I'm considering adding VEP7 to my workflow now that I have a VM Server and 10G Ethernet. What I'd like to know is how you handle recall on projects that demand custom templates? If you had to make a stylistic adjustment to say your strings, when time to start another project, you'd have to reload everything again on the next project correct? Or am I right to assume that if you make your template and purge everything before hand, starting from your base non modified template won't be a problem? I see some people organize their template to include instruments that won't need any or no modification in VEP and instruments that do need more customization, they leave in the native DAW aka Synths. I'm just trying to understand that frame of mind since generally I'm used to modifying everything, and also trying to understand more of the time saving if essentially I'd still need to load the modified template for each song anyway.
Yep, anything project-specific is handled directly in Cubase. So if the strings are treated differently it's with processing or fx in the Cubase session. The template remains the same, but it is simple and untreated for that very reason. I can even tweak mic positions, if needed, with cc data. And that data is saved in Cubase. But they are also set at the "normal" levels on on/off states as a default.
Perfect. Thanks so much for the help and video! As a little more insight in case anyone is curious, I run a Proxmox based Virtual Machine Server with one VM slated to be dedicated to VEP7 and my VSTs. Since my original comment, I have updated to VEP7, but If you decide to go this route yourself, a couple of things you might need to consider. 1) Dongles...yes, you can pass through USB devices into your VM and yes, you can (from my testing so far) can pass iLok to the VM without a problem. However if you're using an eLicenser (which unfortunately VEP7 uses for the time being), you're going to have a bad time. While eLCC does see it fine and you can add and update your licenses and everything fine, when you try to do a maintenance step or start a program requiring it's use, you'll get an internal app communication error and the load will fail. I suspect that it's because eLicenser does not like virtualized environments at all and needs to be as close as possible to the actual hardware 😩. There are solutions such as USB Network Gate that I have tested and does pass the license properly, but it's also $160 for only 1 USB device. NOT WORTH IT. But then I came across Virtual Here which functions roughly the same way. While I wasn't able to get the Windows to Windows version to work, I did read that people have had better luck using a Linux server instead of the Windows one. This is where I'm at now. I purchased a Raspberry Pi 4 and if all goes well, that little device will function as a network wide USB Server...which I never thought I'd say ever lol. I'm thinking about making a video about this entire project so...we'll see. 2) Resource management. My server is the main reason why I'm attempting this at all. However be mindful of your RAM requirements since if you're running multiple VMs, ZFS storage, etc, that all that (especially ZFS) is sharing RAM and will take away from the maximum availability of your VSTs. Considering I'm on Threadripper though, I do have more than enough room to expand later (up to 256GB, currently at 64 🤷🏾♂️). Sorry for the long comment, but hopefully I'll have an update on this soon. Thanks again for the further insight on such an amazing piece of software 👍🏾
If you Ctrl + Right/Left Arrow, it will get rid of the diagonal arrow cursor and bring it back to normal. At least temporarily. It's not a huge deal but it is quite annoying. Always happens to me with VEP.
Is there a hardware setup video? I have questions like how many servers can be set up to share resources? HOw many clients can be set up to share resources? Is 1gbps the fastest network speed supported by the software, or can it go faster?
Pretty sure the only limitation is your hardware. You could aggregate as many servers as you want. I use 4 computers total. Speed is only limited by hard disk speed and router speed.
@@JasonGravesMusic Soooo Uhhh... I'm back. LMFAO. A year later. I am JUST NOW working on setting up Vienna Ensemble Pro, because while learning as much as I could absorb (only some of which retained) about audio... I've laboriously struggled to begin investing in Ochestral Libraries... which meant researching enough to articulate my interests, needs, terminologies, contexts, deviations, preferences... ...And then FINALLY, a scope of preferential agenda based upon my musical interests, ideals, and what I wanted to discover and explore. And then I finally GUTTED my wallet with a couple of Vienna Symphonic Library Purchases, and a couple of secondary instrument conceptuals (like Physically Modeled instruments from Audio Modeling etc). LOL So, now I am back and trying to figure out VEP pro. Here's a question for you: Is there a reason why VE Pro send my workstation system 2 different VEP Server IP addresses when I load up VE Pro as a Virtual Instrument?
