we see in Tri, and its lair is littered with skeletons far larger than Ceadeus as well. If anything, the Nakarkos in the image was undersized, or the Ceadeus juvenile was oversized. The entirety of the basis for the idea of "adult" Ceadeus preying on Nakarkos is that the Ceadeus was said to be a juvenile, and then someone went "well maybe it reverses with adults"-needless to say, this does not constitute evidence of anything, and I think it's very safe to say does not hold up under any kind of serious analysis. Nakarkos in Generations and GU is given a threat rating and quest rewards on par with Alatreon and only inferior to Fatalis, as well as arguably the single greatest showcase of destructive power of any monster in any mainline game, it is not something that is subject to predation by Ceadeus, or anything else. Nakarkos is also very definitely large enough to prey on Abyssal Lagiacrus.
Ah the hipcheck, able to hit you not only from across the room but get behind a lances guard even when facing the right way 50% of the time! Also great video as usual
This has been exactly the kind of nerdy biology fantasy stuff I love, and Monster Hunter is one of my favorite series. I liked this video, subscribed, and now I am totally going to binge your other content! Great video, I really enjoy it, and it fits my jam perfectly so to say.
Plesioth is something I think would be visually amazing in modern monster hunter games, it just needs a lot of refinement in terms of moves and hitboxes. But overall he is just fine to me, but I do wish I could chop that tail of, it’s worse than the hipchecks.
personally if they ever bring back stuff like Plesioth and Lagiacrus I'd want to to be accompanied by the glorious return of underwater combat. 3 Ultimate was my first Monster Hunter game and personally I prefered underwater combat to land battles, in fact I found Lagiacrus, Royal Ludroth, and Plesioth to be easier underwater than on land (Gobul was an utter pain no matter where it was). land only Plesioth feels like a mess (and that's not even considering the broken hitboxes) and land only Lagiacrus always felt boring and underwhelming to me. the only issue I had with underwater combat was how murky the flooded forest water was.
seeing as Rise managed to make both Basarios and Kushala Daora fun fights now i'd love to see what they'd do with Plesioth, his colours would look amazing in the flooded forest and I think he'd be a lot more interesting and unique than Jyratodus is.
I LOVE Monster Hunter Biology, and seeing an entire series dedicated to it makes me drool! One theory I’ve becomes subscribed to is how bioenergy literally fuels a natural arms race, with bigger and badder predators with crazy abilities(i.e. Glavenus and Lagiacrus) able to outcompete smaller and less ridiculous monsters. This bioenergy war of sorts is the reason that sometimes an ecological glutton like Deviljho and Narkaros are able to evolve at all. It also explains how monsters gain these crazy abilities: bioenergy allows their organs to go crazy with specialization.
Thank you! And plenty more to come! It's an interesting theory, the thing I keep thinking about bioenergy is that it's some weird energy rich mineral with a very low melting point that forms the bulk of various mineral veins in the MH world allowing for such productive ecosystems. The arms race idea I feel is a little flawed in that a lot of more restrained monsters with little in the way of extra abilities like Tigrex and Diablos are able to match more zany ones like Glav and Brachy even without their extreme variants.
@@unnaturalhistorychannelI believe a component that's always missed in arms race discussions is how animals like phorusrhacos and the paraceratherium were outcompeted by smaller, less armored, but ultimately more adaptable animals. That being us (for the most part and this doesn't apply to every species of megafauna in the last 4000 to 50000 years, give or take). Tigrex very well might just be better adapted to greatly varying climates and terrains that the super specialized wyverns aren't compatible with without a few more million years, but tigrex is ready right now and its not going anywhere. Its almost like the trope that crocs and sharks are so well suited for life that they've barely changed in millions of years. While not completely true, the crocodillian body plan was popular with unrelated genera of animals and many species of fish are close to being sharks based off looks but are actually unrelated, because that body plan just works. Overall, there's plenty of indication that other wyverns such as diablos and even the raths are so well suited for life in either the new or old world that they really haven't changed much about themselves except for maybe behavior. Whereas the brute wyverns like anjanath and glavenus are so specialized that you can't just plop them into any ecosystem and expect them to survive. Of course, capcom has chosen to stick just about every monster everywhere so this isn't a completely waterproof argument but hopefully I got my point across.
You are actually quite correct in surmising that ivory and abysal are part of the same species and not actual subspecies, for ivory instead of being Leucistic apparently the reason why they are white is because due to the quartz minerals being found in its shell..... which suggest that lagi supplements it's diet by eating minerals from time to time, but the reason behind this is still unknown, tho my personal theory on this matter is that they start eating those minerals in order to prepare them for their inevitable change into abysal lagi were reinforcing their shells with strong minerals will eventualy help them cope with the massive underwater pressure of deep sea diving, as for abysal we know that there just really old members of their species that grew to enormous sizes so they are now permanently stuck in the ocean, but that begs the question on how abysal members of the species reproduce? Do they switch to giving birth to live young or do they still momentarily go back on land to lay eggs like sea turtles or are they unable to once they reach that age?
I'd probably suggests they still come back onto land, but just don't spend much time there after laying eggs. It's hard to think of an animal that can completely switch its reproductive organs. Abyssal Lagi still need to breathe air and so may come to certain near-shore environments like reefs or lagoons to rest and reproduce without leaving the support of the water.
That implies these animals are still breeding members of the species. They move to the deep oceans as a response to easier food sources being found there and they are estimated to be potentially triple digits in age that both normal and ivory lagiacrus can be. That mixed with their insane rarity could easily be said to mean they do not breed, or perhaps only males do.
@@dilophoraptordouble If Lagiacrus are sexually dimorphic like crocs too, it would also mean it's much more likely for a bull to reach abyssal size and age and thus be the only ones that may still breed.
It's interesting that you bring up the Gobul being in the bottoms of freshwater sources. If memory serves me right, the information of that monster is limited due to dissections of captured specimens showing that these large fish monsters are actually prebubecent. With no functional sexual organs, it's speculated that the freshwaters are used like what you had said for sharks. Even the hunters guild are unsure what a full grown adult Gobul would look like, but they assume that they live in the deep oceans Abyssal Legiacrus dives down too
Yeah that's the leading theory from one of the artbooks. Much is still unknown about Gobul, there's the popular fan theory that adults are mega-massive ultra deathking eaters of elders but this is totally unsupported.
There's actually one species of squid which managed to pull off bioluminescent camouflage. They basically use it to look like moonlight reflecting off the ocean's surface. Not saying that's what abyssal Lagi does, but just thought it was an interesting fact to share.
I’m excited about some of the bird wyverns ecology in the next video! I think I heard Yian Kut-Ku, Qurupeco, and Kula-Ya-Ku. But I’m not 100% sure. Hopefully Yian Garuga gets mentioned because it’s closely related to Yian Kut-Ku.
To give a slight spoiler it was Kula, Gypceros and Qurupeco (good catch with qurupeco especially!). Kut Ku and Garuga will get their own video later on though!
"It's really adorable to imagine a mother lagiacrus covered in babies, like a modern crocodilian." _Yes._ I will suffer underwater combat to have this in my life.
I found this channel after doing a random steve ecology search and am so happy that I have. Love these videos and am about binge every monster hunter one you have. And having only ever had to fight plesioth once in generations years ago as my first monhun game(though I'm playing through generations ultimate on my switch now and I know he's coming up) I can say there are in fact 12 plesioth fans as I found his fight very challenging but still love the monster.
Plesioth definately got improved with the adittion of underwater combat, and both on land and on water it is a lot of fun to take it down as a gunner, and I'm a blademaster main. Lagiacrus is just too fascinating and awesome to be left out for too long, I absolutely love how it figths and behaves underwater, Ivory's attacks on land are fenominal (It's a shame that in Generations Ultimate Lagiacrus didn't stick much closer to that to Ivory, there are some great new moves but other weird looking and somewhat questionable decisions made to it, but that could just be me). Hopefully underwater combat returns in an inovative new way, I loed the old version but I can understand why most people hated it.