Thanks again for a very informative walkthrough I have a few questions as i try to incorporate this into my workflow 1. What do you do with string ensembles routing? do you route them to a short and long mixbus, since you have all the others broken down into high long, high short, etc? 2. How is your reverb routing out of vepro? Different libraries obviously need different reverb levels to "gel" together. Do you apply this in vepro per library? it would be great if you could showcase this in a dedicated tutorial Thanks again Cheers
1. Used to have str ens...never used them! But when I had them I duplicated them and split between high and low, short and long. 2. My verb is all hosted in Cubase so I can have control over it from project to project. Only things in VEPro are the non-changable orch sounds! :)
Hi Jason, first thanks a lot for all the precious information you're generously sharing. I saw in several kontakt instances that you setup your own patch for the short articulations. For example, in the Spitfire Chamber Strings violin instances there is an instrument called "JGM violins -Shorts". Did you group all the short articulations together in 1 track and use the expression maps to switch from one to another?
No expression maps. Individual Kontakt/midi tracks for each articulation. So all shorts go to a specific bus from VEPro to Cubase split (vln/vlas on one and vcl/cb on the other).
Pretty sure it's just a slightly tweaked version of the init patch. I may have chosen a Cinematic preset and tweaked - needed a verb that added more low mids a la Bricasti because my brass is so dry.
Hi Jason, first of all thank you for your great tutorials! May i ask, where do you do the "offset" adjustments for the individual instruments? I don`t see it in your Cubase Template. Thanks
Very little offset...will do it in MIDI if really needed (slow legato, etc). A few tracks have offset in their MIDI Inspector to tighten things up but not many.
Jason, another killer video, thanks for sharing! Quick question, now that you have general outputs for every group of instruments, say ALL horns shorts/longs go to bus 1/2, ALL trumpets shorts/longs go to bus 3/4, etc instead of individual outputs for each library, say OT horns shorts/longs go to bus 1 and 2, OT trumpets shorts/longs go to bus 3/4, Spitfire horns shorts/longs go to bus 5/6, Spitfire trumpets shorts/longs go to bus 7/8, etc how do you deal with spatialization and having different libraries to sound like they are in the same room? Your tracks sound so clean and balanced, I always thought you micromanaged the virtual stage aspect of the mix...
That's usually a simple matter of balancing microphones within each library (at the Kontakt level). I usually prefer more dry mics (especially with Spitfire) and have the 224 Lexicon in Cubase as a general tail for everything, but one instance on every bus. Sometimes I add a bit of Pro-R in VEPro for really dry sources, like my personal samples and the Hollywood Orch percussion.
Currently I have everything set to load/unload in VEPro via midi cc from Cubase. So everything is deactivted until I send the command to activate. And all the samples are purged, so they load as I play them. This and much more is detailed in a coming-soon video next month! :)
While watching this video, I'm feeling home! I hope you don't mind, but l literally have stolen your VEP/Cubase workflow from previous videos !! LoL :) Thank you for share this!
Of course I don't mind...that's exactly why I make these videos! And you can (literally) download all the files from Patreon if needed. So glad you're enjoying. :)
2:09 🍀 7:50 Good, never leave a bunny unscratched! Interesting to see the changes from last time. It feels really good to clean up and remove stuff you never use. It makes you feel like a better person! :D P.S. I never heard that turkey gobble at the end there, so I am not sure if this video has stopped playing or not!!
Haha yes so many music timing coincidences in this one, considering I just dumped music tracks on the timeline and let them play. Seemed like a good transition at the end with the music. :)
When everything is purged and you first open up a finished cue, do you have issues with loading everything? I always need to play through the cue a number of times so that everything loads in properly and notes aren't constantly dropping out.
Yeap that's expected with dense cues. Even if you are streaming from NVME you will hit your motherboard bus limit if you have a ton of tracks playing. Give it a pass or two and you're good. Now if you are having issues streaming a few tracks, then something is wrong.
Personally I've never experienced that, aside from all the drums doing a short 16th note delay-then-hiccup on the very first note of the first project of the day. Mind you, it has to be a pretty intense action cue - usually 160+ bpm with 15-20 drum channels doing 16th notes at the top. Prob happened a few times last year.
Windozz? No thanks. Mac to the end for me. I use Cubase enable / disable tracks (and I have hundreds of disabled tracks). No more VEP for me, no more confusions. Just track per track (with effects or routing / groups I need) sound as needed.
Scott Glasgow Music Hey Scott, what Mac are you running these days? I also like the idea of keeping everything on one machine, but my late 2009 Mac is still struggling haha (that hardware upgrade guy you recommended (name escapes me now) definitely helped me get a few more years out of her though)!
Blanton! and yeah, I am still on my 2012 Mac Tower with everything speed maximized (SSD Raid-0 PCIe cards) and 128GB ram which I rare push too far. I guess on some sessions I get too many tracks going and I get funny behavior but also I restart the same session and it works so voodoo appears occasionally. I not gonna get a trashcan so I have to wait to see what the new MacPro is hopefully this year.
Haha well I was Mac die hard for 20 years but their post-Jobs shift left me no choice but to abandon ship. 12k+ on Mac Pro plus all needed accessories and it couldn't hold a candle to a single 2k PC. Even tried using it as a drum slave and it would choke after three notes, and that was on he highest buffer setting. And don't get me started about iTunes and Pages and App Store and iOS...let's just say I'm SO much happier on a PC with Google Docs and an Android phone. Unfortunately Apple isn't what it used to be, at least for me. Even replaced Apple TV with FireTV and the whole family likes it so much more. #applerantover
I'm considering adding VEP7 to my workflow now that I have a VM Server and 10G Ethernet.
What I'd like to know is how you handle recall on projects that demand custom templates? If you had to make a stylistic adjustment to say your strings, when time to start another project, you'd have to reload everything again on the next project correct? Or am I right to assume that if you make your template and purge everything before hand, starting from your base non modified template won't be a problem?
I see some people organize their template to include instruments that won't need any or no modification in VEP and instruments that do need more customization, they leave in the native DAW aka Synths.
I'm just trying to understand that frame of mind since generally I'm used to modifying everything, and also trying to understand more of the time saving if essentially I'd still need to load the modified template for each song anyway.
Yep, anything project-specific is handled directly in Cubase. So if the strings are treated differently it's with processing or fx in the Cubase session. The template remains the same, but it is simple and untreated for that very reason. I can even tweak mic positions, if needed, with cc data. And that data is saved in Cubase. But they are also set at the "normal" levels on on/off states as a default.
Perfect. Thanks so much for the help and video!
As a little more insight in case anyone is curious, I run a Proxmox based Virtual Machine Server with one VM slated to be dedicated to VEP7 and my VSTs.
Since my original comment, I have updated to VEP7, but If you decide to go this route yourself, a couple of things you might need to consider.
1) Dongles...yes, you can pass through USB devices into your VM and yes, you can (from my testing so far) can pass iLok to the VM without a problem. However if you're using an eLicenser (which unfortunately VEP7 uses for the time being), you're going to have a bad time. While eLCC does see it fine and you can add and update your licenses and everything fine, when you try to do a maintenance step or start a program requiring it's use, you'll get an internal app communication error and the load will fail. I suspect that it's because eLicenser does not like virtualized environments at all and needs to be as close as possible to the actual hardware 😩.
There are solutions such as USB Network Gate that I have tested and does pass the license properly, but it's also $160 for only 1 USB device. NOT WORTH IT. But then I came across Virtual Here which functions roughly the same way. While I wasn't able to get the Windows to Windows version to work, I did read that people have had better luck using a Linux server instead of the Windows one. This is where I'm at now. I purchased a Raspberry Pi 4 and if all goes well, that little device will function as a network wide USB Server...which I never thought I'd say ever lol.
I'm thinking about making a video about this entire project so...we'll see.
2) Resource management. My server is the main reason why I'm attempting this at all. However be mindful of your RAM requirements since if you're running multiple VMs, ZFS storage, etc, that all that (especially ZFS) is sharing RAM and will take away from the maximum availability of your VSTs. Considering I'm on Threadripper though, I do have more than enough room to expand later (up to 256GB, currently at 64 🤷🏾♂️).