6:24 I thought that's exactly what Abyssal Lagi was, especially since Monster Hunter isn't exactly consistent with their terminology (variants, subspecies, etc)
@@unnaturalhistorychannel i just explain it in my head as subspecies being a far more casual, almost slang term among hunters rather than a proper phylogenetic or even physiologic classification system
Fantastic video as always. Kinda made me re think Lagiacrus in a way tho, I always saw him as this great sea serpent that rulls over all but a few in the oceans. I kinda forgot just how competitive the waters in Monster Hunter can be with a large chunk of the inhabitants being able to reach very large sizes and are generally powerful. Like Plesioth for example, I forgot just how massive he is, and who knows a well aimed hyper pressurised water beam from him might have a chance to crack Lagiacrus softer armour. Speaking of Lagi I wander if they are able to go for long periods of time without food while making a large open water crossing,similar to Saltwater Crocodiles travelling around the Indian Ocean and the seas of south east China,or even that one Nile crocodile that swam from Africa to Florida. I also wander if Ivory been more land based likes to dabble in predation of land animals like Slugtoth,Aptonoth and bird wyverns.
Thank you! And yeah, there's a lot we don't really know about the oceans of MH too as to what else may be down there. I'd say Lagi can probably make such crossings, and if not a possible land bridge in the past it could be how individuals make it to the new world occasionally too. Food may also draw them out, like the photos of the saltwater crocs that swam great distances out to sea to feed on a whale carcass. And yeah I'd say that's quite likely for ivory too. Like real crocs they probably eat whatever comes thy way!
Also The ivory Lagiacrus more than likely would have more developed muscular limbs to a degree due to spending more time on land, but not really noticeable in comparison to the Common Lagiacrus species. Also there are crocodilians that have white colors with reduced pigmentation, hypomelanism which don’t suffering from health problems seen in leucistic and albino forms. There are some impressive saltwater crocodiles in Australia that are hypomelanistic, some having more striking whites and still retains the black marking as a typical specimen of the species. And similarly to the ivory lagiacrus, which retains the same areas in which pigmentation of colors are present in the common standard blue colored more aquatic species.
I admit I wasn't aware saltwater crocodiles underwent hypomelanism, and always thought they were just paler individuals. Interesting to learn though, and as you say a better analogue than purely albino alligators.
Indeed, I was unaware as well, I originally thought these saltwater crocs in Australia were leucistic, but as you mentioned leucisric crocodilians suffer from health problems which I was unaware of. I thought it was only for the albino forms so that was pretty cool to learn. I had to look up articles on these really vibrant white saltwater crocs to see what they actually had going on with there skin.
Been watching this series since the start but only sharing my thoughts now. I absolutely love what you've been doing. The presentation is simple but effective and while there is a lot of information, it's presented well and there's clearly a lot of research going behind this. I agree with almost every bit of speculation you've put forth and it further cements the creatures of Monster Hunter as being natural animals with realistic behavior akin to animals of our world. This one especially does a great job at comparing these two classic marine monsters. One thing I recalled from my time playing 3U was that Plesioth appeared to have been downsized in that game, but kept a larger average size in earlier games and GenU (I would need to see the size listings in the different games to confirm this), and part of me always thought this reflected the presence of Lagiacrus having an impact on the maximum size Plesioth could potentially reach, either due to competition or possibly predation. While GenU contradicts this somewhat, GenU was a bit more loose with canon and I suspect they kept the larger size more as a reference to older games than anything else. Really looking forward to the next episode, keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for your very kind words! I've always been a bit skeptical of some of the size listings too as they never seemed to match up both with monster appearances in game + across games too. But interspecific competition can definitely limit max size, even if just through better exploitation of resources. I also like the name - Peter Jackson's Skull Island will definitely be visited in the future!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel You're quite welcome, yeah the size listings can be a bit wonky, but then again even animals in real life don't often have strict size limitations, it's always a range, which is fun to see in the series. Was definitely a product of the time, looking forward to seeing you talk on that version of Skull Island as well!
As someone who both was very enthusiastic about Marine Biology when I was younger, and has recently really gotten into the Monster Hunter series, I've gotta say I'm glad I stumbled across your gem of a channel through this video! Perhaps you could take a look at a somewhat similar pairing in Agnaktor (one of my favorites) and Lavasioth? I'm certainly curious as to whether or not there's plausible explanations for their habit of lava-wading; I've read that Agnaktor secretes an inflammable liquid between it's scales, but I'm not so sure how effective that may be
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with in that regard, and a dive into the two in general- in the meantime, I'll be watching the rest of your content :D
just wanna say, as of late your videos are what let me actually sleep. they're interesting and keep my adhd engaged, and your voice is steady and consistent which helps me focus on 1 consistent sound until I'm out. plus, i very much enjoy the content, so this is a triple win. thank you for making these monster hunter documentary videos, it's truly some of the best content I've listened to in awhile.
Giant lobster are what plesioth like to snack on. That would be a good reason for plesi to dive. Plus lobster shells are usually attached to items rewarded in plesioth hunts. As for ivory lagi in game it'll feed on carcasses it can find on land or take down slagtoth/aptonoth. Furthermore ivory have a diet of quartz to help grind their food in their gut. This manifests in their scales making them crystaline and hard. As for the desert plesioth well.... underground lakes. Along side that there are other water systems there deep enough to keep them comfy.
After watching this video, I’m definitely subscribing. As others have stated, I also love the biological aspect of Monster Hunter, and this video was a really enjoyable, speculative essay that dove deeper into their possible evolution and ecology! Your occasional dry jokes really helped break up the otherwise long periods of dry scientific jargon, as well. Fantastic video, and I’m looking forward to exploring more of your channel!
10:22 You needn't worry about scaling using the Rathalos to some uncertainty with posture; MH Size charts are usually orthographic, and the squares in the background are 1 meter each (the larger squares being 5 meters). Palicos are always 1 meter tall and hunters are always 1.75m tall. In this case it should be noted that neither individual is as large as the numbers you have below them; the Lagiacrus show in the size comparison video is 26.49m in full length and its posture prevents it from stretching more than 25m at any given point. the Plesioth showcased should be 26.25m, with its natural posture displaying full length generally. But yes, they're very similar in size, and Plesioth is actually a bit larger. By body volume at the average lengths I listed above here, Lagiacrus has a body volume of 67.5m^3, and Plesioth ~74m^3. Given their lifestyles, both should be neutrally buoyant and not far from that weight in tonnes. Some of that extra weight is from Plesioth's wings and large fins, which may not be as functional in underwater combat as Lagiacrus's more centralized body mass. I do very much think that Lagiacrus has a very extreme physical advantage, despite their sizes, however, in that it has more dangerous jaws, long claws, a hard carapace, and of course electrical shocks usable at close range. Plesioth's water jet should not be underestimated, but I get the impression it's not as usable at close quarters, and should not logically be as effective underwater. I also just can't help but remember the unbelievable physical strength Lagiacrus demonstrated in one of the cutscenes in Tri, where it demolished a large rock pillar, seemingly for no other reason than it was annoyed.
I wouldn't count plesioth out so quickly. The fins are very sharp and contain a potent tranquiliser that would at least reduce the coordination of anything that grappled with it if not rendering it unconscious. Despite it's greater mass, Plesioth can attain sufficient speed to launch itself out the water completely and with little run up - something we see lagiacrus can't do. The power generated from its tail and its ability to do so in such a short space is very impressive, and combined with plesioth's powerful jaws would make for an immense strike. On top of this as the better swimmer and presumably able to breathe underwater, Plesioth would have the advantage of being able to outlast lagiacrus underwater too. I think it'd be much closer than many think!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel This seems to boil down to the shark vs croc debate at its core. A fast, lightly armored, predatory fish(monster) vs a slow, heavily armored, crocodilian(monster). And unfortunately for Plesioth, we have recorded evidence of saltwater crocodiles heading out to sea and catching and eating sharks. As well as local eyewitness testimonies from varies places where both creatures overlap that crocodiles routinely rid environments of sharks. They are completely unconcerned with bull sharks as the crocodiles take precedence. And we don't have any evidence of sharks predating on crocodilians that I am aware of. So at least in the IRL perspective of this battle, it seems Lagi takes this. Also, don't mistake greater volume for being heavier. You'd be hard pressed to say Plesioth weighs more than Lagiacrus because its wings and fins are certainly not as dense as Lagiacrus's body and armor. And this discrepancy may be why Plesioth is able to attain such high speeds in the water, at least compared to Lagiacrus. A more streamlined anatomy and less overall weight.
Lagiarcus body shape is meant for shallow swimming and quick-transition from water to land and vice-versa. Plesioth with its fins and streamlined torso are meant for pelagic type of lifestyle. You could also see that their jaw/mouth type are adapted to the prey available to the environment. Lagiacus has large alligator-like jaws which can probably crush mollusk shells or bones of a land animal. Plesioth on the other hand has shark like jaws that is more adapted in biting and swallowing the softer tissues of fish.
In defense of the "They descended from fish" thing, I don't know any monster hunter lore that states the same can't be said for all life on the planet. I don't think there's a creation god elder that dropped mammals and birds and reptiles and fish all at once, they all had to evolve from at least ONE common ancestor. It makes some sense that their world would kickstart life on land in a way similar to ours, and piscine wyverns just ended up being insanely advanced mudfish that have gills but also lungs.
With the hole war between the ancients and elders. And the fact that some elders seem to have almost Godly powers like fatalis, I wouldn’t be surprised if we have to fight some kind of creation elder dragon at some point.
Remember that it's mentioned that the Gobuls that are in the rivers are young ones. The older ones are supposedly much larger and dwell in the ocean. Sadly not much more is mentioned about the older ones.
i whole heartedly agree that plesioths fight in water is so much better and actually a lot of fun. im a big fan of gobul as well so i do hope water comes back.
Abyssal Lagi is a deep diving Lagiacrus with a purely submerged lifestyle, which probably means its pigment is linked to its activities Ivory Lagiacrus is a mostly terrestrial Lagiacrus with a leucistic morph to its body. But shouldn't it be the other way around? Since abyssal creatures don't need to worry about pigmentation in the depths and land creatures can be a lot of different pigmentations?
I also want to see water combat come back. It was a great mix up from land-based combat, and allows aquatic monsters shines more due to being able to fight in their intended environment. I think they could do it justice with how smooth movement mechanics have been in World and Rise.
A few Things to consider are, Ivory can just snipe Pray from afare due to his Lightning. Plesioth is partly based on a Flying Fish, and his Bite infuses a tranquilizing Substance, usefull for Protection, and Hunting. Lagiacrus might be inspired by a Plesiosaur, not just an electric Eel, and Crocodilian. Abyssal completly stops glowing after its Dead, implying, its Electricity is what made him glow. Lagis Electric Powers might prevent him from carrying its Kids on its Back.
At somepoint, although elders will take a lot of thought. Even if their abilities can be rationalised, they often lack real world analogues. I do plan to get to them someday though...
I think I saw something on a tweet from Banneddino saying the reason in game how Plesioth are in the desert is because of a river connecting the Dunes (Old Desert in the first and second generation.) and the Old Jungle.
Could certainly be possible with the second gen desert as that seems to have a canyon river as well as the underground aquifers, but the first gen desert's water seems to be fed purely by underground sources prior to it's revamp in 4th gen at least.
Really late to this channel but this is such coolthings. My favorite piscine wyvern is Jyratodus, followed by Cepha..crap drawing. a blank the desert swimming one. As far as Water monsters my favorite water monster overall Is Gobul
One thing I'd question about Plesioth is, is it possible or practical that it might use its predominantly aquatic lifestyle to achieve larger sizes than a fully terrestrial predator, as it might not have as much difficulty supporting its weight when immersed in water? I've no idea if this translates to lower generalized energy expenditure, but if it did, then it might make sense as a hunting/survival strategy-grow big underwater where that's easy, then come-out to overpower terrestrial herbivores with your sheer size (especially since its long legs and moveset show it's hardly a bad sprinter on land, giving it another edge in this style of predation). I'd be interested to know if any/all of this is energetically valid, especially in conjunction with the drowning tactics it's shown to use in its ecology videos.
ok that horrid every roar at once sound makes me want monster hunter to add a monster that attacks as a flying swarm. Not a cloud of small bees or a few birds that attack one at a time but a propper stressful encounter where multiple flying things are zipping past you and attacking you three or four at a time and you never truly kill them all, you just kill enough to make the swarm go away.
Awesome video man! More or less great discussion on ecology on Lagi and Plesioth, hopefully more monsters of this caliber get some more discussions such as Somnacanth, Beotodus, Mizutsune, Almudron, etc. Although I will say from all the tons of speculation & parsimonious analysis on the Lagiacrus species, I’m bewildered not once that Green Plesioth was even mentioned or hunted at this entire video, even though it and Ivory are basically in parallel to “a stronger monster with reskinned colors” for a majority of the earlier subspecies of the series. But I ain’t complaining though, no one talks about it 😂
Thank you! And that's true, green plesioth just fell by the wayside for this video. I struggled to come up with a reasonable explanation for his colouration and ultimately chalked it up to being a rare mutation like a blue lobster, but should have at least mentioned that in the video. As such I'll give it a mention in the debrief for the next video.
@@BirdFungus I mean, we could say the same for a lot of older subspecies in general, specifically from the first two generations. Even though I haven’t played the older gens yet, I still think Pinkian & Azurlos (even in World) are basically just stronger raths in gameplay, same with Black Diablos, Red Khezu, Green Nargacuga, same with even Ivory to an extent when comparing to the madness that is GR Lagi in GU. They are somewhat different in fighting and color, but they all feel the same for the most part IMO.
I wonder if current information on the more truly marine going oceanic crocodile species such as Machimosaurus Rex, Ieldraan Melkshamensis, and Metriorhynchus could help explain Lagiacrus's environment and lifestyle too?
Thinking about that really depresses me. Just saw the comment that the Desert used to be a Ocean. If so then that means there's alot of fossils of undiscovered creatures there that'll never be discovered because of the monsters in the world. Same goes with being a Marine Biologist.
I like your idea of the piscine wyverns being reptiles instead of actual fish with legs. Though, I wouldn't call them reptile in the sense they're more related to group reptilia. I think they're more basal than that. Considering the existence of Lavasioth and Jyuratodus which have such basal characteristics means the piscine wyverns are much more basal group that any other wyverns.
Yeah, I really don't like the idea of them being fish (how the hell is Cephalos and drome alive then?...) but whatever they are they're incredibly basal and may have more in common with amphibians or some weird evolutionary transition than true reptiles.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel to be fair, if you break it down all tetrapods are "fish", in a world of simple ideas cranked to the extremes for alot of the biology it's possible. But it doesn't change the fact that all groups with wyvern in the name and Leviathans are all considered comparatively close. Flying, bird, and brute all being a vague class to compare to Dinosaurs. With flying seeming to split with bird, and the terrestrial birds being comparable to small brutes
@@dilophoraptordouble At somepoint I should probably try and get down my own headcanon of the phylogenetic tree of the wyvern family. Right now I don't think it's a true family so much as an Order like the Carnivora or Ungulata, which are both incredibly diverse.