Sorry for the long comment, but hopefully I'll have an update on this soon. Thanks again for the further insight on such an amazing piece of software 👍🏾
If you Ctrl + Right/Left Arrow, it will get rid of the diagonal arrow cursor and bring it back to normal. At least temporarily. It's not a huge deal but it is quite annoying. Always happens to me with VEP.
Is there a hardware setup video? I have questions like how many servers can be set up to share resources? HOw many clients can be set up to share resources? Is 1gbps the fastest network speed supported by the software, or can it go faster?
Pretty sure the only limitation is your hardware. You could aggregate as many servers as you want. I use 4 computers total. Speed is only limited by hard disk speed and router speed.
@@JasonGravesMusic Thank you so very much! Working on my first system (from scratch ever) now.
@@JasonGravesMusic Soooo Uhhh... I'm back. LMFAO. A year later.
I am JUST NOW working on setting up Vienna Ensemble Pro, because while learning as much as I could absorb (only some of which retained) about audio... I've laboriously struggled to begin investing in Ochestral Libraries... which meant researching enough to articulate my interests, needs, terminologies, contexts, deviations, preferences...
...And then FINALLY, a scope of preferential agenda based upon my musical interests, ideals, and what I wanted to discover and explore. And then I finally GUTTED my wallet with a couple of Vienna Symphonic Library Purchases, and a couple of secondary instrument conceptuals (like Physically Modeled instruments from Audio Modeling etc). LOL
So, now I am back and trying to figure out VEP pro.
Here's a question for you: Is there a reason why VE Pro send my workstation system 2 different VEP Server IP addresses when I load up VE Pro as a Virtual Instrument?
Thanks again for a very informative walkthrough
I have a few questions as i try to incorporate this into my workflow
1. What do you do with string ensembles routing? do you route them to a short and long mixbus, since you have all the others broken down into high long, high short, etc?
2. How is your reverb routing out of vepro? Different libraries obviously need different reverb levels to "gel" together. Do you apply this in vepro per library? it would be great if you could showcase this in a dedicated tutorial
Thanks again
Cheers
1. Used to have str ens...never used them! But when I had them I duplicated them and split between high and low, short and long.
2. My verb is all hosted in Cubase so I can have control over it from project to project. Only things in VEPro are the non-changable orch sounds! :)
Just went to the Reptile show in Atlanta! Saw an orange iguana kinda like your pics. Is that called a "Crimson Iguana"?
Haha nice! His name is Eddie and he's a standard Bearded Dragon. But you were very close! :)
Hi Jason, first thanks a lot for all the precious information you're generously sharing. I saw in several kontakt instances that you setup your own patch for the short articulations. For example, in the Spitfire Chamber Strings violin instances there is an instrument called "JGM violins -Shorts". Did you group all the short articulations together in 1 track and use the expression maps to switch from one to another?
No expression maps. Individual Kontakt/midi tracks for each articulation. So all shorts go to a specific bus from VEPro to Cubase split (vln/vlas on one and vcl/cb on the other).
I’ve been digging the fab filter reverb too. I’m also curious about your reverb settings for that. What algorithm are you using for your brass?
Pretty sure it's just a slightly tweaked version of the init patch. I may have chosen a Cinematic preset and tweaked - needed a verb that added more low mids a la Bricasti because my brass is so dry.
Hi Jason, first of all thank you for your great tutorials! May i ask, where do you do the "offset" adjustments for the individual instruments? I don`t see it in your Cubase Template. Thanks
Very little offset...will do it in MIDI if really needed (slow legato, etc). A few tracks have offset in their MIDI Inspector to tighten things up but not many.
Jason, another killer video, thanks for sharing! Quick question, now that you have general outputs for every group of instruments, say ALL horns shorts/longs go to bus 1/2, ALL trumpets shorts/longs go to bus 3/4, etc instead of individual outputs for each library, say OT horns shorts/longs go to bus 1 and 2, OT trumpets shorts/longs go to bus 3/4, Spitfire horns shorts/longs go to bus 5/6, Spitfire trumpets shorts/longs go to bus 7/8, etc how do you deal with spatialization and having different libraries to sound like they are in the same room? Your tracks sound so clean and balanced, I always thought you micromanaged the virtual stage aspect of the mix...