Fantastic video! I’ve always wondered if lagiacrus’s crystals were derived from thunderstones, and it brings to mind just how many mineable pounds exist in the rivers of the flooded forest, not to mention the deposit in the underwater nest in the deserted island. Perhaps they also swim upriver to replenish minerals required for their bioelectrical generation?
Wasnt it thought that Tanystropheus being a wader isnt that likely, since there's fossils of them interacting with animals that couldnt bring themselves to land.
And Asian Dragons. Amatsu, Almudron, Ibushi and Narwa (and if you want even Shantien from Frontier) are in the Leviathan skeleton because of that. In japanese folklore specifically, Dragons are more depicted as lake and sea dwelling, rather than sky like in China.
I might be one of the few people that love that dumb hip checking fish. I like his colouration and damn I want to watch newer hunters get rocked by those magic hips. I'd honestly love him to come back but with a explanation for the hip check, maybe bring the wings down to push/scoop with them to make it make more sense.
As a Plesioth enthusiast, I'd also like to see an update for him-though I'm hoping to see less hiding in the water, assuming we never get water combat back. Having started with Freedom Unite, Plesioth were really the first truly massive-feeling enemies I fought in the series, so they've stuck with me. While I've found most of the piscines I've fought since them to be rather tedious (Lavasioth especially), I quite enjoyed Beotodus, so I'm hopeful that the Monster Hunter team has started to recognize the major flaws in piscine wyvern fights and will gradually begin to improve them. Assuming they don't just ignore them from here on. It would also be nice to see a bit wider variety in general appearance from them, as well. Other than the head crests of Cephalos/drome and Beotodus, it feels like virtually every piscine is just a smaller, less finny Plesioth.
I’m fine lagiacrus being in a game without water combat, though I do agree he would be better if he was in a game with it. The main problem with lagiacrus having no access to water is that it pretty much invalidates ivory lagiacrus’s existence with him being the land exclusive lagi. I think if they want to bring back lagiacrus without water combat they should just bring back ivory lagiacrus.
Not really related to the theme of the video, but imagine how cool it would be if in MH6 you could occasionally see whales in distance and maybe rare event of one getting predated by Lagiacrus or something else like that, even if the monsters themselves aren't huntable in the game
I really do like Plesioth, if only his fight didn't inspire me with rage. I agree completely that a return to form for Plesioth would be fantastic. Him getting a glow-up in world or rise would be so good
As far as I know (from reading BannedLagiacrus tweets), the Great Desert map is confirmed to have been an ocean long ago that since dried up, and it's implied that a lot of the deserts of monster hunter likely have this origin, which creates the connection of many desert species being uncannily similar to aquatic species (piscine wyverns, nibelsnarf, the great mountain dragons resembling whales, hermitaurs, etc.). So I could see plesioth being relict populations from this time maybe, if they don't also walk. Could be both I guess.
That's pretty interesting to think about re: some piscine wyverns and nibelsnarf especially, and may well make them some of the most ancient lineages of extant monsters in the game. (If we consider the blos wyverns and some other desert monsters don't really have an aquatic lineage and yet have evolved to desert life, that could be inferred said ocean drying happened at least tens of millions of years ago.) Plesioth specifically though I think is more like the desert crocodiles as if they'd been stranded from other populations for millions of years over a few thousand I'd expect to see at least some aspects of speciation.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Drying of oceans in monster hunter might actually not have taken that long. After all we have monsters like Dire Moralis who are literally said to exert so much heat that they literally boil everything around them and are known to dry up massive amounts of water just by existing. You may be wondering how there's even any water left in the monster hunter world then. Well Moralis is a black elder dragon which are EXTREMELY rare monsters. They're also extremely long lived and have never been recorded breeding but even then it's not really something that is implied they do often in general. As well as the fact the world monster hunter takes place in is actually a planet that is A LOT larger then our own earth. It's how there exist creatures like Dalamadur which are massive to say say least with sizes that even in a young individuals like the one we fight in game are actually recorded being even larger then the new modern Godzilla. Are still a species that don't out compete literally all life on the planet. Because that planet is just that massive. The reason they can reach these ridiculous sizes as well is due to the kind of sun the monster hunter planet rotates around a blue star... Which if you know anything about space you know that blue stars can get fucking massive. But they would make a perfect star for a planet predominantly ruled by massive reptiles and lizards.
@@pigsmacker213 that's, actualy awsome to know, just wish it was a bit more explisently stated in game, I'd love a mosnter hunter game that focuses more one the world and the many secrets and hidden lore. seeing that I've played these games since MH4 I feel like I've missed most of this stuff. or it's just so hidden I've not found it.
If plesioth returns, I kind of want them to run with the meme by making a water-manipulating variant that moves water through its hip checks and tail swipes. It would also make it easier to predict.
It would be quite cool if water combat ever returned with a good physics engine that let the monsters manipulate currents to knock the little hunters off kilter.
Plesioth now shoot air currents when they hipcheck. You can see it in Stories 2
@@kakashihatake326 The devs also embraced the memes too, Plesioths big move in Stories is a hipcheck called 'Hyperspace tackle.'
@@Krescentwolf It was originally dubbed Subspace Tackle in Japan. It was replaced by Hyperspace because it's more well known among westerners. The spirit is the same (Plesioth delivering a tail slap beyond physical dimension) but the name no longer reference the Japanese meme.
I absolutely love that green plesioth stories 2 have the attack "Hyperspace Tackle" its a none-elemental spread attack that is the hip check animation
Abyssal Lagiacrus is supposed to be a really rare mutation (or natural life stage) where the Lagiacrus grew to big for land and so lives primarily in the depths. When you think about it there's many "subspecies" in MH that should really be changed to variants. Silverwind Nargacuga and Elderfrost Gammoth are Deviants but they too are just natural life stages for their normal versions. Although other than different specific naming Deviants are just "uber" variants.
About Nakarkos. Ceadeus and Nakarkos exist in a sperm whale and giant squid like relationship with Nakarkos predating on Ceadeus calves and adult Ceadeus predating on Nakarkos.
With Gobul it should be noted that the ones we fight in game are apparently not adults. It's hinted that the adults might look completely different and might be only in the sea.
Yeah, drafting various thoughts for various monsters a lot of subspecies are better explained as being variants (often just old males like my suggestion for abyssal lagi).
I have heard of fan theories that the Gobul could be the larval form of Namielle, that will hunt and eat things throughout its life until eventually maturing into the elder dragon as they travel to the new world as part of a life cycle.
@@kennethsatria6607 That's nothing but a fan theory that's new to me tbh.
There's no material suggesting that Ceadeus preys on Nakarkos; this is a widespread piece of fanon misinformation.
There is an excerpt in a book with a concept sketch of a Nakarkos preying on a "juvenile Ceadeus", with the term "juvenile" as used most likely as reference to its horns being asymmetrical, and the idea that Goldbeard is a mature Ceadeus. The relative sizes of the Nakarkos and the Ceadeus shown in the picture do not suggest it was an undersized Ceadeus at all; the Narkarkos we see in Generations is *LARGER* than the Ceadeus and Goldbeards we see in Tri, and its lair is littered with skeletons far larger than Ceadeus as well. If anything, the Nakarkos in the image was undersized, or the Ceadeus juvenile was oversized. The entirety of the basis for the idea of "adult" Ceadeus preying on Nakarkos is that the Ceadeus was said to be a juvenile, and then someone went "well maybe it reverses with adults"-needless to say, this does not constitute evidence of anything, and I think it's very safe to say does not hold up under any kind of serious analysis.
Nakarkos in Generations and GU is given a threat rating and quest rewards on par with Alatreon and only inferior to Fatalis, as well as arguably the single greatest showcase of destructive power of any monster in any mainline game, it is not something that is subject to predation by Ceadeus, or anything else.
Nakarkos is also very definitely large enough to prey on Abyssal Lagiacrus.
@@Goji-Moji Yeah no. BannedLagiacrus covered it years ago.
0:55 IVE NEVER SEEN HIM SHOW SOO MUCH EMOTION
Sounds like you are calling him the “pissing wyvern” which makes sense haha. Great video; keep it up!
He definitely is the pissing wyvern alright...
Ah the hipcheck, able to hit you not only from across the room but get behind a lances guard even when facing the right way 50% of the time! Also great video as usual
P a i n
And thanks!
This has been exactly the kind of nerdy biology fantasy stuff I love, and Monster Hunter is one of my favorite series. I liked this video, subscribed, and now I am totally going to binge your other content! Great video, I really enjoy it, and it fits my jam perfectly so to say.
Thank you! I appreciate that a lot and am glad to have filled that niche!
Boi you Just made me find The words that I did not Found tô express myself
What he said
Plesioth is something I think would be visually amazing in modern monster hunter games, it just needs a lot of refinement in terms of moves and hitboxes.
But overall he is just fine to me, but I do wish I could chop that tail of, it’s worse than the hipchecks.
That's a good point, I always forget you can't chop piscine tails. But agreed strongly, he has so much potential for a revamp.
personally if they ever bring back stuff like Plesioth and Lagiacrus I'd want to to be accompanied by the glorious return of underwater combat. 3 Ultimate was my first Monster Hunter game and personally I prefered underwater combat to land battles, in fact I found Lagiacrus, Royal Ludroth, and Plesioth to be easier underwater than on land (Gobul was an utter pain no matter where it was). land only Plesioth feels like a mess (and that's not even considering the broken hitboxes) and land only Lagiacrus always felt boring and underwhelming to me. the only issue I had with underwater combat was how murky the flooded forest water was.
seeing as Rise managed to make both Basarios and Kushala Daora fun fights now i'd love to see what they'd do with Plesioth, his colours would look amazing in the flooded forest and I think he'd be a lot more interesting and unique than Jyratodus is.
@@taloscal honestly I feel like Plesioth shouldn't return until underwater combat does. Plesioth underwater was much more fun than land Plesioth.
If they bring him back, i want the hipcheck to be its super move.
I LOVE Monster Hunter Biology, and seeing an entire series dedicated to it makes me drool!
One theory I’ve becomes subscribed to is how bioenergy literally fuels a natural arms race, with bigger and badder predators with crazy abilities(i.e. Glavenus and Lagiacrus) able to outcompete smaller and less ridiculous monsters. This bioenergy war of sorts is the reason that sometimes an ecological glutton like Deviljho and Narkaros are able to evolve at all. It also explains how monsters gain these crazy abilities: bioenergy allows their organs to go crazy with specialization.
Thank you! And plenty more to come! It's an interesting theory, the thing I keep thinking about bioenergy is that it's some weird energy rich mineral with a very low melting point that forms the bulk of various mineral veins in the MH world allowing for such productive ecosystems. The arms race idea I feel is a little flawed in that a lot of more restrained monsters with little in the way of extra abilities like Tigrex and Diablos are able to match more zany ones like Glav and Brachy even without their extreme variants.
@@unnaturalhistorychannelI believe a component that's always missed in arms race discussions is how animals like phorusrhacos and the paraceratherium were outcompeted by smaller, less armored, but ultimately more adaptable animals. That being us (for the most part and this doesn't apply to every species of megafauna in the last 4000 to 50000 years, give or take).
Tigrex very well might just be better adapted to greatly varying climates and terrains that the super specialized wyverns aren't compatible with without a few more million years, but tigrex is ready right now and its not going anywhere. Its almost like the trope that crocs and sharks are so well suited for life that they've barely changed in millions of years.
While not completely true, the crocodillian body plan was popular with unrelated genera of animals and many species of fish are close to being sharks based off looks but are actually unrelated, because that body plan just works.
Overall, there's plenty of indication that other wyverns such as diablos and even the raths are so well suited for life in either the new or old world that they really haven't changed much about themselves except for maybe behavior. Whereas the brute wyverns like anjanath and glavenus are so specialized that you can't just plop them into any ecosystem and expect them to survive. Of course, capcom has chosen to stick just about every monster everywhere so this isn't a completely waterproof argument but hopefully I got my point across.
You are actually quite correct in surmising that ivory and abysal are part of the same species and not actual subspecies, for ivory instead of being Leucistic apparently the reason why they are white is because due to the quartz minerals being found in its shell..... which suggest that lagi supplements it's diet by eating minerals from time to time, but the reason behind this is still unknown, tho my personal theory on this matter is that they start eating those minerals in order to prepare them for their inevitable change into abysal lagi were reinforcing their shells with strong minerals will eventualy help them cope with the massive underwater pressure of deep sea diving, as for abysal we know that there just really old members of their species that grew to enormous sizes so they are now permanently stuck in the ocean, but that begs the question on how abysal members of the species reproduce? Do they switch to giving birth to live young or do they still momentarily go back on land to lay eggs like sea turtles or are they unable to once they reach that age?
I'd probably suggests they still come back onto land, but just don't spend much time there after laying eggs. It's hard to think of an animal that can completely switch its reproductive organs. Abyssal Lagi still need to breathe air and so may come to certain near-shore environments like reefs or lagoons to rest and reproduce without leaving the support of the water.
That implies these animals are still breeding members of the species.
They move to the deep oceans as a response to easier food sources being found there and they are estimated to be potentially triple digits in age that both normal and ivory lagiacrus can be.
That mixed with their insane rarity could easily be said to mean they do not breed, or perhaps only males do.
@@dilophoraptordouble If Lagiacrus are sexually dimorphic like crocs too, it would also mean it's much more likely for a bull to reach abyssal size and age and thus be the only ones that may still breed.
Human females lose the ability to breed when they grow old I don’t see why leviathans can’t be the same
7 months later I realise I said women just stop breathing when they age, not what I meant to say but I guess at some point they would have to
It's interesting that you bring up the Gobul being in the bottoms of freshwater sources. If memory serves me right, the information of that monster is limited due to dissections of captured specimens showing that these large fish monsters are actually prebubecent. With no functional sexual organs, it's speculated that the freshwaters are used like what you had said for sharks. Even the hunters guild are unsure what a full grown adult Gobul would look like, but they assume that they live in the deep oceans Abyssal Legiacrus dives down too
Yeah that's the leading theory from one of the artbooks. Much is still unknown about Gobul, there's the popular fan theory that adults are mega-massive ultra deathking eaters of elders but this is totally unsupported.
There's actually one species of squid which managed to pull off bioluminescent camouflage. They basically use it to look like moonlight reflecting off the ocean's surface. Not saying that's what abyssal Lagi does, but just thought it was an interesting fact to share.
I always imagined plesioth as like cephadrome tier learning he’s lagiactus tier has me shook
I’m excited about some of the bird wyverns ecology in the next video!
I think I heard Yian Kut-Ku, Qurupeco, and Kula-Ya-Ku. But I’m not 100% sure.
Hopefully Yian Garuga gets mentioned because it’s closely related to Yian Kut-Ku.
To give a slight spoiler it was Kula, Gypceros and Qurupeco (good catch with qurupeco especially!). Kut Ku and Garuga will get their own video later on though!
That one picture with the gharial and all the baby gharials on its back is so pretty their skin is almost like teal or turquoise colored
"It's really adorable to imagine a mother lagiacrus covered in babies, like a modern crocodilian."
_Yes._ I will suffer underwater combat to have this in my life.
I found this channel after doing a random steve ecology search and am so happy that I have. Love these videos and am about binge every monster hunter one you have. And having only ever had to fight plesioth once in generations years ago as my first monhun game(though I'm playing through generations ultimate on my switch now and I know he's coming up) I can say there are in fact 12 plesioth fans as I found his fight very challenging but still love the monster.
Plesioth definately got improved with the adittion of underwater combat, and both on land and on water it is a lot of fun to take it down as a gunner, and I'm a blademaster main.