That's usually a simple matter of balancing microphones within each library (at the Kontakt level). I usually prefer more dry mics (especially with Spitfire) and have the 224 Lexicon in Cubase as a general tail for everything, but one instance on every bus. Sometimes I add a bit of Pro-R in VEPro for really dry sources, like my personal samples and the Hollywood Orch percussion.
so you have to purge one after one all kontakt instance?
Currently I have everything set to load/unload in VEPro via midi cc from Cubase. So everything is deactivted until I send the command to activate. And all the samples are purged, so they load as I play them. This and much more is detailed in a coming-soon video next month! :)
@@JasonGravesMusic ok my question was about purge after use it, not activate
While watching this video, I'm feeling home! I hope you don't mind, but l literally have stolen your VEP/Cubase workflow from previous videos !! LoL :) Thank you for share this!
Of course I don't mind...that's exactly why I make these videos! And you can (literally) download all the files from Patreon if needed. So glad you're enjoying. :)
2:09 🍀
7:50 Good, never leave a bunny unscratched!
Interesting to see the changes from last time.
It feels really good to clean up and remove stuff you never use.
It makes you feel like a better person! :D
P.S. I never heard that turkey gobble at the end there, so I am not sure if this video has stopped playing or not!!
Haha yes so many music timing coincidences in this one, considering I just dumped music tracks on the timeline and let them play. Seemed like a good transition at the end with the music. :)
Is that a custom reverb setting for PRO-R for your brass/adventure brass, or is that a preset?
See above comment about Pro-R. I think I used th same preset as I did for my brass given that the MS brass is also very dry.
When everything is purged and you first open up a finished cue, do you have issues with loading everything? I always need to play through the cue a number of times so that everything loads in properly and notes aren't constantly dropping out.
Yeap that's expected with dense cues. Even if you are streaming from NVME you will hit your motherboard bus limit if you have a ton of tracks playing. Give it a pass or two and you're good. Now if you are having issues streaming a few tracks, then something is wrong.
Personally I've never experienced that, aside from all the drums doing a short 16th note delay-then-hiccup on the very first note of the first project of the day. Mind you, it has to be a pretty intense action cue - usually 160+ bpm with 15-20 drum channels doing 16th notes at the top. Prob happened a few times last year.
Windozz? No thanks. Mac to the end for me. I use Cubase enable / disable tracks (and I have hundreds of disabled tracks). No more VEP for me, no more confusions. Just track per track (with effects or routing / groups I need) sound as needed.
Scott Glasgow Music Hey Scott, what Mac are you running these days? I also like the idea of keeping everything on one machine, but my late 2009 Mac is still struggling haha (that hardware upgrade guy you recommended (name escapes me now) definitely helped me get a few more years out of her though)!
Blanton! and yeah, I am still on my 2012 Mac Tower with everything speed maximized (SSD Raid-0 PCIe cards) and 128GB ram which I rare push too far. I guess on some sessions I get too many tracks going and I get funny behavior but also I restart the same session and it works so voodoo appears occasionally. I not gonna get a trashcan so I have to wait to see what the new MacPro is hopefully this year.
Scott Glasgow Music I’m maxed out at 64g of ram. I’m also not that into the trash can so I’ll be waiting to see what Apple unveils as well.
Haha well I was Mac die hard for 20 years but their post-Jobs shift left me no choice but to abandon ship. 12k+ on Mac Pro plus all needed accessories and it couldn't hold a candle to a single 2k PC. Even tried using it as a drum slave and it would choke after three notes, and that was on he highest buffer setting. And don't get me started about iTunes and Pages and App Store and iOS...let's just say I'm SO much happier on a PC with Google Docs and an Android phone. Unfortunately Apple isn't what it used to be, at least for me. Even replaced Apple TV with FireTV and the whole family likes it so much more. #applerantover
But I'm glad you're still happy and loving Apple :)