Lagiacrus is just too fascinating and awesome to be left out for too long, I absolutely love how it figths and behaves underwater, Ivory's attacks on land are fenominal (It's a shame that in Generations Ultimate Lagiacrus didn't stick much closer to that to Ivory, there are some great new moves but other weird looking and somewhat questionable decisions made to it, but that could just be me). Hopefully underwater combat returns in an inovative new way, I loed the old version but I can understand why most people hated it.
Actually good water combat would be a very welcome return to the series.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Indeed! Really looking forward to seeing my favorite monster back in it's turf!
6:24
I thought that's exactly what Abyssal Lagi was, especially since Monster Hunter isn't exactly consistent with their terminology (variants, subspecies, etc)
Yeah I feel capcom aren't too sure what subspecies actually means...
@@unnaturalhistorychannel i just explain it in my head as subspecies being a far more casual, almost slang term among hunters rather than a proper phylogenetic or even physiologic classification system
I kept hearing pissing wyvern only realising that you mean piscine lol
Lagi is my heart and soul. Grinded him for years
Fantastic video as always. Kinda made me re think Lagiacrus in a way tho, I always saw him as this great sea serpent that rulls over all but a few in the oceans. I kinda forgot just how competitive the waters in Monster Hunter can be with a large chunk of the inhabitants being able to reach very large sizes and are generally powerful. Like Plesioth for example, I forgot just how massive he is, and who knows a well aimed hyper pressurised water beam from him might have a chance to crack Lagiacrus softer armour.
Speaking of Lagi I wander if they are able to go for long periods of time without food while making a large open water crossing,similar to Saltwater Crocodiles travelling around the Indian Ocean and the seas of south east China,or even that one Nile crocodile that swam from Africa to Florida.
I also wander if Ivory been more land based likes to dabble in predation of land animals like Slugtoth,Aptonoth and bird wyverns.
Thank you! And yeah, there's a lot we don't really know about the oceans of MH too as to what else may be down there.
I'd say Lagi can probably make such crossings, and if not a possible land bridge in the past it could be how individuals make it to the new world occasionally too. Food may also draw them out, like the photos of the saltwater crocs that swam great distances out to sea to feed on a whale carcass.
And yeah I'd say that's quite likely for ivory too. Like real crocs they probably eat whatever comes thy way!
... I think I just found my childhood dream channel
In this episode: Unnatural History Channel continues it's crusade to make the Monster Hunter ice age canon.
I second this notion.
Also The ivory Lagiacrus more than likely would have more developed muscular limbs to a degree due to spending more time on land, but not really noticeable in comparison to the Common Lagiacrus species. Also there are crocodilians that have white colors with reduced pigmentation, hypomelanism which don’t suffering from health problems seen in leucistic and albino forms. There are some impressive saltwater crocodiles in Australia that are hypomelanistic, some having more striking whites and still retains the black marking as a typical specimen of the species. And similarly to the ivory lagiacrus, which retains the same areas in which pigmentation of colors are present in the common standard blue colored more aquatic species.
I admit I wasn't aware saltwater crocodiles underwent hypomelanism, and always thought they were just paler individuals. Interesting to learn though, and as you say a better analogue than purely albino alligators.
Indeed, I was unaware as well, I originally thought these saltwater crocs in Australia were leucistic, but as you mentioned leucisric crocodilians suffer from health problems which I was unaware of. I thought it was only for the albino forms so that was pretty cool to learn. I had to look up articles on these really vibrant white saltwater crocs to see what they actually had going on with there skin.
"And so close to being in World" if Lagiacrus isn't in the Sunbreak DLC i'm legit gonna shit enough bricks to build a house with.
Well I got some news for you then.
Glad it's not in Sunbreak.
i'm adoring this channel. We need more actual zoological takes on MH
Thank you!
Been watching this series since the start but only sharing my thoughts now. I absolutely love what you've been doing. The presentation is simple but effective and while there is a lot of information, it's presented well and there's clearly a lot of research going behind this. I agree with almost every bit of speculation you've put forth and it further cements the creatures of Monster Hunter as being natural animals with realistic behavior akin to animals of our world. This one especially does a great job at comparing these two classic marine monsters.
One thing I recalled from my time playing 3U was that Plesioth appeared to have been downsized in that game, but kept a larger average size in earlier games and GenU (I would need to see the size listings in the different games to confirm this), and part of me always thought this reflected the presence of Lagiacrus having an impact on the maximum size Plesioth could potentially reach, either due to competition or possibly predation. While GenU contradicts this somewhat, GenU was a bit more loose with canon and I suspect they kept the larger size more as a reference to older games than anything else.
Really looking forward to the next episode, keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for your very kind words!
I've always been a bit skeptical of some of the size listings too as they never seemed to match up both with monster appearances in game + across games too.
But interspecific competition can definitely limit max size, even if just through better exploitation of resources.
I also like the name - Peter Jackson's Skull Island will definitely be visited in the future!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel You're quite welcome, yeah the size listings can be a bit wonky, but then again even animals in real life don't often have strict size limitations, it's always a range, which is fun to see in the series.
Was definitely a product of the time, looking forward to seeing you talk on that version of Skull Island as well!
So major props to you sir. I came here for fun MH facts then learned about real life animals. Keep up the great content!
As someone who both was very enthusiastic about Marine Biology when I was younger, and has recently really gotten into the Monster Hunter series, I've gotta say I'm glad I stumbled across your gem of a channel through this video! Perhaps you could take a look at a somewhat similar pairing in Agnaktor (one of my favorites) and Lavasioth? I'm certainly curious as to whether or not there's plausible explanations for their habit of lava-wading; I've read that Agnaktor secretes an inflammable liquid between it's scales, but I'm not so sure how effective that may be
I’m glad you’re enjoying!
Agnaktor I quite like, lavasioth not quite so much. Lava swimming would be hard to explain but I’ll not say never just yet
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with in that regard, and a dive into the two in general- in the meantime, I'll be watching the rest of your content :D
just wanna say, as of late your videos are what let me actually sleep. they're interesting and keep my adhd engaged, and your voice is steady and consistent which helps me focus on 1 consistent sound until I'm out. plus, i very much enjoy the content, so this is a triple win. thank you for making these monster hunter documentary videos, it's truly some of the best content I've listened to in awhile.
Giant lobster are what plesioth like to snack on. That would be a good reason for plesi to dive. Plus lobster shells are usually attached to items rewarded in plesioth hunts. As for ivory lagi in game it'll feed on carcasses it can find on land or take down slagtoth/aptonoth. Furthermore ivory have a diet of quartz to help grind their food in their gut. This manifests in their scales making them crystaline and hard. As for the desert plesioth well.... underground lakes. Along side that there are other water systems there deep enough to keep them comfy.
After watching this video, I’m definitely subscribing. As others have stated, I also love the biological aspect of Monster Hunter, and this video was a really enjoyable, speculative essay that dove deeper into their possible evolution and ecology! Your occasional dry jokes really helped break up the otherwise long periods of dry scientific jargon, as well. Fantastic video, and I’m looking forward to exploring more of your channel!
Thank you so much! Glad to have you!
Walking in the desert *gets killed by a crocodile*
"But crocodilians do have sensitive sensory organs that detect physical sensations."
- Unnatural History Channel, 3:19
You get a black dragon move! YOU get a black dragon move!! EVERYTHING IS A FINAL BLACK DRAGON MOVE!
Love this! Plesioth has always been my favorite since gen1
10:22 You needn't worry about scaling using the Rathalos to some uncertainty with posture; MH Size charts are usually orthographic, and the squares in the background are 1 meter each (the larger squares being 5 meters). Palicos are always 1 meter tall and hunters are always 1.75m tall.
In this case it should be noted that neither individual is as large as the numbers you have below them; the Lagiacrus show in the size comparison video is 26.49m in full length and its posture prevents it from stretching more than 25m at any given point. the Plesioth showcased should be 26.25m, with its natural posture displaying full length generally.
But yes, they're very similar in size, and Plesioth is actually a bit larger. By body volume at the average lengths I listed above here, Lagiacrus has a body volume of 67.5m^3, and Plesioth ~74m^3. Given their lifestyles, both should be neutrally buoyant and not far from that weight in tonnes. Some of that extra weight is from Plesioth's wings and large fins, which may not be as functional in underwater combat as Lagiacrus's more centralized body mass. I do very much think that Lagiacrus has a very extreme physical advantage, despite their sizes, however, in that it has more dangerous jaws, long claws, a hard carapace, and of course electrical shocks usable at close range. Plesioth's water jet should not be underestimated, but I get the impression it's not as usable at close quarters, and should not logically be as effective underwater. I also just can't help but remember the unbelievable physical strength Lagiacrus demonstrated in one of the cutscenes in Tri, where it demolished a large rock pillar, seemingly for no other reason than it was annoyed.
I wouldn't count plesioth out so quickly. The fins are very sharp and contain a potent tranquiliser that would at least reduce the coordination of anything that grappled with it if not rendering it unconscious.
Despite it's greater mass, Plesioth can attain sufficient speed to launch itself out the water completely and with little run up - something we see lagiacrus can't do. The power generated from its tail and its ability to do so in such a short space is very impressive, and combined with plesioth's powerful jaws would make for an immense strike. On top of this as the better swimmer and presumably able to breathe underwater, Plesioth would have the advantage of being able to outlast lagiacrus underwater too. I think it'd be much closer than many think!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel This seems to boil down to the shark vs croc debate at its core. A fast, lightly armored, predatory fish(monster) vs a slow, heavily armored, crocodilian(monster).
And unfortunately for Plesioth, we have recorded evidence of saltwater crocodiles heading out to sea and catching and eating sharks.
As well as local eyewitness testimonies from varies places where both creatures overlap that crocodiles routinely rid environments of sharks. They are completely unconcerned with bull sharks as the crocodiles take precedence.
And we don't have any evidence of sharks predating on crocodilians that I am aware of.
So at least in the IRL perspective of this battle, it seems Lagi takes this.
Also, don't mistake greater volume for being heavier. You'd be hard pressed to say Plesioth weighs more than Lagiacrus because its wings and fins are certainly not as dense as Lagiacrus's body and armor. And this discrepancy may be why Plesioth is able to attain such high speeds in the water, at least compared to Lagiacrus. A more streamlined anatomy and less overall weight.
Lagiarcus body shape is meant for shallow swimming and quick-transition from water to land and vice-versa. Plesioth with its fins and streamlined torso are meant for pelagic type of lifestyle. You could also see that their jaw/mouth type are adapted to the prey available to the environment. Lagiacus has large alligator-like jaws which can probably crush mollusk shells or bones of a land animal. Plesioth on the other hand has shark like jaws that is more adapted in biting and swallowing the softer tissues of fish.
In defense of the "They descended from fish" thing, I don't know any monster hunter lore that states the same can't be said for all life on the planet.
I don't think there's a creation god elder that dropped mammals and birds and reptiles and fish all at once, they all had to evolve from at least ONE common ancestor. It makes some sense that their world would kickstart life on land in a way similar to ours, and piscine wyverns just ended up being insanely advanced mudfish that have gills but also lungs.
With the hole war between the ancients and elders. And the fact that some elders seem to have almost Godly powers like fatalis, I wouldn’t be surprised if we have to fight some kind of creation elder dragon at some point.
Oh hell yeah, I love these kinds of videos! Keep sciencing the monsters!
The monsters will continue to be scienced!
Plesioth Is so tall! It’s always surprising to me
I genuinely watch these videos equally for the monster hunter ecology and for the real life studies.
Remember that it's mentioned that the Gobuls that are in the rivers are young ones. The older ones are supposedly much larger and dwell in the ocean. Sadly not much more is mentioned about the older ones.
gotta love them pissing wyverns
i whole heartedly agree that plesioths fight in water is so much better and actually a lot of fun. im a big fan of gobul as well so i do hope water comes back.
Abyssal Lagi is a deep diving Lagiacrus with a purely submerged lifestyle, which probably means its pigment is linked to its activities
Ivory Lagiacrus is a mostly terrestrial Lagiacrus with a leucistic morph to its body.
But shouldn't it be the other way around? Since abyssal creatures don't need to worry about pigmentation in the depths and land creatures can be a lot of different pigmentations?
For grabbing fish on land white works best and in monster hunter there may be creatures that see better in the dark and so it’s black for camo
When you say piscine wyvern I hear “pissing wyvern”
I love the way you say Piscine Wyvern, it sounds like "Pissing Wyvern" and it kills me every time.
I also want to see water combat come back. It was a great mix up from land-based combat, and allows aquatic monsters shines more due to being able to fight in their intended environment. I think they could do it justice with how smooth movement mechanics have been in World and Rise.
Here after the launch of sunbreak to say that we finally got Seregios back! Here's hoping for Lagiacrus.
A few Things to consider are, Ivory can just snipe Pray from afare due to his Lightning.
Plesioth is partly based on a Flying Fish, and his Bite infuses a tranquilizing Substance, usefull for Protection, and Hunting.
Lagiacrus might be inspired by a Plesiosaur, not just an electric Eel, and Crocodilian.
Abyssal completly stops glowing after its Dead, implying, its Electricity is what made him glow.
Lagis Electric Powers might prevent him from carrying its Kids on its Back.
I’d be excited to see you do Zamtrios.
We gonna see some videos on Elders sometime? Namielle I feel would be a relatively easy Elder to break down
At somepoint, although elders will take a lot of thought. Even if their abilities can be rationalised, they often lack real world analogues. I do plan to get to them someday though...
I think I saw something on a tweet from Banneddino saying the reason in game how Plesioth are in the desert is because of a river connecting the Dunes (Old Desert in the first and second generation.) and the Old Jungle.
Could certainly be possible with the second gen desert as that seems to have a canyon river as well as the underground aquifers, but the first gen desert's water seems to be fed purely by underground sources prior to it's revamp in 4th gen at least.
auto captions was adamant on translating piscine as pissing.
Lagiacrus is my favorite monster!
Can you do the tigrex trio?
He was kind of a big staple in monster as the infamous living pain training
I'll definitely be doing the pseudowyverns at somepoint, just waiting for the Iceborne artbook to come out for extra info first.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel oh yeah capcom is stingy at releasing their art books
These videos are so specifically my taste it’s crazy
Can't wait for underwater combat to come back in gen 7
I like how u mention Seregios aka Steve and he was just revealed a few days ago on coming to Rise's expansion, Sunbreak. lol
Really late to this channel but this is such coolthings.
My favorite piscine wyvern is Jyratodus, followed by Cepha..crap drawing. a blank the desert swimming one.
As far as Water monsters my favorite water monster overall Is Gobul
One thing I'd question about Plesioth is, is it possible or practical that it might use its predominantly aquatic lifestyle to achieve larger sizes than a fully terrestrial predator, as it might not have as much difficulty supporting its weight when immersed in water? I've no idea if this translates to lower generalized energy expenditure, but if it did, then it might make sense as a hunting/survival strategy-grow big underwater where that's easy, then come-out to overpower terrestrial herbivores with your sheer size (especially since its long legs and moveset show it's hardly a bad sprinter on land, giving it another edge in this style of predation). I'd be interested to know if any/all of this is energetically valid, especially in conjunction with the drowning tactics it's shown to use in its ecology videos.
Lagiacrus do (likely) lay eggs not sure about plesioth though
Monster Hunter stories and stories 2 let you find eggs of lagiacrus but not plesioth
"Pissing wyvern".
ok that horrid every roar at once sound makes me want monster hunter to add a monster that attacks as a flying swarm. Not a cloud of small bees or a few birds that attack one at a time but a propper stressful encounter where multiple flying things are zipping past you and attacking you three or four at a time and you never truly kill them all, you just kill enough to make the swarm go away.
Awesome video man! More or less great discussion on ecology on Lagi and Plesioth, hopefully more monsters of this caliber get some more discussions such as Somnacanth, Beotodus, Mizutsune, Almudron, etc. Although I will say from all the tons of speculation & parsimonious analysis on the Lagiacrus species, I’m bewildered not once that Green Plesioth was even mentioned or hunted at this entire video, even though it and Ivory are basically in parallel to “a stronger monster with reskinned colors” for a majority of the earlier subspecies of the series. But I ain’t complaining though, no one talks about it 😂
Ivory’s fight is far different, it’s move set is very land based, Green plesioth has no differences at all
Thank you!
And that's true, green plesioth just fell by the wayside for this video. I struggled to come up with a reasonable explanation for his colouration and ultimately chalked it up to being a rare mutation like a blue lobster, but should have at least mentioned that in the video. As such I'll give it a mention in the debrief for the next video.
@@BirdFungus I mean, we could say the same for a lot of older subspecies in general, specifically from the first two generations. Even though I haven’t played the older gens yet, I still think Pinkian & Azurlos (even in World) are basically just stronger raths in gameplay, same with Black Diablos, Red Khezu, Green Nargacuga, same with even Ivory to an extent when comparing to the madness that is GR Lagi in GU. They are somewhat different in fighting and color, but they all feel the same for the most part IMO.
@@CosmicCaribbean when did I say that wasn’t the case? Black Diablos and Red Khezu aren’t technically even subspecies
I wonder if current information on the more truly marine going oceanic crocodile species such as Machimosaurus Rex, Ieldraan Melkshamensis, and Metriorhynchus could help explain Lagiacrus's environment and lifestyle too?
imagine if, when underwater combat returns, they rework Whitewater Plesioth (from explore) to be able to work underwater 💀
Thinking about that really depresses me.
Just saw the comment that the Desert used to be a Ocean.
If so then that means there's alot of fossils of undiscovered creatures there that'll never be discovered because of the monsters in the world.
Same goes with being a Marine Biologist.
I like your idea of the piscine wyverns being reptiles instead of actual fish with legs. Though, I wouldn't call them reptile in the sense they're more related to group reptilia. I think they're more basal than that. Considering the existence of Lavasioth and Jyuratodus which have such basal characteristics means the piscine wyverns are much more basal group that any other wyverns.
Yeah, I really don't like the idea of them being fish (how the hell is Cephalos and drome alive then?...) but whatever they are they're incredibly basal and may have more in common with amphibians or some weird evolutionary transition than true reptiles.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel to be fair, if you break it down all tetrapods are "fish", in a world of simple ideas cranked to the extremes for alot of the biology it's possible.
But it doesn't change the fact that all groups with wyvern in the name and Leviathans are all considered comparatively close.
Flying, bird, and brute all being a vague class to compare to Dinosaurs.
With flying seeming to split with bird, and the terrestrial birds being comparable to small brutes
@@dilophoraptordouble At somepoint I should probably try and get down my own headcanon of the phylogenetic tree of the wyvern family. Right now I don't think it's a true family so much as an Order like the Carnivora or Ungulata, which are both incredibly diverse.
I always think 'wyvern' it just another word for reptiles in mh world... so...
piscine wyvern : fish reptile
They used the best mushrooms to make their potion, turns out
I just realized how quickly you used to talk in some of these older videos.
i only want laggi back if they add swimming back tbh. which i do want. swimming was super good.
BASED AND SWIMMING PILLED
Fantastic video! I’ve always wondered if lagiacrus’s crystals were derived from thunderstones, and it brings to mind just how many mineable pounds exist in the rivers of the flooded forest, not to mention the deposit in the underwater nest in the deserted island. Perhaps they also swim upriver to replenish minerals required for their bioelectrical generation?
I thought picine wyverns were fish with wyvern like traits. You know, convergent evolution.
I WANT LAGGI BACK IN SUNBREAK, WHY IS CAPCOM IGNORING ME. IT HURTS MY HEART HURTS.
I finally got to the quest, Splash Damage. I actually really liked fighting Plesioth. I also agree he was more fun to fight in the water than on land.
we need a deep sea monster hunter
I was wondering, are you at all a fan of the Carnivores games?
I'm aware of them but haven't played them. I do think a proper next-gen dino shooter could be good though.
I think in lore green plesioth is a plesioth species that is starting to live more out of water hence the green color to hide in the jungle better
I thought they lived in swamps and marshes more?
Same effect of improved camoflauge though
@@sanguineregis5354 well green plesioth rarely fights in water meaning it feels safer on land when threatened impling they live more on land
Wasnt it thought that Tanystropheus being a wader isnt that likely, since there's fossils of them interacting with animals that couldnt bring themselves to land.
I heard that Gobul a youngster and goes into the ocean when he becomes adult. You didn't cover this or is this not true?
I can NOT get over how you keep calling them "pissing wyverns"
The HAHA at 0:57 always gets me lmao
Lagiacrus and the leviathans are based on real life nothasaurs.
And Asian Dragons.
Amatsu, Almudron, Ibushi and Narwa (and if you want even Shantien from Frontier) are in the Leviathan skeleton because of that.
In japanese folklore specifically, Dragons are more depicted as lake and sea dwelling, rather than sky like in China.
I might be one of the few people that love that dumb hip checking fish.
I like his colouration and damn I want to watch newer hunters get rocked by those magic hips.
I'd honestly love him to come back but with a explanation for the hip check, maybe bring the wings down to push/scoop with them to make it make more sense.
If on land there's a dalamadur i want to know how big the sea monsters can get.
King of monster mode. I'm going to shit everywhere if he is not in wilds
13:36 So like Tanystropheus?
Edit: Oh you talked about Tanystropheus.
As a Plesioth enthusiast, I'd also like to see an update for him-though I'm hoping to see less hiding in the water, assuming we never get water combat back. Having started with Freedom Unite, Plesioth were really the first truly massive-feeling enemies I fought in the series, so they've stuck with me. While I've found most of the piscines I've fought since them to be rather tedious (Lavasioth especially), I quite enjoyed Beotodus, so I'm hopeful that the Monster Hunter team has started to recognize the major flaws in piscine wyvern fights and will gradually begin to improve them.
Assuming they don't just ignore them from here on.
It would also be nice to see a bit wider variety in general appearance from them, as well. Other than the head crests of Cephalos/drome and Beotodus, it feels like virtually every piscine is just a smaller, less finny Plesioth.
I’m fine lagiacrus being in a game without water combat, though I do agree he would be better if he was in a game with it. The main problem with lagiacrus having no access to water is that it pretty much invalidates ivory lagiacrus’s existence with him being the land exclusive lagi. I think if they want to bring back lagiacrus without water combat they should just bring back ivory lagiacrus.
If stories 2 is anything to go by, when plesioth returns to the series, its hipcheck hitbox might become a feature.
Not really related to the theme of the video, but imagine how cool it would be if in MH6 you could occasionally see whales in distance and maybe rare event of one getting predated by Lagiacrus or something else like that, even if the monsters themselves aren't huntable in the game
Lesss goooo
When people comment this on your new videos you truly know you've arrived as a content creator.
Space-bending hips
I also think that Abyssal Lagiacrus could act like a mosasaur. Considering it's size, build, and appearance, it would make sense.
I really do like Plesioth, if only his fight didn't inspire me with rage. I agree completely that a return to form for Plesioth would be fantastic. Him getting a glow-up in world or rise would be so good
3:51 I'm no expert but uh.. something about that doesn't seem right to me, suffice it to say.